Peter explains Pantheon’s effort at launching music-oriented podcasts, netting maybe 10 listeners on day. He and his other partners were not inclined to quit their day jobs. But then when Spotify entered podcasting, suddenly everyone searching for artists was discovering their content alongside the music.

And Pantheon went on to becoming one of the world’s biggest music podcast networks with 150 shows featuring top-tier bands like Metallica. 

Peter’s now pioneering interactive podcasting with Spooler, a platform created by former Apple Podcasts and Megaphone executives. This isn’t just another tech upgrade; it’s completely reimagining what audio content can be…and do.

But thanks to a combo of  new tech enablements from large language models anticipating conclusions to voice recognition and more, the team has raised the bar on what’s possible. Try out the beta version of what the team has dubbed a “Podcast Puzzle” and try a brain game! 

They’re enabling everything from choose-your-own-adventure stories that adapt to your location in real-time, to walks through decades of San Francisco with The Grateful Dead, and even talks with Benjamin Franklin using his complete writings. As I proudly punned to Peter, it’s “electrifying!”

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mossappeal

“I’m a guy that’s had no focus for 30 years,” Jim told me with characteristic humility. “I am a transport category pilot. I’m a professional glass artist with industrial designs in MoMA and the Smithsonian. I’m a computer scientist. I was on the Federal Reserve and used to vote on interest rates. That was fun. I built the hardware for Square, which we now call Block. I’ve started a bunch of other companies…Ugh. Look, basically, what I do is I build tools.”

His “lack of focus” has actually been his superpower, creating a truly unique lens on innovation, branding, and problem-solving that most specialists simply can’t achieve.

Our conversation revealed how Jim transforms everyday frustrations into industry-changing innovations. The Square story began with something as mundane as being unable to accept American Express at his glass studio. That simple pain point sparked a billion-dollar disruption that fundamentally changed mobile payments forever. 

Jim shared his methodology for spotting opportunities hiding in plain sight and building products that resonate deeply with audiences. More importantly, he explained how he predicts business disasters before they happen – and his track record is impressive! Hint: his accurate predictions about Southwest Airlines and other major corporate meltdowns, made it into his book “The Innovation Stack” years before its current challenges. Then he shares how and why brand associations can make or break a company (hello, Bud Light disaster. Listen for how that motivated his current project, PwrScore.ai.)

What struck me most about Jim was his fearless approach to high-risk, high-impact projects. “I work on projects that are right now, sort of long shots because I’m in a position where I can take a long shot,” he explained. “I’ve made way, way more money than I ever expected. My wife and I have taken the giving pledge, so we’re gonna give all the money away, but in the meantime, I can take crazy risks.”

That’s not just talk – Jim and his wife have literally committed to giving away their entire fortune for the betterment of the world. It’s a level of commitment to pro-social behavior that’s both inspiring and rare in today’s business landscape.

Jim pulled back the curtain on his current ventures, and they’re both fascinating for completely different reasons.

First is PwrScore, a that tool that measures and assesses brand resonance and compatibility using AI to minimize research bias and enhance brand capabilities through better data. The kicker? He’s giving it away for free. Yes, really. This isn’t some limited trial – it’s a genuinely useful tool that most companies would charge thousands for, and Jim is just handing it out because he believes it can help businesses make better decisions.

The second project might sound unusual, but it could change the world: plastic-free diapers.

“Diapers last for a thousand years and they become these horrible microplastics that are bad for the world, and I just thought it could be possible to do it without plastic. So I’ve been working on it for five years with a team. We’re this close to a breakthrough…”

Think about it – billions of diapers end up in landfills every year, taking centuries to decompose and creating environmental havoc. If Jim cracks this code, the sustainability impact could be massive. (Hint #2: Catch my previous episode with the founder of Sustainable Brands for more.)

What makes Jim truly special isn’t just his business acumen – it’s his genuine curiosity about everything. He flies “small, crappy airplanes” for fun, creates glass art displayed in world-renowned museums, and casually mentions voting on Federal Reserve interest rates like it’s a weekend hobby.

This broad range of experiences gives him perspectives that pure business specialists simply can’t match. When he talks about innovation, he’s not just drawing from MBA case studies – he’s pulling from art, aviation, monetary policy, and manufacturing.

Whether you’re in media, marketing, or building the next big thing, Jim’s approach to problem-solving offers a masterclass in thinking differently. He doesn’t just spot trends – he creates them by identifying problems everyone else has accepted as unsolvable.

His insights on brand compatibility, disaster prediction, and sustainable innovation are particularly relevant right now. Plus, his commitment to giving away his wealth while still actively building and creating is a refreshing take on success and legacy.

This episode is packed with inspiring stories, clever insights, and tactical wisdom that will help you rethink what’s possible in your own work. Jim McKelvey proves that true innovation comes from embracing diverse interests, taking calculated risks, and always asking “what if we could do this better?”

00:00 Jim McKelvey’s Eerily Accurate Business Predictions

02:15 Hall of Famer but a Career with No Focus — On Purpose

03:02 The Plastic-Free Diaper Project

03:36 Giving Away his Fortune

05:55 Giving Away his Power (Score).ai Tool

08:05 What Makes for Dangerous Brand Associations

11:17 Writing the Book on Innovation

14:17 Why McKelvey Only Solves Unsolved Problems

15:12 Trading News Consumption for Data Capture

16:30 Humble Pie, Hobbies and Heroes

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mossappeal

Guests include Brittany Bigelow of Bigelow Creative, Dawn-Michelle Lewis of Salutations Media, filmmaker and podcast host Vergie Rodriguez, and James Starace of Focus 360/Creator Square. 

We covered strategies for podcast concept development, the value of niche topics and micro-influencers, technical execution, and effective marketing strategies. The panel also explained their monetization techniques, from securing brand partnerships to leveraging subscriber models.

The whole PopCon event was eye-opening, by the way, with more people lined up to meet the faces behind their favorite voices than the known faces playing TV characters! Ti, who graciously captured the video of the panel, Vergie and I also won Best Podcast awards from the organization!

Next year, we’re looking forward to a day dedicated to #podcasting, but for now, take advantage of the wisdom captured by this panel of pros on Making, Marketing, and Monetizing Podcasts!

01:12 Meet the Panelists

Links/Connections:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mossappeal

Jim Mullen (Mullen Media) and Yossi Kimberg are the real deal – we’re talking Seinfeld, Food Network, Super Bowl halftime shows, and decades of work on Lorne Michaels shows. These guys aren’t just talking theory; they’re actually using these tools in production right now.

Yossi’s journey into AI started by making masterful still images with Leonardo, as in Leonardo.AI. As he put it:

“The idea that text generates an image was beyond imagination. I was just amazed by it.”

But then he progressed to motion, face-swapping himself into different editing scenarios (find those in this episode, too!), and even bringing children’s artwork to life. But learn what happened next that was “a bridge too far” for one particular client.

Now, while Yossi’s moved on to scripted motion videos all AI-generated, Jim’s been experimenting with ElevenLabs for voiceovers, though he hit a hilarious snag on a project about a lack of libraries:

“I couldn’t get the bot to say ‘desert’. It kept saying, New York City has book desserts.”

Not so funny to me, because once it learns contextual pronunciations, my gigs doing voiceover will dry up like a desert. (Note: I found out just today while producing this episode that I literally lost a job to an AI-generated voice. True story.)

Both producers agree we’re not just approaching a tipping point – we’re already there. Yossi believes that within 2-3 years, even the very role of managing AI might become obsolete. The technology is learning to be funny, dramatic, and emotional without human instruction.

Jim pointed out something that made my stomach drop: if you can create an entire commercial with AI actors and voices (which is already happening), you eliminate hair and makeup artists, grips, gaffers, location scouts – entire production crews become unnecessary. 

As such, we talked about the fear factor. You know how I feel about voiceovers. Though AI helped me immensely in honing these show notes. But it’s not just job displacement we’re facing; it’s questioning our creative thumbprint and what makes us uniquely human in this process. Plus…

We touched on some fascinating legal territory that’s still being sorted out. Yossi mentioned reading legal briefs about using copyrighted images in AI training, and the emerging trend of celebrity estates licensing deceased stars’ likenesses for AI projects – Steve McQueen’s estate is apparently leasing his character for AI-generated content. The whole landscape of intellectual property, name-image-likeness rights, and even the ability to deny you said something (“I didn’t say that, it was AI”) creates a complicated web that we’re all navigating in real time.

But here’s what gives me hope: Yossi shared how his client loved his AI-enhanced children’s artwork until clients pushed back, saying it wasn’t authentic to what the kids actually created. They pulled back some of the AI elements. It reminded us of the vinyl comeback – sometimes we crave imperfection and authenticity. He thinks we’ll find our middle ground once this trend becomes trite.

For anyone starting out, Jim recommends experimenting with the free trials but warns against buying credits with “one-trick ponies” – platforms that only do one gimmicky thing. Yossi suggests testing the same prompt across different platforms since each has unique strengths.

The tools they’re using: ElevenLabs (voice), Runway, Kling, Higgsfield, Leonardo.ai (images), and the premium Veo3 — for dialogue-driven video at $250/month. I was simply wow’d by the basics of NotebookLM that I used in my intro. But I hope you’ll still call ME for doing the real deal as a human.

As we face this rapid evolution, seems many will become “AI wranglers” rather than traditional producers. The question isn’t whether this technology will change everything – it’s how we adapt while maintaining the humanity that makes content actually connect with people.

I have a feeling we’ll need to revisit this conversation in six months because everything will be dramatically different again. 

[01:36] – AI voices fool me twice – shame on me — on client websites

[05:13] – Yossi’s journey from Leonardo still images to motion graphics

[08:34] – Scholastic project: bringing children’s artwork to life

[11:12] – Jim’s Eleven Labs experiments and the “desserts” problem

[13:58] – Discussion of celebrity estate licensing for AI (Steve McQueen example)

[18:57] – Who gets replaced first: voice actors, then editors

[25:01] – Too much of a good thing: Client pushback on AI-enhanced artwork

[28:17] – Tool recommendations and experimentation advice

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mossappeal

Overall, great experiences that showed how valuable experiential marketing can be!

00:32 Fresh Direct Pop-Up

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mossappeal

Peter Jones, VP of Revenue at Premion, explained why local advertising is booming, the importance of data-driven strategies, and how omnichannel measurement is revolutionizing campaign attribution Then, Sheila Marmon, Founder and CEO of Mirror Digital discussed the $6.8 trillion buying power of diverse audiences, digital innovation for inclusive marketing, and why brand are best served by connecting with multicultural consumers.

Take a listen (or, watch/listen via YouTube ) and you’ll understand a couple of powerful market forces reshaping advertising today: the renaissance of local advertising and the still key need for  inclusive audience reach.

With local advertising projected to reach $33 billion this year (growing at 16% year-over-year), Peter shares how Premion — an industry-leading CTV/OTT ad platform with directly-sourced inventory from 125+ premium publishers — helps advertisers make data-driven decisions that prioritize “outcomes over impressions.” Learn also how local and regional advertisers can leverage the same sophisticated targeting and measurement capabilities previously available only to national brands.

Did you know they are “TAG Platinum” certified? That, combined with their company approach to business, means all their inventory is brand safe. Peter also teased a pretty impressive case study of a restaurant chain is measuring direct sales impact from their advertising campaigns right off transactions.  

In the second segment, Sheila introduces us to the company she runs, “Mirror Digital,” which has pioneered connecting brands with diverse audiences across digital platforms for over 13 years. She breaks down the misconception that multicultural audiences are “niche,” (um, 43% of the pop is NOT niche!), and their combined $6.8 trillion in buying power – larger than the GDP of any European or Latin American country — should be pretty enticing to ANY brand advertiser! Oh, and remember, that other little “niche,” WOMEN, drive 80% of household purchasing decisions. It might be why Mirror Digital has worked with major brands like General Motors, Verizon, and Amazon.

(I did a great interview back in 2021 with Cadillac CMO Melissa Grady Dias and we talked a little more about their approach to inclusivity, which is DEFINITELY still important, despite our political climate.) 

[00:00:29] Peter Jones introduces Premion’s focus on local markets and helping regional agencies with scaled buying power

[00:01:19] Why local advertising is having its moment and impressive projections for 2025

[00:03:05] The three key factors advertisers need today: inventory, data, and measurement

[00:09:28] Jones’ mantra of “outcomes over impressions” in advertising strategy

[00:11:07] How a restaurant chain measures direct sales transactions from Premion advertising

[00:14:52] Sheila Marmon on Mirror Digital’s mission of connecting brands with inclusive audiences

[00:15:22] Why diverse audiences aren’t “niche” (and their $6T (yes, a “T”) in  buying power)

Learn about Mirror Digital and Sheila Marmon: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sheila-marmon-0398074/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mossappeal

“Twenty years ago it was not recognized that companies that understood how to innovate for environmental and social benefit were going to be the companies that survived and thrived in the 21st century.”

@SustainableBrands 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mossappeal

The author of “Restoring the Soul of Business” and his latest,  “Rethinking Work,” explains what it really takes to stay relevant in marketing — and business in general. As Rishad says,

First, I found out that we are both quadruple espresso fans, so if you wonder where Rishad gets his energy…. THEN I discovered we both had a thing about MATH that changed our respective trajectories*. But, after comparing our coffee rituals we go full steam into how companies need to evolve old leadership styles —from “bossing” to inspiring. Rishad shares why corporate models are in urgent need of a reset, and how flexibility, curiosity, and a human-centered approach must replace outdated hierarchies. Think “fractional workers” and project-based teams meets AI.

Rishad urges organizations to stop clinging to legacy systems and start designing for the future. But, as this is primarily a show about media, marketing and advertising, (he is, after all, being inducted in the Advertising Hall of Fame) he also explores how storytelling goes hand in hand with tech and remains a marketing essential — not despite the data age, but because of it.

Discover the “5 Cs” of embracing the future in Marketing. Interestingly, as former Chairman of Razorfish, his imprint may have been made on Anthony Yell, who – per Epi 30 – clearly agrees in Collaboration and merging Creativity with tech and storytelling!

Of course, we talk brand purpose — and that theme actually runs through it all, with Rishad explaining how generosity is not just as a personal value, but a business advantage.

He shares how this belief drives the Tobaccowala Foundation’s work in improving access to education and healthcare in India — and why doing good can, and should, be good business.

This episode is a frank but, yes, inspiring look at how to rethink work, reimagine leadership, and build companies that serve people — not just profit.

*(FYI: Hear how math impacted the journey of Cadillac CMO Melissa Grady, too!)

01:03 Rishad Tobaccowala’s Background and Award-Worthy Achievements!

02:57 The Essence of Rishad’s Books – “Restoring the Soul of Business” and “Rethinking Work”  

03:28 Combining Story and Data in Business

06:21 The Continuing Impact of Pandemic WFH Mentality and the Impact of AI on Work Lifestyles

07:11 Rethinking Work Now and Near Term Future Trends

11:02 Strategies for Embracing Change (Yes it “Sucks” But so Does Irrelevance!)

13:04 Building a Future-Ready Workforce

22:02 Personal Development Thru Continuous Learning

23:46 Mentorship and Leadership Advice Through Musical Metaphors (AKA: E.B. has to Sing Again)

25:37 The Crisis in Modern Leadership

26:07 Boss vs. Leader: Key Differences

32:06 Generosity as a Strategy

37:39 The Tobaccowala Foundation’s Mission

39:45 The Future of Marketing and Creativity (Hint: Does Not Fit in the Containers of the Past!) 

46:03 Book Summary and Can’t Miss Resources

Oh, and you might WIN! …Add a “like” and a comment on Apple, Spotify or YouTube for this episode, and I’ll randomly (okay, those who LOVE the show might have an advantage!) will be entered to win a copy of Rishad’s book which I’ll announce on or before 4/30/25. BUT to make SURE you get your own, and to learn more about Rishad, visit:  https://rethinking-work.io/whats-inside-2 

Learn about Rishad/Purchase Rethinking Work: https://rethinking-work.io/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mossappeal

And that is one cute dog: spoiler alert in case you miss the video.

As Chief Client Officer of Health@WPP, former CEO of GCI Health, and former Chief Communications Officer at Organon, Wendy has been a force in transforming how we talk about — and invest in — women’s healthcare. In May 2025 she’s being honored with the Pinnacle Award by MM+M for her leadership and impact.

 In yet another heartfelt, informative, and often funny conversation apropos Women’s History Month, Wendy explains why Health@WPP believes wise innovation, factual and  frequent information around women’s healthcare is an imperative. Those are the pillars driving that progress — and why that’s not just good for society, but great for business.

Wendy makes the case that women’s health should be seen as a business opportunity, not just a cause. From underdiagnosed conditions like menopause symptoms to overlooked opportunities in mobility, pain management, and nutrition, she shares how both pharma companies and mainstream brands can make a real difference — and a real impact.

She points to emerging tech, from CGMs for glucose management to smarter birth control options, and even a unique innovation from Ford Motor Company — a redesigned seatbelt for women post-mastectomy. Innovation, Wendy explains, must be fueled by insights and empathy.

“There are thousands of smaller innovations out there. The business community needs to see them not as one-offs, but as lasting solutions that can revolutionize care.”

Wendy doesn’t shy away from the pitfalls of misinformation in healthcare — especially in a digital age. Or, as I like to say, “Paging Dr. Google!”

Wendy shares how Health@WPP has partnered with platforms like NextDoor to connect neighbors and caregivers around trusted health information — particularly around cancer — and how listening to real people’s concerns is just as critical as broadcasting solutions.

“There’s a lot of information women aren’t aware of… We want to make sure they have what they need to take care of themselves — and each other.”

For Wendy, women’s health is personal — and urgent. She calls on companies in every industry, from QSR to automotive, to look for authentic ways to support women’s well-being. Whether it’s creating an inflammation-free menu, investing in reproductive health, or advocating through empathetic HR policies, the opportunity is real.

And yes, she also talks about the role of men as health allies — something that moved both of us deeply. From helping their wives track mammogram dates to sharing stories about caregiving, Wendy reminds us that men are essential to pushing this movement forward.

“Everybody has a role to play. We can’t afford to sit back. We have to push forward.”

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mossappeal

And if you prefer to watch this podcast:

💡 And if your company wants help developing its own podcast, reach out to me at mossappeal.com.

With remarkable candor, Mack reveals how disruption propelled her from big tech brands like Lucent, Verisign, and British Telecom to the startup world, where she mastered being an “intrapreneur” before launching her own ventures.

While I almost give away what my initials (E.B.) stand for, Mack shares the fun but sobering story behind her own name change—and a realization about “what’s in a name.” It definitely ties in with how it took a name change for this powerful woman, appropriately featured during Women’s History Month, to go to game changer.

 She ultimately created SalientMG in order to offer “the kind of firm I could never find when I was on the inside”—a company staffed entirely with senior practitioners who understand the daily realities of startup marketing.

This same commitment drove yet another one of her startups just last year, but this time in the form of a  community appropriately called “StartUp Marketer,” that democratizes access to marketing expertise with everything from templates to live advisors. 

As a fellow podcaster (host of “The Cred”), Mack generously shares both professional insights and personal stories—from her surprising celebrity encounters (think Jude Law to Dave Grohl!) to how her move from Manhattan to Vermont during the pandemic influenced her perspective on work and life.

Throughout our conversation, Mack emphasizes what she’s learned throughout her career: the importance of staying relevant and adapting to change. Read everything! She also emphasizes that successful marketing isn’t just about tactics—it’s about understanding the people behind every decision and fostering diverse teams to help drive meaningful outcomes. She’s an advocate for underrepresented voices and speaks passionately about her mission to create platforms for women, LGBTQ+, neurodivergent and people of color — evident from her work, for example, with the non-profit, Creative Spirit — and giving all people more visibility.

“I had a real challenge with representation in technology. I felt like there were a lot of people that we weren’t hearing from. But man did they have great ideas and I wanted to build a platform or a way to help these folks get out in market in a meaningful way.”

Whether you’re a startup founder, a marketing professional, or simply someone interested in authentic leadership, Mack’s journey from “accidental” tech marketer to industry game-changer offers invaluable insights about intention, representation, and the courage to create what doesn’t yet exist.

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mossappeal

And, as mentioned, catch my other podcast, “It’s Quite a Living,” too! 

And if you prefer to watch this podcast:

Thanks!!