“There is no British security without Europe,” Keir Starmer told the Munich Security Conference this weekend. Nobody wants a wider war in Europe, but we might get one anyway – and Britain’s military isn’t ready for it yet. So how can we change our armed forces and our wider society to ensure that Putin won’t want to risk a conflict with Britain and our allies?

Ed Arnold of the Royal United Services Institute joins Ros Taylor and Raf Behr to talk about how Russia uses hybrid “grey zone” attacks on democracies which stop just short of open warfare… the sobering truth about NATO Article 5… and why we have to budget for the next threat but one, because “What comes after Putin may be worse.” 

ESCAPE ROUTES

• Raf rewatched Terry Gilliam’s Brazil.

• Ed has been enjoying England in the Six Nations rugby.

• Ros recommends the comedy drama about stand-up comedy, Is This Thing On? , out now in cinemas. 

www.patreon.com/ohgodwhatnow

Presented by Ros Taylor and Rafael Behr. Audio and video production by Chris Jones. Art direction: James Parrett. Theme tune by Cornershop. Produced by Chris Jones. Managing Editor: Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor: Andrew Harrison. OH GOD, WHAT NOW? is a Podmasters production.

www.podmasters.co.uk 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices