Is Taylor Swift too big to fail? Plus, Baby Reindeer and our true crime obsession

Is it possible to have an honest and blunt conversation about peak Taylor Swift and her sprawling, sometimes self-indulgent 31 track double album, The Tortured Poets Department? That's what Osman and Thomas try to do, discussing how the album sounds, the themes Swift covers, the reaction from critics and fans, and what a rare misstep could mean for her future projects.

Plus, they discuss Arj Barker ejecting a woman and her crying baby from a recent comedy show, unpack the massive success of Netflix's Baby Reindeer and talk about the end of Shogun. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.