Jeff Gibbs is the director of Planet of the Humans, a feature-length documentary released in 2019 which generated controversy because of its full-throated criticism of alternative energy, and even led some academics --  including Michael Mann. Leah Stokes, and Mark Jacobson -- to demand that Michael Moore, the executive director of the film, issue an apology. In this episode, Gibbs talks about what has happened since the film was released, why “green energy is delusional energy,” why he believes we are “in denial that we are reaching” the limits of the planet to sustain so many humans, and why he sees climate activist Bill McKibben as the “environmental Jesus.” (Recorded on January 26, 2023)