Jesse Ausubel, director of the Program for the Human Environment at Rockefeller University, is one of America’s top scientists and researchers. In this episode, he and Robert discuss his work on decarbonization, dematerialization, land-sparing, Leonardo da Vinci’s DNA, the Census of Marine Life, the industrialization of the oceans, why the “Tesla is a Soviet car,” and why wind and solar energy “may be renewable, but they are not ‘green.’”