TALKING POLITICS

Jill Lepore on the Destructive Power of Tech


Listen Later

David talks to the American historian Jill Lepore about the damage new technology can do to democracy, from the 1960s to the present. Who first tried to manipulate the minds of the electorate? Where did the money come from? What happened when the same technology was applied to fighting the Vietnam War? Plus we discuss US presidential elections from 1960 to 2020: do the machines really decide who is going to win, and if he does win this time, what might Joe Biden be able to do about it?


Talking Points


The Simulmatics Corporation was one of the first data analytics companies founded in 1959.

  • They were collecting personal data, coming up with mathematical models for human behavior, making predictions, and selling that as a service.
  • They got their big break in the 1960 election. 


Advertising was basically invented to defend corporations against muckraking journalists.

  • It became something else as modern consumer society emerged.
  • Eventually, some of the ad agencies began working for the Republican Party. The Republican Party is the party of big business, so it’s nor surprising that they’ve always had a leg up in political advertising.


Was the Simulmatics Corporation for real?

  • Their insights were not particularly startling.
  • The Simulmatics Corporations were liberals who were trying to convince the Democratic Party to take a stronger position on civil rights by telling them that black voters could make a difference in the election.
  • There’s something kind of creepy about the whole thing: a bunch of mid-century, white, liberal men building a machine to try to understand people of color and women.
  • A tight election is good for huxters. There’s a huge, enabling industry of journalism to oversell this kind of technology.


There’s a big gap between how we understand politics should work in the physical world and the mysteriousness and anarchy of the digital world.

  • Democracies are bad at reforming themselves because the winners are not incentivized to do it. 
  • The monopoly today is the monopoly of the means of doing politics. 
  • The pandemic makes it worse. We are now more wedded to our devices and it is harder to conduct campaigns outside of them.


Mentioned in this Episode:

  • Jill Lepore, If Then: How the Simulmatics Corporation Invented the Future 
  • Jill’s podcast, ‘The Last Archive: Who Killed Truth?’
  • Sue Halpern on the Trump campaign’s mobile app


Further Learning: 

  • Jill in The New Yorker, ‘How the Simulmatics Corporation Invented the Future’
  • Our last episode with Jill on the American Nation
  • Jia Tolentino for the BBC, ‘The Story of a Generation in Seven Scams’
  • Evan Osnos’ profile of Mark Zuckerberg for The New Yorker
  • Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

...more
View all episodesView all episodes
Download on the App Store

TALKING POLITICSBy David Runciman and Catherine Carr

  • 4.7
  • 4.7
  • 4.7
  • 4.7
  • 4.7

4.7

622 ratings


More shows like TALKING POLITICS

View all
The LRB Podcast by The London Review of Books

The LRB Podcast

303 Listeners

In Our Time by BBC Radio 4

In Our Time

5,508 Listeners

Page 94: The Private Eye Podcast by Page 94: The Private Eye Podcast

Page 94: The Private Eye Podcast

382 Listeners

Daily Politics from the New Statesman by The New Statesman

Daily Politics from the New Statesman

150 Listeners

Best of the Spectator by The Spectator

Best of the Spectator

185 Listeners

Coffee House Shots by The Spectator

Coffee House Shots

180 Listeners

The Briefing Room by BBC Radio 4

The Briefing Room

61 Listeners

Oh God, What Now? by Podmasters

Oh God, What Now?

198 Listeners

Rock & Roll Politics with Steve Richards by Steve Richards

Rock & Roll Politics with Steve Richards

58 Listeners

Talking Politics: HISTORY OF IDEAS by Talking Politics

Talking Politics: HISTORY OF IDEAS

480 Listeners

Westminster Insider by POLITICO

Westminster Insider

36 Listeners

The Rest Is Politics by Goalhanger

The Rest Is Politics

3,540 Listeners

The Rest Is Politics: Leading by Goalhanger

The Rest Is Politics: Leading

786 Listeners

Past Present Future by David Runciman

Past Present Future

352 Listeners

The Econoclasts by UnHerd

The Econoclasts

128 Listeners

Not Another One by Steve Richards, Miranda Green, Tim Montgomerie and Iain Martin

Not Another One

29 Listeners