Former Clemson University president Jim Barker joins the podcast to share what he's been up to since leaving the high-pressure world of running a university.

Barker had a fascinating window into Dabo Swinney long before many other people thought the coach had what it took to run a successful football program, let alone a perennially dominant one.

Barker still teaches a course at Clemson called "The Architecture of Leadership," and Swinney's name comes up often in the class' conversations about great leaders.

Barker, who was one of the main architects of NCAA reform years ago, acknowledges that those reforms failed and says the system is broken.

Barker was a key figure in the ACC's courting of Notre Dame before the Irish joined the conference as a part-time member. As the ACC and everyone else grapples with the recent seismic development of Texas and Oklahoma joining the SEC, Barker said he hopes the ACC is thinking boldly and not conventionally.

"I'm amazed that we don't use these moments in time to open up possibilities that are not just baby steps, but huge steps," he said.