Jo JJ Go Mental

Jo and J.J. are on their own this week and have a lot to discuss, including the unfortunate passing of Jo's family dog, takeaways from the recent appearance of Prince Harry on the Dax Shepard podcast, and how to share your vulnerable emotions without coming across as self-indulgent or too long-winded. They also talk about how therapists balance transparency with boundaries, having conversations with people that may not have done the work yet, and why it's important to give yourself the tenderness and space to think especially during a time of extra stress and grief. The episode ends with J.J. promising to meet up with Jo for a tour of a city close to you sometime in the not-too-distant future!

Takeaway:

[2:20] J.J. returns from a visit to Los Angeles, and Jo starts the countdown to her 50th birthday. Only 18 more months to go!

[4:05] Jo and J.J. discuss Prince Harry on a recent episode of Dax Shepard's podcast, Armchair Expert. He was there to open up about the cycle of hurt and pain, but the press picked up more about the drama within the Royal Family instead of the mental health aspect, knowing it would get more clicks.

[6:33] J.J. doesn't worry about being a dick, even when she's being direct. In a world where a lot of people just spew out their emotions online, sometimes it is better to wait for people to ask before sharing and baring all. She and Jo discuss the boundary between spilling your guts and keeping it all inside a professional world. Our society is pretty unbalanced in the world of mental health, but real support doesn't typically come from just a lengthy post on social media or unloading everything to an untrained friend or co-worker. There are healthier options.

[9:20] J.J. talks about bringing her older little dog to sessions, and not knowing how much clients would be invested in seeing her and their disappointment when she passed.

[11:06] When J.J. is feeling in a low mood or tired, she lets her clients know that she is feeling that way, and it has nothing to do with them. This way she is authentic about how she feels, and it sets clear boundaries for the client.

[12:21] In any type of performance setting or a social situation, we can feel pressure to perform or turn it on while we are feeling in a low mood or even grieving. It's hard to muster it up, and it's both brave to mention it and also brave to muster up the courage to know sometimes the show just must go on.

[13:35] Jo had to say goodbye to her sweet family dog, and with it comes a wave of emotions, one after the next. What has been surprising for her has been the strength of the emotion and the awareness and acceptance of it. As she lets herself grieve, J.J. adds that most people don't mind seeing their friend or loved one cry, even though we can fear it will scare others away or turn them off from us being "too much". This is where radical acceptance of reality comes in and learning how to receive someone's help and support provides a gift for both us and them.

[17:18] Most humans have a repelling type of action for what doesn't feel real. There is inauthenticity to vomiting all over social media, and even if it's subconscious, we can feel the difference. We can feel truth, honesty, honest vulnerability.

[18:44] A lot of our mental health and vulnerability is unspoken for now, but hopefully, it will become more spoken and more of the norm in the future. For now, we don't have to put words to know that we can feel truth, honesty, and love.

[22:17] In the show featuring Prince Harry, he may have been doing something from an authentic place, and it's getting twisted. This ties into the need to have vulnerable conversations, but knowing humans can judge others very quickly when they view something as inauthentic. Does his high profile help progress mental health, or not?

[23:12] It's important to not get bogged down by global groupthink. Jo says that if even one person can learn from or relate to her work, it's worth it.

[24:19] Jo has an intense irritation to people who vomit out their feelings in a way that minimizes true mental health discussions, and she has a fear and worry that if those are the voices that are heard and judged, it has an impact on the bigger picture.

[25:40] J.J. commends Jo on her bravery, emotional intelligence, and her ability to manage emotions according to their value.

[27:11] The next time you find yourself irritated with everyone and everything throughout your day, it may be a sign that you need to give yourself extra self-care and tenderness.

Tweetables:

• "Being tender and intimate with life's transitions is a way of modeling for other people how to give themselves a break when they are grieving." - J.J.
• "The emotion itself just wants to pass through your body and tell you something, but we fight it so often." - Jo
• "I just keep my mouth shut a lot more than I used to, which I know must be hard to believe." - J.J.
• "It's so hard to balance passion with a non-attachment to outcome." - J.J.
• "We are not tucked in enough as adults." - J.J.

Connect With Us:

Joanna Denton | Dr. J.J. Kelly

Prince Harry on Armchair Expert

Jo's good friend, HR Manager, and super step-mom Jessica Whytehorn joins the show this week. She talks with us about families from different backgrounds coming together to form a strong and respectful unit. Jessica shares her own story about how she adapted to a family that originally spoke different languages, and worked to create an element of respect and tolerance. Jessica also talks with us about how to know when to let go so the kids can fly the nest. We may be thinking the kids are not ready to be on their own or even just to take a small step towards independence, but very often it comes from the grown up not being ready. There may never be a moment and sometimes it's just a matter of letting go bit by bit for both. How do we know when it's time? Tune in and let's discuss.

Takeaway:

[0:59] Jessica is an HR manager passionate about inspiring others. She has a strong belief that clear and effective communication skills can help manage almost any situation. She is also a mom to a step family of three kids, with a mix of different countries and native languages.

[3:07] Besides admittedly being a wee bit insane, Jessica joined the show because she wanted to say yes, we are all a little crazy, and that is more than okay. We are not perfect, and we can learn from our so-called failures.

[6:02] Jessica has embraced taking risks in her life and left her Jamaica home at 21 to move to Britain and eventually Belgium. Living in different countries has shown her that when you appreciate people's differences, you can embrace them on all levels.

[7:28] It's okay to still be playful as an adult. We often take our lives so seriously that we forget it's fun to have fun, and allowed!

[9:00] Jessica shares a story about watching a swallow make a nest and how it dawned on her that if birds understand that their young must leave at some point, why can't humans get this? As adults, we are scared to let our children go and have them fly the nest.

[11:12] First, we must validate the fear and heartbreak that comes with being a parent.

[17:10] Sometimes as adults we forget that they are still kids. On the one hand, are the parents ready? Jo, J.J., and Jessica share their perspective on when a child actually becomes an adult that can be out on their own. It doesn't have to be one big event such as them moving out, but even just going for a drive the first time, or in Jessica's sons case, learning to hand wash their own jeans.

[24:54] When you teach your children basic skills and a little responsibility, you are also showing them that you trust they can do it. This builds confidence and self esteem.

[27:15] Jessica talks about the way she brought about her step family, and immersed them into a new language. French is spoken at home and the kids are bilingual, so they are used to speaking both English and French at home.

[30:02] J.J. gives her tips for blended families. The one thing everyone agrees on is that the parents need to be a united front. Jessica very much appreciates that her kids refer to themselves as brother and sister rather than step-siblings, even when she and her husband did not insist upon it.

[34:45] It's becoming more common to have a blended family, but yet so many situations are very turbulent. J.J. notes the grace in which Jessica has pulled it off by consistent commitment and understanding.

[35:35] We hear from a new step-mom who writes in with a question. She wants to get involved with her boyfriend's three children, but not sure where to draw the line. The young child recently said she wanted to be a stay at home mom like her own mother, and this step-mom didn't know if she should have offered her other opinions? First, it's best to just be there as a sounding board, and this child may be too young to even need a second opinion on their future career. It's important to never belittle the mom, and know that the child just wants to be heard. Unity in parenting is of utmost importance.

[42:40] When reading books on parenting advice, pay attention to your instinct and gut to see if anything resonates with your values. It's okay to screw up, but you want to make mindful decisions as both an individual and on behalf of your family. Write the values out and involve the kids so they have clarity about the general infrastructure within your family unit.

Connect With Us:

Joanna Denton | Dr. J.J. Kelly

Keeping Up With the Kardashians

This week, Jo and J.J. welcome Sascha Altman DuBrul, Writer, Educator, Coach, Counselor, and Co-Founder of the Icarus Project. Sascha shares how his own experience with mental health and time in a psychiatric hospital led him to realize that the traditional mental health space had a lot of frailties and faults, and brought him to his life's mission to bring like minded people together to start to get the education and training they would need to create lasting change. He talks about his decision to also add in traditional clinical education and why that was beneficial and explains the need for communities to come together to empower each other. He and Jo and J.J. also discuss how social and political context must be talked about to understand mental health.

Takeaway:

[2:38] Sascha is a writer and educator and has facilitated workshops for more than two decades. He is part of a growing movement to provide an alternative mental health infrastructure.

[3:34] To him, mental health is the basis of how we relate to ourselves and others out in the world. Sascha's mission is to help us see our emotional sensitivities as a superpower and less as a burden. He knows firsthand that we can thrive rather than just survive.

[6:02] When Sascha was 18 years old, he had a psychotic break, was locked up in a psychiatric hospital and diagnosed with bipolar disorder. He was just in his late 20's and harbored all these questions about his treatment and the system itself.

[8:19] Sascha knew there was more than just what his doctors were telling him and the information he was getting from the mainstream medical world. This led him to explore why culture and society are so influenced by politics and funding, and how the society we live in is crazy, making people feel insane for questioning the status quo.

[11:40] One of the foundational tenets of Sascha's work is the power of validation and knowing you aren't alone. Many of the anti-stigma campaigns are funded by the pharmaceutical industry, but we need real people stepping up as peers to get real about their challenges to help others feel safe in being vulnerable.

[15:33] Having a sense of identity is so important. When we don't know who we are, we can fall prey more easily to the dominant ideology of society without really thinking for ourselves.

[21:08] Sascha discusses the multiple training modalities he has done including Internal Family Systems, and how it complements his education both from Hunter College School of Social Work and Silverman School of Social Work. Working in the public mental health system in New York City he saw that there was so little talk about actual mental health, and people shied away from talking about their own lived experience. He also saw that helpers get paid very little and working in the system is extremely stressful, thankless, and challenging.

[26:13] The Peer Movement is a radical way to transform the system and train people that part of their job is self-disclosure.

[28:42] Sascha talks with J.J. and Jo about having connections inside the system but maintaining ourselves outside the system through training and education. You can get a clinical degree, but it's important that the people that have had the lived experience are getting heard. Otherwise, there are blind spots in professional treatment that go unaddressed.

[35:18] The current mental health system is too old and needs to be rebuilt. Sascha discusses the global mental health movement and how both from top-down and from the bottom up, there are glaring issues that include Western ways of thinking petrochemical companies and Big Pharma are our only saviors.

[42:55] What really increases mental health? Money and resources, not just doing one type of therapy. We need to redistribute resources to people in the world, so people are able to take care of themselves first on a basic human needs level.

[48:42] It takes a lot of energy to want to hurt or harm oneself, and these are very energetic symptoms. Once redirected in a healthy way, it can possibly be a transition to putting more energy into positive habits and creativity.

Connect With Us:

Joanna Denton | Dr. J.J. Kelly

Sascha

IDHA | Sascha DuBrul | TEDx

Macy Matarazzo is a Relationship Expert for Single Women, and creator and founder of The SuperLOVED System. Macy talks with us about the essential element of accepting yourself in order to find someone that accepts you too, and shares how one post about loving soup on a dating app changed her life forever. We talk with Macy about dissolving the fear and limiting beliefs about finding love as a career-focused woman, how to stop "winging it" when looking for love, and that it's okay to not have everything in life topped off with a big red bow.

Takeaway:

[2:16] Macy is a relationship expert and creator of the SuperLoved system. She put off finding love as she climbed the corporate ladder, thinking she didn't need a man and that it wasn't possible to have both love and a successful career. She found herself in her 40s alone, convinced that she may just be unlovable and that it wasn't in the cards for her.

[3:55] Macy decided to put her preconceived notions away and just be vulnerable on a dating app about who she really was and what she did and did not like. Soon enough, Larry came along the rest is history from just one "you had me at soup" comment.

[4:38] When we share who we really are, we find people that are more truly aligned to our essence, instead of people just around because of who we are pretending to be. Macy was sharing aspects of herself that she thought were unattractive and that would repel men away, but really it was her authenticity that brought in the perfect match.

[8:32] What we consider to be our flaws are most often the things people dig about us and find to be endearing quirks. However, in order to not get kicked off the island of love, society brainwashes us that we need to be a certain way.

[11:20] As human beings, we show different elements of ourselves with others. Our friends may get the "real" us, while we often put on a social mask for the outside world and especially when we are trying to attract a partner or in the beginning stages of dating. J.J. talks about the feeling of playing a role at a former job, where the suit and pantyhose she put on felt inauthentic to her true character. When we don't take a step back and evaluate what we are actually doing, it's easy to get swept away in the real or perceived expectations of others.

[13:21] J.J. spent last year closed off to the idea of a relationship because she thought it wasn't possible to have a relationship that didn't detract from work, but now she is totally open to something new and the possibility that two people could be greater than the sum of their parts. Macy gives an example where two professional singles got together, and their business flourished even more so because they had the energy and support of each other.

[19:15] Every passing moment is a new opportunity to use our imagination to create what we want out of life.

[21:41] We can create new neural pathways and grooves by first observing our patterns and making a conscious choice to change them. A big part of DBT is the one way we usually respond and having the courage to take a different way that produces a new outcome. It can feel hard to go down the new path, but there is also wisdom in realizing it can also be light and easy.

[27:46] To quote the RuPaul Drag Show, "If you don't love yourself, how can you love anyone else?" For Macy, appreciation is a gateway drug for self-love. It is a work in progress, and some days are easier than others to give yourself total acceptance and internal validation.

[33:27] Shame is a signal that we are outside of our values, and it's a discipline to act in ways that are aligned with your core values.

[35:01] We must be ourselves what we are asking for others to be in relationships.

[39:23] Macy helps people be resilient in dating and realize that one rejection doesn't mean they are completely unlovable or doomed for eternal loneliness.

[43:36] We don't need to put a red bow on every situation, it's okay to let go of our imagined expectation and fully see what is happening in reality, even if it's not the way we pictured it.

Connect With Us:

Joanna Denton | Dr. J.J. Kelly

Macy

Website | LinkedIn

Dr. Deb Sandella — Regenerating Images in Memory

Caroline Myss

RuPaul's Drag Race

This week, we are joined by Pauline Carville, TV presenter, theatre director, and highly regarded singing teacher in Belfast. Pauline talks about her commitment and passion towards mental health, her decision to get help for her own struggles, and how the process made her a better performer and artist overall. Pauline talks about meeting her husband Robert Elliot, who now joins her co-presenting The BIG Show on NVTV. She also talks about adapting her play, Am I Mad or What? into a book, and how that experience helped her process deep emotions and get through to the other side. All three women talk about how we can show up playing a role in our everyday lives, and how to recognize when that is happening so we can stop, get the help we need, and show up authentically for ourselves and others.

Takeaway:

[2:23] Pauline offers high-quality singing lessons in Belfast, she trained and graduated as a singer and singing teacher from the prestigious Royal Academy of Music under the mentorship of the renowned Vocal Specialist Mary Hammond and X Factors' Vocal Coach Annemarie Speed. She also trained as an actor at the Royal Conservatoire Scotland.

[2:30] Pauline is very passionate about mental health and is an advocate for being open about emotional and mental health struggles. She opens up about how the sudden passing of her own father affected her at age 14. This was a very distressing experience, and she was frightened to fully talk about the depression and anxiety it caused her because she was afraid of the stigma and possible consequences. J.J. adds that gifted misfits that are very talented but feel tortured and tormented often hide their sadness and try to bury it. For Pauline, she thought she could tuck it away and try to use the emotion as an actress, but she found that risking her own mental health was not worth the brilliant performances.

[8:02] While on holiday in Belgium, Pauline also witnessed the attempted rape of a member of the family she was staying with. This pain already added to the depression she was feeling, and a protective wall went up in order to survive. This wall can only serve us for so long until it becomes a cage in our adult years.

[14:38] The best actors and actresses need to have the emotional intelligence to know the difference between performing on and off stage. Pauline speaks with Jo and J.J. about the theatre classes she gives and points out that it's often difficult to get adults to delineate between the two, but the youth are less challenging because they are more open and adaptable. J.J. also needed to take a break from acting because she found that actors and actresses were just living a mirage of life rather than really being in the moment as a regular human and not a performer. For Pauline, singers are really spectacular because they have a lot of depth and it's the type of thing one can't fake.

[20:06] Becoming a TV presenter was a new exciting experience for Pauline and found it a great way to learn about others, inspire them with the way she shows up in the world, and let down her barriers for the world to see.

[21:48] We don't have to just be actors to play a role in our lives. Jo played the role of a super self-confident tax consultant that could make everything interesting.

[24:25] Pauline speaks about the process of writing her book, Am I Mad or What? and getting through a few of the more painful chapters. She had moments of depression, pain, and heartache, but it was good for her to feel the emotions and get them out in her conversational and open style.

[34:16] The more we can accept the weirdness and flaws in ourselves and others, the less suffering we would have overall in our society.

[34:50] Pauline talks about the evolution from her play to the book, and how she benefitted from having her husband Robin beside her. Robin listens to her and hears her for what she really has to say, and this gives her a safe space to create and share her work while getting feedback from someone she deeply respects. The two work together brilliantly, minus the occasional row about lapel microphones.

[38:02] Pauline speaks openly about her first marriage, and the different strategy she took when getting back on the market.

[43:48] Everything Pauline does is under the umbrella of being good for her overall mental health. She has learned to not overschedule herself, take breaks, and put herself first. After years of fighting it, she has now learned to listen to her gut and let it guide her through life.

Connect With Us:

Joanna Denton | Dr. J.J. Kelly

Pauline Carville

Twitter | Singing Lessons Belfast | The BIG Show | LinkedIn

This week, we welcome Kristine Goad, author of Surfing Your Edge and personal transformation coach. We talk with her about embarking on the biggest adventure in life, finding out who we really are and having the courage to embrace it and show it off to the world. Kristine feels most alive when doing something out of her comfort zone, and now helps facilitate people throughout their big events in life. Kristine talks with us about embracing her own so-called failures and turning them into life lessons, and advice for trusting your gut and just enjoying the process without having an attachment to a certain outcome. Whether it's participating in a 48 day cross country bike ride, plunging herself into the ocean for a triathlon or just having the courage to get to know herself better, if there is a fear, Kristine is going to conquer it.

Takeaway:

[1:56] Kristine helps her clients see themselves for who they truly are and figure out what they want in life. She shares a bit about her own story and how she wasn't diagnosed properly with depression until there was a crisis. If there is one thing the COVID-19 pandemic has taught us, it's that we shouldn't wait until there is a crisis to have a plan and work on our own emotional health.

[5:50] To Kristine, Surfing on the Edge means doing something you have no clue how to do, and trusting yourself that either you will figure it out during the process, or at the very least you will learn along the way. She shares examples of diving into what scares her the most, whether it's a surf retreat in Panama or the ocean as part of a triathlon to get over her aversion to swimming in water. To her, if you are living and breathing, you still have time to conquer your fear, or at least get comfortable with the uncomfortability of it.

[13:08] The worst case scenario that we play in our minds is usually less terrible than what happens in actuality. Jo discusses how there are scary things that she has done in her life that others might have found really overwhelming - like moving to a different country at 18, or leaping off a 20 foot high platform onto, basically, an inflatable mattress; and then there are other things - like publishing a blog post - that sent her off into a spiral of fear outside her comfort zone, things that pretty much anyone else would have thought to be a walk in the park. Fear is relative, and it's personal to each of us.

[18:02] Kristine talks about a bike ride she did for the American Lung Association that lasted 48 days and saw her riding across the US. She didn't ride every mile on the cross country trip, and that triggered some people and made them feel as though their accomplishments were diminished. This is a perfect example of perfectionism and how it kills our potential for joy when we are just attached to one outcome. One of the reasons that Kristine did the bike ride was that she hoped that somewhere along the way, she would work out what it was that she was meant to do in her life. Much to her annoyance, Kristine got to the end of the bike ride none the wiser - the universe hadn't sent her any clues at all (at least, so she thought). Jo quickly notices that perhaps the universe had been sending her messages - that all she needed to do was be herself. Just try and stay on the bike, and not worry about anything else. Kristine explains that over the twenty years following the bike ride she finally came to exactly the same conclusion.

[27:44] It is common for people to do "big" things and feel depressed after, because they don't feel as happy or complete as they thought they would once they got there. Using her own experience of feeling depressed after the bike ride and not knowing what to do next, Kristine is able to connect with her Surfing On the Edge participants to coach them through their own adventures with compassion and wisdom.

[30:45] Jo talks about how when she realized that the only way to survive was by being fully herself, she felt both a joy and sadness. When we can fully be ourselves, it gives permission to others to do the same.

[35:22] Kristine had a fruitful and productive 2020, and then at the start of 2021, she set herself up for 75 Hard, a very rigorous 75 day challenge. This challenge calls for a lot of discipline and consistency, and while those are two attributes Kristine desired more of, she found herself beating herself up for not completing the rigorous tasks. J.J. says that in DBT, we would look at the emotions that were leading to her beating herself up.

[40:42] Sometimes things happen so organically that we don't trust it, but we should. Trust the process, and your gut.

Connect With Us:

Joanna Denton | Dr. J.J. Kelly

Surfing Your Edge

Kristine Goad | LinkedIn

Flip Your Happy Switch

75 Hard

This week, we talk about the need for intention and compassion behind self-care. If we see self care as another thing to check off on the to-do list, we are simply missing the point. We discuss how self-care can be swept up and glorified in our culture of crossing things off our list and showing others how calm and peaceful we are, when in reality that is just not the case. When we feel as though we don't "self-care" enough or the right way, we flog ourselves and feel worse about ourselves then we even did before we started. We also talk about ways to tune in and feel the emotions that are arising during your self-care, and a powerful tip for ending your work day that your brain will thank you for time and time again.

Takeaway:

[1:43] Spring has sprung, and J.J. explains why she thinks everyone goes a little bit more mental during this season! People think it's always positive energy that comes with spring, but it's not always new flowers in bloom for therapists! Once J.J. figured out that spring fever is not one of her favorite times, she learned to take some time off and practice her own form of self care. The primal nature that comes with spring leads to impulsivity and we could all benefit during this time to slow down and be more mindful with our decisions and actions.

[5:10] For self-care to be truly effective, we must be aware of the emotions we are experiencing. Otherwise, it's just another activity on the to do list. Joanna talks about times when she ups the self care because she is in a self defined "funk". Being in a funk is not an emotion of itself - but it describes a feeling of sadness and overwhelm. JJ explains that by the time Jo is in a "funk", she has already been dealing with a bunch of stuff in the run up to it. We must therefore go back one more step where we feel the sadness, fear, that led to the place of overwhelm. When we recognise and validate those feelings, we can really start to benefit from the self care that we do for ourselves. Otherwise it is just another exercise of squashing down emotions we don't want to feel.

[7:36] To even determine what would be the best self-care for you, slow down and get in touch with what you are feeling. Ask yourself, what does self care look like to you? There are basic ones we all need, like staying hydrated and getting enough sleep, but it can look very different from person to person. It has to have a real heart of compassion to it, and if you are not validating your emotional experience, you have already missed that train.

[9:48] Jo and J.J. discuss a participant in a UK reality show - a former athlete who has taken up yoga to go through life with less pain. By his own admission he got incredibly competitive about it and talked in an interview about how that competitiveness was really missing the point. He then learned to let go of the competitiveness and just do what was right for him. Too often we might see our self-care as something to win at, compare ourselves to others of how "good" we are at it, or just see it as another thing to conquer. Deliberate and mindful self-care is really what will move the needle, not just doing something to fit in or brag about.

[12:20] Especially in this era of working from home, it is smart to have a ritual or even just one action that signifies to your brain that you are done working for the day. Whether it's wearing a piece of jewelry that you take off at the end of your work day, shutting your computer down, or cleaning off your workspace, this signals to the brain that you are done, and it's time to rest and recover.

[13:24] If you need external validation, that is an understandable feeling, but it's not a way to prove your worth or make yourself whole.

[15:10] Joanna defines the fear of rejection and not being good enough that had a part in leading to her own burnout, which then transferred over in her self-care. When she stopped working super long hours, she started doing more things to look after herself. However, she had such long held beliefs about working hard and that taking care of herself meant that she was lazy - that when she started to do the self-care, she needed to check in "that she was doing it right". At the end of the day, there is no right or wrong, it's the impact of being calm you are looking for, and that is a process that is internally defined instead of externally decided by your Instagram followers.

[21:05] Self-care also doesn't mean lazy, nor does it require a lot of time or money. It can be something as simple as going for a walk, sitting in the sun, making a nice meal, etc.

Connect With Us:

Joanna Denton | Dr. JJ Kelly

This week, we sit down with Audrey Thorne, host of the Lights, Camera, Analysis podcast, teacher and mentor. Audrey herself is a film lover and invites her podcast guests to talk about life lessons through the lens of movies we all know and love. We talk with Audrey about how we can learn about mental health and emotional intelligence through the movies we watch, what our emotions teach us about our values, and how teachers are coping with the long hours and stress in the profession, particularly during the pandemic.

Takeaway:

[3:18] Audrey's podcast, Lights, Camera, Analysis provides life lessons through the lens of different films. Audrey is a proud film nerd and her college thesis on "I Love Lucy" proved to her how much we undervalue how much we can learn from films. Audrey's podcast serves young adults and teenagers for many reasons, one being that it is easier to learn something while you enjoy watching a film than simply listening to an adult telling you what to do.

[6:11] We discuss two movies that are great for analysis — Perks of Being a Wallflower, and Easy A. These movies have themes about handling mental health, shame, and stigma that can be relatable to young adults.

[15:31] Trigger warnings are often misconstrued. Instead of an invitation to completely opt out of a conversation or experience, it may be more an opportunity for boundary setting and resilience. We discuss that sensitivity isn't something to run away from or invalidate, but is there also a possibility sometimes we are being too sensitive? Jo raises the point of how arguably there has been a pendulum shift from an older generation who were told to "suck it up" and who don't want to talk about their mental health, to the opposite extreme where the younger generation may simply vomit everything they feel on to the table without any filter. Audrey's podcast can help provide teens and young adults the tools for handling their sensitive nature that they may not be getting elsewhere.

[18:42] It's important to have boundaries, but it's also important for you to challenge yourself and encourage others to do the same. One thing Audrey loves about her work as a teacher is providing the students with social-emotional check-ins to understand how they are feeling and to validate their emotions. When they are clear on their values and show resilience and discipline, it builds their self-esteem and boosts their self-image.

[24:31] Mentors, teachers, and leaders shouldn't be scared to challenge their students. It's a teenager's job to push out, and it's the teacher, leader or mentor's job to push back in. When we walk on eggshells and hold back, we do everyone involved, including ourselves, a disservice.

[29:55] Things that make us feel passionate and alive can also be somewhat scary! It could be as simple as asking yourself, "Is this going to kill me?" and if the answer is no, finding the courage to move through it, and to remember times that we've been brave.

[35:24] There is no set formula to joy, and we don't need to agree on what the exact steps to feeling joyful should be. Just that it gets a conversation started around emotional intelligence is great, as most people still think "emotional intelligence" means anger management.

[37:24] Audrey discusses how she and her teaching colleagues are taking care of her own mental health, especially during the pandemic. Longer hours and more screen time can also mean more fatigue and burnout, but it's important to find a little pocket of joys and dedicate some offline time every couple hours.

[42:50] Audrey opens up about the fear of being a terrible teacher in her early years. She learned to have a growth mindset and accepted that you can never be perfect and serve everyone optimally at all times.

Connect With Us:

Joanna Denton | Dr. JJ Kelly

Resources

Lights, Camera, Analysis | Audrey Thorne

This week, we are joined by the extremely wise and generous Olivia Hoffman, who has worked with J.J. for more than a decade, is now her sidekick on their Throw Up Thursday shows on Instagram, and a member of the Unorthodocs collective. Olivia talks about her experience of therapy as a teenager, as well as the generational shift in attitude regarding mental health. Olivia shares advice for some older folks, and she and J.J. talk about breakthrough moments in their own work together where they could see real growth and healing, even through some stubbornness and resistance.

Takeaway:

[2:47] Olivia has been working with J.J. over a decade, and now the two are having fun hosting Throw Up Thursday together on IG.

[5:21] J.J. kicked Olivia out of a therapy session once. They had been talking about something Olivia had done that was really self-sabotaging and self-harming, and Olivia was going through the session saying "I don't know, I don't know". After a certain length of time, J.J. felt that it was her role to push back and challenge Olivia not to continue with the BS. Olivia went away and dug deep, to really see what J.J. was trying to do and the importance of the work they were doing together and came back stronger and fitter than before. Now, so many years of therapy later, Olivia is passionate about helping others benefit from her experience and teaching the tools to many other young adults out there.

[9:31] Olivia opens up about feeling defensive and moving past it because she knew that what she was getting from her work with J.J. was well worth it. We discuss what makes it easier for a younger generation to talk about mental health and their emotions than for our's (Jo and J.J.'s), who were taught to just suck it up and stop complaining. There are many possible reasons for this, including societal shifts and role models, and it may also be easier for younger people to adapt to mental and emotional shifts because they haven't created such strong neural pathways around their beliefs, as compared to older people who have built up resilience.

[12:20] It is extremely important for Olivia to get her message out and help other people. Anytime she feels burnt out or has hit a roadblock, she imagines herself helping one more child and it's definitely worth it.

[14:20] When we are driven by our purpose we are better able to push fear to the side and keep going.

[16:25] The new generations are letting out their emotions, almost to the extreme. Social media makes anyone able to say whatever is on their mind at the moment, but that can come with consequences if not handled correctly.

[19:39] Joanna shares how her experience with burnout not only was tough for her personally but her work colleagues and bosses not knowing how to act around her made it even worse. One of the researchers into burnout makes an analogy to the canary in the mine. When the canary enters the mine, it is full of song and very healthy — when it falls off the perch, you can't blame the canary for being down in the mine, you can blame the toxic fumes and gas in the mine for making the canary sick. Similarly, burnout is an indicator of a toxic environment in the workplace. Leaders must look at their teams and see if new hires are experiencing burnout due to dysfunction in the organization itself.

[23:35] J.J. is amazed by all the skilled young people she sees in her practice and is thrilled when someone like Olivia comes out and shares their story with the world.

[24:51] You don't have to agree with someone to validate their emotions, and you also don't have to allow much whining after you validate their feelings. In DBT, a statement validating someone's feelings could sound like, "I understand this is hard, and you can do hard things." Validating statements are incredibly important. They allow us to validate the stuff that we feel, and this helps in our self-esteem. However, all too often people use similar statements as a means to manipulate others into doing what they want. This is very different from what we are talking about here, and you can feel the difference in intent. The structure of the sentence is also important — and it's key to note that we avoid the word "but". "But" is a powerful word that goes to negate everything that has come before, and used badly will crush the spirit. In this context, we also talk about how (i) we validate the emotion, (ii) we don't validate the thoughts, and then (iii) we look to move forward into problem-solving. Traditional psychotherapy might see the therapist let you sit and complain — and this is not going to help you move forward into problem-solving. It is rather enabling and toxic — and it is important to note that if you are turning up for therapy you are turning up to get help to move forward.

[37:55] If you have purpose and you are focused, the fear just falls away.

[41:00] Olivia's advice to the people in their 40's and above — Listen. Actually listen to the way you hear things, and how you react, then sit with it and trust that more will be revealed.

Tweetables:

• "It's really scary to challenge the things you have believed all your life." - Olivia
• "Anybody that wants to, can change." - J.J.
• "My strength is when I'm helping other people" - Olivia
• "My head exploded trying to think about which came first, the emotions or the thoughts." - Joanna
• "I went to a psychologist who sat in the corner for the first three sessions and didn't say a word. On top of that, it was in French." - Joanna
• " Having a purpose takes care of a lot of the fear of change." - J.J.

Connect With Us:

Joanna Denton | Dr. JJ Kelly

Resources

Throw Up Thursday - Every Thursday at 4 pm PST on J.J.'s Instagram: @drjjkelly

This week, we hear from a listener who worked hard and diligently to get a promotion at work, only to now have crippling anxiety, imposter syndrome, and a whole lot of stress about doing their new job correctly. We talk about the stress and anxiety that commonly occurs when taking on a new role at work, and how that anxiety can turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy if not managed correctly. We discuss the difference between the initial pain or fear that then creates suffering, analysis paralysis, and a feeling of non-stop impending doom.

How can we break the cycle, challenge our thoughts, and find a new way of working and living while trying our best? Tune in to find out!

Takeaway:

[4:30] Our listener this week was promoted in their job six months ago. They were excited at first, but now the reality of this new responsibility is bringing terror and fear about making a mistake and screwing everything up.

[6:31] Joanna can really relate to this situation, and talks about one such career transition that took place when she was working in corporate. After working really hard and demonstrating she was worth the promotion, the problems quickly set in after she took on the new role. She started stressing herself out about every aspect of the job, and in particular started to panic about making decisions that six months previously had been a walk in the park. She started to get so overwhelmed with worry thoughts that it affected her focus and created a self-fulfilling prophecy, until things came to a head one day when her boss took her to one side and had words with her.

[9:14] J.J. discusses how DBT approaches the difference between pain and suffering. Suffering is the non acceptance of pain. In this example, the pain is the fear and performance anxiety. The pain is natural, but the suffering occurs when we don't accept it to be real - instead we stay in constant worry, believing our worst fears and treating our negative thoughts as facts.

[13:10] We understand that it's ok for others to make a mistake — even in life or death situations — because to err is human. But when we do it, we tend to beat ourselves up and see it as though we've let everyone down on something earth-shatteringly important.

[14:47] Great leaders create an environment where their team is able to be open and honest about making a mistake, and they use their knowledge and experience to move forward in the best way. This is particularly important in companies where innovation is key - we can only have innovation if we are comfortable making mistakes. It's not easy though, because we are brainwashed by society to try and come across as picture-perfect and as though we've got it all together.

[20:08]The conversation turns to burnout in the workplace, and the work that Jo is doing to break down the stigma around the topic. Many big companies are investing funds to put programmes in place to promote a better work life balance in the workplace, but in a number of cases there does not seem to be much traction or change. There may be many reasons behind that, and Jo suggests that one of them may be the mis-perception among the staff that the leaders do not really buy in the programme and are merely paying lip service. Jo suggests that the truth may be more complex - not so much that the leaders do not buy in, but more that they are not ready or willing to talk about how they are suffering in front of their teams. There are many valid reasons why a leader would be unwilling to do this - however, in not doing so there is a risk that the staff misunderstand. If they believe the leaders are just paying lip service, this will give rise to frustration among the staff, and a reluctance to change things from their side. Jo is now on a mission to talk about burnout and what leaders can do to take care of themselves, even if these are difficult conversations. And every time that she shares her TEDx or talks about the book, she gets feedback from others thanking her for sharing the story.

[25:49] In talking about the suffering that comes when we don't face up to the emotions that we are experiencing, Jo points out that one reason this can happen is that we simply don't know we are facing those emotions. Very concretely, Jo explains that at the time she was working in corporate and riddled with fear and self doubt, she didn't actually know she was riddled with fear and self doubt. She just thought she was trying to get through the day and not screw up. With hindsight it is clear that there was that uncertainty, and if she had known it at the time, she might have been able to validate that emotion and avoid the suffering. But she didn't.

[28.26] You know what, it's scary to do a new job, to uplevel. And it is normal to feel scared. We need to validate that emotion, and then allow ourselves to deal with the emotion so we can move on.

[32:20] Feeling relaxed and having fun is all-around better for business and productivity. Instead of sparing your sleep and self-care, get that walk-in. Drink some water. Breathe.

Connect With Us:

Joanna Denton | Dr. JJ Kelly

Resources

Distress Tolerance

Jo's TEDx

Brene Brown