To a large degree, the levels of inequality present in the United States intensified in the 1980s and 1990s. Starting in those decades, the poorest Americans began facing new threats, such as the “reforms” made to social welfare programs and the rise of mass incarceration. Our guest today has spent 30 years studying how politics and policy have shaped the lives of America’s poor, and his new book explores a lesser-known trend, one that persists today: the massive revenues the legal system extracts from the poor, a phenomenon he calls “legal plunder.”

Joe Soss is the Cowles Chair for the Study of Public Service at the University of Minnesota. His most recent book (with sociologist Joshua Page) is Legal Plunder: The Predatory Dimensions of Criminal Justice. In this conversation with host Geoff Wodtke, Soss discusses the mechanisms through which the legal system strips resources from the poor, as well as how poverty governance became defined by “neoliberal paternalism,” which he chronicled in his first book, Disciplining the Poor.