Manuel Pais, InfoQ Lead Editor for DevOps, talks to John Willis, Director of Ecosystem Development for Docker and co-author of the "DevOps Handbook", on DevOps evolution, leadership and burnout.

Why listen to this podcast:

- DevOps got watered down along the way, but its principles and practices will stay.

- People can learn the technical side of DevOps with training but they need to follow up on case studies from organizations that went through similar journeys.

- Still early days to be able to distill what are the good and bad DevOps leadership practices, but we at least know that blameless environments are much more productive.

- We are missing a burnout survey in DevOps, number of people affected probably staggering high but no one knows for sure, so the problem gets underrated.

- The new view on human error is that we need to look at the system that allowed people to make the mistakes in the first place.

More on this: Quick scan our curated show notes on InfoQ http://bit.ly/2rLIPrG

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