Economics as a discipline holds particular authority among the social sciences. The field owes its heft in part to the sophistication of its methods and models, both of which seem to grow ever more intricate. But what if in its quest for more complex techniques, mainstream economics is overlooking basic yet essential questions: For one, what is the economy?

Jonathan Levy is a historian at Sciences Po. His latest book is The Real Economy, which critiques contemporary economics and draws on historical analysis to posit a new conception of “the economy.” He is also the author of Ages of American Capitalism, which chronicles the evolution of the U.S. economy. In this conversation, he discusses his work, what Keynes learned from Freud, and what economists can learn from historians with host Steven Durlauf.