Even if you aren’t ideologically opposed to segregation in schools, research shows that it doesn’t make sense for practical reasons — and that goes not only for segregation by race but also segregation by gender, ability, or age. What generally proves beneficial, from preschool to college, are heterogeneous environments — diverse schools and, equally important, diverse classrooms. But because proximity doesn’t guarantee affection, the optimal arrangement also provides support for interdependence: guided heterogeneity in which learning is structured to promote shared goals and perspective taking.

RESOURCES

For citations to the research mentioned in this episode, please see “Heterogenius,” the essay on which it’s based.

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We’re faced with a silent epidemic of obedience, a pervasive failure to become outraged by outrageous things. Adults whose highest accolade for a child is “well-behaved” often themselves suffer from a crisis of moral courage. This episode offers practical suggestions for teachers and parents who want to help kids acquire not only the capacity but the inclination to question what they’re told — and, when necessary, to refuse to go along.

A note from Alfie Kohn:

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We have been raised – and, in turn, raise our children – to take on faith that recreation requires competition, that half the people playing a game must try to defeat the other half. (They “cooperate” only with their teammates, and only in order to triumph over the other team.) In a true cooperative game, by contrast, everyone on the field – or gathered around a table indoors, in the case of cooperative board games – is working together toward the same goal. There are loads of such games for kids and adults, and you have to experience them to realize just how much fun competition isn’t.

RESOURCES:

Alfie Kohn, No Contest: The Case Against Competition (Houghton Mifflin, 1986/1992) – https://www.alfiekohn.org/contest/

Terry Orlick, The Cooperative Sports & Games Book (Pantheon, 1978) – https://amzn.to/33rltfY

https://www.cooperativegames.com/

https://familypastimes.com

A note from Alfie Kohn:

If you have comments or questions about an episode, send it to https://www.alfiekohn.org/contact-us/. And if you’re willing to help keep the podcast ad- and paywall-free, please click on the donate button or visit https://coff.ee/kohnszone. Thanks!

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In theory, the fact that all but a handful of states have eliminated do-or-die exit exams allows high schools to finally do right by teenagers, to help them become engaged intellectuals and caring people. A leading theorist and practitioner of secondary education – author, professor, and long-time Midwestern principal George Wood – examines the barriers to creating meaningful high school reform as well as how they can be overcome. That means reducing school size and class size; having students take fewer classes and giving them more autonomy; eliminating tracking; creating advisory systems and interdisciplinary faculty teams; promoting deep intellectual inquiry in place of mere transmission of knowledge; creating authentic assessment and opportunities for cross-age interaction. If all of this can be done in a low-income public school district in rural Ohio, it can be done anywhere.

RESOURCES:

George H. Wood, Time to Learn, 2nd ed. (Heinemann, 2005) – https://tinyurl.com/2z25vd9m

George H. Wood, Schools That Work (Plume, 1993) – https://tinyurl.com/2zpccmhu

Theodore R. Sizer, Horace’s Compromise (Harper, 1984/2004) – https://tinyurl.com/bdhyvtr7

Deborah Meier, The Power of Their Ideas (Beacon, 1995) – https://tinyurl.com/2u9cbkaw

Harvey Daniels et al., Rethinking High School (Heinemann, 2000) – https://tinyurl.com/3t22mfxf

Eliot Levine, One Kid at a Time (Teachers College Press, 2001) – https://tinyurl.com/59ddwzyw

3 videos illustrating progressive education at a public high school (Urban Academy):

“Talk Talk Talk”: https://vimeo.com/590281072

“Looking for an Argument”: https://vimeo.com/453359582

“Back to the Books”: https://is.gd/WH5JCZ

A note from Alfie Kohn:

If you’re enjoying Kohn’s Zone, please tell other people about it.

If you have comments or questions about an episode, send it to https://www.alfiekohn.org/contact-us/.

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When you look at student transcripts (rather than at self-reports), it’s less clear that average grades are rising over time. And even if some grades are higher, that doesn’t mean they’re “inflated” (i.e., undeserved). But many conservative critics don’t seem troubled by their inability to prove those claims; they’re indignant whenever a lot of kids get high grades, as if that outcome were inherently objectionable. Four troubling assumptions inform their outrage: that higher grades imply lower standards; that a teacher’s job is to sort students (rather than to help everyone succeed); that stringent grading motivates students (which conflates extrinsic with intrinsic motivation and is unsupported by data); and that students should be pitted against each other in a race for artificially scarce high grades (so that no matter how well everyone does, there must always be losers). If there is a crisis in education, it’s not how many students get A’s — it’s how many think the point of school is to get A’s (rather than to learn).

RESOURCES:

Lester H. Hunt, ed., Grade Inflation: Academic Standards in Higher Education (SUNY Press, 2008) — https://tinyurl.com/3phxfp5j

Alfie Kohn, “Can Everyone Be Excellent?”, New York Times, June 16, 2019 — https://www.alfiekohn.org/article/excellence/

A note from Alfie Kohn:

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In the absence of an affirmative definition of mental health, psychology doesn’t become value-free; its values – and the goals of therapy – are just driven underground. Similarly, if we don’t reflect on the purpose of education, schooling by default is oriented just to collecting a credential. The point of this episode is not to recommend one specific educational goal but to sharpen the questions we ask about that topic (and emphasize the importance of asking them). For example: Should the goal(s) of education be the same for all students? Do we favor intellectual, as opposed to purely vocational, outcomes – and, if so, are they more about transmitting knowledge or developing the capacity for critical thinking? Is the point to benefit individual students or our society — and, if the latter, does that mean boosting the economy or sustaining democracy? And what role should students themselves play in determining the reasons for learning?

RESOURCE:

Labaree, How to Succeed in School Without Really Learning (Yale Univ. Press, 1999) — https://tinyurl.com/2cz5mmyp

If you’re enjoying Kohn’s Zone, please tell other people about it. If you have feedback about an episode, send it to https://www.alfiekohn.org/contact-us/. And if you’re willing to do your part to keep the podcast ad- and paywall-free, kindly click on the donate button. Thanks!

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In traditional classrooms, students may contribute to a discussion only by raising their hands and waiting for the teacher to call on them. In even more controlling environments, students must contribute when the teacher calls on them, even if they’d rather not. The latter practice, “cold calling,” puts kids on the spot and forces them to perform on command. But the former practice, too, could be described as teacher-centered. Is there a way to change this dynamic in such a way that everyone won’t talk at once while also making sure that a few outspoken students won’t dominate the discussion? What would it mean for teachers to create a more democratic learning community by relinquishing the power to unilaterally decide who speaks when?

RESOURCES:

“Raising Hands” video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqzSlO9dp0c#t=00m25s

Kassia Omohundro Wedekind & Christy Hermann Thompson, Hands Down, Speak Out (Routledge, 2020) — https://tinyurl.com/26ccz97f

A note from Alfie Kohn:

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Public schools, says Jennifer Berkshire, are the places “where we start to solve problems together” and from which no child can be excluded even if she has special needs or two moms. Public education is really the foundation of a pluralistic secular democracy, which is precisely why it has long been the target of the religious right. This extended episode of Kohn’s Zone features a conversation with Berkshire, who expertly guides us through efforts not only to impose religion, book bans, and a right-wing curriculum on public schools but to undermine the institution itself. Voucher plans are unpopular even in red states, but that reflects anti-government fervor more than support for public education, she explains. Liberals may be frustrated when schools fail to create a more egalitarian society, whereas conservatives fear that schools may succeed at this. Can a shared suspicion of wealthy interests — or opposition to standardized testing — fend off “school choice” plans? And where do charter schools fit in? Don’t miss this illuminating conversation.

RESOURCES:

Jennifer C. Berkshire and Jack Schneider, The Education Wars (New Press, 2024) — https://is.gd/9sZcHF

Jack Schneider and Jennifer C. Berkshire, A Wolf at the Schoolhouse Door (New Press, 2023) — https://is.gd/RCGOEa

https://www.haveyouheardpodcast.com/

A note from Alfie Kohn:

My sincere thanks to the listeners who have taken a minute to click on the DONATE link (or to visit coff.ee/kohnszone) and helped to cover our production costs, thereby keeping the podcast ad- and paywall-free. If you are not yet one of the listeners who has done this, it’s not too late. It will also not be too late tomorrow, but doing so right now would be even better.

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Enforced harmony is counterproductive. Pushing students (or employees) to come to agreement prematurely tends to undermine learning (or produce bad decisions). Sometimes that’s motivated by a desire to avoid conflict. But conflict handled carefully is not only tolerable; it’s valuable. What’s problematic is debate – disagreement where the point is not to learn or seek the truth but to win. The ideal arrangement in a classroom (or workplace) is cooperative conflict, where spirited disagreement is non-adversarial and nested in a caring environment.

RESOURCES:

David W. Johnson & Roger T. Johnson, “Energizing Learning: The Instructional Power of Conflict,” Educational Researcher (2009) — https://tinyurl.com/yc7t265j

Karl Smith et al., “Can Conflict Be Constructive?” Journal of Educational Psychology (1981) — https://tinyurl.com/474ja9bu

Alfie Kohn, No Contest: The Case Against Competition, rev. ed. (Houghton Mifflin, 1992) — https://www.alfiekohn.org/contest/

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We’re often warned about an “epidemic” of academic cheating and urged to do more to deter and punish the devious culprits. But we’ve had a century of research showing that the frequency of cheating is predicted not by the compromised morality of individual students but by the policies, priorities, and practices of schools. Specifically, cheating is far more common in competitive, achievement-oriented environments and much rarer when students experience the learning as meaningful and engaging and believe that their teachers care about them. In this episode we consider how systemic features not only increase the likelihood of cheating but are responsible for determining which actions (such as collaborating or consulting reference sources) constitute cheating in the first place.

RESOURCES:

Character Education Inquiry, Studies in the Nature of Character. Volume 1: Studies in Deceit (New York: Macmillan, 1928) — https://tinyurl.com/72jrrnrz

Y. Kanat-Maymon et al., “The Role of Basic Need-Fulfillment in Academic Dishonesty,” Contemporary Educational Psychology 43 (2015) — https://tinyurl.com/yjvxswsy

A note from Alfie Kohn:

If you’ve been enjoying, or at least listening to, the podcast but have put off supporting it with a modest quantity of cash, I am pleased to inform you that it is not too late to do so. It will also not be too late to do so tomorrow, but doing so today would be even better. Microphones, as my late father might have said, do not grow on trees.

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