If generative AI was the biggest story in legal tech in 2023 and 2024, agentic AI is proving to be the most talked-about topic of 2025. Spurring this, at least in part, has been Thomson Reuters’ announcement of its forthcoming release of a new agentic version of CoCounsel, its AI legal assistant, that will be able to plan, reason and execute complex multi-step workflows for legal professionals.

On this episode of LawNext, we will dive deep into this next generation of AI legal assistants with two guests who are at the forefront of this field, leading the development of CoCounsel’s next generation: Emily Colbert and Rawia Ashraf. Both joined Thomson Reuters back in 2013 through its acquisition of Practical Law, where they cut their teeth building practice-focused products for lawyers. Now, they are leading the charge on the evolution of CoCounsel into a new generation of agentic workflows, with Colbert overseeing CoCounsel’s litigation portfolio, while Rawia heading up product development for the transactional and corporate side.

In today’s conversation, we'll explore how AI is moving beyond simple question-and-answer chatbots to become something more like a smart associate that can chain together multiple tasks, research cases, draft documents, and walk through complex legal workflows step by step. We'll also talk about the challenges of bringing cutting-edge technology to a profession that values precision and trust, learn more about what's coming this summer in CoCounsel’s next major release for legal professionals, and get Colbert’s and Ashraf’s thoughts on how all of this will reshape the practice of law. 

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When legal research giant LexisNexis and legal AI giant Harvey announced a strategic alliance last month, legal tech commentator Richard Tromans called it “possibly the most important legal tech move in a decade.” On today’s episode of LawNext, we go deep into the partnership and its implications with Sean Fitzpatrick, CEO of LexisNexis North America, UK & Ireland. 

Through the partnership, LexisNexis will integrate its primary law content, Shepard's citations, and AI technology directly into Harvey's platform, and the two companies will jointly develop agentic AI workflows. The partnership comes on the heels of Harvey's remarkable Series E funding round, raising $300 million at a $5 billion valuation, in which RELX, LexisNexis's parent company, was a participating investor. 

So what drove this alliance? In his interview with host Bob Ambrogi, Fitzpatrick reveals it wasn't a boardroom strategy session that sparked this partnership, but rather customer demand from large law firms seeking the combined power of LexisNexis's authoritative legal content and Harvey's AI capabilities.

Fitzpatrick talks about what this means for the future of legal AI, how it addresses the persistent challenge of hallucinations in AI-generated legal content, and whether we're witnessing the emergence of a new model for legal tech partnerships. He also shares insights from recent ROI studies showing dramatic productivity gains for both law firms and corporate legal departments using AI tools. 

This episode of LawNext is generously made possible by our sponsors. We appreciate their support and hope you will check them out.

• Paradigm, home to the practice management platforms PracticePanther, Bill4Time, MerusCase and LollyLaw; the e-payments platform Headnote; and the legal accounting software TrustBooks.

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Supio, an AI-driven platform developed specifically for personal injury lawyers, has been generating a lot of buzz. On the heels of reporting record growth last year and raising $25 million in Series A funding in October, last month it raised another $60 million in a Series B round. But what do the lawyers who use the platform think of it? On today’s LawNext, we hear from one of those lawyers, as well as from the company’s cofounder and CEO.

Our guests today are:

• Tyler Schneider, managing partner of the personal injury law firm TorHoerman Law. Schneider was an early adopter of Supio. He and his firm used it to help obtain a $495 million verdict against Abbott Labs in a case involving allegations that cow’s milk-based infant formula caused intestinal inflammation in premature babies.

• Jerry Zhou, the CEO of Supio who cofounded it in 2021 together with his childhood friend and coworker Kyle Lam after having held product management and engineering roles at Microsoft and Avalara. 

In their conversation with host Bob Ambrogi, Zhou and Schneider talk about the development of Supio, its real-world impact on plaintiffs’ lawyers, and their wish lists for further development of the product. They also share their thoughts on how AI is likely to reshape PI practice more broadly. 

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When Chris Cartrett was named CEO of legal technology company Aderant in 2022, he did so with the mission of aggressively advancing a cloud-first strategy throughout the company’s suite of business and financial software for law firms. Given that Aderant is a nearly 50-year-old company with many customers who still use the on-premises version of its software, that was not an easy mission to fulfill. 

So three years later, what grade does he give himself in delivering on that mission? That is one of the questions I put to him during a special live LawNext interview. We recorded the interview at Aderant’s Momentum Global 2025 user conference in Dallas last month, where Aderant graciously allowed me to use its Studio A recording equipment it had set up at the conference for its own podcast. 

In a wide-ranging interview, Cartrett talks about his focus on the cloud, generative AI, and customer service, and why he believes all three are so important right now. He also talks about the company’s growth, reflected in the fact that 2024 was a record-breaking year for Aderant and 2025 is on track to be even stronger. We talk about the future of Aderant, the future of law practice, and the likely impact of generative AI, and I ask him how he uses gen AI in his own daily work. 

Cartrett first came to Aderant in 2014 from Thomson Reuters as senior vice president of strategy and growth and was promoted to executive vice president in 2017 before becoming president in 2021 and CEO in 2022..

A big thanks to Aderant for letting me use its recording studio and for providing me with the final recording. 

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What happens when a CEO steps away from a legal tech company just before the generative AI revolution explodes, then returns two years later amid a landscape that is being dramatically transformed? For Litera’s Avaneesh Marwaha, that is exactly what happened. 

As the CEO of Litera from 2016 to 2022, Marwaha led the legal tech company through a remarkable period of expansion and diversification, including growing its global customer base by over 1,500% and its annual revenues by 1200%, and overseeing some 14 acquisitions that transformed the company’s focus from document productivity to a broad range of legal workflows, ranging from transaction management and due diligence to litigation, firm intelligence, and more.

Marwaha stepped down as CEO in 2022 to become Litera’s chairman, just before the tidal wave of gen AI swept over legal technology, and then, in a surprising move last October, he returned to the CEO role. On today’s LawNext, Marwaha shares how he was drawn to return as the company’s leader by the “perfect storm” of forces reshaping the legal industry of AI adoption, unprecedented legal tech investment, and evolving client expectations.

In today’s conversation, Marwaha reveals how AI has fundamentally rewired Litera's internal operations – enabling his 1,000-person company to complete quarters' worth of development work in mere weeks and transforming everything from code generation to meeting management. He also shares his personal AI workflow, including how he uses Microsoft Copilot to review up to 20 meeting transcripts nightly, and explains why he requires every Litera employee to be using AI every day – and why he believes this mandate is reshaping the company's competitive edge.

In addition, Marwaha unpacks Litera's strategic shift from acquiring dozens of companies during his first tenure to now favoring internal development – a change driven largely by AI's ability to rapidly accelerate innovation cycle, and he discusses Litera's evolution into what he calls "the experience company" for law firms, and how this transformation reflects broader shifts in legal technology, where success increasingly depends on workflow integration rather than standalone solutions.

Marwaha was formerly on this podcast in 2020: LawNext Episode 68: Litera CEO Avaneesh Marwaha on Growth During A Crisis. 

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Cornell Winston, president of the American Association of Law Libraries, brings a unique perspective to law librarianship, having spent 45 years in libraries across diverse settings — from a hospital library where he started as a student worker; to the former Whittier Law School; to prominent law firms Munger, Tolles & Olson and Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe; and, for the last 24 years, as law librarian in the U.S. Attorney's office in Los Angeles.

Winston joined host Bob Ambrogi to record this interview just weeks before AALL's annual meeting in Portland, Ore., July 19-22, with the theme "Be Bold." It's a fitting theme for a profession that's undergone dramatic transformation, evolving from traditional book-focused roles to becoming essential gatekeepers and evaluators of legal technology and information.

In their conversation, Winston discusses the evolving challenges facing law librarians — from safeguarding disappearing government information to testing AI-driven legal research tools. They explore why he considers it critical for law librarians to have "a seat at the table" in their organizations, the opportunities for newcomers to the profession, and why Winston believes the profession’s future remains bright despite predictions of its demise.

Winston also shares insights on AI adoption, the importance of law librarians as strategic partners rather than just support staff, and how the profession continues to prove that while Google may find you a million answers, a librarian will find you the best one. 

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Monica Zent is a true pioneer in legal innovation and entrepreneurship. She is the founder of ZentLaw, an award-winning alternative legal services provider that broke the traditional law firm mold when she founded it in 2002. ZentLaw has since grown into a nationwide legal services provider, serving global brands and major corporations with a unique subscription-based model and flexible talent approach. 

But Monica's entrepreneurial journey extends well beyond ZentLaw. She's a serial entrepreneur who has founded multiple companies, including early internet startups in the 1990s. She's a patented inventor, legal tech founder, angel investor, and advisor to numerous startups. In fact, Monica describes herself as having a "career portfolio" – she's an entrepreneur who has carved her own path through the legal industry and beyond.

Her latest venture is the Law Innovation Agency, a collective that brings together a think tank component, consulting services, and investment connections to help organizations navigate the rapidly changing landscape of legal technology and AI. 

Throughout her career, Zent has been a strong advocate for innovation, efficiency, and diversity in the legal profession. Her articles on legal innovation, women in technology, entrepreneurship, and leadership have appeared in publications like Inc. Magazine, Bloomberg, Reuters, and the Huffington Post, and she has won numerous awards, including Corporate Counsel’s Women, Influence & Power in the Law Award in the Innovative Leadership category

On today’s show, Monica joins host Bob Ambrogi to discuss her entrepreneurial journey and her vision for the future of legal services and legal innovation. 

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On May 5, 2025, PERSUIT, a technology company that specializes in helping corporate legal departments select and manage outside counsel, announced that it had acquired Apperio, a spend-management platform for corporate legal, in a move designed to create an end-to-end workflow solution spanning everything from matter intake to invoice payment.

“This acquisition accelerates our ability to connect every point in the outside counsel workflow with intelligence,” Jim Delkousis, cofounder and CEO of PERSUIT, said at the time. “We’re not just managing spend — we’re turning it into performance.”

This week on LawNext, Delkousis joins host Bob Ambrogi to share his vision for PERSUIT and why he believes the Apperio acquisition brings “superpowers” that will help propel the company further forward in realizing that vision. The episode was recorded on the day PERSUIT announced the acquisition. 

Before founding PERSUIT nearly nine years ago, Delkousis had an accomplished career as a litigation attorney, serving as a partner at King & Wood Mallesons in Australia and later helping establish DLA Piper's Middle East practice in Dubai.

In the conversation, he will discuss how his experience on the law firm side informed his mission to shift the legal industry from time-based to value-based fee arrangements. He will also talk about the strategic vision behind the Apperio acquisition and how generative AI is accelerating the evolution of legal service delivery.

This episode of LawNext is generously made possible by our sponsors. We appreciate their support and hope you will check them out.

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"Everybody understands the world is volatile, but they don't necessarily understand why it's volatile or how to deal with it," says Sean West, cofounder of Hence Technologies and author of the new book, Unruly: Fighting Back When Politics, AI, and Law Upend the Rules of Business. "Unruly is a play on words. ... The world is kind of ‘unruling.’ The rules and norms that were developed during globalization are falling away."

On this week’s LawNext, West joins host Bob Ambrogi to discuss how the collision of geopolitics, technology, and legal shifts is creating unprecedented challenges for businesses of all sizes – and their legal advisors. Their conversation explores how businesses can turn volatility into opportunity, the importance of strategic legal counsel in this environment, and why companies of all sizes need access to geopolitical intelligence.

They also discuss Hence’s recent launch of Hence Global, an AI-powered platform designed to help businesses and their legal counsel manage geopolitical uncertainties by providing customized, real-time risk analysis and insights tailored to specific business roles and needs. West explains how the platform delivers personalized, role-specific intelligence that enables legal teams to better serve their clients and organizations in an increasingly uncertain world.

Before cofounding Hence in 2020, West was global deputy CEO of Eurasia Group, a global affairs advisory firm, where he advised CEOs, general counsel and investors on geopolitical and legal risk. He is also a lecturer at the University of California, Berkeley, School of Law.

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If you follow legal tech at all, you would be justified in suspecting that Tom Martin has figured out how to use artificial intelligence to clone himself. 

While running LawDroid, his legal tech company, the Vancouver-based Martin also still manages a law practice in California, oversees an annual legal tech awards program, teaches a law school course on generative AI, runs an annual AI conference, hosts a podcast, and recently launched a legal tech consultancy.

In January 2023, less than two months after ChatGPT first launched, Martin’s company was one of the first to launch a gen AI assistant specifically for lawyers, called LawDroid Copilot. He has since also launched LawDroid Builder, a no-code platform for creating custom AI agents. 

Beyond his work at LawDroid, Martin is an adjunct professor at Suffolk Law School, teaching "Generative AI and the Delivery of Legal Services," and is a co-founder of the American Legal Technology Awards, which will be holding its sixth annual ceremony this October in Boston.

In today's conversation, LawNext host Bob Ambrogi speaks with Martin about his journey from practicing lawyer to legal tech founder, his perspective on how gen AI is transforming the legal profession, and his insights on implementing AI in law firms and legal aid organizations.

This episode of LawNext is generously made possible by our sponsors. We appreciate their support and hope you will check them out.

• Paradigm, home to the practice management platforms PracticePanther, Bill4Time, MerusCase and LollyLaw; the e-payments platform Headnote; and the legal accounting software TrustBooks.

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