Crypto lawyer Nelson Rosario returns to the show to discuss the evolving landscape of decentralized AI and his role as General Counsel for the the Advanced AI Society (formerly known as the Decentralized AI Society), an association focused on engineering best practices, advocating for policy, fostering community, and enabling capital formation for decentralized AI startups

Nelson discusses the changing definition of decentralization, highlighting its origins in early crypto's focus on resilience and censorship resistance, and its current intersection with artificial intelligence. He explains the core reasons driving decentralized AI efforts: the potential for single service providers to control our access to AI models, computing power, and the data that underlies it all.

The conversation explores how decentralized AI aims to offer an alternative to large tech companies like Facebook, Microsoft, and OpenAI,  But Nelson also points out the challenges of competing with resource rich organizations and suggests that decentralized AI might complement existing systems by "chopping it up" into distributed components. 

The discussion also touches upon current players in the decentralized AI space, notably Bitensor and HyperCycle, and highlights the role of decentralized storage solutions like Filecoin and Arweave.

Nelson concludes by reflecting on the potentially profound societal impact of AI, likening it to other "tectonic technological revolutions" in human history. Drawing from the "Butlerian Jihad" concept in Frank Herbert's Dune, he cautions against blindly trusting AI and underscores the need for humans to remain intentional in their use of technology to prevent a decline in critical thinking and creativity.

Key Takeaways:

• Decentralization in AI aims to prevent single points of control over models, compute, and data, promoting censorship resistance.

• Decentralized AI faces challenges in competing with large, centralized tech companies due to their immense resources, but can serve as a complementary set of systems.

• DePIN (Decentralized Physical Infrastructure) is crucial for the robust existence of decentralized AI applications.

• Industry associations like the Advanced AI Society play a vital role in setting standards, advocating for policy, building community, and attracting capital for decentralized AI projects.

• AI represents a transformative technological shift, and intentional human engagement is critical to navigate its societal implications.

In this episode, Dave Siegfried discusses the company he heads, Official AI -- a company focused on helping its customers create and verify authentic AI content. Siegfried, a "recovering accountant" with a background in tech and media licensing, discusses his journey from co-founding Audiosocket, a music licensing platform, to addressing challenges in generative AI.

The conversation highlights the evolution of intellectual property protection in the digital age. Siegfried explains how Official AI empowers individuals and brands to create AI-generated images and videos with consent, credit, and compensation for the use of their name, image, likeness, and voice. He details Official AI's "vault technology," which creates a "blueprint" of a person's likeness from a small set of images, enabling authorized creation of synthetic media.

The discussion also delves into provenance technology and the Coalition for Content Provenance and Authenticity (C2PA) open-source standard, which Official AI leverages to track content origin and changes, ensuring authenticity. Siegfried touches on the challenges of verifying content on social media platforms and the future role of blockchain technology in creating immutable records of consent. The episode concludes with insights into Official AI's business model, customer base (including athletes and historic estates), and future roadmap.

Key Takeaways:

• Generative AI presents significant challenges and opportunities for intellectual property rights, particularly concerning name, image, likeness, and voice.

• Official AI aims to proactively address these challenges by providing a platform for consent-based AI content creation.

• Provenance technology, including C2PA, is crucial for verifying the authenticity and authorized use of AI-generated content.

• The legal landscape surrounding AI and publicity rights is rapidly evolving, requiring adaptable technological solutions.

• Official AI Website: Visit theofficial.ai to learn more about their platform and services.

• Contact Dave Siegfried: Dave can be reached at [email protected].

• Content Authenticity Initiative (C2PA): Explore the open-source standard for content provenance and authenticity at c2pa.org.

Editing and Production: Grant Blackstock

Theme Music: Home Base (Instrumental Version) by TA2MI

This episode is a conversation with Spellbook co-founder Scott Stevenson about intersection of technology and creativity. Spellbook is a AI contract co-pilot for transactional lawyers that plugs into Microsoft Word. Despite founding a legal technology company, Scott is not a lawyer but is computer engineer by training.

As a kid Scott was into video games and in fourth grade he talked his parents into getting him a computer because he wanted to figure out how to create them. By middle school he was building websites and eventually landed an internship at Electronic Arts.

Scott is also interested in electronic music and he launched his first start up, Mune, with a music professor, to create a whole new musical instrument that combined the power of digital music with an acoustic instrument. It was during his time at Mune that Scott started to think about building a legal tech company.

After he got his first legal bill he figured there might be a more efficient and less expensive way to do legal work. So he and lawyer buddy founded Rally, a document automation and templating engine for law firms which later begat Spellbook, but he funny thing about Spellbook, it was originally conceived as a marketing idea to generate leads for Rally.

Mune (Scott's Digital Instrument Startup)

Editing and Production: Grant Blackstock

Theme Music: Home Base (Instrumental Version) by TA2MI

A conversation with Kelly Twigger, an E-Discovery veteran and founder of ESI Attorneys and Minerva26. Kelly shares her journey into E-Discovery, stemming from the first-ever ABA event on the topic in the early 2000s, and the rapid evolution of case law and technology that led her to develop E-Discovery Assistant which has now been rebranded Minerva 26.

The discussion delves into how Minerva 26, a strategic command center for E-Discovery, curates case law, rules, checklists, and offers on-demand education. Kelly explains the reasoning behind rebranding from "E-Discovery Assistant" to "Minerva 26," emphasizing the shift from data tools to knowledge and strategic insight. The conversation also explores the current challenges legal professionals face in adopting technology, the impact of AI on the legal industry, and the need for updated federal rules of civil procedure to address technological advancements.

• Proactive E-Discovery: The importance of engaging with E-Discovery issues early in a case to save time and money, and to maximize the utility of electronically stored information (ESI).
• Technology's Transformative Power: ESI, unlike paper, offers immense opportunities to leverage technology for more efficient and effective legal analysis and fact-finding.
• Overcoming Fear and Expense: The primary barriers to technology adoption in the legal field are fear and perceived expense, which can be overcome through education and strategic planning.
• AI's Role in Legal: AI is not replacing lawyers but enhancing their capabilities by improving efficiency, accuracy, and providing valuable insights.
• The Need for Rule Updates: The rapidly changing technological landscape necessitates updates to the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure to provide clarity and consistency, especially concerning issues like control over personal devices and the use of advanced E-Discovery tools like Technology Assisted Review (TAR).

Editing and Production: Grant Blackstock

Theme Music: Home Base (Instrumental Version) by TA2MI

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Studies determined that at least one litigant does not have a lawyer in 75% of civil cases in the United States. The number is even higher when it comes to family law, domestic violence, housing, and small claims matters.

But organizations like Oregon’s Commons Law Center are doing something about it. On this episode, Kamron Graham, the Law Center’s Executive Director, talks about the not for profit law firm’s efforts to provide affordable legal assistance to people that make too much to qualify for legal aid, but don’t make enough to hire a lawyer.

The Commons Law Center helps out people facing evictions, have family law issues or need help with wills and estate planning.

Kamron initially planned to pursue a career in finance but pretty quickly figured out that her empathy and concern for others probably might not jibe with a Wall Street career. After returning to Oregon after college in the Northeast, Kamron started her career working in group homes, homeless shelters and served a stint with the United Way.

These experiences made clear to her that a professional degree might help her have a greater impact on people's lives and give her even more of an opportunity to use her education to help others. So, in her 30s she decided to go to law school. 

After law school continued her career helping the underserved, including work for Legal Aid Services of Oregon and work as a public defender.

Eventually she landed at the Commons Law Center, starting as a tenant defense attorney and ascending to the role of executive director. 

The business model of the Commons Law Center is not free legal work, but charging a sliding scale fee based on a client's income. Currently 70% of the firm's budget comes from fees. The firm is working to become 100% self-sufficient, but in the meantime to fill the gap, the firm leverages tech to streamline their processes and keep costs down. It also relies on donors, foundations, and grants. 

Learn more about Kamron.

A conversation with Bim Dave, CEO of Helm 360, a consultancy focused on helping law firms optimize technology investments. Bim shares his experience in the legal tech space, tracing his journey from a technical support role at Elite (later acquired by Thomson Reuters) to leading a consultancy dedicated to improving law firm operations through strategic technology implementation. The discussion covers the critical aspects of data migration, the benefits smaller law firms can derive from technology, key factors for successful software implementation, and perspectives on hyped versus underutilized technologies in the legal field. Bim also offers a glimpse into the potential future of law firms, emphasizing the transformative role of AI.

Editing and Production: Grant Blackstock

Theme Music: Home Base (Instrumental Version) by TA2MI

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A conversation with Yelena Shkolnik, a partner at Jump Capital, a venture capital firm with growing interest in legal tech companies. Yelena shares her journey from investment banking and entertainment finance to the world of venture capital, highlighting her focus on identifying transformative technologies.

The conversation delves into Jump Capital's investment philosophy, particularly their thematic approach and focus on Series A and B funding rounds. Yelena articulates what makes a legal tech company attractive to Jump, emphasizing the importance of demonstrated traction, a strong team dynamic, and a deep understanding of the specific challenges and opportunities within the legal industry. 

Yelena provides a nuanced perspective on the billable hour model and the potential for technology, including AI, to reshape legal workflows and access to justice. She also shares her thoughts on the necessity of legal background for founders and whether legal tech will eventually just become "tech".

Key Takeaways:

• A deep understanding of the legal industry's nuances and specific problems is crucial for attracting legal tech investment.

• While AI presents significant opportunities, the entrenched nature of law firms and the complexities of legal workflows require thoughtful and targeted solutions.

• The rise of legal operations within enterprises is driving demand for technologies that enhance efficiency and manage risk.

• The consumer side of legal tech holds significant potential for expanding access to justice.

Amanda Tuminelli, Chief Legal Officer for the DeFI Education Fund, visited the podcast in September to discuss her crypto journey, her role with the organization and its objectives.

Since then, she was promoted and is now the Executive Director of DEF which is a nonpartisan research and advocacy group working to explain the benefits of DeFi, achieve regulatory clarity for the future of the global digital economy, and help realize the transformative potential of DeFi for everyone.

Amanda goes in depth into the DEF’s areas of focus:

• Research and Advocacy

• Policymaker Education

• Messaging for Crypto Companies

• Research about Blockchain Issues and Regulations

• Providing “Legal Firepower” to Crypto Causes; and

• DeFi Project Best Practices

Amanda also discusses how lawyers can pursue a career in crypto and why that wasn’t the case a few years ago. It’s not only an option now because the industry is more mature, but also because of the openness of those in the crypto world and their desire for passionate individuals to join them. To get a job in crypto law, Amanda emphasizes the importance of understanding the technology and finding projects of interest. 

So how did Amanda get to the DEF? She started out as a securities and white collar crime lawyer, but a case came along that would change her career trajectory. She was working for Kobre and Kim, a law firm focused on disputes and investigations, when the firm was hired by a client accused of running an illegal crypto mining scheme. To get up to speed on the case and get her client out of jail, she had to dive deep into learning about blockchain technology and that is when she caught the bug. A few years later, a friend and former college friend contacted her about joining the legal team at the DeFI Education Fund and she took them up on it.

Editing and Production: Grant Blackstock

Theme Music: Home Base (Instrumental Version) by TA2MI

In this episode, author of "Systemology" and business systems expert, David Jenyns, discusses the importance of systemizing business processes, even in the nuanced field of law. Jenyns debunks the myth that legal work is too bespoke to be systemized, explaining how just like any other business, documenting legal workflows unlocks scalability and creativity. He shares his journey from digital SEO agency owner to becoming a systems expert and outlines the seven steps of his Systemology framework.

• Key Topics:

• The importance of documenting processes in any business, including legal services.

• How systemization can create space for creativity in legal work.

• The Systemology framework and its seven steps: Define, Assign, Extract, Organize, Integrate, Scale, and Optimize.  

• The role of a "systems champion" in implementing a systems culture.

• Addressing common misconceptions about systemizing legal work.

• Practical tips for getting started with systemizing processes.

• Timestamps:

• [00:00:00] Introduction and guest introduction: David Jenyns

• [00:02:00] David Jenyns's background and journey to systemology

• [00:08:00] The importance of a systems culture

• [00:12:00] Addressing the question: Why systemize?

• [00:15:00] Systemizing bespoke work, specifically in the legal field

• [00:20:00] The seven steps of Systemology

• [00:21:00] Step 1: Define

• [00:28:00] Step 2: Assign

• [00:30:00] Step 3: Extract

• [00:33:00] Step 4: Organize

• [00:37:00] Step 5: Integrate

• [00:46:00] Step 6: Scale

• [00:50:00] Step 7: Optimize

• [00:54:00] Where to start with systemizing processes

• [00:56:00] Conclusion

• Resources Mentioned:

• Systemology by David Jenyns

• System Hub software (systemhub.com)

• The E-Myth by Michael Gerber

• Technically Legal Podcast

• Systemology Podcast (Mentioned interview with Crow Estate Planning firm)

• Systemology Website: systemology.com

Editing and Production: Grant Blackstock

Theme Music: Home Base (Instrumental Version) by TA2MI

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A conversation with Sean Fitzpatrick, CEO of LexisNexis, North America, UK, and Ireland. Fitzpatrick discusses how LexisNexis is integrating AI into its products to enhance legal practice. The discussion covers the company's approach to innovation, the role of AI in improving attorney efficiency and client outcomes, and the future of legal technology. Key topics include LexisNexis's AI assistant "Protégé," the company’s philosophy on AI, and the impact of AI on the legal profession.

• [0:09-1:43] Introduction to Sean Fitzpatrick and LexisNexis's focus on AI in legal tech.
• [2:05-4:37] Fitzpatrick's career journey at LexisNexis and the evolution of the company's technology.
• [7:48-8:20] LexisNexis's philosophy on AI: to make attorneys more efficient and drive better outcomes.
• [8:20-10:24] Overview of LexisNexis's AI tools, including Protégé and its features (drafting, Vault, etc.).
• [11:46-12:45] LexisNexis's partnership with OpenAI and its benefits.
• [15:14-16:01] The importance of data in AI and LexisNexis's approach to ensuring reliability and combating hallucinations.
• [16:30-17:37] Explanation of agentic AI and its significance for the legal field.
• [19:05-19:31] The role of document management systems (DMS) and LexisNexis's integration with them, including the acquisition of Henchman.
• [24:17-25:39] Discussion on the impact of AI on legal jobs and the belief that AI will augment, not replace, lawyers.
• [27:30-28:27] Fitzpatrick's prediction on the rapid advancement and adoption of generative AI in the legal industry.