Eusebius on TimesLIVE was joined by Gauteng co-operative governance and human settlements MEC Lebogang Maile to hear why he believes he should be elected ANC provincial chairperson.

They started with a discussion about the need for modernisation in the ruling party.

McKaiser said voters of Maile’s age and younger are turned off by opaque ANC leadership contests. Maile partly agreed, but defended a mixture of some ANC traditions being maintained, and some cultural changes being introduced to engage voters not beholden to ANC traditions.

McKaiser asked him to explain his leadership ambition. While pointing out that even if he loses the contest for chairperson he would happily be seconded anywhere within the party and state, Maile said he wishes to use his experience within government and the party to turn around the provincial electoral fortunes of the ANC.

In response McKaiser said empirical data shows the ANC has failed to deliver services, and voters do not buy its promises. This is why surveys show declining trust levels in politics and towards democratic institutions.

Maile asserted that the ANC’s record in government is better than the host of the podcast was arguing. He did, however, concede that data matters less than the experiences of citizens. He said unless Gauteng residents experienced effective service delivery, it would be difficult to attract their votes.

McKaiser provocatively suggested education MEC Panyaza Lesufi might be seen as “calmer” than Maile, who many claim is “hot-headed”. The MEC defended his style of political engagement and said he is known to be “robust” because he values being “truthful” about his views and feelings.