By Sarah
5
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The podcast currently has 20 episodes available.
Anne-Marie Zanzal, a coming out coach and former chaplain, shares her profound journey of self-discovery and acceptance after coming out later in life. She discusses the complexities of navigating her sexuality while being married and raising children, emphasizing the importance of community and support for those in similar situations. Anne-Marie highlights the concepts of cognitive dissonance, internalized homophobia, and compulsory heterosexuality, shedding light on the challenges many face when reconciling their identities with societal expectations. Through her personal story and professional work, she aims to help others find their own paths to authenticity. Listeners will gain insight into the significance of kindness, shared experiences, and mindfulness in the coming out process, along with practical tips for those considering their own journey.
Anne-Marie Zanzal joins Sarah St. John to share her profound journey of self-discovery and coming out as a queer woman later in life. Having spent years grappling with her identity, Anne-Marie reflects on her early experiences with attraction and the societal pressures that led her to suppress her true self. Her candid recounting of moments filled with shame and confusion resonates with many who have felt the weight of societal expectations. The episode explores the complexities of navigating one's sexuality amidst a heteronormative environment, highlighting the importance of community support and the journey toward self-acceptance. Anne-Marie's story serves not only as a personal narrative but as a beacon of hope for those who may be struggling with their identities, emphasizing the idea that it's never too late to embrace who you truly are.
As the conversation unfolds, the dialogue shifts toward the themes of internalized homophobia and cognitive dissonance that often accompany late-in-life realizations of queerness. Anne-Marie articulates the challenges faced by individuals who have lived much of their lives conforming to societal norms, only to discover that their true selves have been stifled. Her insights into the psychological aspects of coming out, including the necessity of creating new neural pathways in the brain to accommodate a shift in identity, provide listeners with a deeper understanding of the emotional intricacies involved. The discussion also touches on how Anne-Marie transformed her experiences into a supportive framework for others, ultimately becoming a coming out coach to guide women through similar journeys.
Takeaways:
Resources
https://annemariezanzal.com/
https://wingwomenweekend.com/
https://comingoutsupport.net/coaching-program
(use coupon code Lesbihonest for 10% off any services)
💡 Guest bio
Britt went through a period of self-discovery and came out to her family after getting divorced in 2012. She was nervous but had a supportive conversation with her parents and sister, who were all understanding and accepting. Her dad even lightened the mood with a joke, showing his support. Britt is grateful for the positive experience and the acceptance of her family.
ℹ️ Introduction
Welcome to another episode of Lesbi-Honest! In this episode, Sarah St John invites her girlfriend, Britt, as her special guest. They delve into their shared interests, such as trying new restaurants, watching scary movies, and attending concerts and events. The two of them discuss experiences with online dating, the importance of meeting in person early on, and the value of effective communication in relationships. They also touch on topics like piercings, tattoos, and their frugal approach to shopping. Join them as they share their journey, from dating to building a meaningful relationship.
📚 Timestamped overview
00:00 Accepted my truth, came out to family.
05:16 Positive work relationship turned uncomfortable after disclosure.
08:08 Personal beliefs affected work, led to quitting.
10:23 Appreciation for confidence, surprise over curious inquiries.
13:08 Henna paste for temporary skin designs lasts 2 weeks.
18:35 Remote work, flexible schedule, constant communication. First girlfriend.
20:42 Frustrated, gave up, then found unexpected connection.
23:42 Balancing dates, hesitant to cancel, feeling obliged.
28:08 Divorced, got twin bed, then upgraded.
29:31 Sarah is kind, thoughtful, and fun-loving.
32:56 Both individuals enjoy planning and thinking ahead.
36:53 Seeking late life lesbians for guest appearances.
❓ Questions
1. How do Sarah and Britt's similar activities and interests contribute to their strong connection and compatibility?
2. What are the benefits and challenges of having a strong interest in foreign cuisines, such as their love for boba tea?
3. How does their shared love for planning and making itineraries impact their relationship and activities they engage in together?
4. What are your thoughts on their experiences with meeting and dating in the LGBTQ+ community, and how do they navigate the challenges that arise?
5. How does the support of friends and family, particularly in relation to coming out and facing discrimination, impact their experiences and decision-making processes?
6. In what ways do their shared values of honesty, open communication, and the importance of meeting up in person early on in online dating influence the success of their relationship?
7. How does the episode shed light on the importance of self-care and taking mental health breaks, especially in the context of online dating and navigating the LGBTQ+ dating scene?
8. How does their frugal approach to activities and their shared sense of humor contribute to their bond and shared experiences?
9. In what ways do their experiences with online dating platforms and frustrations with dating apps resonate with your own experiences or stories you've heard?
10. What are your thoughts on the idea of having a future episode with a Q&A or a game format, and how can the audience engage with the show through these interactive formats?
❇️ Key topics and bullets
Primary Topic: Introduction and Background
- Sarah St John as the host of Lesbi-Honest podcast
- Introducing Britt as a guest
- Sarah's recent divorce and living situation
- Shared activities and interests between Sarah and Britt
- Love for foreign cuisines and boba tea
- Both being planners and enjoying making itineraries
- Interest in attending church and exploring spirituality together
- Britt's ridiculous online dating experiences
- Importance of meeting in person early when dating online
- Sarah honoring a previously arranged date despite having a good first date with Britt
Primary Topic: Communication and Relationships
- Emphasis on open communication and not ghosting when not interested
- Experience of meeting in person after a week of online conversation
- Discussing the decision to honor prior dates despite interest in each other
- The importance of meeting up in person within the first week or two of talking online
- Discussing the journey of realizing and coming out as gay
Primary Topic: Personal and Professional Experiences
- Britt's journey of realizing she was gay after being married
- Coming out to family and experiencing acceptance
- Potential discrimination from a former boss after coming out
- Decision to leave a previous job due to discrimination and personal growth
- Reflecting on the hurt from not being accepted as a lesbian in certain environments
Primary Topic: Friendship and Shared Activities
- Appreciating each other's qualities and engaging in creative activities together
- Getting piercings and experiencing issues with them
- Shared love for pickles and other foods and activities
- Plans for future episodes with Q&A or game format
- Looking for more guests, specifically late-life lesbians
- Discussion on tattoos and interest in more tattoos
- Assembling Lego plants and the challenges of tiny pieces
- Frugal approach to shopping and acquiring Lego plants
Primary Topic: Online Dating and Self-Care
- Challenges of online dating, including ghosting and emotional unavailability
- Taking mental health breaks during online dating
- Frustration with various dating app experiences
- Meeting on a new dating app after taking a hiatus
- Sharing experiences with online dating and frustrations with dating apps
1. Dating Dos and Don'ts
- Importance of communication in dating and relationships. Avoid ghosting and be honest with intentions.
2. Embracing Differences
- Embrace diverse identities and beliefs to foster understanding and acceptance in relationships.
3. Self-Care in Online Dating
- Prioritize mental health breaks and self-care while navigating the complexities of online dating.
4. Building Stronger Connections
- Cultivate meaningful connections by being genuine, open, and honest in communication and interactions.
5. Overcoming Discrimination
- Addressing workplace discrimination and navigating personal growth and resilience after facing adversity.
6. Finding Common Ground
- Embrace shared interests and activities to build a strong foundation for meaningful relationships.
7. Exploring Spirituality Together
- Share meaningful experiences and explore spirituality as a couple, including attending church and discussing beliefs.
8. Navigating Online Dating Frustrations
- Strategies for managing the challenges of online dating, including emotional unavailability and ghosting experiences.
9. Frugal Fun and Creativity
- Embrace frugal shopping and engage in creative activities, like assembling Lego plants and engaging in arts and crafts.
10. Late-Life Lesbian Journey
- Share experiences and challenges of discovering and embracing one's identity as a late-life lesbian.
1. Both Sarah and Britt share a love for foreign cuisines, particularly enjoying boba tea.
2. They engage in creative activities together, such as painting and henna tattoos, and have gotten piercings together, including a conch piercing.
3. The hosts plan to do a future episode with a Q&A or a game format.
In a candid and heartfelt episode of the "Lesbi-Honest" podcast, host Sarah St John delves into the joys and challenges of late-life lesbianhood with her guest, Britt. Their conversation is filled with laughter, shared experiences, and valuable insights into love, lifestyle, and personal growth.
Embracing Late-Life Lesbianhood:
Britt's journey to realizing her true identity as a late-life lesbian is one of self-discovery and empowerment. She shares her experience of being drawn more to women than men and finding resonance in shows featuring lesbian relationships. Her candid account resonates with many late-life lesbians navigating similar paths, highlighting the significance of embracing individuality and authenticity.
Resilience in the Face of Discrimination:
Britt courageously opens up about facing discrimination in her previous workplace after coming out. Despite the discomfort and animosity she encountered, she attributes her resilience to valuing herself and her identity. Her story serves as a testament to the strength and courage needed to stand tall in the face of adversity, inspiring others to embrace their truth and seek environments where they are genuinely accepted.
The Importance of Open Communication:
Throughout the episode, Sarah and Britt emphasize the pivotal role of open communication in their relationship and beyond. Honesty and clarity form the foundation of their connection, guiding them through conflicts and challenges. Their belief in the power of transparent communication echoes a commitment to building and nurturing healthy relationships, setting a poignant example for listeners.
Creativity, Adventures, and Shared Interests:
The bond between Sarah and Britt is strengthened by a shared love for creativity, adventure, and diverse interests. From crafting, exploring haunted houses, and savoring foreign cuisines to attending events like the Texas haunters convention and Renaissance Fair, they epitomize the joy of experiencing life's varied offerings. Their vibrant energy and enthusiasm for new experiences serve as an invitation for others to embrace their passions and curiosities.
Embracing Uniqueness and Self-Care:
The episode provides an insightful glimpse into the intrinsic value of self-care and embracing one's uniqueness. Sarah and Britt advocate for taking mental health breaks during online dating, emphasizing the importance of self-care in navigating love and relationships. Their dialogue underscores the significance of honoring individual needs, nurturing inner well-being, and celebrating one's distinctive journey.
Challenges of Online Dating:
Navigating the world of online dating is not without its hurdles. Sarah and Britt recount their experiences with ghosting, emotional unavailability, and the frustrations of dating apps. Their candid discussions resonate with those who have encountered similar challenges, serving as a reminder to approach the online dating landscape with patience and self-compassion.
Looking Ahead: Q&A and Guest Opportunities:
The episode concludes with the hosts' anticipation of future content, including a Q&A or game-format episode. Additionally, they express an interest in featuring late-life lesbians as guests on the show, encouraging others to share their stories and connect with the vibrant community built around the podcast.
Closing Thoughts:
In this episode of "Lesbi-Honest," Sarah and Britt provide a heartwarming and informative dialogue that transcends the podcast medium. Their shared experiences and candid reflections celebrate the essence of late-life lesbianhood, embracing individuality, fostering honest communication, and savoring the beauty of life's diverse experiences. As their laughter fades into a sense of hope and camaraderie, listeners are left with a poignant reminder of the transformative power of self-discovery, authentic connections, and the resilience found in embracing love and embracing each unique journey.
Episode Summary
How would you feel if you discovered your true sexuality after years of marriage and starting a family? Join us as we explore the remarkable stories of Aime and Lisa, two brave women who came to terms with their lesbian identities in their 30s. They share their deeply personal journeys of self-discovery, reflecting on the societal pressures and personal expectations that initially concealed their true selves. Through their candid conversations, Aime recounts her apathy towards men and the suppressed feelings for women, while Lisa narrates her pursuit of an elusive sense that led her to her authentic self.
In a heartfelt discussion, we unravel the emotional complexities of coming out later in life. From supportive families to the arduous path of self-acceptance, Aime and Lisa offer contrasting yet equally moving narratives. They discuss the importance of self-reflection and the powerful impact of finding others who share similar experiences. We explore the courage it takes to confront internal conflicts and the eventual liberation that comes with embracing one's true identity, highlighted by an anonymous online exchange that underscores fear, vulnerability, and courage.
Transitioning from heterosexual marriages to a same-sex relationship presents its own set of challenges, and Aime and Lisa don't shy away from sharing their struggles. They talk about their early meetings filled with confusion, the difficult conversations with their ex-husbands, and the need to prioritize their children's well-being. The episode also delves into the cultural and generational hurdles of coming out to traditional Sicilian parents, and the ongoing journey of blending families with love, patience, and grace. Listen in to understand the significance of living authentically and the resilience required to build a new life together.
Chapter 1: Late-Life Lesbians
The episode begins with an introduction to Aime and Lisa, both late-life lesbians who discovered their true sexualities in their 30s after being married to men and having children. Reflecting on their individual paths, Aime recounts her apathy towards men and the struggle to suppress her feelings for women, while Lisa describes chasing an undefined emotion before realizing her true self. Their stories highlight the profound moments of clarity and the societal expectations that delayed their self-recognition.
Chapter 2: The Evolution of Coming Out
In this chapter, Aime and Lisa explore the deeply personal and emotional challenges of coming out. They share contrasting narratives of supportive families and internal battles of self-acceptance. The significance of self-reflection and anonymous online exchanges emerges as a pivotal theme, illustrating the fear, vulnerability, and eventual courage required to confront and share one's truth. The chapter emphasizes the internal conflict and liberation that comes with acknowledging and expressing one's authentic self.
Chapter 3: Navigating Marriage and Coming Out
Transitioning from heterosexual marriages to a same-sex relationship posed unique challenges for Aime and Lisa. They candidly recount their weekly meetings amidst confusion, the delicate conversations with their ex-husbands, and the priority of their children's well-being. This chapter also touches on the cultural hurdles of coming out to traditional Sicilian parents, emphasizing the cultural and generational gaps that made acceptance a lengthy and repetitive endeavor. Through their experiences, Aime and Lisa highlight the emotional highs and lows and the steps toward building a new life together.
Chapter 4: Navigating Blended Families With Grace
The final chapter focuses on the importance of love and authenticity in relationships. Aime and Lisa discuss the gradual process of blending families, including introducing children to new partners and fostering relationships among kids through activities like swimming and sleepovers. Emphasizing patience and self-compassion, they highlight the significance of taking one's time when coming out and navigating associated challenges. They stress the importance of prioritizing oneself, managing external opinions, and giving oneself grace during this transformative journey.
Transcript Highlights
The episode includes heartfelt excerpts from the conversations with Aime and Lisa. In the "Late-Life Lesbians" chapter, Lisa reflects on her apathy towards men and the struggle of pushing down her feelings for women, while Aime describes her similar journey and the eventual realization of her true self. The "Evolution of Coming Out" chapter features Lisa's story of relief and acceptance from her family and the transformative impact of an anonymous online exchange. In "Navigating Marriage and Coming Out," Lisa recounts the first time she verbalized her feelings to her husband, a pivotal moment in her journey. Finally, in "Navigating Blended Families With Grace," Aime and Lisa discuss the importance of love and authenticity in relationships, regardless of gender.
Conclusion
Aime and Lisa's story is a testament to the power of self-discovery, resilience, and the triumph of living authentically. Their journey from heterosexual marriages to a same-sex relationship, overcoming societal expectations and cultural hurdles, and blending families with grace offers valuable insights and encouragement for those on similar paths. Tune in to hear their inspiring story of courage, resilience, and the joy of embracing one's true self.
For those looking to connect further, Aime and Lisa share their Instagram handles, inviting listeners to join them on their journey and continue the conversation. This episode of the "Lesbianist Podcast" is a must-listen for anyone seeking inspiration and affirmation in their own journey towards authenticity and self-love.
Highlights
(00:00) Late-Life Lesbians
Aime and Lisa share their journeys of self-discovery, coming out later in life, and living authentically as a same-sex couple.
(11:20) The Evolution of Coming Out
Personal journeys of coming out, self-acceptance, and connecting with others who share similar feelings.
(25:41) Navigating Marriage and Coming Out
Transitioning from heterosexual marriages to same-sex relationship, facing challenges, coming out to traditional Sicilian parents, building a new life together.
(35:52) Navigating Blended Families With Grace
Love, authenticity, blending families, coming out, self-care, managing opinions, and connecting on Instagram.
Timestamps
(00:00 - 00:30) Late-Life Lesbians Embrace True Identities
(06:02 - 07:25) Feeling Lost in Life
(09:37 - 10:35) Coming Out as Gay vs. Bi
(16:19 - 18:04) Online Confession Leads to Discovery
(21:21 - 22:19) Journey to Finding Community and Happiness
(26:03 - 26:51) Relationship Progression During Separation
(28:38 - 29:50) Navigating Divorce and Coming Out
(34:37 - 36:02) Children's Reactions to Coming Out
About the Episode and Guest
Cherish Amber, a seasoned queer sex, intimacy, and relationship coach, takes us on an extraordinary journey of self-discovery and acceptance. From identifying as bisexual at 15 to embracing her identity as a lesbian, Cherish shares the challenges and triumphs that have shaped her path. She offers poignant insights into the emotional and sexual differences between relationships with men and women, underscoring the authenticity and freedom she finds in her queer relationships. Cherish's narrative illuminates the power of safe queer spaces and underscores the importance of self-acceptance.
Listeners will gain valuable insights into the intricate relationship between pleasure, consent, and intimacy within the queer community. Cherish highlights her initiatives like coming out coaching and the Pleasure Zone at pride events, which encourage open conversations about pleasure. We dissect the orgasm gap in heterosexual relationships and the unique dynamics of sex in lesbian relationships, revealing how rethinking sexual expectations can significantly enhance relationship satisfaction. Cherish's practical wisdom, drawn from long-term lesbians, offers a fresh perspective on navigating intimate connections.
Our conversation further delves into the nuances of consent, using relatable analogies like offering a cup of tea to clarify that consent can be withdrawn at any time. We discuss the concept of arousal non-concordance and the importance of focusing on mutual pleasure rather than just achieving orgasms. Cherish shares practical tips for those new to lesbian relationships, emphasizing the importance of a safe and fulfilling sexual experience. From vaginal health and the impact of diet to the dynamics of sharing sex toys in long-term relationships, this episode is a treasure trove of insights aimed at empowering individuals in their sexual journeys.
(00:00) Queer Sex Coach Shares Journey
Cherish Amber shares her coming out journey, discussing labels, trauma, and the freedom of queer relationships.
(07:40) Exploring Pleasure, Consent, and Intimacy
Pleasure, consent, and challenges in queer relationships, including disparities in sexual experiences and rethinking expectations for enhanced satisfaction.
(18:32) Navigating Consent and Pleasure in Sex
Consent can be withdrawn at any stage, arousal non-concordance can create confusion, physical responses during assault are purely physiological, and mutual pleasure should be prioritized in sexual experiences.
(27:18) Exploring Sensuality and Communication in Sex
Nature's safe and fulfilling sexual experience for new or inexperienced lesbian partners, emphasizing connection, comfort, and acceptance.
(33:46) Exploring Vaginal Health and Pleasure
Nature's diversity of female anatomy, gentle and respectful intimacy, vaginal health and hygiene, and preparation for anal play.
(45:05) Sharing Sex Toys in Relationships
Toy preferences in lesbian relationships, sharing and practicality, online coaching services, upcoming episodes and mutual promotion.
Chapters
(00:48 - 02:15) Coming Out Journey and Relationships
(04:59 - 06:15) Exploring Sexual Identity and Labels
(13:41 - 15:34) Reimagining Definitions of Sex
(21:05 - 21:40) Consent and Arousal Incongruence
(26:24 - 27:39) Importance of Post-Sex Care
(29:26 - 30:46) Communicating Feedback During Intimacy
(33:08 - 34:04) Understanding Different Sexual Preferences
(43:15 - 44:37) Reusing Sex Toys and Hygiene
Learn More About Cherish Amber:
https://www.cherishamber.com/
Listen to my guest episode on Apple:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/finding-authenticity-through-self-discovery/id1733905628?i=1000659638682
Listen to my guest episode on Spotify:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/3VGYo0hv26KEAOBGgEIXcU?si=af5e6778f5ff4e78
💡 Host bio
Sarah St John is a woman who faced a major crossroads in her life after being married for 18 years and getting divorced. Despite not having children, she had to navigate the difficult transition from a comfortable and seemingly problem-free marriage to being on her own. Throughout her marriage, she had enjoyed the financial stability and companionship that came with being married, but now she is forging a new path for herself. Her experience has given her a unique perspective on the challenges of starting over and she hopes to inspire others who may be facing similar situations.
ℹ️ Introduction
Welcome to the latest episode of the Lesbi-Honest Podcast! In this episode, our host, Sarah St John, sits down with special guest Suzette Mullen, a remarkable book coach and author who is dedicated to amplifying LGBTQ+ voices. Suzette shares her inspiring journey of coming out in her mid-fifties and her subsequent work as a book coach for memoir and nonfiction writers, particularly within the LGBTQ+ community. With warmth and wisdom, she delves into her experiences, the choices she faced, and the ongoing process of living authentically. Join us as we explore Suzette's powerful story, the complexities of coming out, the value of authenticity, and the importance of finding joy and freedom in living one's truth. Stay tuned as we uncover valuable insights and hear more about Suzette's memoir and coaching services.
📚 Timestamped overview
00:00 Transitioning to writing, becoming a book coach.
03:48 Editing nonfiction while cultivating a supportive environment.
06:43 Discovery of true self, challenging journey ahead.
10:38 Kept my sexuality secret until unbearable pain.
15:32 Acknowledging one's sexual orientation against resistance.
17:03 Christian friend questioned coming out as gay.
20:35 Being queer has risks but brings joy.
26:26 Struggling with coming out in a marriage.
27:46 Husband's support, fear, and advice for women.
❇️ Key topics and bullets
Primary Topic: Suzette's Journey and Work
- Suzette's professional background and transition to writing and coaching
- Lawyer, stay-at-home mom, social justice advocate
- Late start in writing and editing
- Suzette's memoir and book coaching focus
- Memoir about coming out in her mid-fifties
- Focus on memoir and nonfiction writers, particularly LGBTQ+ community
- Creation of a safe space for vulnerable writers
- Suzette's coming out journey
- Realization of love for a female friend
- Difficult decision about sexual identity and established life
- Balancing staying in a safe, comfortable life vs. risking it all for an envisioned life
Primary Topic: The Process of Coming Out
- The ongoing nature of coming out
- Decision-making process
- Dropping breadcrumbs of truth
- Balancing unbearable pain of lying with fairness to others
- Discomfort with labels and language
- Embracing the pride flag
- Negative experiences and reactions
- Experiences and reactions to coming out
- Different reactions from individuals in Suzette's life
- Privilege as a heterosexual person
- The cost of authenticity and potential joy and freedom
Primary Topic: Living Authentically
- Joy and freedom on the other side of coming out
- Finding a way to live fully and authentically
- Capturing the joy and glow desired for oneself
- Fear, peace, and freedom accompanying being true to oneself
- Facing crossroads and big decisions
- Holding both joy and grief in an authentic life
- Work on the second memoir, "After the Leap"
- Challenges of realizing one's identity within a marriage
- Grappling with the decision of what to do next
- Need for personal introspection and community support
Primary Topic: Sarah's Personal Experience
- Sarah St. John's personal experience and decision-making process
- Being married for 18 years and getting divorced
- Weighing the pros and cons of leaving the marriage
- Ensuring the decision was right for both parties
- Relating to the fear of coming out and finding peace and freedom in being true to oneself
7 key themes discussed
1. Coming Out: Suzette's journey to authenticity.
2. Decision-making: Weighing the pros and cons.
3. LGBTQ+ Representation: Amplifying marginalized voices.
4. Finding Authenticity: Embracing true identity.
5. Navigating Relationships: Balancing joy and grief.
6. Personal Introspection: Reflecting on life's crossroads.
7. Community Support: Providing a safe, judgment-free space.
10 lessons covered
1. Embracing Authenticity
- Embracing your true self brings joy and freedom.
2. Navigating Life Crossroads
- Fear and courage in making big life decisions.
3. Honoring Personal Journeys
- Telling personal stories as a form of self-expression.
4. LGBTQ+ Coming Out Experiences
- Reflecting on the challenges of coming out.
5. Balancing Joy and Grief
- Holding both joy and grief in an authentic life.
6. The Cost of Authenticity
- Potential loss and newfound freedom of authenticity.
7. Supporting LGBTQ+ Community
- Fostering safety and acceptance in the community.
8. Reassessing Relationships
- The impact of coming out on relationships.
9. Creating Safe Writing Spaces
- Establishing a judgment-free writing environment.
10. Empowering LGBTQ+ Voices
- Amplifying LGBTQ+ voices through writing and coaching.
❓ Questions
1. What prompted Suzette to start writing and editing at a later stage in life, and how did this journey lead her to become a book coach and author?
2. In what ways does Suzette create a safe and judgment-free space for memoir and nonfiction writers, particularly those in the LGBTQ plus community, through her mentorship program?
3. Can you share your thoughts on the process of coming out as discussed in the episode, including the decision-making process and the ongoing nature of coming out?
4. How did Suzette navigate the tangled emotions of coming out while examining her marriage and making difficult decisions about her sexual identity?
5. Suzette expresses discomfort with labels and language during her coming out process. How did she eventually come to embrace the pride flag and proudly identify as queer?
6. In the episode, Suzette discusses the difficulties of coming out, including reactions and potential negative experiences. What insights can be gained from her experience?
7. What does Suzette highlight as the potential costs and rewards of living authentically, and how does she navigate joy and grief while embracing an authentic life?
8. Sarah St. John shares her personal experience of weighing the pros and cons of leaving her marriage and ultimately deciding it was the right decision for both parties. How did you relate to her experience?
9. Suzette addresses the challenges faced by individuals realizing their non-straight sexual orientation while being married to a man. What thoughtful introspection and support does she emphasize during this difficult process?
10. If you were interested in sharing your story or seeking support from Suzette as a book coach, what resources and platforms could you access based on the information shared in the episode?
Resources
https://www.yourstoryfinder.com/
The Only Way Through is Out
💡 Speaker bios
Susan Cottrell and her husband were deeply involved in the evangelical church for 20 years, finding a sense of community and family within it. However, their perspective changed when two of their five children came out as queer. This prompted a re-examination of their beliefs, as one of their children expressed that they had tried to resist their identity but ultimately realized they could not deny who they were. This experience led Susan to become an advocate for the LGBTQ+ community within religious spaces, and she has since dedicated herself to supporting and affirming queer individuals within faith communities.
ℹ️ Introduction
Welcome to "Lesbi-Honest," where we dive into the stories and experiences of the LGBTQ community and those who advocate for their rights and acceptance. In this episode, we are joined by the inspiring Susan Cottrell, founder of Freehearts, an organization dedicated to helping families accept and support their LGBTQ children. Susan shares her powerful journey of questioning traditional religious teachings and finding a new path of embracing love and acceptance. She challenges the notion that God wants parents to reject their LGBTQ children and urges them to seek a community that aligns with unconditional love. From discussing the concept of hell as a metaphor to unpacking the church's resistance to change, Susan offers profound insights and encouragement. Join us as we explore her wisdom and experience, and embrace the message of love and inclusion.
❇️ Key topics and bullets
Primary Topic: Susan Cottrell's Work with Freehearts
- Susan Cottrell's encouragement for parents to accept their LGBTQ children
- The challenge against the idea that God wants parents to reject their LGBTQ children
- The importance of separating God from the church's teachings
- The advice for parents to seek a new community that embraces acceptance and love
- Understanding LGBTQ issues through the Freedhearts community
Primary Topic: Susan Cottrell's Personal Journey and Freehearts Organization
- Susan and her husband's experience in the evangelical church
- Founding Freehearts as a blog and expanding it to include resources, online groups, and a podcast
- Susan's ongoing work on a book about deconstruction and reconstructing faith
Primary Topic: Concept of Hell and the Church's Teachings
- The absence of the concept of hell in the Jewish Bible
- Hell as a pagan belief introduced between the Old and New Testaments
- Criticism of the traditional teaching that humans are inherently sinful and wretched
Primary Topic: Jesus' Teachings and the Church's Responsibility
- Jesus' deconstruction of empires and his focus on valuing regular people
- Jesus' criticism of religious leaders in the Bible
- The church's teaching of contempt against LGBTQ individuals, contrary to Jesus' teachings
Primary Topic: The Future of the Church Regarding LGBTQ Issues
- The potential trend towards affirmation for LGBTQ individuals within the church
- Resistance to change within the church due to reluctance to admit wrong
Primary Topic: Interpretation of Hell in the Bible
- The interpretation of hell as metaphorical rather than a literal place of torment
- The belief that the idea of a punishing God goes against the essence of God's love and the freedom of humanity
Primary Topic: Encouragement and Reassurance
- Reassurance to the queer community that feelings of rejection, inadequacy, and unworthiness are not from God
- The encouragement to trust in the God that loves them
- The emphasis to rely less on the religious community that tells them God doesn't
Primary Topic: Conclusion
- Sarah St John's appreciation for Susan's time and her thanks for reaching out
📚 Timestamped overview
00:00 Reevaluating faith and community after kids come out.
04:32 Recognizing church's contempt for LGBTQ community.
08:42 Ted talk on LGBTQ acceptance and rejection.
12:06 Reject the fear, embrace freedom; change inevitable.
14:56 God refining people through hardship, not torment.
18:43 Pagan belief, Gehenna, misinterpreted over centuries.
20:24 Fear of punishment reveals lack of understanding.
23:43 Sin contrasts with our pure, loving nature.
27:09 Challenging beliefs, finding love, trusting God's guidance.
30:27 Finding acceptance and love in a new community.
32:59 Reject fear and seek God's truth.
❓ Questions
1. How can the distinction between God's love and the teachings of the church impact an individual's acceptance of LGBTQ individuals, especially within religious communities?
2. In what ways can the concept of hell and the traditional teaching of sin affect a person's understanding of God's unconditional love and acceptance of humanity?
3. What are the potential psychological effects of being part of a religious community that teaches contempt or rejection towards LGBTQ individuals, as discussed in the episode?
4. How can the deconstruction of religious beliefs and the reconstruction of faith impact an individual's relationship with their community and their understanding of God's love?
5. What role can support communities like Freehearts play in helping parents and LGBTQ individuals navigate the challenges of acceptance and understanding within religious contexts?
6. How can the teachings of Jesus about love and inclusion be reconciled with the historical and current attitudes of some conservative Christian churches towards LGBTQ individuals?
7. In what ways can the resistance to change within religious institutions affect the future of the church's stance on LGBTQ issues and the acceptance of diverse identities within faith communities?
8. How can the reassurances of God's love and acceptance, as highlighted in the episode, help individuals in the LGBTQ community overcome feelings of rejection and unworthiness perpetuated by religious teachings?
9. What are the potential benefits and drawbacks of identifying as a Christ follower, distancing oneself from the label of "Christian" to emphasize a focus on the teachings of Jesus over institutionalized religion?
10. In what ways can the deconstruction of negative religious beliefs and the emphasis on God's pure love help individuals in their journey towards self-acceptance and understanding of their place within faith communities?
These questions can be used to spark thoughtful discussions and reflections on the key themes and insights from the episode.
Resources
FreedHearts.org
Freed Hearts Podcast
Susan's TedX Talk
💡 Guest bio
Rev. Brandan Robertson's journey to becoming a pastor began at the age of 12, when he had a conversion experience at a Baptist church in Maryland. Despite growing up in a non-religious household, he felt a distinct calling to pursue a career in the ministry. Now, at the age of 32, he has dedicated himself to fulfilling that calling and is on the path to becoming a pastor.
ℹ️ Introduction
Welcome to the Lesbi-Honest podcast, where we talk openly and candidly about the experiences of later in life lesbians. In this episode titled "Brandan Robertson.mp3," your host Sarah St John engages in a thought-provoking conversation with Reverend Brandan Robertson. They explore the impact of TikTok in spreading discussions about sexuality and religion, challenges faced by the LGBTQ+ community in religious spaces, and the importance of creating inclusive environments. Brandan shares his personal journey, challenges faced within the evangelical community, and his advocacy for an inclusive modern gospel. From the historical context of anti-LGBTQ teachings in Christianity to advice for those coming out later in life, this episode is filled with insightful reflections and empowering messages. Join us as we delve into this fascinating and illuminating conversation.
❇️ Key topics and bullets
1. Brandan Robertson's Personal Journey
- Upbringing in a non-religious environment
- Joining a Baptist church at age 12
- Attending an evangelical school in Chicago
- Experiencing resistance and threat of expulsion for questioning evangelical theology
- Being subjected to conversion therapy at his school
- Facing backlash from the evangelical community after coming out
- Finding support from other Christians and a different kind of Christianity that embraced inclusion
- Mission to help queer people find their space in the church and challenge the church to change its teachings regarding the queer community
- Family's reaction and support
- Shock from the hate received from evangelicals and Christians
2. Christianity and LGBTQ+ Community
- Historical context of anti-LGBTQ stance in Christianity
- Comparing current anti-LGBTQ teaching to ancient perspectives on same-sex male sexuality
- Harmful effects of current teachings on LGBTQ individuals
- Presence of queer individuals in scripture, citing references to eunuchs and their potential representation of nonbinary or gay people in ancient texts
- Highlighting the baptism of the Ethiopian eunuch as evidence of inclusion in the Christian church
- Acknowledging the selective acceptance of adoption by straight couples and challenging the belief that children need both a male and female parent for proper development
- Emphasizing the need to contextualize biblical teachings within the cultural norms of the time
- Challenging the idea that procreation is the sole basis for valid marriage and advocating for supporting queer people in adopting and raising children
- The Bible as descriptive, not prescriptive, and the need to interpret biblical teachings within their cultural context
- Debate on traditional heterosexual relationships being the only ones displayed in the Bible
3. Queer Representation and Marginalization
- Role of societal norms in perpetuating fear and misunderstanding of queer individuals
- Impact of lack of representation on harmful legislation and violence
- Marginalization of intersex, trans, and non-binary individuals
- The destabilization of existing societal structures and perceptions by increased visibility and exploration of gender by younger generations
- The world's tendency to simplify everything into binary choices, and why it's not helpful
4. Advocacy, Education, and Conversation
- Engaging in meaningful dialogue and representation to create change
- Starting a nonprofit highlighting the prevalence of ex-gay and conversion therapy ministries
- Challenging theological views that perpetuate fear and anger towards LGBTQ+ individuals
- The importance of creating inclusive spaces, especially for older LGBTQ+ individuals coming out
- The impact of creating spaces for sharing stories and hosting conversations in changing attitudes
5. TikTok and Evangelism
- Brandan Robertson's unexpected journey into TikTok
- Engagement in substantive conversations about progressive Christianity, theology, and spirituality on TikTok
- Viewing presence on TikTok as a form of evangelism for spreading the true good news of Jesus and providing support for queer individuals struggling with their faith
6. Advice for Coming Out Later in Life
- Importance of patience and self-acceptance for those coming out later in life
- Advice on building a chosen family for support if biological family is not accepting
- Emphasizing the value of authenticity in relationships
- Advising against engaging in debates when coming out
- Acknowledging the different circumstances and challenges faced by those coming out later in life
- Recognition of resentment and frustration among queer individuals due to varying acceptance levels across generations
- Urging for focus on personal journeys and the progress made for future generations
- Emphasizing the need for patience and understanding towards others' processes
📚 Timestamped overview
00:00 Survived conversion therapy, rejected evangelicalism, lost book deal.
05:46 Family supportive of LGBTQ+ coming out. Shocked by hate from Christians.
07:21 Christian views on sexuality have evolved dramatically.
12:01 Bible translations, homosexuality, and sexual deviancy history.
16:48 Early queer presence in the Bible affirmed.
19:13 Bible scholar explains Fulfillment of be fruitful command.
22:14 From bad to passionate about progressive Christianity.
25:16 Fear vs love, truth matters, no fear needed.
28:23 Disagreement with conversion therapy for LGBTQ+ individuals.
32:22 Cultural change takes time; fear causes harm.
33:52 Intersex and marginalized voices need to be heard.
39:33 Finding acceptance in family and community journey.
42:18 Resentment, frustration, and jealousy among queer community.
44:06 Grateful for podcast community and conversations. Thankful.
❓ Questions
1. Brandan Robertson discussed the impact of TikTok on reaching a wider audience for conversations about sexuality and religion. How do you think social media platforms can help facilitate discussions on important topics like these?
2. Robertson mentioned his plan to start a nonprofit highlighting the prevalence of ex-gay and conversion therapy ministries. What are your thoughts on the need for more visibility and awareness of the harm caused by such practices?
3. The episode touched upon the fear and misunderstanding of queer individuals perpetuated by lack of representation, leading to harmful legislation and violence. How can we create more inclusive and representative environments to combat this?
4. Brandan emphasized the importance of creating safe and inclusive spaces, especially for older LGBTQ+ individuals who are coming out later in life. What steps can be taken to support and uplift older members of the LGBTQ+ community?
5. Robertson discussed the historical context of anti-LGBTQ+ stance in Christianity and its relatively new nature. How can we encourage a shift towards more inclusive teachings within religious institutions?
6. The conversation brought up the concept of chosen families for support. How do you think the concept of chosen families can impact the lives of LGBTQ+ individuals, particularly those who may face rejection from their biological families?
7. Robertson mentioned the importance of self-acceptance and authenticity when coming out, and the need for patience in others' acceptance. What advice would you give to someone coming out later in life, considering the unique challenges they might face?
8. The discussion highlighted the value of engaging in meaningful dialogue and representation for creating change. What are some ways to facilitate these conversations in both safe and challenging environments?
9. Brandan emphasized the need to challenge traditional patriarchal and binary norms. How can we dismantle these societal structures and perceptions to create a more equitable and inclusive society?
10. The episode touched on the Bible's references to same-sex relationships and the need to contextualize biblical teachings within ancient cultural norms. How do you think this understanding can contribute to more inclusive and affirming religious practices?
Resources:
https://www.brandanrobertson.com/
https://www.lesbihonest.show/
https://www.lesbihonest.show/
ℹ️ Introduction
Welcome to another captivating episode of Lesbi-Honest! I'm your host, Sarah St John, and today we have a very special guest joining us. Please give a warm welcome to Lacy Jones, a talented musician, former ministry leader, and an advocate for LGBTQ+ rights. Lacy's journey is one filled with personal struggles, navigating religious institutions, and ultimately finding her true authentic self. In this episode, Lacy opens up about her experiences in ministry, the challenges she faced as a queer individual, and her courageous decision to come out. From her encounters with discrimination to the complexities of family relationships, Lacy's story is captivating and inspiring. Get ready as we dive into the depths of Lacy's journey and explore the power of embracing one's true identity. You won't want to miss this heartfelt and honest conversation. Let's get started!
❓ Questions
Question 1: In this episode, Lacy Jones discusses her experience with a ministry that discriminated against LGBTQ+ individuals. How do you think this type of discrimination impacts the mental health and well-being of those affected?
Question 2: Lacy shares her struggle with being labeled as a "lipstick lesbian" by a person she sought counseling from. How does this labeling affect their sense of identity and self-acceptance?
Question 3: Can you relate to Lacy's experience of feeling pressured to hide her true identity and conform to a certain image in order to be accepted by her church community? How do you think this pressure can impact an individual's authenticity and mental health?
Question 4: Lacy talks about her journey of self-discovery and therapy, which led her to realize they were in a cult. How important do you think it is for individuals to seek therapy and professional help when they suspect they might be in a harmful or manipulative environment?
Question 5: Lacy mentions the fear of losing her church family and the implications it would have for her music ministry if she were to come out. How do you think fear of rejection and losing support networks can affect a person's decision to come out and live authentically?
Question 6: Lacy emphasizes the importance of sharing stories, especially those that happen in secret or in the dark. How can storytelling and sharing personal experiences contribute to breaking the silence surrounding LGBTQ+ discrimination and fostering understanding and empathy?
Question 7: Lacy discusses the concept of "bearing their cross" and facing criticism as an opportunity for growth and refinement. How do you think facing criticism and adversity can shape a person's resilience and personal development?
Question 8: Lacy shares her experience of finding love and support in the church after growing up in a dysfunctional home environment. How can faith communities provide a sense of belonging and support for individuals who come from challenging backgrounds?
Question 9: Lacy's journey involves reconciling her faith with her identity. Have you or someone you know experienced a similar struggle? How did you navigate the intersection of your identity and your beliefs
Relevant Links:
Lesbihonest.show
💡 Guest bio
Candice's story is one of self-discovery and resilience. Growing up in a Christian environment, she grappled with her own identity and struggled with depression and anxiety. It wasn't until she reached college that she realized she was gay, a realization that completely caught her off guard. This revelation propelled her to want to help others in similar situations, leading her to pursue a career as a therapist. Drawing upon her own experiences, Candice is determined to provide support and guidance to individuals who may be facing similar challenges. She understands the pain of feeling conflicted and aims to help others accept and embrace their authentic selves.
ℹ️ Introduction
Welcome back to another episode of Lesbi-Honest, the podcast where we dive into the stories and experiences of individuals who have overcome challenges, found self-acceptance, and built fulfilling lives. I'm your host, Sarah, and today we have a special guest joining us. Please welcome Candice Zuberty, a therapist and founder of The Christian Closet, dedicated to providing LGBTQ affirming counseling, coaching, and spiritual direction.
In today's episode, Candice opens up about her personal journey into counseling, the launch of The Christian Closet, and her own discovery and acceptance of her homosexuality. We'll explore the complexities of coming out later in life, the intricacies of navigating non-affirming families, and the importance of finding a supportive community.
Sarah and Candice discuss the difference between being tolerated, accepted, and affirmed, especially in the context of churches that claim to welcome everyone. They shed light on the potential impacts of internalizing homophobia and how seeking therapy from an LGBTQ+ affirming clinician can be transformative.
Throughout this candid conversation, you'll hear stories of resilience, love, and healing. We'll also explore practical advice for those who may be struggling with their own identities or facing challenges within their families and communities.
Join us as we listen to Candice's insights, personal experiences, and the valuable lessons she's learned along the way. So grab a cup of tea, find a cozy spot, and get ready for another inspiring episode of Lesbi-Honest.
📚 Timestamped overview
00:00:42 Intersecting story, self-acceptance, and painful struggle.
00:06:42 Bible college friends, disagreement, reconciliation, acceptance.
00:08:57 Mom feared hell, dad's heart attack. Burdened secrecy, painful distancing. Relief in death desired.
00:13:23 Build a supportive team, find independence, be brave.
00:17:01 Fear of being discovered on podcast.
00:20:10 Supporting LGBTQ+ individuals navigating relationships, spirituality, and self-acceptance.
00:21:20 Rediscovering and healing spiritual path to God.
00:27:05 Seeking counseling for religious affirmation and acceptance.
00:27:56 Important distinction: Tolerate vs Celebrate LGBTQ+ individuals.
❇️ Key topics and bullets
Primary Topic: Introduction and Background
- Introduction to the podcast episode and the guest, Candice Czubernat
- Curiosity about the difference between being welcoming or accepting versus affirming in the context of churches
Primary Topic: Candice's Journey and The Christian Closet
- Candice's journey into counseling and the launch of The Christian Closet
- Her personal experience in discovering her own gayness
- The focus of The Christian Closet on helping individuals heal from spiritual abuse and trauma, and coming out to non-affirming families
- The prevalence of individuals coming out later in life due to growing up in a Christian context
Primary Topic: Personal Experiences and Relationships
- Candice's personal experiences with being in the closet and hiding her true self
- The importance of finding safe spaces and supportive people in one's life
- Candice's relationship with her best friend in Bible college and their simultaneous discoveries of their gayness
- Initial negative reaction from the friend and a year of no communication, followed by a change of heart and a loving relationship
- The friend's eventual coming out as well
Primary Topic: Family Dynamics and Coming Out
- Candice's mother's strongly negative reaction to her coming out, motivated by concerns about her spiritual well-being
- Her mother asking them not to tell her father about her sexuality
- Her decision to keep her sexuality a secret from her father for five years
- The tension and distance caused between her and her mother due to the secrecy
- Her relief at the prospect of her father passing away to fully be themselves
Primary Topic: Building a Support System and Coming Out
- The importance of surrounding oneself with supportive people who celebrate and cheer them on
- Suggestions for building a support system, such as making new friends, joining support groups, or finding a therapist
- Advice for individuals who are financially dependent on their family or living with them to find alternative means of providing for themselves
- Encouragement to come out in whatever way feels easiest, as any way of coming out is brave
Primary Topic: The Christian Closet's Work and LGBTQ+ Inclusivity
- Candice's work with individuals in same-sex or queer relationships, helping them navigate love and communication
- Support provided to individuals raised in conservative versions of Christianity, struggling with spirituality
- The importance of addressing LGBTQ+ identity issues in therapy and seeking support from LGBTQ+ clinicians
- Therapeutic work focusing on healing spiritual selves and building a connection with inner spirit for healing
Primary Topic: Self-Acceptance and Coming Out Later in Life
- Candice's personal journey of self-acceptance and realization that everyone had been wrong about her
- The belief in God's love and blessing for queer individuals
- The launch of The Christian Closet to provide support and help those who may not need to suffer
- Challenges and difficulties of coming out later in life and comparing oneself to peers
Primary Topic: Negative Impact of Being in the Closet
- Discussion of the energy and anxiety drain associated with being in the closet
- Personal experiences of fear and anxiety when photos were taken while closeted
- The constant vigilance and energy required to hide one's true identity
- Understanding and compassion for those who choose to remain closeted, particularly with family
Primary Topic: The Transformative Experience of Coming Out
- Candice's comparison of the fear before coming out to a potential death or falling off a cliff
- The belief that facing and moving through this fear can lead to transformative experiences in other areas of life
- Her gradual process of coming out to different individuals in her life
- The positive shift in acceptance from her family after a key family member fully accepted her
- Celebration of her engagement and wedding, attended by the entire family and still talked about
Primary Topic: Wrapping up and Final Thoughts
- Recap of the topics covered and highlights from the podcast episode
- Final thoughts on self-acceptance, finding support, and the importance of celebrating and affirming LGBTQ+ identities
- Encouragement for listeners to seek support and connect with their inner spirit for healing and self-discovery
- Closing remarks and thank-yous to the guest and the listeners
❓ Questions
1. How does the Candice's experience of being in the closet and hiding her true self resonate with your own experiences or those of people you know?
2. In what ways do you see her journey towards self-acceptance and coming out as a transformative experience?
3. How do you think her experience of being in a Christian context affected her struggle to accept her sexuality?
4. Can you relate to her conflicted feelings about her relationship with God? How do you think spirituality and sexuality intersect in your own life?
5. What are some of the challenges that individuals who come out later in life face, particularly when comparing themselves to peers who have already achieved certain milestones?
6. How do you think being in the closet impacts one's mental and emotional well-being? Can you share any personal experiences or observations?
7. Do you agree that being tolerated is different from being accepted and affirmed? What are some examples of the differences between the two?
8. How can therapy or counseling help individuals on their journey towards self-acceptance and understanding their spiritual beliefs, especially when it comes to exploring their LGBTQ+ identity?
9. Can you think of any strategies or resources that could support individuals who are financially dependent on non-affirming families or living with them, but seeking to assert their true selves?
10. How does Candice's story of coming out and gaining acceptance from her family and loved ones inspire you to be more open and authentic in your own life?
Resources
TheChristianCloset.com
AffirmingTherapy.org
LesbiHonest.show
Apply to Be a Guest on the Show
Leave a Voicemail for the Show
Lesbi-Honest TikTok Channel
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