Historian and sinologist Jeffrey Wasserstrom is the Chancellor's Professor of History at the University of California, Irvine, and the author of many books, including The Oxford Illustrated History of Modern China, China in the 21st Century: What Everyone Needs to Know, and most recently, The Milk Tea Alliance: Inside Asia's Struggle Against Autocracy and Beijing.

We chatted to him about the Milk Tea Alliance, and America. This was recorded on the resonant date of June 4, 2025, before the No Kings protests in the U.S. of June 14.

The Rhyming Chaos podcast is produced by Jeremy Goldkorn and Maria Repnikova, and edited by Cadre Scripts. The theme music is Paper Boy, composed and performed on the guzheng by Wu Fei. Our closing music is Erik Satie’s Gymnopédie No. 1, arranged and performed by Wu Fei. Our cover art is by Li Yunfei.

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