This week Ana Marie Cox (@anamariecox) talked with journalist Eli Saslow (@elisaslow) and Derek Black (@RDerekBlack) about Derek Black’s transformation from a white nationalist to an antiracist activist. They began with current news and what Trump means for the rise of white nationalism into everyday life. Derek then talked about his background growing up as a white nationalist, and what it took for him to change his ideology. They continued with mistakes made by the media and within American culture that contributed to the normalization of white supremacy. They ended with a discussion of what it takes to change someone’s mind, and a sense of hope that it is possible.

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