Mental health missionary Sarah Tatarski joins Alyssa on this week’s episode to discuss options for when weekly outpatient therapy just isn’t enough. Sarah discussed her experiences with alternative treatment options such as partial hospitalization programs, ketamine, and alpha-Stim. She also provides new perspectives on navigating some of the major flaws in the mental health system.
Sarah Tatarski's Instagram: @vulnerableandnotafraid
Adult Children of Alcoholics & Dysfunctional Families
Info on the Alpha-Stim device
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Transcript:
Alyssa Scolari:
Hey everyone, this is just a quick note that Sarah wanted me to hop on and let you all know. Sarah's mom was not her abuser, so her father was an alcoholic and he was her main abuser when he was alive. Sarah and her mom have had an enmeshed relationship since she was young.
Alyssa Scolari:
That caused her mother to be a trauma trigger for her, so she just wanted me to come on and clarify that just so you can know who is who and didn't you know, think that somebody was her abuser when in fact they were not.
Alyssa Scolari:
So, I hope you enjoy this episode.
Alyssa Scolari:
Hi, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Light After Trauma podcast. I am your host, Alyssa Scolari, and we have a guest episode today. It is so rare that we have guests on the podcast these days, but there is a special person who I met just like Jennifer Burns, which Jennifer, if you haven't listened to older episodes, Jennifer is the woman who we talked about crystals, with and how crystals have been used and have helped her with her trauma recovery.
Alyssa Scolari:
I met Jennifer just because she was a podcast listener and we connected. And we started talking about a topic that we were really passionate about. And a similar thing has happened with today's guest. Her name is Sarah Tatarski. And I met Sarah basically, through the podcast. She was a listener of the podcast, reached out and we started talking via Instagram.
Alyssa Scolari:
Now, Sarah is an artist, an aspiring entrepreneur, a cat mom, and a mental health missionary. She recently graduated from college in May of 2021, and has been on a mission since then to work through her core wounds from childhood and early adult life.
Alyssa Scolari:
After four years of only doing CBT and feeling ready to be deeply challenged, she tried more intensive therapeutic approaches. These include trauma focused treatment centers, family therapy, EMDR, ketamine for major depressive disorder, and the use of a cranial electrotherapy stimulation device called Alpha-Stim.
Alyssa Scolari:
Sarah recently started a mental health focused Instagram called Vulnerable and Not Afraid, to share her recovery from trauma and educate people on other therapeutic options that have personally helped her. Now, we are talking about a really important topic today, and I know I say that shit every week. So, forgive my redundancy, but you know how I love all things, mental health.
Alyssa Scolari:
But I think that this is particularly, important because for the last two years on this podcast, we have spoken about therapy and treatment pretty much from like a standard outpatient setting. So, how to process things when you're going to therapy once a week or twice a week in your standard outpatient setting. And that isn't always enough. And there certainly, have been many times where it wasn't enough for me. And I know that there are many people out there that hasn't been enough for either including Sarah.
Alyssa Scolari:
So, we are talking about different treatment options for when you find yourself in a place where therapy once a week or twice a week is just not enough. So, with that said, I will stop talking and I'm going to turn it over to Sarah. Hi, Sarah, welcome to the podcast.
Sarah Tatarski:
Hello. I'm excited to be here.
Alyssa Scolari:
I'm really excited to have you. I know we were actually, supposed to record like a week ago, and then I had COVID and lost my voice and sounded like not even remotely myself. So, thank you for rescheduling and bearing with me. Let's start out by saying, or by me asking you, like, tell me what even makes you passionate about this? If you're comfortable, can you tell me about a little bit of your own experiences?
Sarah Tatarski:
Yeah, in regards to seeking mental health treatment or my trauma or all of it? What particularly?
Alyssa Scolari:
Yeah. I think, you have a lot of experience and knowledge on alternative forms of treatment. And so, I guess what my question would be is like, did you get to a certain point in your life where you were like, "Hey, just going to therapy once a week isn't enough for me?" How did you know what was going on in your life? Things like that.
Sarah Tatarski:
Yeah. So, I've had a couple different, I guess you could say breaking points in my life. The first one was March 2019, and I had to take a medical withdrawal from school, but I instantly, felt better not being in school. The stressors were gone. I said, "Okay, cool. I can manage this."
Sarah Tatarski:
And I trudged along December 2020 came, I had this dramatic memory that I didn't remember resurface. I was living back at home with my mom and I was just spiraling like crazy. And that's when my... The first time my therapist said, "Sarah, you need to go to this trauma center." And I said, "Eh, we'll see." I told her the memory finally. And then, I felt better again.
Sarah Tatarski:
And so, I just trudge along, trudge along and finished school. And then, I just completely fell apart because post grad depression is real. I don't think people talk about it enough. They're like, "It's so fun. Oh, my gosh, congrats." And I said, "I'm miserable. And I have no path anymore. And I don't know what the hell I'm doing." And a lot of my friends went through this too, especially us graduated in 2020 and 2021, we were so burnt out from COVID and the huge changes we had to go through.
Sarah Tatarski:
So, for me, I said, "Oh, I'm going to take a break." And that break turned into me, spiraling constantly. And it just got to a point in end of June where I was not really eating, I wasn't really sleeping. That same memory came nagging at my brain. And my therapist said, "You need to forego your income and just go to a trauma center." And I said, "Okay."
Alyssa Scolari:
Ah, that's a hard thing to hear. That's a really hard thing to hear.
Sarah Tatarski:
Yeah, it just got to the breaking point then. And I had moved back home again in May 2021 with my mom, which didn't realize back then, but she was a huge trigger, and I didn't quite grasp why she was. And until later after all these therapies I've done, but I was just absolutely miserable. And I said, "Okay, you know what? I'm finally going to do this. I have the ability to not work. I have really good insurance. I'm going to take advantage of this."
Sarah Tatarski:
And so, that was the line where I was, I'm just miserable every day in my life to the point where I don't know if I can lip. So, that was my breaking point in June 2021.
Alyssa Scolari:
So, you're saying like you were at that point where you were like, "I just don't even know if I want to be alive anymore? Like, my safety might be on the line?
Sarah Tatarski:
Yeah, I think we never struggled with SI, suicidal ideation much, but it was getting to that point where I just felt like, I don't know, can I go forward in life? And that's what motivated me to get different help and more intense help.
Alyssa Scolari:
Okay. So, I really appreciate that you said that, because I think it's very important to highlight that this country makes it seem like in order. I mean, I guess we can just also start out by saying that the system for higher levels of care, isn't the greatest, it's not the greatest.
Alyssa Scolari:
And so, on one hand, we shame people from talking about their suicidal thoughts, for fear of them getting locked up. But then, on the other hand, when people have suicidal thoughts, they are often told when they go to a hospital and they want treatment. They're often told, "Well, you actually, have to make an attempt," in order to be hospitalized or in order to not even just be hospitalized, but in order to eventually, get to a treatment center.
Alyssa Scolari:
So, I think it's really, important that you said, "You know what? I'm not necessarily suicidal. I'm not necessarily a danger to myself, but I'm not okay with the quality of life that I currently have. And therefore, I'm seeking alternative forms of treatment," because you don't have to get to a point where your life is on the line to decide, to seek different forms of treatment. I love that you said that.
Sarah Tatarski:
Yeah. And definitely, I didn't want to get to that point. And it was teetering between that. I've met friends at my trauma centers who are, have attempted, were attempting, got transferred from intensive care to where I was. And yeah, I don't think it's acknowledged enough that you don't have to be either attempt or actively, planning to seek help because I didn't want to get to that point. I never want to. And I hopefully, never will.
Alyssa Scolari:
You had mentioned a little while ago that you realized after different types of treatment, that your mom was a trigger for you. And one of the questions I have is, was it difficult for you to go to a treatment while living, because you had lived with your mom while doing some of this treatment, was it difficult to live with somebody who is a trigger while going to a treatment? Because I think a lot of people can probably, relate to that.
Sarah Tatarski:
Yeah, it was a whole another challenge. I'm in my trauma for, let's see, the first trauma center I went to, I was there from 9:00 to 4:00 p.m. I did therapy three times a week individually. We had groups all day, trauma groups, four times a week and relapse prevention, which was incredible, which by the way, I had no idea what relapse prevention was. And I said, "I don't do drugs."
Sarah Tatarski:
So, I just laughed it off until I got there and said, "Oh, I have a lot of toxic behaviors that are not related to alcohol or any kinds of other drugs." So, life changing.
Alyssa Scolari:
Yes.
Sarah Tatarski:
But just doing that all day and having the realizations that I was having. And then, I come home... And by the way, I didn't mention this. I'm in my childhood house where I experienced my trauma, and that is where I'm living right now.
Alyssa Scolari:
Oh, my... Okay.
Sarah Tatarski:
That's a whole another level of, I'm living with a trigger, I'm living in a trigger, and I came home every day and I'm like, "Ah." I'm like running around, like a chicken with its head cut off. I'm freaking out. I can't ground myself. I can't focus on my treatment. And the only relief I got was when I stayed with my friend for a whole week and I was like, "Oh." I can come back, and I just lay in bed. I'm like, "I'm so happy and relaxed." But it was extremely challenging. I don't recommend it. I recommend anyone doing what I did.
Alyssa Scolari:
Yeah.
Sarah Tatarski:
I mean, living with your trigger and living in the house you were abused. I recommend trauma treatment. Absolutely. Of course, I wouldn't be on here otherwise recommending it. But it made the process that much harder because there was a point, I told my therapist, I said, "I just want to be a prostitute right now. And move out of my house." And he's like, "Sarah, no." And I'm like, "But that's how I feel." And he said, "I'm not going to act on it."
Sarah Tatarski:
But that's how overwhelmed I am right now. It's like, I will do anything to get out of my house. Of course, I never acted on it. But that's the thought...
Alyssa Scolari:
Right. So, the point where...
Sarah Tatarski:
... that happened.
Alyssa Scolari:
... you're considering. Yeah, you're considering like prostitution or sex work to get out. You're like, "I will do whatever I have to get out of this place."
Sarah Tatarski:
Which is, there's nothing wrong with sex work. It's just not my... I have too much trauma to engage in that field sex workers. You'll do whatever you want. But yeah, that's just to the point. I was so vulnerable that that's what I was just willing to do. And that's not healthy situation to be in.
Alyssa Scolari:
I mean, right, exactly. It would be ideal. Again, like you said, there's no issue with sex workers. It's feeling like you're trapped and you're backed into a corner to the point where your only way out is considering an option that you know would be retraumatizing for you. That's when you know all the alarm bells are sounding, you're like, "Okay, I need to do something here."
Sarah Tatarski:
Exactly. Yeah, it was very intense.
Alyssa Scolari:
So, then can you talk a little bit about, I guess, let's go in specifically, like where should we start? What type of treatment did you start with? Because I know you've done a couple of different things.
Sarah Tatarski:
Yeah, there were a lot of things I've done the past year. So, I'll just briefly summarize. And then, if you want to ask more specific questions, we can go from there. But the first thing that I did was in July 2021, I went to a partial hospitalization program at a trauma center here in New Orleans called River Oaks, recommended fully.
Sarah Tatarski:
So, I wasn't living there. I was there from 9:00 to 4:00 like I had mentioned. You're just there during the day, you don't live in the hospital. It's scary inside. I would not want to... Not wanting to stay there. I did not want to stay there. But...
Alyssa Scolari:
Scary like hospital setting type like?
Sarah Tatarski:
Yes, it was cold and there were not a lot of lights, and you went outside or not a lot of windows, and you went outside for like 20 minutes a day. It was like jail. So...
Alyssa Scolari:
Yes, so many partial hospitalizations, like programs are like that. I've been to one myself and it feels like jail. And I'm like, "Why aren't these a little bit happier? You're trying to help people with their mental health, why do we feel like we're locked up?"
Sarah Tatarski:
Exactly. So, I did that. And then, once I was done with that program, I started seeing a therapist for EMDR. And then, in December 2021, I went to a residential treatment program called Innova Grace in San Antonio, Texas. And I was doing a lot of EMDR there. I used the [inaudible 00:14:40] bed. I used the Alpha-Stim, which I'm wearing right now, like I mentioned earlier.
Sarah Tatarski:
And after that, continued to do EMDR, that's what I'm doing with my therapist right now. I started ketamine for major depressive disorder. And now, I'm using the Alpha-Stim again. And forgot to mention on top of that, the past, however many months it's been since August 2021. So, nine months, I've been in family therapy.
Sarah Tatarski:
So, I'm doing 10 different therapies. And also, I recently, joined Adult Children of Alcoholics group and dysfunctional family. So, I've been going to that support group about every two weeks to every week. So, if you want me to expand on all of that, that's a lot of different treatments that I just mentioned. So, happy to talk about any of it in more detail.
Alyssa Scolari:
Yes, I have questions. I think the first question is, how did you end up getting involved in, especially in a post COVID world, in Adult Children of Alcoholic support group, because I think that there are many people out there who are listening, who would be very interested in that.
Sarah Tatarski:
Yeah. So, there are always meetings everywhere in the country and world at all times. And a lot of them are on Zoom now, too, which is great. So, you can just hop on Zoom at any time. And for me, I prefer in-person group. So, I go to the one at the church near my house at 5:00 p.m. on Sundays.
Sarah Tatarski:
And the way to get involved is to just go to their website, look up Adult Children of Alcoholic/dysfunctional families. And if you want to go to in-person meeting, you can just look up your town and see where it is. And if you don't want to go in-person, you can join literally any group, like from what I've seen online, probably, at least half of them are hybrid.
Sarah Tatarski:
So, you can go in-person if you want, you can go in Zoom if you want. But oh, when they read the laundry list, I don't know if you've ever read that. It's the 14 traits that you can have as an adult with having a dysfunctional family or an alcoholic. And I fit all 14 traits. So, that's when I knew I belonged.
Alyssa Scolari:
Oh, I don't think that I've ever read that before, but I bet it would be very jarring for me.
Sarah Tatarski:
You will be surprised. And when I say all 14 traits, I don't mean I have those now. I mean, at some point in my life, I have all 14 of them. So, even if you have one, I'm pretty sure, they're like, if you have one of these traits, you are welcome here.
Alyssa Scolari:
Wow. Okay. And for the listeners out there, I will link that in the show notes, the website that you can go and you can check it out because I think it's very important and I know that a lot of you can relate. So, okay, cool. So, thank you for that.
Alyssa Scolari:
So, now question about, so in terms of EMDR, I have, I think... So, I'm going through EMDR right now and I've been open about my experiences, both on my Instagram and I've shared a little bit on the podcast and we've also had people come on and talk about EMGR.
Alyssa Scolari:
I guess, the main question I have for you about EMGR because for those of you out there who don't know what it is, I talk about it in depth with a licensed clinical social worker. Her name is Melissa Parks on the podcast, and you can feel free to go and check that out. It is a really fantastic treatment for trauma that focuses on rewiring your nervous system, like your brain. So, for EMGR, did you find that was particularly helpful for you?
Sarah Tatarski:
It's definitely helped. It's not perfect. Of course, no treatment is perfect, but I've honestly, been only able to work on and am working on two memories. But the thing about these specific memories I'm working on is that, they hold a key to other things that I can't remember. And that's why, my therapist says we're going to keep working on these two. And I'm like, "No, I want to be done with them."
Sarah Tatarski:
But it's definitely, helped me to calm down in regards to my body not being as reactive. And I've noticed that the first memory that really resurfaced after about eight years and that drove me to get the help that I needed. My reaction to it has gone down a lot.
Sarah Tatarski:
My bodily reaction, I used to like throw up. I used to not eat. And now, it will come up and I'll be like, "Okay, deep breath. It's okay. You're safe like, that's not happening right now." We've talked... I've talked about it many times. I opened up to friends, I went up to multiple therapists.
Sarah Tatarski:
And so, I'm able to calm myself down. On the past, I literally, I would line around like running around my house. I don't know what the heck I'm doing. I'm scared, all this stuff. So, I significantly reduce my reactions while, and I don't want people to think that it gets rid of the memory. I think some people are like, "I want to get rid of my memories." And I'm like, "That's not how it works." But it reduces your bodily reaction to it.
Sarah Tatarski:
And I definitely notice, like I said, I'm not violently reacting, like I used to in the past. So, I found relief with it. My brain also likes to block me thinking about these two particular memories because there's some of the most intense memories I have. But as I continue to work on it, I'm able to be less reactive and process it with my therapist.
Alyssa Scolari:
Yeah, yeah. No, and I think that's ultimately, right. There's no such thing as a perfect treatment. But EMDR, I think is supposed to be beneficial at just like relaxing your nervous system. So, that like hyper vigilance isn't there as much. All right. So, can you talk about Alpha-Stim, and then there was one other... What did you say in addition to Alpha-Stim?
Sarah Tatarski:
I've been doing ketamine for major depressive disorders. So, there's that, in addition to the Alpha-Stim, family therapy, and then my trauma centers, and EMDR.
Alyssa Scolari:
Okay.
Sarah Tatarski:
Which is all like, they're all interconnected, anyway.
Alyssa Scolari:
Right, right. And can you talk about Alpha-Stim? Because I think that's a very new term. I'm not even familiar with Alpha-Stim.
Sarah Tatarski:
I am shocked at, I actually, spoke with a psychiatrist a couple of weeks ago. He monitors me when I'm doing ketamine. And I told him about it. He said, "I've never heard of that." And I'm like, "Whew, this is alarming." I'll go into details about it, but I'll give you a little bit of a history because I was wondering, why is this not talked about every single day? Why is this not open on the market? And I'll tell you this.
Sarah Tatarski:
So, I read about the history of Alpha-Stim. Yes, I'm a nerd. I read the little pamphlet that came with it. But so, the way that it works is, it uses biophysics and biophysics used to be taught in medical school up until the 20th century. And then, the chemistry took over and they stopped teaching biophysics. Of course, we know that pharmaceutical industry has a huge power over everything in this country.
Sarah Tatarski:
And so, I found that interesting that they used to teach biophysics, but now they don't. And that's probably, why it's not really mainstream as you would want to call it. But I'll just read you exactly, what they say from the website, because I don't want to give any misinformation to y'all.
Sarah Tatarski:
So, the way that it works is, it's cranial electrotherapy stimulation, and it uses small electrical currents to stimulate certain brain regions. And these currents mimic the electrical activity naturally occurring in the brain, which in turn regulates the electrical part of the brain's electrical chemical signals. And this is how it helps you to get piece of calm. It basically, regulates you without any drugs, just pure biophysics, which our body is... It's just a huge electrical network.
Sarah Tatarski:
And that's how they use the power of our body to heal with the Alpha-Stim. And you have to use it consistently, like every day over months to really get the full benefits. But you feel benefits within even like a day, because I hadn't used it in three months since I was at my last trauma center, and I got in the mail about two weeks ago. I put it on my ears and after, I was like, "I feel so much better already." And I forgot how magical this thing is. So...
Alyssa Scolari:
Wow. Wow.
Sarah Tatarski:
It's been incredible. I'm sleeping better. I've had one migraine the past 11 days. I usually, get them every single day of my life. So, I'm not making the stuff up whenever I would never tell anybody to go buy a medical device if it didn't work. But I just feel so much better. I feel more rested, because I have chronic pain due to my trauma, and I just feel a lot more content with the past two weeks, which is hard for me to say, usually.
Alyssa Scolari:
I mean, yeah, that's incredible is this. So, when you say like, I have this and I put it on my ears, like, is it, what is it? Are they just like little like sensory, like clips you put on your ears and you have like a little machine around your neck?
Sarah Tatarski:
Yeah, it's literally this small.
Alyssa Scolari:
Wow.
Sarah Tatarski:
Nobody can see it. It's about the size of like a palm, or like a hand depending on how big your hands are. I know, I have a little... I'm small. So, my hands are a little small, but it's about the size of my hand. And the way that it works is that, you put a solution on your ears, and then you clip the electrodes onto your ear. And it just sounds little, little electrical signal to your ear.
Sarah Tatarski:
And so, you feel this very mild little prick to your ear, but it doesn't hurt. And that's it. You use it at your house. You can use it on an airplane. You can use it wherever you want to use it. It's just like the size, even smaller than the iPhone. So, it's so easy to carry around if you need it to use it anywhere.
Alyssa Scolari:
And is there like, is it something that like insurance covers, or do people just buy it out of pocket? Do they have to go through like a therapist or a treatment center or anything like that?
Sarah Tatarski:
So, from what I know, the only insurance that covers it is TRICARE through the military. And only if you're active duty, will they pay for it in full, which is...
Alyssa Scolari:
Okay.
Sarah Tatarski:
... annoying. So, without insurance, it costs $840. And while it sounds like a lot, the amount of money I've spent going to doctors asking, "What is wrong with me? Why am I in so much pain?" The amount of days I've missed work, the amount of days I've missed out on life, the $840 is beyond worth it.
Alyssa Scolari:
Yes.
Sarah Tatarski:
And some insurances may cover it. I don't have that answer. My insurance is really good. And they said, "No." They outright said, "We're not even going to give you money back." And I said, "That's really frustrating." And $840 is a lot for people. It's a lot for me. But I got to a point where I was just breaking down and I was like, "I can't do this. I cannot live like this every day of my life."
Sarah Tatarski:
And so, I took the plunge, I ordered it, I use it twice a day, and I just, I feel so much better. I can't even emphasize. I wish I could show data to show how much less pain I'm in. But like I said, they have a nine out of 10-success rate, and they've been studying this for over 40 years. So, this isn't something that's new to the market. It's not, "Oh, in 2020 we invented this device." It's 40 plus years of research.
Alyssa Scolari:
Yeah. And it's infuriating because it's also one of those things where it's like, like you said earlier, why is this not talked about more? And it's like, "Well, because it's so successful." And when it's so successful, who suffers big pharma because people require less and less treatment and medication. And therefore, if you heal, you aren't going to be paying as much money on other forms of treatment like meds. It's very, it's no surprise that it's one of those things that's kept hush, hush because...
Sarah Tatarski:
Absolutely. Absolutely. Because I'm not going to go too much on the tangent because then we would talk for hours. But the big pharma is based on a subscription model. They want you to be sick for your entire life. Why would they not want you to be? They want you to suffer. So, they make money. And that's why I think, insurances aren't going to cover it because they are very much tied into big pharma, of course.
Sarah Tatarski:
And so, I tell everybody since I got it the past two weeks, anyone that I meet or who was in my life, I'm like, "Pay the $840 if you can, it is worth every dime." And I would never tell anybody to buy something if I really didn't believe it, because that's not like a $100. That's 840. But...
Alyssa Scolari:
Yes.
Sarah Tatarski:
... Like I said, I mean, I'm sure the amount of us who've been through trauma or even if you haven't been through significant amount of trauma, you probably, have some amount of pain from being on your computer all day. So, I just recommend it to anybody if you're able to afford it or, save up to get it. It's really, been incredible. And I'm so lucky that my trauma center, I went to in December to February had access to the Alpha-Stim for me.
Alyssa Scolari:
Yeah. That's incredible. And I will also link the website, the Alpha-Stim device on the show notes, so you can check that out. And then, so let's talk about ketamine because this is one that I am more familiar with, but I have not spoken with anybody who has gone through it. So, can you talk about like what it is and what your experience is with it?
Sarah Tatarski:
Yeah. So, I will say there are different kinds of ketamine treatment. There's the nasal spray, which I do. There's the shot and there's also IV. And I don't know which form is the most intense, but I know that the IV one is you get a very strong high and it's very strong, with Spravato, which is the ketamine that I do.
Sarah Tatarski:
I do two nasal sprays, one in each nose, and you can go up to three sprays or three doses. Sorry, I don't know how many sprays it is, but I do the two. Some people do three doses. I'm very sensitive to drugs in general. So, I was like, "Let's go with the lower one. I don't want to get too high." I would like to see how I feel first.
Alyssa Scolari:
Yeah.
Sarah Tatarski:
So, I started looking into do ketamine last fall and my insurance rejected me. I don't know how I don't qualify for it. I would just spent two months at a trauma center. I don't know how they... Apparently, they didn't want to cover it. I struggled with major depressive disorder.
Sarah Tatarski:
So, I felt really upset. And then, so kindly the clinic I went to called me and I said, "You know that the Johnson& Johnson Patient Assistance Foundation could help cover you, if you qualify, if you don't make enough money, or if you don't, there's some income bracket level that I'm not 100% sure what it is. And if your insurance denies you, they could consider covering you for up to year, and then renew you.
Sarah Tatarski:
And so, I applied. I'll be honest, I had been making $0. I'd just come out of a trauma center. So, I definitely knew I would qualify because one, my insurance rejected me. Two, my income was at zero at that point.
Alyssa Scolari:
Right.
Sarah Tatarski:
And they sent me a card, and for a full year they will cover it. And all I have to pay is, I think a $25 copay each time because out of pocket, it's like $250. So, I'm extremely, lucky that the J&J Patient Assistance Foundation was covering me. And yeah, I started going in March 2022. It's a big commitment, I will admit that. I don't know what it's like for, like I said, the IV or the shot.
Sarah Tatarski:
But with Spravato, you have to go twice a week for a month and you can't drive yourself there or back because you're too high. And then, the next month, you only go once a week. And then, after that is maintenance, if you choose. So...
Alyssa Scolari:
Wow.
Sarah Tatarski:
During the... Yeah, it's a big commit. During the process, you're just lying in a room for two hours by yourself. At least, that's how my clinic does it. So, I'm just lying there and I'm like, "Hi, hi is heck in." I'm just lying there. And it's a really, nice time to almost meditate or just reflect for two hours. I literally, can't do anything. I'm too high. I can't barely look at my phone.
Sarah Tatarski:
And it's been nice to have that reflection time, while I'm not exactly sure, exactly if it's benefiting me because it's hard. I had just come from a trauma center. I'm in therapy. I'm in family therapy. I have so many variables in my life that are helping me to heal that I can't exactly say, is ketamine helped me because there's just too many factors in my life right now that are helping me feel better. But that forced relaxation has been a challenge for me, because I struggle with relaxing and forcing myself to just exist in the world and just be...
Alyssa Scolari:
Right, as to many trauma survivors, yeah.
Sarah Tatarski:
Exactly. So, that's been one of the most healing aspects of ketamine is just being. I even cried during one session. I was like, "What are these emotions that are just suddenly coming up?" I was like, "This is healthy. What?"
Alyssa Scolari:
What is this? Yeah.
Sarah Tatarski:
So, it's supposed to help people who struggle a lot with SI. Again, suicide ideation for people who don't know the shorthand. But I have other friends who've done ketamine in different forms and they say, it has changed their life. Again, too many factors in my life are going on for me to give you a definite answer. Yes, it's helping me.
Alyssa Scolari:
Hard to say. It's hard to say, yeah.
Sarah Tatarski:
But just being in that community, going to clinic every week and seeing the psychiatrist and stuff, it's more nice to just like have a little community of little ketamine people and we talk to each other. So, that's been nice.
Alyssa Scolari:
And there are restrictions because ketamine is a drug. So, are there like, do they do thorough evaluations on like, drug abuse history? Because I would imagine that can be tricky.
Sarah Tatarski:
Yeah. So, I forgot to mention. Of course, I had to do an evaluation. They had to even diagnose me because technically, I mean, there's a lot of diagnoses that I have that are not diagnosed officially. So, they had to do that to make sure, and then send that evaluation to my insurance and be like, "Hey, she has major depressive disorder."
Sarah Tatarski:
As a former... If you're a recovering drug addict, you can still do ketamine, but you have to be heavily much more monitored than me for who doesn't have a history of drug abuse. But definitely, they're not just throwing it around and saying, "Oh, yeah, everybody can do ketamine." Even if you have major depressive disorder, they need to clear you to make sure that you won't relapse or that you're being monitored on different levels to know that you're okay throughout the process and not going to relapse into a drug addiction.
Alyssa Scolari:
Now, do you know like, okay, so EMDR helps relapse your nervous system. And similarly, do you know how ketamine is supposed to work like on the body?
Sarah Tatarski:
Yes. So, I was always thinking ketamine was a psychedelic, but it's not. It slows down the brain and that's what it does. It just slows everything down. You're like in a drunken state while you're in the room. And I think that feeling of, "Oh, I have time to really think and just exist in the world and relax and think about things in a different way. Instead of, with trauma, our anxiety is so high. Sometimes, we can't even think straight. We're just like, ruminating, ruminating, intrusive thoughts all the time.
Sarah Tatarski:
And yeah, that's how it worked. It slows down the body. And I should mention that, if you're on antidepressants, they want you to continue to stay on those throughout the process. They don't want you to get off of it. And personally, I'm not on an antidepressant right now, but I still qualified because I had tried two different medications and it didn't help me.
Alyssa Scolari:
Okay.
Sarah Tatarski:
So, if you have tried two different anxiety medications or depression meds and it didn't work, you can qualify. So, that's why I qualified. But they want you to stay on your antidepressants. And the other thing about Spravato is that, they say, "We don't exactly know what it does. We just know it helps." And so, welcome to big pharma, guys. They don't exactly know what happened...
Alyssa Scolari:
Yeah, you know it helps.
Sarah Tatarski:
But they say, "Hey, it helps." So, I'm not complaining. But yeah, you have to be on or continue to remain on your antidepressants throughout the process. They don't want you to cold quit in the middle of ketamine.
Alyssa Scolari:
Okay, yeah, yeah. I would imagine there's also still so much research to be done about it because I do think it is newer.
Sarah Tatarski:
Yeah, Spravato was approved I believe in 2019. So, it's very new...
Alyssa Scolari:
Okay.
Sarah Tatarski:
... compared to other drugs.
Alyssa Scolari:
Yup, very new. And a lot of studies have been on halt because of the pandemic. So, we're still learning. We're still learning. Now, I do have one final question for you, if you don't mind. And this is partially, a question that I have personally, but also a question I think a lot of other people will have.
Alyssa Scolari:
So, in going to different forms of therapy, right? It sounds like you have had good experiences, but I know that there are so many people out there who have tried alternative forms of therapy and have had bad experiences and places that are poorly run, places that do more harm than good. I know that have certainly, been the experience for myself and many others. What is some advice that you can give people who I think are just feeling down and out about the quality of mental healthcare that they've experienced?
Sarah Tatarski:
You have to go in with an open mind because these places are run by humans. I mean, like I said, at the first trauma center I went to, it was almost like a jail. And I left, thank God at 4:00 every day, I did not have to sleep there. And there is some stuff that would go down at night, for sure.
Sarah Tatarski:
Everybody in there has trauma and things happen. So, I think for me, none of the places I've been to, none of my therapists have been perfect. Perfection actually, doesn't even exist in the world. So, doesn't want to say that. But, I mean, of course, if there's abuse going on, if there's emotional abuse or physical abuse from the staff and staff, I'm not saying, "Oh, go in with an open mind," just ignore it.
Alyssa Scolari:
Right.
Sarah Tatarski:
But I just know that if you go in thinking that everything's going to be exactly right, everything's going to run smoothly at whatever care center you're at or whatever treatment you do, the reality is that, it won't. And you'll probably, be disappointed. I mean, there are definitely flaws at places that I've been to.
Sarah Tatarski:
The place I was just at, called Innova Grace. I have had tremendous healing from them. But there's things that could be worked on. Absolutely, could be worked on to make it an even better program. But there are some things I just had to let go because I knew that doing therapy at Innova Grace twice a week and getting EMDR and I was in Texas. So, I was away from my mom. I was away from my childhood home. I was so grateful to be there, and to be able to have that help, that there are some things, if it wasn't overly concerning that I just had to let go in the moment.
Alyssa Scolari:
Yeah.
Sarah Tatarski:
And I would complain, I would speak up if there's something that made me uncomfortable and there were things that did change. And sometimes, it didn't. But I also think another thing is, people might be disappointed in alternative treatments because you put in most of the work, if not all of it, therapists are there to guide you.
Sarah Tatarski:
And I think that's something, I was naive in believing when I was younger, even probably, like two years ago, not even that long where I thought, "Oh, why isn't this therapist fixing me? Why isn't she doing this? Why X, Y, Z and all this stuff?" I was like, "Therapy only works if you're as honest as you are. If you are, if you hold things from your therapist, you're not going to make any progress. If you keep rejecting the way that you behave and act and that how resistant you are to treatment, you're not going to get better. You can't blame the treatment center. You can't blame your therapist. Of course, again, some therapists suck. I just had a really, awful one from September to December. She told me... I said...
Alyssa Scolari:
Gosh.
Sarah Tatarski:
... "I just, I feel like I can't go in public. And I feel like I can't do things by myself. And I'm just, I'm so upset. I don't know what's wrong with me." And she said, "Just do it."
Alyssa Scolari:
Oh, wow. That's great advice. Thank you, I never thought of that before.
Sarah Tatarski:
So, again, I just want to restate, there are people that are super problematic and there's abuse in some of these places, there are. And I'm not saying to go in and be like, "Oh, yeah, ignore it and disassociate from it," which is probably, how you coped this long. Don't do that. But it is run by humans and it is how much you contribute.
Sarah Tatarski:
Because like I told you, before we started recording, one of my therapists, I told her, I said, "I'm really open." And she called me out and she said, "No, you're not, you're not open." And I'm like, "I got so guarded, and I'm like, whatever." And then, I thought about it and I said, "She's right." And that's how we proceeded forward. I was able to really, work with that therapist and get through so many deep things because I was just completely, honest with her and I let myself cry.
Sarah Tatarski:
So, that's my advice, be open minded, just know the process isn't perfect. If there are major concerns, voice them. If things don't change, then maybe you need to try a different area, like a different place, a different therapist. And you have to contribute your full honesty and vulnerability to it, or else you will not heal. That's something that I wish I had known when I was 19, when I started the journey.
Alyssa Scolari:
That is incredible advice. All of it, I agree. I mean, you said it perfectly, you said it perfectly. And I want to thank you for coming on the show because this is something that's really, important to talk about. It's something that you spoke a lot of hard truths that people I think really need to hear, hey, including myself. We all need to hear a lot of this stuff and it's also very inspiring.
Alyssa Scolari:
And I think it certainly, has given me a lot of hope for the future and for my own recovery. And it's hope that we wouldn't have without your willingness to be vulnerable and come on here and talk about it. So, thank you so, so much. I know that I mentioned Sarah's Instagram in the beginning of this episode, which the name is? Can you give the name one more time?
Sarah Tatarski:
Vulnerable and Not Afraid.
Alyssa Scolari:
Vulnerable and Not Afraid. You know that will be in the show notes for today's episode. And I just want to say thank you again for coming on the show today.
Sarah Tatarski:
Yeah, it was so great talking to you, and I'm happy to answer any of the listeners questions if they directly message you or you can directly message me on my Instagram, I'm happy to do a call or send a voice memo, share resources. That's, I mean, the whole reason I started the Instagram, partly for myself to remind myself, "Hey, this is where I've been." And to help others realize that antidepressants and once a week therapy are not the only choices out there.
Alyssa Scolari:
Amen. Amen. Thank you so, so much, Sarah.
Sarah Tatarski:
Yeah, no problem.
Alyssa Scolari:
Thanks for listening, everyone. For more information, please head over to lightaftertrauma.com or you can also follow us on social media. On Instagram, we are @lightaftertrauma. And on Twitter, it is @lightafterpod. Lastly, please head over to patreon.com/lightaftertrauma to support our show. We are asking for $5 a month, which is the equivalent to a cup of coffee at Starbucks. So, please head on over. Again, that's patreon.com/lightaftertrauma. Thank you. And we appreciate your support.
