Light After Trauma

Self sabotage often shows up at many points throughout our trauma recovery. It can take both conscious and unconscious forms. Tune in to find out if you may be sabotaging your own healing process.

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Transcript:

Alyssa Scolari [00:23]:

What's up everybody. It's Alyssa Scolari. I am your host of the Light After Trauma Podcast. Welcome back to another episode, talking about self-sabotage today. I'm very passionate about this one. Very passionate. I'm going to get real raw today and it's going to be really uncomfortable.

Alyssa Scolari [00:45]:

Trigger warning just upfront. We're going to be talking about some sexual abuse related stuff. Not the whole episode. So you can feel free to skip when I'm talking about it and yeah, that's what we got today. We're talking about self-sabotage.

Alyssa Scolari [01:02]:

Just some housekeeping things. Thank you, of course, as always for all of the love and the support. In case you missed it on the last episode, we raised $110 for Doctors Without Borders to help in Ukraine, which is so exciting. You can actually see the receipt for the donation on the Instagram. My Instagram is Light After Trauma. So feel free to go check it out. You can see the receipt, but if you signed up to become a Patreon member for the month of March, whatever you donated for that month, I matched with my own money. And then we sent that to Doctors Without Borders. So that was really fun. That was really awesome. And I can't wait to continue to do this for like other causes and charities and ah, it's good stuff. Good, good stuff. I'm super proud of us in our little community. So thank you. Thank you.

Alyssa Scolari [01:58]:

If you still want to become a Paton member, you can head on over to the show notes and that would extremely helpful. Anything you are able to give towards the podcast really helps keep this podcast up and running. So I appreciate it. Thank you for your also reviews and ratings. It helps the podcast to grow. It helps get the word out. So anytime you leave a review, it is extremely, extremely helpful and helps the podcast to move up in the ranks. And then when it moves up in the ranks, it becomes more available to people. So thank you. Thank you very much. And I think that's it.

Alyssa Scolari [02:40]:

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, that's not it. I did want to say you are all the best, you really are. Because last week's episode, when I was talking about my horror story with the EMDR therapist, some of you emailed me and gave me referrals to therapists in your area or therapists that you know of that you thought would be great. And I just love it. I'm so thankful for the support. I can't even begin to tell you how much it means to me. And it's also really nice to hear from you because I feel like I have a bunch of friends out there, but I don't necessarily have confirmation of that unless I hear from you in some way, shape or form. I don't know who you are unless you reach out to me. So I just love it when I hear from people. It's so much fun. I just feel like I have a bunch of friends. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Alyssa Scolari [03:43]:

As an update on the EMDR front, the therapist that I had, and if you listened last week, you kind of know what happened. That the therapist I had ghosted me completely and it was horrible. After one session, I went back to our second session and he did not show up. And there's a little bit more to it, but you can feel free to listen to last week's episode if you want the details. So I reached out to him and it took me a few days to do it because I struggle with boundaries and I feel guilty when I set boundaries and I wanted to him the benefit of the doubt, of course, always. And I felt super guilty. So it took me a little bit of time to be able to say, "Hey, I actually don't want to move forward with you."

Alyssa Scolari [04:32]:

I was really determined to tell him, instead of just ghosting him, not because he deserves an explanation because quite frankly, I think the angry part of me wanted to do to him what he did to me, which is just not show up for my next session, but my card would've been charged for a late fee. And quite frankly, I don't feel like paying for it... He doesn't deserve my money, honestly, but also I wanted to practice boundary setting. This was a good opportunity for me to practice dealing with all of the feelings that come up when I set boundaries. So he basically just responded...

Alyssa Scolari [05:16]:

Well, I texted him and I was like, "Hey, after having some time to process, there have been several scheduling errors. And then after you not showing up last week, that was really like the last straw for me and I really need a therapist who can give me consistency. So I don't think that you and I are going to be a good match moving forward." And he just responded and was like, "I understand and I sincerely apologize," or some crap like that. I mean, I'm glad that he was able to accept it and not retaliate or say something kind of snarky, but at the same time, it's still just like, it's your fault, dude, because honestly he could have repaired that relationship. He could have. If he had picked up the phone and called me to make sure that I was okay, but I just... It's kind of hard to explain.

Alyssa Scolari [06:10]:

I feel like unless you're super familiar with EMDR, you can't understand that missing any kind of therapy session, for a therapist to not show up can be super damaging for anybody. It's a little bit perhaps less damaging if you're not doing EMDR. And that's not to say that I would like invalidate anybody's feelings because whether I have EMDR or not, if my therapist didn't show up, or if I didn't show up for one of my clients, I would absolutely expect abandonment stuff to come up. And I would have to take accountability as the therapist, or I would expect my therapist to take accountability. Now, God forbid, if there was like a real emergency. I mean, of course, I would understand it. I would hope my clients would understand it and I would hope we would be able to repair.

Alyssa Scolari [07:01]:

With EMDR though, EMDR can leave you so raw. And he warned me in the session. He was like, "You're going to be really raw. You're going to be really emotional. It's going to be really difficult. There's going to be a lot of intense stuff that comes up." So he knew that. He told me, and then he just didn't even bother to call me. And he had the ability to call me because he was talking to me or he texted me. And so I know he had the ability to at least touch base with me. And he really offered no real explanation for why didn't show up. Of course, I know the reason. I know he fucking forgot because he didn't read the text message that I sent him when he asked me to remind him when our appointment was, which is problematic in itself. But I digress.

Alyssa Scolari [07:53]:

So there're just so many other things that he could have done to repair that relationship. And if I were in his shoes, I would have that client on the phone in a heartbeat, not charging them a single cent and seeing how they're feeling, if I triggered their abandonment. How we can repair this relationship. And no, maybe I'm not going to stay on the phone with them for an hour. I wasn't asking for a free session, but he should have touch base with me. He had no idea if I was safe, unsafe, he had only met me one time. So the whole thing is just really infuriating that he can be like, "Oh, EMDR is going to be one of the hardest things you've ever done." And then just like not show up and really not give a flying fuck about how I am. So he's gone. I did it. I set a boundary and I feel really good about it. In hindsight, of course, it was not easy doing it, but I feel good about it now. I think I might have found somebody else. So we'll see. I have my first session scheduled and we will see how it goes. Enough about that. We can transition into self-sabotage.

Alyssa Scolari [09:09]:

I did a fun little thing this week, where I had a poll on my Instagram. And I asked you all to tell me what you wanted to hear, because I was going back and forth between talking about self-sabotage and talking about borderline personality disorder. And obviously I definitely want to talk about both on this podcast, but many of you requested the self-sabotage. So that is what we are doing today.

Alyssa Scolari [09:35]:

Self-sabotage is basically behaviors that you engage in that hinder your progress. It's pretty self-explanatory. And I think that a lot of self-sabotage can be an unconscious thing, something that lives in your subconscious, we are not aware that we are doing it. And I have picked up on a lot of my own self-sabotaging tactics over the last like several years, I'd say, and I'm a little bit more aware.

Alyssa Scolari [10:11]:

I think for me, the issue is I become aware of self-sabotage right after I do it. So obviously the goal is to be able to identify what you're doing before you do it. I tend not to do that. Sometimes I do, but hey, I'm a work in progress. We all are. And I think that there are stages of progression when it comes to dealing with self-sabotage, you might recognize it four months after the fact. And then you might recognize it two weeks after the fact. And then you might recognize it immediately after the fact. And then you're going to get to the point where you're going to see yourself, you're going to catch yourself in it, and you're going to be like, "Nope, not doing this because I'm self-sabotaging." So it's a progression.

Alyssa Scolari [11:03]:

Now, there are all kinds of self-sabotages. There's holding yourself back from going after that degree you really want. There's refusing to go out with friends anywhere because you don't want to deal with the anxiety that can come up with social interaction. Things like that can be, not always, but they can be self-sabotage.

Alyssa Scolari [11:26]:

We're not going to be talking about all the types of self-sabotage today. What we are going to be focusing on is a kind of self-sabotage that again, I don't think many people are consciously aware of, but really can hold you back in your recovery. And that is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Self-fulfilling prophecy is absolutely self-sabotage. Let me explain how.

Alyssa Scolari [11:53]:

Sometimes our thoughts are so powerful that we can think them into existence. We can think them into reality. Have you ever had to go somewhere that you really don't want to go to and you've been dreading it and you're like, "This is going to suck. This is going to be horrible. I'm going to leave feeling terrible. I'm not going to have any fun. I'm not going to make any friends." And then you go and it was just as bad as you always thought it was going to be, or maybe even worse? Maybe it was always going to be that bad, maybe not, but maybe you talked yourself into things being that bad. Maybe you talked yourself into an argument with your partner. Maybe you talked yourself into a panic attack. I'm not self-blaming. I hope that my words don't come off as that, so I'm going to explain.

Alyssa Scolari [12:55]:

Again, let's go back to this event. I have this event to go to. I don't really feel like going. I'm not going to like anybody there and it's going to suck. So if you are going into it feeling that way and feeling very, very anxious and telling yourself, "I'm going to have a panic attack beforehand, because I can't leave my house. I don't like to engage with people." You are more likely to act in ways that align with the beliefs in your brain, because the thoughts that are coming up in your head, you are not taking those thoughts and going, "Okay, that's one possibility, but there could also be many other possibilities I could have a decent time."

Alyssa Scolari [13:36]:

More often than not, we are not doing that because I think especially as trauma survivors, we tend to try to stay in the black and white, because that feels better for us. So we like definitive concrete answers and thoughts and beliefs. So our brain goes to, "This is going to be your reality. You're going to go to this party. This party's going to suck. You're not going to make any friends. Nobody's going to like your outfit." And then we end up just believing that no matter what we do from now until this party, the outcome is always going to be the same and we are going to have a terrible time. But perhaps that is not the case.

Alyssa Scolari [14:15]:

Perhaps if you were able to identify those thoughts and say to yourself, "Okay, yeah, this is not ideal for me, but what if I might not have a horrible time? And what can I potentially do to make it so that I may not have a horrible time? What can I do? Can I try to pick out an outfit that I really like and feel really, really good in? Can I try to see who is going to be there and who I can connect with ahead of time so that I'm not feeling so alone? What can I do for the rest of that weekend to make my weekend very relaxing and enjoyable for me to ease the fact that I have to go to this event that I don't really like?" Thinking of ways that you can make your beliefs about a future event, not a reality. Make it a possibility, not a factual-based reality. And there are other ways that this shows up. I'm going to give you one example.

Alyssa Scolari [15:29]:

Many of you know I am in pelvic floor physical therapy for my endometriosis. I had surgery in late January, and I've been in PT for about probably since December, since before my surgery. And I go every week. And it has been really hard because it is very invasive. For those of you who don't know what pelvic floor physical therapy is, well, it involves a lot of things based around strengthening the pelvis, but also all of the muscles in and around the genitalia. Basically, it's like going to an OB-GYN appointment and having your internal examination last for 30 minutes. Because I do some strengthening work, but also I have to go and... I do want to include as an aside. I probably should have said this a little bit earlier, but I do want to include a trigger warning here because I am go going to be talking about sex. We're talking about sex. So if this is something that's uncomfortable for you, please feel free to go ahead and skip. Just want to offer a trigger warning right here and right now.

Alyssa Scolari [16:46]:

So for pelvic floor physical therapy, it involves me having to go. I have to take my pants off and she has to insert her fingers to be able to work with the muscles. She is retraining my muscles to calm down because everything is so tense because I have been in such excruciating pain for months on end. So she is having to work on all of the muscles inside of me. And as you can imagine, it is extremely triggering for somebody who has a history of sexual abuse. A few weeks back, I had a panic attack actually. And my physical therapist is amazing. I cannot complain about her whatsoever. She is super trauma informed, she is so safe, because I would not be going if I didn't feel extremely safe around her. But I actually had a panic attack in physical therapy a few weeks ago, and she helped me through that.

Alyssa Scolari [17:47]:

I just think that you guys know how I feel about the mind, body connection. Your body holds so much trauma. Mine certainly does. And so when she will like hit certain spots, my body will have a reaction in the form of a panic attack or some kind of trauma response that I have to work through. Perhaps a memory will come up. It has been a really difficult process. So she was teaching me about something new that she wanted to do to help me and I was extremely triggered by it. Again, it was nothing that she did because she's wonderful, but I was really, really triggered by it and I was like, "I don't know how I'm going to be able to do this. I don't know if I'm ready to do this. This feels uncomfortable." And I got through the appointment okay, but I think the emotions finally caught up with me when I got home. I on the drive home felt so like short of breath almost to the point where I was like, "Wow, do I have asthma?" Because I can't breathe." But it was my anxiety.

Alyssa Scolari [19:01]:

And so I kept telling myself, I was like working myself up into a panic. And I was like, "Oh my God, I can't do this. I can't do this. I can't go back to physical therapy. This is too much. This is too hard." And so I'm like working myself up and I'm working myself up and I'm like physical therapy is going to make me even more stressed out because it's bringing up all this trauma and I just can't do it. And so then I went home and I get out of my car. Mind you the day before I worked all day and it was a really difficult day that ended in chaos and just, it was difficult. I had to do things that I hate doing as a therapist. I had to break confidentiality. It is not fun. It was not fun. It was a really upsetting day. And so I was already stressed out. I already had a little bit of an emotional hangover. And so all of this is just like brewing inside of me and I'm in my head and I'm like, "I can't take much more. I can't take much more. I'm going to lose my shit if something happens.

Alyssa Scolari [20:18]:

And so I get home and I start making breakfast for myself because I hadn't eaten yet. And I hear my dog throw up and I was like, "No." I was praying that she threw up on the hardwood floor and not the carpet. And so I walk out into the living room and I see her on the stairs. Our stairs are hardwood, but we have these custom-made stair treads that are like carpets, little like traction carpets. And she's standing on the stairs and she's throwing up all over the stairs. And I panicked because I was like, "Dave is going to be so mad when he sees this. He's going to freak out. I can't handle this." This was the last straw and I'm laughing at myself now. It's not funny. I was really upset, but I just... Now that I'm looking back and I can see like the progression of events and how I just did not intervene when I knew I was getting to a bad place, I just kind of let it happen.

Alyssa Scolari [21:37]:

And so David heard me go, "Oh man." And so he came downstairs and I'm like, "No, no, no, no, no. Don't come downstairs. Don't look at it. You're going to get so mad." And he's not because I'm afraid of anger right now because I have been dealing with so much anger this week and I am an abuse survivor. I've dealt with angry men in the past and I am very triggered by it, but David is not an angry... he's not like that. So I was already dissociated. I was like, "No, no, no, don't look. You're going to freak out. You're going to freak out. And he saw, and he was annoyed. He was rightfully annoyed at the throw up on the stairs, because literally like throw up anywhere in the house... Most of house is hardwood. You're going to tell me that you picked the most difficult spot to throw up in this house. Are you kidding me?

Alyssa Scolari [22:36]:

I get it. He had every right to be annoyed. He didn't start screaming. He wasn't stomping. He wasn't throwing things, but I panicked. I was like, "I'll clean it up. I'll clean it up." And so he actually was just like, "No, I'll clean it up. No worries, because I don't do throw up. I will if I have to, but it makes me really sick." So he's like, "I got it," but he was annoyed. And I am... This is so embarrassing to say, but I lost my shit and I started like scream crying. I was like, "I told you I would clean it up because you're mad and I can't handle you being mad." Ironically, I was the one who was mad. I was mad at him for being annoyed, for being rightfully annoyed.

Alyssa Scolari [23:30]:

So I brought this on myself and then I think he was a little like not triggered, but maybe ticked off at me because I'm yelling at him. Why am I yelling at him? I should not be yelling at him. I'm just crying and I'm like, "I told you I would clean it up so you don't get mad." And he was like, "Sweetie, what is going on?" Because I just like I walked in the door and fell apart. And so he was just like, "What is happening?" And I didn't even know what was happening.

Alyssa Scolari [24:05]:

You might be asking like, "Okay, how in the hell is this a self-fulfilling prophecy?" And basically it's a self-fulfilling prophecy because it's a chain of events. So let's talk about the physical therapy. I was like telling myself, "I'm going to have a panic attack. I can't handle this. I literally can't today. I cannot do this. This is a horrible day. I don't know how I'm going to go on." And then within minutes of that conversation in my head, I ended up having a panic attack. I ended up crying and yelling and freaking out and I could not get regulated. I could not get regulated. But then I also came home and I was like, "David's going to be so mad. He's going to be so mad that this dog threw up and I can't handle it. If he gets mad, I'm going to freak out." Well, he wasn't mad. He was not even mad, but I made him mad with my strong reaction because I'm yelling at him for doing nothing wrong, nothing wrong. So I actually made him mad.

Alyssa Scolari [25:16]:

And then when I could see that he was frustrated with me, I was like, "See, I knew it. I knew it. I knew he was going to get mad. I knew this was going to happen. I can't handle this. I'm running away." It was like truly I am running away moment. Like I need to get on a plane and I need to go on an island because I am not doing well right now. So it was a catastrophe for me, but I also talked myself into a catastrophe.

Alyssa Scolari [25:48]:

Please don't misunderstand me. I am not saying that mental health is as simple as that. I am not saying that we can talk ourselves out of depression or panic attacks or trauma responses because we cannot. And if you have been listening to this podcast for a long time, you know that is not how I feel. But what I am saying is my morning did not have to be nearly as bad as it was if I had been able to stop myself from the self-sabotage and the self-fulfilling prophecy, because I am the one with my train of thoughts that induced my own panic attack because I didn't intervene. I am the one that caused David to feel angry because here I am yelling at him because he got a little bit annoyed at the dog. He wasn't mad at me. He was a little annoyed at the throw up, understandably so. I did that. I sabotaged myself by saying, "I can't handle this. I am at the end of my rope. This isn't going to work out for me today."

Alyssa Scolari [27:01]:

Well, guess what? I still had a full day ahead of me. I still had to work. I had things I had to do. I had to go grocery shopping. I had to make doctor's appointments. So the more I told myself "I can't," the worse I made myself feel because the truth of the matter is that it's not like I could have taken the day off and not done anything. I mean, I guess I could have, but I wasn't planning on it.

Alyssa Scolari [27:28]:

And so me just saying, "I can't do this, I can't do this, I can't do this," was setting myself up so that I literally couldn't do it. If I had changed that dialogue and I had said to myself, "This is horribly unpleasant. This is horrible. I was triggered at work last night. I had a hard day at work. I had to do things as a therapist that I really don't like doing. I had a really hard morning at physical therapy and now my dog is throwing up. It's just not my week, but I am making it and I have made it. I've still been able to show up for my clients and be the best therapist I can be. I've still been able to feed myself. I've still been able to drink water. I've still been able to be present with my dogs." After the horrible week I've had, it wouldn't have been so bad if I could have talked to myself a little bit differently.

Alyssa Scolari [28:25]:

And then with David, right? He's going to be mad. He's going to be mad. He's going to be mad. I talked myself into that reality because if I had just said, "Okay, I'm feeling triggered right now. David is not the enemy. He is not the enemy. And he's going to see this throw up and he is going to be annoyed. And that is going to be okay. He is allowed to be annoyed. He is allowed to have his emotions. His annoyance doesn't mean that I'm in danger. He is a safe person." I can bet you that I would not have had an absolute breakdown in that moment. I can bet you that things would've turned out differently. So I do this. Now, I noticed it right after the fact. I was in the middle of crying and I was like, "What am I doing?"

Alyssa Scolari [29:09]:

I literally just talked myself into this breakdown with all the can'ts and talking myself into like, "David's mad. He's going to hate me." I was like, "Oh my God, he's not going to want to be married to me anymore." Where did that even come from? The dog threw up. How did I go from the dog throwing up to David is divorcing me? I laugh about it now because you can see how the logic just isn't quite adding up. But when we are in the moment, there's no room for logic in our minds, but we have to make space for the logic. Because when we talk ourselves into something and when we talk about how we already know something is going to be horrible, we already know that we aren't going to be able to handle something, sometimes we manifest that reality.

Alyssa Scolari [30:03]:

Listen, that's not to say that sometimes we truly can't handle stuff because sometimes that is the case. Sometimes I look at my schedule and I go, "Nope, not today. Today I need to take care of myself." And that's okay. That's not necessarily self-sabotage. That's self-care. It's really hard to find that middle or that middle ground. What is self-care? What is self-sabotage? But I think you have to look at it from a non-emotionally dysregulated state. So from a state of more emotional regulation. If I am emotionally regulated and I am looking at my schedule today, and I'm saying, "Nope, can't do this. Can't do this today. I am calling out of work." Or, "You know what, I know I have this activity and I can't go because I have just had too much going on and I really need to take care of myself." Perhaps that is self-care, perhaps that is self-care.

Alyssa Scolari [30:59]:

But if we're looking at an event that we have to go to, or we're looking at our schedules for the day and we're filled with almost like... I guess it would be like emotional dysregulation. So much anxiety, so much dread and all these racing thoughts of, "I can't, I can't. It's going to be horrible. It's going to be horrible. What are people going to think of me? I don't know what to wear. I can't trust myself. I'm not going to have any for friends." That's when it's like, okay, we need to really look at this here and I need to get myself regulated before I can make any decisions, before I have any interactions with somebody so that I don't risk self-sabotaging.

Alyssa Scolari [31:38]:

People do this in relationships all the time, where sometimes we are so afraid. I do this with David. I don't necessarily do it as much anymore, but when I was first with David in my earlier years of really working on my trauma recovery, I was so afraid of David just being so angry. And he's not an angry guy. Anybody who knows Dave, knows he is not an angry guy, but what I would do is I would subconsciously push his buttons and push his buttons and poke and prod. And then when he would get angry, I would be like, "See, you're angry." Well, yes, yes, of course. Now it took me a little while to realize I was doing that and sometimes I would do that with having to go out. "I'm going to be really anxious about this. I don't know if I can go. I'm going to be really anxious. I'm going to be really anxious." And then the day of the event gets here and I'm like, "See, I'm anxious. I can't go. I can't do it."

Alyssa Scolari [32:38]:

Well, yes, of course I am because I've been literally telling myself to be anxious about this for days. I have been telling myself that my partner is not safe. I have been telling myself that I hate my job." These are examples. I actually don't hate my job, but these are just examples of things that you might be telling yourself that could be self-sabotage.

Alyssa Scolari [33:05]:

Now, listen, this might sound a little bit like a mindset is everything mentality. And I don't fully agree with that. Yes, it is about mindset, but it is also about self-awareness, being aware of what you are doing and being able to see things from an objective space. So yeah, my husband and I just got into this fight or my partner and I just got into this fight. How did we get there? How did we get there? Okay. Well, I can see that last week in therapy, I processed how when I was younger my mother was really, really angry and my mother was abusive. And then I'd been thinking about it all week and I noticed that I had been pushing my partner's buttons. And then all of a sudden my partner became really angry and really annoyed. And therefore I confirmed my worst fear. I created a self-fulfilling prophecy. I sabotaged my relationship.

Alyssa Scolari [34:12]:

Hopefully this is making sense, and hopefully this is something that you can take and say, "What am I doing? Am I doing this? How am I doing this? How is this showing up in my life?" Because self-sabotage can show up in all of our lives, because for people who have experienced some type of trauma, we are familiar with things not going well. Trauma is familiar to our brains. So sometimes our brains are actively seeking out trauma. And so we look for ways in which perhaps our partners are unsafe or our friends are unsafe or our workplaces are unsafe. Sometimes we can do this when we have friends. Let's say you have a really, really a good friend, but you need help one day and you reach out to a friend and that friend can't answer. And that friend's like, "Hey, look, I've had a really, really bad day. I really can't talk. I love you, but let's catch up another time."

Alyssa Scolari [35:16]:

Sometimes we go into this head space of like, "Ah, this person sucks. They're not a good friend. They're never there for me. I don't know what I'm doing talking to them." And we kind of negate all the good things about them. All we can see is the bad. And then before we know it, we're pulling away from the friendship, we're closed off all because we have told ourselves that this person is not a good friend based on being triggered. That is self-sabotage. You are distancing yourself from a person because they made you feel some type of what way that is related to trauma. Everybody who makes us feel some type of way that is related to our trauma, isn't necessarily bad or toxic. Sometimes we feel this kind of way because we have lessons to learn, because we are still so deeply wounded from abandonment and want to hate people and push them away if they can't show up for us.

Alyssa Scolari [36:23]:

And so we tell ourselves, "Oh, I'm so alone. I don't have any friends. I'm such a burden. Nobody wants to be there for me." But in reality, that's not true. That's our abandonment stuff coming up. And we are self-sabotaging by saying that we are alone in this world. When we say we are alone, then we make ourselves alone because we close ourselves off from the rest of the world.

Alyssa Scolari [36:50]:

All of these things I have done in my life, and I have had to work extra hard to make sure that I do not self-sabotage and that I do not complete these self-fulfilling prophecies. Here is what helps me the most. And that is becoming my own detective. When I notice that I am really starting to self-sabotage or when I'm really dysregulated and have a feeling about somebody, a partner, a friend, a colleague that is like bringing up my trauma. I will number one, if I can, wait to make any decisions that are going to affect my career, my financial stability, my relationships with other people, things like that. Always wait to make any decisions.

Alyssa Scolari [37:50]:

But most importantly, most importantly, you have got to look at the facts. So let's take my day yesterday or a few days ago where I came home and I was distraught after a hard day at work, after pelvic floor physical therapy, after the dog throwing up, after being so tired, being withdrawn from my Klonopin that I'm still struggling with. Although I'm doing much better, as an aside, it is so good to be completely off that medication. I am sleeping better, but it's just like the emotional component of the withdrawal is always so bad for me and takes a few weeks. So I am doing well, but let's take all of that whole day as an example. What is the evidence that I had that I was overtaxed, that I could not go on with my day?

Alyssa Scolari [38:52]:

Well, I did have some evidence. I was very, very tired. I wasn't feeling great. I was feeling a little panicky in my chest, but what was the evidence that I simply could not go on? Where is the evidence that I could not get myself into a state of regulation so that I can move on with my day? Where was my evidence? Where is my evidence that my husband is a big, mean, scary man who's going to freak out and punch a hole on the wall if he sees that the dog threw up? Where is my evidence? And truthfully, I didn't have any. I didn't have any evidence because the fact of the matter is that I had a really easy day afterwards. Yes, I still had to work. Yes, I had to do some grocery shopping, but it was nothing that I felt like I truly couldn't do, or I didn't want to do. I wanted to go to work. I love work. Work is a really big...

Alyssa Scolari [39:52]:

Listen. Of course, sometimes my job can be stressful, but I knew the kind of day that I was going to have with work. And I knew it was going to be an easy-breezy day. So there was really no evidence that I could not move on with my day. I had no evidence that my husband is a big, mean and scary man. He's never gotten violent. He is not a violent person even when he is at his angriest. I've seen him angry before. I know the extent of his anger. I have zero evidence to show that he is anything less than a compassionate and supportive husband.

Alyssa Scolari [40:30]:

I have zero evidence to show on days where I maybe have an interaction with a friend and some of my trauma stuff is brought up. I don't really have a whole lot of evidence to show that this person is no good for me, because I feel hurt in this moment. And where's the evidence that this person had a malicious intent? Or where's the evidence that this person... Did this person really want to be mean to me? Does this person not care? Or did this person set a boundary with me?

Alyssa Scolari [41:02]:

Those are things that I think I used to struggle with probably several years ago when it comes to friendship stuff, not so much anymore. And I'm really proud of myself for this because I've been such a good detective. Instead of feeling like I'm at the mercy of my emotions, I'm like, "Okay, I can see what I'm feeling. I'm going to put those emotions in a box right now and I'm going to put on my detective hat." This person told me that they can't be there for me right now. So what does that mean? Does that mean that this person is malicious? Does that mean that this person doesn't care about me? Or is it possible that this person is having a really, really bad day and just simply cannot show up for me? And is that okay in friendships?

Alyssa Scolari [41:46]:

And I was really able to do that. Like my detective work where I'm looking at the evidence like, "Okay, what has this friendship looked like in the past? Has this person been able to show up for me in the past? Is this person a good friend? Do I feel safe and secure around this person?" And if all the answers to that are yes, then it's likely that there is no need to let your brain jump to the conclusion that, "Oh, I have to end this friendship. I'm so alone. I'm a burden to people." So that is the best way to go about this, is to give yourself space to be your own detective.

Alyssa Scolari [42:23]:

Think about times in your life where you may have been self-sabotaging and be your own detective. What is the evidence I have to support my beliefs? My beliefs that I can't get through the day, my beliefs that my partner is maybe a bad person, or my beliefs that my partner doesn't love me. Is that based in reality or is that based on trauma? What are my beliefs and what is the evidence I have to support this belief right now that I'm alone in the world and don't have any friends? That is the most helpful thing.

Alyssa Scolari [42:58]:

Now I will say this. It is really, really hard to do that while you're still in a state of extreme dysregulation. So if you are extremely emotional, do not, do not try to look for evidence because honestly, all the evidence that you look for, you're not even going to like give it any kind of weight because your brain in that moment is going to want to believe what it wants to believe. So before you become your own detective, you've got to get yourself regulated. And that might mean in taking some time, that might mean what I needed to do is I needed to put my phone away. I needed to put my computer away and I took a hot shower. And I allowed myself some time to calm down because I was so ramped up and I was so ready for an argument or a panic attack or whatever was going to happen. So I put everything away and I took a hot shower.

Alyssa Scolari [43:53]:

You might need to take a hot shower. You might take a bath. You might need to go for a walk. You might need to just sit down and read a book. You might need to have a cup of hot tea or go out and grab a cup of coffee. Whatever helps you get some space so that you can get a little bit more regulated is going to keep you from self-sabotaging.

Alyssa Scolari [44:19]:

I hope that this was helpful because we all do it. We all do it so much. And you know what? We even do it with our therapists sometimes. Sometimes our therapists will give us tools and tips and tricks and evidence to support... All the evidence in the world to support the reality that we live in. And sometimes we can still take all of that and be like, "No, no, you're wrong. You're wrong," to the therapist. Or, "Oh, well, I tried these skills. I tried them. They didn't work for me." Did we try them? How often did we try them? Did we try them once and never again and then write them off because it was too hard? All of these things are just self-sabotaging.

Alyssa Scolari [45:09]:

It's not that we're difficult. It's just that we are self-sabotaging because sometimes we're afraid to heal. Sometimes we don't know who we are without our pain and our panic attacks and our anger. It's hard to let go of anger. It's hard to let go of anxiety when it's who we in our whole lives, but ultimately doing so paves the way for healing, a level of healing which is absolutely worth it. I can promise you that.

Alyssa Scolari [45:47]:

I hope that this was helpful. If you have any questions, comments, or concerns, feel free to find me on Instagram. We can chat. I look forward to seeing you next week. I am holding you in the light, take extra good care of yourselves and don't self-sabotage.

Alyssa Scolari [46:11]:

Thanks for listening everyone. For more information, please head over to lightaftertrauma.com, or you can also follow us on social media. On Instagram we are @lightaftertrauma, and on Twitter it is @lightafterpod. Lastly, please head over to patreon.com/lightaftertrauma to support our show. We are asking for $5 a month, which is the equivalent to a cup of coffee at Starbucks. So please head on over. Again, that's patreon.com/lightaftertrauma. Thank you and we appreciate your support.

Alyssa Scolari [46:48]:

[singing].

There are thousands of false representations of therapy in the media and general public. Some of these misconceptions about the therapeutic process may prevent people from seeking help or fully opening up in their sessions. In this week's episode Alyssa sets the record straight on 8 common myths about going to therapy.

Check out the Light After Trauma website for transcripts, other episodes, Alyssa's guest appearances, and more at: www.lightaftertrauma.com

Want to get more great content and interact with the show? Check us out on Instagram: @lightaftertrauma

We need your help! We want to continue to make great content that can help countless trauma warriors on their journey to recovery. So, please help us in supporting the podcast by becoming a recurring patron of the show via Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/lightaftertrauma

Transcript

Alyssa Scolari [00:23]:

Hello, everybody. Welcome back. Or if you're new, welcome. And if you're old, welcome back. Well, not old, you know what I mean. It is good to be here. This is the Light After Trauma Podcast, and I am your host, Alyssa Scolari. Solo episode today, which is like... They might be my favorites. I think solo episodes are my favorites. I don't know. I love both. I feel like I've had some really good guest interviews, so I've got some really good guest episodes coming up for you all. But yeah, there's just something that hits different about these solo episodes. And it's nice to be able to talk to you all today, because let me tell you, I am having a shit week. And not just a week where things weren't really that great, I was in a grumbly mood, no, this was a no good, terrible, very bad week.

Alyssa Scolari [01:22]:

Is that a book? I feel like that's a book that I read in my childhood. It's not like Alexander's No Good, Terrible, Horrible, Very Bad Day or something like that. But regardless, that's the kind of week that I've had where everything that can go wrong, did go wrong. It shouldn't be that. That's a little bit of an exaggeration, quite honestly, but it really was a horrible, horrible week. And I would be lying if I told you I wasn't feeling like an absolute bag of shit right now, but I am trying to use my humor therapy to get through it. And podcasting always helps me feel better. So I'm just going to have venting corner for a second.

Alyssa Scolari [02:13]:

And skippers, if you want to skip, feel free to skip. You don't have to listen to me at all, but I'm just going to have a little venting corner here. So, a few things. Number one, I haven't really talked much about this, but a few years ago when I was really in like the worst of my PTSD, and by the way, I was made to be as bad as I was because I had a healthcare provider/therapist who was telling me I needed to be on all of these medications in order to function, so a huge red flag. It's something that I will talk to you all about one day, but just can't talk about it right now.

Alyssa Scolari [02:57]:

And maybe this was about three years ago, because about two and a half years ago, I realized that these medications were actually making me sicker, and I'm not saying that medication is bad, but what I was on was making me sicker. And I started the process of coming off of all of these medications. It has taken me two and a half years, because on Tuesday, so a week ago before this episode is airing, I stopped taking the last dose of the last medication that I was coming off of, and the withdrawal of all three of the medications that I was on has been horrendous and has left me with lifelong side effects, or what I believe will be lifelong, because I should have never been on that combination of medications.

Alyssa Scolari [03:55]:

I digress. This is a topic for another time. The point that I'm trying to make here is the withdrawal is horrendous, absolutely horrendous. And so I have been going through it this week. I can't sleep, I am sweating, I am twitching. I am in a rage that is so intense that I feel like I can't control myself. I am feeling almost like, if you're a Harry Potter fan are familiar with Harry Potter, the third book, Prisoner of Azkaban, the Dementors. I feel like I have a Dementor or multiple Dementors around me everywhere.

Alyssa Scolari [04:37]:

For those of you who aren't familiar, Dementors are these creatures that suck the happiness out of your soul, essentially, and make you feel as if you'll never be cheerful again. That is how I am feeling. I'm not sleeping. I'm just really, really irritable. I'm going through it. And then on top of that, I got my period, which like wasn't supposed to happen because I just had it two weeks ago. And I think what I didn't realize or what nobody tells you after endometriosis surgery is that number one, your first couple periods are excruciatingly painful because your body is still healing. And number two, your periods are going to be super irregular, all over the place, because again, your body is still healing.

Alyssa Scolari [05:27]:

Was I told that? Absolutely not. Did I have to learn that on the internet after I panicked because I thought that there was something wrong with me? Yes. So I wasn't expecting this. The cramps have kept me up all night as well, I've been in just a ton of pain mentally, physically. And on top of that, on top of that, yes, there is more, as many of you know, and if you're new in my more recent episodes, I talk about how I started EMDR. I started EMDR two weeks ago, and I was ghosted by my therapist. I mean ghosted, he didn't show up for our appointment, my second appointment.

Alyssa Scolari [06:22]:

People are... Well, not people. People are humans, therapists are humans, and we all make mistakes. And if you're on my Instagram and you've watched some of my stories where I'm talking about that therapist, you know that this was the final straw in a series of events where there have been issues with scheduling and not necessarily, scheduling and not on my end, but multiple times where this therapist has reached out to me and been like, "Hey, what time are we meeting?" And I would then have to tell them, or they would get the time wrong. And then our schedules would be messed up because I thought we were meeting at this time because that's what we said, but then they told me that we were meeting another time.

Alyssa Scolari [07:09]:

And so it's just been a series of unfortunate events that have... maybe isolated might not seem like a big deal, but when put together are showing a pattern that this is not somebody who's going to be reliable. And if you haven't listened to the previous episodes about EMDR, what you need to know about EMDR is that it is extremely dangerous work, potentially. And EMDR can cause folks with a trauma history to unravel a little bit. It's very intense, it's extremely painful, and it leaves people feeling raw. It is not safe to have a therapist who is unreliable.

Alyssa Scolari [07:52]:

And I think what really got to me is that I had this appointment on Tuesday, and then on Monday, this therapy has texted me and was like, "Wait, what time are we meeting on Thursday?" And I was like, "We're not meeting on Thursday, we're meeting on Tuesday." And I was like, "Does that still work with you?" And they were like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, that works." So this was less than 24 hours before our appointment. I get to the appointment and therapist isn't there, the therapist didn't show up. And the excuse that I was given for why they didn't show up really was not good and was very blatantly a lie and very much just came off as like, you totally forgot, you completely forgot about the appointment.

Alyssa Scolari [08:33]:

The therapist didn't call me to make sure I was okay, because I had one session of EMDR, for all they know, I could have been completely unraveled, going out of my mind. I could have been suicidal, but they neither called nor cared to call and check in on any of that and apologize for this abandonment. I was literally abandoned at the door. Now, I don't really have a relationship with that person. I liked our first session. So it didn't hit me as hard, but it really pisses me off. And it does hurt a little bit, because you know what? I shouldn't have to be more organized than my therapist. That's not okay.

Alyssa Scolari [09:11]:

And I could feel myself being like, "Okay, I'm clearly the more organized one. I'm the more structured one." And you know what? It's not okay for your therapist to keep reaching out to you multiple times to ask you when you're meeting, it's not appropriate. So I am done. And I have to now find a new therapist, which, if you've been looking for a therapist or if you're someone who has had to find a therapist in this pandemic, you know it has been nearly impossible to find somebody.

Alyssa Scolari [09:41]:

So I am now having to go back through and search for therapists. Mind you, after I've already done one EMDR session, so I'm a little bit raw and a little bit unraveled. I am honestly just pissed off. Those are like the three things that happened. And there's been some other things that honestly, I'm not going to bore you with, but it was just one thing after the next, after the next this week. And I'm like, "Fuck. Why?" Not to mention, it's just been shitty weather, which has really affected my mood.

Alyssa Scolari [10:16]:

I never realized how badly I had seasonal depression until this year, and I'm like, "Damn, I need the sunshine in my life." So that's what I got. That's what I got. It's been a crap week and I am just trying to get through it as best as I can and manage my emotions and my triggers. I think I'm doing really well, all things considered, but I'm feeling pretty frustrated and pretty let down, honestly, very let down with the whole therapist thing, because I was really looking forward to the EMDR process. And now I have to take some time off and look and search and take the time out.

Alyssa Scolari [10:59]:

I don't feel like it, but I know I have to because I have a big trip coming up this summer and I really want to work out some things and calm my nervous system a little bit before my big trip. So, that is that. I'll leave you with that. If you have hung in with me for this long, thank you for letting me vent. I appreciate it. And today, we are going to talk about some common myths for therapy. What people believe happens or takes place in therapy versus what actually happens. And this is really piggybacking off of last week's episode where I talk about how to find the right therapist for you.

Alyssa Scolari [11:45]:

Now I want to talk about what you can expect from therapy process and what some of the common myths are from therapy that really might not be true and that might, in all honesty, keep you from going to therapy if you believed them to be true. And I cannot take credit for this episode idea, I have to give this credit to my husband, Dave, Dave with the win. I think it's a great idea. I think it's fantastic because people have many misconceptions about what therapy actually is. And I would've never thought to do something like this, but my husband, I know we were talking the other day about the podcast, and he was like, "You should really do an episode on this." And I was like, "Damn, Dave, all right. All right." So kudos to Dave for this episode topic, because I'm really excited about it.

Alyssa Scolari [12:37]:

All right. So let's get into it. So myth number one. Myth number one is that only crazy... Ugh, I hate the word, or mentally ill people, severely mentally ill people, need to talk to therapists. You have to meet some kind of criteria for a diagnosis in order to go and speak to a therapist. This one is straightforward and pretty easy. And of course, I'm sure many of this, that is so not true. First of all, the word crazy... Listen, this crazy is still a part of my language, and I try very hard to take it out of my language because I think it's a very stigmatizing word.

Alyssa Scolari [13:23]:

Crazy is what we have used historically to describe people who truly do have mental illnesses or mental health disorders, so I really don't like the word crazy. So that word is just... I hate it. Sometimes I use it, sometimes it slips. I really try to be really good about it and correct myself if I do use that word. But regardless, you do not have to have mental illness or meet the criteria for a mental health disorder to go to therapy. Absolutely not. Anybody can go to therapy. And quite honestly, everybody should go to therapy.

Alyssa Scolari [14:08]:

Listen, I understand, therapy is not for everybody, and that is absolutely fine. But, these last few years in particular have been so difficult that I'm hard pressed to find somebody who's not in therapy these days, it just seems to be so common. Whether you just need some help navigating your relationship or whether you are just is having some mild anxiety that you want to talk to somebody about or whether you just really want to have somebody that you feel like you can talk to, we all need to talk about stuff, we all do. So sometimes you just might want somebody who can hold a safe space for you for one hour, once a week or once a month or once every other week, and that alone can be hugely powerful.

Alyssa Scolari [15:05]:

So you absolutely don't have to have any kind of mental health diagnosis to go to therapy. I think that most of us, I won't say most of us. I think that probably the folks who are listening to this podcast know that, or most of the folks who are listening to this podcast know that, but I don't think many people realize that. So the next one, myth number two, is that all you do in therapy is talk about how everything is tied back to your parents and how your mom and dad are to blame for everything. A lot of people don't want to go to therapy because they have no interest in rehashing the past.

Alyssa Scolari [15:49]:

Some people are processors and they need to go back and they need to rehash the past and they need to talk about it and they need to tell somebody what happened in order to be able to work through it. Other people don't want to do that. Other people don't want to sit there and talk about how it was their mom's fault, or it was their dad's fault, or it was their grandma's fault, or their grandpa's fault. They don't want to talk about that. They want to feel better without having to dive into the past. And a lot of people, I think, believe that that's just not possible and that therapy just looks like them having to go through every gruesome detail of their past. And that is so not true.

Alyssa Scolari [16:31]:

I know a lot of sexual abuse survivors actually tend to be hesitant to start therapy because they're like, "I cannot recount the details of my sexual abuse to somebody." And I am here to tell you that you don't have to. I didn't know this myself at all, and it's part of what I think made me hesitant to start going to therapy because I was like, "I can't talk about this stuff in detail. I don't want to, I don't even know if I'm going to trust the person I'm talking to." So please don't let that stop you from going to therapy because there are things that therapists do that have nothing to do with bringing up the past.

Alyssa Scolari [17:13]:

Listen, are we going to bring it up in the sense that we're like, "Oh, you have a history of this. And therefore we need this type of treatment"? Yes. But it's not going to be like, "Well, if you're not willing to tell me the details of your abuse, then you're really not ready for therapy." That's not the case at all. Therapists, myself included, have clients who come in and work with them and we never know the details of their abuse. I have people that have come in my office and I have never known the details of what happened to them, because we are focused on the present, we are focused on what's coming up right now, and how we can change that. We are focused on regulating the nervous system so that you can move forward in your future and live a happy and healthy life.

Alyssa Scolari [18:06]:

Myth number three. Myth number three is that all therapy is only a venting session, and I'm not going because I'm just going to pay somebody to listen to me and it's going to be useless. Well, I am here to tell you that if you are feeling like every single session, if you have therapy and you feel like every single session is venting session, and that your therapist is barely even saying anything in response to you, or if you are afraid to go to therapy because you feel like it might be a waste of money because you think that every single session is just venting, that is so not the case.

Alyssa Scolari [18:45]:

And again, if you are feeling like you are just venting in therapy and getting nothing out of it, then you should talk to your therapist about that. You absolutely should bring that up with your therapist because that is so not the case. Sometimes I try to not cut people off, but I try to redirect people. And I try to be very open about it. If I can see that somebody's just venting, I never want to take advantage of somebody's time. And so if I feel like somebody is just venting, I want to ask them, as a therapist, I'm going to be like, "Hey, you had a really rough week and it seems like you've got a lot you want to say. Do you want me to sit here and let you drive so that you can get all of this out. I'll sit in the passenger seat. You take the wheel, you drive, so you can get all of this out. And then when you're done and you're good and ready, whether it's this session or the next session, then we can go from there."

Alyssa Scolari [19:48]:

And sometimes they'll say yes, and sometimes they'll be like, "No, no, that's not what I want." Because therapy should not always be just venting, therapy should be a dialogue. And sometimes if I feel like somebody is just venting, I want to make them aware of it because what I don't want to happen is them to come in vent for the entire hour and then be like, "Oh my God, all I did was just repeat everything that I told my friend last night and I feel no different." I want to be able to allow space to be able to support that person, help that person, give them tools, give them feedback, link patterns that I see, ask them what could have been done differently, what can we do differently in the future? Have you tried this? Have you tried that? What do you think about this is? Etc. So it is really not just a venting session, I promise you that.

Alyssa Scolari [20:41]:

Myth number four, this is one of my favorites, one of my favorites. And it's actually one of my favorites because I think it's the most important and it breaks my heart so much. Myth number four is I can't tell my therapist how I'm truly feeling about my suicidal thoughts because they're going to send me to a hospital and I'm going to get admitted. They're going to lock me up and throw away the key. I cannot even begin to tell you how common of a fear this is. It is such a common fear, especially among, I think children, because children before they get to a therapist, typically have spoken to their guidance counselors in school.

Alyssa Scolari [21:31]:

And if children have shared with their guidance counselors in school that they feel suicidal, their guidance counselors have to send them to a hospital, like have to. So kids, I think a lot of times already have this idea in their head that it's not okay to be suicidal. And it is infuriating to me. I understand that schools do this because it's like a liability thing, but it is infuriating to me how much we criminalize. My complaint is a reflection on the system, honestly, because as we criminalize people who have suicidal thoughts, it's like punishment. It's like, "Oh, you want to hurt yourself? Okay. Well, now you have to go to this hospital where you're going to be further traumatized."

Alyssa Scolari [22:18]:

And this isn't just kids, it's adults too. You're going to get evaluated, they're going to pat you down. They're going to make sure you don't have any weapons on you. Nothing that you can use to hurt yourself. And I think that's what people jump to when they think like, "I'm having suicidal thoughts. I can't tell anybody this." Now, listen, there are some times where we do have to send you to the hospital or to a crisis center. I'm going to tell you what those times are. And this might differ to pending on therapist's comfort levels, but it shouldn't differ too much for the most part, and it's a conversation that your therapist should absolutely have with you within the first session.

Alyssa Scolari [23:04]:

I never let people walk out of my office without having this conversation with them the first time I meet them. So if you are feeling suicidal, I am not going to send you to the hospital or your therapist shouldn't send you to the hospital right away. If you tell me that you have a plan to end your life and that you cannot keep yourself safe, you have to go to a hospital. It's not necessarily that you walk in and you're like, "I am so overwhelmed. I fucking hate everything and I don't want to live anymore." At that point, I'm not like, "Oh, you said it. I'm picking up the phone. I'm calling 911. The ambulance is on their way. I'm going to handcuff you to the fricking couch so that you can't move."

Alyssa Scolari [23:54]:

I think this is what so many people envision. It's more the case that it's like, if you can't tell me how you're going to be safe, if you are in such a bad place that you can't use skills, if you don't have anybody at home that can help you, if you don't have a support system, and all that is there is you and your plan to end your life and there's nothing else to intervene, yeah, we got to send you to the hospital. We have to, because can't help you if you're dead. And regardless of what people may believe, we care so, so much. And at that point, as a therapist who you see maybe once a week, it's out of our control.

Alyssa Scolari [24:39]:

It's a horrible place to be in, but if you are not in that place and you are like, "I'm suicidal and I've thought about how I might do it, but I don't plan to do it right now, I don't really want to do it right now. I have a loving family at home," or, "I have a partner at home that knows," or, "I have this protective factor or that protective factor, a friend group, or my religion, or my this or that," whatever it can be. I'm drawing a blank right now, we're not going to send you to the hospital for that. Or again, I'm not sending somebody to the hospital for that. Now, if those symptoms are continuing to get worse, then we might need to talk about a higher level of care, not necessarily the hospital.

Alyssa Scolari [25:31]:

A hospital or a crisis center is for exactly that, a crisis, which is, "I am either going to hurt myself or somebody else and I am not well enough to be able to use any skills right now. I don't think I can stop it. This feels out of my control. I don't want anybody's help, I am done on this earth. Goodbye." We've got to get you to the hospital. And this can differ in some cases, perhaps you had a suicide attempt and then you just come out of a hospital and maybe you don't necessarily plan on taking your life right then in that moment, but maybe you still have a plan. You still have a plan and you still want to die.

Alyssa Scolari [26:14]:

Well, I'm probably going to be like, "Yeah, no, I'm still not good enough as a once a week outpatient therapist, we need you in a higher level of care," whether that's inpatient, whether that's partial hospitalization, whatever that may be. So it really does differ case by case, but I say this not to scare you, but I say this to try to comfort you, because I think that we are afraid to talk about our suicidal thoughts. And listen, I hate that the system is the way that it is because the hospitals are set up to feel like a punishment. It's not a nice, warm, cozy place where you can go and rest your head and feel like people are going to take care of you. It's not a pretty site to be in a hospital. I know.

Alyssa Scolari [26:54]:

I would know, I had to go to one. So it's horrible, it's traumatizing. And I wish it was better. I hate the system because then you know what, when somebody goes to a hospital once, they feel less inclined to speak up about their suicidal thoughts if they have them again because it was so traumatizing the first time. I wish we could turn this whole fucking system on its head and I hate it. But with that being said, this is not me telling you to not speak out. If you are having suicidal thoughts or feelings, you need to, because at the end of the day, whatever you witness in a hospital, you can heal from. You cannot heal if you are dead.

Alyssa Scolari [27:38]:

So whatever shitty things happen in a hospital, you know what, we'll work through that, we will get through that. I will help you. The brain is amazing. I can't necessarily help you, your therapist will help you. I could help you if you're one of my clients, but the brain is incredibly neuroplasticity. The brain has the ability to heal, you will heal. You cannot heal if you are not alive. So if you are feeling like you cannot keep your self safe, yes, we've got to get you to a hospital. But if you are just feeling like I don't really want to be here anymore, I wish I could just close my eyes and not wake up, and you don't necessarily have a full-fledged plan, I'm not sending to the hospital. Whew, I feel like that was really long-winded. I am clearly very passionate about that. So I hope that makes sense.

Alyssa Scolari [28:28]:

Myth number five, therapy is not confidential. Some people are afraid to talk to a therapist because they think that therapists can share their information. People don't realize the level of confidentiality that we need to abide by. It is the law, and we could get in so much trouble for breaking confidentiality. So that is not at all the case. We can break confidentiality if we have your written permission to do so in the form of a release of information. So you sign a release of information that says, I am allowing my therapist to speak to, I don't know, my primary care doctor, let's say for example. We can also break confidentiality if you are threatening to hurt somebody else, we have a duty to warn.

Alyssa Scolari [29:24]:

So we have to warn somebody if you are threatening to hurt that person. And we also can break confidentiality if we feel that you are a danger to yourself. So a danger to someone else or a danger to yourself, those are the only times we can break confidentiality. Other than that, we cannot, will not, do not say anything. We cannot even, let's say, you're in therapy and your partner is really, really worried about you, and your partner decides that they're going to call me. And they're like, "Hey, it's so and so's boyfriend, I'm just really, really worried. I really want to talk to you." I won't even return that phone call. And if I pick up the phone and they tell me who they are, I will say, "I can neither confirm nor deny anybody working with me without a release of the information. Goodbye."

Alyssa Scolari [30:23]:

I cannot even confirm that you are a client. Therapist cannot even confirm that you are a client. That is how extensive our confidentiality is. I cannot. If you are a child and you have a parent who sends me an email, I don't say much. Now, I technically can. The law is a little bit different with kids depending on the age, but because I am so protective of people's privacy and confidentiality, I often tell parents upfront, like, "This is how I operate." Because technically depending on their age, according to the law, there is information and that I have to disclose and divulge to parents.

Alyssa Scolari [31:04]:

It's a whole thing, not something that I'm going to get into, but as an adult, I could never even confirm originally, even if it was a doctor who called me, if they didn't have a release of information, I would say, "I can either confirm nor deny that I am working with this person without a release of information. Goodbye." So please know that therapy is entire confidential unless they have a release of information, your therapist has a release of information, or there is a threat or danger of harm to oneself or someone else.

Alyssa Scolari [31:36]:

Myth number six, you'll be in therapy forever. Oh, heck, no. The goal is to put ourselves out of a job as therapists. I want to put myself out of a job. I don't want you to be in therapy forever, that is not at all the goal. My goal is to make it so that you are okay to go out there and live on your own. Now, if you want to be in therapy forever, that is a different thing, a whole different thing. But the way that I work is yes, I do believe sometimes we do need to talk about the past, if you want to, if you're comfortable with that.

Alyssa Scolari [32:15]:

But my goal was to help regulate your nervous system and to help your brain heal from the trauma that you endured. That way you can live your life. So no, it's really never a therapist job to meet you and be like, "Oh, we're going to know each other forever." No, unless you want that. But therapy is time consuming, it can be expensive, and I'm aware of that. So my goal is to help you on your way and make myself unnecessary. And that's the way it should be for all therapists, really.

Alyssa Scolari [32:51]:

Myth number seven. Are we on myth number seven at this point? I think so. I think we are. All therapy is this same? No, no, no, not true. All therapy is very, very different. Every single therapist, even therapists who practice the same exact techniques will be different, because as therapists, we can't help, but bring who we are into the job, into our practice. So therapy with every single person is going to be different, but there's also many different types of therapy. There's dialectical behavioral therapy, where we're very heavily working on skills to help you stay emotionally regulated so that the intensity of your emotions isn't off the charts.

Alyssa Scolari [33:40]:

There's cognitive behavioral therapy, where we are working to change your thoughts and change the narrative in your head. There's EMDR, which I've talked about on here. There are a million different types of therapy out there, a million different approaches, and it is not a one-size-fits-all, which is why, as I mentioned in last week's episode, it's really important to try out a different therapist if you're not feeling like you're getting what you want from therapist you have, or talk to your therapist, because sometimes I take on different approaches based on what the feedback is from my client.

Alyssa Scolari [34:25]:

All right. The last one that I have for you, which is myth number eight, is therapists will tell you what to do and they will give you advice. This isn't necessarily the case at all, really. I don't tell people what to do. I hate to be told what to do, and I never want anyone telling me at all what to do, literally with anything, to the point where if you came in and told me the building was on fire and that I needed to jump out the window, I'll be like, "No, because you told me what to do." I am just, I hate it so much. And nobody likes it. Nobody likes to be told what to do. So we don't do that. We are not there to be like, "Oh, well, if you want to be happy, you just have to do this, this, this, and this. And then you'll be happy."

Alyssa Scolari [35:16]:

We are there to help you figure out how you can be happy. Now, yes, we are going to teach you skills, we are going to offer you ideas and maybe try to advise you on your options, but we will never say, "Oh, yeah, you need to take that job." Or, "No, you don't need to take that job." Or, "You need to break up with that person." I think this is also why a lot of people steer clear from going to therapy, especially when they're in relationship troubles, because people are so used to talking to... Have you ever had like a relationship trouble and you will talk to like a close friend or a family member and they'll be like, "You just need to dump his ass," or, "You just need to dump her ass or their ass"?

Alyssa Scolari [36:05]:

And it's like, "No, that's not what I'm doing, I don't want to." I think people are afraid of going to therapy because they don't want to hear that same crap. They don't want hear a therapist being like, "Ugh, you didn't break up with him again this week? Well, what are you doing? Why aren't you doing that?" No, we don't play like that. We don't do that. If you are not breaking up with somebody, that's your prerogative. That's your choice, it's your decision to make. Maybe you don't need to, maybe you're going to marry this person. Why would I tell you to break up with somebody?

Alyssa Scolari [36:38]:

If you're being abused, even then, I still wouldn't tell you what to do. I would call out what's happening. I will say, "This is abuse. This is gas lighting. This is this, this is that." But I'm not going to say, "You need to leave and you need to leave now." And the same holds true for really any kind of situation, again, unless you are threatening to harm someone else, or you are really threatening to hurt yourself, then that's when I'm like, "You have to go to a hospital," or, "I have to call this person and warn them." That's really the only time where therapists should be telling you directly what you have to do. We are there to guide you, we are there to let you know your options, we are there to point out things you might not see because of blind spots. We all have them, but we are not there to give you advice and tell you what to do. We are here to empower you, to make those decisions for yourself.

Alyssa Scolari [37:40]:

So those are the eight myths. There you have it. This has been a fun episode. This is fun to talk about. I hope that this helps. And if you notice any of these things that are coming up in your therapy session, talk to your therapist about it because it's important. It's important. I think this is what keeps people from, maybe not even... just that it keeps people from going to therapy, but it might also keep people from opening up when they are in therapy. So it's important stuff and I felt like it was a really good supplement to last week's episode, where we talked about how to find the right therapist for you. So that said, the one thing that I did forget to mention in the beginning of this episode is that March is over, so we are all done with the fundraiser for Ukraine.

Alyssa Scolari [38:34]:

In case you missed it, anybody who became a Patreon member for the month of March, any money that you donated from March, I was going to personally match, and we were going to donate it to Doctors Without Borders to fund the efforts in Ukraine. So we got about $50 and then I put in 60 of my own dollars. So we together are donating $110 to Ukraine, which is great. And if you are wanting to see the receipt for that, I have posted it on the Instagram page, our Instagram page, and that is lightaftertrauma. So head on over to our Instagram, you can see the receipt for the donation. Thank you so much for that.

Alyssa Scolari [39:21]:

You can still become a Patreon member. Any support you're able to give to the podcast would be great, whether it's becoming a Patreon member, leaving a review, I love it all. So thankful for the support, you all are amazing. I'm holding you in the light, and I will see you next week.

Alyssa Scolari [39:39]:

Thanks for listening everyone. For more information, please head over to lightaftertrauma.com, or you can also follow us on social media. On Instagram, we are @lightaftertrauma, and on Twitter, it is @lightafterpod. Lastly, please head over to patreon.com/lightaftertrauma to support our show. We are asking for $5 a month, which is the equivalent to a cup of coffee at Starbucks. So please head on over, again, that's patreon.com/lightaftertrauma. Thank you. And we appreciate your support.

Where do I even begin to look for a therapist? How do I know what I can afford? How can I know if I've found the right therapist for me? If you're thinking about getting a therapist but are feeling overwhelmed by all of it, this is the episode for you! Alyssa discusses some simple ways to begin looking for a therapist as well as how you can feel empowered in choosing the right person to help you on your healing journey.

**Every donation to Patreon for the month of March will go to Doctors Without Borders to help support those injured in Ukraine. Alyssa will personally match your donation. See the podcast Patreon and learn more about Doctors Without Borders below!**

Learn more about Doctors Without Borders

Check out the Light After Trauma website for transcripts, other episodes, Alyssa's guest appearances, and more at: www.lightaftertrauma.com

Want to get more great content and interact with the show? Check us out on Instagram: @lightaftertrauma

We need your help! We want to continue to make great content that can help countless trauma warriors on their journey to recovery. So, please help us in supporting the podcast by becoming a recurring patron of the show via Patreon:

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Transcript

Alyssa Scolari [00:23]:

Hello. Welcome back to another episode of the Light After Trauma podcast. I am your host, Alyssa Scolari, and we are back with another solo episode, took a little bit of a break last week and recycled an older episode about EMDR. And I hope that you all liked it because I know so many of you are new to this podcast. And we did that EMDR episode over a year ago at this point. And I think that it's a really good episode. It's one of my favorites that we've ever done on the show. Melissa Parks is amazing. So if you have not listened to it, I strongly encourage you to go check it out, because I think it's awesome. And part of the reason why I recycled that episode last week is because I've had quite a busy week this week and I really needed some time for just relaxation and recuperation.

Alyssa Scolari [01:19]:

I know I was mentioning in the last episode that things with my private practice have been a little bit just very hectic good, but, well, good and stressful, but hectic, nonetheless. And I also started EMDR myself. So at the time that I'm recording this, I had my first session this morning and I was so nervous. I really did not think I would be that nervous, but I have to say I loved it. It's really funny because I am so stubborn that it is infuriating, even to me sometimes. I have heard through and through from so many people that EMDR is exhausting, it's so tiring. It's really difficult for folks. It's very intensive. And so I walked into this guy's office, the therapist's office and he said exactly that he was like, I just want you to know this is, it's a really exhausting process. So make sure that your schedule is as clear as it can be for the rest of the day after your sessions. And I was like, eh, I'll be fine. It's fine. I'll power through, how exhausting can it be?

Alyssa Scolari [02:40]:

Oh my God, I was so wrong. I was so wrong. By six o'clock this evening, I could barely keep my eyes open. I had to just go take a shower and get ready for bed. And I had some dinner and I feel like I have a little bit more energy and I really wanted to record, because I wanted to talk about the stuff while it's fresh on my mind. So I have some energy, so I'm here recording, but honestly the first session was really good. We didn't get too deep into anything, but I was really proud of myself for going. And this therapist that I have is a male. And that was a really, really big challenge for me to have a male therapist. And I chose a male therapist almost intentionally. It's really hard to find a therapist right now.

Alyssa Scolari [03:33]:

Therapists, the demand is so high and there are few and far between. So it's really hard to find one. And I had reached out to a few women who specialized in EMDR and they did not have any openings. And then I found this place, this trauma center and the only people who had availability were male. And I was thinking to myself and I was like, do I want to do this? And I, even the thought of working with a male was really starting to make me upset. Just the thought was causing me a distress. And honestly, I took that as a sign that it's like, okay, I need to work on this. If just thinking about interacting with a male, aside from my husband, of course, is causing me that much stress, then maybe that's a sign that I actually should do this and should try to face my fear and process this and work through it. And I have to say, I'm really glad I did.

Alyssa Scolari [04:41]:

And now listen, that's not going to be the case for everybody. Please honor your fear response, honor your anxiety, honor where you're at in the moment, because trust me, there were times in my life where I was absolutely not. I never saw myself working with a male, but I just feel like it's time. I feel like it's time. And it went really well. It was really interesting. And I will be very curious to see where this goes and I'm looking forward to sharing it all with you. I have been exhausted, as I said, and I think that it's going to be a really intensive process, but I am really looking forward to feeling better. I couldn't be more excited about this.

Alyssa Scolari [05:31]:

So I feel like I made the right move. And when I was sitting with him today in his office, I realized, you know what? It's actually very, very hard to find the right therapist. And I'm not necessarily going to say a good therapist, because I don't really want to play so much judgment. I feel like most therapists, most, not all, are really doing the best they can. So I don't want to say good versus bad. I want to say the right therapist. It is way harder than I think people really even talk about. And I got very lucky and I don't know, I've only had one session. So who knows, I might go back next week and maybe something will happen and I'll be like, oh my goodness, I don't think this is going to work out. Building that relationship is going to take more than one session.

Alyssa Scolari [06:30]:

But I really liked him in that session. And it's actually rare to meet somebody the first time for therapy and feel like, okay, I got this. This is great. Maybe I shouldn't say rare. But what I should say is, it's not uncommon for people to go through a few different therapists before they find the right one. And I don't know if people even realize that there is a such thing as finding the right therapist. I think that so many folks go to therapy thinking that all therapists are generally the same and they don't realize that they have the power to say, I don't really think this is working for me. I think I might need to look for somebody else. And this just got me thinking about how so many folks don't really even know where to begin with looking for a therapist, because it is such an overwhelming and daunting task. And it's this fear of having to disclose all of your secrets or your trauma or your problems with somebody who is a complete stranger to you. People really don't know what to expect.

Alyssa Scolari [07:50]:

And it just hit me today while I was sitting in there as a first time client with this man, I was just sitting there and I was like, oh, I need to talk about this on the podcast, because people don't know, people don't realize that they have power and choices and options and they don't know what they should be looking for, where they should be looking. So I want to talk about that today, because even as somebody who's very aware of what it's like to navigate the finding a therapist world, this is what I do for a living. So I know what it's like. But even as somebody who is well aware of the process, it was still hard for me, not so much with this new therapist that I have, but it has still been hard for me in the past to find a therapist.

Alyssa Scolari [08:45]:

And I think that if I knew then what I know now, I wish that I could go back in time and equip my younger self with the tools that I have now to be able to be more selective about the therapists that I work with, because I have had some doozies. I have had some doozies for therapists, for sure. Again, I've had some bad therapists. I am going to play some judgment here. I've had some really shitty therapists, and I've had a very harmful therapists, therapists who have done things that honestly, one day I will tell you all about, but today is not that day. So I am here to talk about this today, to equip you with the tools, if you are somebody who is like, I want to start talking to somebody, but I'm afraid. I don't even know where to begin. It's very overwhelming. Can I afford it? We are going to talk about all of those things today.

Alyssa Scolari [09:40]:

So I want to start off first by talking about finances and touching on it briefly, because it, well, and I should say this. What I'm about to say is not necessarily going to be a universal. So I'm only aware as far as it concerns the United States, but I know we have listeners from all over the world. So I do not know if this is going to still hold true for you if you are in another country. So I'm just going to touch on this briefly. So in the United States, it basically comes down to therapists who accept insurance, and therapists who don't. If you're looking at certain websites for therapists, you might see a very common phrase called out-of-network. An out-of-network therapist means that they do not accept any insurance upfront, meaning that you would have to pay the full fee out-of-pocket.

Alyssa Scolari [10:37]:

Now, it can be very, very expensive to do that, especially if you're in therapy once a week, let's say your session is a hundred dollars an hour. And I don't know, that could be high in some places, that could be lower in some places. But let's say that the therapists fee is a hundred dollars an hour. Well, now you're looking at $400 a month. So these fees can add up. So out-of-network therapists can be expensive. But with that being said, there's something that you should know, which is that your insurance company, depending on what plan you have, may reimburse you a percentage of your therapist's fee. So if you are thinking that you might want to work with an out-of-network therapist, then you would call your insurance company and ask what are my out-of-network benefits for mental and be behavioral health.

Alyssa Scolari [11:40]:

And at that point, your insurance company is going to say, well, you don't have any on your plan, or, well, we will reimburse you 70% of every session. And if the therapist fee is a hundred dollars and your insurance is going to reimburse you 70%, what they're going to do is every 30 days, they're going to mail you a check. Well, I shouldn't say every 30 days, I think that it depends on the insurance company, but they're going to mail you a check for 70%, meaning you're now only paying $30 a session. Now, of course, that's assuming that you have that money to be able to put up front, that can also be a problem for folks. So these are just things for you to think about, but don't automatically shy away from out-of-network therapists because you never know, your insurance company might actually pay for a part of it. Of course, your insurance company doesn't like to tell you that, because they would rather have you see somebody in-network, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

Alyssa Scolari [12:45]:

And then, of course, you have your in-network therapists, and these are therapists who accept your insurance and you would pay, I think probably a smaller copay or really depends on your insurance plan, $30, $5, $10. And your therapist would be in charge for billing your insurance. And then the insurance company would pay your therapist. As opposed to you paying your therapist with an out-of-network person and your insurance then reimbursing you, it would be you just pay the copay and then your insurance company will pay your therapist. I hope that was not too confusing, but those are basically the two categories when it comes to looking at finances. And so you really want to think about that, in terms of the differences and competency levels. Honestly, I have a therapist who's out-of-network and I have a therapist who's also in-network right now. I have two therapists right now.

Alyssa Scolari [13:44]:

Is that a little bit out of the ordinary? Yes. Ideally we do not want to have more than one therapist, because things can get very messy. And who wants that much therapy? The reason that I have two therapists right now is because I am doing EMDR, which is a short term type of treatment. And I am sticking with the therapist that I have been with for quite some time now. So I just added a second therapist for the EMDR component, but it's definitely not a typical thing to have two therapists. So as I said, one of my therapists is out-of-network, one of my therapists is in-network. And I love, the therapist that I have been with the longest is in-network. My EMDR therapist is out-of-network, and I love the therapist that I have now. She's amazing. She has taught me so much. She has helped me heal from so much.

Alyssa Scolari [14:47]:

So I really can't say anything about the competency levels. It really isn't like, oh, this person's out-of-network, because they have a greater skillset and they're better. No, no, I really don't feel like that way whether it's in-network versus out-of-network. I also really don't feel that way when it comes to the degree type either. I have met people with master's degrees who are therapists and they are phenomenal, but I've also met psychologists, people with doctorate degrees who are also phenomenal. So none of that stuff really matters. Really the point in knowing if you have out-of-network benefits or not, is so you know what your options are, what are my choices when I'm going to look at a therapist? Because one of the most upsetting feelings is when you doing your research online and you go and you think you find a therapist and you read all through their profile and you love what you're reading. And you're like, oh my goodness. I think I could really see myself working with this person. And then you reach out to them and they're like, ah, I'm out-of-network. I'm out-of-network. I don't accept your insurance.

Alyssa Scolari [16:04]:

And then it just becomes disappointing because then you're like back to square one. So I think it's important to know what your options are. And I think it's something that's important to look out for when you are doing your searches. And speaking of searches, where do you search? Where do you even begin? One of the most common search engines for therapists and really for anything obviously is Google, but there are also some different sites where you can check off certain qualifications or specifications, especially when it comes to insurance, or when it comes to the type of therapy that you're looking for. And you can do that, there's a website called psychology today. So if you're not familiar with it, you can go right to www.psychologytoday.com, and then you can list either your zip code or the town that you live in and your insurance and your age. And then it will give you a list of all therapists in that area that meet those very specific qualifications.

Alyssa Scolari [17:09]:

That saves you a lot of time, because then you're not rifling through Google, looking for therapist after therapist, having to click on the page, read through, see if they take insurance, websites like Psychology Today save if you a ton of time. And then there's also a website called GoodTherapy. That is very, very helpful for people too, so I think it's www.goodtherapy.com. And there are other websites, but those are two of the main ones that I see. There's definitely a bunch of others. So you will certainly find them, even if you just google therapist, therapist websites, or websites to search for a therapist on, you will find plenty, but it was probably a lot more time saving for you to go through a website like that rather than Google.

Alyssa Scolari [18:03]:

Now, with that being said, not every therapist is necessarily listed on those websites. So maybe Google will be your friend. Who knows. It's difficult. It's one of those things when you have to try to see for yourself what feels right for you. So, that's just the therapist search. Then comes scheduling an appointment and getting in the door. That is the hardest part is showing up to your first session. And I feel like so many people don't realize when they go to their first session, that they are interviewing the therapist just as much as the therapist is questioning or interviewing them.

Alyssa Scolari [18:51]:

I don't think people realize that they can ask questions to their therapist. They can ask about their degrees. You can ask about their specialties, their training, their experiences. These are things you would want to know, because ultimately you are entrusting this person with your care. And if you went to a doctor and you hated that doctor, you wouldn't go back to that doctor. I would hope not. You would be like, forget that doctor. I'm never going back. Same thing goes for a therapist. I don't know if people really understand the variability that comes among therapists. And it really is a matter of you trying to find what you are looking for. Some people want a therapist who is a blank slate, who can sit there and be like a mirror who just reflects back what you're saying. Some people really want that. Some people hate that. Some people want a therapist who is a little bit more involved, who can give. Some advice, who can give some opinions and thoughts. Some people are looking for that.

Alyssa Scolari [20:01]:

It completely depends. You might not even know what you're looking for until you walk in, until you walk right into the office and sit down and start talking to that person, you might be like, I don't even know if I'm feeling this or, oh, I really do like this. Here's the thing about therapy. And I say this to everybody who comes in my office, their very first session, any single one of my clients can attest to the fact that I've had this spiel with them. The most important predictor of success in therapy is the relationship that you have with your therapist. So, if at the end of the day you aren't looking forward to talking to your therapist. If you don't really care for your therapist that much. If you disagree with the way your therapist does things, you are not going to really make much progress or headway in therapy, because the most important thing is feeling like you have a good connection and a good relationship.

Alyssa Scolari [21:07]:

So I encourage you when you do start meeting with therapists, and when you do sit down for those appointments, ask questions, maybe write down ahead of time what kind of questions do you have? What would you want to know about somebody who you are entrusting with your trauma? What would you want to know? Some things that I'd like to know is what's your experience with this? What types of trauma have you worked with? Something I would like to know is why? Why do you do what you do? I think that's a really important question. I really like vulnerability. I think that when you are able to see your therapist as a human being, I think that, that can be really, really powerful.

Alyssa Scolari [21:58]:

So maybe ask that question, why did you choose to do that? And again, you're not asking so you can get your therapist to disclose their deepest, darkest vulnerabilities, but it's just like, why do you care? It's almost like, why do you care about me? Why would you care about this? What do you do this for? Any therapist, I think would be more than happy to answer that question. And along with any other questions you may have that aren't, again, super invasive. You don't want walk in there and be like, how many kids do you have? Do you have a history of trauma? Are you married? Have you ever had an addiction? We're not grilling them. We're not grilling them, but asking questions that pertain to you and the treatment process. You are interviewing your therapist.

Alyssa Scolari [22:48]:

And if you don't like it, you don't have to stay. That is one of the most important things. I wish I had known this when I was younger, the very first therapist I ever had. Oh, for the love of God, she was great. However, she couldn't be great all of the time and nobody can. I'm not expecting perfection. But what I mean by that is when she was focused, she was really helpful to me. But there were so many times throughout our sessions where I would be talking about something horrific. I had just gotten out of an abusive relationship. My whole family turned against me. Nobody was talking to me. I was so lost and so isolated because everybody blamed me for what happened.

Alyssa Scolari [23:55]:

So I am about as raw and as vulnerable as I could possibly be. And I would be sitting there trying to talk to her, and in the middle of me talking, she would cut me off because she would be like, oh my God, I have to get up and I have to fix the blinds. The blinds are uneven. The blinds are uneven. I'm sorry, I have ADHD. I'm sorry, I have ADHD. And she would say that to me, I would be in the middle, not to mention during this time I was so sick with anorexia, that it is actually very upsetting to even think about. And I remember there was this one time where I was telling her that I was not eating. I was like, hey, I think that I have a little bit of a problem, because I'm not eating, and I hate my body all of the time.

Alyssa Scolari [24:48]:

And in the middle of me trying to say that, she cut me off and was like, oh my God, do you see these curtains? Do you see how uneven they are? And there was another chair sitting next to me in the office. Yo, this woman, this woman got up out of her chair, walked over to me, stepped up on the chair next to me, took the curtain rod off and was readjusting the curtains as I was trying to tell her that I was not eating. And then she had really no remorse. I don't even think she realized how inappropriate it was. I didn't even realize it, because I had never had another therapist. I didn't realize that was wrong. I was so used to being ignored and unheard.

Alyssa Scolari [25:45]:

And so I'm like, okay, well, she's just not listening to me right now. So, that's an extreme example. I'm not saying that you are going to maybe pick up on something like that, because I actually don't think most therapists do that. She was wildly inappropriate. I hope most therapists don't do that. If they do, we've got problems, we've got big problems. But look for things that make you feel uncomfortable. And when I say look for things, I don't mean actively seek out and try to find something wrong with your therapist. Listen, none of us are perfect. Are you kidding me? There are times where I have cut people off. I've been aware of it. There are times where I have said things that I have meant to be helpful, but were not helpful, and may have been hurtful. And I've had to own that and sit with that. We are not perfect.

Alyssa Scolari [26:47]:

So I'm not saying go looking for something that's wrong. What I'm saying is pay attention to those feelings in your gut that say, I don't know if this is going to work. If you're really feeling uncomfortable and not really wanting to talk or open up, pay attention to that, try to figure out why? Maybe it is something you talk to your therapist about. I actually think that, that is the way to go. If you're not feeling something, or if you have concerns about something, talk to your therapist about it if you feel safe. If you don't feel safe, and if you're like, this person is absolutely not the one for me, and I feel really unsafe emotionally, not physically, if you feel physically unsafe, well, again, we got real big problems than we got to talk, but I'm talking about a sense of emotional safety here.

Alyssa Scolari [27:46]:

So those are things you need to pay attention to. And if you feel like you can't bring it up with your therapist, or you just don't feel comfortable talking to your therapist about it, then maybe that's a sign that this isn't the right therapist for you. And maybe not. Maybe it's just a sign that you've had a bad week. What I'm saying here, the advice that I'm giving, it's not a blanket statement. It's not blanket advice, meaning it's not something that's going to apply in every single situation. I love the therapist I have now, but I can tell you that there are some days where I'm like, I can't talk to her today. I can't open up to her today, but that doesn't have anything to do with her making me uncomfortable.

Alyssa Scolari [28:27]:

I hope that this is making sense for you all who are listening on the other side, because I do not want you to walk away from this thinking, oh, well, I felt like I couldn't really open up to my therapist today. So they must be terrible and I must not be doing this right. And I must need a new therapist. I'm not saying that at all. I'm just saying that you have the power to walk away. You have the power to ask questions and that you are in the driver's seat. You are the one in control here. Yes, your therapist is technically an authoritative figure. Your therapist is the professional there helping you as the client, but this is your treatment. This is your care. And nobody knows the way to help you better than you, not even the best therapist on the face of the planet.

Alyssa Scolari [29:21]:

So I just want you to feel empowered, to be able to recognize that and make those decisions. I wish that I knew what I know now about being able to walk away from a therapist, about the fact that it's okay if you don't click with a therapist. That's totally fine, and even normal. I remember I had another therapist who I saw for a few sessions and I was, again, this was when I was in the thick of my anorexia and I was hating my body. I was really, really severe with a body dysmorphia. And this therapist kept saying, but Alyssa, you're beautiful. You're beautiful. You're skinny. And you're so pretty. And it made me really uncomfortable. I didn't understand why back then, because I really didn't know much about eating disorders. I didn't even understand that I had an eating disorder.

Alyssa Scolari [30:22]:

And we know now, I know now that, that's not the thing to say to somebody who is struggling with that kind of stuff, it's really not at all. It just further terrified me because I knew that I was incapable of remaining that thin for the rest of my life. And she was glorifying me for my thinness, but you're beautiful and you're thin and you have nothing to worry about. So there was a little bit of some fat phobia there. She was not an eating disorder therapist, and it was not a good fit. I didn't feel that I could tell her that. And so I totally ghosted her and I really do regret it, because being a therapist now, I know that's not a good feeling. It's a horrible feeling when clients ghost you. And I wish that I had the tools back then to know, hey, it's okay to say, I'm sorry, but I just don't think we're a good fit, but thank you for your time, in a simple email.

Alyssa Scolari [31:30]:

I wish I would've done that. I didn't. And I don't even remember her name at this point, but again, I think I would've saved myself so much trouble and I would've felt less guilty about leaving and walking away. And I would've found a therapist who was a better fit for me much sooner if I knew that I could. So I hope that this is making sense and that this is helpful. It's so important when it comes to trying to find somebody who can help you, because this isn't something to be taken lightly. The person that you want to help you is going to be there for you in your most vulnerable moments. And that's not something that I want you or anybody to walk into blindly, or feeling like you don't have control. You have control. Just because you have one session with a therapist does not mean that you are committed, and your voice matters in therapy.

Alyssa Scolari [32:41]:

So if you are thinking about starting therapy, or if you're with a therapist right now that you don't know if it's really doing you a whole lot of good, or you don't really know if you're connecting very well. These are just some things I want you to think about. Start asking questions, start doing some reflection, start seeing if there's anyone else out there who you think might be a little bit better for you, or maybe just consider the fact that you're having a really bad week and it's really hard to open up. I can't answer that for you, I wish I could, but I do know that if you keep these things in mind that I've talked about today, it's going to help get you the answers that you need, and it's going to help get you better therapy. Therapy where you feel comfortable, where you can be vulnerable, therapy that isn't breaking the bank, all of the above.

Alyssa Scolari [33:38]:

So on that note, I will close off by saying thank you as always for all of the support. Just some housekeeping things. So for the entire month of March, we are making donations to Doctors Without Borders, who are right now helping in Ukraine. And you can go right to the links in the show notes and learn more about Doctors Without Borders. But if you sign up to become a Patreon member for the month of March, whatever you donate for March on my Patreon, I will match your donation and that money will go directly to Doctors Without Borders. Thank you so much for the patrons who have signed up so far. It is really exciting. Also remember that if you are a patron, you can message me on there and you can ask for specific episode topics that I'd be more than happy to talk about. And again, all of it is in the show notes. And I am wishing you all a wonderful week. I love you all. I am so grateful for the support. I am holding you in the light and I will see you next week.

Alyssa Scolari [34:56]:

Thanks for listening everyone. For more information, please head over to lightaftertrauma.com, or you can also follow us on social media. On Instagram we are at Light After Trauma, and on Twitter it is at Light After Pod. Lastly, please head over to patreon.com/lightaftertrauma to support our show. We are asking for $5 a month, which is the equivalent to a cup of coffee at Starbucks. So please head on over, again, that's patreon.com/lightaftertrauma. Thank you. And we appreciate your support.

Speaker 4 [35:33]:

Sunday morning lost my shoes, I got [lust 00:35:47] in you.

REDUX: Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) is one of the leading treatments for PTSD. Melissa Parks breaks down how this therapy can help you recover and why it is so highly effective. NEW: Alyssa also shares her personal journey with starting this type of treatment.

**Every donation to Patreon for the month of March will go to Doctors Without Borders to help support those injured in Ukraine. Alyssa will personally match your donation. See the podcast Patreon and learn more about Doctors Without Borders below!**

Patreon

Learn more about Doctors Without Borders

Check out the Light After Trauma website for transcripts, other episodes, Alyssa's guest appearances, and more at: www.lightaftertrauma.com

Want to get more great content and interact with the show? Check us out on Instagram: @lightaftertrauma

Transcript

Alyssa Scolari [00:23]:

Hey everybody, what's up? Welcome back to another episode of the Light After Trauma Podcast. I'm your host, Alyssa Scolari, and I am recording this episode on a gorgeous Friday morning. I am in a good mood. But it has honestly been a rough week, or I should say like a rough couple of weeks. I don't know what is going on or what is in the air, but man, I just feel like things have been so hard. It's just, I think there's a lot going on between people trying to get back to living a semi-normal life or a new normal and everybody is having parties and hosting things. And it's really exciting, but as somebody who is like an introvert inside and somebody who has really spent a lot of time indoors over the last two years for the pandemic, it causes me kind of a lot of anxiety to suddenly go from not being invited anywhere to being invited to all of these places every single weekend.

Alyssa Scolari [01:31]:

And just things with my practice, like my private practice have been, I don't want to say difficult, but not the easiest or the happiest I should say. Not that I'm unhappy in my job, I love what I do, but there are times where this job is really hard and I have had to set a lot of firm boundaries the last couple of weeks. And setting boundaries is really, really hard for me, it's extremely triggering. Because when I set a boundary, I have this massive fear that something bad is going to happen. So, it's just been a week for me filled with a lot of anxiety, still recovering from surgery, still going to physical therapy. So, whatever, it's really neither here nor there.

Alyssa Scolari [02:21]:

All of that is to say that it's been difficult. I'm in a good mood today, the sun is shining, but the last few weeks have been a little bit rough for me. And with that being said, this week's episode is an episode that was recorded and that went live a year, a little more than a year ago, so early March of 2021. And I am replaying it today because it is very fitting and it's one of our most popular episodes. But it came out when the podcast was very, very new. So, for everybody who is new, this episode might be brand new for you. And even if it's not, it's something that's important to listen to even again and something that you may or may not want to consider.

Alyssa Scolari [03:10]:

And so, basically, what we're doing today is I am reposting the EMDR episode. So, EMDR is this specific type of trauma therapy that is used to treat both standard PTSD and complex PTSD, and it has a ton of research backing its effectiveness. And it really works on rewiring the brain. Because trauma is rooted in the brain, it sometimes makes talk therapy, which sometimes makes talk therapy not enough. Some people do great with talk therapy, and for some people, it truly isn't enough. I find that with some folks with complex PTSD, talk therapy is not always sufficient. It's definitely necessary, of course, but sometimes we need a little bit more.

Alyssa Scolari [03:59]:

And that has been the case that I have been finding with myself. Last week, we talked about cultivating safety in order to be able to do the trauma work. And the thing about EMDR is that is crucial. You need a sense of safety, because EMDR is intensive and it's very difficult. And that being said, it's also very short-term so it's not something where you're doing for years and years and years. But it's an intensive process. So, I've just been feeling lately like I want to do more to help my nervous system because I've come very far and I'm doing extremely well, but I still have all of these triggers that are just causing my nervous system to go haywire.

Alyssa Scolari [04:49]:

And it is becoming just a really big inconvenience for me to get triggered over a sound, over a site and then have flashbacks. And as much work as I've done, I feel like my brain is still on fire sometimes. So, I have really been feeling like over the last couple of months that now that I'm through my surgery and I'm recovering, I am ready to take my healing to a different level and to try this out. I also really want to try it because if it's something that I find is very effective, I am considering getting trained in it so I can help my clients. So, I am going to be starting EMDR this week and I'm really excited. I am going to be staying with the therapist that I currently have.

Alyssa Scolari [05:43]:

Now, the therapist I currently have is not trained in EMDR, but I am actually bringing on a second therapist and he's going to be more of a short-term therapist because he's the EMDR specialist. So, my first appointment is this week and I'm really excited and also really nervous, and I'm looking forward to bringing you all along on this journey. So, I will, of course, keep you all posted. We will see how it goes. I feel ready for it, I feel ready for this next step in my healing. Not that this step is any better or any worse than any of the other steps, if EMDR is not for you, that is totally fine. But I just think it's interesting to try to explore this option for healing. Why not? I'm in a place where I feel good and ready for it.

Alyssa Scolari [06:37]:

So, that is what is up for this week. I am excitedly and anxiously anticipating it and I thought that it would be helpful for both myself and everybody to relisten to this episode with Melissa, who is the EMDR specialist. She also is on TikTok. She's hysterical, but you will hear all about that in the episode. So, I hope you enjoy. I have found this episode fascinating. EMDR was a very convoluted topic for me and a very seemingly overwhelming type of therapy that I always stayed away from, I never really wanted to look at because it just seemed like too difficult or complex for me. But I think that this episode is really great because Melissa breaks it down and makes it more digestible.

Alyssa Scolari [07:29]:

So, I will stop talking now. Oh, no, I will not stop talking actually, because just a few housekeeping things. Please remember that for the entire month of March, we are donating to Ukraine. So, if you sign up to become a member on Patreon, whatever money that you donate for the first, for the month of March, is going to go directly to Doctors Without Borders to help with the efforts in Ukraine. I have my Patreon linked in the show notes and also of the Doctors Without Borders linked in the show notes so that you can check it out and see if it's something that you're interested in. Thank you so much to people who have already donated. This is so exciting.

Alyssa Scolari [08:09]:

I know that we're a pretty small platform so we're not going to be raising thousands and thousands of dollars, but honestly, any little bit helps and counts and is going to help people in Ukraine so much. So, I'm really excited about this. If you want to be a part of it and you want to donate, please go to the show notes. Again, if you become a Patreon member for the month of March, your first month's donations are going directly to Doctors Without Borders and I am also matching your donation. So, now, I will stop and I will let you get on with the episode where Melissa and I talk about EMDR. I have so much love for you all and I am holding you all on the light, and I'll be back again next week.

intro music

Alyssa Scolari:

Hey all what's up. Welcome to another episode of the Light After Trauma podcast. I'm your host, Alyssa Scolari. And we have here with us today, Melissa Parks. So you have Melissa and Alyssa, so it's going to be a good time. Melissa is an EMDR therapist, as well as a couples therapist. She is devoted to helping you stop the cycle of conflict in your relationships and to understand your nervous system in order to experience more joy, she has been using her expertise and her humor on social media to de-stigmatize mental health, you will often hear her use the phrase you make sense.

So just a quick side note, I found Melissa on Tik-Tok. She is a bomb Tik-Tok maker. I thoroughly enjoy watching all of your Tik-Tok. So when she says that she uses humor as part of her therapy, she is not kidding.

Her Tik-Toks are really funny and I really appreciate them. So, hi, Melissa. Welcome. And thank you for all that you do.

Melissa Parks:

Hey, I'm so glad to be here. Thank you so much for having me. It's a true honor. I'm excited.

Alyssa Scolari:

I'm so excited for you to be here and to talk about a topic that quite honestly, I don't really know a whole lot about. So this is going to be a major learning experience for me as well as a lot of the listeners. So would you be able to share a little bit more on like what you do, who you are and could you break down that like gigantic acronym?

That is EMDR.

Melissa Parks:

Yes. Yes, absolutely. Well, like you so beautifully said, I am a therapist, a couples therapists, EMDR therapist. I do coaching. I do consultation. I do lots of things, but I treat clients in the state of South Carolina and I am so passionate about that. I came into the field and have been licensed for 17 years, and I still feel just as passionate, if not, even more passionate than I was when I first started, I really am on fire for all this stuff.

In terms of EMDR trauma-focused stuff, attachment focused stuff. It's just my favorite. It's just one of my favorite things. So I'm excited to be able to talk about this today to maybe help bridge the understanding for folks because you know, it can be kind of, you know, intimidating when you just, the acronym, like you said, is a little intimidating: Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing.

That's a mouthful.

Alyssa Scolari:

Yes, it is.

Melissa Parks:

It's like what is Well I'd love to take some time to explain some about it and then. Open up for questions. Definitely. But Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing is an evidence-based treatment model, which just means that it has extensive research and it's been proven .It has proven outcomes and way back when it was only used to treat trauma, but now we know that it can treat trauma, it can treat complex trauma, it can treat a myriad of issues, including distressing symptoms, like chronic depression, anxiety, just a whole host of things. So it's not just trauma.

And it's based on a model that theorizes that our current symptoms are a result of unprocessed memories from our past that are showing up in our present. So for example, the brain may have had an experience from the past and it was unable to integrate all the components of that experience. And so what happens is our amazing nervous system comes up for us to protect us, to keep us sane and it fragments that experience into pieces.

And that's what we see in our current day are those fragments of the experience as our symptoms. Overwhelming feelings, body sensations, whatever they are. That's what our symptoms are. That's what this EMDR model is based on. It's basically saying our past is in our present.

Alyssa Scolari:

I gotcha. And when you say just to, and I don't mean to interrupt, I just had a quick thought, when you say unprocessed memories, do you mean repressed memories that are stored in our subconscious that haven't come to conscious, or could it be both, both repressed memories and suppressed memory. So things that we can recall, but just haven't really digested or integrated.

Melissa Parks:

Right, right, right. I would say all the above, I would say all the above and when we're talking, you know, cause I would say all of us have unprocessed memories. So, I mean, we all do, but when it comes to trauma, that's a different story. When it comes to trauma, that's a little bit more in depth, a little bit more intense because with a trauma experience we have an experience that's too much, too soon, too much for too long or too little, for too long.

So think like neglect. And in those situations, the signals from the amygdala, the fear center of the brain are so much, are so intense that the top part of our brain, which usually down-regulates and helps soothe that fear is gone. And this experience causes the integrative functions in the brain to fail.

And so that's where we have that fragmenting that happens. So this is more of what, where I'm talking about the fragmented pieces as it relates to trauma. But yes, I think we all have unprocessed memories. The research talks about this and we learn about this when we're initially being trained in EMDR.

Alyssa Scolari:

Wow. So, so what does that look like in practice? From what I understand, there's lots of, and this could just be one of my own myths or beliefs, there's lots of tapping that happens. Am I right on that one?

Melissa Parks:

Yes, that's what EMDR is known for. But so before I go into that, which is really helpful. So with all that, I just said that, you know, we have these fragmented parts, these assimilated parts of a memory that are showing up in our present. This is why EMDR is so awesome because EMDR is a bottom up brain approach.

It's a treatment of association. So it helps us associate those dissociated parts. And when, I mean, by bottom up, so a lot of treatments out there spend a lot of time in that top part of our brain, which is our more sophisticated part of our brain, which holds more of our thinking stuff, the way that we rationalize.

And we think about things and those are helpful too. But if we have trauma. And if we have all these fragmented pieces that are coming up from our past, we can't think those away. Our body is taking over. And so EMDR comes to help us from the bottom part of the brain to help us associate those things and assimilate those things.

And this is why, you know, it's really important to just put that out there and recognize the impact of EMDR from that perspective, how it treats the brain and how we integrate in that way. But that's what EMDR is known for is the tapping, right. Or the eye movements.

Alyssa Scolari:

That's what I've always heard. Yeah, I'm sure that's only part of it. Yeah. I do want to just say for the listeners out there, you all won't be able to see this, but as Melissa was saying that, you know, talking about bringing these essentially disassociated or disconnected parts and connecting them, she was almost interlacing her fingers, which I think is a really great portrayal of what you're trying to say, which is we're taking all of these pieces and we're integrating them. It is like the full integration of the brain from a bottom up approach instead of surface level down approach. If I'm understanding that correctly.

Melissa Parks:

Yes, you are 100%. And I think it's important to also note here is that EMDR is like a resilience model, which means it believes that we have everything that we need to heal. The clinician is just sort of the conductor and whatnot, but it believes that we are all wired with resilience and that something got in the way, right.

Trauma, for example, got in the way and sort of rewired ourselves towards self protection instead of connection or these other things. But EMDR really operates out of this stance that you have what you need, and that resiliency is there and you are adaptive and we're going to work with all that, which is beautiful.

And why I particularly love this model and that it's so trauma-informed and resilience based.

Alyssa Scolari:

Yeah, that's very empowering. Very empowering.

Melissa Parks:

It is very much though. So with the bilateral stimulation is what you're talking about. So the tapping or the eye movements, that's only, you know, that's not an all eight phases of EMDR because this is an eight phase model. So we're doing. Yes. Yes. And some clients come in, when are we going to do EMDR? And I'll say, well, we've been doing it ever since you came in because you know, part of EMDR also involves case conceptualization, taking a history, doing a treatment plan, which we're not doing tapping or bilateral stimulation through that.

But that is typically what people think EMDR is moving the eyes and the tapping. And so I'm happy to talk about that piece because it is a pretty important piece. And it's probably what sort of separates EMDR from many of these other therapies,

Alyssa Scolari:

Right, right. Because another therapies it's just primarily talk therapy unless you were doing, you know, neurofeedback or something of that sort. But...

Melissa Parks:

RIght.

Alyssa Scolari:

is more of like a, I don't know, it's like tapping into the brain. It sounds like.

Melissa Parks:

No pun intended, right?

Alyssa Scolari:

Right. I was going to say no pun intended, but pun fully intended, definitely tapping into the brain.

Melissa Parks:

Yes. So treatment of EMDR really involves some procedures where number one, we are activating these old memories. By way of sensations, images, beliefs, feelings. So we want to activate that. And part of that involves this dual attention because we don't want to activate something like that and retraumatize you. We don't want to activate that and get you back into the memory where you're fully immersed in it, and it is overwhelming and it takes you outside of your window of tolerance.

That is not what we want to happen, but we want to activate that where we have one foot in that past issue. And then we also have one foot in the present day where you're in the office with the client and or with the clinician. So one foot in the past one foot in the present. So we're activating the memory with all of those components.

And then this is where we bring in the bilateral stimulation. And this is rhythmic side to side stimulation. Left ,right, left, right. And this is, by way of eye movements. So the clinician can wave their fingers in front of the eyes of the client that the eyes will pass the midline. We can use hand tapping.

I have little buzzers where they hold the little buzzers and it kind of buzzes back and forth. You can do tones in the ears, but either way it's stimulating left, right, left, right. And this activates and integrates information from both sides of the brain. And so we have full brain integration. So we're setting up a state for the system to do what we wanted it to do.

Back during the trauma, we're setting up a state for the system to bring those dissociated pieces together, associate them again in a safe way, and sometimes in a titrated way. Meaning we only take a little bit at a time because we don't want to overwhelm the client. And as a result, the old memory ends up being stored properly.

The components of the memory are now timestamped appropriately. Cause remember I said, our symptoms are the past and the present. Well now when we set up this state and we help the brain integrate. Those parts can say: "Oh, we belong back here when I was 10, we don't belong here when I'm 30 anymore."

So those old parts are now integrated (and) oriented to the correct time. And our distress is reduced about the whole situation. And we also take what is useful in terms of our thoughts about a memory, for example, It's over or unsafe now, or I am good ,or something. And then we can take that into our future and move forward.

The results of this are just quite amazing, but ultimately we set up this state and we let the nervous system do its thing.

Alyssa Scolari:

That is absolutely fascinating.

Melissa Parks:

I know I got chills when I talk about it, even though I've done it so many times. Cause it's just so cool.

Alyssa Scolari:

Yes, your passion for it is palpable. And just, as I'm listening to you talk, I think it's such a beautiful description. I have had it explained to me so many times, and I have to be honest. I still am, like, after somebody explains it to me and I'm still like, okay, but I don't get it. The way that you're putting it is incredible because there are so many times that I will say to not only my patients who I treat, but also to myself when I'm triggered is "Okay, are these feelings about the past, or are these feelings about the present?" And what EMDR does is it sounds like it gives your brain and your nervous system, the ability to be like,"Nope, this belongs, you know, for the time that we were enduring the abuse. This is what belongs in the present. This is what we're going to take into the future."

Melissa Parks:

That's right. That's right.

Alyssa Scolari:

That is incredible.

Melissa Parks:

Yes. Yes. And this is what our brain wanted to do at that time. Right. It really did, but it couldn't. It's wired to, because that's part of what the hippocampus does. The hippocampus is the integrating function of the brain, but it couldn't. Because things were too much, too soon, too fast, too little for too long.

Alyssa Scolari:

Way too much to process.

Melissa Parks:

All those too Yes Yes yes yes And so but how beautiful is it that for our survival and for our sanity it knew something else to do, to fragment these pieces. It's beautiful Like my gosh.

Our brains are incredible.

That's the part where I love too, is like, You know, instead of looking at it from the pathological lens, it's like, no, this is amazing that our nervous system protected us in this way. Just amazing.

Alyssa Scolari:

I love that you are saying this because I have been on such a soap box lately about pathology and how much I loathe it entirely, which I understand, you know, we need the DSM for some things, which for the listeners out there, the DSM is the book with all of the mental health disorders. But I'm just right on board with you where so much of what we experience is a result of our brain, trying to protect us, which is actually so normal and not pathological.

Melissa Parks:

That's right. Agreed. 100%.

Alyssa Scolari:

I am so passionate, so passionate about that. I'll get off my soap box now. But I have to ask. So what sparked your passion to get into this field and specifically like the EMDR niche?

Melissa Parks:

Well, I feel like, so I, you know, I'm thinking like way back when I, you know, went into school, but I feel like for a lot of us clinicians out there, there's some clinicians that go into it because it's in the family or that kind of thing. Like we know somebody close to us that is a therapist or...

I went in it to become more self-aware and to search for healing, because of my own childhood experiences and my own difficulties and my own trauma. And so that's probably, if I were to go right back to the brass tacks of it, of why I even started my journey towards becoming a therapist, that's where I would say it began.

And I can't discount....I feel like there's a spiritual component there because I went into college when I was an itty-bitty, you know, teenager. And so it's hard to imagine that my teenage brain was like, Oh, let's do all of this. And, you know, cause that's just not the case. My prefrontal cortex wasn't even completely developed.

So I feel like there's a spiritual component there for me, at least that there was a pathway for this for me, but I definitely had that passion to want to learn about myself and why I was the way I was and what was happening there. And then turning that around to:I want to help others.

I want to help others see, like we just said, this non-pathological lens that there is nothing wrong with you. In fact, you have done the best that you can. And so that's where a lot of my passion comes. And then probably in terms of, EMDR where I was first introduced to that. I was almost fresh out of grad school and my supervisor did EMDR.

Now, of course, this was like almost 20 years ago and EMDR has changed a little bit over the years. And so back then it was kind of like this like woo-woo sorta thing, but she just amazed me and the way that she saw these results with her clients. And so my interest was sparked way back then and I started learning little bits and pieces along the way.

And of course, once I had my own training and my certification and all that stuff, like, that was it. But I also have a love for attachment. So I'd also do couples therapy too. And that is why I also make attachment a huge part of my EMDR treatment as well. So I do a lot of attachment focused EMDR too.

Alyssa Scolari:

You can incorporate EMDR in couples work as well?

Melissa Parks:

Okay. I've not treated couples with both of them in the room with EMDR. I think there's probably, maybe some people that do that. But there have been times where I'm working with a couple and we realized that there are some things that are at play here that trace back to trauma that are really impeding our progress in order to create a secure bond.

And so in that case, we may branch off and do a little bit of EMDR for each or one of the components of the couple and then return.

Alyssa Scolari:

Okay, that makes a lot of sense.

Melissa Parks:

But when I say attachment focused EMDR, I'm talking a lot about people that have PTSD, so childhood trauma or developmental trauma, and we really need to bring in that attachment perspective to the EMDR work.

Alyssa Scolari:

Yes, because it's almost, you know, if you do have complex PTSD, it is almost impossible. Nothing's impossible, but it is extremely, extremely difficult to be able to have a functional relationship when you have not worked through...

Melissa Parks:

yeah. Yeah,

Alyssa Scolari:

...the attachment. You know, even having been in my own treatment for... how many years now?

I don't know. Well, multiple years at this point, I still have those triggers that come up about abandonment. And so I can only imagine.

Melissa Parks:

Rection. Yeah absolutely. Yes.

Alyssa Scolari:

Rejection in what I think other people might feel are just like the silliest ways. That's like, well, what do you mean you're going to go play video games with your friends?

Melissa Parks:

And there it is the past and the present. Right? There it is.

Alyssa Scolari:

So EMDR I have heard, and maybe you can speak a little bit on this. Somebody had mentioned it in one of my previous podcasts, and then I've had a couple of colleagues talk about this, that it can be a very, very exhausting process.

So can you speak a little bit on that? Like how is it draining? Why so draining? What are your thoughts on that?

Melissa Parks:

Yeah, I have plenty of clients that will say to me, I have to clear my schedule after our session and or creating our next appointment time, I want to make sure that I'm doing it where I have nothing for the rest of the day. I mean, this can be a common experience. And then often, you know, if I have somebody that comes in that has something to do in that afternoon, we might really talk about whether or not we want to go into that...

...Phase Four, which is the desensitization using the bilateral stimulation because yeah, it can be draining. I mean, I think just the thought of going back into an experience and going back into an experience that our body and our system tries so hard not to, I mean, that alone kind of like speaks to probably the reasons why you might feel so drained afterward.

Alyssa Scolari:

Yes cause you are having to actively revisit your trauma. So I suppose that speaks to the importance that like the decision to pursue EMDR is not a decision that one should make sort of like Willy nilly. Like I have 95 other thousand things going on in my life right now. But I'm going to jump into EMDR.

Like not a good idea.

Melissa Parks:

Yes. Yes. And I would also say that sometimes can be par for the course, but also knowing that if we've spent a lot of time in Phase Two, which is the preparation phase, this is where we're setting ourselves up for how do we deal with the aftermath of this so that we're not pushed out of our window of tolerance after our session.

We know. Okay,, I know some things that I can do to help regulate my nervous system. If I start to feel myself kind of getting amped up again or things I can do to help contain it, if I feel triggered and, or sort of distract myself in a healthy way, that's not dissociative or we're working with the parts that might come up and we have identified things that we can do in the event that afterward we do feel really drained or we do fear feel really triggered.

And so that can make a huge difference.

Alyssa Scolari:

Yes, setting up a before plan and after plan, making sure that the safety and all of the tools are put in place.

Melissa Parks:

That's right. That's right. Cause you know, we really have to, we really have to recognize the importance of, and the nature of this work. We are treating very vulnerable parts within the client and we want to really focus on the importance of that and the sensitivity of that. We do not want to re-traumatize or we don't want to you know, so it's really important for the clinician to, you know, take a really good history to really assess the client for all of these things that could potentially be problematic and to empower the client to set up skills if needed, like all of this stuff should be done on the forefront.

So it's not all up to the client to say, "Oh, well, I shouldn't choose this" because there are things that we can do together to make sure that in the event it is draining or it is triggering. You can still feel like you have agency over yourself and over the situation.

Alyssa Scolari:

I think that what you're saying is so important because it also speaks to I think the significance of finding a therapist who is well equipped to be able to see you through this process. You know, this is not something that you want to walk in. Unfortunately, I do have two clients now who I've ended up seeing after walking into a therapist's office who is certified in EMDR and during the first session, they went into the bilateral stimulation,

Melissa Parks:

That's Yeah. Yep. You got it.

Alyssa Scolari:

They did that the first session, the first time meeting this person, and as a result, were really, really unraveled is the word I'm lookin for.

Melissa Parks:

Oh, sure. For sure. It's concerning to say the least. I'm so sorry that that happened for your client because essentially what that also does too, is the client is not sort of, I don't want to say shutdown, but if the session isn't closed down properly and or if they are pushed outside of their window of tolerance, It's not repaired.

It's not corrected. What does that do? That confirms that old experience that you are not safe. And as a result, like I said, kind of an experience of retraumatization and that is really unfortunate. That's really unfortunate.

Alyssa Scolari:

Yeah, I think that is very unfortunate and that is not the norm. You know, that is what I'm hearing you say.

Melissa Parks:

I would hope so. I would hope so.

Alyssa Scolari:

Right. We hope and pray that that's not the norm. It is important, what I hear you say, to be able to establish that rapport with the client, to be able to do a full assessment, to be able to create a sense of safety so that the vulnerability can be there so that the healing process and the integration can begin.

Melissa Parks:

So there's things that the client can do, certainly. And when I'm hearing you kind of talk about...the client can ask the questions upfront. When searching for a therapist, the client can find someone that they feel comfortable with. Do like a consultation maybe, and ask the questions. What kind of clients do you treat?

What is your specialty? I'm not going to go if I have attachment trauma and I'm an adult and I'm struggling with my current relationships. I might not go to somebody who does EMDR, specially only with maybe children. For example, I would want to know that they've worked with adults with PTSD. So, you know, finding out what are you specialize in.

What are your advanced trainings? How long have you been doing this? Are you trained or are you certified? Asking those questions, but ultimately, you know, a lot of this lies on the clinician. And their expertise and their ability to, like I said, get a good assessment. Conceptualize the client's case, attunement t is huge because...

Alyssa Scolari:

What do you mean by that?

Melissa Parks:

I might come in as a client, gung-ho, saying, "I want to do this EMDR stuff."

"I love it so much. I'm ready." And yet the next session, another part of them comes out that is terrified. And sort of step in the presence of the room and is terrified. And yet, instead of asserting, "Hey, I'm scared about this," sort of just uses people-pleasing behaviors with the therapist and the therapist is not attuned to these little shifts of maybe a client's presentation or body movements or tone of voice or anything like that, and just runs with it.

Again, we're at the risk of retraumatization or creating an unsafe experience. The clinician's level of attunement is so key and being able to, like I said, taking that full history, Oh, you know what? This client has used fawning, for example, which is like extreme people-pleasing in their relationships in the past.

I want to note that for myself, I want to make sure that I'm watching for this in our sessions in the future. Because even if I ask a question, "Would you like to talk about this? "They're going to say "Yeah" all the time, because they fawn and so attunement is so huge, huge, huge, and that's on the clinician and their ability to do that.

That's not the client's responsibility because a client who fawns is never going to say,"I'm feeling like I want to people-please, you right now." They're never going to say that.

Alyssa Scolari:

No, they're just going to do it. That's part of their trauma response, especially when they're activated.

Melissa Parks:

That's right?

Alyssa Scolari:

So this is a lot in a very heavy process for both the client and the clinician.

Melissa Parks:

Yes. It's a dance.

Alyssa Scolari:

Do you ever find that it's exhausting for you as the clinician?

Melissa Parks:

It could potentially be, but I have good supervision. I think the best clinicians, even the ones that are, you know, have all the certifications in the world get supervision. And so I get supervision and so I have a place to bring my stuff and I have pretty good self care. I also, you know, do things behind the scenes, like structure my day appropriately.

I do not have a huge caseload because of not only the nature of the clients that I see, the majority I'm doing EMDR or couples work, couples work is also very intense because you would have two nervous systems in the room with you.

Alyssa Scolari:

Yes.

Melissa Parks:

You're trying to navigate that. So I do not see a ton of people.

All of that really, I have learned, sets me up to not feel that burnout or that exhaustion.

Alyssa Scolari:

You've learned how to take really good care of yourself.

Melissa Parks:

Yeah. But there's days, you know, cause I'm a human

Alyssa Scolari:

Of course, therapists are human too.

Melissa Parks:

Right.

Alyssa Scolari:

Absolutely. But I love the comment that you said about having supervision, because my supervisor says this all the time, which is every good clinician has a great mentor, therapist, et cetera.

Melissa Parks:

Good. Yes. You need to go to therapy too. I'm a believer in that.

Alyssa Scolari:

Yes. I love my therapist.

Yup. Yep. Now there's also been some myths, I think about EMDR that it's sort of this like, cure all. So could you speak on that? Like, and I guess maybe this is different for every person, but what is the length of the process and then like, how do you know that you've gotten to a point where like EMDR is no longer needed or is it a lifelong process?

Melissa Parks:

I wouldn't say lifelong, but I think it's not a magic thing. It's not magic or a cure-all fix-all kind of thing. No, no, no, no, no, definitely not. But I do think that it can be helpful. Like I said almost all of my individuals that I see I'm doing EMDR with because we have to remember EMDR is not just about the Phase Four desensitization piece.

Sometimes with some clients I'm just using resource tapping, which is basically strengthening positive things that they bring into session. To strengthen a positive neural network in their brain. So if someone comes in and says, "Oh, I was a good mom this week, I had such good interactions with my kids."

I'll say "You want to tap that in? That sounds like it's really important. Like we really want to strengthen that."

Alyssa Scolari:

I saw you make a Tik-Tok about that.

Melissa Parks:

That's right. That's part of EMDR too. That's resource tapping and that's a component of EMDR too. And so if we're not doing all eight phases, it's still EMDR. And so I look at it from that perspective.

In terms of really targeting a trauma or a series of traumas, if it's complex PTSD, it could take a long time. The research says that EMDR is more of a shorter model than say some other like traditional talk therapies, but I'd hate to put a timeline on it. I mean, I've, I've seen people that have single incident traumas and we've done maybe eight sessions, ten sessions, twelve sessions, and they actually feel like this is so helpful. I'm good now. Thank you. Bye. And that's been great, but typically I'm working with people with complex trauma and we're in it for the long haul.

Alyssa Scolari:

Okay. I was just going to say, it sounds more to me like EMDR is a treatment approach, like in its entirety and not something that you decide like...

Melissa Parks:

Yes, you get it.

Alyssa Scolari:

Does that make sense?

Melissa Parks:

Yes. That is exactly how I use it. And how I don't look at it as just an intervention.

Alyssa Scolari:

Right? Like it's not a supplement therapy. It is a treatment modality.

Melissa Parks:

That is exactly how I approach it and how I incorporate it into my practice. And not everybody is like this. I mean, some clinicians are just trained in it and they just use it here or there occasionally, but that's not how I roll. And maybe it's just because I'm in love with it all, but yeah. I really use it as how a lens that I see my clients through because of all the components of it that we talked about in the beginning, based on the model that the past is in the present, the resiliency aspect of it, the bottom up approach.

That's how I see my clients through that lens. And this is why this works for me in terms of a modality. So yes, that's right. It's not just an intervention to me.

Alyssa Scolari:

Yeah, this is a treatment lens for you. Which I think is potentially why I bet you have so much success because the treatment of trauma really is recovery is a lifelong process, especially when it comes to trauma survivors. So I would imagine that if we're coining anything in some like eight week or twelve week intervention, it's not going to be as effective.

Melissa Parks:

Right. Right. Agreed.

Alyssa Scolari:

I love it. I learned so much about EMDR. This actually makes me want to, I don't know. This makes me definitely want to explore more.

Melissa Parks:

Nice.

Alyssa Scolari:

And so I have to ask because your Tik-Toks are amazing. How did you...

Melissa Parks:

I get a little...I'm laughing cause I can get my sense of humor can come out there. I can have a little too much fun on there.

Alyssa Scolari:

They're so funny. I love them. I show them to my husband.

Melissa Parks:

Give me an Office audio, and I will roll with it. I will make it into something. I just love The Office. And if there's any audio on The Office, it's happening, it's going down.

Alyssa Scolari:

It's going down. I love it so much. How did you get into, like, how did you decide like, Oh, this is what I'm going to do.

Melissa Parks:

well, I've been on Instagram a few years probably, and I just decided to take the leap.

Alyssa Scolari:

Making those Tik-Toks at the rate that you put them out has got to be a second full-time job for you. I feel like they're hard.

Melissa Parks:

Well, they are, I'm pretty, I'm slightly, not slightly. I'm pretty aware of like, not aware, but I can work my phone pretty good. And I'm not doing like major edits, so they don't take me too long. But I think it's just my, I think it's my imagination. I hear something like a sound or, and I'm like, Oh my gosh, this fits so perfectly with this.

Or this is how a couple would react or this is what would happen in the brain and how the brain would talk to each other like that. It just comes to me with hearing these sounds.

Alyssa Scolari:

Yeah. It's like, it seems looking at your profile and your content, very much of a creative outlet for you. And I would guess a way to also spread awareness.

Melissa Parks:

That's right. And I cannot tell you how many emails or messages I've received saying "Because of you. I decided to find a therapist" or "Because of you. I feel like I make sense. And I'm going to talk more about what's happening with my therapist" or" just because of you..." and that gives me fire and motivation to just keep going for sure.

You know, I'm going to kind of change up how we see ourselves, how we see mental health and that's important.

Alyssa Scolari:

and you are doing that and you very much send the message on your content, on all of your platforms. Cause I believe I also follow you on Instagram that it's not what's wrong with you. It's what happened to you.

Melissa Parks:

Yes.

Alyssa Scolari:

And I love that you put that vibe out there.

Melissa Parks:

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you.

Alyssa Scolari:

So healing.

Melissa Parks:

Yeah, thank you.

Alyssa Scolari:

So your Tik-Tok is...what's your Tik-Tok username?

It's melissa_parks_says, right.

Melissa Parks: [00:39:06]

No, just melissaparkssays, all one (word) and it's the same for my Instagram: melissaparkssays

Alyssa Scolari:

and then you have a website as well, right?

Melissa Parks:

Yeah, the website, it is for my therapy practice. That's melissaparkstherapy.com. And yeah, I'll be doing some things in terms of more of that coaching piece, probably more towards summertime, and I'll be opening up some opportunities for EMDR therapists that want to be certified to do some consultation under me if they want to.

So that would be important to maybe find me on social media for that. And I'm looking at some potentially courses or some kind of like membership sites so that people can work with me outside of that therapy treatment perspective. And of course, that's only for those that do not need the structure of therapy.

That's very important to make sure that we delineate that.

Alyssa Scolari:

Ooo, you have some exciting things coming up in your future.

Melissa Parks:

Yeah.

Alyssa Scolari:

I'm excited for you. Oh, that's so fun. Well, I will link all of your socials on the show notes. So to all the listeners out there, you will know exactly where it should go to find more of Melissa's amazing content. Thank you for breaking down the scary beast that is EMDR, because it has really been quite frightening to me, but I feel like I have a really good grasp on it now.

And it's not so scary.

Melissa Parks:

I'm so glad. I'm so glad. And of course I'd be open to any and all questions for clarifying anything further. I'd be happy to come on again or whatever. It's been such a joy. So thank you for having me.

Addressing your trauma in therapy can be one of the hardest, bravest things you'll ever do. But before you do so, there are important safety measures that need to be put in place in order for therapy to be effective. Trying to process trauma without having safety and security in other areas of your life can lead to re-traumatization and an overall negative treatment experience. Tune into this week's episode to learn about what you may need to make therapy as helpful as possible.

**Every donation to Patreon for the month of March will go to Doctors Without Borders to help support those injured in Ukraine. Alyssa will personally match your donation. See the podcast Patreon and learn more about Doctors Without Borders below!**

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Learn more about Doctors Without Borders

Check out the Light After Trauma website for transcripts, other episodes, Alyssa's guest appearances, and more at: www.lightaftertrauma.com

Want to get more great content and interact with the show? Check us out on Instagram: @lightaftertrauma

Transcript

Alyssa Scolari [00:23]:

Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of The Light After Trauma Podcast. And if you're new here, well just welcome in general. So happy to have you, happy to be here. We've got a little bit of a shorter episode coming at you today. It's been kind of a wild week for me, so please forgive me. I have had so many appointments, just like doctor's appointments after doctor's appointments and it's all good stuff, I'm doing well, things are fine. But it has just been a lot and I've been a little overwhelmed. So I actually originally wanted to talk about something else today, but I've been getting a lot of questions from you all about really the process of starting the trauma work, meaning like working through your trauma, trying to get yourself into recovery from your trauma. And this is a really important thing to talk about.

Alyssa Scolari [01:22]:

And I had a lot of questions this week in my private practice and through the podcast of just like, how do I even begin to start this? And I think that's a really important question. And I don't think that it's really talked about a whole lot. I think some people think, well, you just sign up for therapy and you go and you start talking about it, but doing that can actually be dangerous. There are certain safety measures that have to be put in place for the trauma therapy to work, the trauma recovery to be effective. So that is what we were talking about today.

Alyssa Scolari [02:03]:

So just a few housekeeping things before we get into it. Number one, I just want to remind everybody that for the month of March, we are donating to Doctors Without Borders to help the people in Ukraine right now. So you can read more about Doctors Without Borders in the show notes. And what we're doing for this month is if you become a Patreon member, which you can sign up to be a Patreon member, again go right to the show notes, whatever you decide to donate for the month of March is going to go directly to doctors without borders and to take it even one step further, I am going to personally match your donation.

Alyssa Scolari [02:46]:

So I really think this is a great way to raise some money, to be able to send over and help Ukraine, because I don't know about you all, but I have been feeling so helpless and I am just kind of looking for ways to help. So again, head right to the show notes. We are donating the month of March, whoever signs up on our Patreon, whatever you decide to donate for March is going to go to doctors without borders. And then I am also going to personally match your donation. So thank you ahead of time for that up.

Alyssa Scolari [03:19]:

And then lastly, I wanted to thank everybody. We've got another review on the podcast. Well, a few other reviews across different platforms. I know there was one that was up on Spotify and there was another one on Apple Podcasts and I'm really excited. These reviews help so much. They help move the podcast up in the rankings. And when your podcast moves up in the rankings, it then becomes more available to people. People are more likely to see it pop up on recommendations for them if they happen to be Googling something or searching for something. And the goal is really to give people the chance to have free access to some type of mental health education and support. So your reviews go such a long way in supporting this podcast even more than the Patreon. Although the Patreon is so helpful too, because this podcast does cost quite a bit of money. There's a lot of funds that go into it.

Alyssa Scolari [04:20]:

So the Patreon is so helpful as well. And I just appreciate all of the support from all of you. So if you are able to sign up to become a patron, that's fantastic. And if not, no worries. If you're able to leave a review, that is also amazing. And also remember that if you haven't given us a follow on Instagram yet, please go follow us. The Instagram handle is Light After Trauma. And I also should mention that if you do decide to become a Patreon member, you can also request specific episode topics. So if there's something that I haven't talked about yet, that you would really like me to discuss, if you're a Patreon member, you absolutely can message me through Patreon and you can request specific topics. So I think that covers it for the housekeeping things.

Alyssa Scolari [05:13]:

So without further ado, let's get into it. So as I was saying before, in order to do the trauma work, if you are considering starting therapy, or maybe you have tried to do the trauma work before, and it just hasn't worked out, it has been too painful or too overwhelming for you, or maybe that's not the case. Maybe you're like, no, I can't even think about starting the trauma work and I wouldn't even know where to begin. I think that this is going to be really helpful for you. It was really helpful for me and it continues to be helpful for me as I understand really what I need in my life to be able to process certain events, or memories, or specific traumas. So you need a certain level of safety. And when I say safety, I'm talking about really two main types of things.

Alyssa Scolari [06:13]:

You need emotional safety, but you also need physical safety. And I'm going to talk a little bit more about each of those. So let's start with physical safety. I learned, and I'm sure anybody who has ever studied any kind of psychology, has learned about something called Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. And one thing at the top of this pyramid, basically what Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs is, and don't quote me on this directly because it's been a little bit of time since undergrad. But basically it is this hierarchy of needs, it's this pyramid of things that you need in your life in order to have a sense of safety and in order to reach a sense of happiness and contentment in your life.

Alyssa Scolari [07:03]:

And one of the first things is physical safety and a sense of security. And I'm talking like you're very, very basic stuff. So like all the way at the bottom of Maslow's pyramid is like, you're psychological needs. We're talking food, we are talking water, we are talking shelter, things like that. We need those things in order to do anything in life.

Alyssa Scolari [07:33]:

If you are struggling with what you are going to eat, if you don't have enough money to pay for food, if you can't pay your bills, if you have credit card debt, if you are about to be kicked out, if you're about to be evicted from your home, you can't do the trauma work safely when your physical needs aren't being met. And so many people, millions of people around this world can't do the trauma work because that is the type of environment that they are living in. They are living paycheck to paycheck, if that, they are barely able to make ends meet, every single minute is a struggle or a stressor of thinking, what am I going to do next? What are we going to eat tonight? How am I going to feed, I don't know myself, my kids? And it's how am I going to pay for the doctors? Things like that.

Alyssa Scolari [08:36]:

I can't go to the doctors because I don't have insurance because I can't afford insurance. I can't go get my cavity taken care of. So I am in constant pain all of the time, because I can't afford a dentist. It's really bad in the United States when it comes to healthcare. Really bad. I know like in Germany, Germany and other countries, it's a lot easier to have affordable healthcare. In the United States, it is nearly impossible unless you have a job where you are given good insurance. And even then, it can be expensive depending on your deductibles and things like that. But when people are struggling just to live, just to breathe and feed themselves, when people don't have access to clean water, they can't do the trauma work. When people can't get to a doctor, but are experiencing excruciating pain, they can't do the trauma work. Not because there's anything wrong with them. God, no, that's not it at all, but because it's not safe.

Alyssa Scolari [09:57]:

And why is it not safe? Well, because trauma work takes so much of you and it requires you to live in your body, to work towards living in your body when the trauma that we've experienced causes us to want to disassociate and leave our bodies. It's really, really hard to just live in a body and to revisit all of our past memories and to try to integrate them with who we are now, when we don't really have a ton of protective factors. It's not like we can say, well, I was really traumatized back then, but right now, I'm safe because you're not. If you're somebody who's struggling and living paycheck to paycheck, that's not a sense of safety and security.

Alyssa Scolari [10:55]:

So you're already in a state where you are being traumatized by your situation in the present, or what's happening to you is re-traumatizing you from things you dealt with in the past. So if you're already in a state of not feeling safe to then go back and rehash all those memories and to ask you to be present and not dissociate would be a complete override of your system. It would just be so ... It wouldn't be right. It wouldn't be fair for anybody to ask you to do that, but it also just wouldn't be safe for people to do that.

Alyssa Scolari [11:36]:

I also see this a lot in people who repress their trauma and who don't ... They really don't remember their trauma. They don't remember what happened to them. I am one of those people for those of you who are new and don't really know my story. I am somebody who has repressed my trauma. I did not know anything for years. If you had asked me 10 years ago, if I thought that I had trauma, I would've been like, absolutely not. I don't really even know what that is. Are you out of your mind? And then what happened is I got married and this event happened and it was a horrible event. And I don't think I've talked about it on the podcast. And I will talk about it one day soon. I've just honestly still been processing the fallout from it myself. So I will talk about it soon, but this horrible event happened that started to trigger all of these memories in me.

Alyssa Scolari [12:36]:

And it wasn't just that event that caused me to remember. It wasn't just that horrible event. But I also had established a sense of safety. Before I had gotten married, I was so, so stressed out. I was in grad school. I was making such little money. I was in a job that was extremely dangerous. I was not well taken care of by my supervisors at all. They did not care. They were asking me to go into people's homes, to deal people who were very dangerous. They were asking me to go in completely alone. I was working all the time and I also was really, really sick physically. I was very sick physically. I had absolutely no space to do the trauma work.

Alyssa Scolari [13:32]:

And really my whole life, I was so sick with my eating disorder. Plus I also had been around people who were extremely unsafe for me. So I was not going to be able to remember what happened to me. I wasn't going to be able to process my trauma. If you are a child and you are living with a household member who is abusive, it's going to be really hard for you to acknowledge that that person is abusive because you still have to live with them. So it's not like you can go to a therapist and say, "Hey, I think I'm being abused." I mean, listen, you can. There people who do, I certainly have had plenty of children in my office who have said, "I think I'm being abused."

Alyssa Scolari [14:23]:

But sometimes our brains repress, our brains push things down and don't let us even know or acknowledge that we are being abused because it wouldn't be safe for us. In order to really do the trauma work, it's really important for you to be in an environment in which you are not having to stress about your physical needs, meaning you're not having to worry about somebody abusing you, you're not having to worry about how you're going to get your next meal, or you're not worried about the quality of your water, things like that. Not worried about being kicked out of your home. Those are things that are essential.

Alyssa Scolari [15:07]:

So here's the other thing that's needed, and that's emotional safety. And that can be kind of tricky because this isn't to say that all of your emotional problems need to go away before you do the trauma work. That would be absolutely ridiculous. But what this really means is that it's very hard to do deep trauma work if you are battling with an addiction that is hindering your ability to function in life. It's very hard to do the trauma work if you are struggling with an eating disorder. If you are malnourished, or if you are binge eating, or purging to the point where it's consuming your life, you're not going to have space to do the trauma work. If you are self-harming, it's going to be really hard to do the trauma work because ... In a sense of safety, but it's more of an emotional sense of safety.

Alyssa Scolari [16:09]:

It will be really hard to keep yourself safe if you are harming yourself or you are sick with an eating disorder. We can't expect that you're then going to walk into a therapist's office while you're sick with, let's say, an eating disorder and then start talking about your deepest traumatic memories. Or start processing all the emotions that have come up through your childhood trauma. It just wouldn't be safe because so many of our addictions and our self-harm strategies, including eating disorders are designed to sort of keep that trauma suppressed. So what tends to happen if we are trying to work through trauma before getting any kind of grip on self-harm, suicidality, eating disorders, addiction is that we talk about our trauma and then that causes our self-harm or our eating disorders to increase. And we tend to turn to these things even more because don't have the proper tools that we need to learn what to do with the feelings that come up when we're doing the trauma work.

Alyssa Scolari [17:21]:

So again, it's not realistic to expect that if you're struggling with an eating disorder, or if you struggle with self-harm, it's not realistic to expect that you are never going to have urges to self-harm. No, there were plenty of times that I had urges to self-harm and times where I even did self-harm throughout my trauma recovery. But I do know that there was a time in my therapy process where I was pushed very inappropriately so to dive into memories that I should not have been diving into because A, you really don't need to rehash the details of your trauma in order to heal. And that's a topic for another episode. But B, I was not safe enough. I was self-harming a lot. And I was essentially persuaded or coerced into going through the intimate details of many of my traumatic memories during this time. And it landed me in the hospital ultimately.

Alyssa Scolari [18:44]:

It was horrible and I became worse and worse and worse. And I realize now how damaging that was for me, because I didn't have the tools to be able to take good care of myself. What I needed was help on the self-harm first. And once I got help with that, and once I stopped doing that, I was able to then go back and work through a lot of my old trauma in a much safer setting. Again, that is not to say that the urges to self-harm didn't come up. Same thing with my eating disorder. I really needed to take care of my eating disorder, which I did. I, first was in treatment for an eating disorder before I knew anything about trauma. So I was taking care of that and I continued to take care of that even once I knew I had trauma.

Alyssa Scolari [19:43]:

That way, while I was working through the trauma, I didn't dive right back into my eating disorder to the point where I got so sick that it nearly killed me. Of course there were times where I would have a really rough day at therapy and I would binge, and it was a learning experience. But it wasn't something that was happening all the time. And my symptoms continued to improve instead of worsen. Let's say that you get your eating disorder under control or the self-harm under control, and you start the trauma therapy process. And then all of a sudden, you find yourself right back into your eating disorder in the same severity as before, or maybe even worse. That might be a sign that you might not be ready to address this part of your recovery, or maybe this specific memory, or maybe you just need a little bit more work in terms of your eating disorder.

Alyssa Scolari [20:46]:

I can't say for sure, obviously. I'm not you. But I am just trying to give examples of the different ways in which safety, both physical and emotional, can be really important in this role. I make sure to ask all of my clients about their safety habits. I make sure before we do any kind of trauma processing that I know that they have a sense of safety, both physical and emotional. I would never, in a million years ask somebody who has come to me, who has been self-harming to relive traumatic memories. It would be a horrible thing to do, and it was done to me, and it is a horrible, horrible feeling.

Alyssa Scolari [21:38]:

So I hope that this is helpful because a lot of you really have asked me a lot about this. And I also just want to say that when it comes to treatment, one size doesn't fit all. Some people can do both. Some people certainly can. I think it's rarer, but I'm a never say never kind of woman. So I do think that perhaps it can be done, but I also think that I have talked with so many people who have tried to do the trauma work, but then have said things like it was just too bad and I almost lost my life. And I tried to commit suicide or complete suicide, I should say. Just as a little FYI and the reason I'm not taking this out in editing is because I think that language is really important when we talk about suicide. And when we use the word commit, it makes it sound like people did something horrible, like they committed a crime. But when we say complete suicide, I think it takes a lot of the stigma away from it. So that's why I corrected myself there.

Alyssa Scolari [22:47]:

So anyway, I've had people say, "I tried to complete suicide when I started to go through the trauma work." And I think one of the first questions that I always ask people when they tell me that is like, well, tell me about your environment. Tell me about your sense of safety. Are you doing okay? Are you well fed? Are you well nourished? Are you living in a safe home? Do you have good shelter? Do you have people in your life who you can talk to? Who can support you? Who are safe people that you can trust? Do you have some sort of financial stability? Are you struggling with an eating disorder, with self-harm, with addiction? Because these are all things that need to be worked on in order for the safety to be there in trauma work.

Alyssa Scolari [23:40]:

And sometimes this is why people go up to inpatient. People feel like they can't keep themselves safe and they go up to inpatient and they help get themselves stabilized. And then they come back out to outpatient and then they do the trauma work. Again, not a one size fits all, but I do think it's really important to know that there are huge steps to try to take before you do the trauma work, and it can potentially be unsafe to just dive right in. With that being said, I want you all to dive in. This is what we do here. These are the things we talk about. So take those steps, do what you have to do. Not to say that everything is in your control. Financial stability is really hard to come by in this country right now. And the prices just keep rising and rising and rising. And my heart is shattered for all of us.

Alyssa Scolari [24:41]:

So it is not the easiest thing to do and it is not always in our control. And I do want to acknowledge that. But these ultimately are the important things to be able to start doing some sort of trauma work. And at the end of the day, if you're hearing this and you're feeling like something resonates with you and you're like, oh, maybe I'm not quite ready. If you have a therapist, please talk to your therapist about it because your therapist is going to know way better than I do. I'm not your therapist. I'm a therapist. I've got a good bit of knowledge on this subject, but ultimately nobody knows you better than you. And if you have a great therapist and you've been with your therapist for a while, there's a good chance that you're a therapist is going to know too.

Alyssa Scolari [25:29]:

So don't be afraid to start asking questions about this kind of stuff and make sure that you're keeping it in the back of your mind, because this work is really hard. It's some of the hardest work that you'll ever do. It's, of course, the most rewarding work that you'll ever do, but safety is so important. So with that being said, I hope that this has helped you today. I like this. I think it's a really interesting topic to talk about. And I know a lot of you have been asking about it. So I hope that this is helpful and I wish everybody a fantastic week. I am over here on the East Coast in the United States. And we got slammed with snow today, which was a little ridiculous in my opinion. But hey, it is what it is. So I hope that you all are enjoying warmer weather than what I'm having. And I am holding you all in the light. Talk to you next week.

Alyssa Scolari [26:28]:

Thanks for listening everyone. For more information, please head over to lightaftertrauma.com or you can also follow us on social media. On Instagram, we are at lightaftertrauma and on Twitter, it is at lightafterpod. Lastly, please head over to patreon.com/lightaftertrauma to support our show. We are asking for $5 a month, which is the equivalent to a cup of coffee at Starbucks. So please head on over. Again, that's patreon.com/lightaftertrauma. Thank you and we appreciate your support. [singing]

Childhood trauma comes in a variety of different forms – no two trauma survivors have identical histories. However, what all trauma survivors have in common are experiences with the five core wounds that have led to depression, anxiety, PTSD, and other mental health disorders. In this episode Alyssa talks about the last two (2) core wounds and how they manifest in adulthood (to hear about the first three (3) core wounds, please listen to episode 84). Alyssa also discusses how we can begin to heal from our core wounds.

**Every donation to Patreon for the month of March will go to Doctors Without Borders to help support those injured in Ukraine. Alyssa will personally match your donation. See the podcast Patreon and learn more about Doctors Without Borders below!**

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Learn more about Doctors Without Borders

Check out the Light After Trauma website for transcripts, other episodes, Alyssa's guest appearances, and more at: www.lightaftertrauma.com

Want to get more great content and interact with the show? Check us out on Instagram: @lightaftertrauma

Transcript

Alyssa Scolari [00:23]:

Hi, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Light After Trauma podcast. I'm your host, Alyssa Scolari. And welcome back to part two of the two part series that we are doing on the five core wounds. This episode was a huge hit. I loved it, and you all loved it too. We actually broke our record on the podcast, which is really exciting. So thank you so much. I'm really happy to be doing part two. I hope everybody's having a good week. I'm having an okay week. I think personally, I'm doing well, but I don't know. I feel very, very heavy this week emotionally. I think everything that's going on in Ukraine is just really weighing on my soul. And I've been feeling pretty isolated as a therapist. There's been so much going on and I people that are being so affected by it, my clients included, and it just feels it's just very upsetting.

Alyssa Scolari [01:31]:

I don't know what's in the air, but there's been lots of crises and just really difficult moments and just bouts of injustice after are injustice, and it's hard to wrap my brain around. So I'm feeling rather heavy this week, and I'm just trying to work through those feelings. And I think the other issue that's been coming up for me a lot is feeling helpless. I feel very effective as a therapist for the most part. I have my moments, of course, but I'm feeling pretty helpless when it comes to everything that's happening in Ukraine. And I don't know what to do. So I've been really trying to rack my brain on what I can do to help, if anything, because it's very, very hard for me to sit here while other people are being so traumatized and just not do anything about it. So I actually think, what I'm going to do for the month of March is, if you become a patron on the Light After Trauma Patreon, whatever donation you make for the month of March is going to go directly to the efforts to help Ukraine.

Alyssa Scolari [02:52]:

And specifically, I am going to donate, or we are going to donate, to Doctors Without Borders. And Doctors Without Borders is this organization that works in conflict zones and they are partnering with Ukraine. They're helping people travel to healthcare facilities. They are making sure that people have access to healthcare and medicine. So whatever you donate, the LinkedIn of the Patreon is in the show notes, so just go right into the show notes. And I'm also going to include the link for the Doctors Without Borders so you can check it out a little bit more if you want. But, go onto the Patreon, and whatever you are able to donate would be great. And whatever you donate, I personally am going to match. So if you donate $5, I'm going to donate $5. If you donate 50 cents, I'm going to donate 50 cents. So I feel like this is a really great way for us to just join in together as a family and help when we are otherwise feeling pretty helpless.

Alyssa Scolari [03:55]:

Now with that being said, if you are not able to give, that is totally fine. But if you are, hey, go right ahead. I feel like that would be a great way to contribute, a great way for us to help. And I will, of course, after the month of March announce how much we have donated to Doctors Without Borders. So again, head over to the link in the show notes, and you will find everything that you need there. And with that being said, let's launch into part two today, which I'm pretty excited for. So if you haven't listened to last week's episode, you might want to go back and do that, because in that episode, we talk about the first three of the five core wounds, but we also talk about what the five core wounds are.

Alyssa Scolari [04:46]:

As a little recap, basically what the five core wounds are, childhood injuries, injuries to our soul, injuries to our brain. Every trauma survivor has a uniquely different story. No two trauma survivors have the same story, but all of our stories fall within the realm of these five core wounds. And last week, we talked about the first three being abandonment and rejection and betrayal. And we talked about what they are, how they can come about in childhood, and then what they manifest into in adulthood. This week, we are talking about the final two, which are humiliation and injustice. Now, we will start with humiliation. Now, humiliation, this can be felt as early as one to three years of age. And humiliation is [inaudible 00:05:50] exactly as it sounds, right? It is something that causes us to feel like we are bad. It's that feeling of wanting to crawl under a rock and die. It's belittling. And it comes out in a variety of different ways.

Alyssa Scolari [06:04]:

There are different types of humiliation. There's, I guess you could say indirect and direct humiliation. Maybe the phrase is... And I'm making this up. This isn't coming from anywhere, but I feel like it might be more accurate to say there's aggressive forms of humiliation, and then more passive aggressive forms of humiliation. So let me give you some examples, right? So children who are humiliated are basically being told that they are bad if they do a certain thing, look a certain way, right? So if you get a C on your test at school and your parent says, "I didn't raise no dumbass," or "What are you? A moron. You got to C on a test in the third grade?" That is humiliation. You are calling your child a horrible thing, and then your child is then internalizing that and feeling as though there is something wrong with them. "I am stupid. I am a dumbass. I am a moron." Now, school is just one of the many ways that humiliation can take shape, right?

Alyssa Scolari [07:30]:

A lot of humiliation also comes with potty training. If you wet the bed, if you miss the toilet, if you don't do something right when it comes to your potty training, sometimes parents or caregivers or adults may scream, may scream at you, may call you names, and this can be very humiliating. It's not so much the screaming that does it, although of course the screaming can be very traumatizing too, but that kind of borders more on rejection, I would say, but it's typically what that parent is saying and their body language. They are so angry at you. They feel some kind of way about you, almost like they feel you are a failure and that you will never get this right. Lots of children tend to experience some of their first bouts of humiliation during the potty training process. And when I say lots of children, I probably should re-say that, because potty training is, some children, they never get humiliated. Most children don't, I would think, but there are quite a few children out there who have been humiliated through potty training.

Alyssa Scolari [08:56]:

So with humiliation rates, sometimes it can just be very aggressive and very direct. "You're a dumbass. You're stupid. Why are you even bothering playing basketball? You sucked the whole time." Humiliation can also look like the dad on the court. You're five years old and you're in your first basketball game or t-ball game or whatever, and your mom, dad, whoever is on the sideline screaming at you, because you're not fast enough, you're not strong enough, other people are better than you. And this happens. I'm sure so many of you can relate to this. Humiliation, for me, did not happen when it comes to playing sports, because honestly, I never stood a chance in sports, but it does happen, and it is very, very devastating.

Alyssa Scolari [09:45]:

And then there's more passive aggressive humiliation. And sometimes that comes in the form of people who think they're trying to help you or people who are teasing you. So let me give you a few examples. I'm going to give you some personal examples. People used a lot of passive aggressive humiliation with me with my weight, right? Nobody in my family ever screamed at me for being overweight or outright told me that I was fat and lazy and this, that, and all the other negative connotations that this fatphobic world has against children or adults who are overweight. But I was a pretty chunky child. I had a lot of meat on my bones. I look at pictures of me now and I'm like, "Oh my God, I was adorable. I can't believe people called me fat as a kid."

Alyssa Scolari [10:48]:

I was freaking so cute. I can't even stand it, but I digress. But basically, I have distinct memories of parties, family parties. A family member, and I'm going to try hard not to out anybody here, but a family member who is no longer... She's no longer alive. When I would go to reach for food at the table, she would take my hand and kind of pull my hand away from the food, not aggressively by any means. It was kind of in a loving manner. And she would go, "Oh, don't be a little świnia. Now, for those of you who are not Polish and don't know what świnia means, it means pig. So I was a little girl going to get some food and I would be told, "Oh, don't be a little piggy." And the way it was said was almost like it came off in an endearing term, right?

Alyssa Scolari [11:45]:

It's like, "Oh, I love you and I care about you, and I don't want you to be a little świnia," but the impact was... I was freaking humiliated, because it was said in front of everybody else who was at the table, and it was horrifying. As another example, I remember this was maybe 10 years ago. I was at a bridal shower, and I was in the throws. Was it? It was maybe a little... Eh, it was about 10 years ago, maybe a little less. I was in the throws of my anorexia. I was a very, very low weight, a weight that I think for the people in my family thought was great. People were praising me all the time, but I was probably the sickest I've ever been in my life. And there was a bridal shower that I was at. And I was there, I was wearing this dress, everybody was complimenting me, telling me that I looked so beautiful, that they were so proud of me because I had lost all this weight. Oh, it makes my blood boil just thinking about it.

Alyssa Scolari [12:55]:

But basically what happened is, the dessert came out and I got up to go get a piece of cake. Now, I walked all the way across this room that we were in, and this room was massive, and I grabbed a plate with a piece of cake on it. And as I went to grab the cake, I heard this person from across the room, a family member, yell at me and she went, "You better drop that cake on the table because you don't want to gain back all that weight you lost." And everybody heard, and I was mortified. Again. I was a little bit older, but it opened up that already core wound that I had of humiliation. And she thought she was helping me. She didn't mean it in a mean way. She wasn't being aggressive. I mean, she was screaming, because hey, we're Italian, and that's what we do, we scream. But she thought that she was doing a great thing. She was like, "You got to keep that weight off. You're doing so great." Humiliated. I cannot even begin to tell you. I will never ever forget it. It was horrifying.

Alyssa Scolari [14:12]:

But also as a kid, I got made fun of not just for my weight, and made fun of/humiliated not just for my weight, but for the way I looked in other ways. Even something that might be as seemingly innocent as... I looked very different from the rest of my family. I'm very fair skinned, whereas a lot of the family members that I grew up with are really, really dark skin, dark hair. I'm really, really fair. So I used to be told all the time that the milk man dropped me off. And I was little. And my older cousins and stuff, they would say this to me, and I would sob and be so embarrassed and humiliated because they would then go on to be like, "Oh yeah, you don't really belong with this family. You weren't wanted, so just the milkman dropped you off." And I was little. I believed that, and it was horrible for me.

Alyssa Scolari [15:10]:

And then also, because I was so fair, again, I was with a bunch of family members who had very, very dark complexions, and then there's me over here. And they would say, even just at the dinner table, somebody would look over at me and be like, "Hey, where are your eyebrows? I can't even see your eyebrows. Do you even have them? Do you think they'll even grow in? Do you think you'll get them?" It was kind of in just a light teasing sort of way, but why? Why? Because to this day, I am extremely self conscious about my eyebrows. And when I look in the mirror, I wonder if anybody else can even see my eyebrows. It has become such a part of my body dysmorphia.

Alyssa Scolari [16:01]:

Now, of course, if my family, the people who said these things to me were to listen to this, they'd be like, "Oh my God, you're so sensitive. You're making such a big deal out of it." And that would be gaslighting, right? Because that's the thing, people who use humiliation as a form of relating or communication, especially adults to children, they're always like, "Oh, it was just a joke. What a sensitive kid. She can't take a joke. He can't take a joke. They can't take a joke." But that's not at all the case, right? If you have some of these similar experiences, this is humiliation, right? This is a core wound, and it is devastating. I have so much experience with this. I could honestly go all hunt all day. I will spare you, but parents and adults foster just this horrible fear in children that they are forever going to be criticized and that they will forever have disapproval and that they aren't good enough.

Alyssa Scolari [17:10]:

And when we become adults and we have this core wound of humiliation, it can go really one of two ways. Some people who have a core wound of humiliation end up being narcissists. They end up having a lot of narcissistic traits, and they can also be people who then go on to humiliate others. On the other hand, you can have people who become extremely dependent when they get older, people who feel like they constantly need the approval of others. This is something that I struggle with. Even in my profession, it took me a long time to be able to make decisions in my job and not feel like I immediately needed to call my supervisor right away and ask if I did the right thing. I was sort of dependent on the opinions of others and the approval of others to be able to function. I don't do that anymore, but I had to work so hard on knowing that I am okay as I am and that I don't need the approval of others.

Alyssa Scolari [18:29]:

If I would go out and I didn't have at least one person tell me that I was cute or looked great, I would feel humiliated. I would come home and I would dive right back into my eating disorder and feel like, "Oh my gosh, everybody hated me. They must have thought I looked ugly, X, Y, Z." Again, I had a ton of internalized fatphobia back then. I was extremely unwell. I'm being honest about how I was. I've worked on these things, so I don't do that anymore, but that is another way in which humiliation can show up in adulthood. So that is a heavy one, so take a deep breath if you need it, as we transition into this last one.

Alyssa Scolari [19:16]:

Now this last one is the fear of injustice. And this one is probably one of the lesser talked about of the five core wounds. This one isn't quite a self explanatory as the others, and it's a little deceiving based off of the name. But basically, injustice is when during your childhood, you had excessive demands that were pushed onto you by your caregiver, parent, guardian, whoever. So for example, let's say that you're the oldest and you have two younger siblings. And you're eight years old, seven years old, and you are being forced by your caregiver, your parent to take care of your younger siblings, right? Mom, dad, whoever goes to work all day and you're left at home, at eight years old, to change diapers, feed, play with your siblings, take care of them when you're truly just a child yourself, right?

Alyssa Scolari [20:21]:

And your parents aren't necessarily really understanding, and they're just like, "You got to do this. This is part of what being the older sibling is." It's excessive amounts of responsibility, too much responsibility with very little compassion and awareness and acknowledgement from the parent, meaning your parents or caregivers are very authoritarian and ice colds. They are very much not about your feelings. They don't really care about you getting your emotional needs met. They put a lot of pressure on you, even to meet your own physical needs and the physical needs of your siblings or whoever else is in the home, or maybe you grew up in a house where your dad was an alcoholic and he was unable to function or provide for the family and your mom made you go to work early, go to work illegally, right? When early, I mean, go to work when you're young, right?

Alyssa Scolari [21:25]:

Go to work, make money, support the family. Maybe you were also mom's emotional spouse, where instead of confiding in your father about her emotions, she would then turn to you because your father isn't available. Things like that create this core wound of injustice, and it causes a lot of mistrust in the world around you. It also causes this hyper-dependency, but also at the same time, core feelings of ineffectiveness and uselessness. Honestly, because when you are having such excessive demands as a child, you begin to feel like you're never good enough, because truthfully, you are not developed enough to even try to meet the demands of your caregivers. I hope that is making sense. For example, if you're in the fourth grade and you're eight years old, how are you supposed to be expected to take care of yourself, show up at school, be fully rested, and then also come home and take care of your two younger siblings, right?

Alyssa Scolari [22:38]:

So then let's say you go to school and you're falling asleep at school all the time and your teacher sends home a note to your parent that you're falling asleep in school and your parents screams at you and tells you that you need to get it together and that you shouldn't be falling asleep in school instead of taking a moment to reflect, "Well, why is my child falling asleep in school? What do I think I could do as a parent to support my child?" The blame is pushed onto you, and you alone as the kid. It would be completely possible to expect that you would have all these demands on you at home, and then be able to function in school, but your parent doesn't see that. Your parent expects that out of you anyway. So then all your life, you are expecting the impossible from yourself. And because nobody's perfect, we can never live up to that expectation. Therefore, as much as we need independence and perfectionism, we still feel at our core that we will never be good enough and that everything we do isn't effective and that we ultimately are useless.

Alyssa Scolari [23:47]:

So, that was a lot. I hope that is making sense, but basically, as you become an adult, those feelings sort of stay the same. Adults tend to just be really, really dependent. They are extremely rigid, and they are extreme perfectionistic. They have a lot of difficulty making decisions for fear of making the wrong one because they believe they're ineffective and ultimately will make the wrong one. They have a huge mistrust of other people because they have been taking care of everything their whole lives, but they also really don't trust themselves. It's a really, really scary and difficult place to be in as an adult. And as you can imagine, it makes getting into relationships, even friendships, even if we're not talking about romantic relationships, it makes all interactions that aren't superficial very, very difficult.

Alyssa Scolari [24:51]:

So those are the five core wounds. And one of the natural next questions would be, okay, so we know about these core wounds. We've gotten justice, we've got betrayal, we've got humiliation, rejection, and abandonment. Well, what do we do about that? What do we do? Unfortunately, that's really not a question that I can answer, that's very black and white, right? Because everybody heals from their core wounds in different ways. But I will say this, I think that understanding and acknowledging is the first half of the battle. And that's part of why we're doing this episode, because I don't think a lot of people are even aware that core wounds exist. And if we don't know it, we can't heal it. If we can't feel it, we can't fix it. Oy, I sound like such a cheesy therapist now. Geez, somebody make me stop, but I'm serious, right? In all seriousness, we really need to be aware, and awareness is really the first step in healing.

Alyssa Scolari [26:04]:

And I don't know what healing might look like. For me, healing has looked like not so much therapy, I guess. And I'm in therapy, right? That's no secret. I love therapy, but there's only so much that I think that can be done with talking about these core wounds. I'm very aware of what my core wounds are and I could talk about it in therapy, but I've sort of been in a place over the last couple of years... Well, ever since I started working with the therapist I have now, I've been in a place where I'm ready to really start to try to heal those wounds. Now, I feel like those wounds will always be sore spots. I'm always going to have some sensitive or tender scar tissue around those wounds, but that doesn't mean that they're going to drive my actions for the rest of my life.

Alyssa Scolari [27:03]:

And one way, for me, that I have been able to stop these core wounds from controlling my life is by putting myself out there and forcing myself to do the opposite of what comes naturally to me. That's part of the reason why this podcast even exists, because I am so good at being a therapist that sometimes I forget how to be a client. And I'm not saying that I'm being a client by doing this podcast, but I am very vulnerable here, and vulnerability does not come easy for me. And I am putting my trauma and my pain out there into the world. And it's, whoo, it gives me chills as I even say it, because every once in a while I'll have this voice in my head be like, "Alyssa, what the fuck are you doing? Why are you sharing this?" Right? But I'm sharing this because it's not in my nature, because my core wounds tell me that I'm not allowed to speak, because I came from family members who always said, "Don't air your dirty laundry." But my laundry isn't dirty. I'm not dirty. My issues aren't dirty.

Alyssa Scolari [28:33]:

Everybody struggles, everybody. So this is me pushing myself past my limits, past what I've been taught, past what I know, and trying to myself that it is okay, it is okay to speak, and that, airing your dirty laundry is just another way to add shame to mental health issues and adds to the stigma. And again, I don't blame anybody for telling me that. I don't think the people who told me that knew any better, but I know better now, so I can do better. So, so much of what has helped my healing is to just push myself and talk about it in therapy, but then I try to live it in my life. This fear of abandonment that I have, that core wound is huge for me.

Alyssa Scolari [29:27]:

It shows up in every way, shape, or form in my life. It shows up in ways that I still have difficulty talking about, but I still put myself out there. I still do my best to make friends. I do my best to communicate if these triggers are coming up for me. And I also do my best to try to sit with those feelings and label them for what they are, because I believe, I believe, I believe, I believe that when you label something for what it is and you see something for what it truly is, it takes the power away. Right? If I'm able to say what I'm feeling right now is a fear of abandonment because my friend has not texted me back in seven days, and I think that she hates me and that she's going to leave me probably because of something stupid I said in my last text. Right? If I'm able to look at that thought pattern and I can say, "Ooh, this is my abandonment stuff, and this is definitely coming from my core wound," suddenly things feel a lot more manageable, a lot more manageable.

Alyssa Scolari [30:49]:

So those are some things that I do to help. I just keep on putting myself out there and making myself vulnerable. It's scary. It's terrifying. It's horrifying. I've got a lot of work to do still, but hey, don't we all. Don't we all. And of course, therapy. I don't want to minimize therapy. Therapy helps so much, and it has helped me so much too. I just, I think in a place right now where I'm ready to put what I've learned in therapy and what I'm talking about in therapy into action in the real world. And if you're not there yet, that's fine. One of the first things you can do is really start identifying which of these core wounds do you have, if any of them. Maybe you have all of them. What do you relate to? What stings the most for you?

Alyssa Scolari [31:41]:

And I feel like writing about that, journaling can also be really, really helpful. So I hope that this episode was another helpful one for you. I've really loved talking about these core wounds. If you are enjoying what you are hearing, please leave a rating or review for the podcast. It means so much and helps the podcast grow. And again, in order to help with the efforts in Ukraine, anybody who becomes a Patreon member for the month of March and makes a donation, I will match that donation. And all of those proceeds will go to Doctors Without Borders. They are helping with medical aid in Ukraine. So my Patreon link is in the show notes, and the Doctors Without Borders link is in the show notes. And if you are a Patreon member, or if you become a Patreon member, you also are able to request specific episode topics.

Alyssa Scolari [32:42]:

So if there is a topic that you want me to speak about that I have not spoken about yet, or one that you want me to do again, but a little differently, if you are a Paton member, you can request that. So I hope that everybody has a great week. I am sending so much love to you all. I am holding you in the light. And I will see you next week.

Alyssa Scolari [33:05]:

Thanks for listening everyone. For more information, please head over to lightaftertrauma.com, or you can also follow us on social media. On Instagram, we are @lightaftertrauma, and on Twitter, it is @lightafterpod. Lastly, please head over to patreon.com/lightaftertrauma to support our show. We are asking for $5 a month, which is the equivalent to a cup of coffee at Starbucks. So please head on over again. That's patreon.com/lightaftertrauma. Thank you, and we appreciate your support.

Childhood trauma comes in a variety of different forms – no two trauma survivors have identical histories. What we do have in common, however, are experiences with the five core wounds that have led to depression, anxiety, PTSD, and other mental health disorders. In this episode Alyssa talks about the first three (3) core wounds and how they manifest in adulthood.

Check out the Light After Trauma website for transcripts, other episodes, Alyssa's guest appearances, and more at: www.lightaftertrauma.com

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We need your help! We want to continue to make great content that can help countless trauma warriors on their journey to recovery. So, please help us in supporting the podcast by becoming a recurring patron of the show via Patreon:

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Transcript

Alyssa Scolari [00:23]:

Hi, beautiful people, welcome back to another episode of the Light After Trauma Podcast. As you know, I'm your host, Alyssa Scolari and we are talking about the five core wounds today. Now, before we dive in, I just want to take a minute to thank everybody for all of the feedback from my last episode, where I talked about how I've been healing post operation from my endometriosis surgery, and what that has brought up for me trauma wise, thank you for all of the love and the support, I really appreciate it. I continue to feel better every day. This week has been a little bit of a rough one. My husband's step grandmother passed away and it's just been really, really sad. And his grandfather who we love dearly has been really devastated. So they live about like three hours away from us. So we really just dropped everything and went up there when we found out that she was getting ready to pass and the services happened and the funeral services, and it's been a lot.

Alyssa Scolari [01:39]:

His wife was, she was sick and we kind of were expecting this, but it really just doesn't make it easier. Death is just so, so hard. So there's been just a lot of grief and a lot of heavy feelings, but hey, overall, honestly, I cannot complain in terms of my recovery. I am just doing my best and I really just wanted to say thank you so much for all of the support.

Alyssa Scolari [02:10]:

So today I thought that I would talk about something that I find really fascinating, which is this idea of the five core wounds. And what does that mean? So I'm not sure if you've heard of it or not. Truthfully, I was aware of all these wounds, but I've never really had them like packaged together as like the five core wounds until very recently in the research that I was doing. And I was like, oh man, I really need to talk about this on the podcast. So this is going to be a two part episode because while it's just five wounds, there's kind of a lot to them. And I feel like it's really heavy and I, of course, want everybody to learn, but it's just a lot of information to take in. So I'm going to be splitting it up. I'm going to do the first three today and then next week I will do the last two and then we'll talk about ways to heal from those core wounds.

Alyssa Scolari [03:18]:

So I guess the first question is what is a core wound? And that is basically a, it's damage that's been done, right? Mental health damage, so to speak, reparable damage, of course, but damage, nonetheless, that has been done in childhood. These are things that happen in childhood that ultimately can lead to a diagnosis or the development of complex PTSD. And we've talked about CPTSD a lot, and how it is really stems from things that have happened in childhood. And those things happen to be the five core wounds, right?

Alyssa Scolari [04:09]:

So things can happen, all different types of events, right? Maybe you experience a wound from sexual abuse while somebody else experiences a wound from a traumatic death in the family, right? So we can experience these wounds in all different ways, but at the end of the day, it is these basic five wounds that can contribute to depression, anxiety, PTSD, and things like that that can harm your relationships with yourself and others and just get in the way of you living your best life.

Alyssa Scolari [04:46]:

So really what I see talked about the most is abandonment. Abandonment is number one. And I'm sure at this point, you hear that and you're probably like, "Ugh, I'm so over the word abandonment, it's like been there, done that, heard about it." And I get that. I think that abandonment is just really, I wouldn't say overused, I would say misused, because I think that a lot of people label things as abandonment when it might not be abandonment, it might be one of the other core wounds. But abandonment is the one that everybody knows the most.

Alyssa Scolari [05:27]:

Now with that being said, if abandonment is what feels true to you personally, then of course, that's your truth and who am I to say otherwise? But I just think in general, I've definitely seen it get misused. Like there's another kind of wound that fits better. And I just think abandonment is what we default to. So I also should point out that these core wounds, we can experience all of them. To be perfectly honest, I was going through this list and I've been doing a lot of research on these core wounds to prepare for this episode. And I was like, oh crap, I am pretty sure I've experienced all of these.

Alyssa Scolari [06:18]:

And this episode again, I really want to point out, isn't a place to blame on anybody in my life. I never... Listen, there are some people in my life who I absolutely will put blame on. Absolutely. I have certain people who I will not speak to anymore and that is my boundary and I hold them accountable for the things that they do. But I know that I share a lot of myself on here and sometimes I worry that I come across as like maybe blaming other people. I don't know. I have really been thinking about this a lot lately. And so I know in my last couple episodes, I've really been intentional about saying that this isn't a blame game, right. Because I know not just myself, I have family members out there that have been good to me and have really done right by me and if we haven't always met eye to eye in the past or seen eye to eye in the past, we've come a long way and we're good now.

Alyssa Scolari [07:22]:

So I never want to seem like I'm slandering anybody, but I also never wanted to seem like I'm faulting you as the listeners, because I know that you are parents, you are trauma survivors, you are caretaker. So I never wanted to see him like I'm blaming, right? This is educational. And I just wanted to put that out there.

Alyssa Scolari [07:48]:

So abandonment is exactly as it seems, right. It is the fear that people are going to leave. Well, it's not so much the fear that people are going to leave, it is the act of people leaving you. Now, this is a little bit more complex than it seems, right? Because it's not just, oh, my mom and dad got into the car one day and left and I was upset. They abandoned me and now I have this core wound. I wish it was as simple as that, but it is not.

Alyssa Scolari [08:21]:

Abandonment comes in many forms. It can look like a parent and keep in mind, I'm saying parent right now, but I also mean like primary caretakers as well. So it could be that a parent or a caretaker wasn't there time after time to help you when you needed emotional help. It could be that nobody was there to teach you how to do certain things, meet certain milestones in your life, right? Ride your bike, learn how to use a knife a fork, and a spoon when you're eating at the table. Helping you potty train.

Alyssa Scolari [09:02]:

Abandonment is about people showing up for you to help you get your needs met in terms of like the milestones, right? When we look at developmental psychology, kids have milestones that they meet. They are potty trained and they learn how to use utensils and they learn how to talk. And then they learn how to communicate. And then they learn how to pick up on body language. It's like kids meet these milestones but what helps kids to meet these milestones is the adults in their lives who are helping them, who are pointing them in that direction. And it is really harmful when we as kids are having to do it alone and figure these things out for ourselves, when we look at adoption trauma.

Alyssa Scolari [09:57]:

And this is not something I've touched on, but I do work with many kids and adults who are adopted. And if we're talking about adoption trauma, a lot of times kids will come from orphanages, where in the first year or two of their lives, they weren't held, they weren't coddled, they weren't nurtured. And then they grow up with this chronic and constant fear that nobody in their lives is ever going to stay. That nobody's ever going to love them enough to stay and not leave.

Alyssa Scolari [10:36]:

So it's not necessarily like a one off incident, right? Like I mentioned the whole bike riding thing. If your mom or dad or caretaker aren't around to help you learn how to ride your bike and you had to teach yourself, that necessarily isn't going to trigger a core wound, right? That's not really going to create the wound. What kind of creates this wound of abandonment is when it becomes a pattern, when it becomes habitual, right? That it's like, I was never held when I was little.

Alyssa Scolari [11:12]:

And we know that babies will die at times when they are not given the nurturing that they need. We know how important that is, but it's a pattern of behavior, right? I wasn't held when I was little, I wasn't nurtured. And then it took me... Nobody ever helped potty train me and nobody ever helped teach me how to feed myself, how to use kitchen utensils. Nobody ever helped teach me how to do homework. I never learned how to clean. I had to figure all these things out for myself. That can be where the abandonment comes up sometimes because there are other examples of abandonment too.

Alyssa Scolari [11:55]:

For example, abandonment can also look like a parent just walking out of your life. There are so many people out there who had a parent who just up and left or a parent who was never involved. That is abandonment because you know what, if you're a parent and you get up and you walk away and you walk out of your kid's life, well guess what? You're not going to be there to help them through any of those milestones that they needed you for. So that is abandonment in itself.

Alyssa Scolari [12:28]:

Abandonment also can look like somebody passing away and it can get a little more complex there because I think that a lot of people think like, but it's not abandonment, that person died. And a lot of people actually have a lot of guilt and shame about feeling abandoned when a loved one passes away. So it's not talked about as much, but honestly, underneath those surfaces, part of grief is also like working through those feelings of abandonment. If a parent has died, doesn't matter if they were there to teach you all through many of your milestones, but if you're a child and a parent dies, you could absolutely be wounded in an abandonment sense. There are other examples of abandonment. Of course, I could go on all day, but I think you get the general idea.

Alyssa Scolari [13:29]:

Now, people who have been abandoned in some way, shape or form, really develop this intense fear of loneliness. They hate being alone. But the kicker is loneliness is something that they're used to. That's what they're familiar with. So they are terrified of being left, but in the same sense, they also can push people away and can take action subconsciously to cause somebody to end up leaving, which then makes them feel abandoned again, thus reliving the cycle, repeating the cycle and reliving the abandonment in childhood. So it's very, very difficult but the core fear here is loneliness. And that fear has developed because as a child, you were used to doing everything by yourself anyway, you had to figure it out alone anyway.

Alyssa Scolari [14:32]:

So as an adult, when people come into your life, you are terrified that they are going to leave, or sometimes, you might want them to leave so that you don't have to even deal with the fear, right? What does this look like in adulthood? So this can look like the person who's been fiercely independent, who never dates, never gets into relationships. And it's just like, I don't need anybody. I don't want anybody, not always, some people are very happy on their own and that's completely fine. But sometimes that can look like a person who has a chronic fear of abandonment.

Alyssa Scolari [15:11]:

In adulthood, abandonment can also look like somebody who has a really insecure attachment. So maybe they get into a relationship or they develop a friendship, but they're always like, "Are you going to leave me? Are you going to leave me?" Or they're always like very, very anxious, right? Like, "What are you thinking? Are you mad at me? Are you going to do something? Are we breaking up? Do you still want to be my friend? Do you think I'm a good person?" They are seeking constant validation and reassurance. And even if you, as the partner on the other end, give them that validation and reassurance, it still likely isn't going to be enough.

Alyssa Scolari [15:51]:

So abandonment really affects relationships with other people. Most often romantic relationships, but also friendships too. Abandonment is a huge core wound. And I absolutely feel this one. It's funny because I actually, I am really, I've been debating whether or not I want to share the ways in which my core wound of abandonment has shown up. And I don't really think I feel quite ready to do that right now, but suffice it to say that I definitely feel this. And it has shown up in my adulthood pretty much exactly the way that I just described. I struggled so much and still do with an insecure attachment. I'm so much better now because I've had so much therapy and I've worked on it so much, but I just had this fear of people leaving me.

Alyssa Scolari [17:05]:

I mean, to the point where like, even in high school, when I would get close with teachers, I would be really sad. In high school, I had teachers who were cool, I would hang out with, like I would hang out after school. I was involved in lots of different things at school. So I just developed relationships with my teachers, appropriate professional relationships, right. Not professional, but appropriate student teacher relationships. And we'd hang out and we'd chit chat and I'd talk about my life.

Alyssa Scolari [17:33]:

And even at the end of the school year, I was sad because I felt like these teachers were leaving me. Now, of course, they weren't and that was just part of life. But it was a result of my core wound. And then, of course, even today I still struggle. I still struggle with feeling like, if my husband and I get into an argument, or we're not seeing eye to eye on things, I'm sort of like, oh my gosh, this is the end of our marriage. It's over. He's going to leave me. He's not going to want me. I really do struggle with all of those thoughts coming back to the surface despite the fact that it's very normal to argue and we get through all of our arguments and we're fine.

Alyssa Scolari [18:22]:

My brain loves to tell me otherwise, my brain loves to be like, huh, he looked at you kind of weird today. He's probably thinking about how he's going to abandon us tonight. Really that's literally what my brain does. And we laugh about it when it comes up for me, I'll say it to my husband and then we kind of like call it what it is. And we make a joke about it and we laugh about it. But the truth of the matter is that that abandonment doesn't have as much of a hold on my life anymore because I've worked through it. But honestly, when you're in it, it is the worst feeling in the world. And I know so many of you can relate.

Alyssa Scolari [19:05]:

Now, the next one is fear of rejection. And this one is also a really hard one for me. Now, fear of rejection, it's pretty self explanatory. That's exactly what it sounds like. It's the fear of being rejected. And this can happen really from the moment of conception and being born. This can manifest if, as a mom, if you are struggling really bad with postpartum depression or you're really, really sick after giving birth and you can't hold your baby, rejection can manifest in that way.

Alyssa Scolari [19:43]:

Again, babies need a lot of nurturing. And if their moms are there, it's a little bit different than abandonment, because it's like, I haven't been left, I see my parents are here, but I'm not getting what I need, right. That's how it kind of looks like early on, early infancy type. But then as you get older, right, rejection can also look like parents who are not accepting of who you are. We see this so much in children who show early signs of, I don't even want to say signs, I guess I should say children who try to play with toys or try to do things that don't fit within their gender norm. So if a child is born and that their sex is male and they're four, five, six years old, and they're playing Barbie dolls. Barbie dolls is a traditionally feminine, again, screw gender norms, because I don't believe in any of that, but it's a traditionally feminine toy. Barbie dolls are.

Alyssa Scolari [20:57]:

So it can look like the parents that are like, "Get rid of those Barbie dolls. You're like a little sissy. You're going to look like a girl or boys who want to wear dresses." Or, girls who want to play with trucks, right? All these things are traditionally feminine, masculine, and God forbid, kids cross over. And girls like trucks and boys like dresses, heaven forbid. Again, I don't agree with this, but when parents are not accepting, that manifests rejection and rejection can look in adulthood, it can look like the person who suppresses so much of who they are.

Alyssa Scolari [21:41]:

Sometimes it can be somebody who suppresses themselves, but still hangs out with people and is very social, right? So this person, the person in your life who you see and you talk to, but you feel like you can never quite really get to know because they keep so much of who they really are hidden from the world, right. Or it can look like that person who never socializes, who really has withdrawn and has isolated themselves because they are so fearful of being rejected again. It also can look like somebody who has a really difficult time taking feedback and Lord, oh Lord, I am absolutely that person. Or should I say I was that person because I'm actually really good at taking feedback now. But I had a really hard time.

Alyssa Scolari [22:40]:

If you work in a company and you have like your performance evaluation, right? Some people have like performance evaluation and then get nervous. Of course, that's very natural. But the people who have core wounds of rejection will be absolutely beside themselves over something like a performance evaluation. And some of them will avoid it altogether and never go and never show up and then take whatever punishment they get from work because the punishment that they will get from not showing up is easier than the feelings that they would have if they were to attend that performance evaluation and get rejected in some way, shape or form.

Alyssa Scolari [23:26]:

And if you have a performance evaluation and it's out of five stars, you get four stars. And you have one, one mild to moderate area for improvement. So people who don't have this core wound, they look at that and they go, "Okay, I did really, really great. I did great. And I'm going to con continue to work on this one thing. And that's awesome." But the people who have this core wound of rejection, it is the end of the world. And I mean that very literally. If whenever I got rejected or perceived rejection, because the truth of the matter is I wasn't rejected. When I first started out as a therapist, I would have supervision. And I would be told the ways in which I could improve. Now that is not rejection, but I absolutely perceived it as rejection, absolutely. And I would become so flooded with shame and it would ruin my day and I would cry and I would be so embarrassed. And I wouldn't want to look at my boss.

Alyssa Scolari [24:38]:

Now, a little caveat here, right. My boss at the time really didn't have the best way of saying things. So she was very blunt with me, which I don't think helped. But honestly, even if she had sugar coated everything that she said to me, I still would've been a disaster, right. Some people sugarcoat things, some people don't. I don't really sugarcoat things, but I do try to say them in a way that I know is not going to be so super hurtful. My boss really didn't care enough to do that at the time. So I just felt horrible afterwards. And like I said, even if she did care enough to speak to me in a much more respectful manner, it still probably wouldn't have mattered because of my core wound of rejection. People who have a core wound of rejection can also look like perfectionist, right. Which is me to a T. I was a perfectionist my whole life. I don't really think I am as much anymore, but it is really because I so deeply feared rejection because it is one of my core wounds.

Alyssa Scolari [25:49]:

So next, we have the fear of betrayal. This is a really tough one. I mean, they're all really tough, but the core wound is the betrayal here. And this can start anywhere from between like two to four years of age. Whereas abandonment and rejection can start much earlier. Betrayal can start a little bit later, like between two to four years and up. And really what this is in its purest form is a lack of trust in your caregiver or parent. And this can happen in a number of ways. This can look like finding out that a parent has been lying, right? Kids snoop, kids are sneaky. I cannot tell you the number of children I have worked with that have walked into my office and been like, "So I found out last night that my dad has been cheating on my mom or that my mom has been cheating on my dad and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah."

Alyssa Scolari [27:00]:

Like that can manifest as a core wound of betrayal because that child is seeing that, seeing that adult or caregiver or parent behave in dishonest ways and that child can no longer trust the parent. This happens so much with abuse, so much with abuse. Parents who are physically abusive, who hit, who try to use fear to gain control over their kids, right? Like let me get the belt. I'm going to go get that belt. I'll give you something to cry about if you don't stop crying or kids who come home from school and maybe they had a bad day and their parents are like, "You don't know what it's like to have a bad day. You have it easy. Wait until you see what it's like when you're an adult." That is creating mistrust.

Alyssa Scolari [27:59]:

You as a parent are teaching your kid or as a caretaker are teaching the child that you cannot confide in me because I am only going to hurt you when you are vulnerable or if it's like the cheating circumstance, you cannot confide in me, you cannot trust me because I am doing things that are wrong. I am not acting in alignment with the morals I am trying to teach you.

Alyssa Scolari [28:28]:

Betrayal, of course, can also come in sexual abuse. That is one of the ultimate forms of betrayal. It can come in so many ways, right. Which is why I always promote transparency with parents and kids. A lot of parents feel like I shouldn't tell my kid this. And I feel like, yes, but if your child is asking or if they're snooping, then it's probably time to talk to them.

Alyssa Scolari [29:02]:

For example, I've seen a lot of parents and caretakers be dishonest with kids about how maybe a loved one has passed. If a loved one has passed in a way that is like shameful or, not shameful because there's no way of dying that is shameful. But what I mean is like stigmatized as being shameful in society, right? So let's say that a parent passes away and the other parent tells the kid like, "Mommy died from." I don't know, whatever it could be, right? Mommy died in a car accident or mommy died of a heart attack when the reality is that mommy died from a drug overdose or a suicide, that can manifest in betrayal.

Alyssa Scolari [29:55]:

Now again, if your child isn't asking, "Well, how did mommy die?" Then that's your sign that your child isn't ready to know. Kids will ask and when they ask that means that they are ready to hear, even if it might be painful. So lying and trying to keep that lie, all that does is manifest betrayal because then that child will find out, because kids find out everything. If I have learned nothing from working with kids over the years, I know that they just know everything, they really do.

Alyssa Scolari [30:34]:

So no, that can be a very controversial topic. I feel very strongly about it. A lot of the new research coming out on parenting, they also feel very strongly about it. Lying to your kids about things like that can manifest in betrayal. So there's all different ways betrayal can manifest as with any of the other core wounds, but it creates a deep, deep sense of mistrust in one self and in the world. And this can come out in adulthood as somebody who is extremely controlling and somebody who again, might not be able to get into relationships because they don't trust other people or they get into relationships and they feel the need to control that person, right? Like I need to have your passwords, your Snapchat password, Instagram password. You need to give me access to your phone 24/7.

Alyssa Scolari [31:32]:

No, I'm not saying that transparency with social media is a bad thing, I think it's a good thing, but there's a difference between a healthy transparency and somebody who's being controlling and is like, "Give me your phone right now, I'm going through it. I want to see what's going on. I don't trust you." Without really any kind of like rhyme or reason, right? So betrayal can look like that, or it can look like the person who just avoids relationships all together. As we can see with these core wounds so far, they all deeply affect our relationship with ourselves and others, especially romantic relationships. These core wounds can have a huge, huge impact on our adulthood, which is why we are talking about them today.

Alyssa Scolari [32:26]:

So that is a lot. I'm going to stop for today. I'm going to pick this back up next week. I actually really enjoy talking about this because I feel like we can all relate. Feelings of betrayal for me personally, I can relate, but I don't think that this one is as relatable for me as rejection and abandonment, but I also tend to believe that the betrayal one is truly one of the most harmful ones. All of these core wounds by the way, we can fix, you can heal, you can get better. We are going to talk about that in next week's episode.

Alyssa Scolari [33:10]:

So I hope that you enjoyed this today. We'll be back next week with part two, where we talk about the last two and then some ways to be able to heal from these core wounds, right? The last two are fear of humiliation and injustice, fear of injustice. And so we're going to talk about that next week. And if you have any questions, you know where to find me. As a friendly reminder, if you would like any special requests for episode topics, you certainly can feel free to request a topic. If you are a Patreon member. So our Patreon is at the link in the show notes. So please feel free to go over and check that out. And if you haven't done so already, please give us a follow on Instagram. The handle is light after trauma. I am holding you all on the light. I am sending you all so much love and I will be back again next week. Take care everybody.

Alyssa Scolari [34:07]:

Thanks for listening everyone. For more information, please head over to lightaftertrauma.com or you can also follow us on social media. On Instagram, we are @lightaftertrauma and on Twitter it is @lightafterpod. Lastly, please head over to patreon.com/lightaftertrauma. To support our show, we are asking for $5 a month, which is the equivalent to a cup of coffee at Starbucks. So please head on over again, that's patreon.com/lightaftertrauma. Thank you and we appreciate your support.

Alyssa Scolari [34:43]:

[Singing].

In episode 73, Alyssa shared about her ongoing battle with endometriosis, a chronic and extremely painful disease. This week Alyssa is following up with a part 2 to episode 73, in which she shares about her recovery process from surgery in January. Alyssa opens up about the lessons endometriosis has taught her about her own PTSD recovery as well as the scary truth about why trauma treatment is crucial when it comes to overall health and wellness.

Check out the Light After Trauma website for transcripts, other episodes, Alyssa's guest appearances, and more at: www.lightaftertrauma.com

Want to get more great content and interact with the show? Check us out on Instagram: @lightaftertrauma

We need your help! We want to continue to make great content that can help countless trauma warriors on their journey to recovery. So, please help us in supporting the podcast by becoming a recurring patron of the show via Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/lightaftertrauma

Transcript

Alyssa Scolari [00:23]:

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Light After Trauma podcast. I'm your host, Alyssa Scolari, back with an update on my surgery that I had January 27th.

Alyssa Scolari [00:36]:

So I was actually just looking back to see when I released my first episode where I was talking about my struggle with endometriosis, and it was December 14th, so I have not updated you all in over two months. My surgery was January 27th, and as I was listening back to the episode that I recorded on December, well that I recorded for everybody on December 14th, I was in such a dark, dark place, and obviously that is perfectly valid. I want to let you all know that I am not in such a dark place anymore. It has been a very long couple of months. Honestly, it's been a long probably seven or eight months because I started to get sick probably around eight months or so ago. So it's been a very long process, and the last few months, especially have been understandably extremely traumatic but I think I'm finally on the other side, which is so exciting.

Alyssa Scolari [01:52]:

I have learned so much about endometriosis these last couple months and really about myself and how related this is to, I think, trauma and my trauma recovery, and I'm really excited to share that with you all today. I learned even more about endometriosis in the last two months than I knew when I recorded that first episode for you all back in December so we're just going to get into a little bit of it today. I'm really happy that I'm finally having the energy and feeling well enough, both emotionally and physically, to be able to talk about it.

Alyssa Scolari [02:30]:

So, as I said, I had my surgery January 27th. And for those of you who might be new to this episode, as I touched on, I have been really sick with severe, severe pain. Period pain that is... Really, period pain doesn't even do it justice. I was throwing up, I was passing out, I was getting my period every two weeks. I was experiencing intense inflammation and bloating and chronic fatigue. I was tired all of the time but I couldn't sleep because I was in so much pain. It truly was the worst pain I've ever felt before in my life, and I have broken bones, I, and this is a little bit of a trigger warning for anybody who's squeamish, pause now or turn the volume down right now, but I know physical pain. I mean, I broke my wrist twice when I was eight years old. The second time I broke it, the bone literally came out of my skin. I have sliced half of my finger off in a mandolin slicer and just many other things. I know pain. And when I tell you that this was the absolute worst pain I have ever felt in my life I say that while also making sure you realize that I have an extremely high pain tolerance.

Alyssa Scolari [03:52]:

So the pain was only continuing to get worse and I think it took a very significant turn for the worse in October when I really started to have severe gastrointestinal issues, which also is a side effect or a symptom of endometriosis that nobody told me about, or I wasn't informed of I should say, or maybe I didn't quite come across in my research at that point. So I was going to GI doctors because I was nauseous all the time. I always felt like I was going to throw up. I couldn't really keep anything in. It was a mess. I was a mess. I had gotten to a point where I was just juicing and just consuming juice, fruits, and vegetables and chicken broth to get any kind of nutrients in. And during that time, I was just continuing to become more inflamed and more inflamed. And when I would get bloated, I genuinely looked like I was seven to eight months pregnant. It was unlike anything I've ever seen.

Alyssa Scolari [04:59]:

So these are just a few symptoms of endometriosis. I talk more about them, so feel free to go back and listen to that episode. But as you know, I was in an extremely dark place then. I couldn't work. I couldn't eat. I had no energy to do anything. I turned 30 years old in January 6th, and it was truly the most depressing birthday of my life because I felt like I was 99 years old and all I could do was cry. I had to really stop working, and it was just very, very scary. It was all I could do even to just keep up with the clients I was seeing and be able to record this podcast, honestly.

Alyssa Scolari [05:42]:

Again, I had had this surgeon, I know I talked about this in my other episode, but just to recap, I had this surgeon who told me that basically if the endometriosis had spread to my other organs, which is very possible because this disease is essentially these black lesions that grow into your organs, they don't just grow on top, they grow into your organs, and so it has to be scraped out of your organs. And I was told that if it had spread to my bladder or other parts of my body that I could potentially need another surgery, if not multiple other surgeries. And I was also told that if the endometriosis has caused a lot of scarring, which is also a big possibility, that I could potentially have fertility issues, which was extremely frightening to me because I think that one of the things I look forward to the most in life right now is being a mom. So it was extremely scary. A huge sense of foreboding was with us always.

Alyssa Scolari [06:54]:

And to make things even worse, after the holidays, there was a huge rise in the Omicron virus. So with so many people, everybody and their mother had COVID during the last few days of December and those first few weeks of January, and I had gotten wind that the hospital that I was supposed to have my surgery at actually canceled the first two weeks of surgeries in January and they were going to reassess after those two weeks in January and see if they needed to continue to cancel more surgeries. So I was panicking that my surgery was going to be canceled. I had met somebody who had endometriosis surgery and she was actually scheduled to have it in March of 2020, right when the pandemic really hit us and we went into lockdown, her surgery was canceled and she wasn't able to have surgery until June of that year. And I understand it might seem like a couple of months, but when you are in this amount of pain every single day, I am telling you it is unbearable. I have no idea how she did it but God bless her. God bless her.

Alyssa Scolari [08:15]:

So thankfully that was not the case. My surgery went on as planned and I was really excited. By the time January 27th got here, I really didn't have many fears, which is unnatural for me because I have horrible anxiety and I had to be on birth control, which made my anxiety so much worse. So I was actually just really excited for the surgery. Went in, of course it took forever, it's an all day thing. We had to report to the hospital by 11:00 AM and we didn't get out of there until I think 7:30 at night, and most of that was just prepping me for the surgery. You just sit in a bed with an IV in and then wait.

Alyssa Scolari [09:01]:

Now, thankfully I had the most incredible nurses and my IV team and the anesthesiologist. I met people there that felt like they were my soulmates. I honestly feel like I was destined to meet them. One of my nurses was actually, I discovered, one of my neighbors. So I really hope to see her. I mean, God bless nurses right now and how hard they have it. Nurses have every reason to be miserable and hate their job right now with the way they're being treated. But I just had the most pleasant people, despite the fact that I'm sure they have all been so traumatized over the last several years, so I am really grateful for that. I honestly could not have asked for a better experience.

Alyssa Scolari [09:54]:

I went into the surgery blindly because... Well, I actually thought, and I had said this in my last episode that I did on my battle with endometriosis, I had said that the only way to diagnose endometriosis really is through an exploratory laparoscopic surgery. I have now realized that that's actually not true. A lot of upcoming research and science is telling us that if we know what to look for we actually can spot endometriosis in a transvaginal ultrasound, which I think is really neat. I think a lot of this research is new and a lot of the science is very, very new, so that's not how things work with the surgeon that I had but come to find out it is actually possible. So it pays to, if you are somebody who thinks you might be struggling with endometriosis, definitely pays to do your research and see if maybe you are able to go and see somebody who knows how to diagnose endometriosis through an ultrasound. I don't think it's a 100% guarantee. I mean, I really don't know, honestly. I'm not an expertise in that area but I do know that it's possible.

Alyssa Scolari [11:12]:

So with me, I had no clue what to expect going in. And there was huge possibility it could have spread all over, and I was actually expecting that because my symptoms only continued to get worse and worse and worse. I was really expecting for it to be horrible with the level of pain I was in.

Alyssa Scolari [11:33]:

My surgery was an hour and a half, I believe she operated on me for and I mean, I just remember everybody being so nice to me and telling me that they were going to take great care of me and then I woke up. I woke up yelling because I was in so much pain when I woke up. But as soon as I woke up, I wasn't even able to open my eyes yet, I don't know if you've ever been... If you've ever been under anesthesia you'll understand this, but you become conscious before you can open your eyes. So I was conscious, I just couldn't open my eyes, and I remember feeling so much pain so I was just moaning and they were giving me pain meds, but what I thought instantly when I came into consciousness is, "Oh my gosh, I feel better." I was able to say that even just [inaudible 00:12:31] how much pain I was in from the four incisions that I had. I was like, "Oh wow. I already feel a difference."

Alyssa Scolari [12:41]:

I think I woke up from surgery around 5:30 and I am telling you by 7;30, when I left that hospital, I was so overcome with happy tears. Man, I'm going to cry again. I was so overcome with happy tears. I nearly skipped out of there. I cannot tell you how different I felt. It felt like somebody took away whatever version that was of me and put the real me back together because I had finally felt like myself for the first time in I really don't know how long. It was simply incredible.

Alyssa Scolari [13:22]:

Now of course, recovery has been tough. Really, really tough. I felt instantly better but I needed to recover. I needed to stay home. I needed to be slow. And being slow and intentional with my healing brought up so many emotions because it really was a invasion of my womb. She took six specimens out of me and, keep in mind, as I said earlier, this isn't just something where you scrape it off the top. Endometriosis grows inside so you have to dig it out. It's called excision surgery, so she had to dig in six different spots all over my organs.

Alyssa Scolari [14:13]:

Now, she took the pictures, which I think is really cool. She took pictures while she was doing surgery on me and she sent me home with those pictures, and I was also told that she might not even know if it's endometriosis. I might not know until my post-op appointment two weeks after my surgery. So I was like, "Oh great. I have to have the surgery and then I have to wait two weeks for answers." Luckily, she was able to tell me at the hospital that she was fairly certain that what she took from me was endometriosis, which was hugely relieving. And she sent me home with pictures and she said that the endometriosis had spread, so it did spread a little bit, however, she was able to remove it from all the parts of my body that she saw it in. That was really relieving because it was looking like I wasn't going to need a second surgery.

Alyssa Scolari [15:12]:

So really the goal now that I went home, I went home feeling better already, I went home having answers. I was of course in a ton of pain from the surgery, but the goal was to just heal and recover. And that first week of being home was really a, I think, life-altering week for me because it made me realize so much.

Alyssa Scolari [15:39]:

I understand that I've talked on this podcast before about how emotional trauma can manifest and often does manifest physically, but I don't think I realized how much of my trauma I was still storing in my womb. I've never, ever agreed so much with Bessel van der Kolk's, The Body Keeps the Score. If you haven't read his book and you're interested in learning more about how trauma is stored in the body, I highly recommend it. I knew this of course, and I believed it, but I never fully comprehended it until my first week postop when I was crying every day and I couldn't understand why but it was just this grief that was welling up in me. And I didn't want to be alone, and I wasn't alone. I mean, my husband was home. He was home, he was working from home, but I was even frustrated with him for working because I felt like I needed somebody to give me 110% of their attention.

Alyssa Scolari [16:51]:

When I first noticed I was feeling that way, I started to judge myself, "Alyssa, why are you being so needy? Grow up. You're an adult. You have to take care of yourself." But then I started to process that and I started to let go of all of those judgements and I started to really understand what was happening for me and I realized that I was grieving heavily. I was grieving the abuse I endured. I was grieving the things in my life that I missed out on as a result of the abuse. I was grieving the last several years and things that have happened with... Well, honestly, I'll get more into it another time. But I know that I've mentioned that I had had a therapist who really did a lot of harm to me and I think that I was grieving that and it all just hit me. Everything that I was storing came to light and I was just feeling and feeling and feeling, so I laid in bed for a week.

Alyssa Scolari [18:10]:

Yeah, I was recovering from surgery but I was also extremely depressed. And I just let myself be depressed because I am such a chronic over-functioner. No matter how I feel, I still function at a 10 out of 10 even on my worst days. And that, my friends, is really unhealthy. So I let myself fall apart and I let myself not answer text messages and I let myself not look at my phone and I just let it wash over me. It was one of the hardest weeks of my life. I don't know that anybody could really ever understand how hard it was.

Alyssa Scolari [19:00]:

Before I went into surgery, my friend, Jen, Jennifer Burns, who was on the show, she was on the podcast, we did an episode about healing crystals, she gave me this advice that when you go into surgery, "I want you to imagine them taking your abuse out, taking it all out," and I did that. I imagined that. I brought my crystals into the hospital with me and was just holding them in my bed and was meditating and was imagining that when they were taking out this endometriosis, they were also taking out the abuse. And I think that the weight of that really hit me.

Alyssa Scolari [19:43]:

So I had a lot of time to process and a lot of time to think, and I know that in the very early episodes of this podcast I talked about childhood trauma and complex trauma, and how, if it goes untreated, it can lead to disease and it can lead to chronic illnesses and autoimmune issues. If you want to read more about that, please go to acestoohigh.com. It is really, really fascinating to learn about the long term effects that trauma can have. And I thought to myself, "I don't understand, I've been in treatment, I've been working on this. Why is this happening?" And it all clicked for me that while I have been able to intellectually talk about what I've been through, with everything going on, with having a very upsetting and traumatic experience with a therapist, and with moving and starting my business and my podcast, I really haven't had a whole lot of time to feel. I know what I've been through, I'm aware of it and I can talk about it, but I don't really feel it when I do talk about it. I've managed to dissociate a little bit, I've disconnected and I stored all of those feelings. So I understood why I got so sick this past year. I really understood it. It clicked for me.

Alyssa Scolari [21:29]:

Now, I'm going to say this, I'm no doctor, I'm no specialist in autoimmune diseases or endometriosis, but here's what I know, I know that endometriosis is being considered for autoimmune, an autoimmune disease, in the autoimmune spectrum, and what we do know... I had said in my other episode that I did that endometriosis is caused by an estrogen dominance and I've learned that that might be true, but not necessarily. At the end of the day, we really don't know what causes endometriosis. One in 10 people with female reproductive organs suffer from endometriosis, and that's probably an understatement because women are so gas lit and told that their pain isn't real so it's probably much more than that because it takes a person an average of seven years to even be diagnosed. Thank God I am stubborn and don't take no for an answer when it comes to my health and my goals and my dreams and I just kept going to doctor, after doctor, after doctor until somebody would listen to me, but not everybody can do that, unfortunately. So I would say it's even more than that.

Alyssa Scolari [22:57]:

So I would say a significant portion of women can suffer from this disease and we still don't know what causes it. There's still so much that is unknown. And over the last several months, I've taken a really big, deep dive into... I've always been interested in Eastern medicine and Eastern ways of healing, but I've taken a really deep dive into Chinese medicine, and I've learned a lot from Lily Choi. You could follow her on Instagram. I believe her handle is lilychoinaturalhealing. I highly recommend you give her a follow, she's incredible. And I have been taking some Chinese medicine and I've been really thinking about what could have caused this disease for me.

Alyssa Scolari [23:48]:

Now, again, there isn't a ton of research on the direct link between trauma and endometriosis, but that's because we really have neglected as a society how trauma can affect women long term, especially sexual trauma. It cannot be a coincidence. I can't believe that it can be a coincidence that I, with my history of abuse, just happened to have a disease in the same area that has held my abuse for 30 years or less than 30 years, whatever it may be. That can't be a coincidence. That doesn't strike me as a coincidence.

Alyssa Scolari [24:38]:

So while there isn't a ton of research out there and I am no doctor, for me, it makes so much sense that I have been holding onto my abuse and it has been really eating away at me and festering, stored in my womb. I think this is also why I have so many hip problems and lower back problems because of everything I've been holding. And this might seem like, "Well, yeah, duh," but honestly, for me, it's been a huge revelation. Despite the fact that I may talk about this on my podcast, it's a little bit different to experience this in my personal life.

Alyssa Scolari [25:20]:

I really do think that all of the chronic stress has caused me to be living in a chronic and constant state of fight or flight, which means that the cortisol levels in my body, and cortisol is the primary stress hormone in our bodies, the cortisol levels in my body have been heightened for years. I know this because I've had blood work that showed my cortisol levels are extremely high, much higher than what they should be. So for years, I have had heightened cortisol levels and what that can do is it can throw off the balance of all of your other hormones, which could potentially have led to an estrogen dominance, which could have potentially led to the growth of this endometriosis.

Alyssa Scolari [26:11]:

Again, I'm not a doctor. I really don't know the case for anybody else. I only know me and I know that the limited research that we have out there clearly shows that the amount of people with trauma are... First of all, there are so many people out there with trauma that it goes untreated for and people who might be able to talk about it but don't truly work through the feelings, and the research tells us that those people are more likely to develop diseases and chronic illnesses, heart disease, lung cancer, things like that. We are more likely. Now, again, correlation does not equal causation. So just because you're more likely doesn't mean it's going to happen to you. But I really feel like this highlights the importance of keeping your stress hormones down.

Alyssa Scolari [27:05]:

So what does that mean for me? Well, over the last several weeks, I have been working to change my life in ways so that my nervous system can take some time to relax. I've been using Chinese medicine that is supposed to help balance out your hormones. I have been setting firmer boundaries. I have been looking at the medications that I am on and looking at all of the side effects. I am taking an acid reflux pill that I didn't even know can cause vitamin B12 deficiencies. Deficiencies in vitamin B12 can lead to mental health difficulties, also GI issues. I had no idea. Nobody ever told me. So what am I doing? Well now I'm taking a B12 supplement.

Alyssa Scolari [27:58]:

So I have really been doing a deep dive into what am I putting in my body, and that is not in an eating disorder way, but how can I achieve the most balance in my body, the most balance possible, and how can I work to regulate my nervous system? So I am saying no to things that stress me out. I am saying yes to slowness. I am working hard through the guilt that comes up when I notice that I might not be as productive as I'd like to be. I am really listening to my body.

Alyssa Scolari [28:42]:

Some might say I'm overanalyzing, but I don't think I am because I have just spent so much time not listening to what my body needs and now I'm really ready to listen because I really get it. It was like my body had to be like, "Hey, if you don't start taking care of me this is what the rest of your life is going to look like." And I don't want that. I don't want that. I want more than anything to be happy and healthy and carefree. So that's what I've been striving towards.

Alyssa Scolari [29:17]:

And I have been very firm with doctors. Whenever I have a doctor's appointment, I reach out beforehand, I let them know that I have a history of trauma and that my husband is coming in to support me so that doctors can't say, "Well, you can't bring someone in because of COVID." I am not meeting with people who stress me out. I am just doing what I need to do for myself and feeling much less apologetic about it than I ever would've felt in the past.

Alyssa Scolari [29:48]:

So if you are somebody who can relate to this, this is your call to action. Take time to think about what you need to start making your nervous system even just a little bit calmer. You don't have to change everything right now. Rome wasn't built in a day. But make those steps. For me, journaling, like writing it out has really, really helped me, so I encourage you to do that too. Do what is best for you.

Alyssa Scolari [30:22]:

Now, of course, with endometriosis there's always a possibility that it can grow back. Always a possibility. That possibility is less likely when you have surgery with an endometriosis specialist, which I did. But because we don't know enough about, it can grow back. So knowing what I know about myself and my body and having this belief about why I developed this disease in the first place, I am making every effort to live more freely and easily so that I do not have this disease return. I don't know what the future's going to look like, maybe I'm completely out of my mind wrong about all of this and maybe it's going to come back regardless. But the fact of the matter is there's really nothing I can do because despite what many doctors might believe, the fact of the matter is birth control actually doesn't keep endometriosis away. All it does is mask the pain. So I can really just do what I can do, which is keeping my body as healthy and as stress-free as possible in the hopes that that is going to keep chronic illness away from me because I am 30. I have a long life left to live and I want it to be the best possible life that I can have, and I want that for you all too.

Alyssa Scolari [31:58]:

So please take extra good care of yourselves. Make the changes in your life that you need to make, whether it's setting boundaries with people who are causing you stress, working less. Remember that you are more important than money. Now, of course, that's easier said than done if you are struggling and living paycheck to paycheck, so please keep that in mind. But please remember that there is only one of you and we only get one go around in this life and we got to make it count.

Alyssa Scolari [32:31]:

So I love you all. I am holding you in the light. Thank you so much for your support throughout this entire process. I am continuing to heal. I will still be here because this podcast makes me so happy and you all make me so happy. And I think the year 2022 is going to be a really good one.

Alyssa Scolari [32:55]:

If you have any questions or any issues, again, please remember none of this was medical advice. I am certainly no doctor. But any questions, please feel free to reach out to me. If you haven't done so already, please follow us on Instagram, @lightaftertrauma. And if you haven't left a review for the podcast, please do so.

Alyssa Scolari [33:17]:

Also, if you are a patron, if you are a member on Patreon, please note that you can feel free to send specific episode requests. So if there's a certain topic that you would like, and you want me to talk about, please feel free to become a patron and you can send me a message on Patreon and I will do an episode about that.

Alyssa Scolari [33:42]:

Thank you all very much. Have a wonderful day and I will be back next week. Thanks for listening everyone. For more information, please head over to lightaftertrauma.com or you can also follow us on social media. On Instagram, we are @lightaftertrauma and on Twitter it is @lightafterpod. Lastly, please head over to patreon.com/lightaftertrauma to support our show. We are asking for $5 a month, which is the equivalent to a cup of coffee at Starbucks. So please head on over again, that's patreon.com/lightaftertrauma. Thank you and we appreciate your support.

"Good vibes only!" "Keep a positive mindset." "Try to focus on the good."

These can all be examples of a cultural phenomenon known as toxic positivity. Toxic positivity is the belief that we will feel better if we only allow space for good things and block out the bad. Sadly, this concept is extremely harmful. Tune in to learn about how toxic positivity shows up in our lives, why it is so harmful, and what we can do about it.

Check out the Light After Trauma website for transcripts, other episodes, Alyssa's guest appearances, and more at: www.lightaftertrauma.com

Want to get more great content and interact with the show? Check us out on Instagram: @lightaftertrauma

We need your help! We want to continue to make great content that can help countless trauma warriors on their journey to recovery. So, please help us in supporting the podcast by becoming a recurring patron of the show via Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/lightaftertrauma

Transcript

Alyssa Scolari [00:23]:

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Light After Trauma podcast. I am your host, Alyssa Scolari. Happy to be here as always. And today is, well, technically, if you're listening to this episode on the date that it airs, it is February 15th. But as I'm recording this, today's actually Sunday, February 13th, and this weekend has been weird. I live in Pennsylvania, so I don't know anybody who's on the East Coast area and the Northeast part of the United States or anywhere else in the world. I don't know if you've had similar weather, but this weekend has been kind of strange, like polar opposites. Yesterday is Saturday, it was, I think, over 60 degrees in this area, and it felt like spring.

Alyssa Scolari [01:15]:

My husband and I woke up and my husband was all pumped up and energetic. And he was like, "Oh, let's go to Lowe's and get some stuff to plant grass in March and," I don't know, "fertilizer." And I think there's stuff you have to put down before you plant grass. I don't know. This is not a podcast on planting grass, but it was like, "Let's go to Lowe's and let's get out." It was gorgeous, and so we went out and we did not go to Lowe's because we drove by the Garden Center and it was absolutely empty. We were like, "Ah, it might be a little too soon to start thinking about planting stuff outside for the spring." But we actually went to this what we thought was just a coffee roastery, coffee roast. I don't know. They make coffee for you to... not like a coffee shop, but coffee for you to grab and take home and have regularly with your Keurig or whatever it may be.

Alyssa Scolari [02:20]:

So we went there to try to go see what kind of coffee they have, and I am telling you, it was something out of Harry Potter. For all my Harry Potter fans out there, it was this little tiny shack on the outside, and when we walked in, it was massive, and it was nothing we would've expected. It had mazes and twists and turns, and it actually had... the halls were so narrow because it had so much stuff that you at one point had to even turn to your side and walk sideways just to move down the hallway and make sure that you didn't knock anything over. And of course, with my hips, I was hitting shit and whatever, but it was so much fun. And it didn't just have coffee, they had everything, they had every kind of tea you can imagine.

Alyssa Scolari [03:19]:

They had, I think, fancy gourmet, nuts, or chocolate covered nuts, or things that, every kind of gourmet chocolate you can imagine. They had chocolate-covered graham crackers, chocolate-covered Oreos, chocolate-covered marshmallows. And they had all different kinds of spices and PEZ dispensers. Does anybody remember PEZ dispensers? So much fun. They had Lion King PEZ dispensers and all different types. But it really was a blast from the past. There was candy there that I had not seen in, honestly, probably 20 years. It was so much fun. It was nothing like we expected. We totally got lost in there. We did end up getting some coffee and some candy. Anybody of you remember those, and I think they're actually still pretty popular, the Peach Rings, the gummis? We got the rings but watermelon-flavored, which I had actually never had before.

Alyssa Scolari [04:25]:

They're amazing. Amazing. We did that yesterday, and then we had a good day. I think we were both really looking forward to springtime and the warm weather. And then I woke up today and it was snowing, which is fine for me. I love the snow. I'm actually staring out the window as we speak watching the snow fall, and it is absolutely magical, but it's just polar opposites. Spring is around the corner, but mother nature is here to remind me and you that it is still winter, at least, in this part of the world. It's been a pretty good weekend. I'm still just over two weeks post-operation. I'm still recovering. I think there's been a lot of emotional things that are coming up for me. On Friday, I had my post-op appointment, so it was my first appointment with the surgeon since the surgery. She checked out my incisions, and she said that they look good.

Alyssa Scolari [05:32]:

And then we talked about some other stuff. Again, I'm still going to do an episode about what happened in the surgery and how I'm doing in plans afterwards, but I'm just giving myself some more time to heal. Still in some pain. It's just been very, very emotional. I knew that having surgery on my lower abdomen was going to be emotional. I knew that going into it, but I don't think I knew just how emotional. As somebody who has had repressed trauma, I've been dealing with a lot of memories that have been coming to the surface, things that I had never remembered before. And, it has felt, I think, very overwhelming and very frustrating because I had the surgery and I want to be so happy and I want to move on with my life, but my brain is kind of like, "Oh, hey, I think that it's time to remember this about your past and this about your past," and it's been quite the roller coaster.

Alyssa Scolari [06:38]:

So, I'm still giving myself a little bit of time. I'm thinking maybe next week I'll be able to do a part two to the endometriosis, like the first episode that I did, where I kind of talked more in-depth about what I'm going through. But, today, I want to talk about toxic positivity, which is always I think a really interesting topic. It's something that I think gets a fair amount of attention. Now, I do want to preface this conversation with saying this, and really all podcast episodes can assume to be prefaced with this. I have seen, over the last several weeks, on social media platforms, especially TikTok, I actually yesterday deleted TikTok from my phone. I didn't delete my TikTok account, but I deleted it from my phone because I need a break from TikTok. It is really wearing on my mental health.

Alyssa Scolari [07:42]:

And, even though I don't go on the For You page... If you're on TikTok, there's two options, right? You can go on the For You page where you can see new creators and lots of people that you don't follow but potentially could follow, and then there's the following page where you're just looking at the people that you follow. I am never on the For You page because I never want to risk something triggering come up because I just don't need that, right? I don't need TikTok to tell me what it thinks is best for me, so I'm never on the For You page. I'm always on the Following page, and the people I follow are typically pretty, pretty safe. But, honestly, it's still been way too much for me lately, so I deleted it off my phone yesterday.

Alyssa Scolari [08:32]:

One of the things that has really been bothering me, again, whether it's TikTok or Instagram, or even Facebook, is the amount of misinformation that gets spread about mental health. I mean, there's so much misinformation that gets spread about everything, but obviously me being in this field, the mental health information really bothers me the most because our profession already isn't taken seriously. As therapists, we are not taken nearly as seriously as other healthcare providers. We are rarely even considered healthcare providers, and we don't make as much as other healthcare providers. Whatever. I could go on and on. But, with the increased usage in social media, especially since the pandemic and since we were all in quarantine, there are so many people out there who are calling themselves coaches.

Alyssa Scolari [09:34]:

Again, it's nothing I against coaches. I've had plenty of coaches on my show, and it's been absolutely fine. But, so many people are just calling themselves coaches, and really they're not, or they are coaches, but they still don't have the proper training in mental health. And, because of that, they do a lot of people a disservice because what they are sharing with people, they are getting incorrect, or they're only sharing part of the truth, or they're not considering all aspects to a concept that they're sharing, and it can be really, really damaging. I think that people have really turned to the internet for self-help and for support, especially when it comes to mental health, and people are not getting a lot of the correct information. Now, please don't get me wrong. There are tons of creators out there who share incredible information, and it's extremely useful.

Alyssa Scolari [10:41]:

If you are following those people, please continue to do so, but I just encourage you to really look at who you are following and who you are absorbing content from and if they have the qualifications that they should have to be able to talk about what they're talking about. Just do a little research because I have found, especially even some of my clients, some of my new clients that have come in, they're like, "Well, for the last several years, I've been following so and so on TikTok, and they say this." And it's like, "Okay. Well, what degree does so and so have to be able to share this information?" Again, I'm not putting myself or anyone else who has a degree on a pedestal. Honestly, I think that some people who don't have the highest qualifications can be better than people who do have the highest qualifications.

Alyssa Scolari [11:39]:

But, what's important is that you are knowing where this person is getting their information from, right? Are they pulling it out of their ass? Are they qualified? Okay. So they say that they're a life coach. Well, that's great. But, what does that actually mean? What kind of training have they had? I think it's really important to pay attention to that. Again, I am not bashing life coaches. I think there are great ones. For example, on TikTok, there's a woman, her name is called Anna Bobana, I believe. She has become a life coach, and she has so much experience, so much personal experience with mental health struggles and trauma and addiction and things like that, and she's phenomenal. So, please don't misunderstand this as me bashing life coaches because I am not. It's just that I want you to remember to always see, look into what you're seeing.

Alyssa Scolari [12:39]:

Don't take what you're seeing on the internet at face value, especially when it comes to mental health, because it could be doing more harm than good. With that being said, we'll transition into toxic positivity. Now, I have seen a lot of things on the internet about toxic positivity, and I've seen a lot of things that directly counteract toxic positivity or contradict toxic positivity. There's this huge movement, and has been for several year now, about being positive and good vibes only. How many content creators and how many organizations have created shirts, hats, water bottles, stickers, this, that, and a third that say good vibes only, good vibes only, good vibes only. And that's great, right? You'll write that on a shirt in happy font, in a happy color, with a little sun sticking out.

Alyssa Scolari [13:45]:

Sounds great, right? No. Actually, that's extremely damaging, especially given the world that we are living in right now. Let me take a step back. What is toxic positivity? Well, toxic positivity is sort of this push or this assumption and this belief that despite whatever you're going through, despite whatever pain or discomfort you might be in, you should always keep the bright side in mind. You should always keep trying to maintain a positive mindset despite what may be happening. There's this meme that always comes to mind when I think of toxic positivity, and I'm sure so many of you have seen it where it's like, I think it's a dog who's sitting at the kitchen table with the newspaper open, and all around the dog there's like flames, like the whole house is on fire. The dog is just sitting there like, "This is fine. This is fine. Everything's fine," and everything around him or her or them is on fire.

Alyssa Scolari [14:59]:

I just think that that is like a perfect example of toxic positivity, right? Things around us could be on fire. In fact, the world is on fire right now and really has been for over two years. More than ever, especially in the pandemic, I have seen so many people pushing this idea of toxic positivity. "Keep a positive mindset. You have to stay positive. You have to stay strong." Let's talk about some more specific real-world examples of this. Again, let's go back to social media. One thing that I often see pop up, especially on TikTok, are these creators, whether they are makeup artists or just general content creators or stylist creators, they almost always have started either a series of videos on how to self-care, or how to achieve happiness, or how to get through something difficult, X, Y, Z, whatever it may be.

Alyssa Scolari [16:20]:

Well, I often see these people say things like, "You just have to have a positive outlook and be hopeful for what's going to come in your future," or, "You just have to change your way of thinking and believe that you are worthy of the best in life. You just have to focus on what you have instead of perseverating or ruminating on what you don't have," and that is really easy to say coming from somebody who makes hundreds of thousands of dollars or millions of dollars on a social media app. Not that their job isn't difficult because I believe at their job is actually one of the most difficult things. I think that they face more pressure having social media as their job than probably most other people, and I really believe it's one of the hardest jobs, so I am not by any means belittling or diminishing the work that they do.

Alyssa Scolari [17:34]:

But, so often, I just see them saying things like, "I make a gratitude list," and, "I focus on what I have," and, "I'm very thankful for this," and, "I'm very thankful for that," and, "That is how I pull myself out of a funk." That is so great, and I am so glad that that works, but I honestly think that so much of it is them omitting the truth. Yes, gratitude lists are phenomenal. They are great. They can really help shift your mindset. But, not many people on social media say, "I let myself sob it out. I let myself have days where I'm depressed. I acknowledge how painful this is. I acknowledge that I didn't want to get up and brush my teeth or shower today. I laid in bed for three days before I have the ability to get up and make a gratitude list."

Alyssa Scolari [18:32]:

The dark side of what happens before the positive vibes come get omitted because that's not cute to talk about. Positive vibes are what's cute. Good vibes only are what's cute and trendy. It's not trendy to say, "I really struggle to brush my teeth and eat meals today." Don't get me wrong. Again, there are some creators out there who do a really good job at this, but for the most part, the people that tend to really thrive on social media are the ones who push this positive vibes only movement. I don't hate those people. I just think that they are sort of a reflection of this larger push in society to ignore the bad and ignore the pain and focus only on the good. Now, we've also seen this a lot with this pandemic, right? People have died, people have lost their jobs, people have had loved ones that they have not been able to see in years, so much time has been lost, millions of people have been lost, people had to say goodbye to their loved ones through FaceTime, and this pandemic still isn't over.

Alyssa Scolari [19:48]:

But, what we see is people saying things like, "Oh, I'm really sorry you lost your job, but at least nobody in your family died from COVID. At least you have your health, right? I'm really, really sorry that you've been out of work for so long, but, hey, at least you've been able to spend more time at home," Or, "I'm so sorry that..." Or, a lot of times people don't even say, "I'm so sorry," right? It's like a mom who has three kids and had to work full time, now all of a sudden has three kids at home and has to do virtual schooling with them. "Oh, well, at least you get to spend time with your kids that... Yeah, virtual schooling must be hard, but at least they're home, at least you get to spend time with them, right?" It's that like, "At least this," or, "At least that," and it's so incredibly invalidating.

Alyssa Scolari [20:49]:

We often see this a lot too with parents. Even before the pandemic, toxic positivity has been a thing for ages, right? We haven't necessarily had a name for it, but it's been a thing for ages, and we see it as even when growing up. "Oh, I'll give you something to cry about. You don't have anything you need to cry about." Oh, I got told all the time, "There's no reason for you to be crying right now. There's absolutely no reason. You should be so grateful. Look at the life that you have. Look at all the great things that you have," and this is toxic positivity, right? "Stop crying. Stop focusing on what's bad. You are being selfish." And some people are even told that they're being selfish, "People have it so much worse than you do, so much worse than you do."

Alyssa Scolari [21:36]:

Now, again, I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here, but I want to be really, really sensitive about this because I know that a lot of folks who are listening to me are parents themselves. And, as parents, it's likely, it's highly likely that you found yourself saying this to your children at one point, possibly. I don't really know. And if you did, please don't beat yourself up. Please don't because toxic positivity has really been a part of parenting styles for ages. Ages, right? It's how I grew up. It's how so many people who are my age grew up. All the people who come into my office, I mean 98% of them, that's how they grew up.

Alyssa Scolari [22:22]:

They would get upset about something and their parent or guardian would be like, "You have absolutely nothing to cry about. Look at all these other things. Look at all these other things you should be happy about?" Especially when it comes to relationships, like teenagers and relationships, if there's a breakup or something like that, or you get into a fight. You're a teenager and you get into a fight with your boyfriend, girlfriend, and all of a sudden you're sobbing and you're upset because when you're a teenager, when things happen it is truly the end of the world, right? That's just how our brains are wired when we're teenagers. That's just the way that it is. And so many parents often say to teenagers, "Oh, my God, you're going to have so many more relationships. You are going to find the right person." And that's great. Those are really, really kind words to say, right?

Alyssa Scolari [23:15]:

Toxic positivity, it's not all toxic. It becomes toxic, and I think this is important, toxic positivity becomes toxic when we do not validate the emotions first. When somebody comes to you in a dysregulated state, meaning they are upset, they are sad, they are depressed, they are anxious, jumping right into, "Oh, but look at all the opportunities you have, and look at all the great things that happened to you," is not helpful because you are invalidating their emotional state. You are basically sending the message that it's like, "Please don't feel the way you feel. You don't deserve to feel the way you feel," because of all of these good things that have happened, and that is invalidating.

Alyssa Scolari [24:14]:

And that kind of chronic... especially if you're a child and you've grown up that, that constant invalidation, depending on the severity and how long it has lasted for, can also lead to PTSD. It leads to anxiety, it leads to depression, but then we also internalize toxic positivity. Because when we get upset about things, that voice that other people have said to us about, "Why can't you just be happy? Why can't you just be grateful?" we start to say that to ourselves. I even struggled with this post-surgery because I was feeling so many emotions, and I have been crying, and then I've been happy, and then I've been relieved, and then I've been frightened again, and I've been anxious, and this, that, and a third. And I often find myself in this narrative of like, "Alyssa, why can't you just be happy? You wanted this surgery, you got the surgery. The endometriosis has been taken out of your body. Just be grateful." And that is toxic positivity, right?

Alyssa Scolari [25:26]:

It can be a form of gaslighting, right? I'm essentially gaslighting myself. So, it can be very dangerous. It can have long-term effects. Again, this is when it's kind of chronic and done over a long period of time and typically by an adult or caregiver. It can certainly lead to trauma and PTSD, right? Sometimes trauma is about what we didn't get. It's not necessarily about something happening to us. Sometimes trauma can look like an absence of things, an absence of validation of our emotions. And when we have this consistent invalidation of our emotions, I mean, first of all, it only makes us perseverate on the problem more, right?

Alyssa Scolari [26:12]:

When we sit with somebody through the pain and we validate their pain and what they feel, they are more likely to move through those emotions and get back to a state of regulation. Like their nervous system being regulated much more quickly than when we try to use toxic positivity and you're going just say, "Well, you have to look on the bright side," right? And this also, when it comes to grief, is a huge thing. I find it a lot with grief or with sexual abuse, even specifically childhood sexual abuse. And people will say things, I guess we'll take grief for an example, like a parent who's lost a child, "Well, at least you have those few years with your kid," right? That is a terrible thing to say. And, again, if you've said this, I'm not judging you, I don't think you're a bad person, this is merely a learning opportunity, but it is a bad thing to say because it is so invalidating to their pain. So invalidating.

Alyssa Scolari [27:26]:

No judgment here. No judgment, no shame. We are learning, right? At one point in my life, I thought that that was the right thing to say. I did not know any better, so I am certainly not above anyone else. I have had my fair share of using toxic positivity and not even knowing I was doing it because it is so deeply ingrained in our society. I think it's worth noting that part of why it's so deeply ingrained in our society is because it gives us an out to have to process the negative feelings, especially when it comes to things like more stigmatized tragedies or issues like sexual abuse or suicide or the death of a child. These are much more stigmatized topics because the emotions that come with them can be so unbearable for people that people often will say these things to give themselves more of a sense of control. Because, truly, there are absolutely no words in the whole wide world that can accurately express sorrow or grief for somebody who has lost a child or been sexually abused or had childhood sexual abuse. There aren't words.

Alyssa Scolari [29:03]:

And when people acknowledge the pain that comes with those traumas, then they also have to acknowledge that this kind of stuff happens. And that acknowledgement in itself makes us as a society anxious because we are admitting that there are real monsters in this world, and that this world is full of so much pain, and that we don't have nearly as much control over the bad things that happen as we think we do. I hope that that makes sense. It's like people are really quick to jump into toxic positivity as almost as a defense mechanism. Because if I were to sit with you and acknowledge the pain that you feel over the loss of your child, then I would have to feel pain too, and I would have to acknowledge that this world can be a ice cold place, and that's too painful for me to do.

Alyssa Scolari [30:02]:

Again, it's not an excuse, right? It's something that we as a society have to work on, absolutely. And speaking of working on it, we all can work on it, right? I've had to work on it. Members and my family have worked on it. I've had clients who have to work on it. If you are somebody who gets a lot of toxic positivity from loved ones in your life, if you have this person in your life who you try to go to for a problem, and every time you go to them for a problem, they're like, "We have to just look on the bright side. You have to stop being so negative all the time. All right. Yeah, you lost your job. At least you have your health. At least you're married. At least this..." Whatever it may be, it can be really helpful to have a conversation with that person.

Alyssa Scolari [30:57]:

Not necessarily in the moment because I find that when people say things like that to me when I'm upset or in a dysregulated state, I tend to get very angry, and whatever's going to come out of my mouth from that moment would not be productive in the slightest. But what I find to be really helpful is trying to get your own nervous system regulated first. If that person's not able to give you what they need and they throw some kind of toxic positivity crap your way, be done, end that conversation and go to someone else or something else that can help you regulate your nervous system and feel better. Take some time. Whether that's hours, days, or months, you need to take some time. But then what I recommend is coming back to that person and saying... And sometimes it can be really hard to speak directly or face to face. So, if you want to write a letter or write down what you want to say beforehand, I've always found those things to be really helpful as well.

Alyssa Scolari [32:06]:

But go back to this person and say, "Can you understand how in this moment when I was upset and you told me to at least be thankful that I have my health, can you understand how that felt a little bit invalidating for me?" And, if they don't understand, then it's like, "Okay, but this is me telling you that that was really invalidating. And here's what I am looking for in the future from you. What I am looking for is for you to acknowledge the pain that I'm in. I don't necessarily need you to fix it. I don't need you to remind me of the good things in my life that I have. I already know of the good things in my life that I have. That being said, what's really important to me when I come to you when I'm upset is that you validate what I am feeling and just sit with me in those bad feelings."

Alyssa Scolari [33:10]:

Listen, sometimes you might have to ask this of somebody and they might not be able to give it. Some people are so uncomfortable with negative feelings that they just can't give you what you need, and that's going to be a really difficult thing to process, but we don't know what our loved ones are capable of if we don't ask them. So, if this is somebody in your life that you want to continue a relationship with, I recommend you talking to them and maybe putting it just as I had phrased it. You're not accusing them of anything. You're not coming at them. You're not going for the jugular. You're just simply saying, "This is how it felt," and then you're also letting them know what you expect. I think that that last thing is key, letting them know what you expect in the future. Because for so many people, this toxic positivity is so ingrained in them that they don't know how to empathize or sit with the bad feelings, so it is crucial to tell people what it is that you expect.

Alyssa Scolari [34:18]:

A lot of times, I think I know, especially for myself, I just want people to be mind readers. I don't feel I should have to tell somebody how to empathize, but the fact of the matter is we do, and it's not fair. It's not fair. So I do want to say that we all, honestly in school, should be taught empathy and mental health and interpersonal relationships and boundary setting should have always been a core part of the curriculum in school, a thousand percent, but that is a whole separate podcast episode. So, yes, unfortunately, we do have to tell people what it is that we are searching for. So, that is the best way to do it, tell people. The other thing is, be mindful of how you are feeling about the content that you are consuming, whether it's on podcasts, whether it is on social media, whether it's the radio, whether it's in a book you're reading.

Alyssa Scolari [35:28]:

If you are picking up on toxic positivity and you notice yourself starting to feel bad, "Oh, this person's always so happy all the time. Why can't I be happy like that person?" please take some time away. Because so many people market themselves on social media and podcasts, they market their highlight reels, the best part of their lives, they're not likely, many of them, not all, not likely to come onto the internet and talk about how they haven't showered in a week because the depression is so bad. So please try to keep that in mind. Notice how you are feeling. And if you need to take a break from following some people, just tap that unfollow button. It's not personal, right? It is not personal against them. This is about your own self-preservation. You come first. And if it doesn't feel good for you, then it isn't good for you. That doesn't mean it can't be good. Again, it can, you could find yourself in a better head space in six months from now and then go back and follow that person on social media and really enjoy all their good vibes posts.

Alyssa Scolari [36:49]:

But if it is too triggering or too upsetting for you, give yourself permission to tap that unfollow button, give yourself permission to talk to people and set those boundaries because this world loves toxic positivity, especially in this pandemic, right? "Oh, people don't have money. Oh, right. Inflation. Everything is so expensive. People don't have jobs. People are really suffering. People are still dying, but let's focus on the good," and it drives me bonkers. So, with that being said, I will close this out, hoping that this was helpful. As always, this is always a really interesting one to talk about. And I try to tread very lightly because I do want to be respectful of people, and I don't want to accuse anybody of making content or saying things with the intention of harming people with their toxic positivity. I really don't think that people are aware of it.

Alyssa Scolari [37:53]:

No blame here. No shame here. We're just talking about it. We're educating each other. We're growing, we're learning. We're making things happen. We're healing, baby. We're healing. That being said, I'm going to hop off. I'm going to go start cooking some amazing food. I'm going to sip some tea. I just bought this tea called blueberry crumb cake. Woo, it is chef's kiss. I'm going to sip some. I'm going to watch the snow. I'm going to be snuggling with my puppies and making the most out of this Sunday. I am holding you all in the light. I love you all so much.

Alyssa Scolari [38:31]:

If you have not left a review for the podcast yet, please do so. It would mean the whole world. If you are looking to support this podcast, that would be amazing as well, support the podcast financially. Anything you're able to give would be great. Please head on over to the show notes where there is a link to the Patreon where you can give as little or as much as you would to the podcast. It would be a huge help. Thank you very much. I love you all. If you can't give, that's fine too. I love you either way. Take great care, everybody. I'll be back again next week. Bye-bye.

Alyssa Scolari [39:11]:

Thanks for listening everyone. For more information, please head over to lightaftertrauma.com, or you can also follow us on social media. On Instagram, we are @lightaftertrauma, and on Twitter, it is @lightafterpod. Lastly, please head over to patreon.com/lightaftertrauma. To support our show, we are asking for $5 a month, which is the equivalent to a cup of coffee at Starbucks, so please head on over. Again, that's patreon.com/lightaftertrauma. Thank you, and we appreciate your support.

Imposter syndrome is the overwhelming feeling that we are phony or fraudulent in different areas of our lives. This psychological phenomenon causes us to attribute our successes or achievements to external circumstances rather than internal (i.e. "I only got a raise because my cousin is the boss", "I only got an A on that test because the teacher likes me"). Imposter syndrome not only deprives us of self-love and validation, but it also stops us from having the confidence to achieve our future goals and dreams. Tune in to learn about ways to combat imposter syndrome!

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Transcript:

Alyssa Scolari [00:23]:

Hi, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Light After Trauma podcast. I'm your host, Alyssa Scolari. We are back at it again, only this week is extra special. This is my first episode that I am recording post-surgery. So, I'm actually really happy because it's been a while since I've recorded anything. I had surgery, as many of you know, on January 27th for endometriosis and, before my surgery, a couple months ago, I did an episode talking about my battle with endometriosis or maybe it was a couple of weeks ago. Couple weeks, couple months, a month, whatever but I had done an episode where I was explaining what I have been going through.

Alyssa Scolari [01:12]:

So, if you missed that episode, go check it out so that you are all caught up. And, I finally had my surgery, which is really exciting, I am recovering. I have been really trying to be intentional about not rushing my healing and yeah, it's been good. I am going to do an episode updating everybody in more detail about what happened with the surgery, what they found, how my recovery was. I have a post op appointment with my surgeon on Friday, so I will have a little bit more information then and then I will be more healed and I will be in a better place to record an episode about that. I just wanted to give myself a few weeks to heal because it was both physically and emotionally draining.

Alyssa Scolari [02:12]:

So, that said, it's been a really interesting week for me as I've been, really, just embracing the stillness and I've had a lot of time to think about the podcast and the direction the podcast is going. And I also had the pleasure of receiving an incredible email from a very dear listener, you know who you are. I was actually really having a bad day in my recovery, I was in a lot of pain and I was, I think, bored out of my mind. I don't know if I was bored or depressed, honestly, maybe a little bit of both because I think that having that surgery just brought up a lot of things for me.

Alyssa Scolari [03:01]:

And so, I think I was definitely struggling with some depression, I was moping around the house and I was wishing that I could just get back to my life already. And, all of a sudden, I see this email pop through or this email came through of somebody who became a patron for the podcast which is so, so exciting, thank you so, so much. Having patrons makes this whole process so much easier and it allows me to do so much more because I'm having some type of funding for the podcast because everything right now, with the exception of the patrons, we do out of pocket so it's very expensive.

Alyssa Scolari [03:42]:

I know, as I mentioned in the past and I'm not complaining, I am more than happy to be able to provide a free mental health resource to people out there who might, otherwise, not be able to afford mental health support but, sometimes, it can become a lot. So, having people who are able to support the podcast and give in whatever way that they can is so, so helpful and so exciting and it's such an honor because I understand, especially in today's world, with inflation being through the freaking roof, life is expensive, things are expensive, people are out of work because people are getting COVID so things are really, really hard. So, the fact that people would choose to donate any amount of money to the podcast is just extremely humbling for me and extremely encouraging and inspiring.

Alyssa Scolari [04:44]:

I don't always get to interact with the people who listen to this podcast so I feel like I have a ton of friends, I know I have a ton of friends who are listening and who are supporting me but I don't always hear from all of you which is fine, there's no obligation to reach out to me but it is always special when people do and when people are able to give. It's so validating that what I'm doing is actually helping people. So, I digress. This person, she became a patron for the podcast and then she, which by the way, if you're not familiar with Patreon, you can go over into the show notes and find it. It's basically just the site where people are able to donate however much money, either on a monthly basis or a one-time thing, to the podcast or, really, content creators of any kind.

Alyssa Scolari [05:43]:

So, this person then proceeded to send me an email and, in this beautifully written email, she had said that my podcast had helped her so much through her trauma recovery process to the point where she would often listen to this podcast when she would go to sleep at night and many of us trauma survivors know how difficult the nighttime can be. And she had said that she actually is now thinking of going back to school and is applying to schools to get her master's degree in social work so that she can go on to help other people. And it was this incredibly humbling email and I read it and I started to cry. And, my husband read it, and then he started to cry. And also, side note, at the end of that email, she told me to not rush my healing which I also really needed to hear because I was definitely trying to rush my healing.

Alyssa Scolari [06:47]:

But after reading that my husband, David, was like, "I'm really, really proud of you. Look at the impact that you are able to have on other people." And I remember thinking, I wonder if she has the wrong person, at first. My initial reaction was like, "Maybe she emailed the wrong person. Maybe she meant to email another podcaster." Obviously, I know that that's not the case, she very specifically was emailing me. But at the time, I was just like, "No, she can't be. She can't be talking about me." And so, that brings me to the topic of today's episode, honestly. So, thank you to that listener who sent me that email because you have inspired today's episode which is all about impostor syndrome and you also have made me feel so loved and I really, really appreciate that.

Alyssa Scolari [07:56]:

So, we're talking about impostor syndrome today which I know so many of us struggle with and I struggle with it, too. I don't think that I struggle with it as much anymore, I definitely used to be much, much worse with it but, over time, I've definitely gotten much better with it. And impostor syndrome, it's not a psychological disorder, so to speak, it's not a mental health condition, so to speak. You're not going to find impostor syndrome listed in the DSM which is, basically, the book of psychological disorders but it still is a psychological phenomenon. And, basically, at its simplest, impostor syndrome is that feeling that you're a phony or a fraud or feeling like the only reason that you have the success that you have or the good fortune that you have is because of some external circumstance or some temporary thing.

Alyssa Scolari [09:08]:

Well, I basically only won this race because I had more time to train than someone else or, basically, I only got a raise because I've been here longer than anyone else. It's like we're always attributing a good thing to some external or temporary source rather than internal, rather than believing that we have this good fortune or this success because of who we are and because of our hard work. And, again, because of who we are, we are always deflecting. No, it's definitely because of something else. It can't possibly be because of me because I'm simply not good enough.

Alyssa Scolari [09:59]:

Now, as with most other mental health terms, impostor syndrome gets thrown around a lot and people make light of it but it actually can be quite debilitating. And just as an FYI, some of the information that I'm going to be sharing with you today, some is from just my own professional experience and personal experience with impostor syndrome but, the other information that I'm going to be sharing is from an article written by Valerie Young. And Valerie Young, basically, is this leading expert on impostor syndrome. She's given it a TED talk, she has been really the expert in this area, been doing work in the area of impostor syndrome since the 1980s. So, I am, of course, going to link that article in the show notes so you can feel free to go and check it out. But basically, it can be very, very debilitating and there's definitely some controversy on impostor syndrome which we'll get into.

Alyssa Scolari [11:00]:

But impostor syndrome, at least for me, is something that, I realize, stood in the way of my success for a while, honestly. And I'm talking about success in my career, I'm talking about success in my relationship building, success in my love life, my friendships, my ability to set boundaries, everything. So, again, while we as a society, I think, really like to make light of what impostor syndrome is, it's really a big, freaking deal, to be honest.

Alyssa Scolari [11:44]:

So, again, as I said, it is this idea that any success that we have really can't be attributed to us as individuals and has to be attributed to some other external source. Now, this syndrome does affect both men and women and especially affects members in the non-binary community, LGBTQAI plus community. It tends to affect people in the LGBTQIA plus community and women, the female community more than men and there are some pretty obvious reasons which we'll touch on a little bit.

Alyssa Scolari [12:31]:

But impostor syndrome does one of two things that are really, really debilitating. So, first, what it does is it tells you that your success has nothing to do with you personally. But then, where it becomes even more debilitating is that it tells you that because none of the success that you have had in your life so far is a result of you, that you are not going to be successful or be able to achieve your goals in the future and, therefore, stops you from pushing yourself to see what your potential is. This may look like you turning down a date if somebody asks you to go on a date because you are automatically assuming that it's going to be a failure.

Alyssa Scolari [13:34]:

This might look like you not seizing a career opportunity that comes your way, this might look like you never following through with your dream to go to Fiji, to travel the world one day because you don't believe that you have what it takes. This might look like you never trying or truly applying yourself in school because you have this fundamental belief, this core belief that you're never going to be good enough or smart enough as the people around you, therefore, you're not going to apply yourself because you are less than.

Alyssa Scolari [14:13]:

It shows up in our lives in so many ways and it does affect both children and adults. Children might not necessarily have words to be able to put to the impostor syndrome but they have it nonetheless. Now, impostor syndrome and trauma often go hand in hand. Hence, why we are talking about this on the Light After Trauma podcast. People who have been traumatized, specifically folks who have complex PTSD which, if you're unfamiliar on the differences between standard PTSD and complex PTSD, please go back to the beginning of the podcast. I think episode, maybe, one or two or three, we really talked about the differences.

Alyssa Scolari [15:04]:

I believe it's episode two on the podcast, we break down exactly what complex trauma is. And specifically for folks who have complex PTSD, we have endured an extensive amount of trauma and the neural pathways in our brains have been altered to believe that everything bad is our fault that, if good things happen, they are not going to last. Good things are very, very scary to us and we never attribute good things happening to us, we have to attribute it to some outside source.

Alyssa Scolari [15:41]:

So, those are some of the ways in which impostor syndrome can show up. For me, again, definitely affected me in all areas of my life. I think, certainly, with dating, I noticed this pattern of myself where I got to a point where I started to date men of a certain kind and not the healthy kind. And, if I were to go on a date with a man who actually was healthy and I could see myself getting into a relationship with, I was physically and emotionally unattracted to that person and I was actually quite scared of them. I felt much more familiar on men who were pretty dangerous.

Alyssa Scolari [16:35]:

I was very, very scared of men who are safe and I believed that it was because they were trying to trick me, honestly. I think I just had this belief that good men, decent human beings couldn't want me. And, if they did want me, there had to be some external reason because I'm not a good person. Even though I might be coming off as a good person and a good partner and a good girlfriend, fundamentally, I'm not and everybody around me can see that, they can see that I'm a phony, they can see that I'm a fraud.

Alyssa Scolari [17:19]:

So, if there is a good man out there who was attracted to me, well, he must be a phony and a fraud as well and he must have some ulterior motive for why he's being good to me and, therefore, I don't want him. A twisted way of thinking, definitely maybe hard to follow but it made sense in my head and I would bet that there's at least one person out there who's listening to this that's like, "Oh, yeah, no, that totally makes sense in my head, too." And there was a very similar pattern with my friends, really.

Alyssa Scolari [17:50]:

I did the same thing with friendships which is why I didn't always have the best friendships and, as a result, I don't really have many friends to this day which I think I'm okay with because I just prefer to have smaller groups. A lot of my husband's friends have become really close friends to me and they're really amazing people but, I think, growing up, I just attracted people who weren't the best of friends because that's just what felt safer to me in some twisted way.

Alyssa Scolari [18:25]:

I felt like really good people could see right through me and could see that I was just a phony and a fraud. And, I think that with school, I have a bit more confidence with school, I was very successful in school always. I was at the top of my class, graduated the top of my class, was a straight A student and here's the thing about that, though, is that I ... I'm not bragging. I hate saying this because it sounds like I'm bragging but I'm not. I never had to study, never. The only times I ever really had to study were with subjects like math and maybe some sciences like physics and chemistry, not so much biology. But for the most part, even in my master's program, I never had to study, I barely read the textbooks and I was a straight A student. And I had the hardest time admitting that I was ... Am, I just said was right because I'm separating my past person from my present person. No, it's all the same me.

Alyssa Scolari [19:42]:

I had and still have a very difficult time admitting that I am an extremely intelligent woman. It's even very hard for those four words to leave my mouth as I'm talking on this podcast. All these fears are coming up for me that's like, "Oh, God, people are going to think you're so stuck up." But I'm trying to move through those fears and, the fact of the matter is, I am a very intelligent person. I have been blessed with lots of intelligence and I'm very grateful for that. But I have always had a very hard time allowing myself to just be very, very smart.

Alyssa Scolari [20:29]:

I have always had to find an excuse. In fact, I used to convince myself like, "Oh, I must have cheated a lot in high school. I must have cheated a lot in college." I did not cheat. How does one cheat in college or grad school? How do I cheat in grad school? I absolutely did not, absolutely didn't but, in my brain, I've always have some other external reason for why I had so much success. I even graduated the top of my cohort in grad school.

Alyssa Scolari [21:04]:

My cohort, the people that I was in my program with actually used to make fun of me all the time. I was the odd person out because I didn't have to try as much as they did. Now, I'm going to stop talking about that because it actually really makes me uncomfortable to say it because I feel like I'm bragging. I promise you I'm not, I'm just trying to state the facts here and I'm trying to let myself have a moment where I can compliment myself, I can state a fact about myself that's good and just let it be good without needing a reason that isn't about me. I hope this is making sense to you all.

Alyssa Scolari [21:46]:

Impostor syndrome has also shown up in my career. Starting my own business, I will never forget, pretty much, what the days were like when I first started my own business. It was so scary for me and, as successful as I was right off the bat, my business, my private practice was so successful right off the bat and I felt so guilty because most people who start their own business struggle and struggle for years and years and years especially because I opened up my own business, what? Maybe seven months before the pandemic and it was a nightmare for so many small business owners but I had been doing so well and I could not accept that, my brain could not tolerate that.

Alyssa Scolari [22:44]:

I had to keep telling myself and one of the things I would say is, "The only reason I'm successful is because I had already built up a good reputation by working for the police department before I opened up my private practice." So, that's the only reason why I was successful and it's, A, that's not the only reason and, B, even if it was the only reason, why isn't that still good enough? Yes, I did build a good reputation for myself because I'm very good at what I do. Why can't that just be enough? Why do I always have to negate my successes and my positive characteristics?

Alyssa Scolari [23:36]:

Again, I know so many of you can relate. Now, as I've said, I have gotten so much better with the impostor syndrome over the years. I have really been able to tackle this, I actually consider myself these days to be somebody who has moderate amount of confidence. I consider myself to be a pretty competent person, not competent in all areas and, occasionally, my impostor syndrome does come roaring back.

Alyssa Scolari [24:06]:

It turns out my impostor syndrome has been playing a rather large role in this podcast and I don't think I really realized it until the person who I had talked about earlier who became a new patron for the podcast and sent me that beautiful email. I don't think I realized that impostor syndrome had such a hold on me until I got that email because what that email did is it made me realize that I am making a difference in people's lives and it caused me to go back and look at the data on all of the podcast episodes that I have done so far. And by data I mean I'm looking at all the downloads, I'm looking at all the areas of the world in which I've received downloads, I'm looking at how many downloads each episode has, I'm looking at how my downloads have increased from the very start of this podcast in August of 2020 to where we are now in February of 2022.

Alyssa Scolari [25:12]:

And the data is undeniable and is telling me something that is a little bit hard for me to grapple with because of impostor syndrome, which is, you all really love my solo or individual episodes way, way more than most of the guest episodes. And, when this podcast started, it was pretty much all guest episodes with a little bit of me doing an individual episode here and there but I didn't really want to have anybody listen to me yammer on and on and on.

Alyssa Scolari [25:58]:

So, I was like, "Oh, I'll have all these guests on," but, over the last, I don't know, what? Few months or so, really, I have started doing more and more individual episodes and I have become much pickier about the guests that come on my show. And I am very intentional about who comes on my show and I'm also very intentional about what I talk about on the show and I have forced myself, not forced, but I have pushed myself to be more and more vulnerable on this podcast and share more of my own personal battle with trauma and health issues and everything.

Alyssa Scolari [26:46]:

In a way, this podcast has really become a very safe space for me to share some of what I've gone through in the hopes that it can help those who are listening. And, again, the data does not lie. You all really like these individual episodes and, when I get emails from people, these are emails of people that are talking about these individual episodes where you are all relating to things that I am sharing. And, I've seen this trend for a while but I think, subconsciously, my impostor syndrome has kicked in and I've really told myself like, "Oh, people don't really want to hear me talk. People really don't want to hear what I have to say and who am I to be on here talking about this stuff. I'm nobody." But the fact of the matter is, is I am somebody and I have a lot of training in this, both professional training and, honestly, personal training. And I've watched my loved ones deal with this and I've seen hundreds of clients and I've worked in all different settings.

Alyssa Scolari [27:57]:

I've worked in one of the most dangerous cities in the entire country and that was my very first job out of school. I was working in one of the most dangerous cities in the country, I was working with child gang members so I have a lot of experience doing this. And I think that it really wasn't until I got that email this week or last week that I realized it's time for me to really continue to be who I am and show it unapologetically on this podcast and stop questioning whether or not people want to hear me because the downloads don't lie.

Alyssa Scolari [28:43]:

And you all don't lie who have reached out to me and told me how much these individual episodes or these solo episodes where it's just me talking have helped you. Now, don't get me wrong, some of the guest episodes have been absolutely wonderful and I've gotten great feedback but this podcast has just had a very different feel to it since I've started doing these individual episodes where it's just me talking.

Alyssa Scolari [29:07]:

So, I just wanted to say thank you all very much for the feedback and thank you for helping to pull me out of my own impostor syndrome because I am now going to be doing more and more of these solo episodes and I'm going to be even more strategic when it comes to deciding which guests I'm going to bring on, so thank you all so much for your feedback. And so, moving on to talk a little bit more about what we can do about impostor syndrome because so many of us struggle with this but what do we do about it? Well, in this article that I had referenced earlier, Valerie Young, the leading expert on impostor syndrome has a couple of tips on things that we can do.

Alyssa Scolari [29:52]:

And the first thing that she recommends is, something that I always recommend, breaking the silence. Let's start speaking about it because with impostor syndrome comes a lot of shame and shame and guilt really start to lose their power when we start talking about it. So, when you are noticing these feelings of impostor syndrome, speak out about it just like I'm doing today here on the podcast with you all.

Alyssa Scolari [30:21]:

Next, she recommends separating feelings from facts which I find always very, very helpful. When you are in your head about impostor syndrome and feeling like you're not worthy of the praise or success that you've had, I find that it's so helpful to be your own detective and sit down, take out a piece of paper or pull up a Word document on the computer and separate your feelings from facts. What are the facts about your success? And, based on the facts about your success, what conclusion can you draw? Because if you start writing down a list of facts about your success, I can almost guarantee you that the only conclusion that you can draw is that the success that you've had is a result of who you are internally, not some other external source.

Alyssa Scolari [31:15]:

Next is she talks about recognizing when you should feel fraudulent. This one is a little bit iffy to me. I think that it's the wording of this that throws me off because what she's really talking about is there are times where you can recognize and acknowledge that it's okay to feel fraudulent. For example, let's take people who have disabilities. Let's say somebody becomes an advocate, somebody who has a disability becomes an advocate or a speaker or a writer or rises to fame, you're a TikTok star, whatever you are and you speak out for people with disabilities. Well, sometimes impostor syndrome can come up in the sense that you're not going to be able to speak for everybody. Even though you represent a group of people who have been stereotyped and discriminated against, you still can't speak for everybody.

Alyssa Scolari [32:22]:

And, in that case, you're not being fraudulent, it's just important to acknowledge that you cannot speak for everybody. For me, yes, I do have training in this area and I do have professional and personal expertise but I'm never going to sit here and say that I speak for all trauma survivors, all sexual abuse survivors, all domestic violence survivors because that really would be fraudulent. I have no idea what it's like to be in other people's shoes. So, I'm speaking, really, from me and from my experiences and education. I hope that that makes sense and is not offensive because I could see how it can be a little offensive but I hope me explaining that helps you to understand what that means.

Alyssa Scolari [33:15]:

Now, she also recommends accentuating the positive which is, again, exactly as it sounds, focusing on the positive. This is really, really hard. It's nice, this is a nice suggestion but it takes a lot of hard work. It sounds much simpler than it is because we are so prone, especially as trauma survivors, to perseverate on the negative. So, what she's trying to say here, and I think that this goes back to separating feelings from facts, which is let's put more of our energy and focus in on the positive instead of all the things that went wrong, whether it's in a relationship, in a career move, whatever it may be. I think this one can be useful sometimes and not useful in other times. For those of us who are perfectionists, and I'm definitely one of them, I think that this is helpful because, again, I tend to focus on all the things that weren't good enough. So, I think take this one for what it is, really, and how it may or may not fit for you.

Alyssa Scolari [34:28]:

The next one is developing a healthy response to failure and mistake making. Again, I feel like so many of these are really similar which is really grappling with this idea of what does failure mean to you and how can we depersonalize failure? Meaning shifting from thinking that failure is this mark or this symbol that we are not good enough as humans rather than seeing failure as simply an opportunity to learn and to continue to move forward. Easier said than done, I think a lot of cognitive behavioral therapy helps a lot with that. And then, again, right along the lines with CBT, she talks about writing the rules and developing a new script which, basically, is what are the rules that you're telling yourself in your head?

Alyssa Scolari [35:26]:

If you have this motto and this narrative in your head of I'm never allowed to ask for help or I always have to know the answer to everything that somebody asks me about this subject. Well, are these rules that are going to set you up for success? Or, are these rules that are actually going to set you up to even further increase your impostor syndrome because these are impossible rules. So, let's start developing a new script which is, yes, I'm considered an expert in this area but that doesn't mean I know everything and it's okay to say I don't know. That rule is a lot more forgiving and more realistic than this narrative in our head that we're just supposed to know how to do everything in life.

Alyssa Scolari [36:15]:

Rewarding yourself, she recommends which is, again, validating yourself, being really kind to yourself, giving yourself a pat on the back for the things that you've done, visualizing your success. She talks about meditating which I think is really helpful. I think, sometimes, it's a little abstract for trauma survivors. I think, sometimes, we need more hands on stuff but I do think that visualization exercises can be really, really good and I shouldn't say that it's too abstract for trauma survivors but I think it depends on where you're at in your journey.

Alyssa Scolari [36:55]:

Maybe, sometimes, you can sit there and you can meditate and you can visualize yourself being successful and see what that feels like and work through those feelings but, sometimes our nervous systems are just too dysregulated and we can't do that and, if you can't, that's okay. In that case, I would go back to just writing down your successes, writing things down and even writing down how you're going to rewrite your roles, develop a new script, a new narrative for yourself, things like that.

Alyssa Scolari [37:27]:

And then the last one she talks about is fake it till you make it. Now, I really hate that phrase and she even admits in this article that that's very outdated. So, what that means, basically, we're not going to say fake it till you make it, what that means is continue to push yourself. Your impostor syndrome, talk about it, work through it, write things down but do not let it keep you from doing the things that you really want to do in life. Continue to put yourself out there, continue to do these things.

Alyssa Scolari [38:04]:

I'm a little bit worried every time I sit down to record but I am still continuing to put myself out there knowing that, you know what, I am going to be wrong at some point, I'm sure I've been wrong in the ... No, I'm not sure, I've definitely been wrong in the past about many, many things, I'm going to continue to be wrong in the future. People are going to call me out for it, I'm going to learn from it and I'm going to realize that my failure or my wrongdoing or my mistakes is not a result of me being a horrible human being but, rather, it's just part of me being a human being.

Alyssa Scolari [38:42]:

So, that's what that means. Continue to put yourself out there because one of the only ways to continue to combat impostor syndrome is to continue to build your confidence. So, I hope that that was helpful. Again, some of those tips I love and I think are really, really helpful, others not so much but I am going to link this article where she provides those tips in the show notes. Again, just take it with a grain of salt, remember that not every recommendation is going to work for everybody. Also, remember that recovering from impostor syndrome takes time. It takes changing the neural pathways in your brain and that's not something that happens overnight. So, try some of these things out, see what works for you and thank you all for listening.

Alyssa Scolari [39:41]:

If you like what you hear on the podcast, please be sure to go and give it a rating or a review. Ratings and reviews help so much for the podcast to grow and that is something that is really important because, the more the podcast grows, the more people can get free access to mental health education which is so important and so needed by everybody in the world. And we also have a Patreon, if you are able to financially support the podcast in any way, shape or form, that would be so appreciated. You can also find the link to that in the show notes and thank you all very much for listening. Hope this was helpful. I will be holding you all in the light and have a wonderful week.

Alyssa Scolari [40:29]:

Thanks for listening everyone. For more information, please head over to lightaftertrauma.com or you can also follow us on social media. On Instagram we are @lightaftertrauma and on Twitter it is @lightafterpod. Lastly, please head over to patreon.com/lightaftertrauma to support our show, we are asking for $5 a month which is the equivalent to a cup of coffee at Starbucks. So, please head on over. Again, that's patreon.com/lightaftertrauma. Thank you and we appreciate your support.