In Rim to River: Looking into the Heart of Arizona (University of Arizona Press, 2023), Tom Zoellner, a fifth-generation Arizonan, takes the reader on a walk across the length of the state, his narrative interspersed with essays on Arizona’s history, culture and politics. Our conversation focuses on such topics as how Arizona anticipated the Trump Era in America—how “the scent of oncoming Trumpism,” as he writes in Rim to River, became such a pronounced feature of his native state’s political and cultural landscape. Yet the story of Arizona remains in flux, as migrants pour in not just from across the border with Mexico but from fellow U.S. states. Zoellner’s Arizona may yet end up foreshadowing America’s post-Trump future.

Veteran journalist Paul Starobin is a former Moscow bureau chief for Business Week and a former contributing editor of The Atlantic. He has written for The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal and many other publications. His most recent book is Putin’s Exiles: Their Fight for a Better Russia (Columbia Global Reports, 2024).

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