We’ve reached our 10th episode of Love in Lyrics! In this season one reflection, we revisit the Taylor Swift lyrics we didn’t have time for in earlier episodes and highlight the relationship therapy concepts that came up again and again.

In this episode, we explore:

• How attachment styles shape closeness and protection
• The pursue–withdraw cycle and why couples get stuck in it
• Why protective strategies (distance, control, people-pleasing) aren’t flaws, but survival moves
• How attunement and misattunement impact connection
• The role of nervous system triggers and implicit memory in love and conflict
• The grief of “almost relationships” and why healing is never linear

As relationship therapists and lifelong Swifties, we reflect on what this podcast has become: a bridge between Taylor’s lyrics and the real-life relationship struggles and longings we see every day in our work.

This is Part One of our Season One finale — stay tuned for Part Two soon!

For more information about Lauren and Paige, please visit their websites:

Lauren Skuba, MA, LMFT

www.positivespace-therapy.com

Paige Sutula, MA, MFTC

www.rockymountainrelationaltherapy.com/paige-sutula

Therapists Lauren Skuba and Paige Sutula explore Taylor Swift’s “Delicate” through the lens of attachment theory and emotional safety. What makes love feel risky? How do we build trust in the early stages of connection? A deep dive into anxious attachment, vulnerability, and the longing to be fully seen.

For more information about Lauren and Paige, please visit their websites:

Lauren Skuba, MA, LMFT

www.positivespace-therapy.com

Paige Sutula, MA, MFTC

www.rockymountainrelationaltherapy.com/paige-sutula

Hosts Lauren Skuba and Paige Sutula return with a new episode of Love in Lyrics, diving into Taylor Swift’s “The Bolter.” Through the lens of Emotionally Focused Therapy, this episode unpacks avoidant and disorganized attachment styles, fear of commitment, and the protective strategies we develop when closeness feels overwhelming. 

Paige and Lauren explore how early attachment wounds, emotional triggers, and past betrayals can create a push-pull dynamic in relationships. They also reflect on the paradox at the heart of every relationship: we are wired for connection, yet we are different people with different histories—so rupture, misunderstanding, and fear are inevitable. What helps us stay open to love, knowing it might hurt? What allows us to risk closeness again, even when the instinct is to run?

As always, Taylor’s storytelling cuts to the core by capturing the ache of self-sabotage, the relief of escape, and the quiet longing that lives underneath it all. Through lyrics and clinical insight, Lauren and Paige explore how therapy can help us understand the parts that flee, the panic that rises when intimacy deepens, and what it means to slowly, bravely, choose to stay.

For more information about Lauren and Paige, please visit their websites:

Lauren Skuba, MA, LMFT

www.positivespace-therapy.com

Paige Sutula, MA, MFTC

www.rockymountainrelationaltherapy.com/paige-sutula

After exploring longing and disconnection in Exile, hosts Paige Sutula and Lauren Skuba return with an all-new episode of Love in Lyrics, this time unraveling the layered confessions in Taylor Swift’s “Mastermind.” Through the lens of Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT), Paige and Lauren dig into the complexities of control, perfectionism, and the deep vulnerability underneath our efforts to “get it right” in relationships. What happens when we try to engineer love to avoid the fear of rejection? How do childhood wounds shape the parts of us that plan, scheme, and strategize for connection?

In this episode, they explore how control can serve as a protective strategy, especially for those who’ve internalized the belief that their authentic self might not be enough to be chosen. With insight and warmth, they unpack how therapy can help people shift from managing love to experiencing it—messy, mutual, and real.

For more information about Lauren and Paige, please visit their websites:

Lauren Skuba, MA, LMFT

www.positivespace-therapy.com

Paige Sutula, MA, MFTC

www.rockymountainrelationaltherapy.com/paige-sutula

After a brief hiatus—spent presenting at a conference and enjoying the holidays—hosts Lauren Skuba and Paige Sutula return with a fresh episode of Love in Lyrics. This time, they delve into Taylor Swift’s evocative track "Exile," exploring its emotional depths through an attachment-based lens rooted in Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT).

In this episode, they examine how sending subtle signals to try to get our needs met can contribute to feelings of disconnection in relationships. The discussion touches on the common fantasy that our partners should instinctively understand our desires, while also unpacking how conflicting attachment strategies—intended to protect us—can inadvertently create distance.

With insightful commentary and relatable examples, this episode bridges the gap between lyrical interpretation and real-life relational challenges. Whether you’re a devoted Swiftie or simply curious about the complexities of love and attachment, join Paige and Lauren for another musically enriching and emotionally enlightening conversation.

For more information about Lauren and Paige, please visit their websites:

Lauren Skuba, MA, LMFT

www.positivespace-therapy.com

Paige Sutula, MA, MFTC

www.rockymountainrelationaltherapy.com/paige-sutula

Join two Marriage and Family Therapists, Paige Sutula and Lauren Skuba for the next episode of Love in Lyrics, where we explore the infamous song, “You’re Losing Me” from the Midnights Album. In this episode, we discuss the impact of feeling disconnected within relationships. Through the lens of Taylor's evocative lyrics and the song's haunting production, we delve into the ways relationship stress can take a toll on our bodies and overall health. Drawing connections to Emotionally Focused Therapy, we discuss the concept of the negative interaction cycle—how patterns of behavior can perpetuate feelings of disconnection and distress. We continue to explore attachment strategies and non-verbal signals we send to our partners when we seek connection. Whether you’re a die-hard Swiftie or simply looking to explore the complexities of love and relationships, this episode offers valuable insights and heartfelt discussions that resonate with anyone who has ever felt the weight of relational uncertainty.

For more information about Lauren and Paige, please visit their websites:

Lauren Skuba, MA, MFTC

www.positivespace-therapy.com

Paige Sutula, MA, MFTC

www.rockymountainrelationaltherapy.com/paige-sutula

Join two Marriage and Family Therapists, Lauren Skuba and Paige Sutula in this episode of “Love in Lyrics” as they break down Taylor Swift’s “Labyrinth” from her album Midnights. In this episode we discuss the dilemma of relationships and the stages of grief that can occur as we process the ending of a relationship and the beginning of a new one. Pulling in concepts from relationship therapy, Paige and Lauren explore Taylor’s lyrics and discuss the fears of repeating old patterns and being vulnerable when entering a new relationship. We discuss working relationship models and how our early experiences of connection can impact how we show up in relationships in the present. We explore concepts from neurobiology, including implicit and explicit memories and how implicit memories from the past can impact our day to day emotional experiences. Taylor’s lyrics allow for a visceral exploration of the range of emotions we experience within relationships.

For more information about Lauren and Paige, please visit their websites:

Lauren Skuba, MA, MFTC

www.positivespace-therapy.com

Paige Sutula, MA, MFTC

www.rockymountainrelationaltherapy.com/paige-sutula

In this episode, Lauren Skuba and Paige Sutula, two marriage and family therapists, dive deep into Taylor Swift’s “How Did it End” from the Tortured Poets Department album. This episode focuses on themes of relationship endings, exploring concepts such as protective strategies, relationship patterns, and the process of repair within relationships. We explore how ruptures are an inevitable part of relationships, and discuss the benefits of relationship therapy to help couples decrease the amount of ruptures occurring, and increase the ability to repair after conflict. As two relationship therapists, we also highlight the power of working through a relational lens with individual clients to process the ending of a relationship, and gain insight into their own attachment strategies. As always, Taylor Swift's powerful lyrics serve as a gateway for deeper discussion about human connection and the therapeutic process in relationship therapy.

For more information about Lauren and Paige, please visit their websites:

Lauren Skuba, MA, MFTC

www.positivespace-therapy.com

Paige Sutula, MA, MFTC

www.rockymountainrelationaltherapy.com/paige-sutula

Join us, Paige Sutula and Lauren Skuba, two Marriage and Family Therapists, for our second episode of Love in Lyrics, where we discuss Taylor Swift’s song loml from her most recent album, The Tortured Poets Department. In this episode, we explore the human need for connection and discuss the patterns of communication that can lead to disconnection in relationships. We discuss concepts from the therapeutic approach Emotionally Focused Therapy that is based in attachment and explore working models of relationship. We continue to explore how the process of couples therapy and relationship therapy can deepen partners’ understanding of the patterns of disconnection present in their relationship by working together to explore past relationship experiences, attachment strategies, and current protective behaviors. We explore how this process can help partners slow down in the present moment to facilitate new experiences of connection and build secure attachment.

For more information about Lauren and Paige, please visit their websites:

Lauren Skuba, MA, MFTC

www.positivespace-therapy.com

Paige Sutula, MA, MFTC

www.rockymountainrelationaltherapy.com/paige-sutula

In our first episode, we share a little bit about who we are, what brought us to do this podcast, our experience and training as Marriage and Family Therapists, and how we hope to explore common relationship dynamics through Taylor Swift's lyrics. We begin this exploration with the lyrics from So Long, London from Taylor Swift's new The Tortured Poets Department album and the relationship themes that stand out to us . We discuss attachment styles and strategies, the change process in therapy, and some of the common dilemmas that people experience when seeking connection in relationships.

For more information about Lauren and Paige, please visit their websites:

Lauren Skuba, MA, MFTC

www.positivespace-therapy.com

Paige Sutula, MA, MFTC

www.rockymountainrelationaltherapy.com/paige-sutula