Jeffrey Ladish is the director of Palisades research, and AI safety organization based in the San Francisco Bay. Our previous conversations about the dangers of AI left us insufficiently concerned. Ladish takes up the mantle of trying to convince us that there's something worth worrying about by detailing the various projects and experiments that Palisades has been undertaking with the goal of demonstrating that AI agents let loose on the world are capable of wreaking far more havoc than we expect. We leave the conversation more wary of the machines than ever - less because we think hyper-intelligent machines are just around the corner, and more because Ladish paints a visceral picture of the cage we're building ourself into.