In this episode, I talk to Vicky Pryce, economist and commentator and previously Director General for Economics at the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills.

Vicky is a prolific author, whose books include Greekonomics: The Euro Crisis and Why Politicians Don’t Get it”, “Prisonomics” and “Why Women Need Quotas”. She has also held a variety of positions – Joint Head of the UK Government Economic Service, Partner at KPMG, Co-Founder and Chair of Good Corporation, as well as numerous academic and advisory posts.

In this interview we talk about how she began her journey when she left Greece at the age of 17 and began a rapid rise into the world of economics, and when she began to see how the field could make a positive impact on society. What she learned along the way, with some solid gold advice on how young people can progress quickly in their own chosen field. We talk about how she took opportunity from her high-profile adversity when she was imprisoned for taking speeding points for her then-government minister husband, and why she believes now that there should be quotas for women in business.

Vicky is thoughtful, sharply intelligent and articulate, and passionately committed to making a difference. This was one of my favourite interviews to date, and I’m sure you’ll get a lot of value from it.

Show notes

What did the world look like to the young Vicky as she left Greece at the age of 17 to move to London? (2:03)

What was it like growing up in the dictatorship in Greece? (5:24)

The challenges of studying economics at the LSE and making early protests (7:43)

Vicky’s early adventures in misleading Canadian tourists (10:40)

The first step into the world of work, why rapid advancement followed, and why smaller organisations can be a great place to start a career (11:40)

Vicky’s role as corporate economist for Exxon (16:34)

The move to KPMG as Chief Economist, and why it pushed Vicky towards practical real-world applications not just forecasts (21:34)

Why working for the public sector gave more opportunities for making a real impact on society (25:30)

Co-founding and chairing Good Corporation (27:56)

The path that led to publishing Vicky’s first book Greekonomics, and the astonishing reality of what has been happening in Greece in recent years (30:53)

What Vicky discovered was wrong with the womens’ prison system during her time inside that led to her book ‘Prisonomics’ (36:14)

How did the adversity of that time change Vicky’s character? (41:35)

Why does Vicky believe there should be quotas for women in business? (44:21)

Vicky’s personal purpose (50:21)

One single practical change Vicky would bring about before she hung up her gloves (50:32)

One piece of advice she would give to her younger self (50:42)

Who is an impressive change-maker Vicky has been inspired by? (50:55)

What mistake has Vicky made that led to some learning or personal growth? (51:55)

What habit would Vicky most want to change? (52:15)

What book, or books, have inspired Vicky’s thinking or her life? (52:51)

What advice would Vicky give to young people looking to be successful and also make an impact on the world? (53:21)

Links

Vicky on twitter

Vicky’s website

Dr Fisher of Geneva or the Bomb Party, by Graham Greene

In this episode, I talk to Andy Wales, the Chief Digital Impact & Sustainability Officer for BT, and formerly the Corporate Affairs Director for SABMiller Europe.

Andy is a smart and skilful change-maker with a great track record in some of the most dynamic corporate sustainability programmes we’ve seen in the last two decades.

In this interview we talk about how his upbringing and family background set him almost immediately on the search for effective social impact, how he went on to learn how to make a real difference in a number of important companies in recent years, and what he’s learned along the way about how to make change that sticks.

Andy is a thoughtful and articulate advocate. We get into some detail about the issues he’s tackled and how others can go about making an impact in their own situation.

Show notes

What did the world look like to the young Andy Wales? (1:38)

At what point did Andy see that making an impact could be part of his day job? (4:02)

When Andy joined Interface, early as it was on its sustainability journey, what did he find there and what were the priorities? (5:58)

What happened with Interface’s two ahead-of-their-time experiments – the one that worked and the one that didn’t? (8:16)

What Andy worked on that took him to Severn Trent, and what was learned that led to the company being split up (10:37)

One of the general challenges for the water industry around sustainability (12:31)

What were some of the highlight issues from Andy’s time at SABmiller, and what was its distinctive culture that made such a big difference to how it worked? (13:52)

When companies talk about how much water it takes to make a product, is it really as clear-cut as that sounds? (16:13)

What special issues apply to companies like alcohol companies, where they want to sell lots of product, but not too much so that it becomes a social problem? (18:20)

What sort of interventions can an alcohol company make to tackle problem drinking whilst remaining successful? (21:14)

What has Andy learned over his career about how a change-maker can work with a large company to drive sustainability? (22:49)

When leadership and ownership of businesses change so often, what can corporate responsibility teams do to ensure commitment to sustainability survives the change? (24:37)

What are the three areas Andy’s now focusing on at BT? (26:25)

How is successful, lasting impact achieved? (29:29)

Where are the areas where we need to do better to achieve sustainability? (31:35)

Does Andy have a personal purpose, and what is it? (33:30)

If there was one practical change Andy could bring about before hanging up his gloves, what would it be? (33:52)

What advice would Andy give to his younger self? (34:35)

Who’s an impressive change maker that Andy has been inspired by? (36:11)

What mistake has Andy made that led to some personal growth or learning? (37:14)

What one habit would Andy like to change? (38:04)

What book or books has made an impact on Andy’s thinking or his life? (38:30)

What advice would Andy give to young would-be change-makers just setting out? (39:15)

Links

Andy Wales on twitter

BT

In this episode, I talk to Ravinol Chambers, the founder of Be Inspired Films - a multi award-winning video production company that helps individuals and organisations working as a force for good across business and society to bring their stories to life.

Only last year, Be Inspired Films added to its haul of industry awards as ‘Production Company of the Year’ at the Recommended Agency Awards.

Rav is a regular speaker on ‘harnessing the power of storytelling’ and ‘using video to raise funds for positive change’

In this interview we talk about how Rav got here, including his journey from would-be stockbroker to buddhist monk and back again, how he set up his socially-minded small business and some of the challenges he faced – and why criticisms of his current passion project led him to push even harder to make it an effective documentary in the cause of promoting the education of girls in India.

Rav has a great positive energy and is a real blend of creativity, entrepreneurship and social conscience. We have a great, and sometimes spirited, conversation I’m sure you’ll get a huge amount from – so let’s jump straight in.

Show notes

What did the world look like to the young Ravinol Chambers as he left school? (2:00)

How Rav went from conventional goals to a complete change in perspective (4:09)

The sequence of events that exposed him to a very different type of community (5:37)

What happened when Rav decided it was time to rejoin the conventional world (11:52)

The challenge of entering a new career from a standing start with an unusual CV (15:24)

How film making and video became the focus (17:57)

How did the social mission move centre stage? (20:10)

Some of the lessons from the early years of Be Inspired Films (24:08)

The power of pursuing only work that fits your values and sparks your interest (29:19)

Why you shouldn’t be afraid to learn from your critics (31:08)

Ravinol’s current passion project that has been a big focus over the last couple of years (32:49)

Where there’s a social issue, all citizens should be concerned and should have a voice – regardless of what boxes people might want to put them in (38:31)

Story-telling has become hugely important – but what makes a good story? (48:35)

Some of the main lessons Ravinol has learnt about business and life over the last decade (50:53)

Ravinol’s personal purpose (58:40)

If there was one change you could bring about in the world before you retire, what would it be? (59:01)

What advice would Ravinol give to his younger self? (59:19)

Who are some impressive change makers you’ve appreciated? (1:00:31)

What mistake have you made that led to some important lesson or personal growth? (1:02:48)

What habit would Ravinol most like to change? (1:03:59)

What book, or books, have made a big impact on Ravinol’s life? (1:05:02)

What advice would Ravinol give to young would-be change-makers about taking the first steps? (1:06:52)

Ravinol on twitter

Be Inspired Films website

Bhagavad Gita

Famous Five

In this episode, I talk about the value of having a personal purpose – what it is, and how you can go about creating one.

Lots of the most successful sports people, business executives and other leaders have been successful precisely because they have defined for themselves what they’re trying to achieve in life, and what success would look like. If you don’t frame your own direction, then you will drift on ‘default’ mode, at the mercy of pure fluke as to what opportunities come along to shape your career and ultimately your life.

The main reason we don’t create personal purpose is that – when staring across the blank space we have to play with – it can feel incredibly hard to pin down what it is we’re really about. This episode aims to give you a starting point so you can also discover the benefits of a deliberate life, lived on your terms.

Show notes

What Rob Cameron said about searching for his personal purpose last time (00:58)

The seminal management book that first highlighted the value of a purpose-beyond-profit for corporations (02:00)

What is a personal purpose? (4:51)

Examples of the stated purpose of well-known people (6:40)

All the executives who work hard to make money and only then realise that they’re missing meaning (8:52)

People living their life in the default setting, not making deliberate choices (10:40)

Why have a personal purpose? (12:08)

Use purpose as a tool, not something that becomes oppressive (17:14)

How should you go about creating a personal purpose? (17:43)

Using the successes you had to date as a starting point, along with your values (19:32)

Identifying the scope of your intended impact (20:25)

How to go about writing down a first draft purpose (22:50)

Why I’m doing this exercise again, and what I came up with last time (23:57)

Moving from the purpose to the “and therefore …” three steps (24:52)

Why having personal purpose helps you not to get sucked into negative frames (26:50)

Links

Download the Personal Purpose Framework

Built to Last

In this episode, I talk to Rob Cameron, the chief executive of the consultancy and think tank Sustainability.

Rob has been the CEO of a sustainability-focused communications company, Flag – he has been CEO of Fairtrade International and now, in his current role, deals with some of the major global businesses that see themselves on the journey for a sustainable future.

In this interview we talk about how he came to be where he is today and how he had to find his direction along the way. We talk about some of the campaigning issues he’s dealt with, particularly on areas such as fair trade and the impact it has on growers across the world, and latterly the emerging area of antimicrobial resistance.

Rob has been a personal friend of mine for many years, and he’s consistently been one of the more thoughtful and eloquent leaders in the area of sustainability. We cover a lot of ground in this interview, and I think you’ll find it a great listen.

Show Notes

What did the world look like to the young Rob Cameron? (1:37)

Why starting in sales makes sense when you don’t know your direction or purpose (2:27)

How Rob ended up at a relatively early age in charge of the company that came to be known as Flag (3:27)

Changing the name to Flag, and why generic descriptive names are not good names for a business (4:27)

The early signs in Rob that he would come to focus on responsibility (5:31)

How Rob came to focus on corporate sustainability as a key focus for the company (7:48)

The major employee communications project that had a significant impact on accident rates in a large company (9:12)

Some of the starting points in getting to grips with corporate responsibility (11:59)

The challenge of doing sustainability communications with large corporates (15:19)

How Rob invested time and energy into getting into the network of sustainable business (16:26)

How Rob came to the point where it made sense to sell Flag (18:33)

The experience of becoming an employee in the company you formerly owned (20:38)

Rob’s move from Flag to become CEO of Fairtrade International (22:27)

The importance of the Fairtrade mission and the challenges it faced as the agenda became mainstream (27:10)

What role do schemes like Fairtrade have in continuing our progress in reducing absolute poverty worldwide? (29:44)

How important is it that some significant companies have moved away from Fairtrade in recent months? (31:34)

Rob’s move to Sustainability – a consultancy but not a standard consultancy (33:33)

How Sustainability works, both as a consultancy and as a think tank (35:21)

Why you can’t predict the future by simply extrapolating existing trends, and why ‘standing in the future’ can give a different route to insights (37:14)

The issues we need to be aware of that are coming into prominence (39:00)

One practical change Rob would like to make before hanging up his gloves (40:33)

Advice Rob would give to his younger self (41:16)

Who are some impressive change makers that have inspired Rob, and why? (42:41)

What mistake has Rob made that led to a better outcome or personal growth? (44:59)

What habit would Rob like to change? (45:28)

What books have had a powerful impact on Rob’s life? (46:11)

Advice to people just starting out who want to make a difference to the world (47:52)

Rob on Twitter

Sustainability website

Sustainability on Twitter

Books in this episode

Aesops Fables

Tale of Two Cities, Charles Dickens

Zen in English Literature, RH Blyth

In this episode, I talk to Joost Oorthuizen, the chief executive of IDH, the Sustainable Trade Initiative.

Joost has led IDH for the ten years since its founding, and in that role has helped to broker projects on the ground in a number of sectors such as cocoa, palm oil, tea and many more, which have made real concrete progress in boosting sustainability and livelihoods for many thousands of people.

In this interview we talk about how he got to IDH, the five focuses they use to make the biggest impact on people’s lives and on the environment, and what are the priorities for action in the future.

Joost is a fantastic example of someone who took the opportunities in front of him to make a real difference to the world, and if that’s your aim as well, you should get a lot from this interview.

Show notes

How famine and the threat of war shaped Joost’s early outlook (1:45)

How come Joost became exposed at an early stage to the problems of poverty in developing country environments (2:55)

Why Joost moved from academia to become a change consultant, and what it taught him about the process of change (4:25)

Why public private partnerships were an early focus (7:01)

How and why IDH was created (8:35)

The vision for IDH at its creation, and the early first steps (11:25)

What drove the early engagement of the private sector in IDH (13:27)

What IDH has become now that it is ten years old (14:34)

The actions taken in cotton production that has made Better Cotton 20% of the world market (16:17)

The development of conditions in production of tea (19:13)

The obstacles to progress in getting decent wages for tea workers (21:47)

The five ‘externalities’ that IDH focuses on (25:28)

Inclusive business models for smallholders across the world (26:05)

Working to reduce and reverse deforestation (28:18)

Wages and labour conditions to continue progress on reducing poverty (32:55)

Responsible agrochemical management (33:58)

Gender equality and female empowerment (35:05)

What are the more important changes we need to achieve for the future? (37:02)

What has Joost learned over the decade about what makes a partnership successful? (39:45)

What are Joost’s ambitions for the next ten years at IDH? (42:02)

One change Joost would most want to achieve before hanging up his gloves (44:23)

Advice Joost would give to his younger self (45:03)

Change makers Joost has been inspired by (45:48)

Mistakes that Joost has made that turned out all right anyway (47:07)

A habit Joost would like to change (47:47)

Books that have had an impact on Joost’s life (49:10)

Advice that Joost would give to young change makers just starting out (50:30)

Links

IDH website

In this episode, I talk to Trewin Restorick, the founder of environmental communications charity Hubbub UK, which aims to create real practical change with positive messages and creative ideas.

He was the founder and CEO for 20 years of Global Action Plan, a UNEP-endorsed environmental organisation that ran award-winning behaviour-change programmes with businesses, schools and communities. Trewin was chair of the Environmental IT leadership team, co-chaired Defra’s Compact Group, and was trained as one of Al Gore’s UK Climate Change ambassadors. He is a frequent commentator on Channel 4, Sky, the BBC and CNN.

We talk about how he ended up getting into environmental issues, and why he moved away from a typical campaign model looking for positive vehicles to make lasting change. We talk about what he’s learned over the years about what works and what doesn’t, particularly in relation to some difficult areas such as food waste and even street littering.

Trewin is one of those people that has spent a lot of time trying to work out what actually makes a difference as opposed to simply making gestures, and this interview goes into some really useful detail.

Show notes

How did the world look to the young Trewin Restorick? (2:04)

What reaction was there from family and friends when he opted to go to Friends of the Earth? (4:28)

The experience of being at the heart of the environment campaign at a pivotal point in its history, and the gap between the anti-corporate campaigners and those that wanted business to be collaborators (5:23)

When Trewin realised it was time to take a different approach that would be more effective than campaigning (7:40)

Global Action Plan – what defined its purpose and why it was effective (8:46)

What were some of the highlights of what was achieved by Global Action Plan through it’s first twenty years? (11:03)

The concept and purpose of Hubbub UK, Trewin’s current company (14:39)

One of the examples of behaviour change in practice – the ballot bins (17:48)

What works and what doesn’t when it comes to getting people to reduce food waste? (21:15)

The habitual behaviours that work on reducing food waste (26:32)

Are we inherently unsuited to reducing waste because of our basic psychology? (28:10)

The catalyst for change that came from Blue Planet – and the value / action gap that needs to be challenged (29:39)

Social media is not the same as campaigning – the dangers of unengaging ‘clicktivism’ versus using social media to amplify and spread what works (31:15)

Hostility to environmental messaging and the polarised debate in current society (33:20)

Is Trewin an optimist or a pessimist after three decades dealing with environmental issues? (35:22)

One practical change Trewin would like to see before hanging up his campaigning gloves (37:17)

What advice would Trewin give to his younger self? (39:20)

Who are some of the most impressive change makers Trewin has met and been inspired by? (40:22)

What mistake has Trewin made that led to learning or a better future outcome? (41:09)

One habit Trewin would like to change (42:35)

Books that have influenced or changed Trewin’s life (43:06)

Advice that Trewin would give to younger would-be change makers who are just setting out on the journey (44:12)

Hubbub’s vlogging channel (45:35)

Links

Trewin on twitter

In this episode, I talk to David Goodhart, author of the hugely influential book ‘The Road to Somewhere – The new tribes shaping British politics’, praised as a ‘book of the year’ by the Sunday Times, Guardian, Telegraph and The Economist in 2017. It is described by many as the book that explains the new post-Brexit and Trump world, and challenges us to think afresh about the nature of the job at hand.

He was the founding editor of Prospect magazine, and was the director of think tank Demos. He is currently part of the Policy Exchange think tank, where he specialises in demography and immigration issues.

We talk about how his thinking developed as his journalistic starting point put him in the viewing gallery for some of the pivotal historical events of the last few decades of the 20thcentury. We talk about the controversial essay that thrust him into the spotlight, and we talk about his thesis – that separately to old left versus right divisions we now have a powerful dynamic between what he labels as somewheres and anywheres.

How did the world look to the young David Goodhart fresh out of university? (2:07)

How David got into journalism (3:34)

The stroke of luck that propelled him into the Financial Times to cover the last great strikes of the Thatcher era (5:32)

The job nobody else wanted that became the right place at the right time (10:22)

How David decided to found Prospect magazine, and what made it distinctive (12:34)

What did Prospect contribute through its early years? (16:28)

The most important thing David wrote in his life, and the impact it had on his direction (18:08)

Social media and the phenomenon of less civil political discourse that has resulted (22:02)

The evolution of David’s thinking that let him to the Road to Somewhere (24:25)

The value divide between Anywheres and Somewheres (25:40)

The spectrum between achieved identities and ascribed identities and gulf of how they’re impacted by social change (28:02)

The backlash from Somewheres that has led to Brexit and Trump (30:26)

The potential to create empathy and common ground between Somewheres and Anywheres (34:12)

The hidden majority whose ranks David feels he has now joined (36:58)

The rise of populist politics and the values stalemate we now find ourselves in (38:30)

What is one practical change David would like to make before hanging up his gloves? (44:16)

What advice would he have for the younger David? (44:53)

Who are some change makers that David has found impressive and why? (45:09)

What books have made an impact or changed David’s life? (46:55)

Links

David Goodhart on Twitter

Policy Exchange Institute

The Road to Somewhere

British Attitudes Survey

Other books mentioned

The British Dream - David Goodhart

The Future of Socialism - Anthony Crosland

Contemporary Capitalism – Hollingsworth/Boyer

Minorities in the Open Society - Geoff Dench

Transforming Men – Geoff Dench

In this episode, I talk to John May, the secretary general of the Duke of Edinburgh’s International Award. He describes himself as a campaigner, storyteller, teacher, youth worker, independent diplomat, writer, broadcaster, urban cyclist, avid parkrunner, habitual chocolate cake eater and mischief-maker.

He has spent his career working with, and for, young people in the UK and across the world. He was formerly the chief executive of Young Enterprise, and the founding CEO of Career Academies UK, which became Career Ready. He worked to get businesses involved with supporting education through Business in the Community. And he was set up for all of this by his earlier stint as head teacher for Manor Farm School in High Wycombe.

In this interview we talk about what he learned by cutting his teeth as a teacher in one of the most challenging and deprived areas in the country. We talk about the experiences that can help young people to become active citizens, and whether those have changed with the rise of the post-millennial generation. And the one imperative that keeps John – and rather a lot of other leaders – awake at night.

Show Notes

What is the Duke of Edinburgh’s International Award? (02:09)

What is John May’s personal purpose? (4:33)

What the world looked like to the young John May (5:10)

What early indication was there of the values that would define John in later life? And how did these develop through his early life? (6:50)

How did the experience of working in a disadvantaged school make John reflect on his upbringing? (12:28)

The time when John provoked complaints at a Scouting conference with a surprising outcome (15:33)

How did John advance so quickly to the status of head teacher? (18:40)

What were the most challenging aspects of being a head teacher? (20:05)

Why did John leave teaching to work with businesses through Business in the Community? (21:00)

What did John do with businesses to engage them effectively with the education agenda? (24:27)

From John’s travels across the world with the Duke of Edinburgh’s International Award, what has he picked up about the current state of young people around the world? (29:05)

What are the hard-to-measure aspects of development we’re missing in how we measure our progress in development? (32:01)

How different is the current generation of young people, and what distinguishes it from what came before? (34:53)

How much is generational conflict now a fact of our reality? (38:52)

What has been learned in recent years about how to motivate young people to become active citizens? (40:30)

What are the concerns that keep John awake at night? (42:05)

One practical change John would like to make before retiring (46:15)

What advice would John give to his younger self? (46:52)

What change-makers have inspired John and why? (47:36)

What mistake has John made that led to some better outcome or personal growth? (49:01)

What book has influenced John or made a difference to his life? (49:57)

What advice does John give to young people seeking to make their mark on the world? (51:18)

Links

John May on twitter

John May's blog

Duke of Edinburgh's International Award

The Silver Sword, by Ian Serraillier

In this episode, I talk to Chris Harrop, the group marketing director and the head of sustainability for Marshalls plc.

In addition to those roles, Chris is chairman of Made in Britain, and was formerly chairman of the UN Global Compact UK network. He’s a non-executive director of the Ethical Trading Initiative. He was named as a Hero of Sustainability by Ethical Corporation in 2007, and a Business Game Changer by Business in the Community in 2012.

We talk about the dramatic pivotal moment when he knew he had to take a lead in tackling child labour in Indian sandstone – and the mistakes that he feels they made at the start in attempting to tackle that most difficult of issues. We discuss the incredible and creative ways Marshalls is now building sustainability into its products, and share some reflections on how to be influential and make a difference in your career.

I have counted Chris as a friend for many years, and I regard him as one of my personal heroes for the commitment he’s brought to tackling some of the most difficult issues a company can deal with. In the early days, he was leading the fight on child labour and it was by no means obvious that Marshalls would be able to survive in the marketplace with a product that was necessarily going to be a third more expensive than that of its competitors. It was a commercial risk, with no guarantees of success.

SHOW NOTES

Chris’s personal sense of purpose (2:18)

What did the world look like to the young Chris Harrop? (4:14)

Early influences – successful marketing based on truth (7:14)

What Chris learned from his time at Shell (8:32)

How things began to change when Chris joined Marshalls (10:40)

How the use of Indian sandstone raised questions about child labour (13:55)

Marshalls early attempts to fix the problems, and what was learned (17:15)

When the consequences of fixing the problem is increased costs to the business (20:28)

Where are they now, after the lessons have been learned? (22:03)

Do measures to improve supply chain integrity also help improve quality? (23:50)

How Fairstone was introduced to communicate the value of ethical stone to the customer (25:14)

How Marshalls built environmental and social concerns into its future-facing products (28:52)

Developing for customer needs that they don’t necessarily see yet (34:12)

The unusual position of being both head of marketing and sustainability (36:42)

How is the broader base of business changing in the face of sustainability and ethical challenges? (39:51)

Is Chris optimistic about the progress we’re making towards sustainability? (42:24)

There is always space for people to step in and make a difference, rather than waiting for government to do it for you (44:26)

The advice Chris would give to his younger self (46:47)

Who are some impressive change-makers, and why? (47:06)

Mistakes that have given lessons and led to positive outcomes (48:33)

Chris’s favourite book of all time (49:19)

What advice would you give to young would-be change-makers who are just starting out on the journey? (50:14)

Links

Chris on Twitter https://twitter.com/marshalls_chris

Marshalls Sustainability https://www.marshalls.co.uk/sustainability

The Hitch-hiker’s Guide to the Galaxy https://amzn.to/2xPOIpJ

The UN Global Compact UK Network https://www.unglobalcompact.org.uk