Without a doubt, knowing your client’s case up one side and down the other and understanding and applying the law are critical to your chances of prevailing at trial. But if your demeanor and presentation style lack polish, you might be getting in your own way. Special Counsel to the New York City MTA Inspector General and NITA Program Director Shareema Abel joins May the Record Reflect to talk about courtroom composure, interpersonal conduct, oral advocacy, self-expression, and so much more.

Topics

3:05 What is courtroom demeanor?

6:12 Demeanor in challenging situations

8:57 When you know the judge or opposing counsel

12:03 Vocal expression and body language

16:49 Personal style

22:55 Conduct outside the courtroom

26:12 Online proceedings

28:39 Picking yourself up on an off day

32:44 Cross-generational learning at the office

37:45 Neurodivergence

40:16 Feedback on your courtroom demeanor

44:58 Signoff questions

Quote

“Silence is one of the things that, over the years, I really had to get comfortable with in a courtroom because I remember wanting to fill every second of space and I thought silence was deadly. But as you grow in your career, you realize that you can use silence as a tool, and so oftentimes, especially when you forget a point, it’s ok to have a pregnant pause or use silence, and then return to a podium, to your notes, to remember what you’re saying. Or using silence to make a point after you ask a rhetorical question and using silence when you’re going from topic to topic, because my theory is you should never be talking and moving at the same time.” Shareema Abel

Resources Shareema Abel (LinkedIn) NITA Women in Trial (program) Deposition Skills: NYC (program) Building Trial Skills: NYC (program) NITA Women in Trial playlist (Spotify)

NITA Education Director Rhani Lott Choi returns to May the Record Reflect, this time as guest host, to interview trial competition coaches Justin Bernstein and Spencer Pahlke. You may know Justin and Spencer from Unscripted Direct, the trial advocacy podcast for the law school community. Tune in to this blast from your mock trial past to hear about how advocacy skills transfer from law school to law practice to life; the forgotten lessons of mock trial that you should resurrect; and how learning, practicing, and teaching are part of a career-long cycle for the skilled advocate. 

Timestamps & More

Topics

4:44   Unscripted Direct podcast

5:57   Trial advocacy community

9:58   Tough conversations about DEI

13:11 Building a legal podcast

14:48 Intersection of mock trial and trial practice

16:41 Three important lessons from mock trial

19:03 New practice pointers gleaned from podcasting

22:04 Life lessons from mock trial

26:01 Former students as colleagues

28:10 Things unlearned from mock trial

32:12 Why trial skills are important for all lawyers

33:30 Misconceptions about mock trial’s value

36:47 Keeping skills sharp

39:46 Skills transfer

42:58 Signoff question

Quote

“The biggest challenge the jurors have is they weren’t there when these things happened, so helping them feel like they are there, they’re watching things, even if it’s just through the narration of a lawyer, is incredibly powerful and it sort of sears into their memory.” Justin Bernstein

Resources

Justin Bernstein (bio)

Spencer Pahlke (bio)

Unscripted Direct (podcast)

Episode 5 (Adam Shlahet)

Episode 48 (Ben Rubinowitz)

Episode 51 (Rhani Lott Choi)

AvaTax

You may see depositions as your golden opportunity to preserve testimony, elicit admissions, and test theories—but for your witness, depositions are a veritable stewpot of jangled nerves and apprehension. In this episode, Maricopa County Superior Court Judge Christopher Whitten shares what you can do to ensure your witness walks into a deposition feeling at ease with the process and ready to handle even the toughest questions. Judge Whitten reflects on role-playing, using video as a prep tool, broaching difficult topics, responding to objections, and testifying live versus livestream—and that's just for starters.

Topics

2:35   Confident witnesses   

3:53   Is witness prep privileged?

5:30   Procedural comfort

13:54 Objections during testimony

16:06 Substantive prep

22:57 Tough questions and role-playing

24:36 Using video in prep

26:38 Theory and theme testing

29:12 Common pitfalls

32:04 Testimony via Zoom versus face-to-face

38:15 Reluctant witnesses

42:36 Expert witness prep

46:03 Signoff question

Quote

“When you have a problem with the witness, it’s because you didn’t prepare enough.” Hon. Chris Whitten

Resources

Hon. Chris Whitten (bio)

Building Trial Skills: San Diego (course)

The Ins and Outs of Jury Selection (webcast)

En Banc: Judges’ Perspectives on Remote Hearings (webcast)

“Can I Get a Witness?” (video)

How many of us cue up the “sad trombone” every time we think of doing direct examination? Direct is renowned for being a boring slog through facts and faces as we make on our way to the fireworks of cross and closing. Yet, if you’re not using direct to tell a clear, persuasive story, you’re going to lose your case. According to Judge Amy Hanley and Dennericka Brooks, when you approach direct with the same zest as you do cross, you’ll get the best out of your witnesses, avoid rambling or baffling testimony, and tell the tale jurors are keen to hear. 
Topics

3:42   Why don’t people love doing direct?   

6:44   Common mistakes

10:49 Telling the story

12:18 Organizing your direct

14:09 Headnotes

16:29 Exhibits, visuals, and demonstratives

22:36 Witness prep

27:55 Reluctant or difficult witnesses

35:00 Bad facts

40:57 Demeanor

46:00 Redirect

49:55 Signoff question

Quote

“I will say, first and foremost, that you have to be prepared that no matter how well you prepare a witness, they will get on the stand and say something they weren’t supposed to say, something that will throw you off. It’s just going to happen.” Dennericka Brooks

Resources

Hon. Amy Hanley (bio)

Dennericka Brooks (bio)

NITA Women in Trial (course)

The Tense Trio (podcast)

Direct Examination: Being the Guide for Your Jury (webcast)

Harnessing Your Power on Cross-Examination (webcast)

The profession of trial lawyering has a steep, intense learning curve requiring years of practice (and “practice”) before you begin to feel like you’ve got a grip on it. What if you could shave years off that timeline. NITA’s Education Director Rhani Lott Choi rejoins the podcast to talk about how trial lawyers can compress time through wormholes, slipstreams, and mentorship. 

Topics
5:00   Time compression through wormholes
22:30 And slipstreams
29:34 And mentorship
34:22 A word about Parkinson’s Law
42:28 Signoff Question

Quote
“I’ve worked at places where you have formal mentorship, which can be great, but often that does not continue past the employment relationship. And especially these days people change jobs all the time. The mentorship, for me, at NITA has been so valuable because it transcends that. It’s not based on a job or a connection ... NITA just encompasses everything, through career changes, through types of practice . . . .” Rhani Lott Choi

Resources
Rhani Lott Choi (bio)
Slipstream Time Hacking: How to Cheat Time, Live More and Enhance Happiness (book)
Tomato Clock (Chrome extension)
Direct Examinnation: Being the Guide for Your Jury (webcast)

Being a trial lawyer is a challenging job even apart from the actual, technical work of lawyering in the courtroom. Legal advocacy often places emotional burdens upon trial attorneys that can be a lot to manage. Henry Su joins the podcast to dissect the various stressors associated with trial work and offers his insights into managing stress through mindfulness.

Topics

3:27   Occupational hazards of being a trial lawyer 

10:09 Toll of adversarial work

14:11 Basic obligations to the client

16:13 Managing when conflicted

19:33 Role of fear

26:07 Mindfulness training

30:45 Learning from critiques

32:49 Developing distress hardiness

37:15 “Goblin mode”

39:27 Managing electronic intrusions

42:13 Resources on wellness

Quote

“You want to create distance. What you also want to do is to avoid is dissonance. Dissonance is when you allow the work that you’re doing to kind of infect you, such that you have internal conflict. You’re torn up about it. You’re torn up about why you’re doing this, and that this is not ‘you’ and that these aren’t the values that you hold dear. You want to avoid dissonance, you want to maintain distance.” Henry Su

Resources

Henry Su (bio)

Stress Hardiness and Lawyers (article)

Integrating Mindfulness Theory into Trial Advocacy (article)

Institute for Well-Being in Law (website)

The Anxious Lawyer (book)

Motion Skills: Online (April, August)

Deposition Skills: Online (November)

Theatre wunderkinds and storytelling specialists Kevin Newbury and Kate Douglas join the podcast to tell stories about telling stories. Kevin and Kate discuss how universal themes, conflicts, and archetypes can be used as formulas for brainstorming; suggest some practices you should borrow from writing for the stage; and reveal which pandemic-era guilty pleasure can actually make you a more engaging storyteller.

Topics
4:27    Translating events into a story  
6:11    Why good storytelling is essential to your trial
8:25    Unleashing your creative beast
10:49  Summing up with loglines and taglines 
12:57  Classic conflicts for framing your client’s case 
14:36  Evoking an atmosphere to begin telling a story
16:50  Universal story themes 
20:26  Nourishing your creativity
23:07  Importance of your elevator pitch
24:14  Dramaturgy in trial 
27:59  How a trial is like a tv show
30:10  Defending the unsavory client
33:15  New Orleans Trial program
40:17  Signoff question

 Quote
“When we come [to NITA programs], it’s always so much fun to sit around the table with these incredible lawyers and judges and hear all of their stories. I love to ask all of them, ‘What’s the wildest, strangest case that you’ve had this year?’ and [with] every single one of them it’s like, ‘Well, that’s a good idea for a tv show,’ ‘Well, that should be a movie,’ and I find that a lot of lawyers and judges are good storytellers when they’re recounting the adventures of something they just went through.” Kevin Newbury

Resources
Kevin Newbury (bio)
Kate Douglas (bio)
Deposition Skills & Trial Skills: New Orleans (NITA course)
Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind (book)
The Seven Basic Plots: Why We Tell Stories (book)
Adam Gopnik in The New Yorker (article)
The Secrets of Persuasive Legal Storytelling, with David Mann (podcast)
Give ‘em the Ol’ Razzle Dazzle, with Dominic Gianna (podcast)

If you’re looking for some resolutions for improving as a trial lawyer, let veteran prosecutor Steve Wood be your guide. In this episode (originally aired in 2021), Steve shares the top ten trial tips that always brought him luck. Any one of these would make for an ideal goal to shoot for in 2023. Steve also talks about public service and his lengthy career in law. 

2:58   Tip #1
5:35   Why law?
7:33   Tip #2
10:46 Recollections of his first trial
13:23 Tip #3
18:23 Favorite part of trial
25:19 Tip #4
27:30 Nerves and anxiety about trial
28:49 Tip #5
33:04 Unwinding after trial
34:31 Tip #6
38:49 Most agonizing career decision
41:04 Public service careers
45:50 Tip #7
48:50 A high-profile case I wish I’d tried
50:11 Tip #8
52:43 Tip #9
54:18 Retirement
54:48 Tip #10
56:41 Signature signoff question

Quote
“Somebody I taught with [at NITA] once said something I thought was brilliant, and it’s this: ‘Time is the measure of importance in the courtroom, whether you want it to be or not.’ And what that means is, we indicate importance by how much time we spend on something.”

Recommended Resources
Steven P. Wood (bio)
NITA On-Demand (free resource)
America’s Constitution: A Biography (book)
So Many Ways to Lose (book)
Geddy Lee’s Big Beautiful Book of Bass (book)

Something that concerns trial lawyers more than ever is seating a juror with intractable explicit biases or who believes in conspiracy theories. King County Senior Deputy Prosecuting Attorney Raam Wong experienced this situation when he prosecuted a high-profile, near-fatal shooting of an antifascist protester during a demonstration in Seattle in 2017. Raam joins the podcast to talk about voir dire and deselection tactics, experts and evidence, and checking your own biases at the courtroom door.  

Topics
5:25     Political violence and Hokoana case
9:57     Factors that contributed to mistrial
14:38  Juror “tells” during voir dire
16:50  Conspiracy theories about a witness
20:17  Digging into social media
20:30  Questions for deselecting jurors
24:36  Willful disregard of evidence, civil versus criminal cases
27:30  Addressing juror attitudes
32:50  Remedying attention span issues
37:50  Believing in or rejecting expert opinion
40:50  Concerns about physical safety at trial 
45:01  Signoff question

Quote
“As trial lawyers, we really have to grapple with [. . .] stereotypes every day in court—the assumptions we have about people and the assumptions that the jury might hold. And at times it can be really effective, as advocates, if our good facts kind of match up, or reinforce, the jury’s preexisting beliefs. But at the same time, as a prosecutor, I’m trying to do justice, and doing justice, in my mind, means ensuring that our courtrooms are open to everyone, and that means not making assumptions about people based on demographics or other characteristics.” Raam Wong

 Resources
Raam Wong (bio)
State v. Hodgman (case file)
Alt-Right Event in Seattle Devolves into Chaos and Violence, Outside, Truth-Twisting Inside (SPLC Hatewatch)
Righteous or reckless? Trial under way for couple accused in UW shooting during Milo Yiannopoulos speech (Seattle Times)

This month’s episode features advice and observations from some of NITA’s top judges, who serve as faculty, presenters, and board members. They share their reflections on what they’ve seen from their unique vantage point on the bench and dispense helpful tips for the next time you’re in court.
Topics
2:13     What counsel should know before setting foot in my courtroom
10:30  Most common mistake I see lawyers make in my courtroom
17:55  Impressive or memorable things a lawyer has done during trial
 22:50  Nuttiest things I’ve seen during jury selection

Resources
50 Tips for 50 Years, Part 1 and 50 Tips for 50 Years, Part 2
Judge Mark Drummond (podcast) (webcast) (webcast)
Justice Lee Edmon (bio)
Judge Marian Gaston (bio) (webcast)
Judge Nancy Gertner (bio) (podcast) (webcast)
Judge Amy Hanley (bio) (podcast) (podcast) (webcast) (webcast) (webcast)
Judge Ruth Rocker McMillan (bio) (podcast)
Judge Sam Sheldon (bio) (webcast)
Judge Mindy Solomon (bio) (webcast)
Judge Christopher Whitten (bio) (webcast) (webcast)