In this episode of Fighting Matters, Steve Kwan (BJJ Mental Models) and Jesse Walker (Rough Hands BJJ) welcome special guest Dr. Derek Jones. Derek is a BJJ black belt, innovation educator, and retired philosophy professor whose work bridges martial arts, culture, and political thought. Together, the team explores how memes evolved from internet jokes into one of the most powerful tools of propaganda in modern politics.

From Richard Dawkins’ Selfish Gene to AI-driven meme floods, from the shifting Overton Window to the weaponization of humor, this conversation digs into how memes shape culture, spread extremism, and even destabilize democracy. Along the way, we discuss comedy as cover, the dangers of nihilism, and whether memes can still be reclaimed for good.

The takeaway: memes aren’t harmless entertainment; they’re a frontline in the battle over culture, politics, and truth itself.

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👥 Featuring:

Derek Jones — BJJ black belt, social innovator, philosopher
Steve Kwan — @BJJMentalModels
Jesse Walker — Rough Hands BJJ

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🧠 Topics We Cover:

• What memes really are: from Dawkins to digital culture
• How memes spread faster than truth, and why they stick
• The Overton Window and cultural manipulation
• Comedy, plausible deniability, and “just joking” politics
• AI meme factories and the flood of propaganda
• The Joker, fascism, and the politics of nihilism
• Can memes be used for good?

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📖 Chapters:

00:00 Introduction to Fighting Matters
01:01 Meet Derek Jones: Black Belt & Philosopher
03:15 What Is a Meme, Really?
07:13 How Memes Shape Personality and Culture
09:53 Why Anyone Can Now Create Viral Propaganda
14:10 AI and the Future of Meme Warfare
20:14 Memes, Overton Windows, and Shifting Norms
23:55 The Plausible Deniability of Sharing Memes
28:23 Comedy as Cover: From Pepe to Rogan
33:43 The Joker, Fascism, and Mocking the System
37:51 Memes as News and the COVID Meme Boom
41:36 Is Society Getting Dumber, or Just Faster?
46:49 Offloading Memory to AI: Help or Harm?
53:37 Wall-E vs. Terminator: The Real AI Dystopia
55:49 Human Responsibility in an Automated World
59:09 Can Memes Still Be Used for Good?
01:02:26 Levity, Connection, and Fighting Back with Humor
01:03:08 Closing Thoughts