Michael Shellenberger is the founder of Environmental Progress and the author of the best-selling book Apocalypse Never: How Environmental Alarmism Hurts Us All. In his second appearance on the podcast, Shellenberger talks with Robert about the remarkable success of Apocalypse Never, his next book, San Fransicko: Why Progressives Ruin Cities, which will be out in October, sobriety, his return to his Christian faith, environmentalism as religion, “Chinese genocide solar panels,” and why the decline of our cities reflects the decline of our civilization.