Michael Shellenberger is a former gubernatorial candidate in California and the author, most recently, ofSanFransicko: Why Progressives Ruin Cities. In his third appearance on the podcast, (previous appearances were on July 6, 2020, and May 27, 2021) Michael talks about the California legislature’s vote to save Diablo Canyon, nuclear’s new-found traction,  his run for governor, why he might run for office again, Greta Thunberg, and the “narcissistic nihilism” of climate catastrophists.