Katelyn Beaty believes that some Christian leaders use their fame and influence in positive ways. But too often, she says, fame and celebrity are cultivated for their own sake, or for the sake of profits and the building of personal empires. We see this phenomenon most conspicuously with the prosperity Gospel preachers. But, increasingly, these practices of the Prosperity Gospel have crept into mainstream evangelical ministries.

That’s why Katelyn Beaty believes we should explore the evangelical church’s relationship to celebrity. She explores how fame has reshaped the American church, explains why and how celebrity is woven into the fabric of the evangelical movement, and identifies how fame has misshapen the church.

Katelyn Beaty is an editor at Baker Books, and has written for The New York Times, The New Yorker, The Washington Post, and The Atlantic. She previously served as print managing editor at Christianity Today.  Her new book is Celebrities For Jesus:  How Personas, Platforms, and Profits are Hurting The Church.

On today’s program, an investigation into the death of a South Carolina pastor’s wife, 30-year-old Mica Miller, has captured the attention of people across the nation, raising questions about mental health and abuse. We’ll look at the latest findings.

A Pennsylvania pastor faces a gunman in the middle of his Sunday sermon. We’ll have details.

A new Southern Baptist report details where member churches stand with attendance, baptisms, and sexual abuse reforms. We’ll take a look.

But first, a lawsuit against Christian author and radio host Eric Metaxas is moving forward despite concerns about free speech. 

I wanted to remind everyone that it’s a new month, May, and we have a new book we’d like to share with our donors. Katelyn Beaty’s book “Celebrities For Jesus” is a fantastic book about the trend in evangelicalism toward the idolization of celebrity pastors and leaders. It has a lot of insight about many of the issues we cover regularly here at MinistryWatch, and I think if you like MinistryWatch, you are going to find this book valuable. We’ll send it to you absolutely free, as our thank you, for a gift of any size to MinistryWatch this month. Just go to MinistryWatch.com and hit the donate button at the top of the page.

Until next time, may God bless you.

For centuries, Christianity has been seen as a positive force in the world – even by those who are not Christians. But my guest today, Aaron Renn, argues that this perception has changed. In a widely read and discussed article for “First Things” magazine, first published a decade ago, Renn said that the world up until 1964 was a “positive world” for Christianity. From 1964 to 2014, we lived in what he calls the “Neutral World.” Since 2014, we live in a “Negative World” for Christianity.

Renn expands on these ideas in his latest book, Life in the Negative World: Confronting Challenges in an Anti-Christian Culture. Aaron Renn is a senior fellow at American Reformer, a former senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute, and a former partner at Accenture, the global consulting firm.

His latest book is Life in the Negative World: Confronting Challenges in an Anti-Christian Culture.

A quick note that it’s a new month – May – and we have a new book we’d like to share with you. Katelyn Beaty’s Celebrities for Jesus is a book that is right in the center of the bullseye for MinistryWatch readers. It discusses how and why the evangelical church has turned to celebrities, celebrity pastors and ministry leaders, and how that trend is hurting the church. We will send you that book as our thank you for a gift of any size during the month of May. To give to MinistryWatch, just go to MinistryWatch.com and hit the donate button at the top of the page.

The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database, technical, editorial, and other support from Casey Sudduth, Stephen duBarry, Christina Darnell, and Kim Roberts.

I hope you’ll join me and Natasha Cowden for our roundup of the stories we’ve been working on this week here at MinistryWatch.

Until then, may God bless you.

On today’s program, the top legislative body of the United Methodist Church gathered in Charlotte, N.C., this week for its long-awaited General Conference. There, delegates cast decisive votes on issues of gender and sexuality.  We’ll have details.

And, an Ohio church is under fire AGAIN for opening its doors to shelter the homeless. We’ll take a look.

Also, Wayne Grudem, bestselling author of ‘Systematic Theology,’ is stepping away from academia after teaching for almost 50 years. That story later in the program.

But first, evangelical activists gathered followers together at Columbia University last week to show support for Israel.

 I wanted to remind everyone that it’s a new month, May, and we have a new book we’d like to share with our donors. Katelyn Beaty’s book “Celebrities For Jesus” is a fantastic book about the trend in evangelicalism toward the idolization of celebrity pastors and leaders. It has a lot of insight about many of the issues we cover regularly here at MinistryWatch, and I think if you like MinistryWatch, you are going to find this book valuable. We’ll send it to you absolutely free, as our thank you, for a gift of any size to MinistryWatch this month. Just go to MinistryWatch.com and hit the donate button at the top of the page.

The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh.  We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Fiona André, Yonat Shimron, Daniel Ritchie, Kim Roberts, Bethany Starin, Tony Mator, Jessica Eturralde, Brittany Smith, and Christina Darnell.

Until next time, may God bless you.

Nancy French was not a household name in American politics -- because she mostly operated behind the scenes. But she was well known in the highest levels of Republican circles. She was the ghost writer for politicians and conservative celebrities, with five books she wrote making it to the New York Times Bestseller List.

But she found the Republican Party to be going down a path she could not travel, and eventually her political clients abandoned her. She continued to write, however, and she did some major investigate work on the sexual and spiritual abuse at Kanakuk, America’s largest Christian camp.

She has a new book now under her own name. It’s called Ghosted: An American Story. It’s a fascinating look at her early life of poverty and the long road to success – and some of the challenges she has had along the way.

FINAL WORDS:

That brings to a close my conversation with Nancy French. Her new book is Ghosted: An American Story. MinistryWatch did its own investigation of Kanakuk, and you can find our stories by going to MinistryWatch.com and hitting the “Investigations” tab at the top of the page.

Just a quick note for regular listeners: We had one of our best weeks ever on the podcast, with nearly 4,000 podcast downloads in a single week, and nearly 15,000 for the month of April. If you are a regular listener, thanks for your support. If you have never rated us or left a comment on your podcast app, I’d like to encourage you to do so. Your ratings are an encouragement to me personally, and they make difference to the algorithms that help others discover us. It’s a small, non-financial way you can be a big help to the podcast. Thanks.

The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database and editorial support from Stephen duBarry, Christina Darnell, Kim Roberts, and Rod Pitzer.

Until next time, may God bless you.

On today’s program, Arkansas pastor Steven Smith steps down after fallout from mishandling abuse allegations against a former children’s minister. We’ll have details.

Also, controversial megachurch pastors Mark Driscoll and John Lindell seemed to reconcile on stage at the Stronger Men’s Conference last week…but since then, tensions between the two leaders have only intensified. We’ll take a look.

And, how a small U-S evangelical seminary is defying the odds. While many theological schools are shrinking, this one’s enrollment numbers keep growing.

But we begin today with news of two resignations from leaders of Orange, a ministry known for hosting one of the world’s most prominent family ministry conferences which is actually being held this week in Atlanta. Orange released an official statement stating that its founder and current chief creative officer Reggie Joiner has resigned along with CEO Kristen Ivy.

I was in Lexington, Kentucky, last week, for the Evangelical Press Association annual meeting, and I’m pleased to report that my weekly column, “Editor’s Notebook,” brought home a third place prize in their annual Awards of Excellence contest. I also had the privilege of presenting a Lifetime Achievement Award – posthumously – to Joel Belz, the founder of WORLD Magazine and a friend and mentor to me.

I also want to remind everyone that this is the last week to get an important new book that we are offering to everyone who donates to MinistryWatch in April. It’s called “How I Lost $1,500,000 in Missions” by John Addink. If you are a donor to foreign missions projects, a ministry leader of a missions organization, or perhaps a pastor who supports missionaries, you should read this book. We’ll send it to you absolutely free, as our thank you, for a gift of any size to MinistryWatch this month. Just go to MinistryWatch.com and hit the donate button at the top of the page.

The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh.  We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Daniel Ritchie, Jessica Eturralde, Clayton Sidenbender, Shannon Cuthrell, Brittany Smith, and Christina Darnell.

A special thank you to Religion UnPlugged for contributing material for this week’s podcast.

Until next time, may God bless you.

On today’s EXTRA Episode, MinistryWatch President Warren Smith has some additional thoughts about the Mark Driscoll-John Lindell controversy.

The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. Thanks to Casey Sudduth, Stephen duBarry, Kim Roberts, Rod Pitzer, and Christina Darnell for additional support.

Until next time, may God bless you.

FIRST SEGMENT

Warren

Hello everybody.  I’m Warren Smith, coming to you from Charlotte, North Carolina.

Natasha 

I’m Natasha Cowden in Denver, Colorado. We’d like to welcome you to the MinistryWatch podcast.

Warren

On today’s program, General Episcopal Theological Seminary thought it had found a solution to its financial woes—until 7 bishops intervened, saying they didn’t want to be in partnership with a conservative. We’ll have details.

Also, controversial pastor Mark Driscoll got booted off the stage at last weekend’s Stronger Men’s Conference after calling out the conference host for his choice of entertainment opening night.

And, Chuck Swindoll steps down as senior pastor of his church—but insists he’s not retiring. He’ll continue to preach the majority of the sermons. We’ll take a look.

Natasha

But first, Calvin University finds itself at the center of a lawsuit with its former president.

Warren

When Calvin University hired Wiebe Boer as its new president in May 2022, the school signed the former business executive to a lucrative five-year deal.

The hope was that Boer, a Calvin alum and son of missionaries, could turn the prominent evangelical school around after years of budget cuts and enrollment decline while easing tensions with the denomination that owns the school.

Natasha:

What happened?

Warren:

For a while, it seemed things were working. Enrollment went up, and in January, Boer announced an ambitious plan for Calvin’s future. Less than two months later, however, everything fell apart.

In mid-February, Boer resigned after the school’s board received complaints that he’d sent “unwelcome and inappropriate” messages to the employee of a vendor who worked on campus. When confronted by the board, Boer agreed to step down — leaving the campus in turmoil, with anger and confusion over how things went so wrong so fast.

Natasha

That anger has led to Boer being locked out of the school’s presidential residence and a lawsuit

Warren:

On Friday (April 12), Boer and his wife, Joanna, filed suit against the school in federal court, alleging that Calvin violated his employment agreement and defamed him — and that the school failed to pay him $400,000 in severance or to prove that he’d engaged in significant misconduct.

Under the terms of his employee agreement, Boer was considered an at-will employee and could leave the school or be fired at any time. However, unless the board ruled that Boer was guilty of “serious misconduct,” he would receive his $400,000 salary for a year after leaving.

Natasha:

Remind us what Boer is accused of?

Warren:

In the complaint, Boer’s attorney stated that he exchanged texts with an employee of a college vendor for several weeks in January but denied the texts were inappropriate. They also claim he was given little time to defend himself and agreed to resign rather than be fired — if he could get severance and help shape the messaging around his resignation.

Neither happened, according to the complaint. Instead, negotiations broke down, and Boer and his family were locked out of the presidential home — even though his kids were still in school in the Grand Rapids area.

The complaint asks for lost wages and bonuses, compensatory damages for mental anguish and emotional distress as well as punitive damages.

Natasha:

Next up – an Episcopal Seminary nearly found a solution to its financial woes but there’s a catch.

Warren:

General Episcopal Seminary in New York could be saved, but it would require the school to accept help from a conservative donor. Seven progressive bishops in the church are calling the donor’s beliefs a deal-breaker.

The deal would offer a long-term lease of the seminary to a nonprofit group, the School of Sacred Music. But a major donor to the school is a conservative Catholic donor who holds the Catholic Church’s historic positions on gender and sexuality.

Earlier this year, local bishops — who have no direct authority over the school — and local government officials learned that the School of Sacred Music hoped to sign a long-term lease.

The bishops, who lead Episcopal dioceses in New York and Long Island, issued a statement that said, “We are concerned by the lack of full acceptance of the LGBTQ stance of its founders and the lack of transparency in its funding,”

Natasha:

Tell us more about why they don’t want to lease the school

Warren:

The seven bishops who oppose the lease said they understand that the seminary is facing financial challenges but said that issues of inclusion are more important.

Natasha

But conservative church watchers say the seven bishops are more concerned about making an ideological point than doing good for the church and the community.

Warren:

Jeff Walton is the Anglican Director for the Institute for Religion and Democracy. He told MinistryWatch, “This lease arrangement with General Seminary would seem to be a win/win for tenants and the landlords who can continue to see their property appreciate in value. [The] bishops’ objections to the arrangement are further evidence that Episcopal Church progressives are their own worst enemy.

Natasha:

Our next story involves murder accusations against 4 Members of Religious Anti-Government Group ‘God's Misfits’.

Warren:

On April 16, the Office of the Oklahoma Chief Medical Examiner confirmed that the two deceased victims they recovered in a rural Texas field were 27-year-old Veronica Butler and 39-year-old Jilian Kelley.

An affidavit from the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation (OSBI) says Kelley and Butler went missing on March 30 while on their way to Eva, Oklahoma to pick up Butler’s two children. Police later discovered Butler's abandoned car in rural Texas County, Oklahoma with signs of violent struggle in and near the car.

Kelley was the wife of Pastor Heath Kelley of Hugoton First Christian Church in Hugoton, Kansas, and the mother of four.

Natasha:

Do we know who killed them?

Warren:

On April 13, police arrested Tifany Machel Adams, along with Adams' romantic partner, Tad Cullum, and friends Cole and Cora Twombly. The group was all charged with two counts of first-degree murder, two counts of kidnapping, and one count of conspiracy to commit murder in the first degree.

Investigators say the two women were victims of a conspiracy to murder them over a custody battle involving Butler's two children.

Natasha:

How were the suspects linked together?

Warren:

According to the Associated Press, all four were part of an anti-government group called "God's Misfits," The religious group is said to have regularly met at the home of Cole and Cora Twombly. OSBI officers spoke to Cora Twombly's teen daughter, who said she overheard the four suspects plotting to murder Butler and Kelley. Twombly's daughter described God's Misfits as an "anti-government group that has a religious affiliation".

Natasha

Warren, let’s take a quick break. When we return, megachurch pastors John Lindell and Mark Driscoll get into a public altercation at last weekend’s Stronger Men’s Conference.

I’m Natasha Cowden, along with my co-host Warren Smith, and we’ll have that story and much more, after this short break.

BREAK

SECOND SEGMENT

Natasha

Welcome back.  I’m Natasha Cowden, along with my co-host Warren Smith, and you’re listening to the MinistryWatch podcast.

Our next story, Megachurch Pastor Mark Driscoll gets booted off the stage of the Stronger Men’s Conference after publicly criticizing the entertainment opening night.

Warren:

Pastor John Lindell’s James River Assembly of God church in Springfield, Missouri hosted the Stronger Men’s conference which was founded to “empower men to rise up, bold and courageous, standing strong and determined to live out God’s purpose for their lives.”

This, however, is not your dad’s Promise Keeper rally. The annual gathering features plenty of biblical exhortation, but the opening night’s light-hearted entertainment has been a smorgasbord of bull riding, motocross/BMX racing, boxing, tanks crushing cars and, last Friday, a man rips off his shirt, swallows a sword and swings on a pole.

Natasha:

 

That is a little different…

Warren:

 

When featured speaker Mark Driscoll took to the stage Saturday, he wasted no time speaking out against that last act. It turns out, he wasn’t alone in feeling unsettled by Alex Magala’s performance and left many wondering what place such a display had in a Christian men’s conference.

 

Natasha:

 

Conference did not stream the event but the scene with Mark went viral on social media due to videos taken on people’s phones.

 

Warren:

 

Driscoll said he spent many late hours grieving over Magala’s performance and praying for the attendees’ mental and spiritual protection from what he called a “spirit of Jezebel” that kicked off the weekend.

 

That prompted conference host Lindell to shout from the floor,. “Mark you’re out of line! You’re done.”

 

Driscoll responded, “Pastor John, I’ll receive that” and exited the stage.

 

Lindell walked on the platform to a mixture of shouts and boos, denouncing Driscoll for failing to notify him directly and privately of his grievance, referencing Jesus’ teaching on conflict resolution in Matthew 18.

Natasha:

 

What happened next?

 

Warren:

 

After a 30-minute break to talk privately, the two men resumed the stage together, with Lindell affirming his affection for Driscoll and Driscoll apologizing.

 

By the way, I’ve had a lot of people ask me what I think about this situation, so I’ve decided to devote this week’s Editor’s Notebook to this situation. So you can read more by going to the MinistryWatch website and looking for that column, which will be on the front page on Friday morning.

 

Natasha:

 

Warren,...

Ten years ago, Eric Metaxas was the belle of the evangelical ball. Indeed, his evangelical bona fides were nearly impeccable. Early in his career he wrote for Veggie Tales and worked for Chuck Colson. He wrote humorously but piercingly about Christian apologetics. His biography of Bonhoeffer was named the book of the year by the Evangelical Christian Publishers Association. It sold more than a million copies and has been translated into 20 languages.

His keynote address to the National Prayer Breakfast in 2012 became a viral sensation. With great wit and rhetorical flourish, and with President Barack Obama sitting just a few feet away, he gave a passionate defense of the unborn. Eric Metaxas was becoming what many evangelicals claimed the movement needed: An intellectual Christian, someone who took the Bible and doctrine seriously, but who was also taken seriously in the secular public square.

Then, Donald Trump happened. After being initially skeptical of Trump, Eric Metaxas became a full-throated advocate on his then new Salem radio program, which was syndicated nationwide. He wrote two children’s books about Donald Trump. And, in an infamous incident caught on video, he punched an anti-Trump protester at a rally at the White House in August of 2020. Metaxas has gone on to use his radio program as a platform to have guests who promoted the notion that the 2020 presidential election was stolen and that the COVID vaccine is dangerous. His advocacy has also gotten him in legal trouble. Just last week a judge ruled that a defamation lawsuit against Metaxas and others can go forward.

All of this has caused a lot of Eric’s former friends and admirers to ask: “What happened to Eric Metaxas”? It’s a question Eric addresses in this conversation, a conversation that starts out talking about his 2022 book Letter To The American Church, which has recently been adapted to film and is showing, mostly in churches, around the country.

Thanks for listening in on my conversation with Eric Metaxas. His latest book is Letter to the American Church.

The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database, technical, editorial, and other support from Casey Sudduth, Stephen duBarry, Christina Darnell, and Kim Roberts.

I hope you’ll join me and Natasha Cowden for our roundup of the stories we’ve been working on this week here at MinistryWatch.

Until then, may God bless you.

SHOW NOTES:

On today’s program, a proposed State Department rule could impact employment regulations for nonprofits…and some ministry leaders are voicing concern. We’ll take a look.

And, the North Carolina pastor who went viral for remarks he made from the pulpit about rape has apologized—but the controversy, which has sparked ongoing protests, caught the attention of lawmakers and inflamed the state’s debate over school vouchers. We’ll have details.

Also, Salem Media—one of the only Christian publicly traded companies—has reported a $46 million operating loss in its latest annual report. That story later in the program.

But first two Christian Colleges face legal challenges due to their names.

I was in Indianapolis this week meeting with donors and others there. If you came out to some of my meetings, thanks for hanging out with me. Special thanks to Bill Warren with FAME, a medical missions organization based in Indianapolis for showing me some Hoosier hospitality.

I also want to remind everyone that we’re offering an important new book this month to everyone who donates to MinistryWatch. It’s called “How I Lost $1,500,000 in Missions” by John Addink. If you are a donor to foreign missions projects, a ministry leader of a missions organization, or perhaps a pastor who supports missionaries, you should read this book. We’ll send it to you absolutely free, as our thank you, for a gift of any size to MinistryWatch this month. Just go to MinistryWatch.com and hit the donate button at the top of the page.

The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh.  We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Cheryl Mann Bacon, Kim Roberts, Tony Mator, Aaron Earls, Christopher Mann, Shannon Cuthrell, Richard Levey, Brittany Smith, and Christina Darnell.

A special thanks to The Christian Chronicle, Lifeway Research, and The NonProfit Times for contributing material for this week’s podcast.

Until next time, may God bless you.

COMPLETE TRANSCRIPT:

FIRST SEGMENT

Warren

Hello everybody.  I’m Warren Smith, coming to you from Charlotte, North Carolina.

Natasha 

I’m Natasha Cowden in Denver, Colorado. We’d like to welcome you to the MinistryWatch podcast.

Warren

On today’s program, a proposed State Department rule could impact employment regulations for nonprofits…and some ministry leaders are voicing concern. We’ll take a look.

And, the North Carolina pastor who went viral for remarks he made from the pulpit about rape has apologized—but the controversy, which has sparked ongoing protests, caught the attention of lawmakers and inflamed the state’s debate over school vouchers. We’ll have details.

Also, Salem Media—one of the only Christian publicly traded companies—has reported a $46 million operating loss in its latest annual report. That story later in the program.

Natasha

But first two Christian Colleges face legal challenges due to their names.

Warren:

 Lubbock Christian University in Texas and newly renamed Rochester Christian University in Michigan —Both schools are associated with Churches of Christ.

Lubbock Christian University found itself in court defending the use of its LCU moniker against Louisiana Christian University, which adopted that name only two and a half years ago after more than a century as Louisiana College.

 Natasha:

 So what’s happening between the schools?

Warren:

A January 2023 letter to the Louisiana school stated, “Lubbock Christian University will again request an amicable discussion between our institution[s] on this matter. But we are prepared to defend our right to our trademark if necessary.”

As of January, the case had been transferred to a new judge and assigned to a magistrate for a report and recommendation.

 

While the parties await a ruling, both universities continue to use their LCU logos.

 

Natasha:

 

And what about the University of Rochester and Rochester University?

 

Warren:

 

Although the trademark issues in the two cases are similar, the roles are reversed.

 

University of Rochester, a 173-year-old, research-based university. Rochester Christian University is a much smaller and newer school.

 

The URLs for the two universities’ websites were mentioned repeatedly as particularly problematic, differing by only one character and leading to misdirection from search engines.

 

Warren:

 

Shortly after it was filed, the case was automatically referred for mediation. Subsequently, Rochester University announced in its Feb. 21 chapel assembly the plan to change its name to Rochester Christian University but declined to discuss the change outside that in-house announcement prior to a news release on March 8.

 

Natasha:

 

Our next story involves new rules that could limit work of Christian Humanitarian Groups.

 

Warren:

 

Several Christian ministries are raising concerns about a proposed addition to Department of State regulations that would limit the employment decisions of those accepting foreign assistance.

 

The Accord Network, Samaritan’s Purse, Christian Legal Society, and the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission (ERLC) of the Southern Baptist Convention, along with others, filed an official comment about the proposed changes.

 

The proposal “expressly states that recipients and subrecipients receiving Department-funded foreign assistance funds must not discriminate on specified bases against end users of supplies or services (also referred to in this rule as beneficiaries and potential beneficiaries) or in certain employment decisions.”

Natasha:

 

These ministries agree that they should not discriminate against beneficiaries, but have serious “concerns” about the rules governing employment decisions.

 

Warren:

Many of these faith-based humanitarian ministries make employment decisions that are guided by religious beliefs to which they adhere.

 

According to the ERLC, the rules would “not allow [faith-based organizations] to consider sexual orientation and gender identity or expression in the hiring process in order to remain eligible for foreign aid funding. Hiring staff members that reflect the religious beliefs of an organization is a long-standing pillar of religious liberty protections.”

Natasha:

 

Can you give an example of how this could impact humanitarian aid?

 

Warren:

Samaritan’s Purse president Franklin Graham said, “These proposed State Department regulations could be used to force faith-based organizations like Samaritan’s Purse to hire staff who disagree with our core biblical beliefs about God’s design for marriage, sexuality, and gender in order to be eligible for government grants.”

 

Only about 6% of Samaritan’s Purse funding comes from government grants and even less from the State Department, Graham said.

 

“But with those grants, we are able to assist tens of thousands of people around the world. We do all of this without placing any conditions or requirements on the aid. We help those who are in need, regardless of their sexual orientation, gender, race, religion, or anything else,”

 

Natasha:

 

The group of faith-based ministries are requesting some changes to the proposed rules – can you fill us in on what they are?

Warren:

 

First, the groups ask the regulations to state clearly that the State Department recognizes that laws such as the First Amendment, Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, and the Religious Freedom Restoration Act protect the rights of faith-based groups from the proposed employment nondiscrimination rules.

Second, rather than have a waiver process, the groups ask that a “categorical exemption” of religious organizations be adopted.

 

Natasha

Lets move to our next story – what can you tell us

 

Warren:

 

When an X social media account, Bad Preacher Clips, shared six-month-old video footage of Rev. Bobby Leonard, pastor of Bible Baptist Tabernacle in North Carolina seemingly excusing the rape of women who wear shorts created quite the stir in the community.

 

The video shows him saying “If you dress like that and you get raped and I’m on the jury, he’s gonna go free,” Leonard said in a sermon filmed on Aug. 15. “You don’t like that, do you? I’m right, though. Because a man’s a man.”

 

After his comments went viral, the pastor quickly changed his tune and apologized for his “foolish and sinful” words.

 

Nevertheless, the video sparked ongoing protests outside the self-described “independent, fundamental, baptist” church by local community members.

 

Natasha:

 

But beyond protests, this video got state attention too.

Warren:

 

North Carolina Democrat Gov. Roy Cooper, seized upon the outrage to fuel his war against the state’s popular Opportunity Scholarship private school voucher program. Because Leonard’s church runs a school that has received more than $3.3 million in vouchers over the last five years.

The viral video and the controversy has become big news in North Carolina because Republican lawmakers are trying to extend the voucher program.

 

Natasha

 

Warren, let’s take a quick break. When we return, the numbers are in, and the Southern Baptist Convention lost more than 12-hundred congregations in 2022.

 

I’m Natasha Cowden, along with my co-host Warren Smith, and we’ll have that story and much more, after this short break.

 

BREAK

 

SECOND SEGMENT

 

Natasha

 

Welcome back.  I’m Natasha Cowden, along with my co-host Warren Smith, and you’re listening to the MinistryWatch podcast.

 

Our next story, the SBC loses 1,200 congregations

 

Warren:

 

According to Lifeway Research’s analysis of the 2022 Annual Church Profile of the Southern Baptist Convention, 1,...