Mitch Horowitz is an expert esoteric mysticism and the occult who happens to be a Satanist.

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Ben Stiller: [00:00:00] There were times, when I was doing Jack that I actually felt retarded, like really retarded. I mean, I brushed my teeth retarded. I rode buss retarded

Robert Downey Jr.: [00:00:10] Damn.

Ben Stiller: [00:00:11] In a weird way, I had to sort of just free myself up to believe that it was okay to be stupid or dumb.

Robert Downey Jr.: [00:00:17] To be a moron.

Ben Stiller: [00:00:18] Yeah!]

Robert Downey Jr.: [00:00:19] To be moronical.

Ben Stiller: [00:00:20] Exactly, to be a moron.

Robert Downey Jr.: [00:00:22] An imbecile.

Ben Stiller: [00:00:22] Yeah!

Robert Downey Jr.: [00:00:23] But simple Jack thought he was smart or rather, didn’t think he was retarded, so you can’t afford to play retarded, being a smart actor. Playing a guy who ain’t smart, but thinks he is, that’s tricky.

Ben Stiller: [00:00:33] Hmm, tricky.

Robert Downey Jr.: [00:00:34] It’s like working with mercury. It’s high science, man! It’s an art form. You an artist.

Ben Stiller: [00:00:40] That’s what we do, right

Robert Downey Jr.: [00:00:41] Yeah

Ben Stiller: [00:00:41] Yeah

Robert Downey Jr.: [00:00:42] Hats off of going there, especially, knowing how the Academy is about that shit.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:00:46] That’s, of course, Ben Stiller and Robert Downey Jr. from Tropic Thunder. And it’s a clip that has become somewhat of a touchstone cultural icon because of the full retard thing, which is part of the clip that we’re going to get to in a minute, but I wanted to start with this long way around the barn clip on the first part, because what he slips in there, Robert Downey Jr. does in a very interesting way is, the reference to the academy that being the Academy Awards, which in our case, serves as a very good stand in for culture and our popular culture, and what we think of it and how we process it. And if this intro is a long way around the barn, which I assure you it is, then you will have to stay with me for its linked to today’s guest, Mitch Horowitz, who is self-described historian of alternative spirituality, and one of today’s most literate voices of esoterica mysticism and the occult, and he also happens to be a Satanist. Now, I’m not hating on him, because he’s a Satanist. As a matter of fact, I like Mitch Horowitz. At least I like him well enough, but I’m not sure I trust Mitch Horowitz. I’m not sure I believe Mitch Horowitz. And I guess my doubts stems from this character that we touched on a couple episodes back named Colonel Michael Aquino, who it turns out is somebody that Mitch identifies as one of his greatest sources of inspiration.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:02:20] In that same article, you’re asked who are some of your greatest inspirations, and you mentioned Satanist Michael Aquino. I mean, Mitch, this guy is one of the worst of the worst Pedophiles…

Mitch Horowitz: [00:02:37] No, that’s not true.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:02:39] But hold on. If you say it’s not true, okay, I get it.

Mitch Horowitz: [00:02:43] It’s not my saying. That’s grotesquely inaccurate. He died recently. He had no involvement with pedophilia whatsoever. I’m surprised to hear you say that.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:02:52] Okay, back to Tropic Thunder.