In this episode, we look at two sides of the Nigerian scam: The emotional, psychological, and financial damage done by scammers and the scammers we often look at as bad people doing bad things. But in some cultures, this is seen as an acceptable career option.

Today's guest is Ronnie Tokazowski. Ronnie has been fighting Nigerian fraud for the last seven years and has collaborated with both law enforcement and the private sector. He runs a mailing list which collaborates with victims in identifying critical pieces of information around how the fraud works as well as working with romance victims themselves.

Show Notes:

• [0:53] - Ronnie shares his role as a Principal Threat Advisor and the work he does with Nigerian fraud.

• [2:10] - Seven years ago, Ronnie saw the increasing trend in Nigerian fraud and is trying to get ahead of it.

• [3:58] - Scammers operate in a way that is similar to pulling tools out of a toolbox. They know which strategies to use in different situations.

• [5:44] - Relationships have been built with victims over months or sometimes even years, especially in romance scams.

• [8:19] - Ronnie explains how emotions are targeted to build relationships with scammers.

• [10:36] - Business email cybercrime was the number one cybercrime for seven years ago.

• [11:41] - The more we talk about it, the more victims come forward to talk about their own experience and overcome the social stigma.

• [12:36] - While not a scam victim, Ronnie explains a scenario in which he questioned his decisions.

• [15:27] - There are people out there doing the work in Nigeria in getting scammers to leave the career. But it is a huge undertaking.

• [17:50] - A common scam is to reach out on social media and try to get the target off the platform to talk.

• [19:18] - Some scammers are victims of human trafficking doing the work against their will.

• [20:36] - Right now with pig butchering, the belief is that the groups are organized crime groups in China.

• [22:01] - Ronnie shares the experience in speaking with law enforcement in Nigeria.

• [23:57] - The connections to different scams are very intricate and sophisticated.

• [26:21] - In one experiment, gift cards were purchased to give to scammers to track what they did with them.

• [29:26] - Scammers collaborate together to find "clients" and share their list of victims to facilitate other crimes.

• [30:50] - Ronnie shares the story of a scammer who collaborated with multiple people and wound up being involved in tons of different types of scams.

• [33:12] - In Nigeria, there are a lot of tribal religions in play.

• [34:31] - Many scammers in Nigeria will go through rituals in their attempt to manifest wealth.

• [37:07] - One of the main motivations for scammers is their experience in poverty.

• [41:02] - What about government intervention? How is the Nigerian government handling the situation?

• [42:21] - In some countries, the government is also tied up in the scamming.

• [45:20] - Two factor authentication is critical to security.

• [46:26] - For businesses, there should be a process to ensure money is wired correctly when necessary.

• [48:10] - Ronnie doesn't recommend investing in crypto right now especially if it sounds too good to be true.

Thanks for joining us on Easy Prey. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast on iTunes and leave a nice review.

Links and Resources:

• Podcast Web Page

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• Ronnie Tokazowski on LinkedIn

• Ronnie Tokazowski on Twitter

• Cofense.com