In this special roundtable edition of the Next Level Agents podcast, host Kevin Kauffman brings together four industry powerhouses – Chelsea Wright, Brittini Bowers, Katie DeWitt, and Erik Kelly – for a candid conversation about what truly separates consistently successful agents from those caught in cycles of mediocrity.

This episode challenges conventional wisdom about real estate success, exposing the uncomfortable truths about why some agents perpetually struggle while others thrive regardless of market conditions. From the counterintuitive education habits of top performers to the relationship crisis plaguing modern agents, this discussion offers both philosophical insights and practical strategies for breaking through to your next level.

Key Points:

Whether you're a new agent seeking the right foundation or an experienced professional looking to break through your current ceiling, this episode provides the uncomfortable truths and actionable insights needed to elevate your business to its next level.

Listen now to join the conversation that's challenging industry norms and creating a new standard for real estate excellence.

Connect with our hosts:

Ready to take your real estate business to the next level? Visit Next Level Agents to learn more about our community of growth-minded professionals.

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In real estate, being a broker is the ultimate dream we’re taught to aspire to, but for most people, it’s a nightmare. If you put the ego and bragging rights aside, you’ll find that most brokers aren’t happy. 

They work 80+ hours a week, get very little time with their families, and at the end of the day, have very little to show for it financially. People often say a restaurant is one of the worst businesses to own, but a real estate brokerage isn’t all that different if you really dig into the numbers. 

What if we could aspire to a business model that gave us freedom, leverage and more money? What if you could do away with the things that make owning a brokerage so difficult? Mitch Riback did just that and created a model that allows owners to keep more income, have less overhead and responsibility over agents and way more freedom. 

You could go from working 80+ hours a week to 30 hours, and sell more homes with less headaches. Ultimately, what most “successful” brokers don’t tell you is how much they hate what they run. By taking a different approach, you can sign up for a business, and not a trap. Today, I’m joined by the Realtor, coach, speaker and author of The Big Lie: Are You On the Real Estate Hamster Wheel? Mitch talks about what drove him to build a different business and how it’s allowed him to pour into what truly matters. 

People think working 80+ hours a week is a badge of honor, it’s a badge of stupidity. -Mitch Ribak 

Guest Info

Mitch Ribak is a Realtor, Broker, Coach, Speaker and author of The Big Lie: Are you on the Real Estate Hamster Wheel? Most Successful Realtors, Team Leaders and Brokers never truly build a business, they build a crappy job. Mitch teaches agents and brokers how to create a business that not only increases their profits, but also creates a life of freedom. To get the book, get https://a.co/d/1T0qWAt or send an email to [email protected]. 

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In an industry that celebrates making rain, GCI, units and volume, it’s really easy to lose sight of why we got into real estate in the first place. Most of us got into this for our families and for freedom to spend time with them. Unfortunately, somewhere along the way, we forget and find ourselves working too much, prioritizing the next meeting,  appointment and commission check. 

It’s only when we have a smack-in-the-face moment that we realize that we’re running our businesses all wrong, and that we have to refocus on the original goal. A lot of what we hear from the stage doesn’t share this truth, and what the road to refocusing on what matters looks like. 

The great thing about this business is you can build it, find out you built it all wrong, burn it all down, start over and build it right. You can regain the vision and start doing it in alignment with what matters to you. It’s certainly not an easy thing to do, but following through on it is worth it. It gives us a business that puts pressure on the things that really move the needle and nothing else. Shonna Ruble shares her own path through this process, from realizing it was built wrong to building it right in a new city and becoming the top team there. 

Smacked in the face

What led Shonna Ruble into real estate was making sure her children could get what they needed, after her son needed a $700 nebulizer she couldn’t afford. Again, her children are the reason she ultimately decided to build a business and stop working all the time. Sometimes, we get so lost in rain making we forget what matters, but a slap in the face moment got Shonna to refocus. 

Prioritizing what matters

It’s crazy how much real estate you can do when you’re sitting in your car while your kid is at dance or swim class. Shonna learned how to work while her kids were doing something so that she could be there for them. Then after time with her family in the evening, she’d go back to the office. That level of focus is what allowed her business to grow. 

Great people, not-so-great systems 

We can have really amazing people on our teams, but if we don’t have systems, everything falls apart if those people aren’t there anymore. It’s so important to take the time to document what has made you successful because that’s what will keep you going through staff changes. From how we do client events to how we celebrate birthdays on the team, you need to have everything written down. 

Focus on profit 

Leading with profit is something we’re not taught enough in our business. We get caught up in the numbers, awards, units, GCI and volume, not net worth statements, bank accounts and profitability and it gets us in trouble. Shonna learned how to make focus the priority and it gave her staying power while everyone’s business tanked. 

Put pressure on the things that matter most 

A lot of team leaders think you get a new agent ready by teaching them the CRM. The truth is, we have to put pressure on things that move the needle. The onboarding doesn’t end when they sign a contract, it ends when they get their first deal. We have to get them into production and get them to understand the importance of being prospecting-based. That’s what gets them paid and gets them into a deal. 

Even if we have the best recruiting system, it’s impossible to predict who will be great in the long-run. Even the people who interview well can end up just being all talk and nothing more. No matter how detailed your process is, you can never really tell or predict who will be successful. That means we have to open the door for more people, let people prove who they are by their actions, and then also keep the back door open so that the wrong ones get out the door quicker.

For more information, connect with Shonna on LinkedIn or find her on Facebook. 

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If you got into real estate 5-6 years ago, you might be forgiven for thinking this business is easy. We didn’t have the low inventory, high interest rates and the commission changes we’re dealing with now. 

For any agent who started back then, the 2024 market might as well be a whole new industry you have to learn. It was a great time to get into the business, but in order to stay in the business now, you have to learn how to generate deals in this current environment. Many people are failing to do that, and that’s why we’ll continue to see agents throwing in the towel and leaving the industry entirely. 

Mastering the basics of running a solid real estate business is the only way to outlast all the shifts and changes. If you came into the business and immediately started taking shortcuts, you just won’t be able to hack it in the skills-based market we’re in right now. 

If you’re an agent who invested in coaching, and found a way to go out and get business, you’ll never have to complain about any market conditions - even the ones that are taking other people out of the industry. 

I recently sat down with an agent who built his business the right way, and developed skills that create success under any circumstance. Sammy DeStefano shares how he went from car sales to real estate, and what’s allowed him to do so well. 

Why learning the fundamentals matters in this profession

The personality type of most real estate agents is high D, so that means we’re an industry of people who like to do things their own way. Also, real estate is a second or third career for a lot of people, and most of those people don’t like being told to do so they are going to riff and find their own way. That’s why learning the basics is so important.  

For a long time, Sammy felt more comfortable cold calling strangers than calling his sphere. That’s because as a new agent he didn’t feel like he had any value, so it felt like he was just asking family and friends to find someone who wants to pay him. Let’s face it, we’re under-competent in our first deal, we just find someone who agrees to work with us. After working an expired and selling it, and earning the social proof, it was easier for Sammy to feel like he’s bringing value, and he could confidently ask his sphere “do you know anyone who wants to use my level of service?”

You need a coach

You’re an idiot if you’re not writing a check to a coach every month. That’s not to say you wouldn’t have figured things out without a coach. But something has to be said for having someone wise who has been there and done that and also has a feel for what other people are doing around the country. It provides a massive amount of value and insight, which makes business easier. It’s really easy to get into our own bubble or just talk to people in your own brokerage and limit your possibilities. Getting exposed to what other people are doing is what helps us grow the most both personally and in business. 

Guest Info

Sammy DeStefano is a Realtor in Arizona. After spending 6 years in car sales working for BMW in Phoenix, Arizona, Sammy got accustomed to not only sales but more importantly rain making and prospecting. Initially he got into real estate because he had reached his ceiling at my BMW dealership as a business development center caller, sales guy, and ultimately a finance director. After leaving the dealership and getting his license, Sammy joined Mike Ferry Premier coaching within 90 days and was off to the races. In his first year, Sammy sold 30 homes (all expired and canceled listings that he cold called). In his second year, he sold 35 homes from January to June with a goal of 60 homes sold for the year. The rest is history... 

Sammy is proactive and finds his own business, calling and door knocking, and there are more than enough clients to help out there. For more information or to connect with Sammy, call or text 919.454.6482. 

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Whether we like what’s happening in the industry or not, we have to learn how to embrace change. Turbulent and uncertain times aren’t as difficult if we can adapt quickly. It allows us to get into movement and momentum a lot quicker and that sets us up for success. 

When it comes to embracing change, there’s one formula that can guide us. Intention + mechanism = results. If we’re not happy with the results we currently have, we can reverse engineer the process to figure out what intention led to it or what mechanism (or lack thereof) led to the outcome. We can talk about doing great things all day long, but time and results have a way of proving who had the right intentions and who was doing all the right things. 

In order to get this formula to work in our favor, we have to get really comfortable with critiquing ourselves - not out of blame but out of responsibility. If we’re living in a place of constructive self-critique, reflection and asking ourselves the right questions, turbulent times can create massive opportunity. 

How do we give ourselves feedback without beating ourselves up? How do you show up 100% when you set an intention? 

Speaker, coach and author, Ronnie Doss returns to talk about his new book Colossal Considerations and the formula for success. 

Use your past as a university, not a home. Treat it like a tent - don’t build a temple there. -Ronnie Doss 

How to create momentum 

You can’t get momentum without movement, and you can’t get movement without a positive intentional mindset. 

Time reveals the truth about your intentions 

Time always has a way of separating who was truly committed from who was just talking and posing.

Don’t commit for compliance’s sake

A lot of people use compliance as a way to blame someone else when they don’t end up getting the result they want. 

The power of self-critique

If we’re trying to move forward, professionally or personally, we have to search our own hearts, check if we’re giving our best, and self-reflect to figure out what we need to do. 

How to inspire in uncertain times 

In times of great turbulence, tension or uncertainty, we have an opportunity to make a contribution that inspires people, lifts them up and makes their lives better.

Guest Info

Ronnie is a speaker, coach, author of Colossal Considerations: 101 Thought-Provoking Insights To Move Your Life Forward, and America’s #1 Teamwork and Performance Specialist. Ronnie trained for 5 years in the realm of human behavior and personal development. His understanding of why people think, feel and behave gives him phenomenal insights into what may be holding an individual back. Ronnie believes the key to building successful organizations begins with building empowered individuals. Over the past decade, Ronnie has led leadership training in countries around the world including Australia, New Zealand, and the Netherlands.

To buy a copy of Colossal Considerations go to https://a.co/d/88AbDW1. If you’re interested in Ronnie’s Tribe mastermind, send an email to Tribe [email protected].

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One of the key skills of a great salesperson is negotiation, but for the last decade, real estate agents could get away with no having it. Deals were so easy to put together, we didn’t have to fine tune our persuasion and communication abilities. Many agents have never had to do deep negotiation. Even veteran agents who came up in tougher markets need to brush up on that skill too. 

With the way commissions structures are changing, understanding negotiations at a high level has never been more important. We have to understand human psychology, collaborate more closely with other agents, handle tough situations, understand the art of communication and resolving conflict. 

That’s why the team at Forward Coaching developed a course on negotiation and why they are working on getting this course in front of agents ASAP. The market might look a little different, but take it from an agent who has sold through some really rugged markets: there’ll always be a seller and a buyer looking to make a deal. In order to get to those sales, we might have to change what we do to match what’s currently happening. 

If we want to continue to feed our families, give the best service and get the best results right now, becoming master negotiators is non-negotiable. Co-founder and CEO of Forward Coaching, Debbie De Grote joins us to talk about the new course and what it takes to succeed in this tricky market. 

Quotes 

People think being a master negotiator means playing hard ball. The best negotiators actually have a collaborative technique. -Debbie De Grote

Don’t panic, this will become normal to us one day. -Debbie De Grote

I started in a really terrible market so I really don’t fear markets that change. I’m quick to react to them. -Debbie De Grote

Guest Info

Debbie is the co-founder and CEO of Forward Coaching. She began her career in Real Estate at the age of 18 and within a few short years was one of the top agents in the nation, closing over 156 units annually. At the peak of her career Debbie was awarded the Hall of Fame award by Century 21. In fact, Debbie was the first agent in the Century 21 system to achieve this award. In addition to her sales career she also managed a large office, assisted in recruiting efforts, and wrote strategic plans and launched new office locations for two large brokers in the Orange County area. Debbie’s extensive background attracted many opportunities to speak, train and consult with others, which is how she discovered her passion for coaching. Over the last 20 years, Debbie has been considered one of the top Coaches in the Real Estate industry, coaching some of the most elite salespeople and brokers in North America, as well as mortgage, title, escrow, and insurance professionals. She has conducted over 80,000 private coaching calls, hundreds of webinars and live events, and is a sought after speaker at many national conventions.

Go to forwardcoaching.com/negotiations to sign up for the course. 

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Selling real estate in 2024 isn’t at all what it was between 2010 and 2022, and a lot of agents are feeling the squeeze. Most of us built and ran our businesses in low interest rate environments, so this market is completely unfamiliar to us. Running a real estate team is a lot more stressful than it used to be. Deals are harder to put together, we have stricter and newer rules to get compensated, and the costs of running a business and paying our people is so much higher. 

All of this has left a lot of real estate leaders frustrated and even resentful. The fact is: what made us successful in the last few years won’t work in this current market. Due to all the pressures the market is facing, just being good at putting deals together isn’t good enough anymore. We also have to be really good at bringing people to those deals. What that means is an exceptional sales skill set will have to make a real comeback. Right now, everyone is trying to get their sea legs after all the changes, but when things normalize, you’ll either get out of the business or have a bigger opportunity. 

What factors are making real estate so tough? How can leaders navigate these challenges? In this episode, multiple guest Frank Klesitz returns. The CEO of Vyral Marketing and Klesitz Direct shares what he’s hearing from agents across the country, and why it’s harder to sell homes right now.

Marketing doesn’t create motivation, it just finds it. -Frank Klesitz 

Guest Info

Frank is the CEO and founder of Vyral Marketing and Klesitz Direct. He is an intellectually curious artist with experience in business, entrepreneurship, sales, marketing, and real estate. Frank started Vyral Marketing in 2009 after successfully implementing their marketing plan for a real estate agent in Omaha, NE. Frank also runs Klesitz Direct, a new business mailing personal, authentic cold letters to homeowners to generate phone calls from those thinking about selling their home. Go to https://getvyral.com/ and https://klesitzdirect.com/ for more information. 

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In today’s episode, I’m joined by Bob Stewart of community evangelist at Place Inc, and Active Rain before that. Bob’s got a cool story - he’s been in and around real estate for many years. He was a pioneer in real estate blogging, and community building, and also understanding how to drive traffic to websites in the days before Google dominated everything. Bob comes from a place of contribution, and I even remember the days he’d call ActiveRain clients to help them out with marketing, 14 years later. He’s truly a genius at building and growing communities around businesses and now he’s brought his skills to PLACE. 

Bob has been involved in the real estate industry since 2002. He co-founded and was responsible for managing operations for a 150 agent real estate company, and also co-created one of the very first online referral networks. Since 2006, and the beginning of ActiveRain, Bob has been educating, motivating and training real estate agents and brokers around the country. Through live appearances and webinars, Bob has taught thousands of agents the intricacies of online marketing and how to engage online leads and turn them into clients and closed transactions. Bob has successfully instructed agents on a wide range of topics, from the fundamentals of successful agent websites to using social media to enhance an agent’s online profile. He is also well known for his engaging interviews of real estate industry thought leaders. Bob brings his wealth of knowledge and contagious enthusiasm to every seminar, and delivers to his participants the necessary performance skills, the latest, most effective online marketing strategies, and practical lead generation and engagement methods.

Real estate has become so dominated by tech and AI, it’s easy to get confused about what delivers results. Fact is, to extract more deals from our database or any lead source for that matter, the basics still ring true. You just can’t replace calling your database and actually adding value to them.  

The team at PLACE have collected data that drives this home over and over again. One crucial stat we need to be paying attention to is database turnover - how quickly you can call your entire database. Unfortunately the database turnover rates of most teams are abysmal, and it’s costing us money. Instead of buying more leads, we could be doing the work to get more deals from relationships we already have. 

To find out more about the podcast, head to https://winmakegive.com/podcast-2/. 

To do the Wealth Series, go to https://winmakegive.com/wealth/. 

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Time is finite but so many of us are just not purposeful with it. People plan how they go to a movie better than they plan their life, the relationships they have. It’s amazing how calculated we are about our movies and vacations but we don’t do the same thing in our personal worlds.  

Hard work is a key to success but what’s the point if there’s no true balance? So many of us say we work hard for our families but do we really? Start defining achievement a little differently, you can’t let your work define who you are.  

If you count how many winters, Fridays, ocean swims, football seasons, beach days you have in your life, it really puts how finite time is into perspective. If you’ve got 20 years left in your life, and you go snowboarding once a year, you probably have 20 of those days left. 

Think about how many more Halloweens you get with your kids when they are little. How are you taking advantage of those moments? 

The average kid and parent spends 300 days per year together from the time they are 0-18. Over 18 they spend an average of 30 days with their parents, 10 days a year if they don’t live in the same town. Depending on how old your kids are, you might have spent over 50% of your total time with your kids already.

You have to cheat the system and get more purposeful to get more out of those days.

The key thing is becoming aware that time is finite. 

We go through our lives not being purposeful about these things that we deem most important. Cheat the system - do it differently. Think differently to what we usually do in our normal programs of life. 

How do we maximize the moments that we have? When you work hard, think about what you’re giving up in its place.  

We all have things we care deeply about and we neglect them. The good news is: you can do something about it now. 

Now that we know this - what should we do? 

Write your own eulogy: connect the dots and design the specific commitments you want to make to leave the impact you desire to leave. What are the things you could be doing better so that you influence that outcome? 

Truly start life planning: how do you want to be remembered by your kids, how do you want people to speak about you, think about these things and be honest about where you stand. 

Take no days off: every single day you can improve something, whether it’s yourself or a relationship. You can deal with a pain or challenge, and get healthier and smarter. 

Get a Memento Mori calendar. It’s sobering, but also inspiring to see how much time you have. 

Think about your life accounts: health, relationships, wealth, business, friends, social, siblings, spiritual, travel etc. Some of your accounts have really positive balances and others are overdrawn. Prioritize those accounts accordingly 

Health should be number 1, you can’t honor any of the other accounts if you’re not feeling great and alive. 

You are going to outgrow certain things and certain relationships as you grow, accept that. 

Life is about counterbalance - there are times we’ll have to be in the extreme in certain areas, the key is not to stay in the extreme too long. How long can you be in something until other areas start to suffer and/or deteriorate? 

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A lot of people who would be exceptional recruiters don’t do it because it feels like too much of a burden. The idea of building tens or even hundreds of relationships and nurturing them just feels like too much of a logistical nightmare. 

And it would be…which is why it’s the wrong way to do it. If you had a recruiting strategy that was based in building community, it would be so much easier. 

A recruiting strategy based only on yourself is taxing and unsustainable. It’s like inviting 100 people to dinner and having to make all the food yourself. If you had a community, it would be like having a potluck where everyone brought in a dish for everyone to enjoy. 

Instead of having one-on-one relationships, a community-focused approach leverages relationships and takes a huge burden off of you. This is how we were able to build a rev share group of 2400 people. It was about building a room people want to be a part of and allowing everyone to do their part to build and nurture those relationships. That will continue to pay off.  

What other misconceptions keep people from the wins of recruiting? How do we bring leverage to our recruiting? Today, I’m joined by Chris Bowers for an in-depth conversation on recruiting and the easiest way to recruit. 

Quotes 

Don’t take advice from people who don’t have the life you want. -Chris Bowers

There are a few things that are absolutes in my life, everything else is negotiable. -Chris Bowers 

You can’t make people change, but you can make them do something different. -Kevin Kauffman 

Guest Info

Chris Bowers is a Realtor, Investor and owner of the Bowers Team, and the host of The agentXcel podcast. Chris has been in real estate for over 16 years, but he has been an entrepreneur since his teens. Today, Chris and his wife run a successful team selling over 140 units with half of those being Chris’ personal production. He has also built a solid rental portfolio that continues to grow to this day. 

Follow @chrisbowers_realestate on Instagram and listen to agentXcel on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.  

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