Request time! This week we’re diving into the 1990 cult classic, ‘Night Breed,’ directed by Clive Barker. For the first time ever, we’re reviewing both the theatrical cut and the director’s cut of the film.

We discuss the film’s storied history, from its troubled release to the rediscovery of lost footage that led to the creation of the director’s cut. We also share our own impressions and thoughts on the movie, the characters, and the visual effects. If you’re a fan of Clive Barker, horror films, or just curious about ‘Night Breed,’ you won’t want to miss this episode. Join us as we unravel the complexities and delve into the world of Midian. Don’t forget to leave your thoughts and comments; we’d love to hear what you think!

Episode 448, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Well, we come to another request. It is about time, and so as we always do, we put out a few movies that have been requested and added to our long standing request list to our patrons. Give them a poll and say, which of these three movies would you like us to do? And I thought it was leading in one direction for a while, and then, uh, at the last minute took a sharp turn.

And gosh, this might be one of our most participated polls ever. And overwhelmingly, everyone wanted us to do Clive Barker’s 1990 “Night Breed”, which had been requested by one of our listeners, Harry. Harry, who’s also a sports podcaster and an author, and I believe it was on Facebook or maybe it was on our patron page, that he had reached out and asked if we could do that or Midnight Meat Train.

And so, uh, yeah, we’re doing night breed. Thanks to him and the votes of our patrons, and it’s cool because neither Craig nor I had seen Nightbreed, oddly enough, even though I think it was in our faces all the time, right? I mean, you know, see it in the video store all the time. It’s a Clive Barker thing.

But as I started looking into it, I thought, wow, we’re, it feels like we’re biting off a lot by doing this movie much more than I realized because this film has a very storied history that stretches well into the two thousands, even with different versions that have come out. This is another one of those classic movies that Clive Barker, who was writer director of it, was based on his novella, really had grand ambitions and was given control, and then at the end of it all, the studio rested control back away from him and decided to put out a cut that he was not happy with.

That apparently most people involved were not happy with, didn’t really know what to do with the movie, didn’t really understand it. Marketed it as a totally different film, really, and that might be a big reason. You know, just audience expectations, why it was really a critical and commercial failure. At the time, it was released to theaters in 1990 and turned Clive Barker off of filmmaking for quite a while after that.

And so later in the two thousands, I think it was 2014, some people got a hold of footage that he thought thought was lost or misplaced or not in good shape or whatnot, and worked with him and they put together a director’s cut. They basically went with an old print of the film. One of the earlier prints of the film that they had had, that he had cut together and that this reflects, he said at the time, he said, this reflects my original vision.

This is the movie I wanted everybody to see. So I said to Craig, since we are in a unique situation here, why don’t we do something I don’t think we’ve ever done before? How do you feel about watching First the theatrical cut and then the director’s cut so that we can really go in all eyes open and fully compare these as though we were people who at the time had seen it in the theater and then later on caught the original director’s vision and we’ll have a lot to talk about comparing and contrasting, and you were up for it.

We had some extra time and so we did it. There is also, by the way, full disclosure, a third cut out there called the cabal cut, which is like three hours long and over three hours. Yeah. Hey, nobody got time for that, least of which Craig and I who were very, very interested in movies that are 90 minutes or less, I thought about it, but no, he won.

I thought if I had been just super, super taken by this, maybe I would go out and, and watch the cabal cut, you know, a month later. Uh, I don’t know if I will, but, uh, so anyway, this is my first time seeing it. Craig, that’s also your first time seeing it. We talked about that. Yeah. 

Craig: Yeah. Which is again, as you already said, I think super weird.

I don’t know how both of us have gotten this far in our lives and have not seen this movie. Yeah. Um, because it’s not like it’s some, you know, strange, oddball thing that people have never heard about. People talk about this movie a lot. It’s Clive Barker. I’m a huge fan of his. I just don’t know. And like you said, it’s not like it was difficult to find.

It was right there on the video shelves. I can’t tell you how many times I looked at it and thought, well, that looks interesting, but I don’t know why I didn’t pick it up. 

Todd: But I didn’t, I think I can tell you why I didn’t pick it up when I was a kid and I saw this on the shelves, I looked at it and I saw all the different goth looking creatures and stuff on the front, and I thought, I think this movie’s necessarily gonna appeal to me.

I figured it was gonna be, and I probably read the back of it about a bunch of like gothy creatures in tunnels under the city or something like that, in some other world. And, and I, that just was not really the kind of thing I was into. I didn’t feel like there would be much mystery. I didn’t think it would be much.

I clearly was gonna be more fantasy than I was into at the time, which again, I was, I think we talked on the Hellraiser episode, took me forever to see Hellraiser because again, the imagery and just that appeal, it just wasn’t what I was into. Gimme a slasher, gimme the dream Master Freddy Krueger. Give me some cheesy fun to laugh at.

Horror movie. That’s very typical. This was just the aesthetic of it. Didn’t seem like it would appeal to me. So 

Craig: I don’t know. I don’t know why it didn’t appeal to me. It should have I, everything else like this did, like even the characters have kind of a very, like labyrinth true dark crystal return to Oz, kind of look about them.

And I was totally into that stuff, so I don’t know why it didn’t appeal to me. I have no idea. But this is the first time I’ve seen it. And you talked about how there are different edits of it. I have a cautionary tale. Oh. When we pick these movies, Todd is always very kind and sends me useful links where I can find the movie Uhhuh.

And you ignore them? Not usually. I, I, I mean, it just depends. It just so happens Alan has been. Not home in the evenings. ’cause he’s working on a show. I wanted to watch Night Breed on an actual TV and you know, you and I had talked about we’re gonna watch the theatrical cut and then we’re gonna watch the other cut, whatever.

And so I found it on Amazon. It’s on Amazon Prime and they have the theatrical cut, which is a part of Amazon Prime. Like you don’t have to pay anything extra for it. And then they have the director’s cut that you have to rent for $4 or buy for like $15 or whatever. Huh. But that was great. Wanted to watch it.

So watched it and then I went to watch the, uh, director’s cut or whatever and I was like, this is exactly the same. I don’t, I don’t get it. Oh no. So I checked it out. Buyer beware. Amazon is a liar. What they are giving you for free as the theatrical cut is the director’s cut. You can’t get the theatrical cut.

On Amazon. Oh, they say that it is, but it’s not. So you watched them in reverse? I watched them in reverse, but I, when that happened, I was like, oh, this is annoying. But then I thought, well maybe this will be interesting. Yeah, because I saw as close to what. Clive Barker wanted as it could get. And then I saw the theatrical cut and I have a take, so I am interested.

Did did you watch both? Did you watch the theatrical and then the other one? 

Todd: Yeah, I watched them theatrical first and then the And then the other one. Yep. So I watched the opposite of you because when 

Craig: I started watching, the first one that I watched, which was the director’s cut, and I just didn’t know it.

I was texting you, I was like, oh my God. Already not a fan. I hate it. 

Todd: That’s right. You’re like, it’s so chopped up. And I was like, yeah, it is Little. Did you realize it could get worse? 

Craig: Little did I realize, I don’t know. So. I am really, I mean, I don’t know if there’s any reason to be coy about it and if, I don’t know.

I don’t even feel like this movie is worthy necessarily of a spoiler alert. It’s about demons or something that live underground. It’s, there’s not a lot to spoil, but if you don’t want spoilers, turn it off now. 

Todd: Yeah, now’s the time. 

Craig: Honestly. I liked the theatrical cut better, and I don’t think that it was just because it was shorter.

Now that may have had something to do with it. Uhhuh, I found the director’s cut Confusing. Really? Yes. Wow. I don’t know, and maybe I just felt 

Todd: like the theatrical cut was much more direct. Okay. That is interesting. I agree with you on that statement. I thought that theatrical cut was extremely direct.

However, having not seen the director’s cut, so I didn’t know the story beforehand. Having nothing to compare it to. I was confused. Okay. Because it cuts to the chase so fast that I had very little feeling for these characters. Like it jumps in and what we’ve got these guys, Aaron and Lori, his girlfriend, Aaron’s having these tattoo.

Nobody ever calls him Aaron. They only call him Boone. So let’s do that for now. They always call him Boone. Okay. I wrote him in here as Aaron. ’cause some people do call him Aaron, they call him Boone. Even his girlfriend calls him by his last name. Like, what the hell? But anyway, yeah, he’s having these bad dreams and his girlfriend’s like, oh, you getting the bad dreams, aren’t you?

And then his doctor, he’s with his psychiatrist. And his psychiatrist who is played by David Cronenberg. I know. And we 

Craig: can’t, like I know that we’re getting a late start, but we can’t gloss over things like that. The intro, like you don’t know. No, I mean I, yes, the intro, I mean, everything is crazy. Like the credits are so weird.

Like it just immediately smacks you with the imagery of these. Monsters like writhing around with snakes 

Todd: and stuff. Like I thought, because again, ’cause I watched the theatrical cut first. I thought, okay, they took a bunch of footage they were gonna cut and they decided to just make a cool credit sequence out of it, which is just monsters snarling, just very, very random.

No, they shot all that for the credit sequence. It’s pretty nuts. It is nuts. And, 

Craig: and then the whole first scene is like some bird creature. Person, like these are all people in prosthetics and makeup, which yeah, I love, I absolutely love it. Looks fantastic, but it’s, I, I, I don’t know, like it’s dreamlike and, and this first, uh, scene, like they’re all getting chased and they, they run behind this gate and they close the gate, but it turns out to be the main guy’s dream.

And he’s seeing this psychiatrist who apparently he’s seen for a long time now. I had to watch it twice to kind of understand what was going on. And again, spoilers, but his. Dr. Decker is played by David Cronenberg, and I just can’t, I mean, we, we’ve done David Cronenberg movies, we’ve talked about him extensively.

I don’t know that I ever had an idea in my mind of what he looked like, but now that I do, I am shocked that he didn’t act 

Todd: more. 

Craig: He is 

Todd: so 

Craig: good in this movie. 

Todd: He was in your fa well, previously your favorite Friday of the 13th movie. Jason Acts in the very beginning looks about the same too. Uhhuh, yeah.

Chris, it wasn’t too, too many years after that, I suppose. I mean, you thought his acting was good, I suppose. 

Craig: Yes, I really did. And but, but it wasn’t even just the acting, it was just that he is a handsome guy. Like he looks like an actor. 

Todd: Well, that’s true. Yeah. And you 

Craig: know, he’s, he’s tall and lean and he’s got an interesting face and all his hair.

And like in this part he’s supposedly Boone’s psychiatrist, who he has been with for a long time. Now, again, for the hundredth time, spoiler alert, ’cause I didn’t get this the first time. Boone has been having dreams about murders or apparently, you know, when he was talking to this doctor, he was having dreams about murders.

Todd: Yeah. And he’s 

Craig: kind of having dreams again. But the dreams are more just about the monsters that we already talked about in this place called Midian. And he’s actually kind of, he tells his girlfriend like, I’m not really scared of the dreams anymore. They’re actually kind of comforting as it turns out his doctor.

Is a crazy person. I didn’t get this the first time at all. You mean in the beginning or just 

Todd: completely? 

Craig: No, no, no. I mean, actually the first time I watched the movie, I never put it together. I never put it together that Boone had described these murders to his psychiatrist and then the psychiatrist, who is a crazy person, went out and recreated the 

Todd: murders.

Right? I mean, it’s so confusing in the theatrical cut because there are big chunks of the doctor scenes that are missing, that are in the director’s cut, and a man does it flesh out necessary information. ’cause the doctor has this bag. Actually, I’m not even sure now. I can’t remember what is in his suitcase.

Craig: It’s a briefcase. He has like a briefcase that has, but again, you don’t know this. All we see is there’s this horribly violent. Murder scene where there’s this very normal family, husband and wife who are like average middle American people. They don’t look like, yeah. You know, supermodel actors or whatever.

They’re just normal people. And they’ve got a kid who from the top of the stairs says to his mom, like, I think I saw a scary guy. And she’s like, no, no, no, everything’s fine. You just go to bed. I’ll come up and say goodnight in a minute. And then she gets brutally slaughtered, and then the husband gets brutally slaughtered, and then you don’t see it on screen, but it’s assumed that that little.

Sweet kid gets brutally slaughtered too by this man in a great mask. I was calling him sack head. I think that in my notes, I think that people online call him button eyes, but it’s just like, yeah, like a burlap. It’s not really a sack because it’s kind of fitted like a mask. Like it’s, it’s fitted to his head, kind of The eyes are just buttons and the mouth is ask skew off to one side and kind of a grin and it’s a zipper and it’s like part zipped and part not, and I mean, this stuff, all of this I love.

Like I, I thought that he looked great. Yeah. I’m gonna have a hard time pinpointing why I didn’t like it, but I just didn’t. 

Todd: Yeah. I didn’t. Really like it either. I think, well, first of all, that mask reminded me of Sam Hein from, from the, uh, trick or Treat movie Uhhuh. It, it very much is like a skinny form fitted version of that, but it’s got that Clive Barker, he’s, he’s Clive Barker has always got a little bit of that, like sexual s and m Edge to some of the stuff that he does.

Oh 

Craig: yeah. And 

Todd: this does look very much like a burlap sack version of a, I don’t know what you call it, right? The match, 

Craig: yeah, the rubber. Yeah. Like A-B-D-S-M rubber match with the 

Todd: zipper and everything, but a skew, you know, so this guy’s, I guess, you know, implies this guy’s getting a lot of pleasure from what he’s doing.

So there’s an interesting juxtaposition between the guy and the dreams and what’s, obviously just like a killer slasher guy. Turns out that characters, the, the monsters and things that he’s having the dreams about, they’re. Basically the good guys. 

Craig: Yeah. 

Todd: And it’s his Dr. Guy and, and basically all of the humans, with the exception of him and his girlfriend, are kind of the nasty people.

Uh, it’s very much a movie about othering and the oppressed and the silenced and the, the weird being pushed aside and being unacceptable for the world. I’ve heard a lot of talk about how this might be the queerest horror movie ever made in the sense that it seems like that’s a very strong message behind the film.

May it may be. I mean, it’s it’s very obviously a strong theme by the end of the movie. You get that. In fact, it’s weird because, I mean, I’m sure you’ve read the same stuff I did and I saw a lot of interviews. Did you find it on YouTube that when they premiered the director’s cut, there was a q and a with Clive Barker and several of the cast and, and people involved in the production of the movie that they did.

That was kind of fun. Did you see that at all? No, no. Yeah. I mean, they talk about really the studio didn’t get the picture because they were so excited about Hellraiser. They wanted basically another hell raiser, and so they couldn’t figure out why these monsters were good guys. They’re like, they seem like good guys.

And Barker’s like, yeah, that’s the point. It’s the whole point of the movie is that the monsters are the good guys and the bad guys are the humans. But they marketed it like a slasher movie, and he was so pissed about it at the time. He was so pissed. Like if you look at IMDB, you can see the original poster for this movie, and it’s just got this woman’s wide eyes on it and it says, yeah, the posters dumb.

She thought she knew everything about her boyfriend, but Lori was wrong. God, that’s not what I grew up seeing on the shelves. You know, on the shelves. At least the, no, the VHS sleeve had the main character surrounded by what looks like his gang of yes monsters. So. Yeah, I could see why. I know, I could see why this completely just pissed off Barker and then the way it was chopped up didn’t really change the, any of that at all.

I think it really didn’t change the thematic elements of the movie. 

Craig: I didn’t think so either. Like there was, I, I felt like I had read about, you know, Barker was so disappointed in the, the way that it had been edited and so much had been cut out. And again, I saw, you know, the extended cut first. But when I saw the theatrical cut, I was like, huh.

Yeah. Like I still got the gist. Maybe it’s because. 

Todd: You saw the director’s cut, 

Craig: right? Right. Maybe. I really think so because I already had that in my mind. Yeah. But I didn’t really feel like I missed out on a lot. There are leaps. In fact, I thought, I thought some things made more sense in the theatrical cut.

Like, like what the, that weird priest who just gets introduced at the very end at the jail. Mm-hmm. And then he like kind of plays a big part in the end in the director’s cut. I had no idea who he was or what he was supposed to be doing. And his scenes were placed in different places in the theatrical cut because it was tighter.

Yeah. Like he still seemed like an extraneous character who I didn’t care about, but at least like he played a role, like it was important. 

Todd: I think you’re right in that that priest role, which it’s so weird to bring in what turns out to be a fairly consequential character in three quarters of the way through your movie, but because the movie’s shorter in the theatrical cut and because it tightens the space between his scenes.

You’re right, I can, I can see that now where the priest definitely felt once he was introduced, like he was a little bit more of the story, whereas in the theatrical cut, he’s so spread out once he’s introduced that it’s like, oh yeah, there’s that guy, and why is he suddenly popping up again? I can totally see that.

Was there anything else? 

Craig: Oh gosh. I don’t know. I mean, I just didn’t feel like anything that that got put back into the director’s cut was really all that essential. Like I did very much enjoy. Their girlfriend singing that song, 

Todd: but it did need to go on for the length of the song. Did it 

Craig: Todd? That song has been in my head for like the rest of the week.

Todd: Oh, that’s hilarious. All this week.

Clip: The I ever, I a brave man. I a man Johnny show that you

Craig: And then my, my favorite line. I want a brave man. I want a cave man.

I, I loved that. Like, I can’t believe that. They trimmed that? Were they thinking cutting That? That was like my favorite part. 

Todd: I don’t know. I’ll tell you that first, beginning bit is my biggest problem with the theatrical cut, I think. I think that maybe you had the benefit of having seen their relationship as presented in the theatrical cut.

I’m sorry, in the director’s cut. So when you went to the theatrical cut and you saw it, you appreciated that they were just getting to the point of the action much sooner. Mm-hmm. When I saw the theatrical cut, to me, that whole beginning sequence up until he gets to Midian was so chopped up that, yeah, I.

Barely got a feel for who these people were, what their relationship was. Even like, I’m like, okay, well I, she’s his girlfriend, so I guess she cares about him, but it’s so jumpy that, you know, after like 10 minutes or whatever, he’s suddenly leaving and she’s upset about it. Then this doctor’s doing this thing and then he’s dead.

And I, I, I just didn’t even feel like I cared about him all that much yet. And already he’s dead. And I know I’m supposed to understand what’s happening here and how it’s affecting everybody. And I really didn’t, 

Craig: I just didn’t feel like the directors cut really expanded upon any of that at all. Like, it all moves so quickly and it all just kind of throws you into, okay, here’s this guy, and he dreams of this place where there’s a bunch of monsters.

And in his mind it’s like, oh, this is a good place because you go there and nobody judges you and you’re forgiven for everything that you’ve ever done. Who cares? He hasn’t done anything. Why is he 

Todd: true? 

Craig: Why is he dreaming of this place? Like none 

Todd: of this is ever explained. Actually, that’s a good point.

The movie even brings it out after he dies and then is sort of resurrected. 

Craig: How does he die? He gets shot. Oh, the, the doctor, this apparently psychopath that he just happened to go to for. Therapy. This guy’s a nutcase, and he is a killer and wants to kill people. So I’m a nutcase doctor, and some guy comes to me and is like, oh, I have these dreams of this place where there’s freaks and monsters, but I want to go there because everything is forgiven when you go there.

Okay. So now me, the doctor. Ooh, tell me more. Like, like, I, like, I wanna go there. What, what? Like, yeah. 

Todd: It 

Craig: doesn’t make any sense. And, and I don’t, that doesn’t bother me because movies don’t have to make sense. Yeah. But, and I, I don’t think that I’ve read this book, but I would be really interested in reading it because I almost feel like it.

It must come across better. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: On the page, because just throwing you into this world, it’s jarring. Yeah. It’s weird. It’s weird. And it’s jar, it’s, it’s jarring not only to throw you into this world, but to throw you into it immediately. The very first thing you see are all these monsters writhing around with snakes and shit.

Like, just, here we are. This is the world that we’re in. Get used to it. Go. It’s, it’s, it’s, 

Todd: it’s strange. It’s a strange movie. I can see the vision behind it. Barker himself, he said he wanted to create the Star Wars of horror. He wanted to do epic world building here, create these characters. He had a trilogy in mind.

He was hoping it would go beyond that. And I can see the ambition, you know, from a special effects and makeup effects thing. I mean, he was only given a couple million for Hellraiser, and the studio gave him 11 million for this and said, go to town. And I feel like he spent all that and more up on the screen as far as visual effects and makeup effects.

And there was stop motion in there. I mean, I. In that aspect, it’s really, really impressive. But in the story aspect, it feels so claustrophobic to me. 

Craig: It somehow misses the mark and I can’t figure out why even the effects. And, and you talked about like the stop motion there. There are some. Okay. So all of these freaks live in Midian, which people assume is a town, but it’s not, it’s really just like a graveyard.

But the, the truth of the matter is there’s a whole underground layer that they live in. Like it’s enormous. And some of that, especially at the end, looks amazing. And there are some great effects. And I feel like he tried to do things with showing us the different types of people, beings, whatever they’re supposed to be in Midian.

But it it, it was always just like. Here, I’m gonna take a, a, a shot, not a photograph, but that’s what it looks like because it’s just one person in frame. Like, ah, look what I did. Like, here’s a freaky fat guy. Ah, 

Todd: and then, yeah, here’s a freaky guy eating eels. Here’s a freaky guy with stuff that comes out of his stomach and here’s a, yeah.

Yeah. Ah, I mean, sad to say, a little bit like death house, right? Where. You’re just room after room after room, like this city or this layer that they’re in. It feels more like a jail, 

Craig: you know? It does, but, and that’s another thing that bothered me and I wonder what it’s like in the book, because there’s a point in the movie, and I don’t remember when it is, it’s when the, the main guy, Boone, has already, I think, gotten killed and then resurrected by the things in Midian.

So now he’s night breed two or whatever, and then his girlfriend goes there to find him and she like rescues a weird like elf coyote, and then. When she gets it into the shade, it turns into a girl and the girl’s mom’s like, oh yeah, she likes to play in the sun, but she doesn’t realize it’s gonna turn her into an elf, coyote or whatever, and quote from the movie.

No, 

Todd: I’m just kidding. 

Craig: I, gosh, I don’t even remember I got all caught up with the elf coyote ’cause it was so important. But like, it doesn’t, well it, it, it just seems so, I don’t know. Like I, I feel like I know, it seems so small. I need a limited. Series or Yes. You know, like I, I’m not getting enough of who these people are or what they’re supposed to be, because what we’re supposed to, I think, ultimately believe is that these are just different beings and just they just wanna be left alone.

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: They just wanna exist. Just leave them alone. 

Todd: Be left alone. They’re like the outcast of society. And there’s this large, strange, unexplained entity named Luc, not Lucifer, what was it? 

Craig: Bath, BAME. Bath. 

Todd: May Bath, ofme. It was like bathe, but with a, if you pronounce it French, I guess Bath Ofme, which more or less looks like a statue in the, in the center of the city who has created this quote unquote city as their refuge and helped keep it hidden.

But it doesn’t feel like a city, like it doesn’t feel like they have a society down there. I mean, if they do, we don’t see them like interacting with each other, eating, playing, uh, doing things. We just see them sitting around in rooms, snarling and, yeah, being weird, you know? Yeah, that’s what I was 

Craig: trying to get at, because the weird coyote.

Things Mom. Rachel is like with a night 

Clip: breed. The last survivors of the great tribes, okay? Tribes of what we are shapeshifters freaks remains of races that your tribe have almost driven to extinction. So you’re not immortal far from it. The sun can kill some of us, like Babet. Some of us can be shot down, others can survive that because they’ve gone beyond death.

This is too weird to be able to fly, to be smoke or a wolf to know the night and live in it forever. That’s not so bad. 

Craig: You know? We’re all happy here. Like the things that you envy we can do. So like it. It sounds like we should be envious of. What they have, but it looks like a terrible hellscape. 

Todd: It looks like a terrible place to be.

Craig: Yeah. Yeah. It’s just, it’s just these horribly deformed, humanoid type people. Huddling in corners by themselves. By torch light. Yeah. In 

Todd: dirt 

Craig: holes in the wall with elaborate. Yeah. I do not envy this like, like I, it’s cool that you can turn into smoke and hypnotize people with your titties, but I do not wanna live in this.

Horrible place where big gross guys have like weird telescopic snakes that come outta their gut. Yeah, it’s true. It does not look like a pleasant place to be. And and I get it, like Clive Barker is dark and I love that about him. Yeah. I, I love that he’s dark and he’s into all this s and m stuff and I really enjoy reading his stuff.

I like watching his movies, but I just couldn’t, this was weird. You’re supposed to, you are supposed to have empathy for the night breed, right? You’re supposed to root for them. They are the heroes of the movie and. To be fair. Yeah. The people in the movie are horrible. 

Todd: All the people, almost all of them, except for the guardian guy, the classic old man who has the gas station slash the gas station guy, taco shop, curio shop or whatever.

I mean, there are 

Craig: fine people in the movie there and you know, the, the main guy’s fine. His girlfriend’s fine. She makes a friend at a bar who is fine. But anybody who is like representative of authority 

Todd: yeah. Is. Horrible. The sheriff’s an asshole. The the detective. Oh, well, the detective’s more confused than anything, but he goes, the psychiatrist 

Craig: is terrible.

Yeah, police are terrible. Eventually the psychiatrist convinces the horrible sheriff to put together a redneck militia. Yes. 

Todd: Which he has on hand. Apparently. They have logos and hats. It’s insane and everything. Yeah, and he’s very proud of it. 

Craig: They put together a redneck militia and then. The police go to, I guess, what is their like bunker?

Yes. Where they have 

Todd: like machine 

Craig: guns 

Todd: drawn out explanation. This is 

Craig: insane. 

Todd: This is typical horror movie. This I found. Okay, I get what he’s doing. So the people are worse than the animal, than the creatures and all that. But none of this is really helped by the supposed motivations of the psychiatrist and all this, how this all comes together.

Because ultimately, I guess the psychiatrist’s motivation, I think Decker, that’s his name. 

Craig: Yeah. 

Todd: Is for Boone to lead him to Midian, right? Yeah. So that he can continue the cleansing or whatever that he’s doing. Yeah. But it turns out Midian’s really just down the road and it’s just in this rather large and obvious cemetery.

That is right along the highway that if you just walk in there and stumble around for 10 minutes, you’re bound to run into one of these creatures because they’re out wandering around, approaching people who 

Craig: come If you go there at night, wow. They pretty much, they pretty much stay inside during the day, except for the little girl 

Todd: turning into a dog turns right out in the open.

He turns the weird coyote. You know? I mean like, and even then, if you’re all curious or exploratory in this graveyard, all you gotta do is open the doors to this mausoleum or whatever. That’s, it’s like swinging doors on this mausoleum walk inside three steps, and there’s a staircase that leads right down into their layer.

I mean, it’s not, yeah, it’s not magically hidden. I didn’t get the sense that Bafa Ma did a great job keeping them hidden and protected, let alone that the sheriff. Who Midian is within his jurisdiction, apparently didn’t know weird shit was happening there. Or they keep to 

Craig: themselves, 

Todd: oh, come on. When our main character gets there at night, he’s instantly like accosted by.

He’s grieving. He’s instantly 

Craig: accosted. He shows up during, he shows up during the day and then sleeps there, falls asleep. Inexplicably decides to take a nap. Yeah. Wakes up. Well, and then the dreadlocks guy gets after him with his buddy. I, I, yeah. I called him. Dreadlocks Darth Mall. ’cause that’s what he looked like.

Um, but, but that’s not what wakes him up first. Uh, my favorite part of this movie, and I’m, I may need to ask questions about this, but there’s just, there’s just one little twink guy Oh, who’s just a normal, mostly naked little twink guy, and he has a little Boston Terrier. And my soul remaining dog is a little Boston Terrier, and she is my life.

Aw. So when he inexplicably like, he’s like, oh my God, I have to find this place. I have to find it. I have to find it. I have to find it. And then he finds it and he’s like, you know what? I think I need a nap. He just sits down and goes to sleep. But he wakes up to this little Boston Terrier licking his face, and it’s so cute, and then it runs away, and then it’s little twink owner grabs it.

Now, this little guy, I don’t remember what his name is, they all have weird names, but this little guy, I guess you don’t have to look like a monster to be night breed because Boone becomes night breed, but. He o, he looks normal most of the time. Like he kinda like monsters out the way that vampires vamp out on Buffy?

Yeah, like 

Todd: like on cue, like whatever he wants to, he can do that. Yeah. So I don’t know. And does that give him pow, did that make him stronger? I guess I never really got what it did besides like put these weird tattoo marks on his face. 

Craig: This is why I think that it would be so much better as a book, because I just don’t understand like, okay, ultimately it turns out that there’s some prophecy that like he’s supposed to be their savior or something.

And I guess some of them know that. And that’s the only reason to me. Why wouldn’t they just kill him? He’s annoying. Like he does nothing but bring them trouble. Like True. Just, just eat him. 

Todd: Yeah. Well that’s how he becomes night breed, right? Is ’cause the dreadlocks guy bites him. Yeah, he’s 

Craig: like, he’s 

Todd: meat.

Clip: He’s meat. I, I’ve been 

Todd: chases him for a while, which 

Craig: we learn later in one of the cuts was prophesized 

Todd: or whatever. Right. Did he know that he was fulfilling a prophecy when he bit him or did he just not check the paintings? 

Craig: A according to one of the cuts, I don’t remember which one because he shows, he’s the one who shows them.

Yeah, there’s big exposition later. God. It’s the reason that I’m shaking my head, which obviously y’all can’t see, but the reason that I’m shaking my head is because it’s all explained later in exposition that I don’t. Care about, like by them. It comes so late. Yeah. Like literally in the last 10 minutes of the movie, dreadlock Darth Mall explains this to Boone’s girlfriend, like, oh, it’s a big prophecy.

And look, here’s all of these like cave paintings that show it. And it shows me biting him. And I knew that I had to, and he’s mine or something like, 

Todd: yeah, really? I think it was mostly the director’s cut because the theatrical cut, I don’t remember ever seeing any of that, or if I did, it was very, very short.

And by the way, those cave paintings, they were painted by like, I mean, Barker brought all the talent in for this. He brought in Danny Elman to do the score, which is fantastic. And this was. Just off of Batman. I think he had just done Batman before this and was before he had done like every score for every other movie.

And then the guy who did those cave paintings, which apparently was a massive set and a massive ordeal for him to do these paintings, was the dude who, um, oh gosh, I wish I had his name on hand. But, uh, he did the matte paintings and stuff for Star Wars. Like, he was very big in set design and, and matte paintings and, and art direction and all that stuff.

Craig: There were some really amazing matte painting sets for this movie too. Oh yeah, they looked really cool. There are, you know, like. I, I’ve only seen this movie twice now in the last four days, but I know that there are big fans of it and if you are a big fan, there are some really cool things on YouTube where they really get into the nitty gritty Oh yeah.

Trying to dissect stuff. And I, I watched a couple of them, like I, I watched a whole thing about who the different monsters are and not only how they feature in this movie, but then there are comics and, and other stuff that, you know, continue the story. It is very interesting. So if you’re a fan of the movie and you haven’t seen that stuff, I very much recommend it.

’cause there’s some cool stuff out there to read. I don’t know. I, I, I think that if I had seen it, I don’t know. I can’t believe that we haven’t seen it. 

Todd: Yeah, 

Craig: I won’t speak for you. I feel like I missed the boat. I just couldn’t get into it. Watching both and. Honestly, watching the directors cut first and then watching the theatrical cut, the stuff that they cut, I didn’t think was really that important.

I looked it up. He’s figure in theology in a, a bunch of different theologies and he represents different things and whatever, but I, I looked it up and it, it, it’s a thing, but he’s basically just. A statue. Yeah. That kind of talks at the end, and you see it in both cuts. You see more of him in the theatrical cut, or excuse me?

No, the director’s cut, 

Todd: but you, you don’t learn more about it. No, it’s true. But there’s something about just seeing more of everything that makes it a little more fluid. I have to disagree with you. I thought the theatrical cut was so chopped up that it was throwing things at me so fast and so furiously and everything it’s throwing at me is just different.

You know, it’s just wacky character after wacky character after wacky character. They’re coming in and out and in and out. In the meantime, it feels like it’s trying to cram this plot into an hour and a half at such a fast pace and such lightning speed that I didn’t really feel like I had to handle on much of anything that was, that was happening.

I mean, I got the general gist, but all the finer details and none of my questions got answered, and I think even just giving my brain a little more time to digest and make connections and think about what I was seeing was helpful. Even just seeing more of Baff ame and having that break for my brain was kind of nice and reinforced.

Okay, this guy really is. Important. It’s not just this dude thrown in here. There were just things that I thought were better fleshed out in the director’s cut that I did not get in the theatrical cut, and I was glad for it. But there were still, it’s still so loose. There’s still so many Yes questions and, and, and between the two, like, I still don’t get, the priest was angry about bringing Decker into their world at first.

Right. He says like, you’ve endangered our world because of Decker. Yeah. And Decker can lead our enemies here. It just feels like anyone could go there. It is not hard to find this place. The whole way that, that Boone finds it in the first place is that he’s sent briefly to like the loony bin. I guess he’s in a hospital 

Craig: because he gets hit by a truck because his psych.

Psychiatrist gave him 

Todd: drugs, LSD or something, which was not clear to me in the theatrical, but what made a lot more sense in the director’s cut, like there was a scene or two in there. I was like, 

Craig: oh, I get it. It was the drugs that he gave him. This is the thing that I think is emblematic of my problem with the movie.

So he’s in the hospital, he’s been whacked out on drugs, but apparently he wakes up and he’s fine and the first thing he hears is this. Person saying, take me to Midian. Take me to Midian. And he finds this guy, this crazy guy who’s like, oh, I wanna go to Midian. Midian’s this place. And he’s like, what do you know about Midian?

And they talk for a second. 

Clip: They won’t come money you here. They won’t show themselves to the likes of you. What did you just say? What did you just say? You said Midian, did I? Maybe. What do you know about it? It’s where the monsters go. It takes away the pig. 

Craig: And then he’s like, yeah, I’ll take you there. And the guy’s like, oh, you’ve been sent here.

You’re testing me. And eventually there’s a big gory scene where this crazy guy rips off his scalp. Then the movie goes on for another 20 minutes. And Boone dies. He gets shot by police because the, his doctor, his psychiatrist, convinces the police to shoot him or whatever, and then it immediately cuts to a scene where the guy who scalped himself in the hospital is ushering Boone into.

The underground of Midian. It seems like there should have been four other scenes before this. Yeah, I have no idea. I had and have no idea how Narciss, that’s the scalp guy ended up there. Yeah, and I think it was in the extended cut. He comes in and, oh God, what’s his name? The guy who plays Pinhead? Doug Bradley.

Doug Bradley who is like the priest 

Todd: figure type guy. 

Craig: I guess they bring him into this priest figure. Doug Bradley and Doug Bradley is like, have you studied all of the laws of Midian? And Boone is like, yeah, I’ve been studying them for a while. So like what? I feel like we missed a whole thing. 

Todd: Yeah. And also, so was Narcis actually a denizen of Midian that was just.

Placed there? No. Did he get recruit somewhere in the middle of this? He somehow knew about it and then he had, he pointed out the window. It was like, it’s over there. And that was all the information to Boo needed to get there? No, he gave street, 

Craig: no, he gave street by street directions. That was hilarious.

He was like, then you turn left on Maine 

Todd: and then go down the highway nine, take your third exit past the Buckys, you know, continue. Yeah, 

Craig: it was hilarious. Street by street. And then, okay, so then Boone left him and took his directions and he stayed back and the psychiatrist came and questioned him and apparently got the directions out of him too before he died.

Because then later, then later. The psychiatrist shows up in Midian and Boone has him like cornered or something, but then nurses comes out of nowhere and is like, you can kill him, but I want his balls. And, and he says like, do you remember me? You got all your answers out of me when I was at my weakest.

So like, we’re, we’re just, I guess he 

Todd: was a former patient of the psychiatrist? 

Craig: No, the psychiatrist just went in like, oh, after he had already pulled it. Don’t you remember that? Yes. He had a, he said something like, he said, I need privacy. I can talk to him and I can probably get things out of him, but I’ll have to do it in private.

Todd: That’s right. That’s right. I still don’t know what was in his suitcase, was it? Was it his knives and his hat? 

Craig: It was all of his knives and his mask, and he’s been killing people and he’s been setting Boone up. All you know, he’s been making it seem like Boone’s been the one. He’s been framing Boone for doing all these things, and then Boone becomes night breed.

But then he comes back and then the psychiatrist is obsessed with the night breed because apparently the reason that he’s doing all this is because he’s cleansing the earth of bad people or something. I don’t know. He’s just a psychopath. But because he brings all this attention and this redneck militia to Midian, then Midian ends up getting blown up and there’s a great scene where some redneck drives his truck into the cemetery and it.

Falls down through the stories and stories of underground world, of Midian. All of that looks great. I like the setup. I just, the execution, just Houston is bad. Certain things, you know, we talked about how all of those. You, you see all of these quote unquote freaks or monsters from Midian, but it’s just the camera just leers at them for a second and then it cuts to a different scene as though you’re taking prom pictures of Yeah.

Todd: These freaks or something. Right. Right. It’s like a little tour. Yeah. You know? But that’s it. And so again, from a technical perspective, it’s all very good. Like the filmmaking is good. Right. The effects are incredible. Yes. This looks like and feels like an expensive movie without seams. It’s great. The acting is actually quite good.

Mm-hmm. The performance is, there’s dance in here. Even her singing is good. 

Craig: Yeah. Like, you know, the girlfriend singing, she sang that life. Right. Catchy song, Jean Make Get Angry. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s an earworm. It’s the 

Todd: It is, but it’s the story that is just executed poorly. There’s just, yeah. Too much.

In here. Too much is not explained and too much. That quite frankly doesn’t make sense. I don’t buy that. This psychiatrist can do all this shit. I don’t buy that. This psychiatrist even needs to set this guy up, let alone why he got fixated on this guy when he started talking about Midian, which presumably he didn’t know about before.

But if he did know about it before, that would be good information to know. Like, is this like a local legend? Is it something other people are searching for? It doesn’t help that. It really does feel like it’s just down the street and quite easy to find, and once you find that cemetery, there’s no secret code.

There’s no like mystical portal you have to go through. No, you just walk in through a door that just seems like it’s always open. Walk down a staircase. It’s completely unguarded. I don’t even understand how his girlfriend finds a place like she goes into a bar. Nearby and she meets up with that.

Somebody tells her, I don’t remember. Yeah. But then if, if it’s that well known, then it’s not really like his journey was kind of meaningless. You know? If kind of more or less, several random strangers, if you talk to the right person, can tell you where Ian is. Right. Then this whole journey of this guy learning these clues and stuff, and leading Decker there, it’s kind of flat.

This could have happened any other way. 

Craig: I think that’s where the movie. Fails, there’s rich material to mine from there. Like I can believe that the gas station guy has known about these Oh yeah. Things or whatever for a long time. And he even says like, I wanted to be one of them, but they rejected me.

That’s interesting. Yeah. The bartender in the bar kind of seems to know something. The people around there, the the woman that the girlfriend. Lori meets in the bar there, there’s stuff to mine from here. Yeah. It’s just in an hour and a half or two hours, it’s just too much. You just, you can’t establish enough.

I mean, even the, the night breed themself. That is fascinating. 

Todd: Yeah. There’s like a story behind every one of these people probably. 

Craig: Yeah. Yeah. And I’ve heard people online refer to it as like X-Men. I mean, that’s what they are basically. Yeah. Yeah. You know, there’s a bird lady who’s, you know, like sexy and can lure men in, but then she can also like shoot, shoot spikes, poison quills out and Yeah.

You know, the, the, the, it’s great designs. Like, I love the moon face, man, God, 

Todd: the woman. With the child who you said turns into smoke and then has the hypnotic boobs, uhhuh, you don’t even get that in the theatrical cut. Oh. At least in the director’s cut. You see her come in and do all that magic. Without that, you don’t actually get a sense that each of them do have a bit of a superpower to them, but like you said, it’s like, here it is, and that’s it.

They don’t band together and, and 

Craig: you don’t get enough of it. And I, I, I think that where, where the two versions differ the most is in 

Todd: the. End real quick. Can we talk about what leads up to the end? ’cause this is another one of my big beefs with the movie. Yeah. There’s a grand fight scene. It is long in that theatrical cut.

It’s huge. It’s even longer in the director’s cut where like you said, the sheriff and his redneck militia come in at the same time that the detective and the people that are have gone ahead are already there discovering things on their own at the same time that his Boone’s girlfriend has been there and has taken her tour of the night breed.

Her guided tour. Yeah. Where they’re only so happy to do that for her, for reasons I’m not quite sure. And then he’s going back to take care of her and Decker is with the cops and he’s doing his own thing, suddenly dressing up as the killer and he’s killing everybody. So there’s a lot of elements happening here.

This is a big, jumbled message. Should be this really big epic battle. And in a sense it is because there is a lot of shit happening. But like you said earlier about. How it feels like a little prom picture moment each time. I didn’t get a sense of this grand epic battle because everything was in these short snapshots.

It’s like, okay, here’s a guy who wanders into a scene with a shotgun. He gets approached by one of these creatures and they do this thing and the creature best him, or he best the creature. And then there’s another snapshot just like that. Everyone’s just running loose and there’s just all these individual scenes of these things happening.

I didn’t get a sense of like, who’s winning? Is anybody helping someone else? Are they all just running scared? We’re supposed to get this sense that Boone is bringing them together for this epic fight. Like he’s, he’s telling them like, you guys need to defend yourself. Now is the time that you need to learn that you have to fight back.

Craig: Yeah. And I don’t, 

Todd: and they all kind of are individually, but there’s no feel like, like they’re marching into this great battle against these other groups that’s quite organized. Not really. They’re all running around with there shotguns doing random shit too. Like I got bored and I shouldn’t have been, but I got bored.

Halfway through this battle scene 

Craig: in the extended cut. It’s kind of explained that all of this was destined to happen, but ultimately in, in, in both cuts, it feels like Boone’s just an asshole. They should have just killed him. 

Todd: They would’ve been better off. They were fine. They were fine Before they brought this to them.

Craig: Yeah, they were fine. They were just living in their space. Nobody was fathering them. Everything was cool. And now 

Todd: their home is destroyed. 

Craig: Yeah. That, that little twink was just living there with his little dog and everything was fine. And now he’s all burned up and a bunch of other people are dead and his dog’s dead.

They had this whole like society, his dog is not dead. That dog is fired. Oh. Is not die. I, in my mind it’s fine. Oh, gotcha. Okay. 

Todd: It’s fine. Fair enough. 

Craig: But, uh, like the big difference to me was in the end, all of these folks, you know, the night breed in the extended cut, they end up in a barn. They’re just like waiting in a, I mean, it’s in both cuts, but they’re in a barn.

And the little girl, the weird aie coyote girl is like, uh, what’s gonna happen now? And her mom, the smoke tits lady is like, we are gonna, we’re gonna wait until our savior comes. Like, I don’t think she says savior, but that’s basically what she says. And, and like Boone is gonna lead them to somewhere else.

I think in both cuts, Boone faces BME in the end and BME is like, you brought this destruction, so you must find me and rebuild, like. 

Todd: Okay. Yeah. Great prophecy. 

Craig: Yeah. This 

Todd: guy’s gonna come and destroy their home and force them to go on somewhere else. Yeah. Yeah. Oh boy. 

Craig: Gosh, I don’t know. There are differences, I think in the theatrical cut.

His friend is alive. Yes. The scalped guy, I think, doesn’t die. He dies in the extended cut. I don’t think he dies in the theatrical cut. You will notice substantial differences in the ending. Yeah. And, and in the ex. Extended cut. I think Boone and his girlfriend get out, but she, and he’s like, I have to go be their savior.

And she’s like, take me with you. And he is like, no. And she’s like, okay, fine. Bye then. And then she stabs herself and forces him to like turn her into night breed. And that’s supposed to be romantic or something. And then that’s how it ends. That’s supposed to 

Todd: be 

Craig: romantic and, and then I think in the theatrical cut, that’s not a thing.

I don’t even remember what happens with the two of them at the end. What I remember is that the bad guy sack face guy. Gets like crucified, but brought back to life. Like the priest? Yeah, by the priest too. The weird priest who splashed the boiling God water on his face. I don’t know, 

Todd: in his chest by the way, reached into his chest and poured it on his heart or something.

I don’t 

Craig: know. Something he brings sack face back to life. Like maybe there’s gonna be a sequel. Oh no. The endings are. Significantly different and worth watching. Like if, if you’re gonna watch either of these, watch either one, it doesn’t matter, you know? No. Whichever one you’re more interested in. Watch 

Todd: director’s, cut, watch director’s, cut 

Craig: fine, whatever.

But watch the ending of. Because they’re substantially different. Yeah. Yeah. And, and interesting. I I, 

Todd: I can see why people like this movie. I can’t, I can see why people got behind it. I think it’s one of those fanboy type things where you’re entranced by the idea. You’re entranced by, like you said, the promise of this mythology.

That’s just not quite well realized yet. And. You like these individual characters. You like these creatures. Yeah. You’re like a fantasy nut, you know? I get that. Sure, sure. I liked a lot of these characters and these creatures and me too. Probably like to see more of them. And I like, just like you said, this idea, but I, I just, after sitting through it, especially twice, I don’t really have much interest in diving back into that world because it doesn’t feel like there’s enough there.

Not here. A, a series would be good. A like a limited series. And there was supposed to be one, apparently in 2014 they were talking about it and it was gonna happen, and then it kind of fell through. But I think more recently it’s been picked up again and then maybe is still in development. 

Craig: I don’t know. I, I mean there, there’s definitely, again, I’m a big Clive Barker.

Fan, he’s good at world building and I think that there is structure for Good world building here. It’s just not realized well in this movie. I was surprised to see that this came out after like the first two hell raisers. I think both the first two hell raisers are better than this movie. And if I had, of course, this isn’t how it worked out, but if I had seen Hellraiser one and Hellraiser two and then this movie, I.

What is this? The same guy like, it just doesn’t come together for me for some reason. It just, I don’t know why. It just doesn’t, it’s, 

Todd: it’s too ambitious. 

Craig: Maybe. Maybe it’s too ambitious there. You know, like the moon face guy I really liked, I would’ve liked to have seen more of, oh yeah. He kind of dropped out.

I know. Even Dreadlock Darth Mall guy, like I would’ve liked to have seen more about them. I, I, I think that if I had been more invested in this mythos in this world than I could have gotten more on board with it. But there just wasn’t a 90 minute or a two hour movie just wasn’t enough to establish it for me.

And, and the stuff that I think was meant to be establishing like all of those shots in Midian of the different freaks and creatures, which. In a snapshot are interesting on their own, but when all you get are snapshots, it’s just really, yeah. It, it just didn’t, it 

Todd: just didn’t work for me. It doesn’t paint a good wider picture really.

Yeah. In that way. And I have to believe that if he had attempted this project now in the age of streaming, this would’ve a hundred percent right off the bat, been posed as a series and probably would’ve been able to take it. It would’ve taken us time with it. We’ve now established that people nowadays do have the patience for a good story.

Well told over a long episodic Yeah. Thing at this time. You know, it’s all movies. It’s just movie, movie, movie, movie, movie. You’re gonna do something big. It’s gotta be a movie. TV series are not known yet for being able to, with very few exceptions when Right. That’s like the realm of drama. Nobody imagined you could build a very long going story at a TV series.

It would just be really, really hard to do. But, uh, nowadays this is totally fitting for that kind of thing. Back then, trying to cram this all into a movie or even a trilogy, he swung for the fences, I think, and just came up short, not in the technical area. It’s a gorgeous film. I. It’s really well made.

Just the story’s just hard to sit through. 

Craig: Well, I also feel bad and I feel like I should apologize because I’m sure that there are people who saw this movie when it came out and it, you know, they love it and, and I don’t want to take away from that. Sure. You know, like, I, I am, I’m super glad if this is one of your favorite movies and I, oh, we piss on people’s cupcakes all the time on the show.

I know. 

Todd: It’s 

Craig: just, it just, it didn’t, you know, uh, I didn’t see it then. It didn’t hit me then. I’m just seeing it now for the first time and I may be being overly critical. It’s just a movie. There are so many things. I appreciate about it. I appreciate the visuals and the makeup and the special effects and like, there are cool things to see.

It’s worth seeing. Just as in, in terms of overall experience. It wasn’t for me, but I can see the comments 

Todd: now. You gotta see the cabal cut, man. 

Craig: I know the three hour and 15 minute cut. Save your 

Todd: judgment for the cabal cut. It’ll all make sense then, and you’ll 

Craig: love it. I’m gonna put that on in the background at some point.

For sure. 

Todd: Well, we do have to thank the patrons for finally bringing us to this movie that, as you said, we should have seen a long time ago. Absolutely. Especially Harry, thanks for, uh, putting that on the list for us. If you have strong feelings about this movie, definitely let us know. I would love to have a conversation about this.

Maybe you guys could even explain some of these things to us that maybe are just going right over our head. You can just find us online, chainsaw horror.com. Google two guys in a chainsaw, find our Facebook page. Our Instagram, wherever you find us, please reach out. You can also find our patreon.com/chainsaw podcast.

Consider paying five bucks a month, get even more stuff that we put out. Mini sos. So we got our book club going. We have read some Clive Barker in our book club, and I guarantee you we’ll probably read you reading more, even if you were curious about it, join the conversation. We have a Zoom meeting every week.

We also have a newsletter that you can join where we put out the the news on a mostly weekly basis, as well as let you know what we’ve got coming up, both with the Patreon and with our show. Until next time, I am Todd. And I’m Craig with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.