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By Todd Kuhns & Craig Higgins
4.7
199199 ratings
The podcast currently has 415 episodes available.
This week, we fielded a longstanding request from several of you, and brought on board one of those lucky listeners, Neal, to discuss in-depth a clever meta-horror pseudo-documentary that neither Craig nor Todd had seen before. But oh boy, did we enjoy this one! Full of fun cameos and clever takes on the slasher genre conventions, it twisted and turned in places we both expected and didn’t expect at all – with a killer ending to boot! Enjoy, folks!
Episode 414, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast
Todd: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.
Craig: And I’m Craig.
Todd: And today we are joined by a very special guest, one of our long time listeners and patrons, Neil. Neil, say hi to the people. Hey, how you doing? You’ve done a podcast, and do you have one going now, or…?
Neal: I don’t currently have one, so a number of years ago, I started a podcast with some of my best friends called “My Favorite F Words: Football, Fights, and Films”.
So we would talk about college football and the NFL, we’d talk about the UFC and boxing, and then we’d talk about the latest movies that were out. And, uh, this kind of brings me back to the movie part of that podcast. And, uh, we did it for a long time, but COVID kind of took us out of that game. And, actually, the friend who turned me on to this podcast, uh, he might recognize his name. Gilly, he’s one of your early patrons.
Clip: Mm hmm. Yeah.
Neal: He’s the one that told me about your podcast, uh, at work. And I’ve been listening to you guys for a long, long time because of that. I don’t know, I’m rambling now, but it’s been a great experience and I got a little bit of experience talking on the podcast, so.
Craig: I feel like we were at a little bit of an advantage during COVID because we had already been doing it this way.
Todd: Yeah.
Craig: And it’s been doing it remotely for so long that it really, it was no different for us.
Todd: We just had a little more time.
Craig: We had a lot of time on our hands. So
Todd: we’ve got a few episodes ahead that year.
I remember.
Craig: But cool. No, we’re really glad to have you. You’ve, uh, like, like Todd said, you’ve been around messaging us for a while. When we started taking voice messages, you were one of the first one who jumped in and we really appreciate it. We always appreciate the support. So we’re glad to have you from the first time you called in.
I said, this guy’s got a voice for the radio. This guy, this guy should, should do a podcast. So we’re really glad to have you.
Todd: And I
Craig: appreciate that.
Todd: And so he has, do you also, do you also have a radio background? I’m curious now.
Neal: I did some student media work when I was at Virginia tech in the mid 2000s. I started a student media organization because there wasn’t enough room to work for the student paper and ended up.
doing some video work, mostly video work. So I got credential to work in the sports department, got down on the field to shoot football games and interview coaches and players and stuff, got to go to a couple of bowl games, went to the NCAA tournament, interviewed some of the Yankees when they came down to play an exhibition game against our baseball team.
So I had a little bit of experience in front of and behind the camera.
Todd: That’s fantastic. Fellow journalist, huh? Just like me. There you go. I started, I did journalism in school as well. Yeah. Wow.
Neal: But all good. All good. We can stay on task.
Todd: Well, the task today I’m really enjoying because you recommended when you called us on Speakpipe, This movie that I believe you had requested before and we’ve gotten this request from a couple other listeners as well Their names are not in front of me behind the mask the rise of leslie vernon You know when you guys first brought it up I had not heard of this at all and then I kind of looked into it But I didn’t really look into it Like I didn’t go to the imdb and really research it.
I just kind of googled it and it came up And this was years ago. I thought okay. This is some quirky little Odd independent feature that probably, you know, was shot on video and released a video and, and whatever. And so, you know, maybe we’ll come around to it. Maybe we’ll check it out. You know, it sounds like a mockumentary kind of thing.
It could be fun. And then, uh, your recent message. Made us, uh, take another look at it and, uh, then I look, I was like, Oh my God, this movie has a bit of a better pedigree than I originally gave it credit for, which I found unusual because I hadn’t heard of it before. So I’d never seen this before. Like I said, I, it just completely was off my radar, this 2006 movie.
And, uh, here we are talking about this movie almost 20 years later, that feels like it could have been shot, I think, like yesterday. And it has some stars in it. Some people we know. So wow. What a treat this was just to watch it. Thank you. Thank you for recommending it. I’m just going to throw that out there.
I’m so glad
Neal: you enjoyed it. Craig, what did you think about
Craig: it? Well, it’s, this is weird. I hadn’t seen it, but the reason that I hadn’t seen it was because. I was mistaking it for something else. For some reason, I was thinking of Henry Portrait of a Serial Killer. I don’t know why that’s, yeah, that’s, I was thinking that’s what this was.
And at some point I had started watching that movie and I didn’t really get into it. And so every time I would hear of Behind the Mask, I’d be like, and I’m not really interested. So when I put it on, I was like, am I wa, this doesn’t seem familiar. Am I watching the right movie? I, I had totally mistaken it for something else.
Gosh, I don’t know. I didn’t love it, but I totally get why people like it and there are so many. Actually, maybe one of the issues that I kind of have with it, it’s a tip of the hat to Super Horror fans, but I wonder like if you’re not a super hardcore fan like us. If you would get it at all, like I thought it was really clever and funny and I loved all the little you know callbacks to different movies and stuff, but I thought if I didn’t get that like if I didn’t If I wasn’t in on that joke, I might just think it was kind of stupid
Really? I could,
Todd: well, I think I’ve talked about that. When we did Cabin in the Woods where I showed it to my dad and he hated it. He was like, I think this movie’s dumb and it’s really stupid and it’s just mean spirited and stuff. And then I realized, yeah, he doesn’t get it. He doesn’t get any of this stuff.
’cause he doesn’t know the language, you know, he doesn’t know all these conventions. And this whole movie is nothing but poking fun at conventions. So I could see, yeah, I could totally see why this, why, why this probably would go over the heads of people who had not, were not familiar with all those. What about you, Neil?
How did you first come across this one?
Neal: So I came across it probably a year or two after it came out. So it was still somewhat fresh and semi new. The whole meta horror thing had not been as pervasive in the space as it is now. So I thought it was really interesting. At the time, I was in a relationship with someone who was a theater major and was very into movies like Waiting for Guffman, Best in Show, all the Christopher Guest movies, the mockumentary style movies like that.
Love them. And, and it felt very much like a horror version of Waiting for Guffman.
Clip: Yeah.
Neal: And so I was very interested in, in the setup of it, and again, I am a Horror fan, you know, so seeing, you know, they started off and they’re talking about a world where Jason Voorhees is real. Freddy Krueger is real. You see Kane Hodder walking into Nancy’s house on elm street at the very beginning of the movie and you’re like, wait a second.
Like so for me, this is like the first experience that i’m sure people now get watching marvel movies where they’re like, oh, I recognize that. Oh, yeah, you know, so that was my experience with it at first and you’re right It didn’t get I think it came out the same weekend as Dead Silence, the ventriloquist movie,
Todd: uh,
Neal: horror movie.
Todd: James Wan, right.
Neal: Back in 2007. And so, I don’t think that there was anything really competing with it. But, you know, it didn’t make any money, it didn’t, it was a first go out for the director and most of the people in the cast. So I can see why it didn’t make a splash, but I was really disappointed that it didn’t get picked up somewhere else when streaming came out and got another run at it.
Clip: Yeah.
Neal: Yeah. Well, and I don’t
Craig: want you or the listener to get me wrong. I really liked it. I thought it was really clever. I loved the structure of it and, and thought that it was something that I don’t recall ever having seen something like this before, where they’re just taking this ridiculous idea of filming a documentary about a wannabe serial killer and like following him through that process.
I don’t recall ever seeing anything like that, but that was really clever. And then I thought that it was really clever when it switched. In the last, I don’t know, third or so to basically a more traditional Slasher. I just, I think that, gosh, I don’t know, just like a casual horror fan, just, I feel like they might not be in on the joke.
I very much was in on the joke, and I thought it was hilarious.
Clip: Um, but
Craig: I could see how somebody coming at it, not from that perspective. Background might see Leslie Vernon in his killer costume with that mask, which I love, and I hope that we’ll talk about at length. But there are certain images that I think are meant to be funny.
I just don’t know if a more general audience would be in on the joke, but I myself really enjoyed it, thought it was hilarious, really clever, really well written and obviously made by. people who know horror and who are fans of horror. There’s a lot of fan service and I’m here for it. Absolutely.
Todd: I totally agree.
You know, it’s interesting because I felt like I thought the movie took a turn, and we’ll talk about that in a second, but I was really surprised. It started out, and I was like, oh, this is cute. Oh, this is clever. This is interesting, but I’m wondering how far can they possibly take this? Because, you know, the conceit is that there is a, and this, I don’t know if I’m, if I should be confused by this, or if I’m thinking too hard about it, but, you know, this is a world where Jason and Freddie, We’re real life events, and so these people at, you know, these things actually happen, they actually exist, and they just talk about them casually.
And they make it almost sound like all this happened in a, down the street from each other. And this woman, Taylor, who’s, again, this is totally documentary style. Who’s on the camera talking about this says and now we get to Leslie Vernon a 24 years ago a boy who was murdered by being thrown over a waterfall And so then when we see Leslie Vernon on camera I’m like is this a supernaturally resurrected Leslie Vernon and we’re just going with that or is that a mythology that was constructed that Now, you know, is his cover for doing all these murders in this way?
Like, how did you guys take it?
Neal: I was, it was weird to me because when she starts off talking about how these murders took place and were real and so on and so forth, and then she’s going to interview this guy who claims to be the, the person who was thrown off the cliff, you know, as a boy. I had the same, a similar, You know, what is this?
Is this supernatural, or is he truly coming back? And if he is a wannabe serial killer, what is she doing interviewing him instead of calling the cops? But then, I thought I told you my background is in student media, and It’s you see in the super it says university news so You know college students aren’t very bright anyway when they’re just trying to get started You know, so I could see myself being a very very amateur journalist doing a lot of the same things that she was doing Including the really wooden stand up.
Clip: He knows this he says because he himself is the heir apparent to that throne of terror so long held by the likes of Voorhees, Myers, and Kruger. This man’s name is Leslie Vernon. Alright, we
got it. Good job, Taylor. Did that sound forced? I, I, too much like Diane Sawyer, uh, I’m trying to find my own voice. No, it’s
Neal: tight. And that really kind of set me in for the movie. It’s like, okay, it’s not going to be like this. It’s going to be more of a real thing. But with Leslie himself, I really like that actor.
I don’t know. He set me at ease right at the beginning. So I kind of didn’t question it a lot and just wanted to go with it.
Todd: Nathan Basile. Basil? I don’t know how you pronounce it.
Craig: Yeah, he had done some TV. This was his first film, I think. And I really liked him too, but going back to, you know, what is the backstory, you know, is it supernatural?
Is he back from the dead? Well, no. What it comes This is why I think the movie is so smart. What it comes down to is, no, it’s none of those things. Because that’s not really his backstory. It’s just a backstory that he adopted.
Todd: He’s cop. Okay. And,
Craig: you know, he says this. I don’t know exactly what he says. He says lots of kind of philosophical things about the nature of these killers or whatever, but the backstory doesn’t really matter.
You just have to have it. And it doesn’t matter if it’s true or not, as you know, as long as people hear it. And so then that makes me think, okay, well, we’re living in a world where the people just talk casually about Freddie and Jason and Chucky and all of these other killers in this world. and maybe the movie is positive, I don’t know.
All of these guys might not be who we thought they were.
Neal: You know what I’m saying? Exactly, I had heard some folks on other media around this movie talking about how hearing that Chucky was real kind of threw them off and I was thinking, well if you really pay attention to this movie, a lot of it is the work arounds to make it seem supernatural when it’s not.
You know the, the, The cardio line is one of my favorites in the movie.
Clip: You have no idea how much cardio I have to do. It’s ridiculous. Why so much? Well, you ought to be able to run like a freaking gazelle without getting winded. Plus, there’s that whole thing of Making it look like you’re walking. And everybody else is running their asses off.
Oh, right. And I gotta stay with them.
Craig: Yeah, that was
Clip: that was hilarious.
Craig: I mean, it’s such a great conceit, you know, this documentary thing of the buildup, like obviously in these horror movies, these things just happen. You, you expect them, you basically know what’s going to happen. This movie comments on the formulaic nature of it and how they’re all basically the same.
And it does it in a really funny and. Intelligent way. Gosh, but just walking you through step. You don’t think about Jason planning for days ahead. For this event. Yeah. You know, it’s meant to appear spontaneous and the suggestion that it’s not, I just think is really clever.
Todd: Yeah. Yeah.
Neal: Like what? What’s Jason doing on Saturday the 14th?
Todd: right? , right? Or Thursday, the twelfth’s. Thursday the 12th. Yeah. So
Craig: that’s a big day for him.
Todd: Wednesday the 11th. Yeah. He’s gotta set everything up and he’s gotta set it up to these like conventions that. All the people like him know, like all the serial killers know, this is what you have to do. In a way, it’s, it’s almost pretty modern, it’s like a YouTube tutorial, you know, you have these guys who think they know everything who get on YouTube and say, Alright guys, you want to like invest in the stock market, this is, I’m going to walk you step by step through how you do it.
Or, you want to do X or you want to do Y, like, this is the way, this is the way it’s done. done, you know, it’s, it’s sort of like they have this community that has just also agreed that this is the most efficient and effective way to do it. You know, you got to have the backstory. You got to plant that backstory in their head somewhere at some point, whether you fake a newspaper article like he does and lays it casually on top of some books at the library.
So she’s sure to discover it, you know, and, and then of course, you know, you need to have that. They don’t call it the final girl. What do they say? They say the Survivor girl? Survivor
Neal: girl.
Todd: Survivor girl. And I
Neal: thought that was a clever way to do it because in this world, if it’s real, they’re not talking about final girls in the context of the last one left in a movie.
Clip: Yeah. They’re
Neal: thinking of it as the person who makes it out alive from these real life events.
Craig: That is clever. I didn’t Think about that.
Todd: So we got to have the survivor girl. And then, you know, eventually this, this journalist goes and they visit one of his friends and they’re all talking about it. Like, you know, they’re chatting about sports or, you know, whatever.
Oh, you, you were sure to do that, right? Oh yeah. I remember back in 72 and like this happened with that guy and yada, yada, yada. It’s so funny and it just builds and builds. And in that way, The movie never got boring for me, because I didn’t feel like this conceit was getting played out, you know? I felt like it was just getting a new layer added, a new layer added, a new layer added.
And to go back to what you were saying earlier, Neil, starting to say, about the journalist being kind of naive. At one point, you know, you realize this girl’s in over her head, and I could see it coming, you know? I thought, okay, wait a minute. This movie is either going to go one of two ways, right? It’s going to keep the joke going and it’s just going to be a funny movie.
Or it’s going to start to get deadly serious. And what does that do? How does that going to change the tone? And how do you accommodate for these people going along with him on this killing spree? And that’s the direction they go. And they go at it full force to the point where there’s a scene in there where It almost seems like the girl real either realizes for the first time or at least as she’s been putting it to the back of her mind, but she’s forced to confront for the first time the idea that they’re going to accompany him as he executes this plan that he’s been talking about for the last 30 minutes, and he’s been walking them through.
And now she’s got this moral dilemma. And then I was thinking, Okay, this movies really get interesting now. And for me, a little uncomfortable. Well,
Neal: Yeah, yeah, yeah, there’s that moment where the crew meets, I guess I’m trying to jump it around, they meet Doc Holleran.
Todd: Oh, Doc Holleran, yeah.
Neal: Yeah, played by Robert Englund from Nightmare uh, Freddy Krueger.
What?
Todd: That was crazy. Ha ha
Neal: ha ha ha. And after they meet him, Leslie corners him outside, or meets him outside, and was like, Hey, I told I told you, don’t go talk to my survivor girl. And he gets real sinister at that point, you know, like he He kind of flips the switch for just a minute And violent not just sinister very violent.
Yeah, like very menacing And they’re like, oh this guy is actually serious He’s not just some wacko that you know Just follows serial killers and wants to be like them like this guy is actually dangerous And I think that the movie needed that to hammer home the point like this is this is going to take a turn at some Point and we really need to not get too attached to the fun side of leslie vernon You
Craig: Yeah, but I think for me that is the most compelling part of this movie is that I liked him
Clip: Yeah
Craig: Guys, spoiler alert.
He kind of dies at the end. Maybe question mark. We can talk about it later But in that moment like in his death scene, I was sad Yeah, I didn’t like I was like, oh I mean, he’s basically a nice guy.
Todd: Well, that’s kind of the brilliance of this. And I, I went back and I read, I don’t know if you guys found this interview that, uh, Nathan Basil.
Did the guy who played him back in 2013 what he mentions here He said that he had a totally different take on the character than any of the other actors who came out there He said that the way that it was written on page and the way everybody had read it This guy was just like a big mean evil guy who every now and then said some funny things and he said that you know He came in really pretty strong with the director and was like look no, man I want to take it this way and he had this affable Take on it that we see in the movie.
And I think that is kind of the key to what makes this movie work. I think. Because you, you immediately, you’re almost on his side, and you, you take him more seriously because of it, because he has an actual ethos, kind of behind what he’s doing, that disturbingly is totally not unlike the ethos of serial killers, terrorists, you know, people who are, you know.
actually out in the world doing things. He specifically calls out, like, the Unabomber.
Craig: Sure, sure, but, eh, crazy people like that, but also just anybody with ambition who doesn’t care who they leave in their wake. Right. You know what I’m saying? Like, that could be anybody. That could be business people, politicians, you know, people who are ravaging others.
It’s true. For their own personal gain. Ambition. I don’t know, maybe that, maybe that’s too, yeah.
Todd: Well, no, I mean, I agree with you. That’s, that’s part of it. But like, I think the other part of it that I thought was so compelling was that this guy really feels like he’s like, he’s like doing God’s work,
Clip: right?
Every culture, every civilization from the dawn of man has had its monsters. For good to be pitied against evil, you have to have evil. Don’t you?
Neal: And then later in the very last interactions between Leslie and the crew, before things kind of take their, their final turn,
Clip: I made a choice. I made a choice to provide a counterbalance to all those things that we hold good and pure.
You chose journalism. Okay.
Todd: That was hilarious. I laughed so hard at that line. I literally laughed out loud. And I don’t laugh out loud at much, but I laughed out loud at that line so hard.
Neal: It was delivered so earnestly too. I looked at his background. He’s from, he trained at Juilliard.
Clip: Yeah.
Neal: So he brought a lot of really unique aspects to this character and the portrayal.
Right? It doesn’t It tracks completely that he would do a completely different take on the presentation for this character, including the character of Leslie, the slasher, the monster, um, barefoot was his idea was Nathan basil’s idea. They never had a barefoot slasher killer before, and they thought that it would make him seem even more kind of otherworldly or feral.
Um, Yeah, feral, that’s a great word. Yeah. If, if he was thrown over a cliff as a boy, the whole aesthetic of the Leslie Vernon slasher Kind of brings that up. He’s wearing overalls, the mask. We can talk about the mask. It’s very childlike on the director’s commentary. I think that they call that version the boy he’s Leslie when he’s regular Nathan out there talking with Taylor and stuff, but when he goes into his killer mode, they call that the boy.
Todd: Yeah. And it’s kind of, it’s, it’s, it’s a little bit reminiscent of Jason when, when at the end of the first Friday, the 13th, when he comes out of the, you know, he’s kind of got that extended forehead and. He’s a little deformed. You know what I’m talking about? That was, that was something I thought of when I saw that, that mask.
Craig: Yeah, I don’t know, like, it just felt very kind of amorphous, like, almost like it was made out of, like, Play Doh or something. Yeah. What, I don’t know, I don’t, you probably know. Kind of Uncanny Valley. Yeah, a little bit of a porcelain Elvador Dali melting clocks kind of look to it.
Neal: But because it was great.
Oh, I’m sorry.
Craig: I just, yeah, I was just going to say, I thought that the look was great and I totally 100 percent agree with you that that is an excellent show of talent in that when he is in the mask, he’s different. And not even just in the mask. There’s a moment later where, you know, somebody takes his mask off while he’s still in killer mode, but very different, but at the same time, I totally bought it.
Like I, I believe this guy is a character. I believed him when he was talking to the crew outside and was like, look, you guys. Can go or you can stay, but I’ve got to do my thing. And this is going to end up one way or another for me, either way. And he communicated with them on that level, but then when they made the decision to stay, okay, well now I’m Leslie Vernon, the killer.
So sorry. Gosh, I don’t want to get too deep into it, but like the duality of his character. I totally bought. And I thought he did a great job portraying it.
Todd: I also don’t want to get too deep, but in a way, I felt like I could relate to it a little bit. Not that I want to go out and kill anybody, but like, all of us who are horror fans at some stage of our lives or another are questioning, Why are we into this stuff?
There’s almost sort of a duality. I feel like there’s this odd duality to my personality that I can’t quite reconcile. Like, people who meet me, people who know me, have known me for years or whatever, like, obviously they know I’m into horror, but, and, but it just, it seems very incongruous to them that this guy who, you know, wouldn’t hurt a fly is really into this dark stuff, dark music, all that kind of stuff.
And I don’t show it on my face, you know, I don’t go out wearing the t shirts, you know, and we’ve talked about it on the podcast too. What is horror? Why do we like horror? Why? Do perfectly normal and sane people enjoy watching this terrible stuff. And then we also have a lot of movies that, that mind that, right?
Like funny games and that are constantly challenging us. Like, why do you watch this stuff and considered entertainment? And in a way, I feel like in this movie, Leslie Vernon is sort of the embodiment of that, except he’s the extreme. He’s not into horror. He’s into killing people. Otherwise he thinks this is just, this is my job.
You know, this is life, this is, uh, required to restore the balance, and, and I take it very seriously, and also, you know, ha ha ha, we can joke, and I, we can be laughable, and I, and, and you like me as well. It’s very uncomfortable, in a way.
Neal: Mm hmm, totally. Totally.
Todd: You know, that’s really what the movie is up to that point, is just this continuous gag of him walking them through his preparation.
As though we were watching, you know, following Jason. And Jason was just like, okay, well, here’s where I halfway break the board so that when she runs up the stairs, she’s going to fall into this one. That’s going to slow her down. And, you know, this is what I do here. And this is how I make them discover my backstory that is.
Lots of fun.
Craig: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he it’s gosh, I mean, he is, we know from the beginning that he is the killer, but he’s also kind of at the same time, the Randy from screen, like he’s the one who’s walking you through step by step the things that we already know, you know, like any one of us. Could have walked you through the steps.
I mean, there were things that I had never thought of before. Like, I don’t know. I guess the final girl grabbing a big, long, hard weapon. Okay, sure. All right, fine. Yeah. And then I don’t even. I wrote it down, but I’m not going to scan through my notes to find it like the opposite of phallic, like, like vaginal.
Yeah, there you go. Like you have to have that imagery to like the, the final girl has to go through that. You know, like she has to be reborn as this new strong person. Okay. Like I don’t know that I’ve ever thought about it that closely, but the way that he lays out the formula is accurate. And I thought it was great, but what I was really kind of more interested in, in that part, aside from the fact that he was very charismatic and I was a big fan of his was the documentary side of it, which you guys have kind of hinted at a little bit, but I’m really interested to hear specifically you guys perspective because this Taylor girl.
It’s her. She’s the one in front of the camera. And then she’s got like three guys behind her and you barely see them at all until the last third, when they get in front of the camera, but she’s played by Angela Goethals. Did you guys recognize her from anything? Home Alone, perhaps? Ha ha ha
Neal: ha ha! Yeah, that was, that was great.
She has an interesting look, and I was like, I’ve seen this girl somewhere before, and it wasn’t until I knew immediately who it
Todd: was. This looks like an older, not even an older version of her. Like, just somebody, like, blew her face up and made her, like, into a
Craig: twenty something. In, in, in my house, like, Alan and, uh, My sister and I too, because my sister and I grew up watching it.
We will say to each other at least a couple of times a year. You know what the French say? Les incompetants.
So that was a little distracting. However, I loved the concept of them filming this documentary, but Todd, I feel like you and I briefly talked about it when we talked about creep 400 episodes ago,
Todd: um, literally
Craig: how like, okay. So, so you get into this and you’re a journalist and by nature of being a journalist, you are meant to be an observer.
You are not meant to be. An active participant, right? I’m a little confused because she knew this guy wanted to be like the next Jason or Freddy or whatever. So she knew his ultimate objective was to kill people. At what point was she no longer going to participate in that? Because it seemed like it caught her by surprise
Todd: near the end.
I don’t know, how do you interpret that? I think I said it earlier, the way I interpreted it was, it was probably always an uncomfortable question that she was constantly pushing to the back of her, of her head, and not really willing to face until that moment came, just because, you know, she’s a little naive.
But I don’t know, Neil?
Neal: Yeah, I thought she was going at it from the perspective of, he’s obviously not somebody that came back from the dead. He’s interested in these real life killers and stuff, and he claims to be the next in line for their legacy. But, he can’t be serious if he’s calling me to showcase this stuff, so let’s see what he, what he says.
Insight he can provide on this and maybe We’re doing some good in that we can learn some things that almost like profiling I guess, you know Here’s a look inside the mind of a person who would want to do these kind of things and if we can bring that to Light maybe we can help save some lives or something.
That’s that’s the best I can square it in my head But at the same time time, like I said, she’s A college journalist with her college journalist buddies, and I’ve done some really dumb Look on location shoots and yeah trying to trying to do more than I’ve got any business and experience trying to do So, yeah, that’s the best I can square it.
So
Todd: you’re thinking she didn’t ultimately think he was going to actually start to go through with it.
Neal: Yeah, I thought she was waiting for the twist too. Like, okay, he’s telling me all of this stuff, but he can’t possibly be serious.
Craig: He seems like a really nice guy. Right.
Neal: Yeah, he’s disarming in that way. And she just gets Sucked into his all his field.
Clip: Yeah,
Craig: I can’t imagine
Neal: they like him too.
Craig: Yeah, I can imagine getting sucked in Ultimately, it’s not really just her like she has a three man crew. So Yes, he’s a strong guy, but she’s not by herself. So there’s not that physical threat and he just so is so Endearing and I thought that that also extended When he basically took her home to meet his parents.
They’re not his parents. They’re just You This older couple that he knows, but it’s like his mentor. Yeah. Yeah. Is that Eugene? Is that what his name
Neal: is
Craig: supposed to be? And, okay guys, I’m sure you read this. It’s no surprise to you. If this is true that he was supposed to be Billy from Black Christmas, I’m not sure why they didn’t call that out.
They called everything out.
Neal: Yeah, they wrote it as that. And then they thought that that would probably be a bridge, a bridge too far, so they didn’t. They, they allude to it, but they don’t confirm it. It’s, it’s just funny to me that that’s a bridge too far, like.
Clip: Right?
Neal: Okay. I don’t know, maybe there’s, maybe there was some intellectual property that they could Yeah, that could, yeah.
I don’t know. Sure, sure. Maybe, yeah. I thought that Scott Wilson character, Eugene, really. Helped add another layer and grounds the movie and makes it feel like yeah, this actually could it helps flesh out the universe
Clip: Yeah, oh gosh,
Neal: it lends credence to These things happening. Yeah, they talk about Freddy.
They talk about Jason, but here’s a guy who also Participated in that world of, of killing, made it out, and he is living a life afterwards. And his wife, Jamie,
Todd: apparently
Neal: was his survivor girl. Okay, I wasn’t sure. Oh
Craig: really? I didn’t catch that. I thought that was alluded to, like I thought that at some point some, they had some kind of quip about chasing, like, well you finally caught me, or something like that.
Neal: Yeah, Taylor asks, how do you survive an encounter with you guys? And he says, you know, You, you pick a spot as far away as you can and you run towards it and you don’t stop running until you see daylight. And Jamie kind of. Elbows him in the ribs and it’s like, I was pretty fast, wasn’t I? And, and he was like, yeah, and you caught me or some, or one of them says, yeah, you caught me.
So it kind of implies that she was, uh,
Todd: being chased by him at some point. I love that. Over my head completely.
Craig: I, I, I kinda caught it. I thought that that’s what it must be because she, she doesn’t seem a lot younger than him, but she seems a little bit and she’s very beautiful. Gosh. Yes. Yeah. She’s she’s gorgeous.
But before that, before he says something about picking a spot and running, they’re both giving advice and her advice is don’t hang out with virgins.
I thought that was so funny. And like, if, if you’re hanging out with the Virgin, get some. Somebody in her pants or get out of there.
Neal: That’s just good life advice.
Craig: Oh my gosh. And there were tons. Uh, seriously, if, if, if you are a fan of horror at all, really, you really should watch this movie because it’s a really, really clever horror comedy.
And I’m not trying to wrap up cause there’s still a million things. I want to talk about the first one that comes to mind. I’m sorry, Neil. This is me rambling again. It’s been the only thing that’s been on my mind since we started talking. And I insist that I get it out that Zelda Rubinstein is in this movie.
So great.
Todd: Her last movie before she died. What a
Craig: treasure.
Neal: She’s great. Like, she instantly, she nails her part. Her job is to communicate the lore, to help bring the survivor girl into the world that Leslie is trying to create. And she does it beautifully. It’s the first time we see Leslie in the mask.
Holloran appears and has any kind of meaningful interaction. It’s just that there’s so much that happens within that scene. It’s great.
Craig: And it’s set up so well, like we know how it’s going to be set up because Leslie explains it to us, like, I’m going to plant this and then she’s going to find it. And then she’s going to talk to the librarian and the librarian is going to tell her the story, but then she’s going to say, Oh, don’t worry.
It’s just a story. And, and then that’s exactly what happens. with Zelda Rubenstein. Gosh, like I, I remember hearing when she passed away, but it’s been a long time ago. It was probably before we started the podcast. Otherwise we definitely would have done a tribute. Uh, I just, she is so funny to me. And of course I love her in the poltergeist movies.
She was in like, 16 candles to, I think, oh, Teen Witch. Don’t want to forget Teen Witch. Teen Witch. But also here, like, she’s just being Zelda Rubenstein. Like, she’s being Tangina from Poltergeist. And that was a huge highlight for me. She gives you everything you
Neal: want from an appearance from her.
Craig: Yeah.
Exactly. Exactly. Except, I feel like I blinked and I missed when he killed her. Did he cut her
Neal: throat? So, the cut, the editing is weird there. It, it almost feels like maybe she might have fainted. I don’t know. Yeah, I wasn’t sure. Because there was no consequence after that. Like, if you think, if they killed the librarian, there’d be, like, that’s where Taylor and her crew would be like, Oh wait, this is real.
Craig: And Kelly seems fine after it, like it’s,
Neal: she gets over it really quick. The whole universe didn’t seem to mourn the loss of Zelda very
Clip: much.
Neal: And I think her name in the movie was Miss Collinwood, which is the castle from Dark Shadows. Like, I’m telling you, like, real deep horror trivia. They, the writers of this inserted stuff all over the place that were not I
Craig: caught only a few of them.
I caught when there were some girls in, like, baptismal gowns doing jump rope in the
Neal: back. I’m glad you saw that in the background
Craig: of the, uh, college
Neal: scene.
Todd: Right at the beginning.
Craig: I noticed that. I mean, the ones in the very beginning are, you know, Like, they call them out. Like, they specifically show you the house on Elm Street.
They specifically show you Haddonfield. They specif It’s not like it’s clever, but there are things There are other ones that I read about that I definitely didn’t see. Like, I guess in Eugene’s house on a table, there’s a lament configuration from Hellraiser. Certainly did not see that.
Neal: Yep, it looks like a tissue box sitting on the, uh, table.
Craig: Were
Neal: there,
Craig: were there
Neal: others
Craig: that, cause I love that
Neal: stuff. Yeah the turtles are named Zoe and Chance. Sorry, Zoe and Church, which are the pets from Pet Sematary 1 and 2. Right,
Clip: right,
Neal: right. Yeah, so there’s stuff like that just sprinkled throughout. Doc Halloran is named after Dick Halloran from
Clip: The Shining.
Oh yeah, right.
Neal: When Leslie’s putting on his makeup, the flame retardant makeup. Where they show that scene he’s sitting in front of the mirror, and he’s talking to Taylor about it. He makes a face that is an homage to Donald Sutherland in Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Clip: Oh,
Neal: I didn’t guess that one.
Clip: Yeah, yeah,
Neal: he makes the same face that he make that Donald Sutherland makes when he points and he’s, you know, revealed himself as a pod person.
So there’s there’s stuff throughout that just if if you’re looking for it, or if you’re like me and just a complete weirdo about it, you seek those out and catch them. So I’m glad some of that stuff actually, like, Still came across like the kids, the nightmare kids doing the jump rope in the background.
Oh, I loved
Craig: it. I, I loved that. And, and for the most part, I mean, again, points to make sure we talk about, we may as well do it now. You mentioned Doc Halloran played by Robert England, like, yes. How, I don’t know. I didn’t do enough research on like, how did this director get. All of these icons, you’ve got Freddy Krueger, you’ve got Jason Voorhees, you’ve got Tangina.
I know Tangine is not as big a get but like, seriously, Robert England. I kind of wish that they had done more with him. I thought it was hilarious what they did. I thought that it was hilarious that they made him a Dr. Loomis clone.
Clip: You know where he is, don’t you? He’s not who you think he is. What’s he calling himself now?
Leslie Vernon? How perfect. I, I, I don’t know. I don’t know who that is. His name is Leslie Mancuso. From Reno, Nevada. You have no idea who you’re dealing
Craig: with. That was great. I wish he would maybe have been a little bit more in it, but still he’s behind the scenes. I loved that.
Neal: Yeah, he’s the ahab That was such a great Convention that they played on there, right?
You know every serial killer needs somebody to come after him It legitimizes their work and it it really kind of adds another layer to it But uh, so there’s a great behind the scenes interview with robert englund where he talks about the How he came across this script and he says, you know, when you’ve been in the business as long as I have, you get sent scripts all the time.
Some of them are good. Some of them are not so good. And I was watching, I was reading this one in the middle of the evening, got late night TV on my wife is cooking dinner or whatever. And next thing you know, it’s two o’clock in the morning. I’m still reading it and I couldn’t put it down. So he, he loved the script and it’s because of him that they got Scott Wilson.
And so, Uh, the Eugene character, uh, he called him up and said, you’ve got to come and do this. You’d be perfect for it. And Wilson, same deal. He, he thinks that they should have turned this into a play and done this on the road.
Todd: Oh, it’s interesting.
Craig: Well, it’s, it’s definitely, I don’t know if I could see it on stage, especially the last act, which we haven’t really talked a lot about, but I, the first part, especially I could see how it could be a play because it feels very much like a character study.
It feels a lot like creep. Frankly, except for instead of just one guy with a camera following a weirdo around. It’s a crew of people following a weirdo around and endearing weirdo. But, but then the third act I thought was. I thought that that was exactly, you know, he, it played out exactly as he said it would.
Mostly are we to believe that Leslie knew that Taylor was the final girl from the beginning? Cause if so, that’s pretty impressive, I guess.
Neal: Yeah, I think, I think from the very beginning he knew, he knew all of it was going to play out exactly that way, including Taylor. Her crew having the change of heart and trying to help save the kids instead of participate in the event.
I
Craig: hope that you’re right and I believe that you are because I think that that’s the most interesting way to take the story. And again, I know I’ve already mentioned it, but going back to that conversation where they have shown I think a little bit of reluctance and he says to them, look, you guys should leave.
I’ve got to do what I got to do. Like, I, I feel like he gives them an out.
Todd: Yeah. Well, he kind of gives each one of them like a farewell. Yeah. He’s kind of very intentional about it.
Craig: Well, and I, and I think that that that’s fair. Like they know who he is. They know what he’s going to do. And if they try to interfere.
And I think that he was a good, a good bro for giving him a heads up. He, he,
Neal: he wished them luck and then one of the cameramen says, you too.
Todd: And then like a boss, Taylor jumps in the room with him and they’re, and I mean, I’m just sitting here thinking, how are they going to stay out of the way while he does this? I was just so into the movie at this point because it, I did not expect it to go this far and it started to get really disturbing because now this team is here going to ostensibly, well, are they going to tape these murders, you know, how are they going to cut it into their documentary?
Like, these are some real actual moral dilemmas here that they’re going on. And so they’re in the room next door while like two of the people from downstairs or upstairs screwing in the bedroom. Um, And he goes in and hack, hack, hack, and you hear it all happen off screen. Taylor’s obviously disturbed and the guy, I think one of the guys turns to her and goes, Oh shit, this is really happening.
Should I be getting any of this?
Oh my God.
Neal: Yeah. Good job, cameraman. I don’t know if that was Doug or Todd,
Todd: but,
Neal: uh,
Todd: I appreciated that there was still some levity to this, but it was getting pretty serious and I was disturbed and I was really into it. And now I’m thinking, okay, are they going to be in danger if they try to interfere? What happens if they pop their cameras in and then it startles one of the other people and turns them onto Leslie?
Leslie gets angry and then turns on them. You know, there’s just so many different ways this could go. And one of the things that the film does, which I think is really, really smart, is it switches. Suddenly, when it becomes about the journalists and everything, we’re in movie mode. There’s like documentary mode, where everything’s through the camera, and the cameramen are behind, and it looks, you know, shot on video, and the whole nine yards, and shaky cam.
But then, there are a couple moments. First, early on, there are just a couple of them. But as soon as we’ve had this switch and when it’s about the journalist, now the movie looks like a slasher movie. It’s lit like a slasher movie. It, the cinematography is like a slasher movie. And now we’re watching
Craig: it.
Let me jump in just really quick with an example. My favorite example of that was when they were showing that archway outdoors, it was the opposite of phallic imagery, like the outdoor that she had to walk. Okay. Yeah. So, so when they. Film it through the documentary. Of course, it’s very beautiful. It’s a beautiful set piece.
But then later when it’s not the documentary anymore in the film, the lighting, it looks like pet cemetery or something like, so yes, I think that’s very, very clever filmmaking that I mentioned earlier, the structure, but just the difference between the documentary feel and then the film. feel of the end.
Todd: It upped the production value of this movie tremendously. Like up to those moments, you know, it just sort of seemed like this was another found footage type movie shot on a low budget. But then when it gets into the movie thing, it looks, it looks just as slick as any slasher movie from the nineties or early 2000s.
It looks just like it. And so I thought it gave the movie a lot of cred too. You know what I mean?
Neal: I think so. I, I, I totally get that. The use of two. Cameramen to document what was happening was also kind of a really good cheater convention, I guess. They said that one of the cameramen would intentionally shoot kind of dutch style with the the angles and stuff and the other one Would shoot more straight on so you could get alternate angles based on which cameraman was shooting it But then you also It didn’t just feel like a single cam the whole way through, like you could get those cuts in between from different perspectives of the same action that you would get from a normal movie, but then it would look much better when they cut to that cinematic version of the film.
And there’s no score on the documentary parts, but anytime they do, like Leslie, Talking through a hypothetical scenario. Those parts would have a score to it when they did the opening scene
Clip: With
Neal: the girl throwing the trash away in the dumpster that part has some music laid over it So it really kind of helps get you.
All right here. We’re watching the movie here. We’re watching the documentary here. We’re watching the movie
Todd: Yeah, it was I didn’t really score, but you’re right. I mean it was definitely there. Yeah, you’re right
Neal: Yeah for a first time director, I think they they really got the most out of their money for this
Todd: I think so, too.
I was super I
Neal: do too
Craig: This happens all the time, but like, uh, I watch a movie and I’m like, I’m not really exactly sure how I feel about it. And then I sit down and talk about it. And here I am an hour later. I’m like, no, it’s great. You should watch it.
It’s great. There’s so much going on. There’s so many good things about it, but I agree with you. I’m not, I don’t know. I didn’t hear of it either. And I usually have. My eye on the industry, I feel like I kind of have my finger on the pulse. What I, what I have heard is, you know, in the years since it’s come out, it definitely has a following.
Like there are people out there who are big fans of this movie and are like, watch this movie. And I only didn’t because I mistook it. But also I knew when it was over. Okay. So there’s a setup for the ending. It all ends with a cider press,
Todd: an apple cider press. We knew that was coming and
Craig: the final girl and the bad guy with his head in the cider press.
But again, like that was an emotional scene for me. Like it was just a closeup on his face. Face, what does he say? He says something I’m, so
Neal: glad you were the one or something or I just knew you were going to be the one
Craig: You
Neal: guys it’s a love story
They have so many Tight, emotional, like, fleeting moments where you’re like, Oh, these two are into each other. And then, and then it, And then the things move.
Todd: But, I’ve got a question for you guys on this, on this last bit. Like, do you think that was part of his preparation too? That he wouldn’t actually be killed by the Cider Press?
Or was he killed by the Cider Press? The way I interpret it, because he points out this, Oh yeah, I’ve got big plans for the Cider Press at the end. And assuming everything went according to his plan, She kills him in the Cider Press, Or thinks she kills him in the Cider Press, Because later during the And then burns him up, burns up Oh, burns up the Yeah, and then sets fire to everything, right?
Which is classic. So Then, as you said earlier, Craig, there’s a post credits scene where his body is pulled out and the guy who’s getting ready to do the autopsy or whatever, prep the body, his back is turned to him, and just as the credits are about to end, you see him sit up, which we all saw coming, it follows the convention, but it makes me think that maybe, again, all of the stuff that he’s been doing has been to follow convention, so I wondered if, too, he had prepared himself to fake his death and resurrect himself again.
Did you guys think that at all?
Neal: I did, and it was because of him mentioning, when he was putting on the makeup, that it was a mixture of Preparation H and his own homemade fire retardant.
Craig: Yes! Right!
Neal: So he knew that he was going to get burnt up at some point. And so he had planned for that and then This is not in the movie.
This is something I saw later But either the director or one of the producers posted on tiktok or something how? Leslie faked his death.
Clip: Oh while
Neal: he’s how while he’s in the cider press it cuts to a Underneath the cider press, his hand reaches under and grabs a nutcracker and cracks a walnut at the same time that Taylor spins the thing.
So, she doesn’t go back to check. The original intent was the mask would shatter under the weight of the thing, pressing on him. But they, this little clip, it’s like a 15 second clip, but it shows, you know, him Getting his head put into the cider press her twisting twisting and then it cuts to this shot of his hand reaching under Grabbing this walnut cracker and then she does the final spin and you hear the crunch and then it cuts away Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Craig: Man That’s funny
Clip: Oh,
Craig: it is really clever.
I was just under the impression. Cause he says at one point, this night’s going to end one of three ways. Like either I’m going to be on the run or I’m going to be on death row or I’m going to be dead or something like that. So I think that he was prepared for. He knew that he might be bested. And I felt like in that moment at the end, he was like, well, if this is the way that it was going to happen, I’m glad it was you like, it’s even though, you know, it’s, it’s still, even for him, a satisfying ending now, whether or not he planned it or whether or not he knew that he would rise again, I mean, he probably thought he might cause they always do, or maybe, maybe they always have a nutcracker or Something that fakes their death.
I don’t know, but
Neal: I was gonna say I heard that they had actually shot a different ending where Taylor is on Trial for the events that happened on that night.
Clip: Oh
Neal: Uh, because, you know, she’s the only one, she’s the primary survivor. Somebody had to do all of these murders and stuff, so she’s on, on trial, but they, they ended up not keeping it because they didn’t have enough people.
They wanted the courtroom to really feel full and stuff, but the way they had shot it was that Taylor’s on trial. They’ve got a live feed of the coroner’s office, the feed that we see. And Doc Halloran bursts in and it’s like, you guys don’t know what you’re doing. He’s planned this the whole time. This is what he wants.
He needs an audience. He needs an audience. And that’s when you see him sit up
Clip: Take out
Neal: the coroner and then swipe the camera and then that’s how the movie ends That would have been kind of glad they didn’t go with that It’s I mean, it’s cool, but i’m glad they didn’t go with that. I think that you can actually see a plot Like, two seconds of that, in one of the trailers, you see Robert Englund yelling, He needs an audience!
Clip: Um,
Neal: it’s in one, one trailer that’s still floating around out there. But they said they didn’t keep it because they couldn’t have enough people to make the courtroom look believable. If he’s terrorized this whole town, you, you would probably want. Or if somebody has terrorized this whole town and is using the town’s legend as a backdrop for committing a bunch of murders, you’d think that the courtroom would be fully
Todd: packed up.
I mean, the reason I think it would be cool is because I was kind of waiting for the Doc Hallorann character to come back in and do something at the end, you know, kind of like in Halloween, you know, where he walks out. Michael Myers’s body is suddenly not there. You know, I thought there would be some moment anyway for him to kind of have a last thing instead of well, he’s alive and he kind of limps away and then that’s the last you see of him.
Craig: His whole role is very much a cameo. He has maybe, what, one or two lines. I don’t know. Still happy
Neal: to see him. Still fun. Yeah, and he’s why I made the suggestion, because he just got his star on the Walk of Fame.
Todd: That’s right! Yeah. Well deserved. Very well deserved, that star. What
Neal: did you think of the use of, uh, Psycho Killer over the final credits?
Clip: I
Neal: loved it. What a perfect
Clip: song.
Neal: I have had that in my head. All week because of this, I can’t stop playing it and humming it. Well, the
Todd: movie sets itself up for a sequel and supposedly they, they did write script, but what I read, and I don’t remember how long ago this was, um, the director just kind of reevaluated and said, look, if we were to shoot this, a sequel to this, obviously we want the right script and the sequel script that we already wrote.
It’s too dated. by now because I don’t know, it’s kind of like more going to be referencing the torture porn era and the found footage and stuff like that. And that’s so far behind us now that I think they were like, that would, that would feel too dated if we did that now. Thankfully, the slasher thing is not still not dated, right?
Like that seems like pretty evergreen. So this movie, like I said, it feels like it could have been shot yesterday. And the reason why I like and I recommend it is because I do get a little tired of the meta horror movies. Just because I get it now, you know, like how many ways can you tell me the same things?
You know, how many ways can you rattle off the conventions to me and then ha ha I see that you subvert them Or something like that This movie just does it in a totally different way I’ve never seen and in a way that you know from that perspective of us being behind the the killer in this very mundane Sort of way And also him being so affable and all that and the layers that we’ve just kind of brought up in in here I just Thought this movie was so clever and so fun.
I was just with it the whole time and I loved it and I can’t believe I hadn’t seen it and I can’t believe that the reason I hadn’t seen it is not popular. People don’t know about it. What the hell? How do people not know about this movie? So my recommendation is you guys are listening to this podcast.
You’re as big a horror fan as we are. You are going to be the people who are going to eat this up and it’s going to be a very different kind of metal horror than you’ve seen before. You got to give it a try and you got to go out and watch it. It’s great.
Neal: Yep. You can find it on YouTube. The whole movie streaming.
Todd: That’s where we watch it. Yeah, good quality. We’re all about free.
Neal: Good quality. Perfect quality. Even the the gratuitous boob shot in there is intact.
Craig: I’m so glad you brought it up. It was on my list. I think he just crossed off the page.
Neal: I want to make sure that that got mentioned because I don’t want anybody to be caught off guard.
Craig: Oh god and the like it comments on itself like oh my god isn’t that a little gratuitous as she’s popping her nipples out.
Oh, so good. So good. Good job. Good job. No, I’m,
Neal: I’m so You should,
Craig: you should host a
Neal: podcast. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Maybe I’ll bring one back at some point. You know, I’m happy to come on and chat with you guys at any time. If you got other movies and you just feel you want to break things up a little bit.
Feel free, give me a call. I will Oh
Craig: man, it was a great time. It’s been a pleasure having you on
Neal: the show. Thank you guys so much, and thank you for all the years of great content. Thank you for doing my suggestions. You guys got me with Once Bitten, and Anna and the Apocalypse, and this is probably the third or fourth suggestion that I’ve gotten.
given you guys, that you guys have done. So I can’t say enough how much I appreciate it.
Todd: Wow. That’s true. Neil’s been feeding the fire more than I remember.
Craig: I remember, I, I remember how excited Todd and I were about Anna and the Apocalypse, like neither of us We’re like, holy
Neal: shit!
Craig: Why have
Todd: we not heard this one before?
Neal: It’s like Christmas movie, horror movie, musical. Come on now, how has this not been done before?
Todd: You’re our research wing. Oh
Neal: I will, I’ll shoot you guys whatever I can think of that would be a fun watch and a fun conversation.
Todd: Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Neil. And thank you all your listeners out there for joining us for yet another week. We really appreciate each and every one of you. If you want to leave us a message like Neil did, all you’ve got to do is go to our website, ChainsawHorror. com And there’s a little link at the top that says talk to us.
You can leave us a quick message. You don’t have to download any special software or anything like that. And, uh, and that’ll shoot right to us. And we, we listen to those. We respond to those. We love hearing from you in whatever form that takes. You can also leave us a message on any one of our places. Uh, just two guys in a chainsaw podcast.
We’ll take you to our website where there’s a comment section. We’ll take you to our Facebook page where we post stuff up on Instagram. Also, our Patreon, patreon. com slash, uh, Chainsaw Podcast. If you go there, you will also have a chance to get behind the scenes like Neil has himself and become part of the crew.
Chat, chat back there, uh, vote on the requests that we have coming up. A lot of good stuff going on behind the scenes. Please consider supporting us back there as well. Until next time, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig. And I’m Neil. With Two Guys and a Chainsaw
Halloween 2024 is at hand! No better film for this week than this family-friendly Netflix release. It’s dumb and corny and predictable, but the SFX are fantastic, it’s adequately scary-yet-kid-friendly, and just chock-full of Halloween fun.
New kid moves into a new town and unleashes ancient magic from an artifact she found in the attic of her historic house. Sound familiar? Despite an under-utilized cast of stars, groan-worthy cliches and flat jokes, there’s some easygoing magic at work here that will appeal to kids and adults alike who can handle the surprisingly scary Halloween decorations that come to life as fodder for Marlon Wayans’ chainsaw.
The Curse of Bridge Hollow (2022)
Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.
Craig: And I’m Craig.
Todd: Happy Halloween!
Craig: It’s your Halloween voice again. Happy Halloween to you.
Todd: It’s more of a slogan than a voice. It only says those words.
Craig: Next year. Next year you can monologue or something. I don’t know. Yeah, it’s exciting.
Honestly, like, I love Christmas. Don’t get me wrong, and we’ll totally celebrate Christmas too, but I think that I feel more about Halloween the way most people feel about Christmas. Like, it’s my favorite. Holiday. I just love everything about it. Same here. And I love that my neighbors across the street have like a whole geta like they’ve got like a, a graveyard set up and they’ve got skeletons walking skeleton dogs and they’ve The Nightmare Before Christmas projection on their house.
Todd: Oh nice. You do live in a neighborhood and a town, really, that, that still hasn’t, you know, still put some effort into, you know, decorating the house, I assume, you know, you get some trick or treaters here and there, but I think the last Halloween I had there, I maybe had three. Five groups of trick or treaters come to the door all night long, and I was super depressed.
Craig: Yeah, trick or treating is not as much a thing anymore. I think that some Gen Xers, you know, are still trying to hang on to it for their kids, but it’s mostly, it’s mostly trunk or treats, which is nice, but it’s not the same.
Todd: You know, I’m double irritated at the trunk or treat. Number one, it’s lame compared to the real deal.
And number two, it’s sort of born out of this false narrative that trick or treating is dangerous. I
Craig: know, I know. We talk about this all the time. We are so precious about kids these days. And I get it, I get it. You gotta make sure your kids are safe. But we managed to survive somehow. Anyway, whatever. Yeah.
I love Halloween. Yes. And you’re right, in, in my town, first of all, my neighborhood is very residential. My house especially is on a street that’s like an interior street. Like, there’s no reason for you to be on my street unless you live on it.
Todd: Yeah, so get off my lawn.
Craig: I just mean practically. Right, I know what
Todd: you
Craig: mean. Hahaha. So there’s, there’s very little traffic and, and my neighborhood is, uh, You know, middle class families and yeah, people are still really into it. The people across the street from me have the best display. Most people just put out a lot of inflatables.
I like the spirit of inflatables, but
Todd: it’s lazy. It feels lazy.
Craig: I like, I appreciate the spirit, folks. I really, really do. Well,
Todd: and I suppose people appreciate the saving of, uh, space, you know?
Craig: Yeah.
Todd: My god. I, I, seriously, there used to be so much of my garage devoted just to Halloween decorations that were sitting there for most of the year.
Craig: I know, and we don’t do it at all because, for that exact reason, we just don’t have the space to store the stuff. Ugh, unfortunate. But anyway. Yeah, so I’m glad that we are doing, I don’t remember exactly how it worked out that we ended up doing this for the Halloween
Todd: episode. I put it down that way because this felt like it would probably be the most Halloween of the movies that we did this month, and uh, I kind of think it is.
Craig: Yeah, me too. And that’s the thing that I love the most about it. So the movie that we’re doing is 2022’s The Curse of Bridge Hollow. It’s a Netflix original, and that’s where I watched it. Alan and I watched it last year, because we had never seen it before. And I had heard good things about it. And we both liked it.
I remember liking it a lot. And it’s so Halloween y, like, that’s my favorite thing about it. Like this is a movie about Halloween and everything in it is about Halloween. And it’s, it’s fun. It’s not the best movie I’ve ever seen. I don’t love it as much as I love The Worst Witch.
Clip: I mean, it’s no The Worst Witch.
You’re
Todd: not going to gush over this like you did The Worst Witch. Well, first of all, there’s no music in this one. You don’t have any songs to sing to us. That’s going to be the saddest part of this.
Craig: That’s really not all that sad. I listened back to that and, oh boy, that was something. You guys
Todd: were done dirty by the delay, you know, there’s the natural delay between the two of you, but you, you would have been singing in sweet, sweet harmony, like chorus girls and boys.
I know.
Craig: I know.
Todd: Otherwise, just like you did when you were children.
Craig: I actually really like a lot of things about this movie. It’s a fun story. The thing that kind of perplexes me is I’m not exactly sure who the target audience, because. It feels very much coded for children. Yes. But I think that many average children who are not like you and me might get really scared.
Like, and the effects are so good. And I’m not saying they’re brilliant, but they’re so good that I think that they might be really scary for kids. Like, this stuff looks real.
Todd: Yeah, and that was one thing that, you know, I’m always watching movies like this thinking, Oh, would this be something I could watch with my son?
No. Not yet. Not yet. I don’t think so. He’s seven and he’s a little touchy about these things. He definitely couldn’t see this yet. And that was what I was thinking. I was like, you know, for what I was imagining to be and what, you know, Otherwise, sort of felt like a, oh, light hearted, breezy, lower budget movie with a very cookie cutter type script and whatnot to throw out at Halloween time like you would throw together one of these Hallmark Lifetime Christmas movies, you know?
There was a lot of care put into it. In the special effects department. It’s actually really, really good. I mean, it’s Hollywood blockbuster style, good special effects. Even when the mix of practical and the computer generated, it’s seamless. And the computer generated doesn’t look cheap at all. To the point where you can’t even tell sometimes when You’re what you’re looking at his computer generator, whether it’s practical I just think it’s that well done and that more than anything else about this movie really blew me away I was like gosh.
This is a nice movie to watch it. It looks good. It does the effects are great There’s nothing distracting in there, you know in that regard. I thought it was a fun ride
Craig: There’s always something going on. Like it’s just scene after scene after scene with new things happening. And it’s a very simple conceit that we’ll get to in just a second.
But you said you wouldn’t show it to your seven year old son. I wouldn’t show it to my 16 year old nephew. He is, he doesn’t like scary stuff in general, but he’s particularly freaked out by zombies and there are zombies in this movie and they are Straight out of a grown up horror movie like yeah, they don’t pull any punches as I guess is what I’m saying Yeah, when it comes to the scary stuff, and there’s definitely silly stuff too But when it comes to the scary stuff, they don’t pull any punches and they go hard.
There’s there’s really scary zombies and really scary clowns
Todd: Yeah, evil clowns with real axes and machetes, swinging them around, uh, doing damage to, you know, the set. I was surprised at how scary those, those things were. And everything in here glows with red eyes. And, I don’t know, you know, a skeleton is ten times more scary when it’s got red eyes burning at you.
So, yeah, it’s like they just amped everything up. And then I thought the final villain as well, all of it looked very spooky. In that regard It was cool that they didn’t pull any punches in that department. That being said, nobody dies in this movie. And you know it’s gonna be a movie like that, right?
Craig: Oh, sure.
Sure.
Todd: And I love the idea that the way they kept it so PG. I think it’s technically TV 14. But same difference, really. The way they kept it that way is, almost all of the monsters in this movie are actually Halloween decorations come to life. Ha ha ha! Right! Which is a really super smart way of avoiding gore!
Right! When they knock these things down, or they chop their heads off, or they hack them in two, or one particularly interesting chainsaw scene. You know, it’s just stuffing that’s coming out of them, or, you know. Bits of cardboard and wood. They just
Craig: break, right? Yeah, they just
Todd: break and they fall to the ground.
And so, on the one hand, you know, it’s like, the danger is real. On the other hand, in the back of my mind, I keep going, but they’re still just animated decorations. These aren’t actual zombies from hell, which happens at one point when a character gets bit by one of them and he starts freaking out like,
Clip: I’ll tell you what happened here!
One of these zombies just bit me! Huh? Oh, God. Does that mean I’m gonna turn into one of them? Is that how this works? You can’t let me turn. You gotta shoot me. Blow my head off, man. What? No, I’m not gonna shoot you. I don’t wanna turn into a zombie! You’re not gonna turn into a zombie! Zombies are fictional creations, okay?
Dead bodies don’t have functioning nervous systems, which means they can’t move. Basic biology. I didn’t understand a single word you just said. Maybe I should handcuff myself to the porch just in case, huh? Or You can get a tetanus shot. Yeah, good call Bill Nye the Science Guy.
Todd: Burn. So it even provided a little bit of comedy, you know, as well.
Craig: There’s, there’s lots of comedy. It is a comedy. I don’t know, I didn’t find it hilarious, but it was funny. The basic story is Howard, played by Marlon Wayans, one of the very famous and very funny Wayans brothers, and his wife Emily, Kelly Rowland, The Kelly Rowland. The Kelly Rowland, yeah. Destiny’s Child. Of Destiny’s Child and Freddy vs.
Jason. She’s a fine actress. She’s fine. She’s fine. I actually felt bad for her because this, well, and they have a daughter, Sydney, who’s played by Priya Ferguson, who, the only other thing that I’ve seen her in is is Stranger Things, but she came on like in the second or third season of that show playing one of the main character’s younger sisters, and just like steals the show in every scene she’s in.
Oh yeah? She is hilarious. So funny. Both she, but even more so Kelly Rowland, I felt kind of bad like they weren’t really given much to do. Right. Kelly Rowland is Confined to that baking sale for
Todd: the whole movie.
Craig: Yeah,
Todd: she, it’s a very, OneNote, thematically, her character is like very OneNote and very absent from almost all of the action really.
Craig: They’re all kind of OneNote to be honest. Like the writing isn’t amazing. I just like, I do like the story, but the way that the characters are written is, is kind of one note. Like the dad is a science teacher and he’s obsessed with science. And he hates Halloween and he hates anything, like, I don’t know, like, supernatural or whatever because it’s not scientific and you can’t prove it and it’s dumb.
Todd: And they hammer this home so hard because it’s So hard. The movie leaves you with the impression that this man views everything in his life through the lens of, Can I make this into a science lesson? It’s tiresome. I mean, you’re very kind when you say the writing is, What is, what was the word you used? I don’t know.
Not, it’s okay and not bad? I don’t know, you might have said that. I think the writing’s terrible. I mean, it’s not terrible. The dialogue. The dialogue is dumb. That’s my point. It’s so cookie cutter. It’s almost like what would have come out of a script writing class. Like, here are the beats you need. Here are the elements you need.
And then these are the most cliche ways that you can put those beats and elements together. So let’s just. Do that. There are jokes, but I don’t think there’s any, any much new. No. To the jokes. You can see them coming from a mile away. Some of them are even a little cringey. Groaners. I don’t know. It’s just not hip, edgy in the slightest.
There’s nothing edgy about this movie.
Craig: You’re right. Like I, I, and I want to agree with you and I feel like I’m falling into a trap and that I’m going to start talking bad about this movie. I, I think that honestly, that really wasn’t. of my mind because didn’t really care. Like I was willing to overlook that because it was so fun to watch.
Gotcha. Yeah. So, you know, honestly, like I was paying attention to what was happening and I was listening to the words they were saying, but that’s not what I was there for. I hear you. The stuff that I was there for. paid off. Like I was really satisfied. They moved to this new town. I mean, it’s, we open on the shining shot of their car driving through a forest and it’s fun.
You know, they’re singing hit the road, Jack, which is like thematic throughout the whole. And the parents are nerdy and goofy and the daughter’s annoyed and eye rolly, and they’re moving to this new town and she’s mad because they’re making her move to a small town, but they are moving out of the city, like the same setup that we have seen for 8, 000 movies.
Yeah.
Todd: Nothing new here. No,
Craig: it’s God. But they, they, they, they cross a covered bridge into their new town of bridge hollow. Which is, Americana, like, New England in the fall, rich white people.
Todd: Isn’t this the same backlot set that they use for like, Back to the Future, and something wicked this way comes? If it isn’t, it is.
It looks like it.
Craig: I mean, especially like the town square. Yeah, that’s what I mean.
Todd: Cute little old town. Everybody’s busy and boisterous and very Halloween. That’s the thing about this movie that I, and I liked this too.
Craig: And I’m in like from this scene when they first drive in and they’re just driving down the street and they see that every single house has a Extensive and ridiculous Halloween display like oh, yeah, I’m I’m on board.
Yeah
Todd: It was pretty cool and of course like all of them look like they were put together by Hollywood special effects artists Yes, that amazing not a blow up item to be seen. No, not a single inflatable
Craig: Not one and they look great and their next door neighbor has a yard full of zombies and he’s funny There’s lots of funny people in this like Sully.
Yeah, Rob Riggle. He’s been in a lot of stuff. He’s a funny guy He’s not in this very much. No, but he’s pretty good when he’s in it. He’s he’s
Todd: iconic.
Craig: He’s
Todd: funny He’s again, but also I mean he is that stereotypical Character right the good old boy Easygoing, slappy on the back, former military dude who can’t wait to shoot his guns, drinks beer.
We’ve seen this a million times.
Craig: I know, and see now, I know, now that we’re talking about it, now I’m really thinking about it, and like, the cracks are showing, like, It’s, it’s, it’s too bad that That I had to point these out to you? Well, no, I feel like you already alluded to it, but it’s so cliché and it’s just like, just throwing in every cliché of these kinds of movies, like here you’ve got the kind of eccentric But they don’t really do anything with them, really.
It’s at some point the daughter, the dad still is like the, the neighbor wants to like loan him decorations. Like we’re all really excited about Halloween. And the dad’s like, uh, yeah, no thanks. Like, So you got a theme?
Clip: No. You like werewolves? Not particularly. Cause I got a whole shed full of werewolves.
That’s real wolf fur. I don’t even know if it’s legal. And I don’t care cause it’s Halloween. Oh, no thanks. We’re good. Really? We don’t decorate. Jehovah’s Witness. No, I just think it’s kind of silly. What? I mean, do you still believe in Santa Claus? Why, what have you heard? Is he okay?
Craig: He’s just such a stick in the mud and it goes on for so long.
Like, bro, like, calm down.
Todd: He doesn’t even feel like a real person at that point. Nobody is that bad of a stick in the mud, you know?
Craig: Right. Like, okay. So you don’t really care for Halloween. That’s fine. You are new in the neighborhood. They move into a enormous mansion. Also typical. It’s not like a Gothic mansion, but it is an enormous mansion.
Oh, it’s,
Todd: it’s
Craig: bigger than the Amityville house. It’s got huge. And on the inside, you know, like it’s, it’s just stunning. Like woodwork everywhere. Like a huge, like foyer, like, Oh my God, it’s so ridiculous. But seriously, you, you move into a neighborhood and your neighbors are friendly and greet you and say, we are super enthusiastic about Halloween.
You’re like, yeah, I don’t really care about Halloween. They’re like, well, that’s all right. We’ll help you. I have lots of really cool decorations that I’ll loan you. No. Like, do you not even want to, like, make a good impression on your new neighbors?
Todd: Backing away like he can’t get away fast enough when his wife swings by, doesn’t even introduce her, they just kind of go in and, and then the neighbor just kind of chuckles and walks away.
I mean, I would be offended if I were him. Me too! It’s like, what’s wrong
Craig: with you, buddy? So there’s that guy, and we don’t get enough of him, and then when she goes to school, the daughter, when the daughter goes to school, she meets, like, a little gang of misfits.
Todd: Well, she meets them in the cemetery, actually.
Oh, that’s right. I wanted to talk about this for just a second, like, they go into the town square at first, right? They, like, walk. Everything’s within walking distance in this town. It is that small. Yeah. Oh my gosh. And they walk into the town square and they’re setting up for some kind of festival and this woman pulls up in a truck that has this giant jack o lantern.
I love this prop, actually. I love this prop. Love it. It’s like a truck that’s been transformed and half of it just looks like a big jack o lantern and
Craig: It looks like it’s being eaten by a Yeah. Giant evil jackal. Yeah.
Todd: Out pops the mayor. And she is played by, what, Lauren Lapkus? Yeah. She’s hilarious. Yeah, she’s funny.
And she does like voices and things like that. She’s been in a lot of things.
Craig: Yeah. She did a stint on the Big Bang Theory, but she’s been in a lot of things. And she’s very, very funny.
Todd: She’s the kind of person that I always thought was on Saturday Night Live at some point, but isn’t. Ha ha ha ha. No. Like, she just gives that impression, you know?
Oh, she just gives off the former Saturday Night Live player air. True. And anyway, you know, she’s talking about the festival and the town and welcoming there, and just, it’s just very nice and sweet. I mean, again, there’s like, No real conflict here, we’re not setting up any tension, except for this dumb thing where the dad’s just like, Ew, Halloween, you know, everywhere he turns and is openly disdainful.
But everyone else is like, Eh, yeah, whatever, you know, it’s like they almost ignore it or don’t even notice it. And she says, Oh, we got this festival affair going on. And that’s when she brings up the, people can set up booths or something. And that’s when the bakey thing comes in. And the wife goes, wife’s name is.
Uh,
Clip: so, is there gonna be any food at this festival? Of course, yeah, a lot of the local stores are setting up booths. We got hot dogs, funnel cakes, chowder, everything. Uh, is there gonna be any artisanal vegan baked goods? I don’t know what that means, but sure, why not?
Craig: And this is so one note and stupid to like throughout the course of the movie like she eventually does Eventually she said she leaves it’s Halloween night or whatever and she leaves and she sets up her Bake sale at this festival and they just keep coming back to her either via phone call Like the dad will call her for advice or something or they’ll just come back to her as she’s like sitting there Selling her goods.
And every time she’s selling her goods, she sells it to somebody and they just wanna like throw up. Like it’s the most, like they spit it out. Yeah. At one point she gives something to a priest and he takes a bite of it and she’s like, what do you think? And he says, I’m really not supposed to lie. And hands it back to her and walks
Todd: away.
Oh my god. You’re laughing because it’s so dumb. Yeah, not because it’s funny, because it’s dumb. Because every time we come back to this woman and someone tries her goods, it’s like, Uh, yeah, I know what’s gonna happen. Can we just skip past this scene? It’s also just a stupid joke. I would expect this joke like in the 70s or maybe the 80s.
I don’t expect this joke from a movie that was made two years ago. The idea of laughing about how gluten free and vegan stuff tastes bad, we’re long past that. It doesn’t even taste bad anymore.
Craig: No. I mean, it’s still not my favorite, but come on, it’s ridiculous. And like, it’s such a stupid joke, and like, the end cap on it is at the very end of the movie, when everything works out fine, because this is a kid’s movie, everybody ends up around the island in the kitchen the next morning, and the mom’s like, Here, I made some Cinnamon rolls.
And the dad and the daughter are like, UGH. Like don’t eat them. But the other kids eat them and they’re like, these are so good. So the dad and the daughter eat them too and they’re like, oh man, these are good. What’s in them? And she’s like, butter and sugar and gluten. Like, that’s a funny joke.
Todd: And she says, I just.
Life. I just decided life is too short. This is so dumb as to almost be offensive. That’s how dumb it is. I
Craig: don’t know. Maybe kids would think that was funny. I don’t know. Nobody’s
Todd: gonna think that’s funny now. No, it’s
Craig: really stupid
Todd: and poor Kelly Rowland. Poor her. She had to do this and probably had to know how dumb this was.
Like, if you’re gonna dig into a heaping treasure chest of Hollywood cliches. Why is this the one you had to pull out for this movie in 2022? It’s pretty dumb.
Craig: The mayor tells them also about, you know, I guess it’s their local legend of Stingy Jack. Oh, I
Todd: turned his story into a sweater. That was, oh yeah, that was hilarious.
Funniest line in the whole movie. Oh, I turned his story into a sweater. So she’s got a sweater there that and she points to the different elements on the story
Clip: According to an old Irish legend there once lived a wicked man named Stingy Jack And he was such a jerk that the villagers finally had enough and but the devil felt sorry for Jack so he made him a lantern a Pumpkin carved out with a flame the fires of hell Every Halloween, Jack would return to our town, Bridge Hollow, to seek his revenge on the descendants of the villagers who did him in.
Well, at least that’s what we tell the tourists, am I right?
Todd: It was a very, very simple type story. This is a very cutesy script, and there’s nothing innovative about this backstory.
Craig: They, uh, okay, so you said those, the kids meet in the cemetery. Yes, because, because,
Todd: Sid, the girl, is wandering around downtown, and she is looking down an alley and sees a sign that says, Cemetery service entrance?
Yeah, I know, I thought that was funny too. She just walks off screen down this alley, and in the next shot, she’s in this big open field off a cemetery that’s surrounded by trees and woods. I laughed so hard at that. I wondered if it was an intentional joke. It’s so dumb that I thought it was supposed to be funny.
Like, the cemetery is literally right next to the town square and that whole side of the square behind it is just this giant open field with woods around it.
Didn’t even occur to me. And of course, she’s walking through and whatever and then we get a little jump scare because as she walks by a, uh, what are those, like a tomb, right? They’re above ground, kind of mini mausoleum crypts or whatever. Yeah. The door spring open, and three kids come out of it, and they’re all goth.
Well, two of them are goth, and one of them’s Mario. I mean, that’s his name, he’s not the character Mario. I mean, like, they didn’t make all three of them super goth. Mario’s kind of the out, the odd man out, odd man out.
Craig: Yeah, all three of them are kind of supposed to be like outsider kids. Like, there’s Ramona, she’s really short, and she’s the goth one.
She’s got, like, black hair, and we’re his dad. Dark eyeliner. She’s so cute. She’s tiny, but Jamie’s got like purple hair and she’s dressed in she’s got she has blonde hair But she has like purple streaks in it. She’s very pretty. I mean, they’re all cute They’re all kids, but it’s you know, they set it up like oh, here’s their little gang The whole movie by the way, I’ve been meaning to say it since the beginning.
It reminds me a lot of Goosebumps.
Todd: Yeah
Craig: But I think Goosebumps did it better.
Todd: Way better.
Craig: I mean, I don’t want to talk bad about this movie, because ultimately I really get Watching it was a really enjoyable experience.
Todd: I also want to say I’m lovingly making fun of it, because the movie has a bad I didn’t read any of the reviews, but all I saw was like, it’s like a 28 or 38 percent on Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic.
I didn’t even want to read any any a word anybody said about it, because, again, like you, I enjoyed it for what it was, And I’m not going to be too harsh on it, because I think they probably made what they intended to make. They clearly weren’t trying to break any new ground here. They were just trying to make, again, I think like the equivalent of one of those like Hallmark Christmas movies for Halloween and for kids.
So, you know, but I mean, come on. They didn’t try very hard to, you know, color outside of the lines here, you know.
Craig: That’s what I’m saying, like, missed opportunities, because then I thought that this, you know, much like Goosebumps was gonna follow this little ragtag group of kids, but it doesn’t. They’re just kind of hanging out in the background too, and ultimately, I don’t even remember exactly how it happens.
Sidney is in her attic, or goes up to the attic for some reason. No
Todd: she doesn’t! Oh, I can’t wait to talk about this too! Alright, cause I just finished watching it, that’s why it’s so much fresher in my mind. But I made a note, so, at the behest of these kids, because these kids tell her, Oh, you’re the one who just moved into the old Madam Hawthorne’s house, which by the way happens to be the crypt that they walked out of too.
Yeah. And I didn’t know that Crypts in cemeteries just had swinging doors where you could walk in and out of them and nobody gave a shit. They’re locked, but that’s how this cemetery works. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, uh, they’re like, oh, well, you know, they say that her go, her spirit still haunts that place. And she’s like, really?
And they’re like, yeah, we’ve got some homework for you. So she comes home. She goes upstairs by herself into someone’s bedroom down the hall, opens up an iPad, and a Ouija board app. Puts her fingers on the planchette on the touchscreen on the Ouija board app. And I’m like, how is this app supposed to work?
Does the planchette like Move under your fingers, and you’re just supposed to move your fingers along with it or something? Like
Craig: Also, she did not read the terms of agreement, because what is the first rule of Ouija boards? You gotta have more people! You never do it alone. She’s lucky she didn’t get possessed.
I guess so, I just I’ve seen that movie.
Todd: Many times. So anyway, then after she does this, I don’t know, some little wind blows and some spooky sounds happen. And then down at the end of the hall in this beautiful house, a door slowly creaks open. She walks into that door and suddenly we’re like in the f ing attic.
This beautiful house with this second floor, with these rooms and bedrooms and everything is modern and beautiful. For some reason they decided to leave one room. Unfinished from the 19th from the 1850s completely unfinished to the point where there are cobwebs You know laugh and plaster walls you’re seeing in here like nobody stepped in there for
Craig: 50 I don’t remember but are you sure she didn’t go up some stairs because it definitely felt like an attic
Todd: She never went upstairs Stairs, that is the funny thing about this opens the door and steps into this room.
Again, I thought the movie was with me, you know, I thought the movie was trying to be silly, but no, it was really that way. And yeah, she just kind of like trips over some things and knocks a skateboard, which like hits like a tricycle, which hits a lamp and ends up falling into one of these walls.
Craig: Yeah.
It’s like a Rube Goldberg mousetrap type series of events. Something then falls. Into and breaks through a wall and she looks in there and there’s a trunk in there and she pulls it out and She opens it up and there’s an old fashioned Jack o lantern and it’s funny because it’s it’s a whole joke. It’s a turnip It’s a jack o lantern made out of and that’s that’s that tracks Is a legit thing.
Like, yeah, that’s in the olden days. Right. And then more things happen. I don’t remember exactly how it gets set up, but there’s this building conflict between her and her dad. Like he’s so into science and wants her to be into science, but she wants to do other things and she wants to be in the paranormal society and, and the mom is trying to mediate and trying to get the dad to loosen up a little bit.
It all ends up on Halloween night. They’re in the kitchen together. And they’re arguing about something. Yeah. And she has, and she has that jack o lantern.
Todd: Well, I mean, we got there because Dad was gonna forbid her from doing Halloween stuff. He’s like, you don’t do that. Like, we’re not gonna do that. We’re not a superstitious people or something like that.
I mean, he’s a major buzzkill. Dad is. Oh God, yeah. And by the way, We’ve been to the school, because Dad, you know, is the new science teacher there, so he’s introduced to his classroom, and that’s when we meet the principal. Who is this happy go lucky dude who’s played by John
Craig: Michael Higgins. He’s so funny.
He’s delightful. He’s
Todd: always delightful. He’s been in a million things, and Best of Show, and all that stuff. But yeah, so, he was fun, and I just gotta point this part out, too. Like, the dad opens a cabinet. In his room that’s supposed to have chemicals in it and out springs a plastic skeleton that falls on him and he freaks out Like this is the scariest thing that has happened to him in a long time And he’s so shaken by it.
Even when the kids are streaming into the classroom Marlon Wayans just a stand there like oh Staring at that skeleton in the closet. Oh my God, you know when we did the worst witch and you know They were playing terror tag or whatever. Yeah, I felt like this was like Along those same lines. Really?
You’re that scared of I mean, I know you hate halloween. You’re all scientific. He’s scared
Craig: of skeletons Oh, right. He tells that story later like the reason that he is It’s so sciency, it’s because one time when he was a kid, he was playing around an old house or something and, I don’t know, like the floor fell out from underneath him and he fell into the cellar.
When he looked around, the cellar was full of stuff. Skeletons, but they were alive and they were like coming for him and then he was terrified but then the doctors explained to him that sometimes people who get concussions hallucinate and So he had a scientific reason For what happened. And so he knew that everything real had a scientific explanation and that’s why he just cannot wrap his head around anything, but you’re right.
Like he is just such a buzzkill. Like my guy, I get it. Like you’re not into it. That’s cool. Your daughter wants to do it. Like, just,
Todd: what is your problem? Your daughter goes by the, the Yoder’s general store and buys a rubber bat and hangs it over the door, which, as he comes home, he sees it and he yanks it down like he’s angry.
He walks into the kitchen, opens up the trash can, and chucks it in there. Like, alright, maybe you don’t like the fact that she has this bat, but your daughter bought that bat. Are you gonna throw that away?
Craig: And it’s one little tiny decoration, like, calm, Down, sir. Right. But we haven’t even gotten to the fun part of the movie, like, so, like, she, for, she lights the jack o lantern, the, the turnip jack o lantern, um, and then he blows it out but it comes back, it lights back up again, he blows it out and comes, like, it keeps coming on and eventually he throws it in the trash can and then the trash can starts shaking and that bat, that toy bat, that decoration bat that he threw in there flies out and it’s got red eyes.
And it like flies all around and scares them and they’re freaking out or whatever. But eventually it flies out of the house and across the street into a cauldron in a Halloween display with witches.
Todd: With these awesome witches.
Craig: Oh, it’s great. And the, and the cauldron kind of starts to glow red and then the witch’s eyes turn red and they come alive and, and go flying and like they fly across the moon.
It’s so great. All of this is amazing. Like, I love this. It’s so much and
Todd: appropriately scary. I mean, I was like, man, those witches are bad ass and it is so cool and they’re cackling.
Craig: Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s great. I mean, it takes time and there’s a series of scenes, but what happens is it’s like it spreads. I think the dad even says sometimes it’s like a virus, like it spreads and it does.
Todd: He says it’s like, it’s like a virus, which makes sense because it started with the bat. Oh my God.
This movie would be banned in China for that alone. I’m just telling you that right now.
Craig: There are also, I thought they made a mistake because I think this is a fun movie that some, like, if you see this when you’re a kid, I think maybe this will be something that you really enjoy and cling to. And I thought that they made a mistake by including some jokes and references that will clearly date it.
Yeah. I mean, that’s one of them, obviously, but I feel like there are just other like pop culture references. Yeah. One of my favorite things is one of the things, like the bat, that is spreading this around is a cat, but it’s like a two dimensional, like, plywood cat that’s running around spreading it, and it spreads it to the neighbor who has the zombies, and the zombies come alive, and those are the first things that the dad and the daughter really have to confront.
And the daughter is awesome. I don’t think she’s well written. I think that the girl who plays her is great. And I just think that she had to say the words that were written. And yeah, she’s all the time. Just like dad, come on. Like, look, it’s real. Like dad. It’s just the two of them bickering back and forth all the time and the movie is supposed to be about them Learning about each other and building a relationship, but it doesn’t
Todd: work.
No, there’s no moments. There’s no build It’s just you know They have these action scenes and dad’s got to do something and then she has to convince him and then he Kind of starts to understand, I mean, at some point I was like, come on, what you, you really think there’s a scientific explanation for this?
Like all these spiders just came to life.
Craig: The zombies come to life. He did. Oh, those are great animatronics.
Todd: No,
Craig: come on. Come on. Yeah, it’s ridiculous. Yeah, that happens. And then you’re right. Then I don’t remember. They go to the school at some point. I was saying another thing that dates it. The kids. The, the, the nerdy paranormal kids.
Mario is dressed like Hamilton, right?
Todd: Yeah.
Craig: And Ramona is dressed as Cruella. That’s pretty timeless. That’s fine. I couldn’t figure out who the third one was supposed to, was she supposed to be Tanya Harding?
Todd: I have no idea. Even Tanya Harding is a dated reference. Come on.
Craig: I couldn’t figure it out. Somebody, somebody tell us in the comments who she was supposed to be, because she was clearly supposed to be somebody specific.
I couldn’t figure it out. Very eighties and they look great and it’s fun. I don’t remember if it’s before or after that, because again, at this point it just seems like vignettes. They’re just going from location to location for new things. All of this is because of Jack, whatever, Stingy Jack.
Todd: At some point we get a backstory.
Yeah, cause they go to, cause Sully, after, you know, fighting off the, the Zombies. I don’t remember why, he overhears them say something about Hawthorne or whatever, and he says, Oh, her, and she’s like, And the girl’s like, no, she can’t still be alive. He’s like, oh, I thought you were talking about her granddaughter.
Her granddaughter’s still alive, she’s at the nursing home. So they decide to go to the nursing home to talk to the granddaughter, who is a freaky looking herself. Yeah. She’s an old lady with white, I guess Cataracts. Cataracts. Eyes, or whatever, yeah, but she tells the story of when she was a little girl, her mother and her witch friends held a seance at their house in order to contain the spirit of Jack, and he didn’t go well, and eventually they were able to contain him, Jack wanted to come back more they had made an agreement that he could come back every Halloween for a day?
I didn’t
Craig: really get that. It didn’t make sense. Somehow, like, he made a deal with the devil that if he could Find a different soul to give back to the devil then he could Stay and then it would be Halloween all the time. You
Todd: had to like possess somebody basically or something
Craig: No, I think he has to take like there’s like there’s this big vortex to hell I guess that opens up at midnight on Halloween.
He’s got to toss someone down there. He’s got to toss somebody in there Oh, okay, like I didn’t quite catch that bit And then he can stay and it’ll be Halloween all the time. All right, whatever. I don’t know so they talked to that Creepy old lady like she was funny. I think that she’s an old Hollywood actress.
I don’t know I looked at her imdb page and it was a black and white picture of her when she was younger So she’s obviously been around a long time But the whole nursing home is decorated in spider webs and spiders and a giant spider
Todd: more effort I’m sad. I’m, sorry to say than any nursing home usually puts Forward for decorations.
Craig: Yeah, I haven’t done it in a long time, but the nursing homes around here are great I’ve taken little kids around to trick or treat cause those, the old folks love seeing the kids in their Halloween costumes. But anyway, all the spiders come alive and they have to have a big spider battle. And then, and Oh God, the dad like sciences out and mixes chemicals to make some acidic like supernatural bug spray.
Todd: It’s one thing that
Craig: he
Todd: gets MacGyver about it, but on the other hand, he’s always like, Pop quiz! What happens when you mix X with X and blah blah blah? He’s trying to make some science lesson, like he’s continually trying to prove a point, or continually trying to teach his daughter, you know, lessons in chemistry.
Well,
Craig: and in do I don’t even know if they talked about this in the movie, but in doing that, like, he’s always talking to her like she’s so And she’s not, like, she’s super smart. Like, she, she knows all this stuff. So, then, I feel like that’s when they go to the school, and there’s, like, a haunted maze in the school.
There’s,
Todd: like, two of them, yeah. Well, there’s a haunted carnival, creepy carnival, and that was awesome.
Craig: Yes, yeah, this whole thing is great. Like, they had mentioned it earlier because her new friends were going to be working at, I don’t remember what it was called, something about a, some kind of haunted maze.
And they were going to be working at it, and so I was excited.
Todd: And real quick, the reason why they go to the school is because, The woman, I think, tells them that there’s a grimoire, like the, the spells that her grandmother had were in a book, that the kid looks up online to find where the book is, and, oh, it was sold off on auction to this guy who happens to be at the school now, so that’s why they go there.
Craig: Right. I mean, there is connective tissue, like Oh, it’s
Todd: so thin and so dumb. I know, it
Craig: just does I, I feel like it doesn’t matter.
Todd: No.
Craig: You know, they, they, they get to the school, and then they get chased around by really scary clowns. Like, they’re really scary. Yeah. I loved the shots from above of them in the maze.
Like they’re running around in the maze and the clowns are chasing them. And it, it was scary to see, you know, there’s just one very small partition between them and these killer clowns. And then they’re just turning a corner just in time to get away. Like I really liked it. Yeah, it was good. Like it was a really fun.
Fun viewing experience. And then at the end, the dad and the kids meet up, they, they get out of the maze and they meet up and they have to fight one of the clowns who has an axe. And yes, the, the dad fights him for a minute. And then the girl comes in and like, she’s like the karate kid. And she like, like swing kicks Emily.
Todd: How about when Marlon Wayans squares up with that one clown and goes, homie, don’t play that. Before
Craig: he kicks him. That was. I did laugh out loud at that. I did too. I had almost forgot about Homey the Clown. Oh boy. Homey
Todd: the Clown, don’t mess around. Oh gosh. Even when he’s up, the man’ll bring him down. You know, I loved this bit.
I mean, obviously, it’s a little suspect that these decorative clowns and things that they’re gonna have in this have actual axes and machetes. I know, right?
Craig: Yeah, I mean, it’s a little bit difficult to understand the rules of it because when those clowns come alive, they are clearly men in clown suits.
Todd: Yeah.
Craig: But like you said, any time they are dispatched or dismembered, There’s no blood or gore, it’s just, like, props. And you know they die because their red lights go out.
Todd: Yeah, so how are they actually getting dispe yeah, what does it take to, like, dismember it to the point where no bit of it moves anymore?
Yeah, it’s kind of hard to say.
Craig: Well, and it’s one thing when a cardboard Halloween cat is chasing you around. It’s it’s just from a viewing perspective, the zombies are the same way. Like, they’re clearly Real.
Todd: Yeah.
Craig: Whereas some of the things maintain their look like, I don’t know. Again, there’s this whole chase for, they’re looking for this book and the guy who was supposed to have it sold it on eBay and he doesn’t know who bought it, but he knows the address ’cause it was 6, 6, 6.
So they
Todd: walk to 666 Elm Street, which it’s like, really? If you sold it to a guy, you didn’t need to mail it. It seems like you could have just walked this
Craig: to his son. You sold it to a guy on the internet who lives down the street
Todd: in town. And
Craig: it’s the principal, who is low key a devil worshiper, right? Well, he claims to not
Clip: be.
Floyd. Uh huh. What are you, some type of Satanist or something? Oh jeepers no, Howard. Howard! I’m a principal in a very small town with a very big Christian population. No, no, no, I just Collect things, you know, some people collect stamps some people collect butterflies I collect objects related to the eternal damnation of the human soul
Craig: I think he’s a low key Satanist because then at the end, when they win, he’s like, I’ve switched teams.
I don’t know. But his yard is decorated. It’s great. It’s fantastic. It’s so good. I wish that I had the money and the time and the storage space to set up a whole like football team of skeletons. It’s just skeletons and football jerseys and helmets. And it’s great. He’s a
Todd: principal with school spirit. I like this guy.
Craig: Right. They find the spell, they find the spell book, but then the skeletons come alive, and there’s a whole And remember, the dad is scared of skeletons. And they fight them, and then I think they all end up down in the basement, and then the dad and this daughter have, or somebody, I don’t know, they have a talk about
Todd: She gives him a lame pep talk.
Quick, this little pep talk that changes his whole worldview in, uh, in 30 seconds. Dad!
Clip: What is wrong with you? The skeletons. Ah, they’re coming through! What do we do? So it’s unexplainable. So what? They’re real. And you know what you can do to something that’s real? You can kick its ass!
Craig: And he’s like, okay, so he grabs the chainsaw
and he goes upstairs and there is a whole big scene of him taking out these skeletons with the chainsaw and it’s fun.
Todd: I loved it. It’s super fun. It’s another reason why I wouldn’t show this to my seven year old though. Even though they were clearly props and they’re skeletons or whatever, he lops limbs off, he cuts them.
It’s almost like what Art the Clown would do, you know, except This is just dust and, and bones and whatnot. Still not ready for my son to see. A chainsaw being wielded in that manner on humanoid like creatures.
Craig: Let’s just put it that way. I get it. And I don’t disagree with you,
Todd: but it’s awesome.
Craig: It’s so much fun.
Todd: Yeah, it’s a lot of fun.
Craig: In all of the ruckus, the spell book gets, all the pages come out and flutter all around, and the page with the spell gets burned. They hear a weird rumbling, and then when they go outside, all of the decorations from all of the yards are gone, and they’re like, Oh no, what’s happening?
And they’re like, oh, they must be gathering. And they’re gonna gather in the town square where the festival is, because at the festival they have a giant stingy jack. And whoever wins the pumpkin carving ceremony, that pumpkin gets to be Stingy Jack’s head. So, the kids and the Wayans brother, uh, head towards town, but on the way, they stop by the ceremony cemetery to go to the Hawthorne Crypt to do a seance.
Yes, because they have to get they have to get the spell because the spell got burned up the old lady Hawthorne in the flashback is played by Nia Vardalos of my big fat Greek wedding and then she possesses Marlon Wayans and talks through him and one of the girls records it for Tik Tok and then they leave.
Right, and all of the Halloween decorations have gathered in the town square and the the townspeople have put the giant pumpkin on Stingy Jack’s head and The mayor is leading the ceremony and when all of the Halloween decorations show up she thinks it’s like their rival town Coming to mess up their festival and so she kind of like leads a charge with her town To like face off with them.
Todd: It’s so dumb I guess it’s supposed to be funny because this sweet like very peppy and very Gung Ho Mayor, who just seems so nice, has got it in for, like, Shelbyville, basically, you know.
Craig: I know, her character is so funny. I really like that actress, Lauren Lapkus. I think she’s really, really funny. She does a really odd accent.
Like, she’s got, like, uh, Bronx, like, I
Clip: Yeah.
Craig: It’s weird, like, what are you doing? Nobody else in that town has that accent. It
Todd: doesn’t even fit. I was waiting at some point for her to like, say something like, Oh yeah, I moved here from New York too, or something like that. But, I don’t know, it’s
Craig: really weird.
But anyway, so it all culminates. The dad and, and the kids all get to the square. And then Jack comes alive. And, and like flames like burst out of his mouth and eyes and I loved, God, I loved this.
Todd: This was good.
Craig: The Stingy Jack character at the end when he comes alive and oh man, it was great. It’s got an 80s vibe to me for some reason.
I’m not sure why. I know why. The real
Todd: Ghostbusters or. Also hints and shades of Return to Oz are in there. You know, with the Jack character. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then also, you know, we did the Disney Legend of Sleepy Hollow for our patrons. And that cartoon, you know, has that flaming pumpkin in it. And the flames, like, shoot out of the pumpkin.
Out of its eyes and its nose. It all kind of came together for me. And kind of that feeling. It was cool. A little bit of Nightmare Before Christmas, too. I think there’s a pumpkin character. That looks a lot like that. Yeah.
Craig: Yeah, I loved it. It’s great. He’s big, you know, like he’s really big. I would say he’s probably like 10 feet tall.
He’s huge. The dad and the daughter look for the mom because she was at her bake sale, but she’s gone and they know that Jack needs both. His lantern and a soul to trade at midnight. And they’re like, Oh no, because mom is at home listening to R& B, drinking wine.
Todd: Not as devastated as she should be that slowly everybody spit her food back into their face.
You know,
Craig: then she’s even like trying her own food and she’s like, Ooh, it is gross. And she’s like knocking her scone on a plate. And it like makes a clanking sound. Yeah. Scones are hard. Like scones are hard. It’s fine.
Todd: That’s the worst thing. It’s a dumb joke. You should have made it like, I don’t know, like an angel thing.
Food cake that was that hard or something right so stupid.
Craig: But anyway, he’s there. He skulks around He doesn’t actually get her before they show up the dad and the daughter show up they show up But then he does get her and then the bat is also back and causing problems and the dad and the daughter like there It’s like a moment like he he has to go rescue his wife.
He doesn’t want the daughter to kill Come because he doesn’t want her to be in danger or something, but like he has to trust her to take care of herself I don’t know like again, like I said, there’s some that’s what the the character growth is supposed to be He’s supposed to be learning that she’s growing up and he’s got to let go a little bit and like they they play act it Like it’s in the script, but it just doesn’t read.
No
Todd: Because they’ve been fighting these monsters the whole time. I mean, like, there’s no real change. Like, Oh, I don’t know. It just, it’s silly. It’s silly.
Craig: And so he goes in and he has to read the spell and he does, but it’s not working. And the daughter’s like, you have to really believe in it. So he reads it in English.
So
Todd: he, apparently to
Craig: believe it, he has to say it in English and he does. And Skinny Jack gets sucked into the hell vortex. And then they’re fine. And then it’s the next morning and everything’s fine and everybody’s happy and all the kids are there and everything’s great. And then he and the daughter go up to the attic and they’re gonna seal up the jack o lantern.
They can’t just destroy it because that might let him out again. I don’t remember ever hearing that. Right. I guess they’re just being cautious. I don’t know. Whatever. So they put it back in the trunk and they cover it in chemical flame retardant. Right. And they lock it back up and they have a little heart to heart about how, you know, he realizes she’s getting older and she can do things on her own and he trusts her and blah, blah, blah.
Please. And then I don’t know, somebody knocks something over and the Rube Goldberg thing happens again, breaks through another part of the wall and they look in there. And it’s full of locked trunks. And I think the last line of the movie is, Oh, hell no.
Todd: Oh my god. That about summed it up, really. I’m surprised that Marlon Wayans even uttered that line.
Oh
Craig: my god, I thought it was really funny.
Todd: How dumb. Again, so dumb as to almost be offensive.
Craig: Uh, no, I thought it was hilarious. Also, when they were having their heart to heart, Or no, no, no, gosh, no. It was when they were still down at the, uh, uh, standing around the, the kitchen island having cinnamon rolls.
They were saying something about how wild last night was. And I think it was Ramona said, Huh? You think that was wild? You should see what this town does for Christmas. And I was like, Oh my God, that is hilarious. Like just totally setting it up for a sequel. And then of course they, you know, they could do, A sequel with all of those other trunks too and I don’t think they will cause I haven’t heard anything.
I haven’t heard anything about it. I don’t think this movie did well enough necessarily to warrant a sequel, but for all of the crap that we’ve given it and I think that we’ve been really fair in that regard. It was a fun watch. I had fun watching it and and so I would 100 percent recommend it again.
The writing isn’t great. I don’t care. I don’t care because the, the stuff that I’m seeing and the stuff that is happening is, is so fun and it’s so Halloween y. I’m glad we saved it for the last one because of all the ones that we’ve seen, this one is just, it feels like such just a celebration of Halloween.
Todd: Yeah.
Craig: And for that, for that, I, I really like it.
Todd: Yeah, I, I agree with you on all that. I’ll admit, I got a little bored about halfway through because it was just so predictable, and Yeah. You know, you could see where it’s going, there was nothing innovate nothing real edgy, like I said, even not even really attempting to be edgy in any way, shape, or form.
And so, I did get a little bored about halfway through it, but this is like a, that’s because I’m a 40 something year old guy watching it alone, you know, this is a family movie, you know, this is something you would sit down with your family and have a ball with, so, uh, it’s, it was made for that, it delivered, I think, on what it was made for, it’s a shame it couldn’t be a little more creative and clever and original but It fits the bill and the special effects really made up for it If the special effects had not been as good it would have been pretty a pretty lame movie Yeah, that redeems it to some degree It’s just the production value is high and the star power of it is is high You know Netflix has big pockets and yeah They do and they can put things like this together and then they do and I mean the fact that there isn’t a sequel to It should kind of show you because you know, sometimes it doesn’t matter what the critics think If audiences eat it up, it could be critically panned, but if it got a lot of views on Netflix, they’re gonna make a sequel, or they’re gonna do something with it.
Oh god,
Craig: yeah, Netflix is totally driven by numbers, that’s all they care about.
Todd: Yeah, and it doesn’t seem like, just by evidence of the fact that we’ve seen nothing moving on that front, it’s probably also didn’t get the viewership that they were hoping, so. But you know. A perfect Halloween movie. I’m so glad we saved this for the last week, because it’s Halloween through and through.
It’s a good Halloween movie to watch with your family. Don’t expect too much from it. Just sit back and enjoy the spirit of the season.
Craig: Yeah, it’s fun. I mean, it’s like going to a haunted house or a haunted attraction. Like, there’s just so many fun things to look at. Like, that’s what, honestly, that’s what the movie feels like.
It feels like you’re moving from room to room in
Todd: a
Craig: haunted attraction.
Todd: For sure.
Craig: And it’s fun. I love that stuff.
Todd: We did it because you recommended it. You, you saw it last year and you thought it would be good for us to do. We did it this year, and I’m glad we did. So thank you, Craig. Happy Halloween to all of you.
We hope that you, uh, have enjoyed this month and that you’ve still got a couple more days to go for the big day, so get your preparations in order. We would love to see what you’re doing. If you’re decorating your lawn or putting together a pretty awesome costume, post some pictures for us on our patrons page as well, if you’re a patron.
Otherwise, you know, you can search Two Guys and a Chainsaw podcast. And you can find our Facebook page, our website, all of those places, uh, you know, you’re able to, uh, interact with us and comment back. We’d love to hear what you are doing for Halloween and, uh, see some cool pictures from around the world until next time I’m Todd and I’m Craig with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.
Sleepy Hollow remains a solid Tim Burton film – and his first foray into real horror. While it boasts a star-studded cast (Johnny Depp, Christina Ricci, Christopher Lee, Jeffrey Jones, and practically the entire cast of the Harry Potter series), we note that the passage of time has not remained kind to this one. What is wrong with it? Nothing, actually. It’s just … well, not what we expected, and not as fond as we remembered it.
Nevertheless, the classic tale of Ichabod Crane and The Headless Horseman is utterly PERFECT for conjuring up those Halloween vibes. Let’s take a deep dive into this as we get into the spirit of the season.
And if you’re a Patron of the show, you’ll also get access to our companion minisode, where we discuss the Disney animated version of the original Washington Irving tale upon which this movie is (loosely) based. Wander on over to our Patreon page and consider joining the crew for a discussion of both the cartoon AND the short story, as well as nearly 50 minisodes and other goodies exclusively for our Patrons!
Episode 412, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw
Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.
Craig: And I’m Craig.
Todd: We are knee, knee deep in the holiday season. Knee deep in the graveyard, as you might say. Knee. Where do I come up with this shit? I mean, I probably wouldn’t. Some people might say it. I don’t know. Maybe I said it for the first time and it’ll become a thing.
It’s cute. I like it. I once came up with a saying that I was spreading around and hoping that would spread so that by the time I saw it in a movie, I could tell everybody it actually came from me. I don’t think you should say it. Are you saying that because I’m scared. Oh yeah, it’s a fantastic one. I thought, like, what is something that people always say, like, Oh, that really ticks me off.
That really ticks me off or I’m really pissed or something like that. I thought, That really yanks my loins. Damn it, that yanks my loins. Pretty good, huh? I mean, that’s pretty good. It’s unique enough that if I heard it in a movie, I would know it only came from me. But I thought it was catchy. Thank you.
Okay. If any I’ll I’ll keep
Craig: my
Todd: ears out. My cousins in Illinois, when I was in high school, I think when they were in high school, so that was, this was many years ago, claimed that they, once I told them this, they started using it at school and they said everyone at school saying it, was saying it at some point.
So I had high hopes. But I have yet to see it in a movie, so, uh, that remains. Don’t give up. I won’t. Maybe, you know, once this spreads to both of our listeners, they can also go off and do the thing. I’ve still got lots of life to live. I think it’s got legs, man. Yanks my loins. That really yanks my loins.
Hello, welcome to Two Guys in a Chainsaw. Hope we don’t yank your loins today.
Craig: You know what really yanks my loins? Yeah!
It works, doesn’t it? Get
Todd: on
Craig: with it. It works, okay. It’s, it’s, it’s something.
Todd: We were looking for a wide variety of Halloween stuff to do, and it seemed like the list that I came up with was getting a little skewed towards, like, children, kind of kidsy movies, and I thought, you know what, that’s kind of fine.
So why don’t we go ahead and throw this mainstream movie in that I remember from 1999 called Sleepy Hollow. Starred Johnny Depp, Christina Ricci, was directed by Tim Burton. I remembered it as being fun and fairly light. You know, as far as horror movies go, that it wasn’t really so scary. It was just full of atmosphere and pretty much suitable for your older, younger set.
So when we went back to watch it this time around, which I hadn’t seen since it came out, I was pretty shocked at how gory it was. I was really surprised, and so I’m kind of happy that we sat down to do this one this season because I was really happy to revisit it, there was a lot I’d forgotten about it, and it is maybe the most horror of a Tim Burton movie that Tim Burton’s ever done.
Oh yeah. And, and that’s odd because you think of Tim Burton as being the spooky guy, but in actuality, he really hasn’t done much of what you would consider horror, and I think this might be horror. At the top of the list. He certainly took the project because he, he hadn’t done a horror movie yet, which is odd because horror movies were his favorite movies growing up.
He was a hammer horror fan. He was a Vincent Price nut, you know, and, and, and all that. And it really kind of inspired. the direction you decide to take things, so. It was fun revisiting it, but uh, this is the first time I’d seen it since it came out. I’m not sure if I’d seen it in the theater or rented it, probably 50 50 one or the other, but yeah, I had a good time.
How about you? What was your history with this movie?
Craig: I, I, I don’t know. I’ve been trying to think. My memory is so bad, so I’ll tell you what I think I remember, but I may be just totally making it up. I think that I remember being really excited about this. Like when the trailers came out, because I really liked Tim Burton, you know, especially up to this point, I’d really liked the stuff that he had done.
And up to this point, I liked Johnny Depp. And I really like this story. Like, this is one of my favorite Halloween stories. When we were growing up, the Disney version? Yes. The animated one would play annually on television? Young people today just don’t know. You just don’t know. You know? Young
Todd: people today, they just don’t get it.
Craig: There were these great things, like these holiday specials, or just movies that they would play yearly, usually around some holiday. Like, The Sound of Music, or Wizard of Oz, or something like that. And that would be for many of us, the only access you had to that. So when it came up. Every year. It was so exciting every year at Halloween.
I was so excited to get to watch the sleepy hollow cartoon. It was so cute. So I was super excited about this movie. And I think that I remember being disappointed. I’m not sure why. Well, I think I know. Watching this again, I still wasn’t super into it and I was telling Alan like, I don’t know what I’m gonna say because there’s nothing wrong with this movie.
Like, it should hit on every level and just for some reason it just doesn’t for me and I can’t figure it out. Maybe we can suss it out as, as we talk. I don’t know.
Todd: We might be able to. I, I don’t know. I, I, like you, uh, loved that Disney, what, it was my first introduction to the story and it’s a very compelling story.
Craig: It’s super, super faithful to the, to the text. Oh, it is. To the Washington, yeah, the Washington Irving text. Now the Washington Irving text, I’ve tried to teach that several times and kids are just not into it. And I get it. Yeah. Because it’s long and it’s kind of boring. Well,
Todd: it’s, it’s all narration.
There’s no, you know, it’s like a story told by a, you Heard from a guy, heard from a guy, you know, and it’s kind of done in that vein. Didn’t Washington Irving have a book that was ostensibly essays and letters from somebody else? You know, like, He just, Oh, I don’t know. It’s a good story. It is. But it’s, it’s like the tale you’d hear from some old man sitting around talking, telling you, you
Craig: know, I mean, it, it, it, it, me, it meanders.
Like it’s a lot of like local color.
Todd: It’s heavy on description. That doesn’t matter world.
Craig: Yeah. Like world building of the area and like all these like old legends. And it really is a good story. It really is. But you need, you have to be in the mood for it. It’s, it’s not like a page turner.
Todd: Yeah, it’s less like reading a novel or a short story as it is like having somebody tell you something that they heard happen once.
Yeah. While you’re sitting in a bar and the music is loud or whatever. It’s just, it’s not gonna hit the same. But I actually really like that story because I find it cozy.
Craig: Yeah, oh, it’s very cozy, sure.
Todd: You just kind of disappear into a little world for a while and I, and the language of that time, you know, the writing, Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. It’s just so, sometimes I’m really in the mood for that. Let me just put it that way. It’s almost Me too. Yeah. I get it. It transports you back to a time you never lived in but wish you had sometimes. Anyway, yeah, we’re gonna actually do the Disney story of, uh, Ichabod Crane, the cartoon, as a minisode for our patrons.
So if you’re actually interested in hearing us talk a little bit more about the Disney movie and about the short story that inspired it, go to Patreon. com slash Chainsaw Podcast and think about signing up. It’s just five bucks a month and you get access to a whole bunch of minisodes. And the ones that we’ve already done and the ones we do in the future, lots of other goodies and things like that.
So I think I kind of know why, because I liken this a little bit to the movie Van Helsing.
Craig: Yes. Oh my God. I put that in my notes and I was super excited about that movie too. And then it was just okay. Like, and again, it should have, it’s exactly What I think I want it to be, but for some reason it’s just not.
I was curious as to whether you would be a bigger fan of this. Because I should have figured it out on my own, but I really didn’t figure it out until I started reading about it. That he did this very much in the style of Of the Hammer horror films and Mario Bava films. Now, Mario Bava films I’m not nearly as familiar with.
I know we’ve done a couple. Tell me, what are some of the ones that we’ve
Todd: done? Honestly, we have not done a Mario Bava film yet, which is Are you serious? Yeah, I’m sorry. We did one by his son. His son did Demons, and so we did that one. So we probably talked a little bit about him, and we said Bava, but it was not Mario.
Black Sunday is one of my favorite old movies, and it’s cited constantly as a inspiration for so many people who grew up watching those 60s horror movies and hammer horror movies that and finally went on to direct in themselves, and little pieces and bits of it end up in movies. We’ve seen the actress from that became very, very popular and has shown up in movies that we’ve done, including Piranha.
She was one of the mean scientists who was part of the conspiracy. So, yeah, we, we’ve talked about Black Sunday and Mario Bava a little bit, but we’ve never done it. And now I’m thinking we need to rectify that. We need to at least do Black Sunday, if nothing else, that Mario Bava has done. He is a big blind spot right now in our,
Craig: You are more familiar with all of those films than I am, but I think I may have just figured it out.
I think it’s when a brilliant filmmaker looks back at the films that they were inspired by and want to emulate it. Like, here’s my tribute to it, or I like it so much. I want to do something like it and they try to recreate it and you just can’t like it
Todd: maybe yeah
Craig: with the modern effects And it’s just different so much of what those movies are to me is style And I understand that you you can imitate style But just the visual me as the viewer looking at it the visual style.
I understand. Yes Okay, so Burton filmed most of this movie on set But it doesn’t look like it.
Todd: Not at all.
Craig: The old Hammer movies, they look like sets. I almost feel like I’m watching a play. So it’s totally different. And, and so I think it just doesn’t work. Like trying to think of other things like that.
Tim Burton’s Dark Shadows. Nobody was into
Todd: yeah,
Craig: I feel like when you try too hard to recapture something in this case I just don’t I don’t know and it’s not a bad movie. It’s not no, it’s a good
Todd: movie It just doesn’t work for me So I’m gonna be a little kinder than you on this because I do feel like he did a pretty good job of Recreating the look and the and the style of hammer films visually Again, like what you said is very true, like, updating it a little bit, because it’s just much more, it’s got a bigger budget and better teams behind it, you know, it’s more competent and stuff, so like, the sets don’t really look like sets, even though they’re still just as covered in fog and obscured and kind of small as they were, you know, when you’re doing, say, like, in, in, in one of the old Hammer Dracula movies, where you’re out in the woods and it’s just a bunch of branches and things and a lot of fog to kind of disguise the fact that you’re actually in a small confined space.
It’s hard to make a set look big, you know, when it’s, uh, inside of a, even when it’s inside, like, an airplane hangar.
Craig: And they do it brilliantly here. Like, it’s so, the whole thing is so well done. Tim Burton is a genius. Like, I just think he’s an absolute genius. I said earlier, like, Up until this point, I was a big fan of him and Johnny Depp.
I’m, I’m still a big Tim Burton fan. I feel like the stuff that he’s put out more recently doesn’t really live up to some of his earlier stuff. And Johnny Depp, I’m just over, like, I was never all that into him. And at this point I’m just over him. I don’t get it. Let’s, let’s let him go. Let’s let him go
Todd: away.
It sounds like you’re putting him to sleep.
Craig: No, he can just go and be rich quietly somewhere else. I don’t need to see him anymore.
Todd: I’m picturing you as, as an assassin coming up from behind Johnny Depp, real quick around the neck and he’s like struggling and you’re going and slowly lowering him to the ground.
That’s, that’s, uh, that’s a
Craig: very vivid imagination, but, but, but Tim Burton is Brilliant. Edward Scissorhands is one of my favorite movies of all time. And Johnny Depp is brilliant in that too. I will give him credit where it is due. So I’m not like everything is beyond adept. The cinematography is gorgeous.
Right. The directing is good. I found the pacing weird, but I was also trying to put myself in a head space where he’s going for a certain type of movie and probably these hammer films and these, these Bava films were probably paced this way. It’s just not what you’re used to. It weirded me out that the movie felt like two different movies.
It felt like there was the first movie where they’re trying to figure out who the killer is. And of course everybody knows it’s the horseman, but. Ichabod Crane Johnny Depp is a man of reason so he can’t accept that and then about halfway through the movie He sees the horseman and so then that mystery is over.
Yeah, so then they introduced a new one
Todd: So it’s like Sherlock Holmes kind of who did it sort of thing?
Craig: Yeah, which is fine. It was just ah, I don’t know Yeah. The movie’s an hour and 45 minutes long. It felt long to me.
Todd: I thought it was two and a half by the time I finished watching it. It would
Craig: never
Todd: end.
Ironically enough, I was just gonna say before you mentioned pacing, that I think that that is one thing that separates this, that makes us feel different from a Hammer Horror movie, and that is the pacing. Even though it’s a bit slow, there’s a lot. There is, it is plot heavy. Oh my god. There are so many characters, and there is so many plots, and so many twists, and so many turns, and so many details, that in that way, It feels kind of fast.
I mean, it’s not like a simple story told over a slow period of time, which is sort of how I feel like the pacing of the old Hammer Horror movies are.
Craig: Yes. Yes.
Todd: And so when you get in that, when you slip into that zone, that mental space, you know, that atmosphere Kind of all that’s left, right? So you’re just wallowing in that atmosphere and that atmosphere, I could say, kind of overtakes you and becomes overworldly and their dream sequences that fill the time and you know, there’s all this stuff.
Clip: Yeah.
Todd: It’s very different from what this is, which like you said, is a plot heavy. First it’s one movie, then it’s another movie. It’s a detective story, it’s a whodunit, there’s got a million names to try to remember and figure out. I got lost halfway through and I stopped even paying attention. I did too.
Yeah, so in that way it’s got this sort of, they’re trying to shoehorn this very simple old story into a more of a, what they feel a modern audience can handle, you know, a more modern sensibility, an updating of it if you will. So instead of Ichabod Crane being this like, school teacher. Who is quite a simple man, but is trying to kind of woo this girl and thinks he’s got a shot at it.
Ichabod Crane’s character in the short story is freaked out by ghost stories. He believes, he’s not a skeptic, he’s the opposite. Oh yeah. He believes all these ghost stories and he’s terrified of everything. To the point where even, maybe even more so than the townspeople, of this already very superstitious town.
And this guy is not that at all. No, it’s very different.
Clip: I am Constable Ichabod Crane. Sent to you from New York to investigate murder in Sleepy Hollow. Then Sleepy Hollow is grateful to you, Constable Crane. And we hope you will honor us by remaining in this house. Well spoke, dear. Well, come, sir. We’ll get you settled.
Clayon!
Todd: And the efforts to make it seem like he’s scared of things and very skittish are really inconsistent. Because on the one hand, he’s a little ill at the sight of blood and jumping up at spiders that are scurrying across the floor. And on the other hand, he’s getting blood squirted in his face by voluntarily, you know, axing at a tree that’s bleeding.
Craig: There’s so much face squirting on Donny Jepp. Like, um, Tim Burton, um, like, There’s a lot of squirting on Johnny Depp’s face. I’m just saying, you might want to tone it down.
Todd: He’s making his love for Donny Jepp a little too obvious in this one, isn’t he? And also, there’s this moment where he’s like, I’m gonna round up a posse of the most able bodied men to go in and after the Headless Horsemen.
At that point, I was just like, okay, it’s not the same story. It’s not at all. That is how I felt about Van Helsing. It was going for this old classic Universal’s monster feel. Of course, they had to update it by making a lot of computer generated effects. I can give that a pass or whatever. But Van Helsing becomes this, like, action superstar.
And the whole movie is just nothing but One action sequence to another which is completely betrays the feeling of those old films So it doesn’t feel at all like those old films and honestly when I was coming to see a movie about Van Helsing and was excited I wasn’t wanting to see Van Helsing as Indiana Jones, so it was, uh, disappointing.
And I kind of felt that way about this, too. I wasn’t coming to see Ichabod Crane as sort of like a Sherlock Holmesian man of reason who slowly becomes to believe in the supernatural, but is able to summon up the courage to have these long, drawn out action sequences where he’s leaping from a horse to a horse to a wagon train and summoning up a posse to single handedly go after, uh, This horseman deep in the dark woods.
That was disappointing.
Craig: Yeah. I, even though some guy on the internet says that I’m too negative, I’m going to, I’m going to go ahead and say it anyway, and I feel, I feel, I feel okay about saying it because Johnny Depp himself. Says he’s not watched this movie because he hates the way he acted in it. I don’t like it either.
Yeah, it’s it’s it’s not like he does anything wrong. He’s fine. I just I was trying to figure this out because I don’t care for him anymore. It’s not just about stuff that’s been about his personal life. That’s been very public. That’s not charming, but Just as an actor, people kind of swoon over him and I just feel like he’s just kind of always the same to me and I feel like whatever he’s in, when everybody else is giving 10, he’s always giving 11.
So like he’s always just a little bit over the top and compared to everybody else and it just
Todd: It throws off the balance. Scene stealing.
Craig: People are gonna disagree with me and that’s totally fine. I understand that I am in the minority here. I, he’s a huge star, he has been for years. I, I respect that. He, just not my cup of tea, that’s all.
I understand if, if you like him, I get it, it’s fine, but I don’t. Dude,
Todd: I’m with you on that, honestly. I love him in the Pirates of the Caribbean movies. I really do. That is one of these situations where doing the wacky character that nobody kind of like was expecting but then it turned out like it was really, it worked.
But then, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, like, it’s the same deal, he’s like, I’m gonna go because I feel like Willy Wonka would be a childlike man so I’m gonna literally try to be as childlike as possible and then over the top and it,
Craig: it sucks. Listen, I hate, I hate it. But I will at least give him credit for making a bold choice.
Todd: Well, that’s my point. He makes bold choices, and I think that is what people like about him, and that is what
Craig: And that’s fair.
Todd: And they’ll say, Oh, well, that means that he’s a great actor. I don’t know. I mean, don’t get me wrong. He’s a great actor. It’s just like, that’s kind of become his shtick.
Craig: Yeah, that’s what I feel like.
It’s It seems a little lazy at this point. I don’t know. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. He’s And like, I, I appreciate the fact that like, you know, in the story, Ichabod Crane is supposed to be like, unattractive, and he offered to wear like prosthetics and stuff to make himself more physically unappealing. And Tim Burton didn’t want to do that.
He wanted to just focus on the unappealing. Aspects of his character, which is fine because he was super annoying and a, a big baby sometimes, like you said, but then at other times, I’m going to lead the charge. Yeah. Yeah. And like you said, there’s, there’s so much, God, we, we couldn’t possibly, if we wanted to, it would take us all day to go through the whole plot, but there are so many notable things like this cast.
Yes. Is. Insane! I know,
Todd: right? I had forgotten. It’s crazy! And, especially in retros actually, not really even in retrospect, because everybody in this was, uh, famous. Famous British actors, surprisingly. At one point, Johnny does Ichabod Crane, when he comes to Sleepy Hollow, he’s Ha ha! He’s a New York detective!
He’s in a room with every famous old man you’ve ever seen. Yeah! He’s in a room I was watching this with Liz, and she said, It’s like a reunion of the cast from Harry Potter. It is. It practically is. But it’s also, to be fair, kind of a reunion of everybody Tim Burton likes to put in his movies ever. So you’ve got, uh, Jeffrey Jones from a bunch of his movies, but you know, Beetlejuice.
Father and Beetlejuice. He plays the local, um, priest guy. Then you’ve got Michael Gambon. Who is the town mayor? What do they call it? Like, the constable? No, he’s just a rich guy. Who has a lot of influence?
Craig: Yeah, he’s everybody’s friend, but also their banker. Yeah. I feel like he’s just the really rich guy who’s maybe a landlord.
Yeah, I think that’s what he is. He’s like a landlord. And
Todd: of course, he’s, Michael Gambon was famously Dumbledore after the first, uh, Dumbledore. Two? First two Harry Potter movies, or first one? I don’t remember. He’s been in a million things. He pulled, um, what’s his name out of retirement? Alfred from, uh, Batman.
Michael Goe? Yes, Michael Goe.
Craig: Ugh, I love him so much. He’s so sweet.
Todd: He’s so, they really do him up in this too, and I guess he wasn’t gonna act anymore after that, but But, uh, he pulled him out of retirement. Yeah, this was, yeah, it was his last,
Craig: and that was it. This was the last one.
Todd: Yeah. Last live action role.
I guess he must’ve done a voice or,
Craig: Oh, right.
Todd: Who else is in there?
Craig: Richard Griffiths, who is magistrate Phillips, who is uncle Vernon from Harry Potter,
Todd: as I watched him slovenly sitting down, slurping things up and eating tea, I’m like, what must it be like? To be the guy, who it’s like, Anytime I need a big disgusting fat man, this is the actor I call, you know?
Craig: And isn’t he the one, like, At some point, he dies, a bunch of people die in this movie, But he, his death scene, he’s like, Walking up a hill, and I was genuinely concerned for him. I, is he going to make it up that hill? Right. Because he’s a big guy and it didn’t look like he got around very well. For sure.
Miranda Richardson plays Mrs. Van Tassel. She has, I mean, all of these people have been in a million things, but the Harry Potter connection she was Rita Skeeter. Casper Van Dien, who I have always loved. I think Casper Van Dien deserves A list. He
Todd: does! Status. And I, I don’t understand why he doesn’t have it, because first of all, he’s just one of the most attractive looking guys in the world.
Yeah. And he’s real built, and he has been in like 150 things. I went to his IMDB page, because I was like, huh, I wonder if he’s like, still working pretty regularly? Oh yeah! For the past ten years, he’s been in like five movies or TV shows a year, at least. It’s kind of insane. But I first saw him in Starship Troopers, and I absolutely loved that movie, and I loved him in it.
Craig: Uh huh.
Todd: And so that would be a little closer to this one, right? I think 1997 was Starship Troopers. And that was, I think about his breakout role, right?
Craig: I guess that should have made him a huge star.
Todd: It did more for, uh, what’s her name? Denise Richards. Denise Richards than it did for him. And I was shocked.
Well, I mean, if you’ve got to choose between the two, I’m not terribly shocked.
Craig: I get it.
Todd: You know my, uh, my Denise Richards fascination, right?
Craig: I do. I get it. She’s a beautiful, beautiful woman. Christina Ricci plays Katrina Van Tussle. Casper Van Dien plays Brom Bones, by the way. Vom Van Brunt in this.
Todd: He’s like the Gaston of this.
Craig: He totally is! Oh, we’ll talk more about that later. But Christina Ricci plays Katrina Van Tussle, who’s the daughter of the rich guy or whatever.
And they, I just, there are things about it that I love. I love that they live in like a big Gothic mansion that just looks like a backdrop.
Clip: This land we’re looking at was Van Garret land given to my father when I was in Swadling Close. The Van Garrets were the richest family around these parts. When my father brought us to Sleepy Hollow, Van Garret set him up with an acre in a broken down cottage.
My father worked hard for his family, and prospered, and built this house. And I owe my happiness to him.
Craig: Okay, so Winona Ryder was at, was offered this role and she turned it down, I assume because her relationship with Johnny Depp had gone sour.
Todd: Oh really?
Craig: Well, I assume so, I don’t think they were still dating at this time, I can’t imagine why else she would have turned it down.
Maybe she just had something else going on, I don’t know, maybe they were still together. They were together for a long time, they were like a hot couple. And
Todd: weren’t their ages pretty close?
Craig: I think he was older than her. And I think that they got together when she was very young, so Yeah, yeah. But, but, they, you know, they were a serious couple.
I love the story that he tattooed Wynonna forever on himself. And then when they broke up, he had it changed to Wino forever. I love that. I love that story. But he was Johnny Depp was like thrown to, I mean, mentally, like he was thrown when he found out he was gonna be playing a romantic part opposite Christina Ricci because he was significantly older than her and knew her since she was a little girl because he was dating Winona Ryder at the time that they were filming Mermaids.
And Christina Ricci was a, Child in that movie. Yes. I get it.
Todd: Yeah.
Craig: That’s funny. You want to hear a personal story? One time I was in a play.
Todd: With, with Christina Ricci? Go on. With
Craig: Christina Ricci. No, I, I got cast opposite one of my former students in a romantic role. Oh no. And we had to kiss a bunch. Oh my god.
Todd: That had to be strange.
Craig: It should have been, but It wasn’t like she was still a child like, you know, she was in her 20s at this point, right? and it should have been weird, but I Obviously platonically loved her so much and like we worked so well together that it wasn’t weird at all. That’s sweet. Um, for us, like her classmates from when she was in school, we’re like, Oh, God,
Todd: could
Craig: you imagine?
Right?
Todd: Mr. Higgins. Am I our English teacher?
Craig: But for us, it was fine. She was wonderful. She was one of the most amazing acting partners I’ve ever worked with. But yeah, I mean, it was a little weird. So I get it. I get where you’re Johnny Depp is coming from. Oh, we didn’t mention Christopher Lee is in it for about two minutes in the beginning
Todd: and apparently Christopher Lee in his memoirs Credited this film as being the one that were kind of reintroduced him to a new generation and he thinks it was directly responsible for him getting the roles in both Phantom Menace and Lord of the Rings?
Lord of the Rings, yeah. But Phantom Menace was filming around this time, so I don’t know if he just shot his scenes here early, or What the deal was? I’m not I’m not sure about all that, but
Craig: Well, he surely could have shot all of his scenes in a day or two. Oh yeah,
Todd: this was shot, yeah, in a In a hot minute, but this movie hadn’t even been out yet, and I think, well, Star Wars had wrapped, but I don’t think Star Yeah, Star Wars was coming out around the same year, 1999 2000.
But anyway, yeah, he thought that his role in this was significant. And I think Tim Burton just cast him because he was over the moon happy to cast one of his childhood heroes, you know, in Oh, absolutely. He threw him in there. I mean, if Vincent Price had been alive You know, he would have cast him in a movie too.
Well, he did. He cast him in, uh, Edward Scissorhands. But, uh
Clip: There is a town upstate, two days journey to the north in the Hudson Highlands. It is a place called Sleepy Hollow. Have you heard of it? I have not. An isolated farming community, mainly Dutch. Three persons have been murdered there all within a fortnight.
Each one found with the head lopped off. Lopped off? Clean as dandelion heads, apparently. You will take these experimentations of yours too, Sleepy Hollow. And there you will detect the murderer.
Craig: Well, and the casting of him and Michael Goh, like, really kind of adds to the authenticity and credibility of the movie and, and of what Tim Burton was trying to do.
Right. You know, like, it’s, it’s obvious that he’s a legitimate fan. Of these types of movies. He loves them. He’s doing this because he loves it. And he wants to, I think that shows in, in the care that was taken and the thought that was put in again, I can’t say enough. I don’t think it’s a bad movie. I think it’s really a very, very well made movie.
Just not, just didn’t work for me. Um, the only other one that we haven’t mentioned, I think is the very first person that we see on screen is uncredited Martin Landau.
Todd: He did it as a favor, I hear, to the cinematographer who directed those. I think it was the cinematographer of the movie who actually directed those initial scenes, um, not Tim Burton himself.
In fact, we might as well talk about this, too. Tim Burton wasn’t originally slated to direct this either. This movie came out in 99, but it started development in 93 with a script that had been written by Andrew Kevin Walker. Andrew Kevin Walker is the guy who wrote Seven, but even at this time, Seven hadn’t been picked up yet, but the script was floating around, and on the basis of reading that script and being impressed with it, some executives at Paramount got this screenplay, and because horror was getting kind of big right now.
I don’t know, like four years before here, this Bram Stoker’s Dracula came out. Scream had come out a few years before this as well. So horror was becoming a little more mainstream at this point. So I think they were looking for this kind of thing. And, uh, originally Kevin Yeager was going to direct it.
Kevin Yeager is an effects artist and he’s probably most famously known for doing, well, a number of things, but he, I love him because he did the Crypt Keeper. Puppet, and puppetry in the Tales from the Crypt series. But he’s done, you know, he did the effects for Starship Troopers, and lots of other things.
Loads of, uh, Freddy Krueger’s makeup, starting with the second one. So yeah, he was a veteran of the industry, but he never directed, and so he, this was gonna be his, uh, directorial, sort of, debut. But once things snowballed, I think the studio wanted to pull Tim Burton in it. Depending on what you read, either he got demoted, or he voluntarily said, step down because he was excited that Tim Burton was involved and just slipped back into the role of doing prosthetics and effects for the movie.
But it was originally just supposed to be like a low budget slasher movie and even the violence in the script had to eventually be toned down. They hired Tom Stoppard. And he’s not credited for it, but he did significant rewrites on the script to tone down the violence and ramp up the humor. And I’m surprised, like, I mean, it must have been pretty violent, because I, I, for a Tim Burton movie anyway, for a mainstream movie starring Johnny Depp and all these stars and directed by Tim Burton, I’m shocked at how much violence is in it.
Craig: It’s very violent, but they’re clever. So anytime the Headless Horseman. I guess we’re just kind of assuming that people know the general story. But anytime the Headless Horseman kills somebody, decapitates them, or whatever, stabs them through the gut to decapitate their unborn fetus, Um, anytime Anytime he does that, their wounds are immediately cauterized.
Yeah. So there’s no blood. So silly. Except when blood shoots out of like, uh, cadaver, I think, maybe, at one point, and a tree, a bleeding tree, at another point, directly onto Johnny Depp’s They, like, during the actual kills, there’s really no blood.
Todd: Yeah, I guess that makes it better. I mean, certainly it makes it a little better, but
Craig: Except, I mean, I guess when there is human on, like, non supernatural entity, if no supernatural entity is involved, there may be blood.
Like, at the end, a couple of those famous old guys die. Knock each other on the head. Oh, that’s true.
Todd: Or something like that. Oh boy. Still, when I started it, I was thinking, Oh, maybe this will be something in a year or two, I’ll show Kenji. And then I thought, no, this is not for children really. This is a. No, no, no, it is pretty dark. Yeah, it’s not, it doesn’t fit in the rest of our lineup so far with the, of Halloween as far as the, in between the worst witch and the Goosebumps.
TV, Goosebumps and Dark Night of the Scarecrow TV movie.
Craig: Yeah. Yeah, it is, it’s, it’s more violent than I expected. I don’t know, but there’s, there’s something about it, about the violence that, feels almost quaint. Like it, it feels it’s, it’s almost no worse than the violence that you would see in the old movies, the old hammer movies.
I, now I re I don’t know specifics, but I read that Burton wanted to use as few digital effects as possible, but of course they had to use some digital effects. Like this was the only. filmed version of this story where the headless horseman didn’t have to hide his head underneath the cape like they They computed it out.
They computed his head out But when you see as you often do somebody get decapitated and their head rolling on the ground It’s, it’s CGI. At least some of it. At least they’ve cleaned it up with CGI. I don’t know, it just, it didn’t feel scary to me. I definitely got the vibe. Like, this, this movie is a great vibe.
It’s a great Halloween vibe. Put it on in the background at a party, at a Halloween party.
Todd: You haven’t broken that one out in a while.
Craig: Because there’s great, like everything is a great visual, like if it was just on in the background, anytime you looked at it, it’s going to look great. It’s going to be a great vibe. And, and those rolling heads, they’re a great vibe, but they almost look more like a Halloween gag than. Something really scary.
You know what I’m saying? Yeah, I
Todd: mean,
Craig: they don’t
Todd: look fake. I mean, the prosthetics are actually really quite good. I thought in several cases, very convincing. But, you’re right. It’s, I guess it’s kind of a gruesome, dark joke always when a head rolls towards someone, you know? Or the heads are rolling around on the ground.
Right, but
Craig: you’re not seeing, like, viscera, like, coming out of their neck, you know?
Todd: Yeah, it’s like they’re spurting blood and, you know, the look on their faces. Right, right, right. Yeah, it’s true. Right. Right. Right. Anyway, a lot of heads roll in this movie, that’s for sure. And for that reason, I wouldn’t show it to my kids.
Despite the fact there’s no blood squirting around, the idea of people getting their heads chopped off right and left, quite brutally, really, you know, in these very brutal fight scenes, you know, full of energy and, and I think rather convincing.
Craig: Yeah, yeah, yeah. There’s a great fight scene with Ichabod. And the headless horseman, which again, doesn’t make any sense.
Like why is Ichabod suddenly jumping into a sword fight? Like it doesn’t, Brom is butch and, and is trying to prove himself or whatever. He’s a dummy for getting into a fight with a supernatural thing that you can’t kill. I mean, I guess he doesn’t know that despite the fact that it has no head. But that’s, that’s one, that’s one part that I really liked.
That was, that’s a great fight scene. It goes on for a long time and there are some surprises in it. I loved the part where they’re standing, looking through the bridge. Like the legend is the Hessian or the Headless Horseman or whatever, can’t cross this bridge. And so they’ve just fought him on one side of the bridge and run to the other side and they’re standing on the other side, looking through and they hear.
Footsteps, but they don’t see anything and in my mind. I’m thinking. Oh my gosh is is he like invisible now? Can he do that? But no, it’s it’s far more logical and practical He’s just walking across the roof and then he jumps down right in front of them But I thought that was a really effective scare.
Yeah, and then they have a big fight a huge choreographed long Like sword fight with different weapons and stuff. And in the end, Brum gets sliced in half. Oh God. It’s crazy. So there are a lot of great things in this movie like that. And because we have clearly already blown our opportunity to talk about this.
From start to finish. I feel like maybe we should just start talking about what are some of our favorite things about this movie
Todd: Well, I’ll tell you all right laying aside the fact that Ichabod is like not really Ichabod that I know He’s investigating things and he’s trying to figure things out What I didn’t really care for was all the investigation in the movie because after a while I got so lost I didn’t I couldn’t keep track of These two families and he would see a clue in a book or a family tree or he would see some symbol and He’d get a knowing look on his face like he sorted something out, and I’d be like, What?
Did I forget something? Or am I just not following closely enough? Am I supposed to understand these connections that are being made? I just kind of gave up, and I think it turned out I didn’t, it didn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. The movie will just eventually tell you, and it doesn’t, and that’s fine.
Craig: To be fair, it all lines up.
Yeah. But it is very, it is very contrived. It is a very complicated web they weave, but everybody is connected in some way and they’ll explain it to you in great detail. When necessary.
Todd: When necessary. There will be a nice monologue to put everything into place.
Craig: Yeah. Even at the very end, when the villain, it, as it turns, okay, so the first half of the movie is the regular story basically, which of course.
There’s a headless horseman and people are scared of it, blah, blah, blah. And then Ichabod’s scared of it and it confronts him on a bridge. And that’s the end of the regular story in the movie. Then they figure out who he is. He’s some spirit that’s coming back from this tree. The tree of the dead, he, he bursts forth out of this tree supernaturally every night and just steals somebody’s head.
And then they figured out who it is. Now we know that it really is him. Then the second half becomes a mystery because somehow Johnny Depp figures out that it’s not really just the Headless Horseman, but somebody is controlling him because they stole his skull out of his grave, buried at the tree, and he just wants his own skull back.
And so that’s why he’s going around killing people. So somebody is controlling him. And when it’s revealed who the. who the villain is, that person then gives a huge monologue that connects all of the pieces.
Todd: Information that is deliberately withheld from you until she can give her monologue and her big reveal
Craig: Well, one of the things that I was very confused by I did understand like all of the old men All of like the town old men who are in charge of everything all of them were connected and I got that there were like sex scandals and All kinds of things going on there.
I understood all that the one thing that I didn’t understand and i’m glad Because this was also another One of my favorite parts of the movie was there was a young family, a husband and a wife and a child, a young child. Like a baby, like a four year old, I guess, maybe, or tiny. And she was a midwife and we, we saw her early on in the movie.
She and her family popped back up later. And then there’s just one scene where the headless horseman just goes after them. Breaks into their house. Yeah. Yes. And, and the mom and the child. are in the back and he just like he fights the dad and then he cuts the dad’s head off and then the mom puts the kid under the floor and The headless horseman just like relentlessly comes for her and chops her head off, too.
Now Mind you, the kid is under the floor, but he can see everything that’s going on. I was Shocked. Yes, like I was I was shook This was so dark to me
Todd: Her head falls to the floor rolls towards a gap in the floorboards to the point where he’s looking up into her dead eyes
Craig: I, I was genuinely shocked. And then the horseman starts to walk out, but he stops in the doorframe and turns around, and goes back in and starts axing through the floor right above the baby.
And you don’t see
Todd: it on camera, but he kills that baby too. Yeah, you, all you see is, it’s the outside and the horseman’s coming out of the house and he’s stuffing a third smaller head into his sack. Oh my
Craig: god! I, uh, mad respect to Tim Burton for doing that, and I read that he said that’s one thing that he hates about horror movies.
Horror movies with kids, the kids are safe, and he didn’t want to do that, and man, that was dark. I was, I, I was legitimately shocked.
Todd: It’s amazing it made it into the final cut because you could have easily cut that. Like, it was almost shot with the idea that it could possibly get cut. And it didn’t. It’s amazing.
Craig: Yeah, it, oh, absolutely. They could have easily cut with him just walking out before he stopped in the door frame. Okay, so that was a part that I loved. I’ll volley it to you. There are other parts I want to talk about, but what were your favorite parts? There’s
Todd: the part where he goes out and the only, I can’t remember what this kid’s relationship was, this, this little boy.
that he ends up kind of partnering with.
Craig: Okay, so his, his dad was the servant of one of the guys that got killed early on. He was Martin Landau’s servant. Oh,
Todd: okay.
Craig: And then he got killed too. Oh,
Todd: okay. So it’s kind of a little orphan kid now.
Craig: He’s a little orphan and, and Ichabod takes him on as a servant, basically adopts him.
Todd: Yeah, okay. So then he’s the only one who’s willing to go into the woods with him to seek down the headless horseman because he figures if he can find him, I don’t know what he’s hoping for, but he’s just gonna try to find him. So he wanders into the woods and it’s just great because it’s just all of these very typical horror movie things.
They come across an old hut in the woods and it looks exactly like a witch’s hut, a fact that they walk into and immediately start stating. It’s a
Craig: cave. It is.
Todd: It’s like a cave in a rock just in the middle of the woods, but not in the side of a mountain or anything, just. Sticking out of the ground and they go in and it’s so funny because you walk in and it’s a classic witches hut and immediately Ichabod is shaking and he holds his gun up and he’s
Clip: like I should like to say that I make no assumptions about your occupation.
No your ways which which which which Nothing to me whatever you are
Craig: Each to his own
Yeah, it was really funny.
Todd: But anyway, I thought this sequence was genuinely scary, and I really liked this bit. I did too. It’s kind of thrown in there, but uh, it just gives him the necessary direction he needs. Because how in the world is he going to find this headless horseman just by walking straight into the woods?
So, the witch is able to chain herself to a table and conjure up a drink. this thing and I mean even this is pretty like again for kids especially pretty gruesome like oh yeah too scary chops the foot off of a of a bird and gets possessed by some spirit of something and leaps onto him and I don’t know what that was I mean it’s all kind of she
Craig: she turns all ghosty faced and like Snakes come out of her eyes.
Her eyes disappear
Todd: somehow. Anyway, loved that bit. Very Halloween. Very scary. Very fun. And she’s the one who tells him the directions, which is to go west on the Old trail to where the sun dies. Well, that’s West. And then, uh, to the, to the tree of the dead. Now, I guess they don’t explore these woods too much, right?
Cause you would think the locals would know all about the tree of the dead, but the tree of the dead is deep into the woods and it’s this giant, awesome looking tree that kind of looks a little bit like a. Man or, you know, something twisted sideways and it’s got all these roots at the bottom and when Ichabod walks up to it You can see the tree itself is bleeding and I just I liked this bit.
I thought yeah, I did too You know what’s gonna happen when they find the grave of this of this horseman? Is he gonna not be in the grave? Is he gonna be around the grave? Like Now they can come back to it, like, what’s the deal? Can they just, like, chop off the body or like, what, what’s gonna happen? And the fact, I think the conceit is that once the Headless Horseman was buried there, this Tree of the Dead kind of grew up around it and became a gateway to hell?
Craig: A gateway to another world is what, or another dimension or something, is what Ichabod Crane just figures out.
Todd: On instinct,
Craig: right? Yeah, yeah. But he’s right, because the, that’s the, like, gate, the, like, the tree opens up and the horse and the horseman just gallop out of it. And it looks cool, I like it, that’s fun.
That was awesome. I also think that it’s cool that, like, the horseman, every time he, He takes somebody’s head, he literally takes it, like he, he doesn’t leave it behind, but apparently, I don’t really understand this, but I guess, like, mortal flesh can’t cross over, because the heads are all just there at the gate.
Todd: Yeah.
Craig: And that’s, he finds them there, and then at the end It’s
Todd: like a little head storage place, it’s like he’s squirreling them away like acorns inside the tree, it’s kind of
Craig: Well, I actually thought it was that he was trying to take it with him, but he couldn’t. Oh! The gate cuts. stuck at the front and that kind of explains the very end, right?
Todd: Oh, I think I missed that bit, but you’re right.
Craig: Yeah. I think he, he tries to take them, but he can’t. There’s no need to tease. We’re almost out of time at the very end. We find out who the bad guy who’s been controlling. The horseman is, and that person, I’ll still save it I guess, that person, he grabs and tries to take back with him, but that person gets, like, squashed, like blood just shoots out of the tree and their arm is just left hanging.
Todd: Sticking out. Yeah. Oh, that makes sense then. Okay, I wasn’t quite sure what that was supposed to mean, and now I know.
Craig: Something else that I liked. was the throwbacks to the Disney cartoon. And there were several of them, and I loved that. At one point, Ichabod is going over the bridge, and the frogs underneath the bridge are
Clip: going, Ichabod!
And
Craig: that comes directly from the cartoon, the iconic scene, the scene that they would tease in the commercials every Halloween with the headless horseman rearing his horse up on its hind legs and him headless with a flaming jack o lantern held over his head. They recreate that scene in this and he throws it at Ichabod and it does exactly what the Disney cartoon does with the camera is just right in front of the flaming jack o lantern as it’s moving forward and then it hits Ichabod.
Oh God, I loved that. And in that scene, it turns out that that was not really the headless horseman. That was Brom playing a trick on Ichabod. And that is the reality of the story. Or at least that’s what’s strongly implied. Yeah. That Brom was just playing a trick on Ichabod, but Ichabod was so scared and humiliated that he left town and started a new life.
So I loved that. Didn’t love Christina Ricci. I love Christina Ricci. I am like one of the biggest fans of Christina Ricci. I love her. I didn’t care for her in this movie. Maybe it was just because she was cast opposite. He, I don’t know. It’s not, she just looked like a child to me. It
Todd: was really hard to get over that.
Craig: So it was weird to think of her. It was weird to think of her in any kind of romantic context because she looked like a child. But
Todd: you know, I was thinking about that and It’s not unusual for the time Either this was a time where men in their 20s were marrying 14 year olds, right? That’s true. That’s true So it wasn’t improper, but it just doesn’t feel right when you’re seeing it from a modern in a modern day movie
Craig: well, and their I I felt like their romance was so forced like they barely shared any screen time and like they Immediately fell in love and like she had known him for five seconds before she gave him You A book that her mother had passed down to her?
Like
Todd: Yeah.
Craig: That’s true.
Todd: Whatever. But she’s also more of a plot device, I think, than anything else. True. Because there’s constantly suspicion being cast back and forth as to whether or not she might have something to do with what’s going on. And so, you know, there’s sort of that aspect to it as well. I don’t know.
I didn’t mind her in this movie. I just didn’t think she was that great. Just like, I thought Johnny Depp was a bit uneven and in all this, or maybe just his character was. I just loved seeing all the old, older actors. It was
Craig: just, it was so
Todd: great.
Craig: Yeah. I don’t know. Maybe we’ll think of more things to talk about, but I’m just going to go ahead and say, I think that you should 100 percent watch this movie.
Because I think that you listener might like it more than I did. It is a good movie. All of these people in it are, you know, there are, there are Oscar winners in it. There are Oscar nominees in it. These are established, respectable. Actors and for a good reason and and Tim Burton is great just to see all of these old guys
Todd: Yeah,
Craig: you’ve seen in a million things, but then also to see Really great set work.
It’s it’s it’s so difficult for me because I really have no Specific legitimate complaints. It just didn’t work for me for whatever reason but you should 100 percent watch it and then let us know what you think Cause I am genuinely curious. I don’t hear people talking about this movie. It’s not like I think it’s some kind of classic or even like a cult thing.
Yeah. Um, it, it seems to me like it kind of came and went. It’s true. So I don’t know. If you’re a big fan, please, please just tell me what, why I’m wrong.
Todd: Yeah. It’s funny that you should mention that actually, because come to think of it, I’ve always been aware of this movie. And I think in my mind, this movie was a big deal when it came out.
And maybe it was, it certainly grossed a lot. Like 200 and some million over the course of the year, plus who knows what else. But at the same time But if I really think about it, I haven’t heard or seen much of it since. I mean, there’s a lot of movies from this era that we haven’t. I mean, No. Does anybody talk about Bram Stoker’s Dracula anymore?
Craig: Nerds like me do, but I don’t really hear a lot of talk about this one. And, this would be, you know, we have been in the Thick of the time of year where streaming services and cable services are going out of their way to provide horror and specifically Halloween content. This seems like this would be ideal.
Yes. I haven’t seen it. I
Todd: haven’t either. It was hard to find. You’re right. So, uh, seek it out wherever you can. Definitely watch it. Definitely. That’s our hot take on it. Anyway, I guess I’m, you know, I didn’t, I didn’t really like particularly love it, but I certainly didn’t hate it. It just wasn’t, it wasn’t even what I remembered it being, to be quite frank with you.
And I’m not quite sure why. So, but, but still dripping with Halloween atmosphere.
Craig: Oh yeah. I love that stuff. Like, Jack o lanterns. The very, very first scene has a great. Big scarecrow with a jack o lantern head and I read that it was the Scarecrow from the nightmare before christmas.
Todd: Yeah, it’s exactly that one.
It’s cool.
Craig: And there’s a big halloween party It’s a great halloween party
Todd: Like you said, I encourage our listeners to respond and let us know what they think of this movie and give us some perspectives that maybe we lack here. The way you can do that, to let us know, is just to go to our website, ChainsawHorror.
com. We have all of our episodes up there, including this one. You can leave a comment on it, or of course, you can just search for our podcast anywhere. Two guys and a chainsaw podcast is what we’ll send you to any one of our places. Of course, all of the podcast hosting services, our YouTube channel has a comment section on it as well.
And of course, I just mentioned our patrons page, uh, patreon. com slash chainsaw podcast. If you are at all, a member of our patrons, you’re going to be having a lot of fun with us this Halloween because we have a few mini shows that we’ve been posting as supplements to what we’ve been doing. I’m really looking forward actually to talking about this cartoon and the story behind it as well.
So get in on that action, patreon. com slash chainsaw. podcast. There’s no better time than now. Until next time, I’m Todd and I’m Craig with Two Guys and a Chainsaw
Anything can happen on Halloween. And growing up isn’t easy. Today’s episode explores the 1986 made-for-TV special, The Worst Witch, with Craig and his sister, Kristen, mostly reminiscing about how it has haunted them since childhood.
With its catchy Broadway-style songs, all-star cast (including Tim Curry as the Grand Wizard), and super-cheesy 80’s green screen special effects, this family-friendly flick follows the mishaps of Mildred (Fairuza Balk) as she clumsily bumbles her way through witch school – but ultimately saves the day in the end, of course.
We also talk about the links between this film (based on a bestselling children’s book series) and the Harry Potter franchise, and Craig and Kristen sing a duet or two. It’s an episode for the whole family. Enjoy!
Episode 411, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast
Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.
Craig: And I’m Craig.
Todd: And joining us today is longtime friend of the podcast and personal friend of mine. This is Craig’s sister, Kristen. Say hello to the people, Kristen.
Kristen: Hello, people, and happy spooky season! Yeee! Halloween!
Todd: We’ve had you on here several times before.
Let’s see, what have we all talked about? We’ve talked about the world ending movie, the home invasion one.
Kristen: Home invasions, yes. Did I do the Monster Squad? I think I did the Monster Squad. Did you? Yeah. I’m pretty sure.
Todd: We, we brought you in for a couple of, at least a couple that you and Craig used to watch incessantly growing up.
And because today’s episode is the long requested by many, many of our listeners over the course of probably every year, I think we’ve done this podcast practically during Halloween season, we’re doing the worst witch, uh, TV show special from 1986. You and Craig, I understand watched this a lot growing up and that’s why we’ve got you on.
Thank you.
Kristen: Yes, probably millions of times.
Todd: Wow. I’m not
Kristen: even exaggerating.
Todd: Millions of times. Well, twice
Kristen: already in the last month.
Todd: It’s even continuing into adulthood. I gotta admit to you guys, I’ve never seen this or heard of it before in my life.
Craig: What now I can understand maybe not seeing it, but I can’t understand that even knowing about it.
I mean, I heard, I
Todd: knew about it when we started doing this podcast. And every time we asked for a Halloween possibilities, somebody comes out of the woodwork. If not a half a dozen people are like, are you going to do the worst witch? I just, I just remember that so much from my childhood. It’s such a goofy movie.
And I’m like, what is that? And I had to look it up.
Kristen: I’m so happy to hear that people have requested this because I kept telling Craig, what in the world would we do? Talk about, this is not a horror movie, only an hour long. I had such anxiety about it that I had nightmares last night. I dreamt that we were all together and that Todd was being really passive aggressive the whole time.
And you just, you kept bringing out buckets of Halloween candy. Like, I really didn’t want to get this out. I really need this for tomorrow. But you just didn’t know what else to do. So I think my subconscious was worried that this would go terribly wrong.
Todd: I want to see that movie. This
Kristen: No,
Todd: I just Seriously, like, people request it all the time, and I just I guess it aired on HBO?
It was It was done in 86, but it was a British Production, or at least it was produced in Britain. And it did show at least a little bit on some television over there, but then immediately, I think it was commissioned for HBO. And so HBO was showing it every year up until the mid 90s. Yeah. And the Disney Channel as well, I think.
Did you see it? Would you guys have seen it on HBO or the Disney Channel? Or where would you guys have seen it?
Craig: HBO for sure. And at some point we videotaped it, but I do remember that they played it every Halloween. Um, and they would like tease it. Like they would show clips from it to tease it. Oh gosh.
So exciting.
Kristen: Yeah. I would have said that we recorded it off of like a free week trial week. Yes. Yeah. And then that’s probably right.
Todd: We did so much of that HBO and the Disney channel, you know, you get that free preview weekend or whatever, if you are a cable subscriber and it would, it’d also be like, they’d throw their best stuff up there, you know, cause they’re trying to get you to subscribe.
So you’d have that VH. We always had a tape ready to record, like everything that was coming on. And, and you’re right. Those would be our staples. Those would be the things that my sisters and I. Would pop in whenever we wanted to watch something. And so we would, we’d watch the same things over and over again with the same commercials.
Craig: I’ve been excited about talking about this for like weeks, but I’ve been thinking about it. And Kristen and I watched this so many times, not entirely, but in part out of necessity, I wonder, and Kristen, I’m glad you’re here. Cause you have kids. You can tell us, do kids have these things anymore? Do they have these things that they watch over and over and over again?
And.
Todd: Well,
Craig: have like strong connections to because they’re so inundated with media from every angle They don’t they don’t have the necessity of rewatching things because there’s always something new to watch.
Kristen: Yeah, so my kids are older now They’re 16 and 13 But we certainly my son Kai had movies when he was a kid that he wanted to watch over and over again like the spy kid Franchise he loved those and we would watch them over and over and over but Once we were like giving them iPads it kind of ends it like he will not even watch a movie these days We’ll say we want to watch it.
Like I don’t watch movies and it’s true. He watches YouTube and he watches tik tok He won’t watch movies, but they watch stuff. They’re just not interested in movies and it’s really sad This was like our whole childhood and even now it’s we really enjoy doing it
Todd: You know, my son is seven, and we have purposely tried not to inundate him with media, you know?
And we’re very deliberate about what we, what he watches and what we let him watch. But we, but we try to be reasonable about it, you know? We don’t want to isolate this poor kid so he gets to school and, you know, nobody knows, you know, he can’t relate to anybody because he doesn’t know what anything is.
But that said, like, I’ve seen these tendencies with him too. It may be a little too early to tell cause he’s only seven, but he’s in second grade. And the other day when he was over here, he, we, we put in a movie that I thought he would like, I don’t remember what it was. And the first thing out of his mouth was, Oh, This is a real person movie.
I don’t like to watch real person movies, daddy. What he meant was live action. You know, he’s so cartoon centered, but also like YouTube centered, like he watches Minecraft videos. And again, we are very frugal, you know, with what we allow him to, we don’t give him free reign over YouTube and it’s actually a treat for him.
But I, I see that pattern, you know, I, I even see that with myself. It sounds weird, but it’s a bit of a commitment to sit down for an hour and a half when, when you’ve got little bits and snippets of things that you can watch throughout the day at your fingertips, you know?
Kristen: Right, but then you’ll realize you’ve been looking at, like, YouTube or scrolling on something for like three hours.
An hour and a half, right! I guess I could have watched a whole movie. My daughter will still watch movies with me. She loves Halloween. And so, um, I had just listened to your Goosebumps episode and I was like, I can’t believe I haven’t watched Goosebumps. I read all those R. L. Stine books when I was a kid.
So Keely and I watched that yesterday and we both loved it. So she’ll still watch the occasional movie with me.
Craig: Well, that’s good. I can’t even get Alan to watch movies too long. Well, he has, I considered asking him to, uh, rewatch it with me, but he wasn’t. Interested. So no, I didn’t make him watch it this time around, but well, I certainly still enjoyed it because you’ve never seen it before and I’m hesitant to even ask because I told you going in, I said, Todd, it’s not a good movie.
It is. Looks old as hell. The like, it’s a made for TV movie from the eighties. And like the effects are like, they are just green screening the shit out of everything. Um, So I, I’m hesitant to ask, but what did you
Todd: think? Well, don’t forget. I put it on the list, right? Like, uh, that’s true. You did, you picked it.
I fully understood what I was getting into because this is no different in many ways than all of those TV movies. That we would see from this era 1986 square in the middle of the 80s Cheaply produced, you know, the special effects are going to be cheap They’re going to be video the thing was was it shot on video some of it was definitely shot on video Some of it was clearly shot on film, but again cheap video green screen effects God, even the copy that We found to watch is just again.
I felt like I was back in front of my, you know, 10 inch screen. Was that’s as good as it gets. I have it on DVD. Oh, really? That’s what it always looks like. Still no better. It always looks the same. You can’t clean up a picture. Like you just can’t. It would, because when people clean up movies, it’s, they take them back to the pristine original, you know, those, those original negatives.
They were nice, you know, with a nice, well shot frame. Movie on film even a low budget one, but you know this crap shot for TV is half TV cameras And I mean, it’s just cheap So it’s never gonna look good unless you get some AI in here to like add add elements that were never there in the first Place. So yeah, I knew exactly what I was getting into and I was fully prepared for it I was surprised when I started watching it.
I was like, this is Harry Potter 1. 0 Um, so the girl
Kristen: version,
Todd: it is, it’s the girl and I mean, come on, there’s so many elements in here of Harry Potter that I had to wonder, was this a genre that JK Rowling just kind of picked up on and ran with? Or certainly she was directly inspired by this in some way, shape or form.
Craig: Yes. Then troll.
Todd: Yeah. You talked about that too. Troll.
Craig: This is jumping way ahead, but this is. Uh, one of three screen adaptations of a children’s book series that began in the late seventies. And I knew Kristen, you had said that you saw that there was a series. I just assumed that you were talking about the one that happened.
I don’t remember pre 2000, more recently two series. Yeah. Yeah. I
Kristen: think that’s a new one.
Craig: That’s what I’m saying. There is, well, it’s not new, but it started in 2017. And just out of curiosity, I popped it on right before we started talking and Mildred Hubble is played by Bella Ramsey. The girl from The Last of Us?
Todd: Really?
Kristen: I don’t, I don’t, I haven’t seen that. No kidding.
Todd: The main girl from The Last of Us.
Kristen: Yes, the main person.
Todd: That would work. They
Craig: are non binary, but the main person from The Last of Us is Mildred Hubble in that. And, and literally I, I just popped it on right before we got on. So I only watched like 10 minutes, but it felt even more Harry Potter.
Like she’s just a normal girl in her apartment and she happens to see witches flying towards this castle, but nobody else can see them. And then one of them, Maude, who is also a character in this. movie that we watched.
Kristen: One of my favorite characters. Like, me
Craig: too. She’s my favorite.
Kristen: I already want to talk about my favorite line, which is in the very beginning when they’re going in to take their potions test and Mildred says, But that’s cheating.
’cause she’s gonna take in her book and she’s like, right, . I just love her. She’s funky, she’s
Craig: hilarious. And she’s got Mildred’s back all the time. I don’t know, I guess we should start at the beginning. Yeah. I,
Todd: I never answered your question, but I suppose that’ll get answered as we go along, . Uh, well, generally speaking, you have, do you under,
Kristen: do you have to pretend you’re a child?
I do. Exactly.
Craig: I do. See it from our point of view. Yes. Like you saw this when you were a kid.
Todd: A hundred percent. And, and I could even put myself there, you know? And I think that’s the saving grace of all of this is that, you know, I remember watching shows like this and loving shows like this. Even though I had not watched and loved this particular one, I totally get it.
You know, none of the aesthetic really bothered me too much. In fact, it was a little nostalgic and kind of quaint to go back and remember, oh yeah, this is what it was. And then. When Tim Curry comes on screen, my eyes are, you know, three inches away because I love Tim Curry to death. No matter what he’s in, I will watch that man.
And then he started his musical number and I was so full of joy.
Kristen: What you were being for Halloween this, Oh my God.
Todd: Yes.
Kristen: As soon as you see the grand high wizard, I
Todd: just need
Kristen: song and dance.
Todd: Yes, and I will prance around just like he did and spin and have that cape with the extended it. It’s like you hold these rods and you know, your cape extends beyond your hands into these rods.
You, oh, come on.
Kristen: It also kind of reminds me of like ribbon dancers. Yeah. With their ribbons. It’s like this. Yeah.
Todd: I’ve seen this. What it
Kristen: was. Todd, I don’t know if you ever, when, in your childhood, went someplace like Six Flags, for example, and they had the room you went in with all your cousins, and you made a music video.
And it was a big green screen, and it was exactly what his number was. Oh, yes,
Todd: exactly. Yeah, the booths, right? Where they were like, you’d pay extra. Yeah, and you can
Kristen: bet your bottom dollar. We have done that before.
Todd: With this song?
Kristen: No, with this song. They didn’t have that in the book. Oh, I
Todd: thought you were gonna drop this bombshell on me, but yeah.
Oh no, yeah, 100%. That’s exactly
Craig: what this was.
Todd: I
Craig: would pay a thousand dollars if we could find that video. Oh my god, I
Kristen: know. Our name was the Tidal Wave 5. I remember.
Craig: Wow. Oh, man. That
Todd: brings
Craig: me back. And we did
Kristen: old time rock and roll.
Craig: Oh, God. God. I remember doing it, but I couldn’t, I didn’t remember what we did.
Oh, that’s funny. The thing
Kristen: is, guys, these are the things, like, we do these things with our cousins. We watch this movie with our cousins all the time. And we had so much fun growing up. watching these crappy movies. They weren’t crappy then, we thought they were the best thing ever, but this was our childhood.
Todd: We sound like old people when we say this stuff, but we
Craig: are, we, I mean, we’re not old,
Todd: we’re not getting
Craig: older though. And it’s, it’s, it’s bizarre because I find myself turning into my parents, both of them. And I’m just like, Kids these days.
Todd: No, but we have an excuse because tech we’re quite young still but like tech has moved super fast So these things that were so quaint were just a few decades ago Whereas for our parents quaint things were like, you know, 50 60 decades ago like, you know technology Automobiles.
Yeah My grandma talking about being pulled in a horse drawn carriage, but like this kind of thing Yeah Is so far removed from, like, you can do a green screen crap in your apartment now with your phone and you don’t even need a green screen behind you. Like, it’ll just, No, and it would look way better than this movie looks.
That’s
Kristen: what I was gonna say, and it looks way better than
Todd: So like, even that, this wasn’t like super impressive, but at least like it was cool movie magic to have this kind of green screen stuff. And just like you said, Kristen, the most bad ass thing in the world for you to be in a place where you could sing and dance in front of a green screen and put together your own music video that looked just like this on TV.
You know,
Craig: Oh boy. Yeah, it was a different time. Well, it was a different time, but I’m glad that you could at least appreciate it. But honestly. I love every second of it. This, this movie is only an hour and 10 minutes long. And it’s not even really that long with like the credits and stuff. I have as many notes on this movie as I have on any movie that we ever do.
Well over a page, single space. Every single thing that happened, I was like, Oh, this is important.
Well, so I’m obviously not going to be able to go through all of that, but we should, at least at some point, talk about what happened.
Todd: Can I just say real quick on the production value they filmed it I think at an actual college But it looks like your classic English boarding school just straight out of Harry Potter or something like that.
So they filmed it there and so Immediately for me just because maybe because I’m American maybe this wouldn’t impress you if you went to a boarding school like this But you know, okay kind of high production value real British people speaking with real British accents Mostly, yeah, not all of them.
Craig: Mrs.
Garrett’s accent is questionable. Yeah, well All
Kristen: of her bits are questionable.
Craig: She’s the main Charlotte Rae from, uh, The Facts of Life. The Facts of Life, yeah. She’s Wisconsin
Todd: Galilee. So like, you know, okay, production value. And then you kind of look at the fact that you’ve got, they’re doing their green screen.
Some of the, um, the broom flying sequences, I was impressed with how they were able to shoot that on a limited budget with obvious green screen and still make it halfway decent. It actually wasn’t. I mean, it looks cheesy, but you know, it kind of works for, for, for that. But then there were just random elements of cheapness that I could not get over because in the very first scene, when, uh, the two girls pile and took their potions class, like you were talking about, they walk right into this classroom and put past.
A blow up plastic skeleton that is hanging in the room, you know, this is like a potions class. It’s a school It’s like a science class at the very least They’re supposed to be like a giant human skeleton or a plastic skull or whatever for anatomy study that they’re going past But what they literally walk by is a blow up plastic halloween decoration
Craig & Kristen: I couldn’t believe that is so true
Kristen: I have never noticed.
Craig: You
Craig & Kristen: didn’t notice that?
Craig: either. And I, no, I haven’t either. And I’m sitting here thinking, that’s not important.
Craig & Kristen: Let’s
Todd: talk about the movie. It’s important to me, Craig. It’s important to me.
Kristen: It’s not as important as the music in this movie.
Craig: Okay, let me, let me just do this. Just kidding, I never
Kristen: noticed that.
That’s funny though. I’ve never noticed that. I haven’t either.
Craig: I did for the first time ever notice this time that they have a poster of David Bowie in their bedroom and I thought that was cool. Oh yeah. So this is Miss Cackle’s International Academy for Witches founded in 1604 and it’s run by Miss Cackle who is Charlotte Rae, beloved actress from the Facts of Life.
I love her. Uh, actually started on different strokes. Facts of Life was a spinoff of that. She’s fantastic. Mildred Hubble is our main character and she is the worst witch because she’s just clumsy and absent minded and she’s played by Firuza Balk, who I am a huge fan of. Kristen can attest to the fact that I had, uh, the craft poster.
On my bedroom wall all through college. Wow.
Kristen: He thought he was a witch.
Todd: Really? Well, He wanted in
Kristen: their cool girl witch club. And I can only, I
Todd: can only assume you guys were as traumatized by repeated viewings of Return to Oz as we were as children as well.
Craig: Absolutely. Dramatized and traumatized. Enamored, another of my favorite movies.
That’s another movie that we could definitely do on this podcast and Kristen should join us because that movie was f ing scary.
Kristen: I called Craig and I said, we should be doing Return to Oz because that movie is scary.
Todd: That’s actually horror.
Kristen: Those Wheeler guys.
Todd: Oh
Craig: God. And the witch in there with
Kristen: the
Craig: head.
Save it. Save it. We’ll do it one of these days. All right. So Mildred is the worst witch. And she’s got a friend, Maude, who’s funny, I love her. And then there’s the bully, Ethel Hallow, and she, uh, I also, like, I don’t love Ethel Hallow, because she’s a total bitch, but I do love her because she’s a total bitch.
It’s hilarious. Okay. So that’s, so that’s the setup. Okay. And so then it’s just a cute story about, uh, Mildred being awkward and, you know, bumping into people and making a whole line of witches fall down and just bumbling and stuff like that. And it’s hilarious. But Kristen. Bye. Yes, the music is the best.
Are we going to sing?
Kristen: Well, I did call Craig when he said, well, you were going to do this movie. Will you do it with us? I said, I texted him back and said, I just sang the whole opening credit song just to see if I could. I,
Craig & Kristen: I get twisted up in the words sometimes, but the opening, the opening song
Kristen: in the style.
That it is meant to be sung. I don’t know what that
Craig & Kristen: means. As
Kristen: cheesy as it is.
Craig: Okay, okay, wait. Alright, you’re going to have to help me with the words though. Cause I, I get, I get mixed up in the first part. Growing up isn’t easy.
Craig & Kristen: Scared of, scared of every move you make. How much? How much can a young girl take me on the wall?
You’re
Kristen: slow.
Craig & Kristen: Who? Who’s the worst witch of the, this
Kristen: isn’t going well. You’re too slow. It’s hard to
Craig & Kristen: do on, uh, on video chat. Yeah. ’cause there’s delays. I can, yeah. I think, I think one of us is on a delay.
Clip: Growing up is easy. Scared of every movie
much. Can a young girl take
who’s the worst witch?
Craig: I could sing that whole thing.
Kristen: I can say the whole movie. I realize I have the whole thing memorized and it brought back memories of, I think I would. Like, stand in front of my mirror and do these lines like I was in the movie. Like, not even while watching the movie. I would just then do them later. Every time certain lines would come up, I was like, Oh, I remember doing that.
Craig: I remember too. I remember just throwing the lot. Like, when Mildred and Maude are making potions and they’re supposed to be making this laughter potion. Um, and all the other girls know what they’re doing and they’re doing it really fast. And Ethel is being perfect and a bitch as she always is. Um, like, they have no idea.
So they start throwing shit in and they’re like, I
Clip: think we need
Craig: pond
Clip: weed. That’s right! Oh, we gather it at midnight. How much? Oh, I’m not sure. Just throw in a handful. Fuck. Oh, two handfuls.
Throw her in the lap.
Craig: And then it doesn’t, it doesn’t make them laugh. It turns them invisible, which is a way better potion, which they agree. That it is, if only they could remember how they did it. This movie is so funny, Todd. It is. It’s
Todd: got a lot of humor. I mean, it’s just a throw everything in the kitchen sink in the air kind of, kind of movie.
You know, I like that. I mean, the kids movies were like that. If you can get a little gag in, If you can get a little laugh in, just throw it in. It doesn’t have to be sophisticated, right?
Craig: The shoes bit when they’re invisible, like, doesn’t even make any sense, but it’s still hilarious to me that their shoes are like moving
Kristen: around.
It’s also like, is it a musical? Is it not a musical? There’s a couple songs and dances. There’s there’s music in the background, but then there are two actual musical numbers. So it really is. Let’s throw a little bit of this in here. This is what this movie needs.
Todd: I will tell you as a kid I was, I always res resented the fact that a kid’s movie, it was seemed obligatory that there had to be at least one song in there.
I was like, why can’t they make movies for us that have no songs in them at all? But, uh, the TV movies, not
Craig: me. I was like, more songs. Yeah. I don’t know. We
Kristen: like the song and dance. He’s sound like my husband.
Todd: But, uh,
Kristen: they say that happy people have a song in their heart. Oh,
Todd: my cold, dead, shriveled heart has no room for song.
Kristen: Even as a child, apparently.
Todd: Oh, yeah. Oh,
Craig: my God. It was born that way. That’s so funny. Yeah. So Mildred and Ethel have this, uh, Rivalry. And that’s a thing apparently. Um, but also outside the school, miss cackles, evil twin sister, Agatha and her lackey Delilah are spying and listening to the girls, uh, sing the school song and Oh God, I, I wrote it down cause I wanted to say it so bad.
I don’t remember what it was, but she’s like, How dare they? They’re ruining
Clip: my school song. Was mine by birth. Mine before my sister stole it. She was always mom’s favorite. I was jealous of me. What did I care? She
Craig & Kristen: had a miss. Cackle has this terrible.
Craig: Miss Cackle’s, uh, accent, her British accent is not great, but the Southern accent is hilarious to me.
And Delilah is another one of my favorite characters from this movie.
Kristen: Delilah is like, they found the crazy drunk woman on the corner and just said, Hey, put this on. Be
Todd: in this movie.
Kristen: We’re going to put some makeup on you and just be yourself. Walk around on this fire. She was, she’s something.
Craig: She’s funny, she’s bug eyed, and oh my gosh, hilarious.
And I don’t know, you know, what do y’all want to say about the plot? I wrote every single thing, I basically have the script in front of me, so if you want me
Clip: to perform
Craig: it, it’s only an hour long.
Kristen: Well basically all one really needs to know is Mildred is the clumsy, uh, ingenue of this story and Ethel’s the bully and then there’s some conflict because the evil twin sister is lurking and she wants to get her school back because there’s another number about If you’re filthy, smelly, evil, wicked, and cruel.
Yes, so she wants the school to go back to creating these evil, filthy, cruel witches. So that’s the conflict. You know, somehow Mildred’s gonna have to save the day. And she does. So, anyway, that’s the whole story.
Todd: Well, the evil witches, they, they drop out of the picture after they’re introduced, pretty much, and don’t pop back in till pretty much the end.
I was, uh We
Craig & Kristen: check in with them from time to time. Oh, maybe once.
Todd: Maybe once. If not much. No, no, no, no. I, I, no. Most of it’s focused on the girls and their wacky hijinks and these kids who are just relentlessly cruel to, uh, to Mildred. Poor girl. And she’s
Craig: nothing but sweet. She is. And she’s absolutely lovely and adorable and I love that her friend Maude sticks up for her.
And silly things happen. Who’s the mean girl? Oh gosh. Who’s the mean girl?
Todd: What’s her name?
Craig: Ethel is the mean girl. Oh okay. Ethel
Kristen: Hollow.
Craig: They play this game called Terror Tag. Which
Kristen: I always wanted to play. But how Stupid. The things that scare people who are supposed to be witches.
Craig & Kristen: I’m
Kristen: terrified because you stuck your tongue out.
Craig & Kristen: I’m like, held your
Craig: eyebrows up. Oh, but that’s, that’s what it is. Like you run around and hide and you try to scare you’re in two teams and you try to scare the opposite team. And every time you can make somebody from the opposite team scream, your team gets a point. And apparently young girls will scream at the sight of anything.
Kristen: That’s actually true. I work in an elementary school. They scream all the time.
Craig: Oh, yeah. I have worked in an elementary school too. There is a lot of screaming. But it was funny to me, and Ethel, because she wears It’s a scary mask and makes, uh, Mildred scream like a hundred times, 11 times. I got
Kristen: to say, as an adult, Mildred is not as cute to me.
I was like, well, she is really annoying to scream 20 times when you see a mask on clearly. Your classmates body,
Craig: right? And you, you knew it was Ethel. You were trying specifically to scare her the whole, but that whole sequence was silly because why would any, especially if the goal was not to scream. I mean, I guess the game wouldn’t be very fun if nobody screamed ever, it’d be zero zero all the time, but it was kind of silly and honestly, watching it back, this isn’t Farooza Balk’s best performance, but she’s adorable and I love her and she has such, she always has had, obviously, since she was a child and still has a very unique And I think very beautiful look.
She has these icy eyes and I loved her in the craft. I will never say a bad word about her unless she does something stupid. And then I might, but up till now, I’ll never say a bad word about her. Cause I’m such a fan, but this movie is not going to be nominated for any awards.
Kristen: Now that we have that cleared up.
Todd: I was on pins and needles wondering I What I really liked was that they were again It was like a kitchen sink kind of movie wherever they could get a gag and they could and I have to imagine that there Were other characters in this book series that they just popped in just because they thought they would be fun like Mrs.
Cackle has a niece Donna who’s who flies in and has a family Telephone on her broom, which was kind of a funny gag. She was funny. And, um, this, uh, woman who comes in, is it Miss Spellbinder?
Craig: Miss Spellbinder? Yeah. Like,
Kristen: that’s who I wanted to be. She missed her phone. Oh, she was
Craig: awesome and hot.
Todd: She, yeah, she’s like an Amelia Earhart of flying brooms.
It seems like she’s got that out
Craig: there. She’s head, she is bedecked and head to toe. Red leather
Kristen: She has a blue unitard, but then she has red leather and there’s like a big spider web on the back of her cape Yeah, he has those like sassy red boots. Yeah, I wanted to be her. She was really cool
Todd: Very cool.
This is starting to sound very not childlike by the way the way you guys are describing
Craig: this No, but when I when I I know but when I say head like literally like the the boots and then like she’s she Well, she’s you can see part of her face And she’s even got goggles on in some places, so she is completely covered, but the actress is beautiful.
But I also feel like she’s played up to be the one that they all kind of look up to. Like she’s the cool, hot one.
Todd: Yeah. And it’s also supposed to be like that classic, like flight suit, right? From, you know, And she teaches
Craig: flying and talk about Harry Potter. Like Yeah.
Todd: Yeah,
Craig: that scene looks like it’s like Harry Potter lifted it right out.
I mean, I don’t know. How else do you shoot a flying instruction thing in front of a castle? I guess if you’re going to shoot that, it’s going to, yeah.
Kristen: Did anyone else notice that every class last. Approximately five minutes at this school, like there’s, she said, it’ll take you three minutes to make this spell.
Then it was like, class dismissed. And then, and this one, of course, Mildred, she has an accident with her broom and she hits the bell and they’re like, Oh, there’s the lunch bell. It’s been like five minutes. Class dismissed. I
Craig & Kristen: want to go
Kristen: to this school.
Craig & Kristen: Yeah. Two.
Kristen: Is the end of terror tag when Mildred gets her revenge on Ethel?
Yes. Yes. Okay. That’s a great part. So we know from prior, uh, footage in this film that Mildred is not great at spells, okay? But she, she gets so ticked off at Ethel because she’s being so mean and she’s like, she cheated, she cheated, she wore a mask, that she says she’s gonna turn her into a frog or a toad or something.
And, um, Ethel’s just like, okay, go ahead and try. So all of a sudden, Mildred just has spells in her mind in the same, Words. And she, um, she tries to, to turn her into a frog and she does turn her into something but it’s not a frog. She turns her into a pig. Not really sure how that happened but Ethel is a pig is one of my favorite characters in the movie.
Todd: Yeah. It’s fantastic. She’s still bitchy and whiny as a pig. She’s
Kristen: still very bitchy and whiny but you’re looking at a really cute pig while she does it. That’s true. So it’s great.
Craig: Oh god. Ethel tells Mildred like hurry up and and Mildred’s like you hurry up. She’s arguing with this pig and she also like she’s also Oh, I’m really sorry, Ethel.
I didn’t mean to turn you into a pig. And Ethel’s like, I’m gonna get you, Mildred Hubble. And you’re right. Like, we’re just looking at this pig speaking in her voice. Hilarious.
Kristen: I actually thought for early 80s that those, uh, when she’s turn changing her back to Ethel and it kind of closes up on her eyes.
I thought that was pretty advanced for the time. I thought that effect looked pretty good. It was
Todd: almost like a morphing effect, wasn’t it? Yeah, yeah. I was impressed, yeah.
Craig: I don’t know, to me it, it, it all looked like film. Like it, it didn’t even look to me like they necessarily did anything With makeup. It was just like they were just kind of superimposing the pig face over her face and and gradually like fading the pig face out and fading her face and it
Todd: just lined up really well.
You know,
Craig: it did. It did line up really well. I liked it. I liked everything. I liked everything about this
Todd: movie. We know that.
Kristen: You made it clear.
Todd: The big thing is that then there, there’s some kind of something going, Oh, the visit by the grand wizard because the grand wizard only chooses one school to visit every year at Halloween time.
Is that right? Every Halloween, yeah. Is it Charl uh, Miss Cackle? Who’s really into
Craig: Well, everybody is
Kristen: all swooning. It had never
Craig: occurred to me. I, I just read this, uh, in the trivia, but it had never occurred to me that Tim Curry is the only male character in this movie. It never occurred to me. Um, but yeah, they’re all swooning over him.
I think it’s so. Sweet and funny when the girls are all passing around a photograph of him and like
Todd: kissing it,
Craig: holding it to their bosoms and kiss.
Kristen: I thought it was so funny too. But then at the same time, I was like, man, you can tell they’re the only, like, there’s only girls at the school. Cause even as a young girl that confused me, like he’s not cute girls.
This is, uh, I dunno, Kristin then , I think we might probably, this was surely after, uh, he did Rocky Horror and I’d probably seen him in that first and thought, I’m not even sure he’d be into you girls . Oh
Clip: no. So,
Kristen: um, anyway, that was a little confusing to me. But then of course once I saw his music video. I was like, I get it.
I hadn’t seen his tambourine. Now I get
Todd: it. Have you seen my tambourine?
As he pulls it out and is hitting it. Oh God, it’s so good.
Kristen: That sounded like a different kind of movie. But no guys, we’re actually talking about a tambourine.
Todd: No, wow. You know that, I don’t know if you guys did a deep dive into this or not, but do you know who did the music for this?
Craig: Uh, I read it, but it wasn’t anybody that I Recognize.
Todd: Okay, Charles Strauss and Don Black, uh, collaborated on these. Um, Charles Strauss, uh, he’s a composer for Bye Bye Birdie, Annie, lots of things you wouldn’t imagine when you see this film. And, uh, All Dogs Go to Heaven, all those kinds of things. Don Black, the lyricist, same thing. He even did lyrics for a lot of James Bond themes, believe it or not.
Kristen: Maybe somebody knew him and they were like, Hey, I need a favor. Like, can you whip this out? Yeah, it sounds like I’m talking about a different movie again. Can you, can you, you got it started, talking about him pulling out his tambourine and hitting on it. Um, but maybe, because these lyrics are not, I know I did, sorry.
Clip: Um,
Kristen: but yeah, these lyrics, These don’t, these don’t show a lot of time and effort. They don’t, at least in the grand high, they don’t.
Craig: Oh, no. Oh God. They’re so funny. I wish I could remem I, I The lyrics are all about
Todd: something could turn into something else.
Clip: Anything can happen on dog into a cat. There may be a toad in your best guitar, or your sister could turn into a bat.
Todd: Um, but like, no, that doesn’t actually happen on Halloween. Of all the things you could list off that could happen on Halloween that I’ve never seen that. No. There could be a
Kristen: toad in your guitar. Bass guitar. What? A
Todd: toad in your bass guitar? Where did that come from?
Kristen: I’m like, listen, I like Halloween. I’ve never once seen any of these things happen on Halloween.
I think these happen on an acid trip.
Todd: It’s overselling Halloween considerably.
Kristen: Yeah. But!
Craig & Kristen: Yziva is a blast!
Kristen: Yes, then he talks about the other Halloween, or the other holidays, like April Fool’s Day even, he throws in there, like, that’s a big holiday. Right.
Todd: Arbor Day. He’s also, like, like,
Craig: seriously, this is Tim.
Curry, who is amazing, just hamming it up in front of a green screen for, for all it’s worth. There’s no way that this took him more than an hour. No, no,
Kristen: especially because at some point you can actually see him like reading the words as he’s singing it. They’re just like, Hey, make up any tune. We don’t care.
I’m just seeing these words. Oh
Craig: God. Tim Curry is doing his Tim Curry thing with his voice. Wow. But on Halloween, your blood begins to run. He’s really hamming it up. He
Clip: really is. This Harry, scary, creepy Halloween. Harry. Really?
Kristen: And his mouth. I mean, that’s the thing, like Tim Curry’s mouth. All you can see is Pennywise as he’s singing parts of that.
Craig: Yeah. He’s got that lip curl thing down.
Kristen: Anywho, we kind of jumped ahead.
Craig: That’s okay though, because all that happened before that is that they found out that he was coming. And because he’s coming, they’re gonna do this, like, broomstick promenade or something or whatever.
It’s
Todd: like, um, it’s sort of like synchronized swimming for broomsticks, I guess.
Craig: Exactly, exactly. And there are tryouts for it, and Miss Hard Broom doesn’t like it. Mildred and doesn’t want her in it. But after the tryouts, one of the girls who made the team is sick or something. So Mildred gets put in. Why she has a broke, she could have chosen any girl.
Well, I thought.
Kristen: So I work in a school and every now and then you get those mean teachers who need to retire. And Ms. Hardroom is so one of those teachers because she’s like watching her fly. She’s like, Hmm, that’s pretty good. Who’s that? Oh, no, she’s like, that’s exceptional.
Craig: Yeah.
Kristen: Yeah. So she just doesn’t like her.
So she gives her a crappy score, but then, so it kind of tracks, she’s like, well, she could do it. She was pretty good.
Craig: Oh, right. I mean, it doesn’t
Kristen: really track because she wouldn’t ever pick her.
Craig: Exactly. Cause it doesn’t read in the movie. It doesn’t make any sense that she would pick her.
Todd: No way. She’s not the one who sabotages her.
I’m sorry.
Kristen: No, no. Ethel.
Craig: No, it’s Ethel. Yeah. So Mildred makes it, but then Hardbroom sees that Mildred’s broom is broken because she’s crashed it before. Well, you can’t fly with a broken broom. And so Ethel holds up her hand and says, I’ll loan her my spare broom. And then Ethel goes to get the broom and I can’t find it in my notes, but she does a spell, like she talks to the broom and she’s like, listen up.
Clip: We’re going to fix Mildred Hubble. Once and for all, fire and alabaster, drummy, canaster, when I say, faster, I order, disaster.
Kristen: That’s like Ethel’s best acting as well.
Craig: Oh, it’s great. It’s fantastic. And all of the spells are like higgledy biggledy, beep beep boo. And
Todd: bippity boppity boo. At least Harry Potter kind of upgraded it and made it seem like skill was involved in learning spells. Right.
Kristen: Right. This was just like, say some rhyming words and, you know, something will happen.
Literally, Mildred’s to turn her into a pig was like, mumbo jumbo biggity boo. Like, those were the actual words. Humble
Todd: bumble.
Craig: I’m
Kristen: not through!
Anywho. You guys are having way too much fun. The spell on the broom. And it’s all because Mildred didn’t have a, you know, a Nimbus 2000. Hers was ugly
Craig: looking. Exactly. And so then they do, so, you know, Tim Curry shows up, like he flies in Todd, as you said, with an enormous cape, like he’s holding two brooms at the end of each arm and he comes in.
It was funny to me that you said, Oh, and then Tim Curry came in. And then when he broke into his song, because I had kind of forgotten, like he literally just shows up, says a line and then starts singing.
Todd: And then when he’s done, he leans over and does that whole Tim Curry. I’ve got to split.
Clip: I’ve got another gig.
And
Todd: then flies off. I
Kristen: also didn’t understand, did he control the castle looking like a jack o lantern? Because as soon as it blew up, it wasn’t a jack o lantern anymore. Oh, I don’t know. That looked really cool. On Halloween for the Grand High Wizard is the only time these girls get to wear makeup and, like, feel sparkly and pretty.
Because I remember thinking they look so cool for that air show or whatever they were doing. They all got to put makeup and sparkles on and put, like, fake hair in. And they turned your capes to the neon green side. One of
Craig: my favorite lines in the movie is when they’re getting ready and Maude says,
Clip: Sometimes I worry about my nose.
Do you think it’ll ever get big and sexy like this one?
Craig: She puts a big warty witch nose on her face.
Kristen: I like when Mildred says, how do you kiss with a nose like
Craig: this?
Kristen: You don’t. You don’t.
Craig: I don’t remember.
Kristen: They’re just cute.
Craig: They’re adorable.
Kristen: It was way earlier, but I like, I just like Maud because she’s like, she doesn’t care about anybody and they’re talking about hard room and she calls her HB and she’s talking about, I don’t imagine anyone kissing HB and that’s like the part when I was little that scared me and the part now as an adult where I’m like, how does she just like, appear all of a sudden because that’s when she showed up and anyone who’s seen it knows where she is.
Is that so? Is that
Craig: so? That was one of the parts that they always showed in the preview. That part and Tim Curry after, so they do the like broomstick thing but, um, Ethel says faster and it makes Mildred’s broom go crazy and they all crash. All of the teachers are mortified and Tim Curry says If these are the witches of the future, I
Craig & Kristen: hate to think what the future will bring.
Clip: Those
Craig & Kristen: are the two lines that
Craig: they always showed. Uh in the trailer, oh gosh
Kristen: Anyway, yeah, so that’s what happened. You just you just said it they do the air show But then of course ethel says faster and the broom goes crazy. So they all fall in a pile And then he leaves
Craig: so she cries on her not black cat Tabby, and like, Tabby,
Kristen: I
Craig: have to run away.
Oh,
Kristen: pause, pause. I cannot get through this without talking about why they felt the need to have a human voice, Tabby. Every other cat just needs to have their regular cat. This is me going, Like it’s talking, it’s communicating with . She’s like, you think so tabby? Yeah, it makes no sense. Oh my God. And it just really, I was like, why?
Why is hers the only cat that’s like, and it’s talking anyway. It’s hilarious.
Craig: So she runs away and she is. in the process of running away when she happens upon the evil witches in the forest and she overhears their dastardly plan and spies on them and eventually they smell her. There’s a stranger among us.
Kristen: It’s a little bit like a witch, like Roald Dahl’s
Craig: witches. Yes. Yes. Like they find her and she’s like, Oh, I know what I’ll do. I’ll turn them into snails. And so she stands up and reveals herself and. The evil twin is like, get her. And they’re all like, ah, coming to get you. And they’re moving like they’re 150 years old, moving towards her.
Kristen: And making like terribly annoying sounds.
Todd: Yeah. And throwing a few spells at her. Oh my
Craig & Kristen: god, there was the one The buckshot spell?
Todd: What the
Craig & Kristen: hell? And then they do! The buckshot is exploding all around her.
Kristen: I could not get over that. They don’t have good aim.
Todd: I just figured because, you know, they were real cheap on the special effects.
They’re like, well we can make some things explode behind them. Alright, well it’ll be a buckshot spell then. Like, whose idea was that?
Craig & Kristen: Delilah
Craig: says Soften her up with some buckshot spells. Ew, gross. Yeah. But then she’s successful and she turns them into snails and she puts them back in their box, which is, it’s like a cigar box, but it’s labeled Acme spell company or something like that.
And she goes immediately back to school where she takes it to Miss Cackle and Miss Hardbroom. We haven’t really talked about Miss Hardbroom. She’s really mean to Mildred all the time. And at this point, like, she doesn’t even believe Mildred’s story. And she says she should be expelled. Do you guys
Kristen: know Kat Von D?
Craig: She looks
Kristen: like Kat Von D, like if Kat, before she had face tattoos and before she then covered up all her
Clip: tattoos.
Kristen: She looks just like her, I think. Who I think is a very beautiful woman, she just is interesting. But I also was desperate to try to find some things, uh, to talk about with this movie, which turns out I guess it wasn’t a problem.
But, um, she played Hedda Gabler in the movie. I saw that. Which totally tracks, I could see her playing that. Oh, she’s a Sorry, that’s for the theater nerds.
Todd: We’re talking about, we’re talking about Diana Rigg? Yeah. Yeah. She’s a Bond girl. I mean, that girl, she was a bombshell. Yeah. And in fact, she was in Game of Thrones.
Uh, she died, uh, a few years ago, but not before she was in Game of Thrones. Olenna Tyrell. I recently saw
Kristen: that too. Yeah. I haven’t watched Game of Thrones, but I saw that
Craig: Yeah. Yeah, she’s, I, I mean, she’s just a beautiful woman. She has a, like, her cheekbones, like, her bone structure is just insane, um, and she plays this really well, but she’s, like you said, Kristen, they’re really, I, I hate to admit it, but it’s true that they’re, not all teachers are good teachers, and some teachers do Target
Kristen: and they have their favorites and you know, that’s, you know, from the beginning, Ethel’s her favorite because that whole family produced the, her, the hollow family has produced another winner or whatever she says in the
Clip: beginning.
Craig: So she doesn’t even believe Mildred at this point, but Ms. Cackle does. And she’s like, did the leader of the witches have a name? And Mildred’s like, yeah, somebody called her Aggie. And Ms. Cackle says, Oh, I believe her. It’s my. My wicked twin sister. And then I love the part where Miss Cackle and Miss Hardbroom talk to the snails.
Clip: Aggie, now step forward. Just look at you, Aggie. Crawling on your tummy. That’s what you get for your evil ways.
Craig: But they antagonize her a little bit and it’s funny and then they do come back and
Todd: There’s some great snail close ups by the way. Really, really fantastic. Yeah,
Kristen: they all fall out on real snails.
Todd: Yeah. To the point where I was like, I don’t need to be seeing these snails anymore. Disgusting.
Craig: Miss Cackle sends Mildred up to her room to rest and then she very scarily dominates the evil witches. Like, they shoot her from a super low level so it looks like she’s huge. And then they shoot the other witches from a super high level so it looks like they look tiny and it’s cute.
And then, Maud comes and wakes up. Mild up and says, uh, Ms. Cco wants to see you in the Great Hall or whatever.
Clip: You might want to rake a comb through your hair. .
Craig & Kristen: That’s another one of my favorite lines, even
Kristen: though, and she comes, he never has before ,
Craig: and, and she comes down and the Grand Wizard is there and he’s there
Kristen: and he has like, everyone claps when she walks in except for
Craig: Ethel.
Everyone claps and she’s the hero and the grand wizard gives this like really nice speech about how sometimes there are really special people and they don’t go recognized because they seem. Clumsy or, or awkward or whatever, but they really are special, whatever. And that’s nice. That’s a nice message for kids.
Clip: The best witch isn’t always the girl who comes out on top of the tests. A true witch has witchcraft in her at all times. And this is what you have, Mildred Hubble.
Kristen: But he, he acts like he’s been watching her. He’s like, I’ve been watching. I’m like, well then why didn’t you say something at the Halloween thing?
Why’d you fly off to your other gig?
Todd: Yeah, why’d you act so unimpressed and leave?
Craig: She had to prove herself. And she did. It’s a Willy Wonka
Todd: situation, huh?
Craig: I just thought it was, uh, It was very sweet. And then he’s like, what are you going to do now that, I don’t know, you’re famous or I don’t remember. Um, it’s like, well, I really need to practice my flying.
And he’s like, would you like to practice with me? That fell is
Kristen: seething. She’s so jealous.
Craig: Yeah. And then they fly off together and they fly around the castle and they fly off into the sunset. And there’s a reprise of growing up as an easy and there’s new verses. And it’s so good.
Kristen: And they fly off into the sunset, which isn’t at all weird with her flying off with the Grand Hyatt.
Yeah, like she’s not even
Craig: flying on her broom. Like, yeah, I’m not sure how that’s
Kristen: practiced. She’s riding. She’s
Craig: just hanging on to his broom. Like not, whatever, whatever he’s got underneath his robe is what she’s hanging on
Kristen: to. Gross, you guys.
Craig: Oh, but man, seriously. Yeah, love every second of it, every second of it, and, and I understand if you’re looking at it with fresh eyes, you are going to be critical of it, and that’s fine, and I understand, and it’s totally fair, I get it, but it doesn’t change the fact that I love every second of it.
Kristen: It’s for sure a little kid, family friendly, or 80s nostalgia movie to watch at Halloween.
Todd: Yeah, if your kid can manage it, you know, if your kid can look past the, I think kids today are, they expect something a little more sophisticated and maybe they’re, they’re, uh, gonna expect something with a little better production value and they might scratch their heads at some things.
I don’t know. I don’t know. The thing is, there’s so much out there, right, that they could see. Right. Um, I wonder if they would kind of turn their nose up at something like this the minute you turn it on. I don’t know.
Kristen: For sure, I hear you and I don’t think kids would like it today. But I, I remember, I mean, it’s been several years ago now, but I made my daughter watch it with me because she loves Halloween too.
Uh huh. And she had fun with it. Even though it was, Bad. Now, if I made them watch it, they’d be like, well, that was scary. That’s just, it’s scary that you ever liked something like this,
Clip: but
Kristen: she enjoyed it when she was little. And I showed it to her because I think, especially as a girl too, like we can all relate to Mildred’s insecurities and her sweetness.
And so she did enjoy it when she was younger.
Todd: It’s got that clear moral message. It’s got, it’s strong. Yeah. It’s got the music in it and the silliness and the gags. And yeah,
Craig: I really think that it was probably the songs and the music that hooked us, I do really love every part of it, but I do think those songs, gosh, I mean, even though, you know, Alan’s not a big, Fan of Halloween or anything, but because I’ve been thinking about this for a week I’ve just been singing these songs and then I’ll be around him and he’ll start singing them.
He’s like goddamn it Thanks a lot Well
Todd: They’re catchy and cute and fun and honestly setting aside the anything can happen on Halloween song This song sound a little bit like Broadway songs, you know, they’re They’re very, very in that style. And so there’s no question they’re catchy. Yeah, totally. Oh, I mean, I wasn’t seeing them over and over again, but, uh, you guys have a different history.
Nobody’s going to love this movie. I think as much as you two.
Craig: No, no, I don’t think that’s true at all. No, no, I don’t think that’s true at all. Like even, you know, uh, some of our patrons have been. Messaging us like they’re excited about this. No, no, no. I don’t mean,
Todd: I don’t mean nobody does love this movie as much as you two.
I just kind of mean from now on.
Craig: Well, I’m, I’m really glad that we got to do this and I’m, I’m really glad that Kristen, you were able to join us. Yeah, well,
Kristen: it’s fun for people who like, I love Halloween. I love, love, love it and I always have since I was a kid, but I don’t, I don’t, I’m not like Craig in that. I just really love to be scared all the time and I don’t enjoy really, really scary things.
So this was fun for me as a kid because it was very Halloween, but I wasn’t going to be scared when I went to bed at night. So I think for people who love Halloween, but they don’t want like to be dreaming about zombies or like seeing people get murdered, that this can be a really, really fun thing to have every Halloween.
Todd: Yeah. It’s a definite Halloween pick for sure. Family. Well, and I think
Craig: that it would be good. Like this is something, if you are that type of person and you have young kids, like this is so safe. Like, it’s not exactly really young, like infant to four. Like while your baby is napping, you’ve got this going.
There’s music, there’s, you know, like fun things, silly things to look at.
Kristen: There’s nothing scary. Nothing. There’s nothing scary. No.
Craig: Nothing. Those of you who’ve requested it, thank you. I appreciate it. I, I swear to God that when we started doing this, it never would have even crossed my mind that we would have.
Gotten around to doing the worst, which, but, uh, it is, I mean, it’s a touchstone of my childhood and I still, I watch it not every year necessarily, but I still watch it every so often. And if you haven’t seen it. Friends. You should watch it. Like, it’s not horror, it’s not scary, but you just should just because I said so.
Kristen: Especially our older friends who can remember things from their childhood. Exactly. That they loved. Because, yes, if you have young listeners, I’m not so sure they’re going to take your word for things if you recommend.
Todd: You’re right. It’s not horror, but it’s definitely horror adjacent. It is, it is well within the kinds of things we cover on this show because we like to do these kid friendly, um, sort of, uh, I don’t even know if you’d call it gateway horror, really, but, you know, it’s fantasy more than anything else.
But, it is 100 percent intended for Halloween. That is our theme for this month is Halloween movies, and we’ve been veering this month, uh, this year, for some reason, a little bit more into the kid territory, and so, I think this falls right in line with Goosebumps and the other ones. It’s just a much, much tamer thing for the younger kids, so, yeah.
For that, I would definitely recommend it as well, if you’re interested in seeking it out, and you can, because it’s free on YouTube. It’s like, there’s three or four versions of it out there, I think, uh, varying levels of quality, so, yeah. More than anything, I enjoyed just sitting back and listening to you guys, uh, relive your childhoods and gush over it, so
Craig: Well, thank you
Todd: for doing that.
It was a lot
Craig: of fun. Yeah, it was
Kristen: fun. I think I’m ready to hear, um, hear Todd’s Halloween voice again. You, you introduced us to your Halloween spooky voice in the intro of one of your latest episodes, so maybe your Halloween voice
Todd: Happy Halloween! for listening. Very sophisticated. I’ve been working on that for years.
Thanks for giving me an excuse to bring it out.
Kristen: Appreciate it. You’re welcome.
Todd: Well, if you’ve enjoyed this episode, please share with a friend. Like we’ve said, we’ve had some, uh, earlier films this month. We did, uh, Goosebumps, very child friendly. Please, um, stick around, subscribe to us everywhere we have our podcasts.
All you have to do is put in two guys in a chainsaw podcast and we’ll into Google, and you’ll find our Facebook page, our website, uh, any of your podcast things. Just subscribe there. Let us know what you thought of this episode, and please share it with a friend. It’s just one of the best things you can do is to help grow our audience and, uh, spread the love around.
The love of the season. And Kristen, it was lovely having you on here once again as well. It will not be the last time. No. So,
Kristen: Aw, thanks for having me. It was fun.
Todd: It’s been, it’s been great. So, until next time, I’m Todd, and I’m Craig,
Kristen: and I’m Kristen,
Todd: with Two Guys and a Chainsaw
Don’t be fooled by this little-known horror film: It may be a made-for-TV movie, but it packs a serious emotional punch and a chilling ending. We were guessing all the way through this star-studded slasher movie that turned out to be just what we were looking for in a Halloween pic
Episode 410, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast
Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.
Craig: And I’m Craig.
Todd: Here we are, we two of Halloween!
Craig: Oh, you’re stupid. I love it.
Todd: I got to do something special. You remember way back at like the first year or two during the Christmas episodes where I would try to do cute things with like a old Christmas songs in the, in the intro, like, you know, you should do it again. I can’t. No, man. YouTube killed me on that.
As soon as we started uploading our stuff to YouTube, we get these copyright. Oh, okay. Things for, for doing that. I’m like, all right, fine. Fine. Not even to be fun. Not even to be funny. I’m not going to clip in any of that stuff. Not that there are any great Halloween songs to clip in either. I mean, how many really are there, but anyway, yeah.
So I don’t do that anymore. So, you know, you’re welcome. That was my ghostly Todd next week is your turn, buddy. Oh
Craig: yeah. Well, yeah. Second week of Halloween movies. I’m excited. Cause I’d never seen this one before. Oh my God. Um, this is going to sound so stupid, but I swear to God, it’s true. Like. It’s, it’s cold outside and I’m like all snuggled up in a blanket and I’m like,
It’s
Todd: time for Halloween. I’m so excited. Did you ever buy those Halloween scare tapes? You know, I was obsessed with them, right? Where you’re just supposed to play it. It’s supposed to be like a soundtrack for your haunted house or something.
Craig: No, but I do sometimes, I do sometimes when I’m reading put on like spooky, like I’ll go to, like spooky
Todd: music.
That is so dorky, but also kind of cool.
Craig: I told you before, I think I, I cannot stand silence. I hate silence. I have to have something happening. The TV has to be on when I sleep at night, I sleep in front of a huge fan all throughout the whole year. The problem. Is that when it’s silent, then any tiny noise that I hear is so distracting.
Does that make sense? Like, yeah, just the regular, the regular noises of a house or a building makes sense, distracts me. And like, I can’t sleep if I’ve got that white noise in the background.
Todd: I’m good. Okay. Well, what I was talking about was I’m actually talking about those cassette tapes that would have like.
Ooh, with like clanging chains and ghosts and howls of werewolves and maybe a little bit of music. I’ve been to haunted houses there and there.
Craig: Yeah, sure.
Todd: Oh
Craig: yeah, man. No, I never had them, but
Todd: one of these tapes, it was, I might even still own it. It was like my prized possession, especially at Halloween time.
I would break that sucker out and I would try to play it as much as possible. Yeah, I miss those. Those are like childhood Halloween things that I’ll probably never revisit as an adult. Right. But YouTube , yeah, I’m sure. I guess I’m sure they’re on there. They’re probably more sophisticated now, too. This movie that we’re doing is called Dark Knight of the Scarecrow from 1981, and it’s a made for television slasher film.
I guess you could call it a slasher film. It has been requested a number of times by several publishers. That’s what I was gonna say. I feel like this has
Craig: been requested a lot.
Todd: It really has been, and almost every time that Halloween comes up and we’re asking people for Halloween suggestions, at least one person pops in.
Saying, hey, do Dark Knight of the Scarecrow, and I have to admit, I looked it up, because it sounds cool, but then I looked it up and I was like, oh, it’s a made for TV movie, and it’s like PG, and I thought, oh, you know, put that on hold.
Craig: It certainly probably would be rated PG, I think what I’m looking at tells me that it’s not rated.
And I’m not really clear because I read that it was originally intended to be a theatrical film, but then it was released on TV, but at the same time it felt made for TV because. As made for TV movies do it had clearly built in moments for commercial breaks. Yeah.
Todd: Well, it wasn’t shot for theater. It was written for theatrical films and it was written by JD Fagelson.
He wanted to do a feature film and it ended up getting bought by CBS, but Apparently they shot it with very, very few changes to the original screenplay. Anyway, I think if it had been theatrical, it probably would have been just gorier. You know what I mean? They probably would have been a little more explicit with the action, but.
Yeah,
Craig: it’s, that’s so funny. Like, I didn’t know anything about this. I didn’t know that it was a Halloween movie. Like, I mean, it sounds kind of Halloweeny, I guess. And. It’s not like Halloween plays a huge role. Like it just happens to be at Halloween and they go to a Halloween dance at some point, but it’s not like Halloween features heavily, but whatever.
It’s very Halloween y. I get it. I can especially see like, if this was something that you saw when you were young, and I feel like maybe a lot of people did see it when they were young because it’s safe. Obviously we’ll talk about the details, but most of the deaths in this movie are accidents.
It’s not, it’s not like Jason is running around with an ax or a machete or whatever and like chopping people up or shooting them with like, mostly people just like fall down or something.
Todd: Yeah. That’s why I hesitated to call it a slasher film. But also this is something that I grew to really like about the movie.
Because as it went on, I felt like there was just this mystery, like what is happening to these people? Is there something behind this or are they getting up in their heads? Is there, yeah, I just, I wasn’t quite sure up until the very end. And I will say. Even after the very end, I still am not a hundred percent sure, but I was pleasantly surprised by this one.
I really, really liked it. It’s not going to go down as like the scariest thing I’ve seen. Cause it’s not, I mean, scary. I don’t know if you call a movie like this really, really scary. It really pulled at my emotions and it kept me guessing throughout. And had a very satisfying ending. And I was kind of wondering, like, why have more people not seen, I guess, just because it was a TV movie, it is in a pristine restored copy, I think pretty much everywhere, like on, you can get it for free on YouTube.
Like it’s been uploaded a few times there. I think it’s on Tubi. It’s on a lot of streaming services. And the picture looks like it was shot yesterday. It is crystal clear and nice and not in that annoying way that sometimes they restore movies and it’s just a little too clean. This just looks like a very love it.
Like they were probably able to go back to the negatives. They’ve still existed and they’ve still must’ve been an excellent shape to be able to go in there and restore this like they did because nobody would have seen it on TV on television as clean and as nice as, uh, As I got to see at this time and that helped too.
Craig: Yeah. Yeah. It looks good, but it still shows its age in that way. It does shot. It, it, it looks very much like what, when did this come out? 80 early eighties, right? 81. Yeah, very much 81. And it looks like that.
Todd: It looks like late seventies, early eighties. One thing that makes it very eighties and dated is the people in it.
There are. Just like these TV movies would tend to do, Land, there are just, it’s chock full of stars, you know? Not necessarily A level, A list stars of the time, but oftentimes A list stars of the 50s and the 60s, or those bit player guys who you’ve seen in like every movie since the dawn of the golden age, you know, things like that.
And including the star, Charles Jerning, I love this guy.
Craig: I love every guy. Maybe we remember him from the same thing. Cause I know that it was a big part of our childhoods, but he was the governor. And the best little house in
Todd: Texas. Yeah. Yeah. And he’s one of the,
Craig: it’s one of my favorite parts of the movie.
If ever I had an opportunity to be in that show and like this, the stage play is different. So I don’t even know if his character is in it, but I always wanted to play that role. Cause he just comes in at the very end and sings a really fun song. It’s just like, dances out just
Todd: like his character. Ooh, I love to dance a little sidestep.
It’s so
Craig: good.
Todd: Yeah. It was also though, as a terrified of him as doc Hopper in the Muppet movie. I see who owns the frog leg restaurant or whatever. And it’s trying to get Kermit. I thought he was the most evil man on the planet when I was little, who’s
Craig: been in so many things. I don’t remember the Muppet movie.
I didn’t watch it a lot. For whatever reason, we were a Muppets take Manhattan family.
Todd: A little late to the
Craig: party there. Weren’t you? Yeah, yeah. But yeah, Charles journey has been in so many things. He’s got a really distinctive voice and, and it was unsettling for me. Because he’s a bad man in this movie. He is a terrible, terrible person.
And you said, yeah, he’s awful. And he is not a good representative of the United States Postal Service either.
Todd: Which happens to get a lot of representation in this movie, for better or for worse. Mostly for worse. I didn’t notice it myself, but I read in the trivia that he never takes that uniform off. He is in his postal service uniform.
The entire time.
Craig: Yeah. The same costume every day for the whole 17 or 18 days that it took to film this movie, he never changes out of that costume. But like he is just a creepo from from the get out. And at one point he’s we’ll get to it sequentially. But at one point he’s talking to a little girl and he’s like, I’m the postman.
Nobody’s scared of the postman. And I’m like. I am? If it’s you, you weird creepo!
Todd: Oh my god. This guy, I mean like, we’ve lived in small towns, and there is this kind of thing where people who probably shouldn’t be end up through just the fact that it’s a small town and they’re particularly bullying, that they get outsized egos and have undue influence, you know, over everybody.
And and so it’s kind of cute. I mean, it’s cute that the postman of this small town, you know The one guy who handles the mail, that’s how small this town is He’s the evil guy I there’s a courtroom scene later and I thought that was so funny because it looked just like a tiny small town courtroom And, and settled just like matters might have been settled in a small town courtroom.
Probably. One judge hearing everything and giving his opinion and that’s that, you know, uh. Oh, there’s so much to talk about.
Craig: I know, I was gonna say you’re jumping ahead the time like that. I know, I know. That courtroom scene made me so mad because at one point the judge is like,
Clip: Sam, these men are members of the community, they’re not criminals.
But your honor, they went out. Sam, I’ll tell you the truth. After listening to the arguments. I don’t think you have a case against him. Henry, your honor. These men went out with no legal right. Sam, Sam, you have produced no witnesses. You have produced no evidence. You have not shown me one thing to prove that what happened is any different than what they say.
Craig: Yeah, there is a ton of evidence and a witness. Like, I don’t know. I mean, the mom didn’t look at it. Anyway, all right. So you had said that the movie surprised you because it tugged at your heartstrings. That’s ultimately kind of how I walked. I walked away from it. Like that was a sad movie. Like it’s terrible.
It feels like an. And I feel like it could have been an episode of Tales from the Crypt or Tales from the Dark Side or something like that because it’s, it’s, yeah, it’s a morality play where bad people do something really bad and then they get their comeuppance. It reminds me a lot of Pumpkinhead. Um, because it’s centered around the death of an innocent, the, the brutal murder of an innocent in pumpkin head.
It was a little boy in this case. It’s a grown man played by Larry Drake. It’s this guy named Bubba who has special needs. He’s mentally challenged.
Todd: He starts out just sitting in a flower field with this little girl named Mary Lee, and when that opened up like that, I was like, oh, please don’t be like this.
What’s a more cliche thing than this little girl and this, well, in this case, anyway, I mean, it could be, it could be anybody kind of along this, any kind of relationship along these lines, but in this case, like you said, it’s a mentally challenged 36 year old, 32 year old man. Who’s there playing with her in the fields and they’re making flower rings and stuff.
And I thought
Craig: it’s so sweet. It’s totally innocent, but like it immediately, you know, you’re going into this movie. I knew what was going to happen, but they’re just, it’s so innocent and, uh, and sweet. They clearly have an established relationship. Like it seems like they’re like best friends. Yeah. It almost seems like she even understands that he’s different and she knows how to communicate with him in a way that you don’t understand.
Todd: And she teaches him things and it’s sweet and cute. And this kind of thing can happen immediately. I was thinking, Oh, please let this be like, I don’t want to sound like ridiculous, but I was just like, please let this be a more sensitive portrayal and not super hokey and kind of offensive. And I don’t think it was, you know, I was thinking back to the leprechaun where we thought, It was like a mentally challenged guy in there and it feels a little dated and maybe a little offensive the way he’s portrayed, but this feels very realistic and tender.
It does.
Craig: And Larry Drake also played mentally challenged person on law and order for a long time. And, and I think. That at that time, he got a lot of acclaim for his portrayal. Things are just so different now. Culturally, we’re just much more sensitive about those kinds of things, especially when you have stereotypical neurotypical people playing people with mental handicaps or, or.
Yeah, whatever. We’re just more sensitive and, and as we should be, but I can look back on something like this. And I was thinking the same thing, like, Oh, please let it be respectful. Let it not be a joke. Um, but it wasn’t, it, it, it wasn’t, this is a kind, innocent person who doesn’t deserve what is coming to him and doesn’t even deserve the scrutiny.
Now. Yeah. I feel like they’re setting it up that this evil Otis Charles Durning guy casts suspicion on Bubba. He is the one who is watching this little girl through binoculars. Like I don’t like what, what are you doing? Like why are you watching them? Why are you creeping on the side of the road watching them with binoculars?
Are we well, and then, and so then he drives, he drives, he immediately, I guess it’s on his route. I don’t know, but he drives to his friend’s house. Harless played by Lane Smith, who is totally recognizable too. And it’s like,
Clip: he’s out there again. And
Craig: he’s got the Williams
Clip: girl.
You know what he’s liable to do? Yes. Well, let’s get down there and break it up then. Oh, good. Would it do? Two days, he’ll be back again just like before. Not this time. I’m gonna teach that moron a lesson. You’re wasting your time. Just you wait and see. When I get through with him You’re wasting your time.
He’s an idiot. He can’t remember. You ought to know that by now.
Craig: Like what? What are you talking about? And it’s not that I think that it’s an unbelievable conceit that people might be concerned about a relationship between an adult man and a child, but this guy seems particularly invested in it without reason.
Like he doesn’t, the only thing that he observes that I suppose. As an outside observer might be questionable is the little girl kisses Bubba on the cheek. But if you watch the scene, he is really reluctant to do that because he’s concerned. Bubba is concerned that it might not be appropriate. And yeah, he kind of insists upon it.
Clip: Now I have to give you a kiss. Come on, Bubba. You have to. It’s the custom. Comes with the flower. And give it back.
Craig: It’s totally innocent. Totally, totally innocent.
Todd: Otis is just one of these mean, nasty guys. And these people do exist, I’m afraid. They do. Oh,
Craig: absolutely.
Todd: They just like stirring up trouble, casting suspicion on other people. I would say psychological. Usually it’s because they have problems of their own that they’re trying to distract from or whatever.
It’s so believable that this guy would be the way he is. And like you said, a reason is given to, and more than alluded to later in the movie, more than once that he might even be a bit of a pedophile, but you know, there’s no direct evidence of that.
Craig: Uh, kind of came out of nowhere, but as soon as it came up, I was like, Oh yeah, he
Todd: is totally a creep.
Yeah, I didn’t, I wasn’t really thinking about it either because I was just so focused on how he just hated Bubba, but then I was like, oh, well, maybe that is the reason why he’s, yeah. What, what, what a big reason why he hates him so much in the first place is because he’s spending so much time with this girl that he thinks, you know, he likes.
So yeah, he’s disgusting and then he, he kind of makes the rounds and bitches at everybody about Bubba, which clearly he’s done this many, many times before. And they, his friends talk about this too. Oh, you’re always talking about him and all that, but they don’t like disagree necessarily. They sort of seem to be humoring him.
But also later we kind of find out it seems like this isn’t the first time that they’ve all kind of gone up in arms about Bubba as well.
Craig: Because what happens, what happens immediately, it’s all in the first half hour. There’s actually kind of a lot of exposition. The first half hour is all kind of set up for the slasher movie.
I feel like in most slasher movies, you would kind of get this in the backstory, but we see the back. We see the backstory. So Bubba is with a little girl and they’re just walking down the street and they come to a fence and she looks through into this garden full of garden gnomes. That was weird. Like not just like one little garden gnome in the corner.
Like, like it was populated. Oh, they have a collection. And they were just out and about. Like these
Todd: are garden gnome enthusiasts.
Craig: So they were anyway, but the girl is fascinated. She’s like, Oh look, they have a new fountain. Let’s go in through the fence and see. And Bubba’s like, I can’t. This guy has obviously been taught by his mother that he can’t do anything wrong.
Because if he missteps, it’s going to be big trouble. And so he’s very cautious. And he says, I can’t go in. And she tries to get him to go, but he won’t. But she goes in. And then, she’s attacked by a dog. Which we don’t see, at all. But then, uh.
Todd: But we hear, and it’s almost 10 times worse, really.
Craig: Yes, except for, It didn’t bother me because I get it.
It’s a ratings thing, it’s TV. Bubba does go in to try to help her. We see him going in to try to help her. But the next thing is at her parents house, the mother hears a knock at the door, and when she opens it, it’s Bubba there holding her, seemingly dead, and Bubba is just saying, like, Bubba didn’t do it, Bubba didn’t do it.
Then it cuts to some, I don’t remember how Otis finds out about this, but what he hears is that the girl is dead. And it was Bubba that did it. I don’t think it’s
Todd: ever really explained. He just, uh, jumps off and
Craig: Large Marge tells him! Maybe No, no, no, that’s No, the breakfast scene comes much later. That’s when he learns his friend is dead.
But, but, guys, in case you were wondering if Large Marge is in this movie, she
Todd: is. We know this is a question some of you ask each other the minute we fire up every episode. And several times you haven’t been wrong. And today would be one of them.
Craig: So anyway, Otis puts together a posse. It’s him and three other guys.
There’s Harliss played by Lane Smith, who is in, I looked at his IMDb page because he’s so familiar and I did recognize a couple of things that he was in, like, I feel like he plays the stern dad in a lot of, Late eighties, early nineties stuff, but anyway, he’s familiar. And then there’s also Philby and Skeeter.
And I looked them up. I didn’t remember anything that they were in one’s a, one’s a real scrawny guy, one’s a heavier, sick guy, but he puts them all together and they grab their guns and they get their search dogs and they immediately head to his house and they’re chasing him. This poor man who has done nothing wrong is.
terrified and running home and he and they’re chasing him and he gets there and talks to his mother who just seems so kind and and is trying to reassure him that he didn’t do anything wrong and everything’s gonna be okay she by the way is played by
Todd: Jocelyn Brando, Marlon Brando’s older sister.
Craig: Right.
Todd: Which is It is funny, apparently, uh, well even members of the Brando family have said that her star could have shone just as bright as Marlon Brando’s did if alcoholism hadn’t derailed her career. But, uh, I think that was an issue with, uh, in their family. Yeah. Anyway, but, uh, yeah, it’s too bad.
Craig: I, I like her in this, like I totally believe her as the mother of this man.
She’s doing her best to take care of him, and, and she says something like, remember what we did last time? And then when the posse eventually shows up, she says, yeah, you guys are always harassing him. So it seems like they’re constantly accusing him of things that he hasn’t done. It brings the dogs out and
Todd: everything,
Craig: but she tells, she tells Bubba, remember last time we’ll play the hiding game, play the hiding game.
So he runs off
Clip: and
Craig: then the posse arrives and they confront her and they’re abusive to her, but she. Stands her ground. It’s
Todd: it’s pretty strong.
Craig: Yeah, she’s a tough old broad.
Todd: I liked her character a lot in this movie. Yeah, this person who’s been taking care of this, you know, adult child basically for 36 years.
Like she knows what to do and it’s a small town and things like this are ten times more difficult in a small town like this where there’s gossip and everybody knows everybody and people just won’t sometimes leave you the hell alone.
Craig: That’s definitely true, but it can go the other way too when it’s that small.
Oh, it can. Look. When it’s that small of a community, somebody like Bubba would, because the only thing that we’ve seen of him is that he’s kind and gentle, he would be embraced, I think, you know, in a small community.
Todd: It’s true, I would think so too, or at least there would be a faction of people who recognize and love him and, you know, go out of their way to be kind to him.
You see no evidence of that in this movie at all. No,
Craig: no, the thing that bothers me, okay, so, the dogs, because they have dogs, the dogs sniff him out, and he’s hiding as a scarecrow. Like, he has put on a scarecrow outfit.
Todd: They must have had it at the ready, you know what I mean? I don’t know. That went pretty quickly, too. I mean, to tell you the truth, I put a sack
Craig: over his head. convincing scarecrow.
Todd: Hangs himself up on a,
Craig: on a, yeah, like, like crucifies himself, basically, and looks like a scarecrow. It does not look like that man up on that pole, because I don’t believe for a second that it was.
Right. Because the, the dogs lead them to the scarecrow and Otis. Walks right up to it, and then we get a real tight, tight close up on the scarecrow’s mask. And you see Bubba’s eyes inside, terrified and crying. It’s horrible. It’s awful. Todd, it made me I was
Todd: really mad. I was really upset. I was too. I was super upset during this thing.
I thought this TV movie did what TV movies aren’t supposed to do. They execute him.
Craig: It’s horrible. All four of those men shoot him multiple times. Then it’s like, uh, Breaker Breaker 1 9, you out there? Like, the second after they have shot him. Execution style, as he cried and begged, the radio comes in and they’re like,
Clip: Blaster from
the clinic center,
Craig: oh yeah. And they all just look at each other like, uh oh. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. But then it jumps immediately to that trial that you were talking about.
Todd: Yeah, that trial, I mean, a lot of times trials just aren’t, they’re not realistic in movies, right? It’s just like, it’s fine, you know, get to the point, you know, they were let off the hook by some small town nonsense, you know, that’s really what it is.
But what evidence
Craig: do they need? Okay, so He’s dead with bullet holes in him, in the Yeah, and after, after they shoot him, I guess they
Todd: set up Oh, it’s so lame, it’s pretty lame
Craig: actually. They put a pitchfork in the crook of his arm. And so their defense is that they shot him in self defense and the judge is like, Are you sure you didn’t give him a chance to surrender?
And they’re like, Oh yeah, we definitely did. Oh, we did your honor.
Todd: We swear. And then we shot him that
Craig: point blank range 27 times. I mean, come on, it’s ridiculous. But they get off and it’s so gross because not only do they get off, They are not only remorseless, but
Todd: cocksure. Not only that. Boastful. Boastful.
And they’re greeted just outside the courtroom by mostly cheering and happy people. I thought there would be like another faction there. I thought there would be some people who are angry, some people who are maybe their friends. But it seems like everybody is so relieved. It makes it look like the whole town.
You know, except for Bubba’s mom, are relieved that they got off scot free. Again, I think it’s oversimplifying the small town politics. You know, essentially, these are the good ol boys, and this is the well respected guy in town, and so nobody believes But it’s not entirely
Craig: unrealistic either.
Todd: No,
Craig: it’s not.
Unfortunately, it’s crazy. Small town politics are crazy, but it also like I was just then so uncomfortable that those men just continue to go about their lives and Otis continues to go out and be like the friendly. Mailman, like people are greeting him at the mailbox. Oh, hey Otis. How are you doing? That man is a
Todd: murderer and you know it.
Well later, he’s gonna show up at Bubba’s mom’s door and he is smug and almost taunting there. It’s so disgusting. By this point I was like, I cannot wait to see this man die. And so good job movie you set it up really really well I could not wait to see how these people were gonna go. Well, that’s true.
But the
Craig: other three I didn’t feel sorry for them I felt a little sorry for the last one for Skeeter I felt like they were all painted as being really Simple and yeah, I, I almost felt like without Otis’s influence, they wouldn’t have done that. They, they were just following. I mean, he’s evil. He’s disgusting, but he’s smarter than them and he manipulates them.
You, you actually even see that more after the fact than before, but if, if he’s capable of it after he was probably capable of it before too. That’s how he riled everybody up into, you know, Doing this anyway, so I have more sympathy for them. I wasn’t sad when they started dying and like so The scarecrow not a scarecrow the scarecrow shows up in Harliss’s field
Todd: Yeah, and he’s like what in the hell and he immediately goes to you know the town restaurant Where, uh, the other two are sitting.
And he sits down and he’s like, What in the hell? This is not funny, guys. Of course, they’re like, What? What are you talking about? No, we swear we didn’t do it. So then the three of them go to Otis and they’re scared. And they’re like, Somebody knows what we did because somebody put that in the field. And Otis is like, It must be Sam, who is the prosecutor.
Who had this very, you know, straightforward phrase. What did he say? Justice. What did he say?
Craig: He just said, as soon as I have evidence, I’ll come after you. It was the mom. It was the mom who said there’s other justices in this world besides the law. Yes. And I love it. I thought it was so great. It felt like a curse.
It
Todd: did! This movie is so clever because that also starts to cast suspicion on the mom. They end up, you know, eliminating people and kind of going through a laundry list of things, like, who could it have been who did that? And of course, their first thing is it’s the prosecutor. The prosecutor’s trying to draw them out.
And, uh, so they go to Otis boarding house. Otis lives at a boarding house. He’s a town post man. He’s been living here, I guess, for a very long time. Very well known in the community, but he doesn’t have a place of his own.
Craig: Well, cause he’s a creeper! Different time. Yeah, I guess so! He’s a creepy pedo grosso.
Yeah. So he lives in a boarding house. I don’t think those, those still exist, but it’s always so quaint in movies where, you know, this one old lady cooks for all these old bachelor men, like, that’s so funny to me! And then you have that breakfast scene where, okay, so Harlan gets killed, he sees, like, the, the scarecrow apparently is like an omen.
It shows up right before you’re going to get killed. But the way that he gets killed is like, he hears something in his barn. And then I think he hears something up in the hayloft. So he climbs up there and then the wood chipper below the law turns on by itself. And that startles him, so he stumbles and falls into it, like that’s what I say, it’s not like, it’s not like somebody is coming after these guys with an axe, it’s just like circumstantial
Todd: things.
But something had to start the woodchipper. Right. Which is a whole thing. Right. Which is a whole thing. And, and, I mean, didn’t you know, the minute you saw, like, that guy, the very first time we saw him was cleaning out a wood chipper, and I was like, oh, please let that be. Please let that be. But you don’t see anything.
Don’t even think, no, not even a spray of, of blood on the, any blood.
Craig: Nothing You’ve seen, nothing
Todd: disappointing. Actually, I really liked the way that scene was constructed. I think all of these death scenes were well constructed. It was cool how they did it for tv, but they kept the suspense, like they didn’t make it just over, you know?
Like he could’ve like, whoa, whoa, and then just fell off. He drops his sickle in there first, and you hear that get ground up, and then he grabs onto a light, which starts sparking, and he’s swinging by the light over it for a little bit, and then, you know, the light falls, and of course he falls into the chipper, and you basically hear that same sound, except it’s his bones.
But yeah, it’s kind of this long scene, very satisfying, I thought, but really well constructed, really well shot, really well lit. The movie, I think, yes, it does have the trappings of a TV movie, because it’s got the commercial breaks, it’s kind of got that plot, it’s got that level of tameness to it. But I thought it was a cut or two above on the beauty of the picture.
The lighting was really good. The angles were really clever and the foreshadowing that you got with a lot of different things was, was quite nice as well.
Clip: That
Craig: didn’t occur to me at the time. Now that you’re saying it, and I’m thinking about that scene and I’m thinking about the way that the swinging light was like.
Illuminating his face. Yes, I see. It. It, it didn’t really stand out to me as being spectacular, but I, I see what you’re saying. I think this movie is charming and successful in what it was doing. Knowing that it was a TV movie growing up, watching tv, movies, I think I would’ve liked this. Yeah, I, I, I think for sure.
It’s scary enough. You know, you don’t see a lot, but you know, what’s happening. And it’s, it’s the scary, it’s like Salem, Salem’s lot in a way. Really? Yes. It was much scarier because of Tim Curry’s performance, but. You didn’t really see a whole lot there either. As a TV movie, I think it works really well.
And because of that, that opens up the audience. Yes. You could watch this with your 8, 9, 10 year old at Halloween time. Yeah, you could. It’s suggestive, but it’s not directly violent. I don’t know, I wouldn’t, because I’m really, I’m still upset. Yeah. Well, but the good thing about it is, though, that the guys all do get their comeuppance, so I guess that’s fair.
That’s
Todd: true. Speaking of things that get you upset about this movie. Let’s talk about the girl for a second. So she comes to, and she doesn’t know that her friend is dead.
Craig: No, and her parents aren’t going to tell her.
Todd: Aren’t going to say, what are they gonna tell her? What a bad parenting move. But anyway, the dad was like,
Craig: it’ll pass.
Todd: Pretty soon she’ll just wonder where Bubba is, this guy that she played with every day out in the field. She’ll
Craig: quit acting, she’ll quit asking eventually.
Todd: They were like best friends and you can tell because she wakes up in the middle of the night and she goes to the window and it’s all windy and it, and it starts to feel a little creepy here.
Bubba, Bubba? And you’re like, why is she calling for Bubba? And she runs outside, it’s, it’s the middle of the night and she runs to Bubba’s house, which clearly is something she’s done many times because she goes to what is supposed to be his bedroom window and taps on it and when she doesn’t get a response, She just walks into the house.
I guess it’s unlocked. Goes up the stairs. I loved how this little, uh, one story ranch house suddenly got an extra story on it after she went inside. This house looks twice as big on the inside and has an extra story. But anyway, she goes up the stairs and mama comes out. Bubba’s mom. And it’s like, what are you doing here, sweetheart?
She’s like, oh, I’m looking for Bubba. And she’s like, oh, did nobody tell you? And then she says, Baba, Baba has gone away. Like, where did he go? Well, he’s gone somewhere where nobody’s going to hurt him anymore. Well, we need to find him. Oh my God, dude. This was just really upsetting to me. Well, and
Craig: she, I think she runs out.
She’s like, I know the places where he hides and she runs out into the field and the mom chases her. And when the mom finds her, the girl’s like, don’t worry. Bubba’s not gone. He’s just being silly. He’s playing the hiding
Todd: game. Yes. She’s sitting at the foot of the cross of that scarecrow, which I guess they left up and picking flowers.
In the middle of the night. I hahahahaha Anyway, it’s creepy. And you’re like, wait a minute. Okay, now are we creepy ghost bubba? You know, with the creepy girl now, who’s like friends with the ghost? So it adds that element in there. At least she’s fine now. So that’s the Okay, so there’s a scarecrow at Harliss place, and he falls in the wood chipper, and instead of seeing blood splatter, we get a plop of preserves on, uh, Otis plate at the boarding house.
Craig: And I like, honestly, I don’t usually read stuff about these movies beforehand, maybe the brief plot summary, but I do often look at the cast to see if I’m going to recognize people and the woman who is the the boarding house lady. Is played by large Marge Alice none yes and I pretty sure that her profile picture on imdb is large Marge that is just one of my favorite childhood memories when I was so young and watching peewee’s playhouse I really thought.
That that part of that movie was so scary, not like I was scared by it, but I just loved it because I was like, Here is the scary part. Large Marge holds a very dear place in my heart. So I was happy to see her for three seconds. That she’s in this movie.
Todd: We’ve talked about her previously on here. She was Mrs.
Callahan in The Fury. She was also in Trick or Treat. You remember that rock and roller ghost story? Where at the end he gets all electric and stuff? I remember the
Craig: movie. I don’t remember her in it. God, we’ve got so many 400 plus episodes. I have no recollection of it at all. Okay. So, but so then, you know, the guys like get together and they’re nervous and you know, what’s going on.
The next one to go is Philby. He works at a grain factory. He sees the scarecrow. He tells them the other guys, he tries to show them, but it’s gone. Then he’s at the grain factory at night, and he, he hears something, and then it turns out to be nothing, but then he sees like a dark figure going into the office or something, and he tries to drive away, but his car won’t start, and he’s having, like, heart problems, so he’s taking his nitrous pills, and, Yeah, the car won’t start.
So he gets out and he runs and he thinks somebody’s following him. So he locks himself in a grain bin. And I knew immediately, like, Oh God, good job, dummy. Like he locks himself in the bottom of a grain silo. And then he tries to get out, and then the grain starts pouring in, and he gets covered in grain and killed.
Okay, now, first of all, things like this certainly can happen, and it does happen. Yeah, it does. People die.
Todd: They usually fall in if they
Craig: Yeah. The next day, or whenever it is that Otis finds out that he’s dead, They say that he died of a heart attack. God,
Todd: that was so stupid. And unnecessary. Why did they say that?
Craig: They find him buried in the silo, with his arm outstretched towards the heavens, and his hand sticking out. And they’re like, uh, it’s probably a heart
Todd: attack.
Well they do say, first it was the heart attack, then it was the grain. As though they can know these things, you know. Oh my god. Yeah, but didn’t you know? Just like he was cleaning the wood chipper, the minute I saw that guy at that grain silo, I thought someone’s gonna fall into this grain silo. That’s exactly what’s gonna happen.
Well, it wasn’t quite like that, but it was. That’s why it surprised
Craig: me when the third guy, the last guy, except for Otis, Is a mechanic and you see him rolling out from under cars several times. And I know he was going to get crushed under a car.
Todd: I did too. And you know what? That could have been the way it eventually went.
If other things didn’t happen, right? You know, there’s another thing we’re missing here though. And that is that as, and before all this is happening, the guys are trying to figure out who it is. They’re like, well, it can’t be Sam, because Sam seemed awfully disturbed after the first guy was killed, you know, it’s not like he would kill this guy, and he doesn’t, you know, he’s not showing anything on his face, and so they’re like, it must be Mrs.
Ritter, and so, instead of just going and, he kind of, kind of confronts her, this is when Otis goes to the door And is like, being real weird with her, delivering her mail, but he’s like, a little bit threatening, he’s like, you know what, you got one, that means we’re even, you can stop now. And she was like,
Craig: f you.
Yeah.
Todd: As she should, and that’s, and then she, he’s like, what did you say, what was that thing you said earlier? And she’s like, there’s justice besides the law, right? So then you’re thinking, maybe, okay, it’s gotta be somebody, right, doing these things. Right. But then the girl’s acting real creepy like she’s got a ghost friend.
Otis is all
Craig: paranoid. He confronts her. He was so He confronts her in such a creepy way. Like at the Halloween dance. Everybody’s at the Halloween dance, and the kids are like playing hide and seek, and Mary Lee ends up by herself, and Otis confronts her and is like,
Clip: Hey, you’re not afraid of me. I’m the mailman.
No one’s afraid of the mailman. Let me see your costume. Isn’t that pretty? Let me see if I can guess who you are. Uh, fairy princess, right? No, no, that’s not it. I know who it is. Mommy, right? Huh?
Show your costume to Mrs. Ritter? Hmm? She’s your friend, isn’t she? Yeah, sure. She’s mine, too. Bet you didn’t know that, did you? Huh? You know something? I think Mrs. Ritter’s trying to play a joke on me and some of my friends.
Craig: What did she tell you? Just, oh, it’s a secret? Oh, that’s okay, just whisper it in my ear.
You can whisper it in my ear, I won’t tell anybody, it’ll still be a secret. When he had confronted Bubba’s mom at her screen door on her porch, under the guise of being her postman, That bothered me, too. My grandpa was a United States postal worker for like 50 years, and he took a lot of pride in his work, and they are good social public servants.
They’re not creepos. Let this not be a stain
Todd: upon the Postal Service. As prominent as Postmen and the U. S. Postal Service in general and its logo and its trucks and its uniforms are in this movie. This does not reflect upon them yet, but the mom
Craig: had said to him, I’ve seen the way that you look at that little girl and he was obviously taken aback.
Like, yeah, there was something to feel guilty about. And so, so now he’s confronting her. She eventually talks to him. She’s silent for a long time, but she eventually She says, Bubba told me everything. And, and he says, Bubba didn’t tell you anything, Bubba’s dead. And she says, I know. And RUNS AWAY!! Ohhh, Jesus.
Ahahaha. I loved that, like, Ugh, I just, it felt like a standoff between them. It’s so uncomfortable because of the power dynamic. Not only is he an adult man, but he clearly has some authority in this community. And she is just, you know, she is, she’s nothing, she has nothing, she’s a child. But when she came back at him with a, I know, it was like, right away.
And then I also liked that she ran around the corner and he was chasing her, and I think a cop stopped him and was like, What are you doing?
Todd: Party’s back there. Yeah.
Craig: And I kinda liked that tiny, and it’s the only one, but that tiny suggestion that somebody finally Was looking at this guy like what are you doing?
Todd: There’s just this hint that there is some authority here. You know, that it’s above this guy He can be put in his place and I love how these two women Absolutely every time put him in his place and stand up to him But he seems convinced that the woman is behind it And so we get this long evening thing where the woman is at home and she puts some tea cattle on the stove And she goes to start her knitting, and I, I jumped, Han comes out from behind her, her rocking chair, and goes around her mouth, and it’s, I mean, there’s no question that it’s, that it’s Otis.
And, uh, he starts threatening her, and he says, I know that you’re doing this, now you’ve got two, And, uh, there better not be a third, yadda yadda yadda yadda, and, uh, when he moves his hand away from her mouth, she has had a heart attack.
Craig: Heh, that was weird. I could see the moment when it happened, like, the actress Yeah, it was there.
The actress acted it, like, Heh, heh, heh, heh, heh. Something in her eyes, like, Shifted, and I could see, oh, something just happened, but at the same time I was thinking, are you serious? I know, I always hate this. Did she just like, did she just have a stroke and die? Like, cause he takes his hand off her mouth and moves around in front of her and then just realizes that she’s dead.
He scared her to death.
Todd: Which is always hokey in movies. For a brief moment, I thought maybe you’d suffocated her and I was like, okay, that could be cool. But no. No. She just was scared to death. That was disappointing. But this asshole, as he is leaving, looks at the kettle on the stove and reali gets his plan.
And so he basically, uh I like I like that
Craig: because the as he’s walking out, The kettle starts screaming and it’s a jump scare. It scares him. It didn’t scare me, but it startled me. And that’s what gives him the idea. He takes the tea kettle off and turns the gas off and then hesitates and turns it back on.
I also don’t, this doesn’t ring true to me. Like if you have a burning fire and your fireplace and the gas gets turned on, will your house explode as though. A ton of TNT was in there. A nuclear weapon dropped on it. That was like,
Todd: that was literally a mushroom cloud.
It’s true folks. It was a mushroom cloud. The TV movies got to use stock footage, I guess, you know, they were each way back into the world war two archives. And also all of the nice things that I said about the production of the movie kind of go out the window when you see the charred remains of this house the next day, which looks like.
Just a handful of flats that have been kind of cut up a little bit and had black paint sprayed all over him. Oh, God. But anyway, now that she’s
Craig: dead, and I think that he believes that she had nothing to do with it, he’s convinced that it must be Bubba, that he wasn’t really dead, and even though they shot him 27 times, he’s convinced, so he goes and gets the last remaining guy, Skeeter.
And they go to dig him up and this is in the middle of the night. They shot all of the night scenes night for night. And I’m impressed by that because it’s hard and, uh, it looks good. It looks great. Yeah, it looks really good. But so they go and they dig up his grave and you don’t, again, you don’t see anything, but when Skeeter opens it, he’s still in there.
So Skeeter freaks out. And at this point, this is why I felt a little bad for him because he seems very childlike too. He’s very scared and he’s crying and it seems like he never wanted to be messed up in all of this, and he just wants to go to the police and confess.
Todd: Is a bit of a trope in these movies, isn’t it?
There’s always a slower guy who is part of the group, who didn’t quite want to go along with it, but ended up doing it, but is haunted by it a little bit, but will still kind of go along with everything at the end. Until this point where he completely freaks out. I mean, that’s in, uh. I spit on your grave is like that.
I spit on your grave, we just did Last House on the Left, had that in there. Yeah. Um, it’s, it’s not uncommon at all.
Craig: Yeah, so, I mean, he did it, but you kind of feel bad for him, but, and then you also feel bad for him because Otis is obviously manipulating him and gets him to go back to the grave. He’s like, okay, we’ll go to the cops, but first we have to go, And cover up the grave.
We can’t leave it open like that. And so Skeeter gets down in the grave. I mean, I saw it, it was projected. I saw it a mile away. Otis takes the shovel and kills him. I did think it was a like chef’s kiss touch that he hits the guy over the head. And this guy has been wearing a really distinctive hat the whole movie.
Like a red and white polka dot hat that I had noticed every time he was wearing it. And Otis hits him over the head with the shovel and he pulls the shovel back and the hat is stuck to the shovel.
Todd: That was such a smart and clever way of doing the violence and putting a little hint of it in. You know, it’s almost like the blood spray on the walls, but way more sophisticated, you know?
To do this in this TV movie, it was like, they were re He was really trying to find ways to really get the impact across without, you know, while staying within the bounds of the censorship. I was. Really impressed with that bit. And he disdainfully yanks it off and chucks it in there. What a dick, this guy.
He’s terrible. I cannot wait for this man to die.
Craig: And then he drives away and he’s drunk. And he just happens to stumble upon Mary Lee in the middle of the road. And she runs off. And he chases her in the dirt. Post office jeep, and he catches up to her, and she’s in a pumpkin patch.
Todd: There’s a little more Halloween for ya.
And he starts to accuse her. He’s like, I know what you did. And then, a noise fires up behind him, and some lights, and there is a piece of machinery. Now, it’s like a plow with a It’s a
Craig: bulldozer slash Yeah, I don’t think they have these things. It’s like a mullet. It’s like, it’s like bulldozer in the back, or bulldozer in the front, tiller in the back.
Todd: Maybe, maybe I’m ignorant though. Maybe this is something very specific for harvesting pumpkins or something. It seems very practical. I’m not going to go
Craig: on record. I don’t know. But it, it comes on supernaturally, and then it chases it, and it’s also unlike any, I don’t know if bulldozer is the right word, but it’s got, you know, like a scoop.
I don’t know. In the front, but the scoop also has tines, a jaw. It’s like a jaw that closes down, chases them like chomping its jaws. Yeah, I liked it at the same time. You know, I’m like, I don’t know. The guy running, I’m like, turn to
Todd: the right. I don’t know. I think he was drunk and he was scared. This is what I was thinking.
He was drunk and he’s scared. And he does in this pumpkin patch is probably muddy. It’s very, there’s lots of things to trip over. God knows he does. They remind us every other shot that this thing is churning up pumpkins behind it. And I think it’s teasing us. It’s trying to make us think that he’s going to get.
Chomped with this thing and or and or run over by that thing and it’s very smart It’s so much better.
Craig: Yeah, this was great. This was so great It’s chasing him and you’re absolutely positive that’s gonna catch him It’s either gonna catch him in its jaws and then you’re right and then also probably run over him and chop him up But it doesn’t at all.
It’s just chasing him, and he’s looking back at it, and he turns around, and he runs right into the scarecrow.
Todd: Yes, with a pitchfork sticking straight out.
Craig: You don’t know that right away. You know, like, he just runs into it, and they’re face to face, and he looks at it, but then he backs up, and you hear kind of a Squishy sound.
But
Todd: you heard a little bit of that, that sound when he ran into it. I mean, that was the first thing I thought of. I was like, Oh my God. I let out an audible gasp when that happened. A, it was a big surprise. And B, like the poetic justice of it was just on point.
Craig: Yes. Yes. I loved it. I loved it. I wanted him to die so badly.
And I thought that the way that he did was perfect. Face to face. With
Todd: the scarecrow. I loved it. Oh, man. So, it appears that this girl set all this up somehow. And yet, we could see very clearly that the plow went on supernaturally. Yeah. Like, there was a shot of the inside of that. With the thing moving forward.
I read
Craig: that that was not in the original cut. That’s like a really one or one or two second cut that they put in with one of the DVD releases. I read that in the trivia, so I was, I noticed it that you see it. Shit. I wish they had left it out by itself. I know. Shit, I wish they had kept it out. It’s true, but.
How else are you going to explain how these things turned themselves off and on? Like, was there somebody behind the scenes? Was Bubba, like, as a spirit or whatever, actually doing these things? I don’t know. And ultimately, I feel like it doesn’t matter. I was really surprised by the end. And
Todd: yes, yeah,
Craig: really surprised.
I didn’t expect this because the whole movie had made it so ambiguous up until this point. You could walk away thinking it’s kind of a mystery. What really happened, but then the scarecrow,
Todd: the girl loves up. It looks up at the scarecrow and the scarecrow turns its head down with its big open black eyes and mouth.
That was creepy as hell.
Craig: Yes. And it was so creepy. And she says, thank you, Bubba. Tomorrow I’ll teach you a new game. The chasing game. Yes!
Todd: Wow. And she hands it a flower, which it takes, and there’s a freeze frame on that. Wow. I loved it. So, the spirit of the scarecrow, or the spirit of Bubba, or, what is it? I still am not 100 percent certain, and I also think, I It’s possible that you could argue that the girl did this, except for the fact that, you know, we saw that one shot where the thing moved by itself.
I mean, the girl kind of disappears at some point. She could have hopped in the, the plow, you know, and started it up and moved it towards him.
Craig: Yeah, I don’t know.
Todd: Or had an accomplice, you know, I don’t know. Yeah. I mean, it’s not as ambiguous. Could
Craig: be. But that’s the thing, that’s, that’s why I likened it to Pumpkinhead.
Because I do think that it is Bubba, but it’s also, you know, some kind of, like, supernatural vengeance thing, like, he’s there to avenge the real wrong. Bubba was a sweet, kind, gentle person. I don’t think that he wasn’t violent, he didn’t have violent tendencies, so, I mean, you know, it’s a movie, it’s a dumb, it’s a dumb, it’s that same kind of thing.
It’s But ghost stories do that all the
Todd: time, though.
Craig: Yeah.
Todd: Yeah. Where this person who was kind of innocent and wrongfully killed, who you wouldn’t imagine could kill anybody else, the spirit of them comes back and exacts like a horrific revenge on everybody else. You know, it doesn’t feel like that person anymore, right?
It feels like Right. Vengeful spirit, you know? Yeah.
Craig: The, yeah. Vengeful spirits all the time. We see it all the time. The, the one that just popped into my mind was Monster House. Oh, right. Yeah. That, that guy’s wife died and she just became a vengeful spirit. Yeah. Anyway, but I, I won’t say that I loved the movie, but I’m glad to have finally seen it.
Like you said, it’s been recommended so many times and I’m, I’m not really sure why I haven’t just watched it before, but I’m glad to finally have. I think it’s definitely 100 percent if you haven’t seen it, it is so worth the watch. So many familiar actors in it. It’s an interesting story and it’s well done.
I don’t think it’s great. I don’t think it’s a masterpiece. It’s not going to become like a Halloween tradition for me, but it was fun to see it for the first time. I can’t say it wasn’t a good time. It was a good time.
Todd: In many ways. It’s a very typical story. Like there’s nothing. Particularly different, you know, this is like a whole class of movies, like you said earlier, like, it’s a Tales from the Crypt kind of movie, it’s like a Twilight Zone kind of movie, it’s frickin House on Sorority Row, or Killing Mrs.
Tingle, or like, whatever, you know, where, where somebody gets killed. And the other people either get away with it, or cover it up, or don’t talk about it. And then, slowly but surely, this vengeful spirit or whatever, that’s a big mystery, is coming back to take its vengeance on each and every one of them until they’re all gone.
In that respect, it’s it’s nothing new, but I just thought it had elements in there that elevated it a little bit. I thought that it really tugged at the heartstrings more than I expected to. I really like that ambiguity of it up to the very end. I thought that the fact that the Scarecrow moved his head I mean, you know, we never saw the Scarecrow move.
We didn’t see, like, a trail of straw. You know, there was none, there were none of these things to hint that the Scarecrow was anything but just a thing that somebody could have propped up in any one of their yards and taken away or whatnot, who just kind of knew what was going on. And so, that really caught me off guard, and that was really eerie, that image of that scarecrow just suddenly turning down.
So, it just had these bits in it that really elevated it for me. But, because it’s this kind of movie, because so much of the movie hinges on, it’s really just this drama as to how is this unfolding and what is the mystery. Once you’ve seen it once, there aren’t a lot of compelling reasons to see it again, maybe.
Unless you’re showing it to somebody else, you know? It’s just not Emotionally, it’s not gonna be quite the same, so. Yeah. Oh, I totally recommend it, just like you. Love the movie. Perfect for Halloween. Absolutely perfect. Yes, yeah, great. You know what I learned, just kind of random fact, is that, uh, Oh, do you know Simon Barrett?
He’s a screenwriter. He, uh, He worked on the new Blair Witch, the Blair Witch, what do you call it, remake that came out or whatever, and he, He’s a co writer or writer of a lot of stuff like that Adam Wingard and Ty West do. He wrote You’re Next, He wrote a lot of the VHS series, and he wrote The Guest. Some of these movies we’ve really, really loved, and he was the screenplay and story guy for Godzilla vs.
King Kong, The New Empire, that just came out. He went on record saying that this is one of his two absolute favorite Halloween movies, and that it’s a shame that more people haven’t heard of it, more people haven’t seen it, because he just finds them really unique, and Stand out for like, you know, television movies.
They’re just a little more weird. He says, I just want to quote this. There was a streak where TV movies were kind of dangerous. After Spielberg did Duel, Don’t Go to Sleep is a ghost story with a little girl ghost. Dark Knight of the Scarecrow is like a creepy Scarecrow revenge movie, kind of a weird of mice and men, but with a scary supernatural Scarecrow.
They’re both really creepy and unnerving, and they are my go to creepy, spooky Halloween movies. I I so feel that, like, I
Craig: loved TV movies! They were events! Back in the day, you know, there would be tons of buildup, tons of advertising. And then I know we’ve talked about this before, but you would watch them and they were episodic.
You know, it would be over like four nights or something. And sometimes you would watch two hours, four nights in a row. Yeah. You would really invest in them, and then you would talk about them with people the next day.
Todd: Yeah, you’d have to wait for the next episode, right? You couldn’t just binge it all at once.
And we all knew they were gonna be a little tamer than the movies we saw. We all knew that the production value would be a bit lower and stuff, but then it came along and proved to all of us that holy shit, TV movies could actually be pretty scary.
Craig: There have been other ones. There were so many. There were Stephen King ones.
They did The Shining. There was, uh, Rose Red. Rose Red? Is that what that was called? That was a good one. There was one about a hospital
Todd: starring Andrew McCarthy. Some of those that you rattle off, those were later, you know what I mean? Those were later television I’m thinking like 70s and 80s, you know, when we were growing up.
But this is one of them. We never gave them enough credit for going that far, you know, as movies could go. So they were always sort of second fiddle. In my mind. And yet, we’ve already talked about several TV movies that scared the heck out of us. I mean, The Salem’s Lot was one when I was a kid anyway that scared me.
It, you know, we revisited It, and we were like, okay, it doesn’t really hold up as well as our memories did, but all of us, adults and kids alone, at the time, were freaking out over that movie. And it’s still, it’s still unsettling. Put this one in there, yeah. Other movies we’ve seen might as well have been kids TV movies, right?
I think The Lady in White was one of them.
Craig: Yeah.
Todd: You know, a lot of them we said, you know, this almost plays out like a TV movie. It just wasn’t. Yeah, it’s worth
Craig: it. Don’t let the fact that it’s a TV movie turn you off. In fact, I think it’s really interesting to watch these kind of movies and see how they can still tell a really good story.
And a scary story. I wasn’t scared by it, but it’s a scary story without all the violence and gore. It can be done. There are some people who are turned away from horror because they don’t like all of the violence and gore. It’s not like they don’t like a suspenseful story. They just don’t have the stomach for all of that.
And this would be something that would be great for somebody like that. Yeah. You want to watch a Halloween movie cause it’s the spooky season. You want to watch something spooky, but you don’t want a lot of blood and violence and gore. This is great. I recommend it a hundred percent.
Todd: Same here. Well, thank you so much for listening to another episode.
If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend. Here we are at Halloween season, why don’t you go to our website, or one of our, like our Facebook page, our Instagram, post up there what your favorite Halloween movies are and we can chat there. We’re certainly having these conversations back with the patrons at patreon.
com slash Chainsaw Horror. If you’d like to support the podcast, please go over there, consider signing up and becoming a member, the crew, and get access to all kinds of great features, minisows, we’re gonna have a couple Halloween minisows this month, you’re gonna love those. Until next time, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig.
With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.
Spooky Season 2024 has arrived! We kick off our annual Halloween series with a kid-friendly horror flick that the whole family can enjoy, based on R.L. Stine’s kid-friendly Goosebumps series of horror novels from the 90’s.
Did you know that R.L. Stine has sold more books than Stephen King? That’s a cool tidbit we learned from the mouth of the author himself (as played by Jack Black, of course). The movie cleverly avoids the tricky task of which of Stine’s 63+ Goosebumps books to adapt by just throwing the whole lot into one movie.
How will these kids team up with the prolific author to put back all the monsters they’ve unleashed from his books? Watch the movie to find out, then listen in and see if you agree with our assessment of it.
Stay tuned for more Halloween thrills to come!
Episode 409, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast
Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.
Craig: And I’m Craig.
Todd: Well, the Halloween season is upon us.
Craig: It’s so exciting. Oh my god. I love it so much.
Todd: At times like this, I I wish I were back in America every single time, just for this one month, if I could just, uh, have Halloween.
Craig: I know, you say for just this one month, but honestly, Todd, I don’t know why it is, but Halloween is having like a moment, and People are getting so into it that it’s starting in like late August.
Oh my God. Like people, people are getting so excited for spooky season so early. And then like by the very beginning of September streaming services were already featuring like their spooky stuff and their horror stuff. And it’s brilliant. You’re trying to depress me, aren’t you? I’m not trying to depress you, I just want you to know how happy it makes me.
Oh god. Oh god. You know, I’ve got all the fall stuff out in my house, and it’s my favorite time of the year.
Todd: Is
Craig: Spirit
Todd: Halloween already open in a bunch of places?
Craig: I don’t know. I’m not, you know, my town’s not big enough for a Spirit Halloween, so I don’t know
Todd: about that. You get to trip down the road a little bit.
Yeah. Also, Spirit Halloween always feels to me like a little bit of a cop out. Like, we didn’t have that growing up, right? There was no big, giant Halloween store that would pop up around the country when we were kids. No. You had to go to the mall and go to the Walmart or whatever.
Craig: Well, sometimes.
Sometimes. Something would pop up in one of those empty spaces in the mall, like, just Rare. Around Halloween, and it would be exclusively, like, costumes and stuff like that, but Yeah. Not all the time. I’ve never been to a Spirit Halloween. I don’t have any idea what they, like, are like on the inside. I, the, I know what the logo looks like.
I know what it looks like slapped on a big abandoned warehouse, but
Todd: Right. I’ve never been in one. It’s an interesting business model, that, that place. I didn’t even get it, you know, like, how do these just happen? You know, when I first saw them, I thought they were some one guy’s kind of, like, thing that he just did in this one place, and then I noticed, you know, oh, other towns had them too, and then I realized it’s this big intranational thing, and it’s this whole business, and it’s so cyclical, and it’s so weird how they just find places to pop up that are empty.
And the last time I was back for Halloween, which was two years ago, I guess? I went to one of these places with Kenshi, and I was kind of blown away. I was like, man, their selection has grown. Like, they have things that they clearly have made specifically for them, exclusive to them. Animatronics that you can, like, put in your yard and at your house and on your door and I mean it’s kind of elaborate.
I was impressed, but all that shit just sounds expensive to me. When I was a kid, we made our own stuff.
Craig: You know? And then what do you do with it for the rest of the year? Like, um, Home Depot is selling those enormous skeletons. Which are great, and I think they’re, you know, fun. But they’re like, 20 feet tall or something.
Like, where do you put that for the rest of the year? I know, right? Gosh, I don’t know. One might think that we were talking about the movie Spirit Halloween, but we’re not. Thank God. I heard it’s bad. I heard it’s bad too, I haven’t seen it. We’ll cover one of these years. I was really surprised you didn’t put it on the list.
I thought for sure you would, but Eh, let’s get these other ones out of the way first, shall we? Well, I think that the ones that you picked Are really good if we stick to the plan, I think all but one of the ones that we have planned are family friendly movies. Yeah. And I love that. Yeah. I love that so much.
I, you know, I think it’s gosh, you know, I don’t have kids of my own. I’ve got nieces and nephews and like my cousins have kids that call me uncle and stuff. But I think what a better way to spend if you’re a big fan of that, like if you’re a grownup. And you’re a big fan of the holiday season, what better way to celebrate it than to share it with your family, your kids, young people in your life.
These movies are going to be a lot of fun to talk about.
Todd: Well, and we talk about these kind of movies as gateway horror, you know, family friendly, kid friendly movies that are still scary enough, but not really, that you can watch with a younger child as well, but an older child and adult will enjoy it as well.
I think of Halloween as sort of a gateway horror holiday anyway, you know? Yeah, yeah. It’s probably, I would imagine, where I, if not many of us, picked up our love for horror, the horror genre in general. No, at least in part, sure. Yeah, I mean, that’s what got me into spooky stuff, you know? That’s what got me into spooky music, and movies, and books, and all that.
I would say, probably, at least, like you said, a very large contributor to it. And nowadays, Halloween is springing up around the world like it wasn’t even 10, 20 years ago. I don’t know if I mentioned this before, but I could say from experience that when I was living and teaching in Japan in the early 2000s, 2001 to 2004, I was introducing Halloween to my students.
Mm. I did a big unit during October where we would talk about Halloween traditions in America, and I would dress up, you know, for that last week, and I would encourage the kids to dress up, and our English club, we would have Halloween parties, and I’d organize, like, bobbing for apples and other disgusting stuff like that.
And now, the last time I went to Japan in October, which was just a couple years ago, it’s a thing there. They’re almost as big on Halloween as we are in the States now. You did it. I saw Halloween every Yeah, it was me! I planted the seed. You’re all welcome. And it grew! Mission accomplished. Yay me. So yeah, so I, I feel like even our international listeners, if, if by now have probably know a lot more about the Halloween holiday than they would have 10, 20 years ago and can probably relate to some of these movies because some of the movies we’ve picked are very Halloween specific.
This one is not. This one is the 2015 film Goosebumps based on the Goosebumps series of books. It’s so funny because we’ve been talking about Christopher Pike a lot because we do, we have this ongoing Christopher Pike book club now since we did the Midnight Club and all that. Um, we did at least one or two minisodes about some Christopher Pike related stuff for our patrons and uh, so I’m really in that mind space.
Like you and I are now reading a Christopher Pike book like all the time now. We’re on what? Yeah. The sixth or seventh one I think?
Craig: I have no idea. A lot. We tried to figure this out yesterday. We were thinking more like nine or ten. I think you’re
Todd: right. I think you’re right. But like, that’s in my headspace now, recently, and it kind of brings me back to when I was an adolescent.
And I, Chris, R. L. Stine, and the Goosebumps were just a little too young for me when they came out. But I just remember at the time thinking of them as, Oh, this is like the Christopher Pike for the young kids. So, I never read a single Goosebumps book, but they were HUGE! Like, absolutely huge. And my understanding is they were huge around the world, they were translated into like 35 different languages.
I’ve talked to people I know from other countries who’ve said, Oh yeah, I read some of those books when I was growing up too. So, uh, major international phenomenon. I was surprised to learn, uh, the second best book serie uh, selling book series of all time. After Harry Potter? Yeah. Crazy. Wow. 400 or 450 million copies sold around the world and counting, and Harry Potter’s up to 600 million.
It’s just
Craig: nuts. Jack Black, who plays R. L. Stine in the movie, says something really early on.
Clip: You’re him,
Craig: aren’t you?
Clip: You’re R. L. Stine. R. L. who? I don’t know who that is. Oh, really? Well, just as well, because his books suck. What are you doing? I can’t decide which one I hate. Or, go eat worms. I’m so confused. You see the endings coming from a mile away.
It’s like, stop trying to be Stephen King, man.
Let me tell you something about Steve King. Steve King wishes he could write like me. And I’ve sold way more books than him, but nobody ever talks about that! Okay. WAY MORE BOOKS!
Craig: And I thought, that can’t be true. So I immediately looked it up and it is. What? That’s crazy. By a margin of like a hundred million.
Yeah, it blew, it blew my mind. But then I thought about it and I thought, wait a second. Stephen King, as prolific as he is, and he’s very prolific putting out like a book a year. I don’t know. Cause I didn’t follow the Goosebumps thing either. We had book club yesterday and we talked about this and they were all shocked.
You know, they’re all. One of them is, is exactly my age and the rest of them are about five years younger than me. So I think that it just, we, you and I just missed it. Like it was just too young for us. Just barely. So anybody even some, some people even just like five years younger than us who are into the same types of things that we were like, this was touchstone for them.
And they were shocked, shocked that I had never, Read a single rl stein book either you too, huh? Yeah, yeah, not a single one and I do I remember overlooking them because I read mostly steven king or excuse me Mostly christopher pike, but not exclusively there were some other adolescent teen Authors that I read occasionally, but I always looked at the goosebumps books and even just the way that they were published They were They looked like kids books.
They were made like kids books. They weren’t your standard novel size. They were, they were larger and the print was larger. They were shorter for sure. They were shorter. And the, the artwork on the front, what I really enjoyed it. I looked at it cause it was fun to look at, but. It looked more like it was for kids, and the subject matter looked more like it was for kids, like the blob that ate everyone, and Yeah.
Yeah, the titles sounded like they were meant for younger kids. Ultimately, I’m a little disappointed that I didn’t pick them up back then, because I think that I probably would have been pleasantly surprised, but Anyway, coming into this movie, I had seen it before. I didn’t realize how old it was. Gosh, time goes by so quickly when you’re an adult.
It’s true. I would have told you probably this movie came out four or five years ago. Yeah. It’s been almost ten years, so I had forgotten about that. But I know that I had seen it before, but I remembered nothing about it. And I always think, like, that can’t be a good sign. Like, if you saw it and you remember nothing about it, that can’t be a good sign.
But I was watching it yesterday. And I was, I really enjoyed it. Like, it’s not specifically centered around Halloween, but it feels like such, it feels like a Halloween movie. Ironically enough, there’s a sequel to it that is about Halloween. Like Halloween is in the title, but I don’t know anything about it, whether it’s good or not.
But I sat and watched this and I really liked it and it felt more like. Kids horror movies from when we were younger that they don’t really make it was still anymore
Todd: Yeah,
Craig: it was still maybe a little bit tamer, but it felt like the monster squad or yeah
Todd: Where kids are battling against monsters? Yeah that are in their neighborhood,
Craig: right and like action action heavy and Not terribly scary, but no a suspect like like it kept you on your edge of the seat Your seat and like the action sequences and stuff and it’s, it’s, it is action heavy with like car chases and big monsters, you know, running around, destroying the town and like, like a whole horde of months, like there’s a lot going on in this movie.
Todd: It’s, it’s got a madcap pace that kind of just never stops, but also it’s very inoffensive. Y’know, nobody dies, you never feel like anyone’s ever going to die or be hurt in any way, like, Y’know, it just has that tone of, Alright, this is like a, quote unquote, safe kid’s movie. Right. Y’know, my seven year old son might be scared by a few things in here, but not because there are horrible things happening, just because the monsters might be a little scary and he’ll think about them later, y’know?
Craig: Look a little scary, sure. Yeah,
Todd: yeah.
Craig: But I was also thinking, I, I, I wonder, I can only imagine that if you were a fan of the books, that this would be just glorious, like, because it references a countless number of, of his books. And, and I read that people had been interested in Anne R. L. Stine movie for a long time, but I think R.
L. Stine said, like, there were so many books that they didn’t know where to start or which one to choose. And at different. points in time different projects were being talked about like at one point Tim Burton was Toying with doing something with RL Stein George Romero wrote a script. Yeah For an adaptation of one of his books.
Can you imagine? I know
Todd: right
Craig: what of
Todd: course it was one that involves zombies I read a little synopsis of what it was supposed to be It was like the first one, Welcome to the Dead House or something, which involves zombies, I suppose. And George Romero wrote this thing where, yeah, eventually the neighborhood’s gonna be taken over by zombies and whatnot.
That would be interesting to see him doing a children’s movie like that. Did he ever do a children’s movie? I Somewhere in my head I think we did something childlike, but I don’t remember. I don’t know. Part of the genius, I guess, of this movie is that it takes the same approach that the Alone in the Dark movie did.
In that it’s not about any one book, and so it’s basically about the fictionalized other book. R. L. Stine and him writing these books, and in this world, his books are dangerous, you know, the books themselves. It’s
Craig: brilliant. Yeah. It’s a brilliant conceit, I love it. Well, we should, we should talk about it when we get Yeah,
Todd: but yeah, so that’s why this book, this, this movie had, took so long to come out, is because they, everybody was fretting over which book to do, and none of them could really agree or figure out a good story for a full length movie based on it.
Any one of these short books. So yeah, I like that aspect to it too. I think Jack Black is always fun and great in the stuff he’s in. And like you, uh, well, unlike you, I’d never seen this movie before. But, uh, like you, I jumped into it knowing full, full well what it was. I was not disappointed by it. And I was kind of along for the ride.
And not at all scared ever, but uh, enjoying myself nonetheless and, and what better movie to put you in the Halloween spirit, you know, than something like this.
Craig: And it’s fun and funny and, and it’s shot well. One of my only complaints, and it’s like, I don’t know, who cares? The CGI is a little iffy in places.
It’s a little dated. Yeah. And it’s, uh, It’s pretty CG, it’s CGI heavy. So that was a little disappointing, but get over it. Like, okay, great. It doesn’t look that great, but just enjoy it for what it is. Hey, if
Todd: we can handle choppy stop motion animation from an earlier day and, uh, you know, grubby prosthetic effects and things like that, this, uh, we can handle crummy CGI, I suppose.
Less than perfect CGI. Let’s put it that way.
Craig: Yeah. It’s pretty to look at and it’s got. Really good people in it people that you will recognize not necessarily like huge a list stars But I recognize so many people in this movie and it’s funny So it’s got a lot going for it out of the gate. It’s this story about okay, so it starts out I don’t know If now we have to say every aerial shot of a car driving down a road is an homage to the shining.
I have no idea, but that’s how it starts. An aerial shot of a car driving into this small town. So typical, dragging a U Haul, classic horror movie setup. Exactly. Oh, we’re, we’re moving to a new place, right? Okay, great. So it’s, it’s Zach played by Dylan Minnette, who was in, I think he’s most famous for like the 13 reasons why series, which I haven’t seen, but he was also in one of the new screams that I’m.
I think you and I talked about, I don’t remember, and his mom, single mom, I don’t know if they, did the dad die? I don’t remember. I think
Todd: that, I mean, we never get it clearly said to us, but, uh, it seems like he did. The way that they’re kind of like, uh, staring at his picture, and his son is looking at old videos of him, it seems more like he died rather than he left.
Craig: Yeah, single mom Gail, played by Amy Ryan, who was great in The Office, and she was also in Only Murders in the Building. She’s so funny. She doesn’t have a huge role here, but I just, I’m a big fan of hers. So, they move into this big house in this little small town, and it’s, it looks, you know, like Grover’s Corners, like, you know, like, every, every back lot, small town set you’ve ever seen.
Todd: By the way, it, it’s, uh, Did it strike you that this beautiful house on this street was impossibly large for these two people? I mean,
Craig: Oh, it’s always that always like that, right? I mean, it’s huge houses.
Todd: You’re a school teacher. Do you think that an assistant principal at the local public school would be able to afford
Craig: like this?
Oh, gosh, no, no, especially now like that house would be over a million dollars. Oh, yeah. Oh, gosh. Okay, so it bit right away. Zach sees The somebody next door, like, like close the blinds really fast or something. And then he meets the guy next door, Jack Black, who introduces himself as Mr. Shivers, but he’s R.
L. Stein. And there’s an Aunt Lorraine who is played by Jillian Bell, who I recognized just last year. There was, I think it was just last year. There was a new Christmas movie starring Eddie Murphy called Candy Cane Lane, and she’s the funny antagonist in it. And that’s a really cute movie. If you haven’t seen it, you should watch it this Christmas time.
We also meet a young girl, you know, apparently Zach’s age. Hannah, played by Odeya York, I didn’t really recognize her from anything, but there’s obviously a connection between these young people right away and they’re gonna be little cute love interests or whatever. But R. L. Stein warns Zach.
Clip: Do you see the fence?
I, yes. Stay on your side of it. You stay away from my daughter. You stay away from me. And we won’t have a problem.
Craig: Yes. Multiple times. If I’m being totally honest, I’m a big Jack Black fan. I think that he’s a hilarious actor and he seems to be a really cool, genuinely good guy in real life. I just wasn’t feeling his choices in this movie.
And that’s just a personal opinion. I read somewhere that Jim Carrey was a At one point in time considered for the role. I’m not as big a fan of Jim Carrey as I am of Jack Black, but R. L. Stein, the actual man makes a cameo in the end of this movie. And he, Jim Carrey would have Jim Carrey looks like he would have kind of nailed it.
Todd: The best that Jack Black can do is some dark, uh, glasses. Some dark rimmed glasses. And he’s affecting what he said was more of an Orson Welles type of approach. And it, I mean it does. He sounds like he’s affecting a kind of Orson Welles accent. And it’s fine. I mean, but you’re right. It’s nothing special, I guess.
It’s not Particularly endearing or funny. It’s just kind of vanilla. I don’t know. What can you say about it? Yeah.
Craig: Yeah, I mean he made a choice and that’s fine. It’s just I didn’t particularly care for it but and then there’s also You know the mom is the vice principal at the school and the son goes to school and like meets people and stuff and he meets this Dorky kid named champ who’s played by this kid Named Ryan Lee, who was doing a lot of work at this time and just before he was in a hilarious TV show with Malin Ackerman called Trophy Wife, which got canceled after one season.
And I was so mad because it was hilarious. Bradley Whitford was in it. Gosh, some other really good people were in it. That was so funny. Alan and I liked it so much and it got canceled. He was in that and he was doing a lot of other work as a kid. I don’t know if he’s still doing a lot of work now, but he’s really funny.
He’s so
Todd: funny. He was in Black Friday, which was one of our holiday picks. Was it last year or the year before? Yeah. Yeah. He played one of the. One of the employees in the store. Yeah, whatever it was.
Craig: So I guess what Zach and Hannah though They’ve been forbidden to see each other immediately see each other Yeah, you know, she doesn’t go to school with them and she’s like what’s high school really like or something and he’s like What do you mean?
She’s like, well, I’m homeschooled. Okay, whatever but she’s like, come on Let me show you something and they go out into the woods behind their house Behind their house, I guess, which like overlooks the whole town. Like it’s gorgeous. And there’s an abandoned carnival out there and it’s apparently been abandoned for a long time.
He’s like, Whoa, you know, what’s this place? And she’s like, Oh, they built it a long time ago, but then they ran out of money, but then she goes on to like flip a switch on a generator and like the whole place lights up,
Todd: the whole thing. As improbable as, uh, this little abandoned carnival in the middle of the woods right behind their house with a giant Ferris wheel that goes up above the tall treetops and this cool looking farmhouse. And
Craig: it’s like her secret place. Yeah,
Todd: right? Like, uh, as cool as that is, as unlikely as that was.
I would have loved to have that to explore as a kid.
Craig: Oh my gosh. It’s an amazing set piece. Like there’s like a fun house and it’s really fun. And for a movie like this, it’s a great set piece and they return to it later, but they have a cute little moment or whatever. And I don’t really remember. So I guess when they come home.
They get caught? Is that what happens? No, when
Todd: they come home, she just goes into her house, he’s sleeping, and uh, he wakes up to hear arguing across the way. And when he looks out the window, he sees the shadow of her and her dad, R. L. Stine, and she screams. And he panics, he thinks that maybe she’s in trouble, and he runs over there and bangs on the door.
Doesn’t really get a response, gets and then ends up calling the cops.
Craig: Yeah, and these dumb, dumb cops come over. Oh
Todd: my god, the cop thing was so stupid. Like, look, I don’t have high expectations for the, you know, this movie being particularly clever, witty, or realistic. I know they’re throwing in a lot of slapstick and a lot of these jokes, and it’s a it’s a very kid type humor with a lot of this stuff.
But those cops were just Almost offensively dumb. I mean, come on. One of them is so stupid. The guy opens the door and she whips her gun out and says, Freeze! And the other cop’s like, Calm down, calm down. I’m sorry. She’s our cop in training right now. No, we don’t need guns at this point, ma’am. Like, oh my god.
Craig: And the kid says he heard a scream and Jack Black shows them a TV with like, I don’t know, like he’s watching a horror movie and a girl screams. I don’t know if one of them says, why is it so loud? And he says, Freeze! I’m sorry, is it against the law to be an audio file? And she like freaks out and rips out her gun.
Oh, what a file. Like he insulted her. No, like she, like she thought he had a file. Yeah. Like she didn’t know what the word meant. Right. Cause she’s a dummy. Like that’s the whole gag. She’s a big dumb dummy.
Todd: Not only a big dumb dummy, but a big dumb dummy who just is gonna whip out her gun at every small infraction.
Yeah.
Craig: Oh boy, oh boy. So stupid. But he says Hannah’s not even there. He says she flew back to London.
Todd: He said that she’s visiting him, like, because she’s on holiday from her mother.
Craig: Her mother’s getting remarried or something? I don’t know. So he says she’s gone. The cops leave. But then, Zach sees him arguing with somebody again in there.
So, he’s like, He, he calls champ over and, and lies and says, they’re going to go to the dance. By the way, this is the night of the dance. That’s so funny. Right?
Todd: Cause like they’re making this big deal about the dance and Zach has no indication of he’s going to go to this dance at all. No. Well, I mean, they just got there.
He doesn’t know what he, I don’t know. But his mom’s got to go there and like chaperone the thing. There’s like no mention made of it, except that she says to somebody, well, I gotta go chaperone the dance now. Also, Are they having
Craig: a dance on like the first weekend of school? Like, didn’t school just start?
I think so, yeah. Like the first night.
Back to school dance. It’s formal. That good old fall
Todd: dance that
Craig: gets earlier and earlier every year. So he calls champ over to, and says like, I’ve got a couple of girls and we’ll go to the dance. So champ, champ comes over in a full suit. Like, and so he’s wearing this suit and he’s such a goofy looking kid anyway.
So then to put him in a full suit for the whole movie, it’s, it’s. It’s pretty hilarious, but they set it up that I guess Zach set it up. He called R. L. Stein’s house and claimed to be the police and said he needed to come down to the station. And then he and champ break in through the cellar. Where there are bear traps?
Lots of bear traps. Down there,
Todd: yeah. I’m
Craig: not exactly sure why.
Todd: I think by the end of the movie it might be, that might be why. Like their protection for him, not, not about people coming in, but about things getting out. Also, who would do that? You know how dangerous those bear traps are? Right. Yeah, you’ll shatter your leg and permanently injure yourself break your leg to come downstairs and but yeah He makes his way through the bear traps and I’m sure I am sure there are tons of little Easter eggs down there with all The detritus that’s sitting around.
I know there’s a cuckoo clock that pops out at him that references one of our L Sine stories and whatnot, but they make it through the basement they come up into the house now It’s really funny to me that The conceit here is that R. L. Stine and his daughter there move around a lot, like every few years or every couple years or something like that.
Like, they’re always on the move. But when you look at this house, it looks like they are set up and have been living in there for centuries. Ha ha ha ha ha. Yeah. It’s got all this antique y furniture in there. It’s your classic, almost like a spooky mansion type set up with things. Yeah. Including, what they come across is a bookshelf that lights up and is filled with manuscripts.
Bound manuscripts, all of them with the same just plain black cover and taped on the side. And
Craig: handwritten titles.
Todd: Yeah, there’s a lot of care put into these books, including having his name stamped at the bottom of every one. R. L. Stine. But when it came down to the title, he had to hand write it on and And they’re all locked.
These are all Goosebumps manuscripts. What’s he doing
Clip: with a bunch
Todd: of kids books? But,
Clip: but, these aren’t kids books. Okay, kids books help you fall asleep. These books keep you up all night. Okay. Carl Stein, whatever happened to that guy?
Craig: That’s a good question. Like, is, is he still writing? Do you know?
Todd: Yeah, he’s still writing.
He’s still doing, he’s been a writer since forever. Even before the Goosebumps. You know, the Goosebumps books, because I was very curious about this. He was almost 50. When he started writing the Goosebumps books and then he he pumped out like 63 of them and plus some spin off series and you know normally Writers who do this kind of thing, like even the big writers, will have ghost writers.
The Nancy Drew and Hardy Boy books were written by so many different people just under one pen name. But R. L. Stine literally sat down and wrote every single one of these books. He’s super prolific. And before he started writing the Goosebumps books, he was writing for television, he Do you remember a Nickelodeon show called Eureka’s Castle?
Vaguely, I don’t think I watched it, but the name sounds familiar. The late 80s and stuff. He created that show, and uh, wrote most of the material for it, and was writing Humor. Books for kids, and, and, always kids stuff, it seems like. He got into writing these Goosebumps things at the request of a publisher who I think wanted to start this series, and, uh, that just really, really took off.
65 books, I mean, can you imagine? Now, the guy apparently was at his height here at this era, and this would have been from the 92 to 90. I mean, this was right when we were in high school, and I think that’s why it just kind of bypassed us, but it’s like 92 to 95 or 96 at his height. He was making 40 million a year.
Craig: Oh my gosh.
Todd: You believe it?
Craig: He’s so widely known, and his properties are used all the time, like, Netflix is still doing those Fear Street movies. There’s a new one coming out soon, I think. Is there
Todd: really?
Craig: I’m happy to hear that, because I liked the first three. I really did. Yeah, I’m pretty sure. But yeah, so there’s all these books, and they’re all locked.
But there’s a key in, under a bell jar, just in plain sight, like, lock that up, bro!
It’s so dumb. So they get it out. And they pop open one of the books and it like falls to the floor and then Hannah appears and she’s like, what are you doing here? And they’re like, we thought you were in trouble and I don’t know. And she’s like, you didn’t open a book, did you? And he’s like, yeah, but it’s fine.
And he picks it up and it starts to like match. I really liked this sequence. Like the, the letters start to like bleed off of the page into the air. And then they are kind of like smoke. And it was awesome. They start to fall. Yeah, it was really cool. And it eventually forms the Abominable Snowman because that’s the book that they opened and it’s not great CGI.
I mean, It looks fine, but it looks, it doesn’t look like a real thing in the
Todd: room. I know what you mean. It’s early CGI, earlier CGI. It’s not that early. It’s 2015 for God’s sakes, but it’s still not, I read that this was Sony picture animations, first film that wasn’t an animated film, correct? So I assume that their animated film division did a lot of this.
And so I assume that they didn’t have. As much experience with doing something that was a mix. Yeah. So probably getting that mix of live action animation right, it probably was a little, a bit of an earlier effort for them.
Craig: Well, and maybe it was a choice. Maybe it was a choice to make it a little bit more cartoony.
Maybe if it had been too real, it wouldn’t have been. Well, that’s true. For kids. Yeah. I don’t know. Whatever. It’s an Abominable Snowman. Okay. So, you know, it. I don’t know, what, chases them and stuff? And then it busts out of the house, like it busts like the whole side, the whole side out of the house. And then Jack Black comes back, he’s like, See, I told you something bad would happen!
Todd: Well, I just think it’s funny because the minute they leave the house and they go to, I guess, I guess they follow the path of destruction or something. It’s just so hilarious because it’s the middle of the night. So of course they, you know, they want to situate at night cause it’s more fun. And I guess the whole neighborhood, they’re just very, very heavy sleepers because this abominable snowman has apparently stomped through the whole neighborhood, led a path of cars with their alarms going off.
Nobody ever pops out of a house to see what’s going on and leads them somehow to the ice rink. Of course the Abominable Snowman is gonna make a beeline for the ice rink, right? Yeah. And the minute they pop into this old ice rink, I’m thinking, Oh, this is cute. So I wonder, how many different little set pieces are we gonna have around town?
You know? Is there gonna be the arcade? A lot. Is there gonna be, obviously we’re gonna be at the school at some point. We gotta end up at the carnival, probably at the end. And so I, just in my head, I was kinda checking off the boxes of all the different places they could go. And by golly, they hit almost all of them.
Ha ha ha ha! But it’s at the ice rink and so she opens the book and she gets close enough to it The whole movie feels like one big chase sequence after a while. Yeah, it does but it’s fun. It is exciting Yeah This is the beginning of it and so she sucks the ends up they end up together getting that thing sucked back into the book Because Jack Black shows up
Craig: right?
Yeah, he’s there with them. He drove them there. I think But that’s, that’s the setup is that I guess if you get, it’s like Ghostbusters, like you get close enough to him and you open up the book and it’ll like suck them back in before they leave the house, Jack Black monologues about what happened, like when he was a kid, he was lonely and he didn’t have any friends.
And so he had to invent his own friends and, and he invented these monsters and he wrote about them and then. They came to life
Todd: because his imagination was just so vivid. It’s a real ego stroke for R. L. Stine. Let’s put it that way.
Craig: Well, it’s better than the real story. Well, one day I was approached by a publisher.
I suppose so. But he has to keep them, he has to keep them locked in the books, that’s the only way to be safe, they have to stay locked in the books. And also before they leave, you see another book just pop open, I’m not really sure why that is. Yeah. But another book just pops open, so. That seemed
Todd: Like, cheating.
I didn’t get that at all. If they were all locked by the key, and the key was keeping them safe, and he screwed up by unlocking the book, why does this one book, that just because it fell on the floor, gets to pop open on its own later? But they all kinda do, I guess, don’t they? It’s not the only one.
Craig: Well, no, because I feel I don’t remember when it happens, but you see, when that book opens up, it’s Night of the Living Dummy.
So, Slappy, the ventriloquist dummy, Is out like I feel like slappy’s doing his own thing back at the house Like he burns his own book and he’s like talking to He says i don’t papa. He calls rl stein papa He’s like papa all of your children are coming out to play and he takes all the books and I think He opens them.
Yeah, I think you’re right. It’s a little tenuous. I think he opens some of them, but then there’s also a big reveal at the, like, not a reveal, but there’s a big moment at the end where they open all of them. So some monsters come
Todd: out first. Yeah, I guess you’re right. Well, he takes all the books and he ends up driving off.
We don’t get to see how the dummy drives the car, but, you know, he’s magical. He gets he can do what he wants. He drives off and leaves them to come home. And when they all get back, they find that the books are open and something’s burned. He’s like, oh no, this is my biggest, uh, Basically, I think that Night of the Living Dummy was one of the most notorious of his books, right?
It’s one of the most recognizable characters and covers.
Craig: I think in large part because of the TV show. I think that And I may be wrong because I didn’t watch the TV show either, but I think that Slappy was a big part of the TV show. I think, I could be making that up. But yeah, I think it’s one of his most iconic ones.
Yeah. I can picture clearly the book cover, that character is, and I think that it’s an iconic character for a certain generation. I think that Well, you know, ventriloquist dummies, this isn’t new. That’s the thing, like, his books aren’t particularly novel, for lack of a better word. Like, they, immediately when they get back, they get attacked by garden gnomes.
At some point, there’s a blob, like literally the blob.
Todd: It’s
Craig: literally
Todd: pink and big and
Craig: veiny, just like the blob is,
Todd: yeah.
Craig: And I just remember seeing Seeing those book covers and I remember seeing all of these specific ones. I remember seeing the the lawn gnomes the The giant praying mantis the man eating plants and yeah, the venus fly traps that are the venus fly traps I remember seeing those and just thinking Oh, that’s cute.
Like, like that’s taming down horror for, for kids. Yeah. But I didn’t feel like it was for me. But it is cute. And like, the aliens that freeze the cops, you know, like there’s these aliens walking, they, they kind of look like, kind of, not really, kind of like the Mars attacks aliens running around, like freezing people in the street and stuff.
All of this is. It’s cute. It’s cute, but it’s also super fun. Like, I don’t want to make it sound like it’s stupid because I didn’t find it stupid at all. I was really into it. I’m like, this is fun. Well,
Todd: I mean, I think, you know, what you and I are kind of talking about, it’s probably why we didn’t pick up the books in the first place.
It’s because we looked at them. We’re like, yeah, that’s cute. But you know, I’m just like, I’m not going to pick up a kid’s book about Frankenstein’s monster or a mummy. I’m Probably going to give these a pass, but when you throw them all together in this movie, like you said, like the monster squad or whatever, it becomes kind of fun.
It’s, I’ve heard this movie described as sort of a cabin in the woods for kids.
Craig: Yeah, yeah, sure.
Todd: All the monsters of all different kinds have been released and they’re wreaking havoc and it’s, that’s fun. I really actually, I really like this garden dome sequence. I thought it was one of the most clever sequences in the whole movie.
Because, you know, these garden gnomes are made out of, you know, they’re ceramic and they’re hollow and so there’s all this cuteness of where they kind of come out of the book and they assemble themselves and they’re going to work like as a team doing things and then Jack Black and the kids come home and they’ve got to fight them off and they’re breaking them and they’re shattering them and they’re Chucking them in the oven and watching them burn up, but then like the pieces of them are able to reassemble
Craig: Yeah, but they can’t be killed.
Yeah, they can’t be killed at all. None of the monsters can correct Yeah, I guess that’s what the bear traps are for But all it does is slow them down because they Hannah told them told the boys When they were chasing the abominable snowman, they can’t be killed. The only thing that you can do is get them back in the book.
So, and, and again, like you said, nobody dies in the movie. Literally nobody, like not even the bad guys die. Like, uh, if, if your, if your kid gets attached to those little gnomes, he’ll see them get crushed, but they just. reassemble themselves and are fine.
Todd: The monsters don’t seem to give a care. The people, you know, you know, are gonna be fine.
It’s just that kind of movie. I love it that, that Slappy now goes to, I think the only other two characters in the movie they can possibly do something to, and that’s the two cops. Who are apparently the only two cops on the force in the town. And they come back, and their police station I think is dark or whatever, and they flip on the light, and there is Slappy sitting in the chair.
And immediately, of course, the cop draws her gun on him, and he looks at her, And he says my favorite line in the whole movie.
Clip: I come in peace, unarmed! Ha! Ha! Ha!
Craig: Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Oh
Clip: god. He’s
Craig: funny. Slappy is funny. And I do like Jack Black’s performance as Slappy. Yeah, his voice, right. He’s not credited.
Yeah, it’s his voice.
Todd: And thank God that for most of it, too, they didn’t use CGI on Slappy. That was an honest to God puppet, and you could tell it was really, it was really good that they did it that way, I think.
Craig: Loved him. Loved that he was the, uh primary antagonist. Because, basically, he’s leading this army of monsters, and, and, the aliens come in and freeze the cops, and, you know, we just, we keep kind of cutting back and forth between people.
At one point, we check in with Aunt Lorraine, and she hears something at her door, and she opens the door, and There’s a, a poodle there with like a, something on it’s forehead, I couldn’t tell what it was, like a pink flower, just a pink, or something, and she goes to get water and she comes back and it’s floating and then it like turns into an evil, like, like it’s face like monsters out, oh, and I loved that, and I’m sure, I’m sure that poodle the video.
Of course it is. Everything is, is, is from the book, but, oh, it’s just, it’s so funny.
Todd: I
Craig: think Zach is the one that figures out that the way that they have, the only way that they can solve this is if R. L. Stein writes a book about capturing all the monsters at once. And then, and then they’ll all be captured or whatever.
And he’s, he’s like, start writing. And he’s like, no, I need my magic typewriter, which again is also from one of the books. It’s a typewriter that makes stories come to life or something. And for some reason, his magic typewriter is in one of the trophy cases at the school. So was he like an alumnus of
Todd: this university or something
Craig: of this
Todd: school or
Craig: something?
I have no idea. Cause you said they moved around and stuff. I miss that part too. I miss that. I don’t remember. Well, she’s talking maybe she was lying.
Todd: When she’s talking to, to the, to him, they’re opening up, right? She’s talking to Zach and Zach’s talking to her. Her name is, uh, Hannah, right? They’ve got their budding little love, cute little young love romance boo going, and she says to him something about how she knows how he feels about feeling alone sometimes because.
She has been moving around every couple years. I don’t know if that means that she’s been bouncing back and forth between him and his supposed mother in London, or if Okay. I thought it meant that the two of them had been moving around a lot.
Craig: So here’s the deal, like, there’s a whole Great scene with the werewolf that if you want to talk about it, we can, but it’s very soon after that it’s when they get to the school, it happens a couple of times, I think the first time they’re running through a graveyard, yeah,
Todd: cemetery, the,
Craig: the, the moonlight shines directly on her and she becomes.
Like ethereal and ghost like. And after seeing that happen a couple of times, he figures out that she’s a ghost or a monster or something. And eventually he confronts R. L. Stein about it. And R. L. Stein’s like, yeah, I wrote, cause he was lonely or something. He just wanted a daughter, but he says, she doesn’t know I wrote her.
To believe she was a real, alive girl. Right. So, maybe all of her memories are just a construct, because she is just a fiction, she’s a written character.
Todd: It could be, that’s true. So maybe he did grow up in that town, and everybody knows him as the author, which begs the question, why is he using some weird alias?
Mr. Shivers or whatever. I don’t know. I don’t, I guess we don’t need to look too deeply into it. But who cares? It is a big surprise when it’s like, Oh, the typewriter was at the school in the trophy case with his name on it. All right. Yeah, you’re right. There’s a deal with those, with the werewolf at the supermarket and Lorraine, Aunt Lorraine shows up.
Craig: I loved it. It’s great. The werewolf chases them all around the supermarket and it’s, It’s, it’s fun and, and again, not great at CGI, but it’s a super fun scene and, and Lorraine
Todd: takes one glance at R. L. Stine and seems to suddenly get so smitten and, and he likewise that it’s a, it’s like a Disney movie. Oh, oh my God, what’s your name?
I’m R. L. Stine. It’s really funny. I’m Lorraine.
Craig: Okay. And I think he starts to run away with the kids and, She says something like, do you want to exchange the numbers? And he says something like, yes, but this isn’t a great time. Something like, it’s really cute.
Todd: Yeah. So supermarket with werewolf, cemetery with zombies.
Craig: Exactly. That’s what I was just going to say. You said it’s a lot of set pieces, supermarket with the werewolf, cemetery, then they run through a cemetery and there are a bunch of zombies, all like thriller style. And it looks great, but it literally takes, it’s like 30 seconds. Like it’s a, they literally just run through the cemetery, the zombies chase them, and then they’re out the other side.
And right into the high school, where a formal dance is happening, high school dances in movies always look like so much fun. They’re not like that in real life, guys. I wish they were half as fun as they
Todd: looked in the movies,
Craig: that’s
Todd: for
Craig: sure.
Todd: With
Craig: all the drama. Yeah, it is not a bunch of gorgeous twenty something looking People in couture.
Their best clothes. Right. Like
Todd: super expensive decorations hanging up
Craig: everywhere. And amazing like DJ and like lights. It looks really fun. It’s really just a bunch of awkward sweaty teenagers in a cafeteria.
Todd: With some
Craig: paper streamers. And handmade signs. Oh boy. It’s pretty
Todd: pathetic. They have their own charms.
I actually miss high school dances a lot. I used to have a lot of fun at those, but not everybody did. It could be very awkward.
Craig: You’re welcome to come take my chaperoning dude. One, if you need to relive that experience. That’s a high school student. I miss them. I don’t think I’d want to be chaperoning one.
Anyway, okay, so then they end up at the high school. They take the stage. They, yeah, he does. I guess he kind of runs off on his own. For some reason, the teenagers all end up like in the dance. I guess their champ wants to like warn everybody. Like he gets on the mic and warns them all about something bad happening or, or something.
And they don’t believe him. But then some kid. Is standing up, looking out the window and he starts shouting, Oh my gosh, there’s something ripping something’s head off or I don’t know. And everybody thinks that he’s joking in response to their announcement, but then doesn’t, does the praying mantis bust in?
Is that what happens?
Todd: Yep. And now all hell breaks loose. In the meantime, Jack Black’s character, R. L. Stine, has his typewriter, and he needs to sneak away to write. And what better place for him to go is in the theater, where he opens the door, looks at the stage, and they’re set up for a production of The Shining.
Craig: I didn’t catch that. Did you catch that? I read about it, but I didn’t notice. No, it said The
Todd: Shining in big letters over the stage. Oh, gosh. Yeah, and he goes, oh my god. That was so funny. That was so funny. Oh my God. I just, that was my second favorite part of the whole movie. The first one was that line, I’m, I’m unarmed from the ventriloquist dummy.
The second thing was him sitting down at a typewriter on a stage production of The Shining.
Craig: Well, he, his animosity towards Stephen King. Like there, it, it, there are like two or three different jokes. Yeah. That that’s funny. That’s funny. Yeah. But also
Todd: that the shining is about, you know, a guy who’s trying to write a story.
A writer.
Craig: Right, right,
Todd: right. And I just, again, I love the conceit. I’m just going to go with it. We all know it’s crazy, but this guy can plunk out cause he’s like, it’s got to be a real goosebump story. You know, I can’t just like write three sentences and they say the end. It’s got to be a full story with a twist in it and that whole deal.
And within the course of five minutes, this guy has pumped out all, but maybe the last three sentences of his story.
Craig: Slappy shows up there and they have a confrontation, but Slappy has also, Gathered all of the monsters outside the high school, like on the football field. And that’s when they also open all the rest of the books.
So there’s literally like a horde of them in there. I would like to watch it again and just. Almost just pause that scene where they show the whole horde of them because it is like cabin in the woods there at the end when it’s just a whole sea of villains and but they’re all specific like a killer clown stands out but oh gosh there are just so so many and and they all attack the school I don’t remember what happens with Jack Black and Slappy in the theater.
Slappy
Todd: confronts Jack Black and leaps up onto his typewriter to interrupt his writing and then slams the lid of the typewriter down on his fingers, which apparently breaks all of his fingers, and that’s gonna prevent him from being able to continue his story. I think the kids burst in, somehow the dummy disappears, and they run away.
With the typewriter, but Jack Black’s like, you know, eventually like, You’ve gotta finish the story or I’m gonna dictate it to you, and that’s kinda how it goes. But you can’t forget the moment where Champ gets his girl too. In the hallway.
Craig: Oh, yeah. He saves her from the werewolf, right? Oh, God, that was so cute.
Todd: This girl who we only saw in the very beginning.
Clip: And
Todd: here
Clip: she’s getting attacked
Todd: by the werewolf. The werewolf has her cornered. And Champ, in this big bout of uncharacteristic courage, leaps up onto his back. And I’m thinking, how in the world is this guy gonna fight off this werewolf, you know? And he bites into the werewolf’s neck, and the werewolf completely freaks out, becomes very incapacitated, and sort of scurries off.
And like, what was that? And she pulls him aside and he’s like, opens his mouth and he goes, Silver fillings.
Craig: Yeah. He’s got, he’s got like at least one whole silver tooth. He’s like, yeah, when I was a kid, I didn’t brush my teeth for a whole year.
Oh boy. That was really funny. And then they
Todd: kiss because she is so overtaken by him suddenly in his act of bravery that she’s ready to mound him right there in the hallway. So. Oh gosh,
Craig: yeah that was sweet, and he’s such, he’s funny, that kid, that actor is really really funny. He really is. And so, endearing.
So charming, I, I, yeah, I was so happy to see him get his kiss, that was sweet. But then, okay, so they have to, they, the monsters are all converging, so they have to figure out a way to get out of there. Like, Jack Black is, like, Slappy just wants me, I’ll go out there, and you guys, the rest of you can get away.
And Zack’s like, no, no, I have a plan. Ten, you, you explain the plan, cause I, it’s a little fuzzy to me.
Todd: I’m not sure, I’m not sure if I looked away from the screen at this moment. I feel like I must have, because the next thing I know, they’re driving away in a school bus. Jack Black is going some other direction.
And then, the monsters have attacked another school bus and got down on its side.
Craig: It’s a mislead. It’s an intentional mislead because, like, it looks like Jack Black is driving. A bus away, and I guess he is, but, but the bus that the, the first bus that the monsters think is Jack Black, they attack it, and it’s empty, there’s not even a driver, right?
I don’t think there’s a driver, like, but it drives a long way.
Todd: It drives a long way, it doesn’t have a driver, they leap onto it, and when it’s, it’s kind of on its side, and so when I think it’s the werewolf opens the door in it, they can peer inside and see. I What is in there is some kind of weird Rube Goldberg type contraption that apparently these kids were able to rig up in two minutes.
In seconds. Yeah. A
Craig: bomb.
Todd: Yeah,
Craig: that explodes. It’s a huge bomb, like, it’s a huge explosion that like blows up. Tons of the monsters, again, they just regenerate, so it doesn’t really matter. But, it, it was a decoy, it was a decoy bus, and the rest of them really are on a bus.
Todd: But also, like you had said earlier, in the way the monsters assemble, I like the way that they de assemble that way as well.
Like, when it blows them up, they all kind of explode into ink, which then just, you know, is on the ground. And then, of course, that ink just reassembles itself back into the monsters. But it’s so cool, like, it’s, it ties really well into the theme. theme of the words coming to life from the page, but also makes this movie extremely non violent for kids, right?
There’s no blood, no bits of monster going anywhere even. It’s a neat conceit and it works.
Craig: It almost, it, yeah, it kind of reinforces, subtly reinforces that they’re just make believe. Yeah, yeah. This is just pretend, this is just imagination, nobody’s getting hurt. It’s fine. True. And
Todd: also that they’re immortal, you know, like the words on the page in our imaginations, they’re immortal, you know, you can’t kill these things.
It also adds this element of what in the world are they going to do to it that I really liked, you know. You see the big bomb go off, and I thought for a minute, Oh, now they only have Slappy to deal with. Because Slappy wasn’t there. Right. But, nope, they all reassemble, and I was like, Oh shit, no, there’s still a full on horde coming at them, so.
Craig: Yeah, so they go back to the carnival for the big final showdown, I guess.
Todd: They run into the funhouse first, and they’re all inside the funhouse, and Jack Black is dictating the rest of the story to Zack, and he’s typing furiously away. But then Slappy immediately appears in the funhouse, and all these different mirrors, and at one point there’s kind of a superimposition where, you know, the way the reflection in the mirror works, it looks like half of R.
L. Stine and half of, Slappy go together in the same person. I
Craig: found that hilarious. I like they’re treating it like a psychological thriller in this moment. And I, the way that it’s shot, that’s what it looks like. And I don’t remember any of the lines, but I just remember it’s Jack Black talking to himself.
Yes. And honestly, like I actually like that component of it too. Like. He really is talking to himself, you know, this is his creation, you
Todd: know. It’s a little heady for the kids, but it’s kind of a nice little throw in there to make it more interesting for the adults, I think, you know.
Craig: But it’s, it’s kind of like slappy and I like that part that you mentioned where they do kind of, it’s not split screen, it’s, it’s meant to be like, you know, part of the illusion of the mirrors in the, the fun house, but their, their faces are.
You know, one half is Jack Black, one half is Slappy, and well, it was cool. I liked it.
Todd: He makes some comments earlier, and I don’t remember the context and exactly when he said them or why he said them, but he does make some allusions to the fact that Slappy was his most, um, um, Like, the character he related to the most, or the one that he thought was the most like him, or There’s something along those lines that is said more than once earlier in the story.
Like, this is gonna be his nemesis, because this is sort of like the dark side of him, or the character in his book that is able to say the things he can’t as a person, you know, I don’t know, but Mm hmm. But yeah, it was a nice image. A lot of this kind of detail put into a movie that didn’t require it.
That’s nice.
Craig: Yeah. Oh, gosh, yeah, I think that’s great. The writing is excellent fan service.
Todd: Mm-Hmm. .
Craig: And I think that’s fantastic. But yeah, I said they had to get to higher ground. Now I remember the reason because Slappy opens the blob book. Mm-Hmm. . And so the blob, you know, fills the whole fun house and starts coming out of the fun house.
And so the kids say they had to get to higher ground, so they climb the Ferris wheel, but because Jack Black tells them go and he tells Zach to finish the book. He’s like, I don’t remember. Yeah. And he’s like, just finish it.
And, and he runs off to what, I don’t know, confront slappy, I guess. He
Todd: just, he just stands out. I was a little puzzled by this, but he just literally stands outside and lets the blob overtake him. And he kind of pops his head out of it. So he’s not like dying in there, but. He just succumbed to it, and I’m not sure if that was supposedly a distraction?
Or what that why he did that.
Craig: I know, I just have yeah, in my notes, I just have the blob eats stein. Eheh, and then it carries on. The kids climb up the ferris wheel, the monsters all converge, he finishes the book. And locks it. It instantly binds it by the way. Yeah. Oh, that was hilarious. Like it just like, he just like stuck it in binding and it was done.
Like, look, Oh my gosh, it was funny. But then the mantis sends the Ferris wheel rolling, which is fun, but they would have been dead. That would all have
Todd: died a hundred times over in this rolling Ferris wheel. I
Craig: feel like they keep showing the kids as it’s rolling and rolling, like it rolls Far they conveniently never show close ups when the kids would be at the bottom right because they couldn’t because they would be dead Of course But they I guess when they land they’re gonna you know The monsters are coming and they’re gonna open the book and Zach is hesitant and Hannah’s like it’s okay I know so it turns out she really knows that she’s just a story and And she tells him to open the book, but he won’t.
So she does, and the monsters all get sucked in and he grabs hold of her. And he, and I love this. I love, you know, a big, all the bad guys get sucked into it. The portal vortex at the end of the movie. I love it. Uh, I love it. And he’s trying, he’s gosh, this is so monster squad. I didn’t even think about it until now.
Like he’s holding onto her just like Phoebe holds on to. Frankenstein at the end, and she’s starting to get sucked in and Slappy gets sucked in and he says, Slappy’s not happy. See you in your dreams. Oh my gosh. That was great. And then Hannah, oh gosh, sorry. I, I’m just excited. It’s so funny. Go on. Hannah tells Zach that she’ll always be in his imagination, and she kisses him, and then she gets sucked in, and then everything is just back to normal, like, I have no idea how much time is supposed to have passed, like, it almost seems like it’s the next
Todd: day.
Right. That’s how it’s almost presented, really. They’re all back in school and R. L. Stein is the new English teacher. Okay. And he walks down the hall and he passes by a guy who walks by and he goes,
Craig: Oh, hey. Oh, wait, real quick. While he’s in class, he’s the new, he’s the new English teacher. And he had, I thought he had such, I love the line.
He said, every story has three components. The beginning, the middle. And the twist.
Not what I was expecting. I loved that line. Yeah. No, not me either. I loved that line. I thought that was such a clever, fun line. I liked Jack Black’s delivery of that particular line. It was good. But yeah, go ahead about Mr. Black, Mr. Black, the, uh,
Todd: drama teacher. Oh yeah. He just walks by the drama teacher says, Oh, Hey, Mr.
Black. And Mr. Black looks up as he’s walking by and goes, Oh, Hey, uh, Mr. Stein. And it turns out that’s R. L. Stein’s cameo. So Jack Black is calling R. L. Stein, R. L. Stein, Mr. Black, and R. L. Stein is calling Jack Black, Mr. Stein. It’s kind of funny.
Craig: It is funny. I was looking away from the screen when I heard that line.
Oh, really? Yeah, and I, I, but I heard it and I turned back to the screen and they had already gone on with the scene, Zach and Jack Black talking together. And I said, I bet you money. That was R. L. Stine that he said, Hey, Mr. Black 2. So I rewound it and I saw the guy and like, I don’t know what R. L. Stine looks like, but I saw him walk by and I’m like, that’s him.
Like that, that is such the, the, the cameo at the end of the real guy. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Right. Okay. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And so they talk about Hannah. And Jack Black says, she’ll always be in your mind and in your heart, but also over there.
And he points back and she’s standing there and Jack Black as R. L. Stine says, yeah, I wrote her back. Todd, I almost cried. Are you serious? Yes, yes, I almost cried. I thought it was serious. So sweet. It
Todd: was sweet. He holds up his book and then he, then he lights the book on fire. So I guess it can’t, she can’t get sucked back into it anymore.
And then immediately drops it into a garbage can and closes the lid on it. And I, my first thought was. That’s going to put out the fire, bro. You need to, you need to let that burn a little longer, but yeah, she’s back and, uh, her and, uh, Zach embrace. And that’s the end.
Craig: Well, and then, but then Stein is just walking his new, his magic typewriter is back in the showcase and he’s walking by it and we see and hear the, a click of the typewriter and he stops and he starts looking at it and it starts.
I don’t remember if it starts to type or.
Todd: Yeah, it’s typing.
Craig: It’s typing. It says the Invisible Boy’s Revenge, and then he’s like, yeah, you forgot about me or something, and the Invisible Boy, I guess, attacks him, and then that’s the end, and the credits roll, and it rolls over. Artwork by the guy who did all the cover artwork.
I mean, it’s it’s the R. L. Stine imagery, but mm hmm
Todd: So how much sense does that make though? I mean wouldn’t the invisible boy have gotten sucked in with all the other monsters like what one would think I don’t know Was there some loophole in the the end of the story that Zack wrote that excluded the invisible boy?
Craig: I don’t think we should overthink it. I think it was just, it was just a stinger. It’s just a stinger.
Todd: Fair enough. I just thought maybe, maybe they accounted for it somewhere and I missed it.
Craig: That moment where I almost cried almost didn’t happen because they filmed. That she didn’t come back But he just happened to meet a girl that looked strikingly like her But test audiences didn’t like it.
So they Reshot it with her actually coming back and I like it that way. It’s sweet. It’s good for kids cute. It is good for kids I I liked this movie. It really did. Like I really enjoyed it and I’m glad because I couldn’t find it streaming free anywhere, so I bought it. So I’m glad if I hadn’t liked it, I would have been really pissed off that I paid 8 for it.
Todd: Well, I mean, everybody else seemed to like it too. It got very, very favorable reviews from audiences. It seemed like the critics all said, yeah, this is really nothing groundbreaking, but it’s super cute and it’s good for kids. And, and it’s, it’s a nice little nod to R. L. Stein and all of his work. And it did really well as far as money goes.
And all around the world. Enough to spawn a sequel, Goosebumps 2 Haunted Halloween. Which will probably do another Halloween season, I’m sure. Maybe. I don’t know. That movie apparently only has a brief cameo with Jack Black’s character in it. So, I guess R. L. Stine didn’t end up becoming a central figure in the sequel.
The sequel. So yeah, I think he shows up at the end. That’ll be a little disappointing, honestly. But anyway. Yeah, no, I enjoyed it too. I, for the same reasons you did. It was just a nice, fun, cute little movie. Nice little popcorn kids movie, something the whole family could sit down and watch. And like I said earlier, perfect to kick off your Halloween, I think.
Craig: Yeah, me too. And I’m glad, I’m glad you picked it because I wouldn’t have, because it, like we said at the very beginning, it’s not specifically said at Halloween, but it may as well be, it feels. So much like a Halloween movie. I mean, it’s definitely definitely a fun one for this time of year to get you in the mood.
Yeah, for sure.
Todd: Well, thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend. Find us online. Two Guys in a Chainsaw podcast is all you need to Google to get to our website. Find our Patreon at patreon. com slash chainsaw podcast. And of course our website, chainsawhorror.
com. Leave us a comment there. Let us know what you thought and let us know what you’re planning to do for Halloween. It’ll be a lot of fun. That’s something we’ll certainly be talking about behind the scenes with the patrons. So if you want to get in on some of that conversation, consider becoming a patron over at patreon.
com slash Chainsaw Podcast. All right. Happy kickoff to the Halloween season, everyone. Until next time, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig. With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.
We lost a legend, folks: A young and strapping James Earl Jones stars in this loony folk-horror movie that hilariously fails to hit on almost every mark. So bad it’s good? You’d better believe it. And he’s not the only Oscar-winner in this. You’ll also be treated to performances by José Ferrer and Lila Kedrova, a young Martin Kove, former Miss USA Deborah Shelton, and some of the most gorgeous views of the Greek Isles you’ll see on film.
We can’t say enough good things about the iconic American treasure that is James Earl Jones, but we do our best to give an overview on his life as we marvel at his range and willingness to commit to a variety of projects.
Bloodtide (1982)
Episode 408, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast
Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.
Craig: And I’m Craig.
Todd: Well, we come once again to a tribute episode for this year that we really needed to sneak in just because this actor has been Such a part of our history as, as people.
Craig: Yeah, this one, you know, sometimes every once in a while, we’ll, we’ll do one of these tribute episodes for somebody that may not be a huge star, but for whatever reason, you know, is near and dear to us for whatever reason, this guy.
is a legend and and I really think that his legacy will be sustained for a really really long time like he’s just so iconic and his voice if nothing else his voice I don’t think is going anywhere I mean people are going to recognize this voice
Todd: It’s almost like Orson Welles, right? In case you haven’t figured it out yet, we are talking about, uh, the legendary James Earl Jones, who passed away, I would say ripe old age, he, he lived to be 93.
93? Yeah. That’s pretty good, yeah, that’s pretty good. I mean, I hope I live to be 93.
Craig: I know, I read some clickbait headline that was like, the James Earl Jones tragedy, the, his unexpected death, something, something. It’s like, unexpected? Like, he’s 93.
Todd: You
Craig: lived to 93. If you’re not expecting it at 93.
Todd: I’d be looking over my shoulder every
Craig: day if I was 93.
I know, right? Here we go. You tell me about James Earl Jones. Here’s what I know about him. He’s a damn fine actor. He’s been in a lot of things that were big touchstones for us growing up. For us in particular, I think it’s Star Wars, of course.
Todd: Oh, yes.
Craig: Darth Vader is one of the most well known and and popular characters in pop culture around the world period the end
Todd: Yeah,
Craig: and james earle jones did the voice acting for that and and we associate him with that and it’s it’s huge I mean he he was he was still doing it up until a few years ago
Todd: Yeah
Craig: that and then of course mufasa and the lion king again one of the biggest movies of all time and and he’s uh Well known for that among many, many, many other things.
He did, you know, he did film, he did television. I assume he did stage. Oh yeah. Was he an EGOT? Yes, he was. So yeah, he did everything. He did it all huge, huge, huge star. And from everything that I ever saw him in, in terms of interviews, he seemed very humble and very down to earth. He was willing to make fun of himself.
He did a hilarious episode of. Will and Grace, where he played one of Jack’s acting students, and of course, Jack is a terrible actor, and here he is giving James Earl Jones acting lessons, and they performed together, I think, a scene out of Sex and the City. Oh God. Jack, Jack, they like, He, Jack had to teach James Earl Jones to like, go up higher in his register and say like, Jimmy Choos!
When I heard that he passed away, I was sad, of course, but you know, to see that he lived to be 93, he had just in the last, I don’t know, I have no concept of time, but it’s been within like the last five years that the live action. Lion King came out from Disney and I’m pretty sure that he was the only performer that they asked to reprise his role.
And he did. Look
James Earl Jones: Simba, everything the light touches is our kingdom. A king’s time as ruler rises and falls like the sun. One day Simba, the sun will set on my time here and will rise with you as the new king.
Craig: His voice is one of those like, if he’s still available, who else do you get to do it? You don’t get more iconic than James Earl Jones.
So it’s, it’s sad that he’s gone, but damn, what an amazing, amazing career.
Todd: You’re absolutely right. And you know, you mentioned Humble. He famously didn’t get to do it. on screen credit for the first two Star Wars movies. He refused. He did not. He said, I didn’t play that big of a role in the film. So I don’t deserve a credit.
He finally acquiesced by the third movie. That’s just a testament to how, uh, you know, compared to Orson Wells, for example, who was notoriously, uh, cocky and arrogant. This guy had to know what an icon he was and remained humble. And. I think one of the cool things about him is that he was willing to do almost anything.
I mean, a guy of this stature doesn’t need to be in low budget movies, doesn’t need to make little appearances here and there. And yet, even throughout his career, all the way back to the early days, you know, he would be performing in Movies like we’re going to review today, you know, alongside big important films.
And that’s also, I think, a Testament to his, his humility, you know, nothing, not no project seemed beneath him as long as it interested him. And I think a lot of that comes from his. Childhood and his upbringing because he stumbled into acting kind of by accident as a high school student now as a voice actor and an Aspiring voice actor for much longer than that many years ago.
I read I think I was the height I think I might have been in high school myself It was either a biography or a mini biography an article about James Earl Jones interestingly enough He had a terrible stutter, huh? In fact, he was mute He had such trouble with his stutter that he did not speak. And he said that his muteness started, uh, the first day of his first grade of school, and continued until he started high school.
Wow. He just didn’t talk because he was so embarrassed by his stutter, and got made fun of, and just couldn’t talk. How ironic is that, you know? To the day he died, he said, He still had to think very carefully about everything he was going to say before he said it, in order to overcome that stutter. And the first thing that got him going down that road was his high school English teacher, who noticed that he really liked to write poetry, and used this as a way to encourage him to speak in front of the class.
And then he decided he could take acting lessons in order to help him. Overcome the stutter as well. So, uh, that is really how we got into acting was as a very practical way of overcoming this debilitating, this debilitating hindrance that really, really kept him quiet and closeted, you know, as a child.
And then he goes on to have this deep baritone voice.
All of these roles that we know him for. It’s pretty interesting.
Craig: I feel like anything that needed voiceover narration. For the past 30 years, they’re like, can we get James Earl Jones? No. All right. Helen Mirren. Call her. It’s fine.
Todd: It’s true. George Lucas actually picked Orson Welles initially for the voice of Darth Vader, but at the end of the day, thought that his voice was just a little too recognizable. To do it, so. Oh, man. He was actually a pre med major in college, and he was even in the army during the Korean War. And this was all before he started pursuing an actual career in acting, but while he was waiting for his orders, he was already taking acting classes and acting on stage, and he was working, I think, as a janitor for that theater in order to pay for the classes.
His father was an actor.
Craig: Yeah, his father was in sleepaway camp. You Yeah, he was a cook. He
Todd: was the cook who got the boiling water on
Craig: him. I don’t remember if he was the one that got the boiling water, maybe he was, but he was definitely a cook in Sleepaway Camp. Oh
Todd: my gosh, you’re absolutely right. Well, his father like left the family when he was very young and apparently they were estranged for quite a while, but then they did end up acting together at least in one or two plays.
So they supposedly made amends. I don’t think there’s a lot really known about that whole relationship, but yeah, I He started working on stage, just kind of like you suspected, and uh, from there moved on to movies. His film debut was in Dr. Strangelove.
Craig: Did
Todd: he study?
Craig: Does it say anything
Todd: about Yeah, he studied acting.
Yeah.
Craig: He seems like somebody who’s studied. You
Todd: can tell. He has a very theatrical presentation in everything he does. He does. For better or for worse, really, because I’m sure. There are some roles Obviously film requires a different style of acting, and sometimes he works In a movie and sometimes he Doesn’t I think based on that
Craig: I can’t think of anything that I haven’t enjoyed a minute Actually, i’m just sitting here and trying to think of the things that he’s done and I remembered coming to america He was so funny coming to america.
Oh, that was great. Yes, like he’s he can be he seems like a very Serious actor and he is and he can be but he can be really funny too.
Todd: Oh, yeah
Craig: Gosh, I just love people like that. He just seemed like an all around really gifted guy
Todd: We’ve talked about him before on this podcast at least once when we reviewed The exorcist part two and that’s probably the movie We I would imagine we would have jumped to if we hadn’t already done it as a probably
Craig: I don’t remember him in that at all.
Todd: Oh, he was the, he comes in kind of midway towards the end when they go to Africa and go to that tribe, and he’s a researcher.
Craig: A researcher? Did he have like lots of bugs or something?
Todd: Yeah,
Craig: yeah,
Todd: that’s the one about the locusts and things. Yeah. Yeah, okay, alright. That movie, I think, came out around the same time that he, oh, that Star Wars came out, the same year.
Craig: What year did Star Wars come out?
Todd: It’s 1977, yeah, 77.
Craig: It’s too bad that he had to continue doing, apparently, movies like this one.
Todd: Oh my god, you sent me three that you had looked up, and when I, I looked at all three and I have to say this one kind of jumped out to me as the one that probably he’s in the most. Yeah. And that’s what we usually strive for, you know, for better or for worse. We’ve done tribute episodes where a character came in for a scene and then left.
I think Christine was that with, um, Kelly Preston. But, no, he is 100 percent in this movie. He’s one of the two main characters, I would say, in this one. And so, I was like, let’s do that one. And then, when I saw that, Cobra Kai man himself, Martin Kove. Yep, yep, the star. I’m like, dude, we gotta do this. So, uh, even though I had never heard of it before, we did 1981’s Blood Tide.
Have you heard of this before?
Craig: I don’t think so. I mean, the title is kind of generic, so I may have heard of it, but I’ve certainly never seen it, didn’t know anything about it. I’m not surprised.
Todd: Yeah, I know. I’m not surprised at all that this has languished in obscurity. Although, I was surprised at the sheer star power for its time anyway in this movie.
I just couldn’t believe. You’ve got Martin Kove. You’ve got James Earl Jones. We have a former Miss USA in here.
Craig: Which one was she? The dumb one or the less dumb one?
Todd: Oh, I’m not sure which one you’re talking about. She’s the spacey one. She’s the spacey one who’s kind of the object of everything.
Craig: Okay.
Todd: Restoring patience.
Craig: Not, not Martin Kove’s wife. They’re married. Aren’t they? They’re on their honeymoon, right?
Todd: Yeah, yeah, they’re on their honeymoon. Martin Kove’s wife was Mary Louise Weller. Mary Louise Weller, well, we’ve seen her in The Evil. Remember? We saw that one recently. The one about the haunted house, it was really cheesy.
Electrical wires, electrocuted people. Oh, yeah. Uh huh. She was the main character in that one. The
Craig: psychic one?
Todd: Yeah.
Craig: Nobody cares.
Todd: Including us. Her biggest role was in Animal House. She was Mandy in Animal House. She was
Craig: Both of the women in this were in Animal House, I think.
Todd: Yeah, most of them were.
Craig: So, there’s her, and then there’s Babs.
Her name’s Barbara. Do they call her Babs, or did I just call her that? I don’t remember.
Todd: No, they say that she, uh, I’m Barbara, but you can call me Babs. That’s what everyone calls me. And then I don’t think they ever call her Babs again.
Craig: Yeah, I know, right? Was she the Miss USA? No, she wasn’t.
Todd: Madeline. Yeah, Madeline.
Deborah Shelton. Yeah, she was Miss USA in 1970. Well, she’s
Craig: very beautiful, but they’re all pretty.
Todd: After Miss USA, she started getting into acting, and I think she did a lot of television. She’s got that face. She’s got that 80s television face, totally. She starred in Brian De Palma’s Body Double in 1984.
Brian De Palma didn’t like her voice, the way she talked in that one, so actually she was dubbed by another actress. Helen Shaver. So, uh, you can see her in there, but you’re not going to hear her in there.
Craig: Well, she barely talks in this movie. She doesn’t really have much to do except like stare. She’s weird.
I’m just, I’m just gonna, I’m just gonna let the cat out of the bag. This movie sucks.
Todd: Oh, this movie is so bad.
Craig: I did not enjoy it. It’s laughable and like, like laughably bad, but not in a like, Oh, isn’t this fun? No, I didn’t think it was fun at all.
Todd: I just thought it was terrible. I don’t know. Maybe if you had someone sitting next to you while you watched it who, where you could laugh at how bad it was, you would’ve had more fun.
Craig: Maybe? I do. I wasn’t surprised, and in fact, I actually appreciated the movie more when I read, I think one of the actresses in, I think it was one of the actresses, and an interview said something like. The only purpose of the movie was to move money around.
Todd: Yeah. Currency transfers.
Craig: You’ve talked about this stuff before.
Is this like, I don’t know, is this like tax shelters or is this, I don’t understand what’s, I mean, I get it in general, nobody cares about the movie. It’s just a means to an end financially.
Todd: She was talking about different currencies, right? Like currency transfers and stuff. Cause there was like, this was filmed in Greece and there was something else, you know, obviously like, um, American production and.
Greek production, some American actors, something like that. I don’t, I don’t know. I’m not clear on that. But, uh,
Craig: she just said she was surprised that they were able to cut it together into a finished product at all. So it sounded to me like they were maybe just shooting stuff because they needed to like they did.
Well, I got the impression that they didn’t really care about the movie and that’s what it seems like. I was kind of surprised that they can cut it all together too, because it’s wild. I’m sorry. I’ll let you, I’ll let you talk about it, but it’s just a re it’s a really bad version of the wicker man.
Todd: Yeah.
It’s trying to be a folk hero movie, but it’s also trying to be a couple other movies, and it gets really, it’s very tonally off from time to time. You know, at one point it’s getting kind of mysterious and almost artsy in cutting together all these different disparate shots and closeups on things and giving us cuts to people who we haven’t met yet and won’t meet for a while doing weird things, but then It gets like 80s horror when we get a girl sitting on the beach with a boombox who starts exercising And then takes her top off and dives into the into the water It’s like what why is this in this movie all of a sudden and yeah, so sometimes it’s funny Funny.
Sometimes it’s that, and sometimes it’s dead serious to the point where it’s overdramatic and melodramatic. It doesn’t have that same consistency of tone or emotional through line.
Craig: Yeah. Really nothing. And I mean, the plot is really thin and we’ve seen it a million times before. You said, you know, it seems like it’s trying to be a lot of different movies.
It is. What is that? Again, we’ve done it. I can’t remember the name of it. The fish people
Todd: movie. Oh yeah, um, Humanoids from the Deep?
Craig: Yeah, it’s that, kind of. It also has the feel of any of those movies where, you know, Americans go to a foreign village and, you know, everything seems shady and everyone seems shady and there’s some dark history.
Todd: Yeah.
Craig: We’ve seen it a million times. It’s just, this one is boring and it doesn’t make any sense. Like, I, it’s not like it doesn’t make sense. I get it’s basically kind of the same thing as Wicker Man, this Martin Cove and his wife are newly married and they’ve come to Greece. And this does look, they shot it on location and the location is stunning.
Todd: Oh yeah.
Craig: That’s the one thing that I’ll give. I mean, I, I read that it was miserable to film there, but it looks. Amazing.
Todd: The photography is really beautiful. And when I say that, I just mean literally, the photography is beautiful. It’s not that the shots are stylistic, you know, or unique or masterful.
They’re quite plain. But you just freeze the frame and look, and I, you know, it looks like your vacation photo is on some exotic beach somewhere. It’s just beautiful. It’s gorgeous.
Craig: Yeah, it looks like more rustic Mamma Mia. Like, it’s like, you know, the, the Greek Isles, you know, right on the shore, it’s, it’s really beautiful.
I, I guess it was so hot, like, I, I, like 120 degrees or something. I’ve never even experienced that kind of heat, I don’t think, but I can’t imagine working in it, but you could tell because they were all covered in sweat at all times.
Todd: That’s true. Martin Kove’s sweaty chest, and it felt like the movie was really a vehicle for Martin Kove’s chest.
I loved how in almost every scene he had his shirt off, even though it didn’t seem to make sense.
Craig: He was a beefcake. He had his shirt off, and his hairy chest, and then little shorty shorts just running around.
Todd: Yeah. He looks
Craig: good.
Todd: It
Craig: was difficult for me to accept him in a hero role, because he’s, in my head, he’s a villain.
Todd: Yeah.
Craig: He’s that bad guy from Karate Kid, so it’s difficult for me to reconcile him as anything else. But he does fine. He does fine in this movie. He doesn’t have a whole lot to do. Nobody has a whole lot to do.
Todd: I have to say, first off, like, that was part of the joy that kept my eyes glued to the screen. I just was fascinated by the idea of seeing this young Martin Kove, like you said, as a hero, with these two, three, gorgeous, absolutely way too gorgeous to have three men this gorgeous in one place, in one small town.
That’s how, you know, it’s Hollywood because this would not happen, but these three stunningly beautiful women on screen,
Craig: and I feel like the only other women in the movie are nuns.
Todd: Direct contrast, but one of those nuns is an Oscar winner. We have three Oscar winners in this movie. Really? We have James Earl Jones with Lila Kedrova.
She’s Russian. She won an Oscar for her role in. Zorba the Greek in 1964. She played Madam Hortense. I know I saw that a really long time ago, but I don’t remember. And then there is a mayor of this community. You know, it’s just like the Wicker Man. They show up, they land, they’re wandering around this town and the mayor pops out.
Craig: And they’re looking for someone. Neil, Martin Cove’s sister was here because she’s an art student or something. But. They, they haven’t heard from her in a really long time. But it’s the same thing, like, he was looking for a kid or whatever. This, this guy’s looking for his sister. And of course she’s kind of floating around ethereally staring at people from cliffs.
Todd: It’s so corny. It is so. Corny, and there’s also little children running be like popping out and running away and like barely visible as they flit around the corner But then there’s a cat
One of the kids throw like they just look up and a cat is coming down at them and I mean somebody threw a cat threw a cat, like, I can just imagine this cameraman laying on the ground, aimed the sky, and somebody way up high just chucks a cat over at him, because this cat is coming out like a flying squirrel, all four legs extended, falling straight to the camera.
Craig: I laughed so hard, I don’t even remember where that is, I know I took a note on it somewhere, but wouldn’t that have, who, they, the kids threw it at. Martin Kove and his wife when they first get there, is that right? Yeah, that’s Neil. Neil and Sherry, yeah. I think that I heard the cat, like, scream, like, a split second before I saw it.
And so I was like, oh, cats care. You know, that’s regular. But no, it’s like, these people just Shut this cat. Oh my God. It was hilarious. And it scares them and it made them jump. Oh God. It was really funny. That was probably the best part of the movie, I would say.
Todd: Oh, it’s one of the This movie, I think, is filled with little nuggets of gold.
I can’t wait to mine them. I was just gonna say, though, that the mayor pops out and brings them into his house, and like you said, this is when he explains, when they explain to him that, you know, have you seen this woman? Shows the picture, and of course he’s like, nope, nope, have never seen her before, never at all.
And the mayor is, uh, is played by a veteran actor, Jose Ferrer. And he’s the other guy who’s an Oscar winner. He What an Oscar for his leading role in the 1950, I believe, version of Cyrano de Bergerac.
Craig: Huh. Okay. I can, yeah.
Todd: Yeah. And God, this guy’s been in tons of movies. The Greatest Show on Earth, and Greatest Story Ever Told.
He was Herod. That was 1965. And, and lots of television, and movies and television all the way up until the, the day he died in 1992. So.
Craig: Wow. I recognized his name. I didn’t recognize him, but when you said Cyrano de Bergerac, I can see it. I can see. White and that and he’s the shady mayor because everybody’s shady.
Like when they first arrived, it seems deserted and people are like peeking around corners and stuff. And, and the mayor basically says. People don’t visit here often and you should leave. Get out. We’ll make you up a room and then you can leave first thing in the morning.
Todd: Yep. Oh boy. The dialogue in this movie is so bad.
It is so laugh out loud, funny, bad. Because then, coming into the room, there’s this crazy guy who’s just, uh, talking to himself and cackling the whole time and doesn’t speak a lick of English.
Craig: Yeah, he’s like Igor. Yeah. I don’t know why he’s there. We keep referencing all these other movies, but that’s because it’s, it’s so basic.
It’s cobbled together from other movies. Transylvania 6500, wasn’t there like a, uh, Murderous basement dweller basically that was just like this guy like an Igor character. I don’t know the point is Trope after trope after trope like just sewn together in a in a not Really creative way. Oh, no. I was not impressed
Todd: Yeah I love it that she just says like he calls the guy over to like fill their glasses or something and he calls him Dionysi and she pipes up Sherry.
Clip: Did you call him Dionysus?
Todd: Dionysus.
Clip: But it’s like Dionysus, the god of wine and theater. That’s really neat to have an innkeeper called Dionysus who sells wine. How greek.
Craig: Yeah, but see, we’ve done a lot of movies, and even some recently, where the dialogue is so bad it’s funny, but I feel like that’s almost more tongue in cheek.
This is played so straight. Like, there isn’t a wink, I don’t think, of intentional humor. They’re not trying
Todd: to be funny. I
Craig: don’t even think the cat scare was intentionally. I don’t think that was meant to be funny. I think that was really meant to scare you.
Todd: Yeah, you’re right.
Craig: And this, yeah, it sounds ridiculous, but no, she just played that just straight as a wire.
Todd: Almost all of the acting in this movie is quite bad, but I don’t necessarily fault the actors. The lines they’re reading are pretty ridiculous. They’re poorly written. The situations are kind of silly. Characters suddenly jump from one thing to another, which we’ll talk about in a minute. And, uh, I also probably fault the directing, you know, I just can see where, you know, scene by scene, these actors were directed to go a certain way and so then they played it up, but then it doesn’t cut well with the rest of the scene or the scenes that come before or follow, I just really got that sense of a movie that was.
It’s all cobbled together. Absolutely. Yeah, from a bunch of different shots and scenes that not a lot of thought was put into making them consistent and coherent, you know? That’s what I mean, like, no emotional through line.
Craig: It is all cobbled together, and it’s not as though throughout it I was confused, but I, nothing is happening, like, there’s just vague suggestions of things, like, Madeline, he finally finds Madeline.
Who at various times is like catatonic and then other times, okay. And like, she just, she just kind of wanders away to stare wistfully a lot or like hide behind things. And it’s, it’s super weird. So we’ve seen her a couple of times already staring and now she is with James Earl Jones. Here’s how bad the writing is.
James Earl Jones, pretty much. Only just quotes Othello through the whole thing, like, they, like, I guess they just couldn’t even really be bothered to write lines for him.
Todd: He does initially, and then he, he quotes Othello, unless he doesn’t, and then when he doesn’t, He doesn’t seem like the same guy. It’s weird.
So, the guy, Dionysus, you know, stumbles when he sees the photo of the girl. So, they know that they’re hiding something. But, you know how it is, they gotta stay in town and figure it out. So then they go out on a night exploration, this couple. And that’s when they find James Earl Jones. Right away. Extremely dramatic conversation with him.
Well, you’re right, he just quotes Othello, and he just seems like a total loon.
Craig: He seems like a lunatic, and he seems really menacing, and like he holds a knife to Neil’s throat. And I thought immediately, like, he must be a bad guy, but then I guess Madeline’s like, no, it’s cool. And Then they’re all just cool.
No,
Todd: not only, I mean, it’s this real dramatic scene where he’s like, he’s holding a knife to his throat and she talks him down. He’s like, okay. And he sits in the corner and he’s angry and he’s quoting Othello.
James Earl Jones: Rude am I in my speech, and little blessed with a soft phrase of peace.
Clip: Cut it out, Frye.
James Earl Jones: Okay. Okay.
You weren’t expected. And the natives here aren’t exactly friendly.
Todd: And she’s all spacey and weird and they’re exchanging weird glances and they’re kind of saying some cryptic things to each other. But she kind of seems to be a little pissed off at him for some reason and she starts to walk out of the room.
And then, who pops in but this Bubbly, blonde girl in skimpy clothes, and Hi, I’m Barbara, but you can call me Babs! And just sits down next to him, practically in his lap, and just like, So, what are you guys doing? Why are you here? I’m like, What? Where did this come from? The whole scene was so weird, it This scene is like a microcosm of the tone of the whole movie.
Like, the whole movie’s like this. Yeah. It’s so crazy.
Craig: I never got a handle on what was going on.
Todd: Between those three?
Craig: Well, just in general, like, what was he doing? We left out the very, very beginning of the movie. is set in like, I don’t know, ancient times. And there’s a voiceover, a really annoying voiceover that talks about the struggle between good and evil and they have to placate the power in the sea with a virgin sacrifice.
And it kind of shows this, like the marking a woman, like marking her head and like carrying her on a platform and delivering her to this, this, ancient looking archway or door underground. Now, when we come to our actual story, James Earl Jones is Like exploring these caves and apparently has been for a long time and knows what’s down there like he’s found The door because after they all talk they also just casually mentioned that scuba diving is forbidden for some reason I don’t remember why
Todd: I think it’s cuz um, they don’t want people bringing artifacts up from the floor
Craig: So is that what he’s doing?
Is he like is he in Indiana Jones? Is he trying to steal ancient artifacts?
Todd: It took me forever to sort this out and I think I did by the end of it. So what we see in that opening that you’re talking about is that they put a woman on a raft and they kind of carry her to the water and set it down in the water.
They mark her on the forehead with this distinctive mark that looks like a kind of an upside down, um, ribbon that you’d wear. Yeah, I was just gonna say that. We might as well be blunt. Yeah, breast cancer awareness, whatever. Yeah,
Craig: right.
Todd: But then they give her a coin. And so she has a coin in her hand or they put it in her mouth or something as they sent her into this cave.
So, I guess in ancient times you didn’t have to dive under the water to get to this cave. Like you do now. Anyway, they send her into this cave, and there’s this gate that looks like it’s out of the video game, Myst.
Craig: Yes.
Todd: You know, with that same symbol over the top of it, and something happens to her, you know, she kind of falls off the raft, there’s a howling or whatever, and there’s a big struggle in the water, and blood comes up, and so you, you get there’s a monster.
She’s, they sacrificed her to this monster. I
Craig: get that, but what is James, so James Earl Jones is just trying to get, uh, So yeah, stealing he’s
Todd: yeah, well what I guess over time those coins have accumulated down there And so it seems like he’s been going down there and gathering those coins So he doesn’t necessarily know all about the monster, but he’s weird because we see him down there And he’s got explosives with him.
He goes out in the middle of the night with Babs, right? And they go rowing and he puts on his scuba gears and he dives so that he can get into the cave. You have to dive to get into the cave. He services inside and lights up the lights that he’s put in there and gathers up the coins for some reason. He brings the bag of coins with him and is, has plastic explosives that he opens up.
And this whole time he’s just. Talking to himself, but in very very dramatic ways like quotes I just figured he knew what he was getting into and he chose today to blow open the seal on this this gate So back in the early times this gate was just a big opening and now it’s it’s been Deliberately bricked up and so he mounts his plastic explosives on there and blows it up The explosion is so big that it causes waves to rock boats and splash water in the windows Everybody in town wakes up and hears it You see all these clips of that.
When we come back to the cave, we see that he’s blown out four bricks, very neatly punched out of this, this opening and, uh, smoke ominously. Yeah, fog
Craig: pours out all over the surface of the water.
Todd: And then it’s morning,
Craig: like, I have in my notes Big Monster. I feel like we get a glimpse of something like this.
We do,
Todd: but I guess, but he doesn’t, right? Like, he just leaves. He doesn’t go inside.
Craig: Yeah, I don’t know. That’s why I didn’t understand what he was doing. I didn’t either. Because I don’t understand a lot of it, like, Like, right after that, Madeline dreams of being sacrificed with that symbol on her head. We see, like, a flash in her dream of, like, a painting of a demon with a boner.
Yeah. All right. And that comes back later, but I have such random notes. The next scene, Babs, Barbara, comes over to her boyfriend, James Earl Jones, Fry, and he says, I thought I told you to get me a melon and a loaf of bread. And she says, Ugh. And she runs off. And then she comes back and gives him a melon and a loaf of bread.
What? He sets it down. And then, and then he says, he says, I didn’t tell you to bring a knife.
Todd: He says nobody cuts a watermelon with a knife and then he
Craig: punches it open
Todd: and eats watermelon like no person ever ate watermelon ever By like what the fuck is happening? The pieces of watermelon is the biggest mess in his head and that he just like reaches his fingers in and I don’t know I don’t know how you eat watermelon that way But I guarantee you, Mr.
James Earl Jones, Everybody cuts watermelon with a knife, Because your way is really stupid. They’re on the beach, by the way. They’re hanging on the beach! They’re just all hanging on the beach!
Craig: They’re just chillin right. Madeline is just lounging on a rock, staring, As she is playing. Prone to do, and Sherry walks up in Lake tries and makes small talk with her, and it’s like,
Clip: hi, you know you don’t have any strap marks at all, right?
Meditating TM Zen. I try to meditate for a while, but I kept, you know, finding myself thinking about where my khaki pants were, whether they went to the laundry or the cleaners, something.
Craig: Here we got you a present. Like, you must have had a bunch of birthdays, so here’s a birthday present. And she hands her, she hands her a wrapped present, and Madeline opens it.
Like, I don’t understand. It’s like when she is in this state that she’s never been a person before, like she, she doesn’t know anything. So, she opens it up and it’s perfume, and she opens it and smells it, and Sherry’s saying, Yeah, we didn’t know what you’d like, so we just got the most expensive one. And as soon as she says that, Madeline takes the bottle of perfume and just starts pouring it all over herself, like all over her face.
Face and shoulders and Sherry’s like, uh, that was expensive. What is happening? I don’t understand what is happening. What she steps out into the
Todd: water and then starts like touching herself. She’s like, uh, rubbing her chest and like, almost like she’s in ecstasy. And then Sherry is like, well, that was weird.
Just walks away. Neil, your sister’s acting a little strange. I mean, why are they all, why are they all hanging out on the beach? This is what I don’t understand. Well,
Craig: I mean, I guess Neil and Sherry are on vacation. Everything’s
Todd: cool now, like the guy, they hold his knife up. Yes, they found her. The dude blew open the ancient tomb and may or may not have seen a glimpse of a monster, and now it’s just the next day and well, you know, we gotta hang.
They’re all,
Craig: yeah. Well then, and then they go, they, and then they go boating, and they hit something. Oh God. James Earl Jones jumps in the water and like, finds some, like, guck on the propeller or whatever. But then he comes up and he’s like, yeah, we hit something. And Martin Kove’s like, we couldn’t have hit something.
My depth finder says we’re at like, 300 feet. We have just seen under the water, and we’ve seen the ocean floor. You need to have your depth finder checked, because you are max like 15 feet.
Todd: Yeah, you were maybe, maybe 12 feet, and that’s generous. James Earl Jones could almost have stood up next to the boat, and it would have touched the top of his head.
I thought he was gonna come back and say, no, you’re wrong, but he didn’t. I think that was just a big mistake. Oh, so funny. Now see, I was so into the movie at this point, because I could not believe how bad it was. That I was just rolling at all this stuff. And I couldn’t wait to see where it was going and absolutely was not disappointed.
So I don’t know, I just, I mean, I agree with you. The movie is stupid as hell. It doesn’t make any sense. But, for me, firmly in the, so head scratchingly bad, it’s good. And that the fact that these people are in this movie, like, Amplified that ten times for me. I just, I couldn’t wait. That’s fair. I couldn’t wait to see what was gonna come out of their mouths next.
And how it was gonna come out. And in what context. Cause the context keeps changing. Like why are these guys all friends all of a sudden? I, I just didn’t get it. I don’t know. It just, it sapped all of that mystery that they were supposedly building for the previous twenty minutes or so.
Craig: And it, again, I’ve said it a million times and I’ll keep saying it until we, I guess, but what is going on with Madeline?
I don’t understand. I don’t like she’s there because She’s an artist and she’s like restoring a painting or something and she tells the nun why why are there nuns? What? They just popped in suddenly. Yeah, there’s just there’s just randomly a
Todd: Monastery a
Craig: nunnery.
Todd: Yeah,
Craig: but she’s like Restoring this painting and she tells the nun well the first layer was just all fireplace soot But they thought that the image disappearing was a miracle, but no it was just fireplace soot, so I took that off She’s like but then I realized there was another layer underneath it And it was something else and then I realized there was another layer underneath that and it was something else all this builds I’m jumping around but I This was the part of the movie that killed me the most.
Eventually, she gets to the bottom lair. But she does so by peeling the ancient plastic film off of the painting. As though discovering that there was another lair meant that she was peeing. Peeling another plastic layer off of it. It’s
Todd: very clearly plastic.
Craig: I don’t know how they thought they were gonna get away with it.
Oh my
Todd: god The clear plastic edges are sticking out a little spatula tool slips right between those little plastic bits And she peels
Craig: it off like it’s like a film like a plastic film to reveal below it the demon with a boner and a Chicks sitting right in front of him like yeah, so she’s gonna have to blow this team and I think
Todd: I Couldn’t wait I was obvious I couldn’t wait cuz we knew the movie was gonna go there because it’s very cavalier and weird about nudity like I said earlier Then we get the scene with Babs where she goes to the beach and she just hangs By herself, and she’s got a boombox, and she sets it down, and she’s in 80s clothes, a crop top, got a lot of underboob there.
And, uh, she just starts exercising. Like, doing Jane Fonda’s workout on the beach. Leg lifts and things. Yeah, that’s weird. And pretty soon she turns it off and decides she’s gonna peel her top off. And I was like, is this really this kind of movie? The first 20 minutes, I wouldn’t have imagined this was this kind of movie.
But now, I just think this movie can be whatever movie it wants to be. Cause she peels her top off, and dives into the water. While a few of the townies from the, you know, from the cliffs up above come out and just stare. And she turns around and says, Pervert! Dirty
Clip: old Thought you gratefully liked little boys!
Oh my god.
Craig: Uh huh. Yeah. That’s what I’m talking about. It’s terrible. It’s terrible. But she, she was one of my favorites. She was very pretty and she was bubbly and funny. Yes. I enjoyed her and I enjoyed her energy. She
Todd: didn’t even belong in this movie, but yeah.
Craig: No, she did not belong in this movie. Not at all. And then, you know, she takes her top off and then it’s Jaws for about a minute.
Yes. And I actually thought, I thought that looks great. The underwater photography. All of it. Looked really, really good. Loved it. And, and she was filmed, you know, from like Monster or Shark POV from quite a distance. Like the camera was pretty deep in the water and she was some distance away and it was very clear.
The water there must be amazing. But I loved the underwater stuff, but she basically gets attacked, I think, kind of. And you kind of see it, I don’t remember. And then they find a dead girl, but the first dead girl they find isn’t even her, I think? Oh, it’s
Todd: so weird. They come back to town. This is so convoluted and strange.
The rest of them are on a boat while she’s been doing her thing. Because they just hang out on boats now. And they come back into the dock, and the mayor is there with a bunch of his guys. And the mayor tells them that a girl who went swimming has not returned. It’s And they were like, you’re not implying that the thing we hit with our boat was that girl.
And he’s like, all I’m telling you is that no boats are going to leave this dock. So now they are stranded on the island until this mystery gets solved. And then, yeah, like you said, uh, it turns out that they find a body, and it’s The woman that went missing, that went swimming.
Craig: But then they also immediately find Babs.
Yeah. Chopped up in pieces. Yeah. I don’t, I don’t know, I don’t get it. The monster just
Todd: bit her a few times and then let her wash up on you.
Craig: Yeah, like, like chomped her feet off and spit them out. Ha, ha, ha,
Todd: ha, ha, ha, ha. The kids are all surrounding it, just staring at it until an adult comes by. Cause that’s what, that’s what kids do in movies like this.
And so then they do a funeral procession and they bury them and You know, as the procession goes through, there are these two wooden coffins, and they sit down, and the nuns are there saying their prayers, and whatever, and then the mayor comes stomping in with his guys, and he starts prying open a coffin, and that upsets the nuns, but they don’t intervene, and he insists on putting a coin in that woman’s mouth, and Some herbs or something over her.
And then he goes to do the same to the other coffin, which pisses off James Earl Jones character, who lunges at him, and he’s like, You keep your voodoo to your own people. But, he says this is important, you know, for Charon to, for her to have safe passage to the, the next world. This is What we do on the island.
We are like an hour into the movie now. It’s only an hour and a half. And I’m like, ugh. There’s no real mystery right now? Yeah, okay, there’s a monster. It’s been set loose. It killed these girls. And these islanders have their rituals, you know, which were from before, to protect them. So I’m just waiting for something to happen.
I mean, not that these girls getting attacked wasn’t something, but god, it’s an hour into the movie. And then what? Is it just gonna be more Jaws? Like, just people keep going out of the water, keep getting eaten? Like, James Earl Jones apparently doesn’t know about the monster. The only person who seems to know about the monster is Loony Madeline, who’s just staring off into space all the time.
Craig: I don’t get it! What is happening? Like, is Okay, so James Earl Jones just casually mentions at some point that she’s a virgin. How and why he would know that, I have no idea. She’s acting all weird. Are we supposed to think that she’s, like, drawn to this Monster or something? It, it, it doesn’t make any kind of sense.
Todd: The next thing that happens is that they’re back out on the boat again, and James Earl Jones decides to go diving while Neil and Sherry are hanging on the boat. And Neil’s saying, you know, I’m gonna go after him, and Sherry’s like, you know what they said about diving? Like, who the f cares? This guy’s been diving three or four times since we’ve joined them, right?
But he’s like, no, I’m gonna do it anyway. So he dives after James Earl Jones. I keep calling him that because we never really find out his name. He’s like Mr. It’s Fry. Fry? Yeah. So he goes in to the cave and they have a very bizarre confrontation.
Craig: What the hell? I did not James Earl Jones like holds a spear up to his Neck or something.
I have in my notes. Why is he mad? I thought they were friends. What is happening? He tells him he says Madeline brought him there And he tells Neil that he and Sherry should leave because something got to Madeline and I don’t have any ideas So they go to the convent to look for her and I have in my notes So, why does Martin Kove wear a string as a belt?
Both laugh. It bothered me. His belt is a shoestring.
Todd: It seemed very hot there. I wanted to know why suddenly he was wearing jeans but no t shirt. I thought maybe he should at least be in shorts or something.
Craig: My notes don’t even make sense. I say they look for Madeline at the convent, but a nun tells them they have to leave because Madeline has entered something?
And then they, they go outside and they’re calling her name and she’s hiding behind a rock, but she doesn’t answer. The camera
Todd: pans over dramatically and she’s like on the next mountaintop, almost like she’s curled up hiding, but also spaced out just laying there. And I, It’s so laugh out loud funny. And then they, it seems like they kind of stopped looking for her for a while, because now Madeline is no longer a concern.
We get some kids who are on some rocks by the waterside, who are playing their game. This is the same group of kids we’ve been seeing over and over again. And one of them draws that symbol on the girl’s forehead. I don’t know, how old are they? They’re like, ranged from Twelve, I don’t know. And they do some skipping.
In a circle around on those rocks, which already looks pretty dangerous. I think it’s the girl’s mother just pops in. It just happens to be a few rocks away all of a sudden and calls out to her. And it’s like, no, no, I don’t know. It’s not English, but she’s yelling out at them and she starts to make her way across the rocks to them.
And the girl who again, probably about 12. I
Craig: couldn’t figure that out. I think that she was going in the water. You think she jumped? No, I think the boys pushed her. I don’t know if she was in or not. Maybe she was. But I think the boys pushed her. intended her to go in the water. I think this, this was a sacrifice.
It’s the same symbol that they used the sacrifice
Todd: before. That’s what I was thinking.
Craig: Maybe they’re playacting it, I guess.
Todd: Yeah.
Craig: But I didn’t think it was an accident. I mean, why would the mom be freaking out?
Todd: Maybe. Well, I mean, you’d be, you’d be freaking out if your kid slipped. If your
Craig: kid was playing on a cliff, I guess.
Todd: But what freaked me out was the girl falls into the water and there’s an underwater shot of like, Her boobs. Oh, I didn’t notice that you didn’t notice that. I was like what why do we have child nudity in this movie? I mean, it was only about two seconds long which made it all the more unnecessary. It was just like her top was half off What I don’t need to see this 12 year old girl’s boobs and then she surfaces and her shirts back on and I thought Did they insert a shot here?
Maybe. Did they like I honestly
Craig: missed it.
Todd: Oh, we needed to put some more boobs in here somewhere, so we’re gonna choose the 12 year old? I don’t know, cause it was, it was shocking. I can’t believe you missed it, dude.
Craig: Well, I’m not upset that I Like, that’s fine. But somehow, James Earl Jones is there, and he jumps in and saves the girl.
From the underwater demon, that we get a full shot of at this point, this is, I think, there’s one point for like one second that you get a full shot of it. And it just looks like a guy in a creature from the Black Lagoon type suit. And it seems like Fry sees it, but he never says anything about it.
Todd: Well he does, because the mother leaps in as well, or falls in, I can’t remember which.
Craig: Yeah, it gets the mom.
Todd: It gets the mom, it chomps her. Actually, that’s You know, again, it’s like an underwater, kind of like a brief chomp on her. It’s got jaws, right? But at times it looks like a horse’s mouth, at other times it looks kind of more demonic with fangs, and I feel like it changed from time to time, but I don’t know.
Craig: You didn’t see much of it. I
Todd: thought Fry saw it get the mom. I was, I was positive of that.
Craig: I don’t know. I remember blood in the water. The mayor threatens James Earl Jones, and then James Earl Jones gets He’s about to tell them about the demon, I think, and then he passes out.
Todd: Well, this is at this happy festival.
Like, suddenly, after all this stuff went down, and all this ominous shit, Now it’s that stereotypical, Oh, look, the old folk village is having their happy festival. And I’m like, guys, somebody’s mother just died. This was literally the next day. And they’re just having this happy festival like nothing happened?
As opposed to that funeral that they had a while back when the last person died? Yeah, and he pops down and he says some really bad dialogue. You know, we should probably talk about James Earl Jones a little bit while we go through this.
Craig: Well, he’s fine. He just doesn’t have much to do. What’s, what was interesting to me is I don’t know that I had ever seen him in anything at this age.
And I always think of him as being a portly man, a big guy. And he is. He’s kind of barrel chested. He’s a big guy. But he’s younger and
Todd: Surprisingly fit in this movie.
Craig: Yeah, leaner. And I don’t think that I had ever noticed, and I don’t know, this may be colorization or something, but he’s got, in this movie, these beautiful blue eyes.
And it was just He’s one of those guys that ever since I remember him. He’s old. He’s always been an older guy. Yeah, so to see him Younger it was cool. It was cool to see him at a different stage of his life Yeah, it was
Todd: fun. And you’re right. I think his theatrical training comes through here again Maybe you know being an earlier film or something like that But it just feels a little too Presentational for the close ups that we get on him and the long shots of him in these conversations Transcribed And I could tell, too, not not just with him, but with all the actors, I could tell they were cutting around performances quite a bit.
Craig: Oh yeah.
Todd: There’s an awful lot of off screen delivered dialogue, you know, where two characters are talking and the camera’s always on the person who’s listening. But yeah, this he’s drunk, and he He doesn’t quite tell them what’s going on. By the way, these two are no longer interested in looking for their sister, apparently.
They just want to sit and enjoy the festival and have fun.
Craig: And it’s, the festival is just shady, and like, the, the boner demon, somebody dressed as the boner demon shows up, and like, that, the little girl that was thrown in as part of the, the ceremony, and, It’s all just very shady. It feels like the end of the Wicker Man, but I feel like we just need to get to the end because all of this is inconsequential.
Like, I didn’t get it. We cut back to the nuns. Are the nuns worshipping the demon? Are they scared of the demon? Does the demon attack them? Because then a bloody nun stumbles into town. Then they go to the convent and there’s a bunch of dead nuns and that black goo is all around. So I guess
Todd: That was so hilarious, by the way.
The nun massacre. I just
Craig: couldn’t get over
Todd: how silly it was. Like, they’re literally, like, one’s slumped over a chair, one seems to be stuck to the wall somehow, the other one’s laying on the floor.
Craig: And then, who says this? I have in my notes, in quotes, So, little virgin’s finally gonna give up herself. What?
Who says that? That sounds like something James Earl Jones would say.
Todd: Yeah, I think he said it.
Craig: And, okay, and so then Madeline somehow is on a boat, underwater, in the cave, with the symbol on her forehead, and then she lays on the rock slab, puts a coin in her mouth, and starts just f ing
herself just writhing in ecstasy
Todd: Oh, I thought the demon was there boning her but then later you just oh, I
Craig: I thought first No, I thought for sure she was getting eaten out for sure Only in her mind. Oh my God. It was insane. Oh God. And then Neil is like, shows up in some scuba gear looking for her and he gets to her and she screams like, I don’t know.
Todd: Suddenly it’s raining inside the cave.
Craig: Oh my God.
Todd: Dude. I could not contain myself. I was. On the floor at this point, I was having so much fun with this movie. So yeah, there’s a big battle kind of thing. And Frye, I guess it’s like, go, go, you must go. And he’s got a big wad of his plastic explosives. Yeah.
That he had put together to come in and they swim out. Neil saves his sister. They swim out and then he gets attacked by the demon. And did the demon chomp his crotch?
Craig: I don’t know. I just have the demon chomps Frye, but it looks so bad. Like. It looks like a cheap Halloween mask, um, in this shot, like you can almost see the plastic of the neck like flapping.
Todd: But just for a split second. Yeah,
Craig: just for, it’s very, very brief. You barely see the demon at all. And so then he blows up the cave and
Todd: And himself and himself
Craig: in it, right. Which And Neil and Sherry and Madeline leave, and Neil has that bag of coins, I guess, and he just jumps them in the ocean and then that’s it.
No, no,
Todd: no, no, no. That’s the end of it. No, no, no, no, no. Right after that. Right after that, before they take off, Neil and his sister embrace and have a moment on the boat where she leans in and kisses him a little too passionately for a brother.
Craig: I must have been looking at the clock. Because I don’t remember that.
Todd: Yeah, that was weird. I did a double take. And it almost seemed like Martin Cove also did a double take because there’s this weird look on his face when she goes by. And then it cuts to the next morning. When, like you said, they take off on a boat away from the island. He dumps the coins into the ocean, and everything’s fine, which takes a little bit of the fun and mystery out of an ancient demon when all anyone ever needed to do is get down there and blow it up.
I guess it’s not so supernatural. Oh,
Craig: yeah, I mean, I just, I, I couldn’t find anything really to enjoy. Honestly, James Earl Jones in it. I Felt like what why are you here? Yes You are too good to be in this movie, but I get it. That’s another thing that I respect about him. He was I said before he was humble.
He was also a working actor. Like he did commercials and he did document like he, the man worked. And so this is early in his career. I’m he’s
Todd: in a lot of stuff
Craig: and he has done a lot of stuff. He’s done voice for animation and video games and all kinds of stuff. And. So I, whether, you know, maybe this was just for a check and if it was just for a check, that’s great.
Or whether it was just for the opportunity, just for the opportunity to do what it appears that he really loved to do and was really good at.
Todd: It’s early in his career, too.
Craig: Yeah, either way, good for you. If you want to get nostalgic about James Earl Jones, watch one of his good movies. Don’t watch
Todd: this. I don’t know, man.
I would say, If you want to see a young, fit James Earl Jones, early in his career,
Craig: Yeah, it’s true. I don’t think
Todd: you’re gonna find a movie with so much of him in it. And he’s shirtless in a lot of it too. I mean, it’s Right. That’s true. And it’s in a beautiful location. It’s not an ugly movie to watch. I don’t know, man.
I’m I kind of had a very different feel of the movie than you did. I thought this was so bad it was good. Every bit of it As the longer it went on, the less sense it made, and the more silly it was. But I still loved watching these people kind of do their thing as ridiculous as their thing that they ended up doing was.
If they had been unknown actors, I might have felt differently. You know? But we’re talking Three Oscar winners Of former Miss USA Beautiful people in a beautiful location in a whack a doodle movie true. I think it’s worth the watch I think you should seek it out and the guy who Produced this and co wrote it.
His name is Nico Mastarakis. Have you ever heard that name? I don’t know. I don’t think so. This is like a blind spot in horror history for me But this is an independent producer who’s greek who’s done a lot of things You Like, I think he’s a bit of a self promoter, so, you know, take that for what it’s worth, but he has his name splashed over a lot of out there, independent films that I think are very cult and a lot of people like.
And I feel like we’re going to be returning back to this guy at some point. with one of his other movies, and I’m kind of surprised we haven’t hit them yet. He, back in 1974, watched Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and apparently was so taken by it and its popularity that he’s like, well, I’m just gonna make another movie that’s more violent and more disgusting so I can make a bunch of money.
And he shot a movie called Island of Death on another Greek island, and I guess it’s notorious. I don’t know about it, but the more I was reading about it, the more I thought, you know, We should probably put this in a rotation somewhere and visit a little bit more of this guy’s movies. Cause, for what they’re worth, you know, they’re kind of interesting.
The fact that you could get all these actors in this movie is kind of surprising and says something, I guess. But uh, man, I have notes about the song over the credit sequence, but I guess you probably just shut it off by then, huh? Or you weren’t paying attention? I
Craig: actually, well, I, no, I did turn it off, but I did hear the first part of it and I’m like, oh, that sounds like a good song.
And it, and it, it sounded kind of familiar, I thought maybe, but. No, I slammed the computer shut.
Todd: I, I listened to it and I was listening to the lyrics and I was like, Oh my god, it’s kind of like the movie. It’s, it’s like a pastiche of early 80s songs that you would expect to hear, but not necessarily in a movie like this, something a little more poppy, but then the words are so lame.
You know, they’re like something about the past, something about the future. And I want to sail with you to our next destination forever. It
Clip: sounded catchy, but at the same time,
Craig: it seemed tonally completely off. Like, Oh yeah. Yeah. Completely. I think you put this at the end of
Todd: the wrong movie. Yes! Exactly!
That’s why I loved it. And I found out information about it. It was written by Shuki Levy, who, if you don’t know who this guy is, he wrote thousands of theme songs for children’s cartoons. And scores for them. So we’re talking He Man, She Ra, the World Ghostbusters, Inspector Gadget, Power Rangers. He’s the guy behind the music in most of those.
Nice. Nice. And he was married, at the time, to Debra Shelton, who played Madeline.
Craig: Oh.
Todd: And she’s the one singing.
Craig: Oh! I didn’t know that either.
Todd: But James Earl Jones, man, what more can you say?
Craig: No, again, you know, we’ve done this so many times, I say the same thing every single time, but He’s gone, that’s sad, but Him, even more so than a lot of the people that we’ve talked about.
This guy is, his legacy is cemented. He, he, he’s a legend. He’s a John Wayne. He’s an Elvis Presley. He’s James Dean. People are going to know his name for a really, really, really long time. What more can you hope for really?
Todd: Never had a controversy, never had a bout with drugs and alcohol, never was difficult to work with or anything like that, just everybody spoke glowingly about him.
And, and, you know, that’s how he came across on the screen, too. Just, uh, an actor very serious about his craft, but also having fun with it, and, uh, just seemed like a genuinely nice person that the world’s gonna miss. Well, thank you for joining us again for another tribute episode here on Two Guys in a Chainsaw.
We have our Halloween October season coming up, and we have a lineup that we think you’re really gonna enjoy. Please stick around for that. If you have friends who are into horror or who endure Halloween, or should I give a little preview if you have kids and are looking for a horror movies for your kids, we’re going to be covered more than a couple of those.
So, uh, if you know anybody like this, send them word of our podcast. You can send them to ChainsawHorror. com or just have them type in Two guys and a chainsaw podcast so that they can subscribe to us on their favorite podcasting platform Because we’re really looking forward to, uh, to Halloween this year.
Also, uh, for our patrons behind the scenes, we’re going to have a few extra special minisodes for the Halloween season, as we usually do. If you’re interested in joining the crowd, go to patreon. com slash ChainsawPodcast and look to sign up. Five bucks a month gets you access to all those minisodes, our Christopher Pike book club, the mini reviews we do, conversation with us behind the scenes.
and also influence over which requests we will do on the show. Patreon. com slash Chainsaw Podcast. Until next time, I’m Todd. And
Craig: I’m Craig.
Todd: With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.
This week, we are delighted to be joined by another guest and devoted listener, Jules O’Brian, to discuss her choice of the 2022 Danish-Dutch psychological horror thriller, Speak No Evil.
Be warned, friends: The laughs may be bright and carefree, but the movie is about as dark as they come. We follow the harrowing journey of a sweet little family as they visit the home of another family they met while on vacation in Tuscany. This month, an American remake hits the theaters, and we’re dying to see if and how it shakes things up.
Jules is a comedian currently touring around the UK. You can find her current touring schedule on her website, or catch up with her shenanigans from the comfort of your own home on her monthly podcast, Avoid Excessive Cleavage. Thanks for joining us on the show, Jules! The pleasure was all ours.
Episode 407, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast
Todd: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd,
Craig: and I’m Craig.
Todd: And joining us today for the first time is loyal listener, Jules. Jules, say hi to the people out there.
Jules: Hello everybody. This is a dream come true.
Todd: We’re so happy to have you on, you know, you reached out to us and said that you were a fan of the podcast.
Now you’re based out of the UK, right?
Jules: That’s right. Yeah. I’m in, uh, I’m in Birmingham. So slap bang in the center of the UK and, uh, and yeah, I travel around all over the place. Cause my, my job is I work as a standup comedian. So yeah, I travel all over the country and I discovered you guys, Oh gosh, not very long ago, really probably only about.
I think probably about three months ago, and I think I’ve, I’ve listened to nearly, I’ve listened to more of the podcasts that you podcast episodes that you have recorded than I haven’t, if you know what I mean. So it’s kind of, it’s bordering on obsessive.
Todd: Oh, that’s So flattering, I have to say. I’m sure you have some very boring nights. They must be especially boring if you’re resorting to listening to us.
Jules: It’s fabulous. It’s great. Honestly, I’ll be driving down the motorway and, you know, it’ll be sort of a three hour drive or something, and I’ll be thinking, Oh, God, I just want to get home.
And I’ll be, you’ll be making me laugh as I’m driving. It’s brilliant. I absolutely love it. So thank you so much for that, for the entertainment. It’s been an absolute godsend finding you. Seriously, it’s Well,
Craig: you’re kind, I very much appreciate your kind words and I am like immediately charmed by your accent.
So, I’m blushing, I’m blushing. That’s a brilliant place
Jules: to start. I’m so pleased. Seriously, this is like a little party for me. I’m all set up. I’ve got a glass of wine. It’s fabulous. Oh, nice. I’m just having the best time ever.
Todd: It’s evening time for Craig and I’ve had probably six or seven beers, but that’s been over the course of like seven hours.
I, I I just got off a really long board gaming session with some friends, we’re really big nerds.
Craig: Oh my gosh, you and the board games. Yeah, this was I think, Todd, I think you may have a problem with board games. I may. It could be. It could
Todd: be. Well,
Jules: I love that you pick on Todd for the, for the, the board game situation, but I’ve just said I’ve got a glass of wine and that just gets to me.
Breezed over, that’s fine, that’s not a problem. Are
Todd: you kidding me? I would, I would bet 50 50 roll the dice that Craig has a mimosa in his hand right now, and it’s like early in the morning for him.
Craig: I don’t know what you’re talking about.
Todd: Yeah, that’s right. Moving on, moving on. Anyway,
Jules: well,
Todd: we were so flattered that you reached out to us and so interested to chat with you, and since you’re no stranger to speaking into a microphone for Hours on End, we thought it would be lovely, lovely to have you on the show, and, uh, do Movie that you chose and you chose a few and I think it was more Craig that was narrowing it down with you But he and I chatted and I think we ended up among the three of us settling on 2022’s speak no evil directed by Christian Toftrup.
I believe right. It’s a Danish movie And, uh, I’m gonna butcher all of these Dutch and Danish names 100%. I think one of the reasons we really honed in on this is that it has an American remake coming up this month, in fact. So, you suggested it, and I’ll tell you right off the bat, I had never heard of it before.
And, uh, so of course I’d never seen it, so I was very interested in checking it out. Craig, did had you seen this before?
Craig: Oh boy. All right. Storytime. What? I had seen it before and I remembered it being really dark. I was doing other stuff yesterday and I didn’t really get around to watching it. And I told my partner, Alan, I’m like, you may have to watch this movie with me.
And he wasn’t happy about it.
Jules: Oh,
Craig: and then we, we, we sat down to watch it together and we watched the first 10 minutes. And he was like, you’ve already made me watch
Jules: this. Oh,
Craig: no!
Jules: Oh, can I apologize to Alan? I feel like I know what this is about. So,
Craig: Alan, I’m so sorry. He’ll never hear that, but I’ll for him.
That’s true. So, we had to Stop. I was like, I’m not gonna make you and like I made him kind of prove it. Like yeah. Well what happens? And he started telling me I’m like Yeah, I guess I did make you watch it.
Todd: You didn’t remember. So we had to,
Craig: no, I remembered, I just didn’t remember. I’m shocked. I probably sold, I probably sold it to him the first time, the way that I tried to sell it to him this time too.
I’m like, it’s not, you know, like a monster movie, you know, it’s not that type of horror. It’s like a thriller, like, like a psychological thriller. Cause he gets into stuff like that. And it is. So I didn’t make him watch it again, but that meant then that I had to get up super early this morning to watch it first thing in the morning.
Oh,
Todd: so you just came off it fresh.
Craig: So, yeah, yeah, I just finished watching it like a half an hour ago. And, yeah, I, Jules, I’m with you, like, I had forgotten how dark it was. I was like,
Jules: Yeah.
Craig: Oh my God. This is horrible.
Jules: When you just said that you’d forgotten that you’d seen it, I’m surprised by that because it’s one of those movies that I don’t know.
I mean, I find that quite a lot of horror movies I’ll watch and I’ll enjoy them in the moment. And then they’re pretty much, you know, they can be a little bit disposable, can’t they
Todd: sometimes?
Jules: This is one of those that has stayed with me, you know, although what I will say is I had forgotten the very, very ending of it, you know, after the, the, the, the brutal scene in the car, after that scene, I’d forgotten that there was another brutal scene after that one.
I think cause I was so shocked by the brutality of the, The first one. So yeah, but I am surprised that you’d kind of money. Perhaps you blocked it out because it was just, that’s what I was going to say.
Craig: I wonder if it’s like selective memory. Like it really is. As soon as the movie was over this morning, I felt a little sick.
Like, that’s terrible. And yeah, we’ve, we’ve watched and talked about other, Movies that had a similar effect. Like it reminded me quite a bit of funny games
Jules: and
Craig: creep a little bit,
Jules: the strangers a little
Craig: bit. Um, Todd, you and I did that movie home movie. Do you remember that one? Where like the kids evil. It gave me all of those vibes.
It was just very dark and very disturbing and maybe more upsetting than the typical horror movie, because the scenario is something that any normal person would do. Could fall into now, I wouldn’t because I don’t trust or like people , so I
Jules: would
Craig: never .
Jules: Well, this is kind of
Craig: the
Jules: message I would never, the movie, I think, isn’t it?
The message is trust no one. Everyone’s an asshole. Oh my God. Is what they’re
Todd: saying. I, I have to tell you personally, I, I don’t gravitate towards movies like these. Tend to, and this is also where Craig and I, uh, uh, differ a bit, you know, in what we have historically watched movies for when we were growing up.
Particularly, we talk about this a lot. Like, I really liked watching horror movies because they were silly. You know, I, I grew up in the eighties and we would go to the video store, we would try to pick the worst looking movies on the shelf so that we could sit around and we could laugh at ’em. So my expectations were really low.
Keeping in mind also, I really love Halloween. I love being scared. I love going through, you know, haunted houses and things like that. And so I do want to watch movies that scare me. But ultimately, at the end of the day, you know, I want to be entertained. And horror movies are not something I go to when I want to have to think a lot and come away with this, this deep message.
And so movies like this can go one of two ways for me. Either I feel like they’re so mean spirited, and brutal and bleak and nihilistic that you just walk away and you just feel sick and you feel gross and, I don’t know, I need to like pop in Super Mario Bros. or something like that to like cleanse myself of This idea that, you know what, the world can actually be a really shitty place for a lot of people, and horrible people do horrible things to each other, and it’s not something I necessarily want to be reminded of.
You know?
Jules: Mm hmm. Let alone Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Todd: In kind of an entertainment form. And so, even with the torture porn era, and those kind of movies coming out, generally speaking, like, what you’re seeing on screen is pretty brutal and gross and mean, but in general, most of those are still rather silly in their concept, or whatever.
But these movies, like, you just rattle them off, Craig, you know, like funny games and this and whatnot. They’re all too real. I was actually thinking of the vanishing. Have you guys ever seen that? Yes. Mm hmm. That’s it.
Jules: Is that the one that was originally French and then there was a remake of it in the early nineties?
Is that right? Yes. Yeah, I know. Yeah,
Todd: that might have been the first movie I ever watched that was so bleak and had an ending that was dark and didn’t turn out well for anyone that really, really unsettled me and bothered me. And I was thinking about that a lot when I watch this movie because once again, it’s it’s this case of these people who are on a vacation and they’re having a good time and they just stumble into a situation through it.
Yeah. Well, in The Vanishing, it’s almost just they’re no fault of their own. It’s just these bad, random things happen to people. In this case, like you said, Jules, the message of the movie seems to be like, maybe we’re too trusting of people and maybe we’re, we’re trying too hard to be polite. Yeah. Yeah. And so just to sum up my thoughts, like, I don’t hate this movie then.
You know, I, I don’t like a movie that’s just mean spirited and bleak. I’m like, wasn’t that awful. This movie does have a message as bleak as it is. And, and it’s as troublesome as it is. So, uh, I feel like it’s a, it’s a nice bit of art and there are a lot of nice things you can say about it. Even though I would warn people, if you’re already turned off by the topics we’re talking about right now, you’re probably going to want to give this one a hard pass.
Jules: Yeah. I think there’s probably something in that, but it is, I think this is such a good example of, of people not wanting to offend anybody, you know, and it gets taken to that ridiculous extreme. Cause I’ve, I’ve read some comments about it online with people saying things like, Oh, it’s so ridiculous as if you’d stand for that as if you put up with people behaving like that.
But I think it, when I read people commenting things like that, it made me think of, um, You know, the theory of if you put a frog directly into boiling water, it will jump out immediately. Of course it will. But if you put a frog into normal, you know, room temperature water and then slowly heat it up, it will stay in the water and die.
And it’s that kind of idea, isn’t it? You know, these people that are the, you know, the baddies, in inverted commas in the film, they don’t start out as being these idiots. sort of evil, dreadful people if they did, if their behavior was at the beginning of the film, as it is towards the end of the film, or, you know, certainly when it reaches that climactic point, you’d have run a million miles away.
You would have never engaged in conversation with them, but they, they almost groomed, don’t they? I guess that’s the term they groomed. Certainly Bjorn, the main So I found it a really interesting watch from that point of view. Just how much will people take? Although I’ll be honest. There were also times when I was going, don’t go back.
That’s ridiculous.
Craig: Okay. So, yeah, I, I, I agree with you and I love that analogy. I think I’ve heard that before, but it does make a lot of sense. But there were just so many points in this movie where I couldn’t rationalize it. Like, I can’t rationalize why you’re saying, just leave. Like, you don’t have any connection to these people.
It’s not even your family. Like, just go. Never speak to them again. Like, why is this a problem? They are strangers to you.
Todd: You
Craig: know what
Todd: though? I think everyone kind of falls on a different spectrum. And it probably depends on how, where they’ve grown up. Or, you know, how they were raised or whatever. My family, you know, I had a very idyllic childhood.
Both of my parents, we didn’t experience real stress. We never had real problems. And, uh, we were all have remained a very happy and loving family. And so we have just skidded about life. And most of our encounters are very. Friendly and normal and happy and we were raised most of our lives in the Midwest where everyone is polite to each other I mean, this isn’t a generalization, but you know compared to New York City or something like that People walking up and down the street and they say hi to each other and we We greet strangers we smile at them.
Craig: We wave to each other from the car Like if you pass them Like if you’re driving and you pass somebody walking, you wave at them. It’s
Todd: ridiculous. We’re weird. And, and since, since I’ve moved abroad, you know, and I’ve been abroad a couple of different times and I do a lot of traveling, you know, I got to learn that most of the world is not like that.
There’s a spectrum, but most of the Americans in particular, I think have a sort of a reputation around the world for being, Overly friendly, overly sharing of their personal lives and things. You could sit next to a guy on a bus and we want to start up a conversation with them and pretty soon they know all about the last ten years and what we’re doing and who our family is and where we’ve been and all this stuff.
And I think people are, at best, amused by that, at worst, turned off and annoyed by it. Like, what in the, why in the world are you talking to me? So. So. Um. I get that, and so I kind of put myself in place, and you know, the Todd of 20 years ago wouldn’t have probably acted like this guy 100%, but he was very much of this mindset.
You know, I want, and still the Todd of today, really in a social situation wants everybody to be having a good time, and I will take some hits just to make sure that nobody else is offended or nobody else is having a bad time. So, I do kind of get how this can happen, and I have Only recently come around to this point where I need to be a little bit more like just like no, you’re a stranger I owe you nothing and this is weird and I goodbye I’m not gonna have anything to do with you and I’m not gonna feel bad about saying that
Jules: Yeah, I think I’ve got I’ve had very very similar thoughts and feelings about this movie exactly what you’ve just said really But I think my issue with it is, like you say, you’re happy to take some hits when it’s concerning you.
You know, if people are having a good time, or I don’t want to be the party pooper and look like I haven’t got a sense of humor or whatever, or I don’t want to offend anybody. Um, but as soon as it starts to affect your children, I think that’s when, for me, that was the point when I suddenly, you know, I mean, I’m, I am a very non confrontational person.
And I will do everything Anything to avoid an argument with somebody. I just want to keep people happy. But I think if the kind of situations that arise in the movie happened in real life, I would very quickly learn how to punch somebody in the face. Yeah.
Craig: Yeah. Yeah. Gosh. I hate to be this guy, but I feel like we need to like give the, because I want to talk about those things.
Like
Todd: when you say,
Craig: when it starts, when it starts to affect the kids. I 100 percent agree and I want to get there, but I feel like I, we need to give the setup. Okay. So right?
Jules: Like
Craig: this, this normal couple, what are their names? Bjorn and Louise. Yeah. And, and they’ve got a daughter, Agnes, and they’re just on vacation and they meet another couple about their age who has a kid about their age.
And that’s Patrick and Karen. And, Patrick and Karen seem like normal and fun or whatever and they have a kid and the kids hang out together. And when they’re done with the vacation, Patrick’s like, you guys should totally come visit us. And they’re like, okay, whatever. And then they go back home, Bjorn and Louise go back home, and tell their friends, yeah, we met this couple, and they’re like, you should come visit us, but we’re probably not going to.
And their friend’s like, no, you totally should! It’ll be great! Well,
Todd: in fact, one of their friends says, it would kind of be rude not to, wouldn’t it? Don’t they? Yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah.
Craig: And somebody, and somebody says, what’s the worst that can happen. You guys, you guys, that is my headspace. My headspace is always, what is the worst that could happen?
And that’s, and that’s why I would never. I would never, like, I don’t care how, like we click on vacation. We have a great time on vacation. That’s great. I am not coming to your house to stay there for several days. I
Jules: saw part of one of the trailers for the remake that is, that you mentioned is coming out very soon.
One of the actors that was in that, I think it’s the, the lady who’s playing, The Karen character and she said well I think probably the moral of this film is never hang out with vacation friends after the vacation.
Perfect.
Todd: I mean, yeah. My point here is that we can delude ourselves in the moment into thinking we know somebody better than we do. Or that we are friendlier with them when we do. And that you were so susceptible to that on vacation. You can spend an intense week with a group of people, and you feel like you’re best friends, and then when you walk away, you never think of it again, and you realize, yeah, I didn’t really know anything about those people.
Honestly, even the time we had together wasn’t that amazing. It was just that we were together for an intense period of
Craig: time. That’s my favorite part about it. Is that you get to, like, hang out and have fun with these people, knowing that you’re never gonna talk to them again. So, so, you can just totally be Yourself and like, you
Jules: can pretend to be somebody completely different,
Craig: right?
Or crazy or crazy, which is what this way to
Todd: bring us back.
Craig: Yeah. They take their child. To go stay at these people’s house. And that’s another thing. Like, I remember when I was a kid and I would get to go on vacation to like, spend a week with my cousins and we didn’t really have anything planned or anything.
We would just hang out and ride our bikes and play. And that was great. It was a great vacation. I can’t imagine as an adult, just going to somebody’s house to just hang out.
Todd: Yeah,
Craig: it’s weird. Like, I don’t know, but it was
Todd: another, it’s another country granted. It’s only an eight hour drive, but you know, they were like, we’re going to show you the Danish countryside.
You know, our son is really looking forward to your visit, which immediately sounds like a lie because their son barely talked and was super shy the whole time. He doesn’t
Craig: talk at all.
Todd: Well.
Craig: Because he has no tongue!
Todd: They don’t know that at first.
Jules: That’s true, that’s true. They find that out later, don’t they?
I looked this up as well, by the way. I’ve been a proper geek about this. He mentions the condition that apparently they say that the child has been born with. And I thought, is that, is it actually real? You know, is that a condition that exists? And it is. I can’t, I can’t find in my notes now what he says it’s called.
Congenital aglossia.
Craig: It’s a condition.
Jules: Yeah, that’s it. There are, there are only 11 people in the world known, recorded people, 11 people in the world living with that condition. Really? So that would be a pretty weird thing to go and, you know, to just stumble across this family and the child happens to have that.
Although, of course, they wouldn’t know that at the time, but, um, yeah, I just thought that was an interesting little, little bit of info. Yeah, 11 people in the whole world haven’t got a tongue or born without one. That’s
Todd: crazy, but they don’t tell them that at first and what I really liked about the movie was that it immediately I mean, you know, you’re watching a horror film so you were immediately expecting to be scared But yeah, I thought the film did a really good job of instilling this sense of dread from the very beginning Some of that came from the music And some of it, I mean, having pretty recently reviewed The Shining, I thought this actually copped a bit of style from that, especially in the earlier stages.
Yes!
Jules: Oh god, yes!
Todd: Yeah.
Jules: That’s so true, that journey in the car at the very beginning.
Todd: Yeah, very long still shots that were extremely wide that didn’t move, and mostly it’s just nature or, you know, the house and things like that. It was pretty creepy.
Jules: Yeah,
Craig: it hadn’t occurred to me, but I did have something, yeah, about the score in my notes and I hadn’t made that connection, but I definitely agree.
Sorry, I started talking and then thank you for establishing. But I think what, what bothered me Was that I understand that when we meet new people, and especially if we have no connection to them, maybe they say something a little off and we’re just like, You’ll let that go. Cause who cares, whatever. I just feel like there are so many red flags.
Jules: Yeah.
Craig: So, so, so many, and maybe not. I, even though I just watched it hours ago, I don’t remember so much if on their vacation, there were those huge red flags, but as soon as they go to visit them, then there are like, but they’re rather small. The very first thing. The, the mom, well, I mean, they, they seem nice and hospitable or whatever, but the very first thing that happens is they come, they’re like, Oh, we cooked you dinner, we roasted a hog.
She had made a whole point. She was a vegetarian and she had explained to them why, like it was a whole thing. It wasn’t just a casual, like, Oh, sorry, I’m a vegetarian. And that’s the end of it. No, they had had a huge conversation about it. And then she shows up and he’s like,
Clip: Louise, is this for you? Oh no, no,
Craig: that that’s
Clip: fine.
I insist. I insist. No, no. I’ll wait till the It’s my favorite part of the roast. It’s delicious. It’s crispy and soft at the same time. Yes. How would I feel? Yeah. What? What’s happening? Let’s go. It’s good, right? Very good.
Jules: She just accepts it. She, she takes hold of the fork and goes, Oh, okay, then I’ll have some of the wild boar that I, you know, just like crazy.
I mean, both of my daughters are vegetarian. And if I did that, they, they’d tell me exactly where to go. You know, if I tried to say to them, Oh, here you are. Just have some of this roast beef that I’ve cooked. It won’t do. Come on. It’s really nice. It’ll do you good. They would not stand for that for one second, but that was what.
It did start to annoy me, kind of, and I thought, is that part of the whole message? You know, are we supposed to feel like that? Are we supposed to be aware that she’s not standing up for herself?
Todd: Number one, I think, I think this is a cultural thing. The director himself, in some interviews, said that he was surprised that this movie translated across cultures because he said, this is such a thing that we Scandinavians, you know, that we, that we deal with.
Dutch, Danish, we are very, very constrained by this polite society, and we are never wanting to step on anyone’s toes. You know, I lived in Japan for three years, and the same kind of things can happen there. People will acquiesce to things that they are very uncomfortable about doing, just because they have been trained, you know, to keep the peace and to not say no.
And so
Craig: Yeah. Always. That’s, that’s not . I, I understand that, you know, in different cultures, you know, you’re, but that’s not an American thing too. Like, yeah, if I go to somebody’s house and they serve me dinner and it’s something that I don’t like, I will still eat and be polite about it. But it, but if I have.
If I have told them in advance, I’m a vegetarian and I have specific reasons for being a vegetarian and then they serve me meat, I’m not gonna do that.
Todd: That’s you, Craig.
Craig: Maybe
Todd: That’s you. Todd, come on. I’m telling you. No. Seriously? No, seriously, people will do this. It does seem extreme, really. People
Jules: will do
Todd: this.
Do you think? Uh, yes. Wow. They will. And now, I don’t know why she didn’t just pipe up and say, oh, don’t, don’t forget, I’m a vegetarian. She probably just could have said those words and whatever, but in the moment, with the chuckling and the insisting and all this stuff, there can be a lot of things going through your head.
There can be like, well, maybe he doesn’t remember, or maybe, you know, he, then you think, oh God, well, he cooked this whole roast boar and this is all we’re going to eat tonight, and then I’m going to spoil the whole thing by speaking up and saying something for it. You can be caught in this kind of position.
And now, you or I. Probably wouldn’t do that, but I am telling you, especially in some cultural situations, it would be again. It’s it’s so against your training that you just might just go along with it. Take a little nibble or just pretend like you ate a little bit of the end or something like that. But what’s going on here really is that these people are being tested.
You know, by the end of the movie, I was like, why did, why did all this happen? And there’s an answer, and I think we’re going to get to it, but They’re, they’re, what becomes obvious is they are being tested. These are just a series of, because they could just take this couple, you know, Hi, you’re at our house.
Put plastic bags over their head and do what they’re going to do with them. But yeah, you don’t know if they’re going to put up a fight, you don’t know if they’re gonna what they’re going to do. It’s so much better to do this grooming and to do this testing so that you know what you’re getting into. And I think that’s what’s happening here.
Jules: And I think they enjoy it as well, don’t they? I get the impression that it’s part of their, their game. It’s something that they like to do. It’s their hobby almost. So, um, yeah, very strange.
Todd: Also, there’s this other dynamic too, right? There’s the husband and wife dynamic, and I think what is very clear from the beginning before they even go to that house is that Bjorn is a little unhappy.
He’s mm-Hmm. kind of got this longing for the simple life, you know, he’s very taken by Italy. By their time there in Tuscany, he’s, he’s like almost crying at the girls singing and looking around and, and he sees Patrick kind of raises glass like, Hey buddy, I’m enjoying this too. From across the way. Yeah.
And then back in the city, you know, he’s distracted when he’s at the apartment and you can see him staring out the window and the parallels are obvious, you know, he’s looking out the window and he’s like, this isn’t Tuscany. So he’s kind of wants to get into this and he kind of wants to, he’s, he’s got this appeal of this remote place out of nowhere.
And these people who seem to live this simpler life and are very easy going. And then. You know, now you have this husband and wife dynamic. Maybe the wife isn’t quite like that, but because the husband kind of is, he’s kind of like, Oh, go ahead, go, go with it, honey. You know, and they can’t argue in front of the guy.
And so, you know, that’s happened before
Jules: in any relationship. That’s interesting that you’ve interpreted it like that because I interpreted. Bjorn as being incredibly bored with his life. I felt that he was sort of in that, I think we all go through it at some point, you know, when you realize, you know, adult life can be so monotonous and, you know, responsibilities and there’s that.
Brief moment when they, they go back home after the Italian holiday. And Louise is saying, Oh, Agnes needs some new shoes. What do you think of these shoes? And shows them a picture and, Oh, and she’s going to need another little jacket as well. I think I might order her one of those. And that’s when he’s looking out of the window and I, I imagine him just being so bored and then later on as well, when he’s, he’s in the car talking to Patrick and, uh, and he starts describing, well, Patrick is describing, I get this feeling inside that I can’t express and I need to, to let this thing out.
And what he means, of course, is because actually I’m a serial killer.
As well, you know, yeah, this, this feeling, there must be more to life, that kind of thing. Cause I was watching, I felt really sorry for Bjorn, but I just wanted to say, Oh mate, Do you know what? Just have a quick affair or something that just get it out of your system.
Craig: I feel sorry for him in this situation because this is a terrible situation that he finds himself in with his family, but I don’t feel sorry for him for his life.
And I, I really kind of hate this trope of. People who are in long term relationships, like I’m, I’m so bored and I, like, I, I need something else. Oh God. Like you, you can be, you can be in a happy long term relationship. You
Todd: can be, but I mean, it’s not necessarily just a trope, Craig. It does happen to people just cause you’re happy.
I understand.
Craig: God, I understand it just bothers me like and and that scene that you were just talking about where they’re talking together in the car I 100 percent thought that they were gonna fuck
They did look at each other My mind
Jules: didn’t go though. Oh
Craig: my god I thought that Patrick is gonna whip his dick out and they were gonna go to town Huh?
Todd: That
Jules: would be a whole other movie.
Todd: That’s the way you wanted it to go, wasn’t
Craig: it? I don’t know, like, he, like, the bad guy is like
Clip: You know, sometimes I have this, this thing, right here.
And, and it’s so powerful and wild. And, and, and I like it. That’s the weird part. I, I really like it. You understand? Yeah. You do? Totally. Normally I just, uh, Just try to hold it down or Keep it in, keep it in chains. Why?
I don’t know why. Too many rules, I guess. It’s, um It’s what? I don’t know. It’s close, yeah, I don’t know, it’s close to fabric, you know? It’s like I’ve become this person that I don’t want to be.
Craig: Yeah, you know. What you’re supposed to do, but don’t you ever want to do what you’re not supposed to do? Like, uh, I think I’ve seen this movie.
Gosh, gosh, gosh. But I get it. You know, they, whatever. I would never do it, but they do, they go and they spend some time at the house. I’m like, everything’s okay for a while, but then everything’s weird. Like that’s. my problem with it. Like red flags and beyond that The red flags, they leave and then come back and stay.
Todd: That made me so angry,
Craig: but
Todd: I got it. I did not think, look, you can, you can look at it one way and say, I would never do that, but it doesn’t mean that it’s unrealistic. I think. I don’t think these people would do it. I don’t think they were unbelievable characters. Because it’s not like all these red flags all the time and they’re so severe, you know?
The first thing that really happens is when they’re out in the fields and Abel’s sitting on the slide and Agnes wants to slide down. There’s a language barrier. The parents all talk English to each other, but it seems like the kids can’t quite, I don’t know what it is, but anyway, one speaking Dutch, one speaking Danish.
Louisa asks Patrick, hey, you know, could you, could you maybe tell Abel to get off the slide so that she can go down? And he stomps over there and yanks him off the slide, quite forcefully, is like, apologize to her and whatnot. Now, he’s, he’s a bit rough with them, and this is the first time they’ve ever seen these parents deal with a kid who has an issue or something like that.
And. You know, I’ve been in situations like that where I’ve seen some parents and their parenting style is not something that I agree with. But, to me, that’s not like, oh, these people are weird. It’s like, oh, I don’t agree with this parenting style and it’s making me uncomfortable and I wish they would stop.
But Fine,
Craig: fine, fine,
Todd: but do
Craig: you want to be friends with them? Do you want to go stay at their house? Well,
Todd: if I’m already there and he’s a little rough with the boy and he’s like, no, you don’t need to be, it’s okay, you know, like, whatever. And
Craig: then Yeah, I don’t question people’s parenting styles either.
That’s not my place. I, I, I understand
Todd: that. The part that bothered me The part where I thought, Oh, my God, what is going on here? Is later that night, Louise expresses her feelings to Bjorn. She’s like, I don’t really feel comfortable here. And at first he feels like, well, he’s listening to her, but he’s like, well, maybe we can just manage it for another day, day and a half.
What’s the harm? And then almost immediately the next day in the morning, the woman comes in. Or might even be the next minute. The woman comes in, Karin, and says, Hey, we would like to take you out to our favorite restaurant here in town. And they’re like, Oh, that’s great. And as she leaves, Bjorn kind of looks at Louise and is like, So unpleasant, that woman, huh?
Like, you really think this is a big deal? But then, that night As they’re getting ready to go, a guy shows up and it’s the surprise babysitter.
Jules: This was the moment for me. This was the moment when I thought, no, okay, that’s it now. No, no, no, no, surely they’re not gonna do this. They’re not gonna say, yeah, okay, we’ll leave our child with this man we’ve never met in our lives before.
Doesn’t even
Todd: speak English. No way. That’s
Craig: hilarious to me.
Todd: That’s hilarious to me
Craig: because my parents So would have done that. Like if their, if their friends had hired a babysitter and we were just going to be there, that would be fine. They’re friends, not
Todd: their friends, but like they’re people they just met.
Jules: Exactly. I mean, I don’t know. I mean, he
Craig: seemed nice. I mean, like, how, how much do you vet a babysitter really? I mean, like, he seems,
Jules: well,
Craig: I don’t have kids. You’re right. I would probably, I would, yeah, I would, but no, like my parents were young, they were in their twenties. I was a kid and they wanted to. My parents are middle America people, and they’re not wild at all.
When I say they wanted to go out, like, maybe once in a while they wanted to be away from their children. If that meant that they had to hire a college student that they’d never met before,
Jules: I’m sure it’ll be fine. It’ll be fine. It just felt a bit different that obviously they didn’t, they didn’t know these people at all.
And you’re just taking somebody’s word for it that you’ve only known really for a matter, matter of hours and saying, well, yeah, that’ll be okay.
Craig: Yeah. What bothered me is that Agnes’s parents, obviously you can see in their performance that they’re hesitant. They’re reluctant. They, something doesn’t feel right.
And they keep going along with it anyway. And that’s true for most of the movie. And I get that. Honestly, guys, I’m a very, like, antisocial
Jules: person. I just
Craig: am so happy to just be by myself in my house because I’m crazy. Um, but I, I get it. Like a rational person would normally, you know, you give people the benefit of the doubt, but to what extent?
And I just can’t imagine as those parents, they obviously sense that something is wrong and they continue to sense it. I just can’t. Yeah, but they continue to stay like but yeah,
Todd: they yeah, they do but they’re they’re one foot out the door I mean, this is where it starts to really ratchet up like up to this point.
It’s kind of weird Yeah, but then at the dinner Patrick gets suddenly weird and confrontational about her Vegetarianism
Clip: and remember I’m a vegetarian. I’m
Todd: sorry.
Clip: Yes. I don’t eat meat. Oh, yes. Yes, so good for the environment Yes, but you eat fish, right? So you’re not a vegetarian, you’re a pescatarian. Yes.
And fish is not meat? Of course, um, but it’s better for the environment. And the way the fishing industry works and how we treat the oceans is not affecting the climate.
Todd: And they’re at this quiet restaurant that’s totally just them. It’s not really even a restaurant. It’s more like a bar with some tables.
Luisa’s getting drunk. They get up and dance and start making out. And at first, Bjorn and Luisa are like, Oh, you know, well, maybe we should get up and dance too. But then the other couple just starts going to town on each other. And it’s just making them so uncomfortable. And then when they go to leave Patrick looks at the bill and is like, Well, somebody had a good time tonight.
Craig: Yeah. I am out. I will pay that bill. I will pay that bill and I am f ing out. We’re done. Thank you.
Jules: I just, I thought exactly that. That would be the moment, wouldn’t it? Where you would go, right. Okay. Literally, you have to really cross the line now. Things can’t get any worse. Surely.
Todd: They’re driving drunk and their music’s loud and they won’t turn it down.
And they’re being rude. And. It wasn’t. Rude. Yeah. That was it for them. She, what, she takes a quick shower and it seems like, um, Patrick has come into the bathroom and is peeing while she’s brushing his teeth while she’s taking a shower. She comes back and they all agree. They both agree. We are leaving. So they get in the car and they go and to me this was like, you know, if this movie had gone any other way This is like they didn’t pass the test These couple did what they could to ratchet up to a thousand percent to see what would make this couple break This made them break and they left and then like you knew was gonna happen as they’re driving away This girl who we’ve already established loves her rabbit more than anything and the dad is like a little hero for going and fetching it Whenever she loses it.
She’s left a rabbit Oh my god. Oh my god. I was thinking, you remember Burnt Offerings? I was like so Burnt Offerings. It’s like, just go. Keep driving. You will get a new rabbit. Oh my god.
Craig: Don’t go back! Yeah. Yeah, so stupid and then and then when they go back like it turns out the rabbit was in the car the whole time That was so um, yeah
Todd: So cruel for the audience.
I felt so mad at the director for that.
Craig: Yeah, and then there And so then they’re back and the husband goes in, it was like, sorry, we left. And the bad dad is like, Oh, good. I just hate that you didn’t think we were good hosts. Yeah, he does that so well. I thought that was funny. And the wife, the wife does.
like, I’m sorry, our house isn’t a mansion and we really thought you’d be comfortable. Like, fine. I get it. Who cares? Leave, send them, send them a nice email.
Jules: I’ve written in my notes here, I’ve just made myself laugh, I’ve written in my notes that the part where when Louise is in the shower and Patrick walks in, he’s brushing his teeth, I’ve written, am I a victim blamer? Because I was really angry with her in that moment. I thought she doesn’t even have to, you know, you wouldn’t have to be aggressive about it, but you could just kind of go, Oh, hi, did you know I’m here?
I’m in the shower. Can you, you alright, just give me a You know, she just kind of stands there and freezes in the shower. I thought, her husband’s literally just over the way. So just say, oh mate, I’m just here. Can you give me a minute? But then, no, and then to choose to go back for a cuddly toy. Oh no, this was when I started to really feel, as I say, a little bit, and I did think, am I, am I a bad person?
Am I victim blaming? Am I saying they’re asking for it? What am I dreading? I don’t know. They’re not
Craig: asking
Jules: for it. Ratcheting it up really slowly, isn’t it? You know, bit by bit, these people kind of fall into the trap.
Craig: They’re not, I don’t think they’re asking for it, but they’re stupid. There’s no reason for it.
Like, and so many things happen. Like these people become, obviously, abusive to their own child who doesn’t speak because he doesn’t have a tongue, then I’ll just gloss over the point that the bad dad watches the nice couple and The and the good dad sees it and just doesn’t say anything
Jules: So weird and that was just after the shower scene as well She just got out of that shower obviously feeling really quite understandably Creeped out by it. She gets into bed with her husband and starts making out with him. And that felt a bit, that felt a bit weird to me. I wasn’t sure what was going on there, but okay.
I’m not, no judgment.
Craig: I mean, no, it’s fine. To be fair. They can have sex. Next, if they want, that’s fine, but you are in somebody else’s house. And like, honestly, this house seems super small. So it seems like all of the rooms are kind of connected and everybody can hear. Like, I don’t know, maybe calm down, but whatever, that’s fine.
But when you see the gross, so dad watching you, I mean, and you’re just like, whatever, that’s cool.
Todd: He glanced in, as he walked by in the hallway, he wasn’t like he was Standing there forever. I, I,
Craig: he was standing there. He only walked away. He only walked away.
Todd: He made
Craig: eye contact and walked away. Yes. He only, yes, he only walked away because the guy saw him.
Well, he was standing there watching them.
Todd: Yeah. Okay. Well this was also the same point at which the girl was trying to get into the bedroom. Yes. So her timing was poor. So obviously, you know, Patrick would be up because he was what we find out, he got the, he got the girl, he got, um, Agnes. The mother after they’re done banging gets up and is looking for Agnes and she’s not in her bed And it turns out she’s laying in bed with the other two couple with the other couple NAKED!
Craig: He’s naked,
Todd: yeah. NAKED! He’s naked, yeah.
Craig: That’s not okay! No, it’s not okay. And I feel like that’s the But this is the point I feel like that’s the thing that pushes them over the We really have to go and thank God they do. But then that God damn bunny and they come back.
Todd: No, no, no, no,
Craig: no. Am I going backwards?
You’re going
Todd: backwards. Yeah, this is, you’re going backwards. This is when, yeah. No, this, this, they decided they were definitely going to go. But then there’s shit happening with Patrick and Abel at night. Bjorn confronted Patrick about the bed thing. Patrick tried to make him feel guilty about it. Like, well, your daughter was crying.
Where were you? But then, like, some stuff happens with Patrick and Abel at night. He can hear, Bjorn can hear them kind of yelling and arguing. Doesn’t really understand. And at this point, you can see it on his face. He’s like, we’re going to leave, but it almost feels like this kid needs rescuing. And so he gets up and he follows Patrick.
Well, he kind of wakes up and walks around and he sees Patrick kind of go out to the garage. Sort of follows him out and around and he finds, Camera equipment inside. That’s like a shed or something. And there’s a staircase up the stairs. And when he gets to the top of the stairs, he sees all along the walls, all of these many photos of them posed with families, much like the photo that this family had sent them after their vacation in Italy.
And what he notices is. That in each of these photos, it’s like they’ve kid swapped. There’s a photo of them with this other family and their kid. And now they have that kid and he immediately knows what’s going on. He goes downstairs and he wanders out to where the, I guess is another building where the pool was, right?
And this, this was the part that really turned my stomach was when he walked into that pool and saw Abel floating face down.
Craig: Yes. It was horrifying. Oh my God. Yeah. I mean, I knew what was going on. I knew these people were crazy. I knew that they were grooming or whatever their victims. I didn’t know exactly what was going to happen, but to see them posed with all of these other families with their.
At the time, child, and then, you know, the victim parents with their child, they’re just doing this. It made me sick. And then, I really think that the most shocking thing From this movie, you know, despite the fact that Abel or whatever the kid’s name is, has been kidnapped and tortured and blah, blah, blah, to see him floating dead in the swimming pool, really, really upset.
Jules: Yeah, it is. That’s upsetting, isn’t it? It is a really upsetting moment. But you know, I thought that the actor who plays Bjorn, I thought, Thought he was absolutely brilliant. Did you? Cause all the way, all the way through the movie, I’ve been so frustrated with him, so annoyed by him. And then to see his facial expression, you all know, you see the penny drop when he’s looking at the photographs and you think, thank God.
Okay. Now he’s going to leave. And then. He’s confronted with that horrific moment of seeing this poor, poor little boy floating in the pool. And I just thought the act, that actor was so good. Yeah. I thought his facial expressions were absolutely spot on. So yeah. Horrific scene, but absolutely brilliantly done.
I
Todd: thought. Oh, he was brilliant. So amazing.
Craig: Yes. Agreed. Agreed. I think that the acting in this movie is fantastic. I think this is a really good movie. I think that it is beautifully shot. I think that the acting is fantastic. It’s very suspenseful going in. If you don’t know what you’re getting into, it’s shocking.
And there are a lot of twists. Like, I think it’s a great movie.
Jules: Yeah,
Craig: I suppose it is very difficult to watch because, and I think for me, the reason that is difficult to watch is because as anti social as I am, I could potentially find myself in a situation like this, that I’ve tried to be nice and now I don’t know how to get out of it.
Jules: Yes.
Craig: Yeah. Ultimately, I, I think that that’s what the big struggle is. They try to be nice and they’re trying to get out of it, but they don’t know how. And then in act three, it turns into something totally different where these people are in fact psychopaths. They are doing this. Apparently, systematically.
And we don’t know why. Like, We never find out. We don’t know why! No! And, like, is it just them? I, I, I did read that they had initially intended to The finale was supposed to be larger. That, like, it was, like, supposed to be, like, a religious sect that was sacrificing people and, and yeah, me too. Me too. I am too.
I prefer that. It’s just these crazy people.
Jules: Yes. The fact that it’s meaningless makes it more horrific, doesn’t it? I mean, obviously it’s horrific anyway, regardless. But the fact that there is no real motivation, no real purpose, it’s, it just is, that’s, what’s really scary. I think. Well, and that’s why
Craig: I said in the beginning, you know, I listed all those movies that are reminded me of the reason that I included the strangers is because there’s such a similar line in the very end, one of them says, why are you doing this?
And the bad guy says, because you let me, yeah, like that’s so crazy. But at the same time, I’m like, yeah, I would not have put myself in that position. I feel bad for you, but don’t put yourself in that position.
Jules: Especially obviously on the rewatch. I thought there are so many moments where you go, okay, if you just stopped now, if you turned around now, everything would be okay.
No, you’re going to keep going for a bit. Okay, well, if you stop now, that was a bit horrible, but it will still be okay. You know, there’s so many, there’s probably about 10 moments where they could have taken the opportunity to go, Do you know what? That’s, that’s just gone one step too weird. We’re going to go home.
But they don’t, they just keep rolling with it.
Craig: They almost get away so many times.
Jules: Right.
Todd: And you still feel like they could have. And there were so many moments when they could have, but they were so paralyzed and so inactive.
Jules: Yeah.
Todd: Basically, they get in the car, they take off, they have car trouble, so of course they gotta stop, and like an idiot, he says, You guys wait here and I’m gonna go up to the house.
Yeah. Ugh, don’t do that, you know? So of course he goes to the house, there’s nobody there. When he comes back, Patrick and Karin are right there. And they’ve already brought the girl and the mother into the back seat and told them that Patrick called for them. And he’s standing outside the car and, uh, Pat Stop
Craig: listening!
Stop listening! If you Yeah, if you don’t want to be disturbed. Bjorn,
Todd: Bjorn says to Patrick, like, please don’t hurt my family, and Patrick lies to him and he says, everything will be fine as long as you do exactly what I say. By the way, everybody out there, that is never true.
Jules: Yeah, that
Todd: is something people say it’s never true.
So he goes in and he is continues to be compliant. He doesn’t turn around and shout. Something’s wrong. He doesn’t reach over. Patrick even tests him one more time by pulling over to the side of the road, taking a piss, leaving his keys in the car. He could have done that. The movie is just hammering this point home that evil exists in the world and sometimes it’s able to be successful because we literally just stand by and do nothing even when it’s our own best interest.
And it’s frustrating to see him do this and then they drive all around and then they stop because they’re clearly not going to the house. And the most heartbreaking part of this whole movie for me. Is when the mother and the girl are getting scared and in the back and the girl’s like mommy mommy I’m scared and she pulls her to her and says honey.
You know what? Mommy’s always told you nothing bad can happen to you While mom is with you
Jules: Yes.
Todd: Oh. And two seconds later, something bad happens to her.
Craig: She gets her tongue cut off.
Todd: And dragged away forever.
Jules: Oh, it’s heartbreaking. That part is just, oh, I could feel that in my stomach. Just that, you know, literally having a child dragged away from you.
And don’t tell your child this thing. And it’s the babysitter. It’s the babysitter. We knew. We knew. Don’t trust the babysitter. Yes. It
Craig: was bad. It was bad. My God, that part killed me too, because I feel like when that Girl, when Agnes was ripped away from her mother, her mother died in that moment. Like, for the remainder of the film, she wasn’t even there.
She didn’t care. She was done. She was done. I think that the dad and God, if you haven’t, if you’re listening to this and you haven’t seen this movie, I really, you should watch it. Like stop now and watch it.
Jules: But I
Craig: was
Jules: just
Craig: so, I just felt so sad at the end. It felt so tragic and they take those. people, the nice people, the nice couple that we like, they take them and they force them to strip.
Jules: Yes, there’s more humiliation on top of the heartbreak and on top of the dreadful things that have already happened.
They take it even further. It’s just so horrible.
Craig: Right. Just, just your humiliation, degradation. Yeah. But only just say, go here. And then we’re going to stone you to death. Yeah. I have never, I have never in my life I think seen, I don’t know, maybe some religious movie like Passion of the Christ that I’ve blocked out.
I don’t know, but I’ve never seen somebody stoned. Oh
Jules: yeah. That’s brutal. And, and
Craig: to, and to see these two people who are. scared and defeated. I mean, they’re defeated. It’s, it’s over and they know it. Yeah. To see them just cling to each other and then be brutally stone to death. It’s sick. It’s disgusting.
And it was so hard to watch and and then the credits just roll and my jaw is just on the floor like watch
Jules: Who is this strange British woman who’s made me go through this experience?
Todd: No, I was like, who is this team of people who’s investing time and money into remaking this for an American audience? I was like, what the hell? What are they thinking?
Jules: I’m really interested to see it.
Craig: Yeah, did you all read that whoever the money behind this movie wanted them to film alternate endings because they didn’t feel like the audience would be satisfied with this ending.
So they, they wanted it to be a lot of different people executing people or they wanted there to be some explanation behind why. These people were torturing these other people and ultimately they just didn’t do it So I’ll be very interested to see in the remake if they stick with the really really bleak Nature of this or if they do something different.
I have no idea
Jules: Yeah That is gonna be interesting because I think the one of the reasons that this film was so unsettling and upsetting is precisely for that isn’t it as we said earlier that the fact that you’re not given a reason it’s we’re not told you know what these horrible people’s childhood was like or you know what it is that why their how their brain is wired wrongly so that they behave in this horrible way they just are almost the epitome of, of evil, really.
They’re just bad people. And it’s really difficult to have to have to think about that, isn’t it? You know, we like, even when, you know, dreadful things happen in the real world, we all, one of the first things we ask is why did they do that? You know, not that it makes the actions any better, but at least we can start to try and gain some sort of insight into what that person’s, what they’re doing.
Source of thinking was, but yeah, this, this kind of, I will be interested to see if the remake, because I presume the remake will have had a much, much bigger budget. And, um, yeah, they’re going to have to obviously, you know, they, they’re going to want to sell tickets. So are they going to do it so that it’s got a happier ending, you know, and the good guy wins out.
I’m really interested to see how they’ll do this.
Craig: God, I can’t even imagine. James McAvoy, I think is playing the,
Jules: yeah.
Craig: Patrick the bad guy. I
Jules: love him.
Craig: He’s he’s brilliant. He’s brilliant. Yeah, he’s a brilliant, brilliant actor. Yeah. What split I think was the one movie that he did. He is That’s
Todd: that guy. He’s fantastic.
Yeah. He’s got
Jules: eyes that just, he can do this thing where he, and I don’t know if you’ve watched the trailer for the remake of it, but his eyes are amazing. He’s got this look, hasn’t he? Of you don’t know what I’m going to do from one second to the next. You know, he’s just, he’s got this, But he’s all because he’s such an attractive man, you sort of, he’s perfect playing that kind of person that can lure you in and then just, you know, kind of completely turn into something different.
Yeah, I think everything. I don’t think I’ve seen James McAvoy in anything that I haven’t. Enjoyed, you know, and it’s largely down to his performance. I just think he’s he’s excellent.
Craig: Well, yeah I 100 agree and I I think that he’ll be great. This seems like a great role for him I I think he’s got i’m i’m looking forward to it
Todd: I think he’s got a big shoes to fill because I thought the original actor fed.
Yvonne Hewitt. Oh, absolutely
Jules: Yeah Did
Todd: you know, by the way, he’s married to the, to the actress who played his wife in the movie, Karina Smulders. He has a very, very, very long and accomplished career from the Netherlands. He’s just, uh, he’s been in a lot of movies and he’s apparently very well respected and loved.
I just, you know, I don’t see enough of him because I don’t watch a lot of foreign films. See what kind of happens to come past me, but, uh, I was very, I had a lot, I had a pretty good time reading up on him and going back and looking at some clips of some of the other stuff he’s done. He’s brilliant. And he really pulled this off well.
Jules: Yeah. I thought the cast in general were fab, weren’t they? They were just great. Yeah.
Craig: A hundred percent. I thought they were fantastic. The, the woman who is his wife and played his wife, I thought she was spectacular. I thought they were all great. Everybody did a great job. Todd and I, when, when I told Todd that we were going to do this movie, I said, it’s so weird to me that there’s going to be a remake because this movie just came out in 2022.
Todd: And
Craig: I said, and it, and it’s an English language film. I had forgotten that it’s not entirely English language. But I, I, I still, I still find that a little bizarre. Like, why are, why are we remaking movies two years later? It just came out. Yeah, it
Jules: is interesting. And I hope they do keep that sort of understated vibe to it.
But the more we talk about it and the more, as you say, it’s only two years later, makes me wonder if they will. Completely change parts of it so that it’s it’s not quite so understated and it has got that more sort of Budget, I don’t know, slightly more action horror feel in places to it, you know, what do you think?
Yeah.
Craig: Well, well, I, I mean, I’ll watch it. I don’t, I might, I might see it in the theater or I might wait until it comes out on streaming, but I’ll, I’ll definitely watch it and, and maybe then you can watch it too and come back and talk with us again, because this has been great. Like, oh man.
Jules: It has been so much fun, I can’t begin to tell you.
It’s so nice.
Craig: It’s so nice when people reach out to us. I, I told Alan this morning, like it was right before I was getting on, like 20 minutes before I was getting on. And I said, there’s, there’s a woman in London who is excited to talk to me.
I’m, I’m as shocked
Todd: as you are, Craig, honestly,
Craig: here I am, here I am in my little tiny modest house in middle America, Missouri, and I’m like, there’s somebody out there in the world who is excited to talk to me and that just makes me feel really, really good.
Jules: Talking to the two of you has just, it’s been the highlight of my year, honestly.
And the fact that you’re mentioning Alan to me is Alan, Alan knows who I am. That’s amazing.
Craig: He does. He’s like, Oh, are you, are you recording with the comedian today? Like, yep.
Jules: Love Alan, love him for that.
Todd: Tell us about your podcast. You’ve got one as well, don’t you?
Jules: Yeah, I have a podcast. My podcast is called Avoid Excessive Cleavage and it’s named after the title of my comedy show, which is, the full title of my comedy show is Avoid Excessive Cleavage and Other Advice to Ignore.
And the reason that it’s called that is because Because I am a woman of a certain age. And once you get past around about the 40 mark, you seem to just be given so much advice about what you should and shouldn’t wear, how you should and shouldn’t behave, things you should and shouldn’t do. And I just got a little bit tired of it.
So I did a whole show about aging and how. You should just own it and be happy and have a great life, no matter what age you are. So I ran with that and my podcast is also based around that idea of kind of, who cares how old you are, just live your life and have fun.
Todd: Mm.
Jules: So yeah. That’s what my podcast is all
Todd: about.
Gonna have to get listening to that. And so if we just search for that name, we can find it.
Jules: Avoid excessive cleavage, guys.
Todd: Wonderful. Oh, well, I don’t, I’m not going to take that advice, but, uh,
I happen to have a fondness for excessive cleavage myself. So, uh,
Jules: there you go.
Todd: I will take
Jules: it. Get your cleavage out and then have a great time. That’s all good.
Todd: Then I’ll take your advice. That’s wonderful.
Jules: No, it’s been fabulous. I’ve absolutely loved it. Thank you so much for having me on here, guys. It’s been fabulous.
Todd: Thank you for coming on. It’s been lovely chatting with you, and thanks for the recommendation for such a good movie. Thank you so much for joining us today, Jules. Thank you all out there for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please reach out to us as well. You can just go on to our website and click talk to us, where you can record a little voice message.
You don’t have to have any special software or anything installed. You just send us an email. Send that straight to us. We’d love to hear from you. If you don’t have to do that, you can also just shoot us an email, or find us online at Facebook, or Twitter, or our Instagram channels. Just search for Two Guys in a Chainsaw podcast and you’ll crack us down there.
If you really want to get deep in the weeds and become a part of the party, join our patrons at patreon. com slash chainsaw podcast. We have a lot of fun behind the scenes and a lot of chatter going on there as well. Until next time, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig. And I’m Jules. With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.
We’ll see you next time.
If you’re looking for a late-night-cable-horror flick to goof on, Demonic Toys would fit the bill. Otherwise, there are probably better so-bad-they’re-good movies to spend your time with. Craig revisited some nostalgic one-liners from his childhood, while Todd just threw up his hands.
Episode 406, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast
Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys in a Chainsaw. I’m Todd. Well, today we are doing a movie that you suggested, Craig. I had suggested we do Ghoulies. Just kinda out of the blue, really. But you came back with, Oh man, I wanna do Demonic Toys. Because, uh, you wanted to do something quite silly.
I thought Ghoulies was gonna be silly enough. But, uh, apparently, The bar wasn’t, wasn’t low enough. Before we did
Craig: it, I kind of wanted to have a talk about Ghoulies, because I honestly don’t, I don’t remember Ghoulies that well. What I remember really liking is Ghoulies 2. The one where they’re in like a circus, and I never saw that one.
It’s got our favorite old guy in it. I don’t be able to think of his name. He was in The Blob and House 2. Oh, yes. Royal Dano? Yes, yes. He’s in it. So anyway, I just wanted, before we committed to Ghoulies, I wanted to kind of toss that around. Have a serious conversation. Okay, fair enough.
Todd: Well, we’ll save that for another day.
Now we’re gonna have a very serious conversation about demonic toys, aren’t we? Well, it
Craig: did, it brought that movie to mind. They’re not dissimilar, they’re both little creature movies. And, I didn’t remember much about this movie at all, except for the fact that fact that my sister and I used to watch it when we were kids.
Yeah. And I felt like I, I remembered either liking it or thinking it was funny or, or something. I couldn’t put my finger on what it was, but I thought
Todd: it’d be fun to return to. You would have been in middle school when this was released. It’s a direct to video release. Yeah. And so do you think you rented it?
Maybe copied it or. Maybe you rented it. This feels like something that. It feels like late night. Yeah. I was just going to say like USA up all night. A hundred percent. I was getting Sorority Babes and the Slimeball Bola Rama vibes. Almost anything really by Charles Band around this time kind of has these same vibes.
It’s just, uh, you know, let’s face it, relatively cheap, straight to video schlock. But, you know, they have their charm points, and I certainly enjoyed watching those movies. When there was nothing else to watch late at night, mostly hoping to see some boobs and a little bit of gore too, and something silly.
And, and, this has all of that in it. A bunch of silly stuff, some gore, and a couple boobs, so, uh, I mean they were Not God given, but they were there. Big, yeah. As was the style at the time. Right. Nineties. Oh my God. I’m 100 percent certain I’d never seen this before, but I had heard of it. You know, I figured we were going to get to it eventually.
I am aware that this movie spawned some sequels. And, uh, some crossovers with Dollman. There’s like Dollman vs. Demonic Toys. There’s Puppet Master vs. Demonic Toys or something like that. We did Puppet Master earlier and, of course, It’s kind of hard not to compare the two since they are both Charles Band productions.
Yeah, I’m just gonna come right out and say I think Puppet Master is a far better film than this one. They’re both similarly a little far fetched and corny. Similar production value. I don’t know. I think Puppet Master has a higher production value, but it came first. I think They were up to Puppet Master 2 or 3 by the time this movie came out.
Yeah. And those were at least released in the theater, I think, and this one never was,
Craig: so. The security guard in this movie is watching a Puppet Master movie on his TV. Yeah. Little in joke there, right. Yeah, I don’t know, I think Puppet Master probably had a little bit better production value. I know we’ve talked about it, but it’s been a long time, I don’t remember it all that well, but I kind of seem to remember it being at least a little bit scarier.
Yeah.
Todd: Yeah.
Craig: Then this movie,
Todd: this movie isn’t really scary. Unlike a lot of these, really, it doesn’t make any pretense toward any kind of suspense. I liken it to almost like just a supernatural slasher without the suspense. The characters are, almost all of them are just unlikable, or you just don’t care about them, or they’re just unbelievable because the acting is kind of terrible.
We’re going to talk about it because, you know, we’re nobody. Look, nobody is going to take this movie seriously. Nobody’s probably supposed to take this movie seriously. Now our job here on this podcast, we fairly review horror films where our job is to take this movie seriously somewhat. So we’re going to talk about the good and the bad from a critical perspective, from a movie that probably doesn’t never asked to be reviewed from a critical perspective.
Yeah,
Craig: I, but. That being said you’ve got to take it for what it is like, oh, yeah, that’s what I’m saying This movie doesn’t have aspirations to greatness in any way. Oh, no. No, I think it’s just it’s trying to be fun Yeah, it’s weird. The thing that I found the weirdest about this and we can talk about specific Moments moving forward, but I couldn’t tell if the movie was written for 13 year old boys or by a 13 year old boy, like
Todd: I agree with you all the only thing, if it had been written by 13 year old boys, there would have been more than two boobs in it.
So I would say probably probably for 13 year old boys.
Craig: Yeah, gosh, some of the dialogue, especially wow. Wow,
Todd: the writing, you know, there’s this, there’s this line, right? I mean, there’s movies like this and then there’s movies like, and I just want to keep coming back to it, Chopping Mall. Yeah, and you could almost say Chopping Mall is just as corny and silly, but Chopping Mall has a bit more tongue in cheek.
Not that this movie doesn’t. There’s something about Chopping Mall that is just laughing at itself so much that it’s charming and I didn’t find a lot of charm in this movie. I and I found it Entertaining if you have nothing else to watch, you know, there’s stuff going on. There’s stuff to see it’s not boring.
That’s well, it is a little boring in some parts, but it’s, you know, it’s not as charming as I thought it could have been and should have been. I remember the puppet masters movies being charming maybe because there was a degree of mystique and mystery and, and a bit of lore that was actually rooted in history that, I mean, even though it’s rather silly.
It wasn’t quite as silly and convoluted as the bizarre lore from this one. Oh god, right? I get what you’re saying. You know what I mean? You’re saying I’m having a hard time expressing how I feel about it
Craig: Yeah, I get really hard. It’s not good. Like like you got to go into it It’s a it’s bad. Like it’s a bad movie, but I think it just Manages to reach so bad.
It’s good. Like for sure There are parts of this movie that are really funny that that made me laugh out loud and it’s, it’s so silly and so ridiculous and like you talk about that The backstory of it. It’s so stupid, but
Todd: the backstory does feel like it was written by 13 year olds.
Craig: Oh my God. Well, and the whole thing, I mean, the whole story is so there’s so little to it.
Right. The, the main character is this woman cop. And in the beginning, she’s sitting out in front of this factory with her partner, who is also her romantic partner.
Clip: We were right to move in together. And, now that you mention it, maybe we should get married. Look, I got nothing against marriage. Just that, you know, we should get married when we’re ready to have kids, you know?
Do you want kids? I mean, cause we never really talked about it or anything.
Craig: Yeah,
Clip: sure, someday,
Craig: you know. And she confesses that she’s pregnant. Yay, they’re gonna have a baby, but they’re on a stakeout. And, as soon as
Todd: That was clever. They’re having this, almost like this romantic talk there. It’s funny too, the way it’s shot.
It’s shot over each other’s shoulder, but they’re each looking at the camera in close up when they’re talking to each other. I think Witchboard did this. I can’t remember which other movie we saw that, where I thought that was really But then, you know, they’re embracing, and it’s like, Oh, I’m pregnant, oh, I’m gonna be a father, And it’s like, you shouldn’t have come out here tonight.
And, you know, and she’s like, That’s okay, you got your piece? Yeah, I do too. Alright, let’s do this. That was funny. That was funny.
Craig: And well, and then this car comes racing around the corner and for a second, her partner guy, like pretends that they’re making a deal, like an arms deal or a drug deal. I don’t remember.
It doesn’t matter. But as soon as he says, yeah, now you’re busted. You’re under arrest. The bad guys pull out guns and start shooting and shoot him dead.
That was.
Todd: Yeah, dark and quick, and also the most inept cops you can possibly imagine. He pulls out his gun and says, freeze, while the criminals who are, I don’t know, 12 inches away from him are both holding guns. It’s pretty stupid.
Craig: They have a little shootout, and I, does she shoot one of them? I think she shoots one of them.
It’s such a little shootout.
Todd: She shoots one of them as he’s running away, and then proceeds to kneel down very dramatically over the body. Oh
Clip: my god, no! No!
Craig: But, but not call anybody. No! Cause that would, that would make far too much sense. So instead, she just left him. Yeah, she leaves him there on the ground in an alley.
For dead. And then chases this bad guy with a gun into an old toy factory. Where the rest of the movie takes place. Oh, maddeningly. Okay. And it’s just, like, stacks of boxes and, like, chain link fences. Like,
Todd: it’s cheap. It’s a cheap and boring location. Oh, my God. But this is very typical for these productions.
I mean, you find your one location or your three sets that you can use and just move the boxes around and make it look like a slightly different aisle or whatever, you know? Uh huh. It’s lit like a TV movie. Lots of blues, like, like blues and shadows
Craig: in hallways and stuff. It needs more shadow. It needs more grit.
That’s where I would say that, that, that is somewhat charming to me. These feel like those late night movies. They, like you said, they were, many of them were like this low budget, cheap sets. So I’m kind of getting into it at this point. I made a huge mistake of. Skipping the actual beginning, which is a dream sequence,
Todd: which is
Craig: weird.
Todd: Oh my God, this dream sequence. How convoluted is this movie? They’ve got what could be a dream sequence out of Nightmare on Elm Street visually, except the cheaper version. Cheap, yeah. Very cheap version. It looks like, again, like the high school put it together with their, with their theme. theater flats, but it’s the, the woman, uh, what was her name?
Judith. Sitting in a chair, two boys in front of her who were playing war with cards, you know, the, where you, where you’d flip over a card. The boys are facing each other and then surrounding them are clocks, like tall grandfather clocks, smaller clocks. There’s even a giant pendulum swinging behind her on the wall.
gossamer curtains. Oh god. Oh, they tried
Craig: well and the and like the camera is doing all these angles like it’s it’s not just shooting them straight on it’s like You know tilted 15 degrees or whatever Oh my god, it’s so silly and they’re just sitting and like the whole thing is one is blonde. They’re the same age.
They’re both, I would say, I don’t know, eight, nine, something like that. One is blonde and the other is brunette. And then I don’t remember if this is revealed here. We come back to the stream sequence a couple of times and it’s always the same. Um, but at some point you realize that the dark haired boy also has these, you know, Unnatural eyes like these green kind of demon eyes and he’s also got like claws instead of regular fingernails It’s super heavy handed and they’re playing war but they’re like drawing every time like yeah Or or one wins and then the other wins and then the other wins and then it’s it’s very Kind of even God, it’s like, what could it mean?
What could it be? Well, we’re just going to have to watch and find out. I suppose we’re just going to have to watch and find out now this is part. I’m not sure if I remember. Okay. So they go, there’s a guard in there and stuff. He’s like this fat, this fat guy. And he calls for chicken, which brings the chicken delivery boy eventually.
And that’s it.
Todd: That’s
Craig: everybody. That’s all our people.
Todd: Except for the demon, right? The chicken guy, who at first I thought must be his son or related to him. I guess he’s just a good friend. Cause he asked to get him on the phone. He just delivers chicken to him every night. That must be it. And there’s a bunch of dumb bi play with the boy.
Unrealistic dumb bi play with the chicken guy at the chicken shack.
Clip: Mr. Wayne. Mr. Wayne? You got a cigarette in your mouth?
Craig: No. It’s your dick. This is the, this is the writing. This
Todd: is what a 13 year old thinks he could just say to his manager and get away with. Those are the jokes, folks. They don’t get any better than that.
They get worse. It’s chunky chicken? Yeah. And he asks if he wants his chicken extra crispy or chunky and he’s like, You know. Chunky. What would that be? I don’t know. I don’t want to know. That sounds awful. I don’t want to know either. I was like, I was waiting to see it. I thought that was going to be a joke of some kind and I’m kind of glad it wasn’t because I wasn’t sure what that would be.
So you’re right. He drives up and he’s got a hatchback with a giant chicken on top. And that’s apparently what they tootle around town in. The Chicken Mobile. to deliver chicken to people. He pulls in, and you’re right. We’re inside the warehouse, and these are gonna be our people. And what happens is that the woman, in this very long, drawn out, god awful action sequences, is chasing after the bad guys.
And there’s the really, really mean guy. And I don’t remember what Oh, Lincoln.
Craig: Yeah.
Todd: He’s the utterly crazy one. And then there’s the one that she’d actually shot, the blonde, the white haired guy. And he is crawling after Lincoln, and Lincoln’s like, Oh, fuck you, man. He kicks him down the stairs. Lincoln’s not having it.
So Lincoln runs upstairs, and this poor guy is just crawling across the floor. And then he bleeds. Yeah. On a glowing spot on the floor that is cut in what we later see is the shape of a pentacle? Star? It’s not even that, it’s just a star. I think it’s, I
Craig: think it’s a pentagram, but There’s no circle. Right, well, yeah, I think there is, cause Later there’s a circle.
Cause the baby draws it. Exactly, that’s what I was gonna say. Cause these bad toys come to life. Does the body, like, disappear? I don’t remember. His body? Yeah, I don’t remember. He bleeds into the floor and then these bad toys come alive. This is hilarious. This is what I love about this movie. These bad toys.
Now, it’s very much in the vein of like Puppet Master or any of, or Ghoulies or even Troll.
Todd: Yeah.
Craig: Right, right. But these, I love the design of them, but what’s hilarious to me is that they are very clearly just hand puppets. Or just toys that somebody is holding from behind and shaking. Yes.
Todd: Like,
Craig: at their worst.
They very, make minimal, minimal effort to make these things look at all real or alive. Like it’s just a puppet on somebody’s hand or somebody holding a doll around a corner and shaking it as it’s supposed to be talking. And I think it’s kind
Todd: of hilarious. It’s hilarious. And that’s, that’s the thing. Part of the charm of the movie, but except for Baby Oopsy.
Well, there are some, there,
Craig: there are some really tight close ups of like their faces and stuff. But anytime you see them in their entirety in the shot, it looks not great. There are some close ups, like the baby, the bear gets some scary close ups and stuff. Yeah, but what were you gonna say? Sorry to interrupt.
Todd: Well, I was gonna say I appreciated the effort given to Baby Oopsy. Baby Oopsy is a very rudimentary animatronic. It’s almost like a ventriloquist dummy with where just its jaw kind of comes down. But then you can tell there are like two wires somewhere in there that are only there to pull him up into an evil grin.
Which it does almost painstakingly at times. Ugh, and pull, and pull his um, his brow down into a, you know, an angry look. Baby Oopsy is kind of the Chucky wannabe of the group. This, that’s what makes this a little different from Puppet Master. Actually what I really liked and what I thought what kind of Upped Puppet Master’s game just a little bit is the fact that none of those dolls talked.
They were a little mysterious, right? They were all marionettes made out of wood and different things like that. Here, they growl, and they laugh, and they chuckle, and Baby Oopsie has a bunch of lame dialogue. And that Oh my god.
Craig: See, I think it, okay, in terms of actual quality and fear factor, yeah, it takes it way down.
That’s what I meant. In terms of camp and humor, I think it elevates it. Through the roof, yeah. I think that it’s, I, yeah, I think that, Baby Upsy’s the only one that talks. The others vocalize, but they don’t actually talk. But he’s like a wisecrackin foul mouthed baby. And this, aside from the fact that they’ve made its face look ugly, like, no kid would ever want to play with this doll, it really does look just like a generic baby doll.
And so for it to be so foul mouthed When the guard first sees him, the baby goes,
Clip: Hi, you fat fuck. I’m baby oopsie daisy. You lord ass. Will you be my special friend?
Craig: What the hell?
Clip: I can walk. I can talk. I can even shit my pants. Can you shit your pants?
Craig: And when I saw that, I remembered why my sister and I liked it. We thought. That was hilarious. When you were 13. I could walk, I could talk, I could even shit in my pants! Oh my god. I know! It was so funny. And not even the lines are that funny, but just the delivery. The voice coming from this little baby doll.
I still, I laughed out loud when I heard it again. I completely forgot about it.
Todd: Glad that was able to rekindle some childhood memories for you guys. Yeah, well they killed, they killed Jesse and, and that’s pretty gross. I mean, you know, one of them is, uh, Wait, who’s Jesse? Which one’s Jesse? The guy, the, the, with the white hair.
Yeah, Lincoln, Lincoln and Jesse were the, the two people. And Jesse’s the one who falls down, the blood, the toys come to life, and then they kill him. There’s, one of them is, uh, is, um, a jack in the box. I liked this one. Did you? I
Craig: don’t know if I don’t know if this is a hot take. I certainly didn’t read it anywhere else, but I didn’t do a lot of research either.
I was watching this thinking, I wonder if the designers on Krampus were inspired by this movie. Oh, you could hardly not be. Pretty similar. They are. The, uh, the jack o lantern that’s evil. I mean, they even kind of look alike. Yeah, you’re right. The bear, even the baby doll, that angel’s kind of like a baby doll with wings.
True. I mean, all of these things are. Very common childhood, generic childhood toys, too, so
Todd: Yeah, there’s only certain ways you can take it, but
Craig: It could be a coincidence, but I would be a little bit surprised if it wasn’t a complete
Todd: coincidence. Well, what I liked was that the Jack in the Box He would pop out, and he was a, he was a, you know, a nasty looking clown with very sharp fangs and a huge head.
But then, he had a tail to him. He was almost like one end of a snake. And he had a tail to him that was holding a rattle. A literal rattle, like a baby rattle. Eventually, that gets severed. And so we, I mean, you know, the fact that it’s not just confined to this box was kind of cute, actually. I, you know, you expect this thing to be bouncing around inside of a box, but it, it wasn’t, it was like a creature inside the box and, and it’s got big sharp teeth.
And it, it, it, Leaps on this guy and just takes a huge chunks out of his cheek and the bear leaps on this guy And you know actually for a low budget movie. This wasn’t half bad. No, it’s pretty good. The bear like bites his fingers off, right? Yeah, it was I mean look we’re still heads and shoulders above the uninvited With the demon cat.
Remember the demon cat on the boat? That one where this movie wasn’t even trying to be good like that movie was. So uh,
Craig: The blood. Oh. And, and the baby draws the pentagram around that spot in the floor. And then the blood from this dead guy. brings this kid. Now it’s the dark haired kid from the lady’s dream.
But now he talks and he talks in this weird man voice, like this weird, I can’t describe it. It’s it’s like they put it through some kind of, they put it through some kind of filter or something. It’s, It’s odd. It’s, it’s not natural sounding. Thanks
Clip: for
Craig: coming.
Clip: I’ve been sleeping for a long time, waiting for someone just like you to wake me.
We’re going to have a lot of fun here tonight, friend. We’re going to raise hell.
Craig: And then a lot goes on. I don’t even, you know, it’s so ridiculous. The other people, okay, so like, Mark the chicken guy and the guard are in one room, and then Judith and Lincoln, they’ve had a fight and she’s got him handcuffed, but they’re like locked in a storage room or something.
For reasons I
Todd: don’t understand, she decided that once she cornered him in that room, that she was gonna put the cuffs on him and just sit there for a while.
Craig: I think they’re locked in, but I don’t know why, like, I don’t know if the door just closed behind them or what, but they can’t get out, but they make a bunch of noise, And, and then the guard and the other guy come looking for her.
And this is all just the toys, you know, menacing and
Todd: attacking. And at one point after they’ve been menaced by the toys a bit, I think they all kind of end up back in that room. And I guess they’re locked in again because they can’t get out or they don’t think they can get out because of the. The toys out there, and then Lincoln gets that animated 80s electricity all over him and transforms into that boy, Demon, which says some cryptic things to Judith, taunts them some more, and then turns back into Lincoln.
Craig: Yeah, that’s right, Lincoln is possessed, and he says I need your bodies, I need flesh and blood. I don’t remember when it comes, like, I, I know that, you know, the, uh, they kill the guard, the baby kills the guard, and they, like, drag it away, because they have to, it’s very Hellraiser, they have to, like, bleed people on this.
So that the demon can come back fully before he goes into her baby. I don’t know. And, and like the baby is dragging the guards. Like you’re heavy. You Moby dick. The baby’s lines cracked
Todd: me. Yeah. Suddenly it’s like people under the stairs, the vent opens up and this. Kind of disheveled dirty girl comes sliding out of it.
I was watching you. I What’s happening? Well, I’ve been here for a couple days. Oh, you’re a runaway, huh? You could say that All right So now at least we have one more person because there wouldn’t be a high enough. It doesn’t even make sense No, I didn’t even think about it. She’s like, I’ve been
Craig: here a couple days.
The toys are evil bitch. They just woke up They just woke up Yeah I don’t know what
Todd: you’ve been seeing up to this point, but nothing cuz it just
Craig: happened.
Todd: I didn’t understand that either because later In a complete almost non sequitur. There are these three girls Spirits who are riding tricycles with, and they’re wearing old style gas masks on their faces?
But they’re not real, because they disappear. But they’re still scared of them. And the girl sees them and is like, Oh yeah, no, don’t worry, I know they’re not real, I’ve seen them before. So, is this place, when it’s not full on, you know, toys coming to life, is it still just vaguely haunted? Maybe? Ah. We’re not really meant to pick this apart.
Well,
Craig: we get the backstory, but I, I felt like the backstory I don’t remember when we’d get it. Maybe it’s near the very end.
Todd: No, what happens is, somehow Judith gets knocked out. So they’re in a toy factory, or a toy warehouse, or something. While Anne and Mark are crawling around in the vents trying to find their way to the security room, Anne is back there with Lincoln, and Anne sees a dollhouse, and starts staring in the window, and pretty soon she finds herself inside the dollhouse.
And that is when we get the long ass convoluted backstory. And oh boy is it a joy. It’s long! It’s like, it’s like a quarter of the movie length, this backstory. And it needs to be, because it doesn’t make any sense. And he talks so much. This, when he appears, at this point, is he still just appearing to her as the boy?
Yeah, he says. I can appear in any way I want. And then changes into a demon and then changes into something else. And then finally down to, Oh, like, yeah. The, uh, her husband’s like dead gross body. Yeah. And then back to the boy. But this is the form I like the best.
Craig: Right. He, uh, yeah. He says he needs a body.
He says that animating, okay, so God. I guess it just so happens that today was the day that it’s been 66 years and he was finally had enough energy to animate the toys. And then he tells the back story, which is a whole flashback and is pretty interesting. Awesome. I’m not gonna lie. It shows that it’s like Halloween 1925 and this woman in this dark room is in labor and there’s a bit like a dreamcatcher pentagram hanging behind her.
And that’s how we know it’s evil, by the way. This old woman delivers a demon baby, and it’s like this big
Todd: demon. It looks like a little demon. I loved it. But a slimy demon, like you know, it gave birth, it came out of the birth canal. It’s a little wet, it’s a little slimy. You recognize the woman, right? I wasn’t paying that close attention.
Oh, God. Pat Crawford Brown. Probably, she’s been in a million things. But, I especially remember her as the old stuck up lady in Elvira. Elvira, Mistress of the Dark.
Craig: Oh, yes, yes. I did
Todd: recognize her. You know,
Craig: I don’t
Todd: know if we said this when we were watching that movie. And I don’t know if I knew this when we did that episode.
She started her acting career at 60. I think I knew that. She retired from teaching English and started her acting career and then was in like 200 things before she died. All over television and movies and things like you saw her everywhere. This was actually one of her very first movie roles. Right after Elvira, Mistress of the Dark.
She was in a lot of TV.
Craig: I did. I did recognize her. She’s, she’s very familiar. Yeah. Any horror fans, if you saw her, you would recognize her. Yeah, for sure. Though she didn’t just do horror, she did lots of stuff. She did comedy and stuff too. She was just the old lady in a ton of movies. Yeah. Mm hmm. Little old lady, cute.
But anyway, so they’re like, oh, the baby’s dead, I guess we’ll have to try again. But then, it’s Halloween, so some trick or treaters come. And they’re like, the trick or treaters are like, trick or treat! And the doctor’s like, hold on a second. I got something better than candy. And he goes and he wraps up the dead demon baby.
And he’s like, it’s like a seed. You have to plant it or something like that. And then it will
Todd: grow. And they’re like, thanks, sir.
Craig: They run off like they
Todd: understood everything he said.
Craig: Oh my God. It’s so hilarious. Right. And so then they like go out, I don’t know where they go. I think they were
Todd: at a construction site.
Craig: Yeah. Yeah, that’s right. The factory is probably being built or whatever. And. They open it up and they’re like, ah, and they throw it. And I guess that’s just where it stays in a hole. And now 66 years later, he’s back and I don’t, I, I, gosh, there’s so much great, great dialogue in this, but he says something to her.
He says something to her about writing shotgun down the old birth canal. Yeah.
Clip: Even now I’m taking care of your friends in the air conditioning shafts. Yeah. No. Then I’ll come for you. Then we can do the nasty.
Craig: And then we can do the nasty. And he says it multiple times. The nasty. That was the other thing that my sister and I thought was so funny.
Like who says that other than like 11 year old
Todd: boys, Satan, Satan, do the nasty. When Satan refers to sex, he’s gonna say, Do the nasty.
Craig: He keeps saying it. Oh, it’s so funny. He talk he talks about how they’re gonna do the nasty like two or three times. And then we can do the nasty. And then he’s like, but don’t worry then, I’ll, you know, I’ll speed up the pregnancy or whatever and you’ll be a mother by
Todd: Sunrise.
Yeah. So this is, this is the back, this is, this is somehow supposed to explain why we’re here and why all this shit’s going on. God,
Craig: it doesn’t make any sense. But it’s still pretty funny. Okay. So Mark and this mystery girl. Oh, by the way, also from Elvira. Oh, that’s right. She, yes. I, I looked her up too. She was, um, the cute, I don’t know, the cute young girl who, uh, was enamored with, uh, Elvira.
Yeah. It was, yeah. I remember her. She ended her acting career with this movie. I
Todd: wonder
Craig: why. I was going to, yeah, I was going to say she didn’t do. Yeah. Oh my gosh, but yeah, they’re crawling around in the ventilation system for some
Todd: reason? I don’t They’re looking for I don’t understand why they can’t just break the door down or something like that, or break the window.
I don’t know. They can’t get out the door, apparently. Or they think I think what they think is if they go out that door, the toys or the girls are going to attack them. So if they go to the security room, they’ll be safe. So they go down to the security room, but they’re pursued through the ventilation shafts by these toys.
You’ve got to just imagine that these toys can f Including this robot that just rolls around like a tank can somehow roll its way up the wall and into the ventilation shaft, too. And that’s where this movie, I mean, you know, again, it’s just, it’s just silly. This toy can shoot lasers. Mm hmm. And it shoots two lasers at you and you’re dead.
But inside this ventilation shaft where it’s got a straight shot a foot away from this kid somehow it misses him and Then they kind of get out and then they kind of kick it over and kick it away and anyway It’s just it’s hard to take it seriously Like we said, there’s like no suspense here because you can’t really believe anything that’s happening So they fall into the security room The doll and that robot show up at the top of the shaft and look down at them and start shooting at them, missing completely.
Doll, ha ha ha, cackling. At some point, he gets some hairspray that happens to be sitting on Was he using it for his beard or something? I don’t know. Hairspray that’s sitting on the console and his lighter and does a flamethrower action onto those guys. And the doll says,
Craig: Hey, you f ed up my makeup!
Cackling. I was clearly amused because I wrote all these lines down. Yeah,
Todd: I’m glad
Craig: you did. I’m glad
Todd: you did.
Craig: I have a whole list of things that happened, but like, I don’t even remember because they’re so inconsequential. Like, the girl gets killed, she shows, she’s only there for like five minutes. And then she’s dead.
Yeah,
Todd: that shocked me. And the baby kills her in kind of a brutal way. Stabs her in the eyes with her, with it’s Cause they come back, right? I guess they come back. And the baby leaps down on her and it grabs a pen and stabs her in both eyes with the pen and she ends up dead. And then that Jack in the Box thing ends up there and I think it bites her face too.
But then the guy manages to wrestle it away from her and tear off, I think it’s the back part of its limb. I think he blows its head off. Well, eventually he does, yeah. But then it’s crawling around, and then he stomps on it, and all this green goo comes out, and Ugh. The thing I was thinking is, why are they farting around here in the security room?
The minute they came out of that shaft, why didn’t they just open the door and leave? But yeah, so he ends up doing just that. They get a gun. I think the guy in there had a rifle. A double barreled rifle is what he picks up. Nowhere in the rest of this movie is this rifle going to act like a double barreled rifle, where once you shoot two rounds out of it, you’ve got to open it up and put the shells back in.
They can just shoot as much as he wants out of this rifle without loading it. He runs out into the place with all of the boxes, and I guess looking for an exit.
Craig: Yeah, that’s the thing, like, there’s a bunch going on, I don’t know, like, The blonde girl from the Playboy that we didn’t talk about before, The fat guard was looking at a Playboy before, and he showed it to Mark.
Todd: And Mark, like, sniffs the centerfold, that was hilarious. He’s like, what do you think of that? And Mark picks it up, he’s like, Oh yeah, that’s awful.
Craig: What? I don’t, that’s, I don’t wanna, I don’t want him to know.
So she appears to him and strips off her dress, and then nothing else happens. She just disappears or something.
Todd: Yeah, she just disappears. He tells himself they’re not real. And so apparently if you just tell yourself it’s not real, they go away. Until Lincoln pops out. Well, some
Craig: things are and some things aren’t, right?
She’s not real, the blonde girls in the gas masks aren’t real, they can’t hurt you, but the toys certainly are.
Todd: It begs a bunch of questions, like, what are they, what is going on here? This demon, what can it do, what can’t it? Is it just toying with him? Why is it sending these, like, spirits to just mess around?
Like, what, what’s the point? I don’t get it. It’s just probably just demons. They want to play. I guess. That’s what ghosts do. And then, but then Lincoln springs out. Like, he has gotten himself unhandcuffed and, uh, is now downstairs and leaps out at him and he’s gonna blow him away too. But then, in the nick of time, Judith shoots him in the head from behind, and now it’s just the two of them trying to escape the dolls.
Craig: The evil boy who is now sitting on the Yeah, he’s just sitting on the pentagram, and out of nowhere, this little toy soldier comes to life. And you see him come to life, and then he walks away. And then you don’t see him again for a little while. They shoot the baby, but, but then other toys, not just the, cause most of the, like, main bad toys are, have been blown up or something at this point, so other toys start to come to life.
I’m just meaning they start to shake. Right. Um. Mark shoots the robot. There’s a whole sequence. And then they start shooting, like. Yeah. There’s a whole thing of them shooting the toys, and, but then, the bear, I guess, the It’s still alive and grows to full size. And at this point is a man in a bear suit chasing Mark around, which I really, really
Todd: enjoy.
That was a good day. I like that bit a lot. First is chasing Judith and then it’s chasing Mark. It’s, it’s really fun. Well, and then they end up trapped in a room or one of them does. I can’t remember who it is. It must be Mark. No, it’s Judith because what does she do? She says a prayer or something. I don’t remember how she met.
Oh. The soldier opens the door. And by the way, that soldier? Best special effects in the whole movie. It was stop motion and it was smooth as hell stop motion. It looks good. Yeah, really good. I could not believe that amount of money and time was put into this movie. It’s nowhere else but in this stop motion character.
It almost feels like a different crew worked on that, which is probably true. That thing opens the door, so we know that it’s friendly. But then, she gets out, and then the bear starts running after Mark, because there’s a confrontation, right, at the pentagram, where the devil kid is there. And he’s telling them, you’re, you’re, nothing’s gonna happen, you know, you’re too late.
And that, I think, is when he tells her that he’s going to possess the child and her body, correct? Okay,
Craig: wait, all right. The dead boyfriend. Shows up again. Oh yeah. And he’s all disgusting and like, he like, tears his own eyes out
Todd: or something? Yeah, yeah, she was about to get out. Yeah, she runs toward the exit.
And he steps in front of her and says, You know I only have eyes for you. Oh my god. And while she just stands there and screams, he pulls his eyes out and that causes her to faint.
Craig: Right, and so then he drags her to the pentagram and ties her up, and Mark is leaving, but he hears her crying out for help.
And so, the bear chases him away. Yeah. It’s at this point that the kid turns into a man sized, like a tall, lean, man sized demon. Almost like a Halloween costume demon, but better. Like with actual makeup and prosthetics, not just A mask, but, but it’s horns and really kind of, yeah, and he says, first I’m going to crawl on top of you and do the nasty, then I’ll be inside your womb, I’ll eat the soul of your baby,
Todd: and then I’ll crawl into its shell of its body, and then I will speed up the birth.
The camera’s on. Ugh.
Craig: It
Todd: goes
Craig: on for a long time. Doesn’t he talk forever?
Todd: He gets very detailed about it. Like, you know, we need to know exactly how this process is going to, is going to work from step one to step 20 because he tells us in very clinical fashion. It’s
Craig: really long. And then he licks her. Then he’s laying on top of her and licking her, like licking her face.
And then the toy soldier shows up and. The demon freaks out. He jumps off of her and goes, you know, that’s impossible. And then it cuts back to outside where Mark kills the giant bear with the car. And then for no good reason, blows the car up. Oh my God. Why did he? Shoots the gas tank. I, I, for no reason, just so that they could have an explosion.
That’s exactly why he did it. My God. Oh. And the soldier then cuts. Judith Free, and then turns into the blonde kid from her dream. Um, but he’s still in a soldier’s outfit. And then these two kids, the demon turns back into the smaller kid, and these two kids just wrassle. They just have a play fight. For a while.
Just a play fight. It is so funny. It’s hilarious, but then it’s like, is it like flashing back and forth between that and like the dream? Like they’re playing war in the dream.
Todd: The demon kid throws down a king of clubs and then the other kid throws down ace of hearts and that beats him. No. And at that point he has kicked him over onto the sword, which the demon writhes for a little while and then completely dissolves and vanishes.
And then the kid faces the mother, and for her benefit and all of our benefit, goes into great detail about what just happened.
Craig: I started writing it down. Okay, so here’s how far I got. He starts out saying, It’s okay now, Mom. We won. I’m your son. The demon’s gone back to hell. But then it goes on for like another minute and a half.
Todd: Yes, we explained as if we didn’t get it by now. I was, I’m your son. We played war, blah, blah, blah. I turned into a soldier. Like, yeah, we saw that.
Craig: It’s okay. Yeah. Play it, please play it in its entirety because I couldn’t believe, like, I was just watching it and it just kept going on and on and I couldn’t believe it.
I thought it was so
Todd: funny. It felt like this was written for like the lowest common denominator. And, and maybe at some point they were like, you know what? This movie, like, no one’s gonna understand this shit unless we just literally lay it all out. He went a little overboard. You know what? The writer of this movie is David S.
Goyer. The guy is a great writer. This was, like, only the third screenplay he ever did. But not only did he go on, he went on to do Dark City, one of my favorite movies. Dark City, you remember that one? He wrote Blade. He wrote all three Blades, and Batman Begins.
Craig: Oh, yeah. The
Todd: Dark Knight. Wrote the screenplay for Man of Steel.
So this guy, I mean, he cut his teeth on this thing, but he definitely learned a lot between 1992 and 1998.
Craig: Yeah, I just feel like it’s, it’s, it’s a sign of the time. Like, you know, this is just, they’re cranking out these movies. They’re cranking out these scripts. They’re not,
Todd: yeah,
Craig: this was an assignment for money.
They’re exactly like a Corman production and they’re, they’re not spending a lot of time on rewrites and, you know, here you go, shoot it, let’s get it, let’s get it out here and that’s fine. Yeah. Okay. So the, the, the. The boy turns back into the toy soldier. I don’t know. I feel like there’s Mark and the woman reunite and she says something stupid.
I don’t remember what it was. And then the kid, like, does the guy say something like, who’s that about the kid or about the toy soldier? He said, like, she’s holding the toy soldier. He’s like, what’s that? And she’s like, it’s my son or something.
She explains it again. Oh, it’s hilarious. And yeah, so then the toy soldier waves goodbye to them and disappears. Wow. That’s the end. Wow. I don’t know. Like when I started watching it yesterday, I was watching the first half hour or so and I’m like, Oh God, this is bad. Now I feel bad for recommending it.
Cause I, you know, Todd’s not going to like it. It’s so stupid. And then the further I got into it. And your nostalgia kicked in. The sillier it got. Your nostalgia kicked in. Well, I just started to appreciate it more. Look, I enjoy the silliness. And that’s what I told you. I said, I, this week, I want to do something that I know is stupid and silly.
I want it to just be goofy and fun to talk about. And I think it was. It’s not one of the best worst movies we’ve seen. No, sadly. But I still think that there are parts of it That are pretty darn funny, and it’s, it’s relatively short, it’s under an hour and a half. Yeah. Again, like you said, back, back in our day when we were kids, our, our Options were relatively limited in terms of what we could watch at any given moment.
So, if this happened to be on, we might be drawn to it because there was really nothing else. Now, people have everything at their fingertips. So, I don’t know how people would really stumble across it, but I don’t think it’s a waste of time. I think it’s funny.
Todd: Yeah, there’s really no place for a movie like this nowadays.
Like, you know, because like you said, it’s a product of its time. Mm hmm. It was created mostly for, for the video market or to sell on cable and be entertaining as well. And, you know, we just did, we just did a whole series of Roger Corman films and gushed over that guy and, and, and how he has a whole great body of work devoted to that kind of thing.
Charles Band has always been kind of the low rent Roger Corman, I think, but Still, there’s been a lot of entertaining stuff and this certainly falls under that category and it’s entertaining. We did the seed people, the seed people came out. It was either this year or the year after also by the same director, Peter Mnookin, and I would put that in the same category, except I thought seed people.
Was way more fun than this one. It was even wackier, but it was also a little more expansive. Like it took place in multiple locations and had a few more characters in it. And had a little more of a quote unquote down to earth concept as much as, you know, you could be with mutant alien seeds that sprout on the planet.
Craig: I only have the vaguest recollection of that. You don’t remember? I vaguely, I vaguely remember. I feel like I remember a giant. of a door at somebody. You don’t remember
Todd: the giant seed plant like opening up and like splooging all over the
Craig: guy walking outside? I vaguely remember. I texted you about 10 hours ago.
I assume you didn’t get it. Um, it was about, The sequel to this movie last night when I was watching this I was watching it on a free streaming service to be but it’s streaming free in a lot of places and you know when you’re watching a streaming service if you just You know, whatever you’re watching is over something else will come on and What came on right after this was doll man versus the demonic toys and you watched it I watched the whole thing because it’s, it’s, well, first it’s only an hour long.
Oh, and it is, if you think this movie is wacky, oh my God. In fact, I would almost say just watch the sequel. It is. Wild, wild. It’s only an hour long. And part of the reason that it’s wild is because it’s technically a sequel to three different movies. It’s a sequel to this. It’s a sequel to doll man, and it’s a sequel to another, one of these like Charles band movies.
And of course you’ve got the demonic toys and Judith comes back. But then you’ve got Dollman, who, Oh my God. The funny thing is, the movie, the movie is only an hour long, and a big chunk of that is huge recaps of all three movies. I see. But the recaps of the other two, Dollman, Dude. I wasn’t, I’m not sure if I didn’t catch it.
I think, I think he comes from a different planet. Like this dystopian planet where his arch nemesis is just like a head on a flying saucer that flies around.
Todd: It’s out there. I started to watch Dollman a long time ago and I think I might have turned it off about twenty minutes in and said I’m not drunk enough.
To continue watching this movie. It looks bad. Yeah, like
Craig: I think he gets shrunk or I don’t know Maybe he comes to earth and he’s just small because he’s an alien I don’t know, but he’s tall that’s why they call him doll man because he’s only a foot tall Okay, so then the third movie I don’t remember what it was called but in it for some reason There’s a one foot tall nurse.
Why is she one foot tall? I don’t know. Why is she still a nurse, even though she’s one foot tall and like, she just lives on her kitchen counter, but she still wears a nurse’s uniform. I don’t know.
Todd: Don’t worry about it.
Craig: One of the fun parts was getting the recaps of all three of these movies because I felt like oh I don’t have to watch that now I just got to see all of the good parts like they just showed me all of the best part great idea and and then they intertwine, you know There is a plot to this movie like the cop lady from demonic toys and doll man and the nurse All work together to fight the demonic toys.
And at first, like, I, if you don’t want to hear spoilers, turn it off now, but who cares, at some point Judith gets killed. And so, which I thought was crazy. Cause this is only supposed to be a year after demonic toys. I’m like, she just had a baby. She shouldn’t be putting herself in these situations, but once she’s killed, it’s just the doll man and the one foot tall nurse against the demonic toys.
So now. The demonic, they’re all the same size. Yes. They do a lot of forced perspective, but there are also full human size versions of all of the demonic interesting. And the plot is crazy. And in this one, baby oopsie needs to. Have sex with the one foot tall nurse. He’s gonna do the nasty with her to bring the master back.
Lots of talk about doing the nasty. Doing the nasty, they talk about it some more. Oh my gosh. The movie is bonkers. Absolutely bonkers. And it’s only an hour long. Maybe just watch that.
Todd: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. I, yeah, I wouldn’t I can’t really recommend this movie unless you just want to watch an up all night movie.
You know, that’s exactly what this is. And, you know, I would be laying on my sofa, I would have had some snack or something like that, tucked under the covers, and probably fallen asleep by the time the movie was over. But, trying to stay up for Ronda Shearer to pop in every now and then, and Cracker jokes.
That’s what it is. You want to hear
Craig: one more sad thing?
Todd: Oh, no.
Craig: Guess what came on after?
Todd: Dollman versus demonic toys. Puppet master versus demonic toys. And you had nothing better to do.
Craig: It was re it was getting really late, but I did watch the first half of it. It is. Awful. It is awful. It is literally a made for tv Christmas special about the demonic toys in Puppet Master. I’m not kidding.
Christmas makes sense. They’re toys.
Todd: It stars Corey Feldman. What? We’re talking about the older, more depressing Corey Feldman.
Craig: Oh, it’s really bad. Yeah, I think this came out in 2003, and they have him playing like a mad scientist, but the only thing that they do is they take gray stage makeup and spike his hair up with it, and, and put black framed glasses on him, and he’s kind of this mad scientist kind of character.
The acting throughout is terrible. The production quality is awful. The redesigns of the demonic toys are so stupid and bad. Oh boy. I couldn’t watch the whole thing. I had to turn it off. I felt bad for Corey
Todd: Feldman. There’s a point, right, where it’s like, ugh, if you’re gonna make some schlock, at least put some effort into it, right?
Like, don’t phone it all in, or else it’s just sad.
Craig: Well, I think that they were, it seemed that this one was being presented as a joke. Like, we’re just goofing on this, like, we’re, this isn’t meant to be anything serious, but it just, it felt cheap and
Todd: lazy. That’s what I mean, though, is, no matter what, even if it’s a joke, like, make it a fun joke, you know, don’t make it a lame and sad.
Don’t watch that one. Stick with, so your recommendation. To go on the record, is watch Dollman vs. Demonic Toys. And then we don’t even have to do it on the show now, do we? We can say we’ve more or less covered it. I feel like you just covered it, just then. Pretty much. Two for one, folks. What a special week it is for you.
Well, thank you so much for joining us here on Two Guys in a Chainsaw. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend. You can find us online just by googling Two Guys in a Chainsaw podcast. Let us know if you’ve seen any of these movies and which one is your favorite. Make a case for the Christmas special if you want.
You can also find our Patreon at patreon. com slash chainsaw podcast. Throw five bucks there every month. That’ll get you backstage. You’ll be able to put in requests for wonderful movies like this. We have a lot of chatter going on in the back. We have Special mini sows that we put up there, mini reviews that are written, interviews, uh, Chris for Pike Book Club, uh, check that out, and we hope to see you there as well.
The best thing you can do for us is just, uh, write us a review on your favorite, uh, podcast listening service, like Apple Podcasts. Until next time, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig. With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.
We wrap up our Roger Corman tribute with the last film he directed, way back in 1990. It’s a smarter-than-you’d-imagine version of the Frankenstein story that incorporates a modern-day mad scientist, time travel, and Mary Shelley herself – not to mention an all-star cast, including Raul Julia, John Hurt, and Bridget Fonda.
We absolutely loved this film, and we loved even more this too-brief trip through Roger Corman’s illustrious career as a mentor of talent and producer of some of cinema’s most iconic films.
If you wanna check out more of the Corman films we’ve covered so far in the podcast, we have a YouTube playlist up of previous episodes here.
Episode 405, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast
Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.
Todd: And I’m Craig.
Todd: And here we are with the last of our Corman Tributes. I chose 1990’s Frankenstein Unbound. And the reason I chose this movie, it was the last movie that Roger Corman directed. Now, of course, we’ve been doing this tribute series because he died at the age of 98 this year, and what Corman had been doing from 1971 was just producing.
You know, he was mostly a producer. He did direct 56, 57 films. Oh yeah. So it’s pretty significant. Uh, he produced hundreds. And so at that point in 1971, I think he was just getting a little frustrated as a director. He said, directing is kind of hard producing. I can do in my sleep. And so. He really focused on that, but he came out of directing retirement to do this film.
And I believe it was at the urging of an editor in the business named, uh, Jay Cassidy, I think. I don’t know. You know, it’s actually, I had a hard time finding too much information about the background of this production. Me too. It’s like no interviews really with people about it. I couldn’t find any interviews with Roger Corman where he mentions it.
It just kind of came and went, which is a bit of a surprise considering The people in it. I mean, I know the cast is all star It’s John Hurt, Raul Julia, Bridget Fonda Jason Patrick is in there. This guy, Nick Brimble, I mean, that might not be a name you know, but you have seen him in so many things. He is a working actor to this day on television and movies, and was at the time he did this.
So yeah, there’s so many big names in this movie, and the movie has pretty good production value for a Corman film. Decent script, I think. Decent idea. The script is based on a 1973 film. Three novel, I believe, by the same name. And of course, it’s a playoff of Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein. Uh, the alternate title for that is Prometheus
Craig: Unbound.
Well, the alternate title is or the modern Prometheus, which she borrowed from, I think her husband, it was either her husband or Byron who had. Written something called Prometheus Unbound so like a
Todd: poem, right? Yeah, I think it was her husband. Yeah, you’re right. You’re right Yeah,
Craig: get ready for nerdy lit shit I
Todd: was expecting Now before I even sat down to watch it and I had not seen it before I texted you you texted me and You said I love this movie And I think that wasn’t facetious.
I’m not sure.
Craig: No, it wasn’t. And did you love this
Todd: movie?
Craig: Yeah. And I, I, I, I texted you that like halfway through and I was like, well, I’m going to wait to send it. I’m going to wait to send it until it’s over just that I don’t regret sending it. And I hesitated to send it to you at all. Cause sometimes I don’t want to tip you off as to whether or not I liked something, but I just couldn’t hold back for a variety of reasons.
This is my favorite of the four that we watched. Oh, yeah, and I I can’t believe I can’t believe I haven’t seen it because I don’t think anybody knows about it. I mean, I was vaguely aware of its existence. The, the, the box art, I was always intrigued by, cause it’s very Frankenstein y in that it’s, you know, human pieces stitched together, but it’s tied up on the eyes, and the eyeballs, like, eyeballs of different colors are all stitched together, and it, it really pops with color, and, like, it’s cool.
Yeah, I remember seeing it on the shelves, I think. Yeah, I did. But for whatever reason, I wasn’t interested, and I never hear anybody talk about it, and I haven’t read anything that I can recall about it, and it’s really, it’s, it’s hard to find. It’s up in full on YouTube in good quality. That’s where I watched it, and the quality was great.
Todd: Yeah, like free YouTube, like just somebody uploaded it and they haven’t been ordered to take it down. And it’s been
Craig: there. I checked it’s been there for years. So yeah, hopefully it won’t get taken down because you should watch it If you haven’t seen it, it’s great
Todd: You know, of course it reminded me a lot of gothic, you know And I think I appreciated this movie a lot more having seen gothic Months ago we did gothic maybe last year.
Yeah last fall Yeah, and that movie was a real trippy film that, uh, took us to that summer in Switzerland where, uh, Lord Byron and Mary Shelley and her husband were all getting high and batting about story ideas, and that is widely known as the birthplace for the idea, this challenge to Mary Shelley, like, you write something.
You know, you write, you write a scary story.
Craig: Well, it was a contest.
Todd: Yeah, between them all. They all, they all wrote. Yeah, but I mean like, obviously like, we don’t remember anybody else’s. But that was the challenge, right?
Craig: Yeah. To write a
Todd: scary
Craig: story. Yeah. Well, one of them was the vampire with a Y, which Inspired.
Inspired Dracula, I think. Yeah. Gosh, I don’t know, go back and listen to that episode. We talk all about it. We talk about
Todd: it we gushed over that movie and we got really deep into the history as well of these people and this time. And so What was really cool is this is a time travel movie. And it takes us back to that year, what, 1817 is.
And, and so, uh, I found it immediately intriguing because it, it mixes a little bit of history with a little bit of fantasy and a little bit of time travel, and that’s always kind of a fun mix and typical Roger Corman fare, right? Little horror, a little sci fi spectacle.
Craig: But that is. And that’s certainly a part of it, but I would say that this is very atypical of the Cormen that I’ve seen.
Because the sci fi stuff is certainly important, but almost secondary to the literary and historical drama that is unfolding before you. The reason that I loved this movie was because I knew it had something to do with Frankenstein, and I knew it had something to do with the future. So I just thought, well, it’ll be Frankenstein in the future.
That’s fine. I’m down for that. That’s not what it is at all. No. It’s a time travel movie. And that starts in 2031 where this guy, his name’s Buchanan, played by John Hurt, whose name you already mentioned, famous. I know him from the film adaptation of 1984 because I showed the trailer for it in my class.
But he’s been around doing stuff forever. The
Todd: most basic horror fan, he’s the guy who gets the chestburster in Alien. Yes,
Craig: of course,
Todd: of course, but so many other things he’s been just a very respectable British actor. I think
Craig: it’s also, it’s also structured like Frankenstein and that it starts in the present for the characters and then it flashes back.
So, and it’s the exact same thing as in the, in Frankenstein, this guy is just walking through winter tundra and he starts telling his story. It’s like, I’ll start from when the time slips. We’re just beginning. And I was like, What?
Yeah, and I was already sold because it was already opening just like Frankenstein and I’m like is this gonna be a good adaptation and As it turns out it is Before getting into too much of the detail of the plot what I was so impressed by Was I desperately want to read this novel now? Yeah, I can only imagine that the novel might be even smarter than the movie and I think the movie is smart It’s just such a clever concept to say let’s take a piece of literature that we already have that Everybody’s familiar with and we can also place that in the historical context of which it was written because that’s also interesting So we’ll kind of combine those two things and then we’ll have a time traveler from 2031 come back And be immersed in it.
Yeah. But we’re going to completely and totally respect the source material. This is one of the most faithful adaptations of Frankenstein. I was just giddy going through it like everything about the plot and characters of the story pretty much until the very, very end is straight out of the book. And as you already mentioned, you know, all the stuff that’s going on with Byron and Mary Shelley and, and Percy Shelley, all of that is very true to history.
So I just think that’s such a smart thing. To be able to take something, take a foundation that’s already there, insert something in it and make something new. I’ve never read the book or seen the movie, so I’m only kind of speculating. But when I was watching this, I was thinking, I wonder if this is kind of like Pride and Prejudice and Zombies, where it is, it is Pride and Prejudice.
There just also happened to be zombies. Laughter
Todd: Well, what I liked about it is, well, first of all, the conceit is that Mary Shelley is writing about her neighbor. So, the Frankenstein story is happening in parallel. With Shelley and her friends and their day to day drama that revolves around that, and so she’s inspired by those events to write her book, which hasn’t been written yet.
But, what I really liked about it was that John Hurt is himself a mad scientist. Right. And so, In sort of being sent back to be witness to Frankenstein that he’s totally familiar with because you know, he’s from 2031, he sees himself reflected back and so that is a major theme. I think of the movie as well, that I don’t think is really.
Treated as deeply as it could be treated, quite frankly. I thought it was
Craig: pretty
Todd: evident. I mean it was evident, but I felt like John Hurt as Buchanan was a little aloof. He pretty much operated in the past as though he was invincible. And didn’t also seem worried about Manipulating the past because he gets deeply involved with the characters.
He shows Mary Shelley a copy of her own book, you know, that she hasn’t even written yet. And so I guess we’re to believe that because he’s able to do this. I mean, this is all time travel stuff, right? Like these paradoxes and whatnot. The movie is not concerned
Craig: with paradoxes. It’s not. There are a lot of things that the movie is not concerned with.
And I was just ready. to roll with that. I was ready to roll with the fact that, uh, oh gosh, there are so many things, uh, that this
Todd: guy’s just driving his, uh, futuristic
Craig: car around, like he and he and Bridget Fonda go on a s Scenic drive in the mountains and I’m like what road is he driving on right? It’s not even like an all terrain vehicle or anything.
It’s like a sports car and I It’s ridiculous and I saw it and I’m like, this is ridiculous and I’m like, yes Craig, it is ridiculous. Look at the car they are driving in. It is ridiculous. It’s, it’s fun. Just enjoy it. And that was the Cormen part of it that I loved. And I have no idea, you know, how all of the technology and the future stuff is handed in the novel.
But all of the stuff in the beginning where they’re in the future and they’re in like these labs with all these computers and stuff. Lasers
Todd: and things, yeah. It was
Craig: so cheap. In the best way.
Todd: Yeah,
Craig: exactly. I I’m sure he had a budget for this movie. I’m sure he had probably a really big budget. I would guess.
I mean, here’s this legend coming out of retirement, not out of retirement necessarily, but he just hadn’t direct in 20 years.
Todd: And
Craig: he’s got all these stars to be fair, some of them earlier in their careers, but nonetheless, not all of them. Some of them established already. I can only imagine he had a budget.
And yet. Those set pieces, where it’s like, you know, a room just full of big panels of flashing lights, like bleep bloop bloop bleep bloop bloop bloop. Like, old school
Todd: computer. And they’re,
Craig: they’re wearing like, metallic space suits, and even when he goes outside of his house, and like, the kids are in these ridiculous, like, futuristic outfits.
It was so cheesy, in exactly the way that I wanted it to be. To be cheesy. Yeah, it was such a great. I wouldn’t even call it a throwback. This is his style. Yeah, it was so him
Todd: that I was so on board. I thought it provided a good parallel, counterpoint, whatever you want to call it to later in the movie where we see Frankenstein’s lab in all of its classic cheesy monster lab glory, you know, that is classic and fun and cheesy in its own way with What do you call them?
Jacob’s Ladder electrical pieces and big bubbling pots of red liquid that have smoke coming out of them for no apparent reason?
Craig: That comes almost directly from like the Karloff Frankenstein film, right? Exactly! So, I like how it’s paying homage to Both and like every when that happened, of course, that’s the climax basically When that happened and I saw that set piece and it almost looks exactly like the set piece from those old black and white It’s alive alive movies I was so stoked.
Oh, dude. Yeah. I don’t know. I don’t know how you want to approach this because I could just gush all day. I could gush about a lot of things.
Todd: Well, I think in retrospect to having a lot of Frankenstein movies to choose from and a lot of background and, you know, we approach this in sort of a film criticism historical context.
Like we probably see this movie. through different lens than the audience saw it in 1990. It did not do well. People thought it was kind of bad and silly. But I think that what we’re talking about is, there are these sort of silly elements, but they really work thematically. That’s an artistic choice.
Maybe it wasn’t interpreted that way back then, but I’m willing to go with that. Especially because they’re drawing these parallels. This guy, Buchanan, is a scientist who’s working on a weapon and he’s a scientist who’s working on a weapon. Again, it’s the naive scientist who thinks he’s going to save the world while really he’s doing this horrible thing.
He thinks he’s going to create this weapon that’s going to be so powerful. It’s going to end all wars and since he’s been testing it suddenly time rifts have been opening up and bad things have been going on and A time rift indeed opens up right there in front of him, and that’s what sucks him in his car.
Thank God He had his car else. I don’t know how he would have gotten around.
Craig: Yeah, Bruce Campbell style, right?
Todd: Yeah into 1817. And like I said, like, when I say he’s kind of aloof, like, once he kind of realizes where he is and what’s going on, he does have a sort of detached interest in it all. But then he starts to get involved.
I guess that a part of the novel, now, I have to admit, I have not read the novel. I’m sure you have. You have you talked about it? I taught
Craig: it last fall for the first time. That’s why we did Gothic.
Todd: A big part of the novel, apparently a part of the novel that’s not in most of the film adaptations is this trial of a woman for the murder of Victor Frankenstein’s younger brother.
And so John heard, sees what’s going on and knows this woman’s innocent. He knows that there must have been a monster involved because he’s read the book. Right, he’s read the book
Craig: And all of this is so true. Like the character names are true The only thing that’s not true is that mary shelley herself was not in the gallery Like right as you as you already said the movie posits that she’s writing this story as it unfolds now how she knows And maybe she doesn’t, I don’t know, maybe she would figure it out later, but how she knows that there’s a monster, and it wasn’t really Justine, Justine is the girl who’s on trial, who’s played by Roger Corman’s daughter.
And, I mean, it’s a tiny part, but it’s, it’s entirely true to the book. This girl was a, a very, very dear, dear family friend. And she did not kill the younger brother, Frankenstein did, excuse me. I’ll probably make that mistake again. The monster did because Frankenstein made him, brought him to life. And then it was like, ah, you’re hideous.
Get out. And like, did nothing to help him or aid him or anything or assist him. And he’s had to go off and live in the world and be terribly mistreated because he’s ugly and disgusting. And then he just comes back to Frankenstein to beg and look, I know I’m an abomination, whatever. Just make me. A companion, and I’ll leave you alone, and you’ll never hear from me again.
And then it’s all about Frankenstein’s moral dilemma, like, does he make another one or whatever, but the monster’s leverage is that he can keep coming after Frankenstein’s family, and that’s what he does. I think he kills the dad first, maybe, and then he kills the little brother, and Justine gets blamed for it, and does get hung.
In the book, just like she does in the movie. You get my drift. Yeah. It’s very close. So he’s,
Todd: so he’s a,
Craig: he’s an outside observer as a reader. But now, in this world, he’s experiencing this narrative that he already
Todd: is familiar with. And it’s so funny because he goes to this trial. He sits down right next to Mary Shelley, strikes up a conversation and makes acquaintance with her.
Forgive me, Miss
Clip: Godwin. The young girl
Todd: over there, is she the one on
Clip: trial? Yes, she’s accused of killing William Frankenstein, who was six. She lacks the physical strength necessary to commit the crime as described, so of course she’s accused of witchcraft. No. It is a travesty.
Yes, but excellent material for a book, I suppose.
Todd: And then, during the hanging, which is a pretty cool scene, you know, it’s this old fashioned classic medieval style hanging in the middle of the town square with loads of people. He runs up and grabs an axe from somebody and whacks someone in the stomach and runs up on the stage and pulls the noose off from her head and, and is like, she, she must go free.
She must go free. And I’m like, is this going to work? Of course it doesn’t. They just pull the trap and he falls down under the stage and then he gets beat up and she gets hung anyway, which I thought was actually kind of funny. How anticlimactic that ended up being this movie is filled with a bit of dark humor.
Then just events continue to unfold, despite the fact that he’s in the midst of them and he’s interfering with them.
Craig: Well, at this point he knows because he’s read Frankenstein that Mary Shelley knows what’s going on. So he needs to go find her. Well, while she’s having this Bacchanalian weekend, you know, this sex and drug fueled weekend with her boyfriend and Lord Byron, which is super sexy.
And that other movie that we watched. Yeah. That one out for more details. So he goes there and interrupts and he meets Lord Byron first. And Lord Byron is played by Jason Patrick, who this is 1990. So this has to be just a few years after lost boys, right?
Todd: Yeah. I think it was just two, three or four
Craig: years after young and stunningly gorgeous and plays Byron so well.
I have no idea what. He was going for in 1990, but from a 2020 lens, he seems very kind of sexually fluid. Like, like you can’t really get a read on him, like, but he’s mysterious and super hot with his piercing blue eyes. There’s him. And then Mary Shelley, she was Mary Godwin at this point. She and Shelly weren’t married yet, but she’s played by Bridget Fonda, who.
This has to be an early role for her. She has to be a baby in this, right? This is
Todd: like a year or two before, uh, single white female, I think.
Craig: Oh, okay. Okay.
Todd: Yeah. Because
Craig: she’s young and gorgeous. She’s great. I mean, she doesn’t have a lot to do. Actually, I’m not going to criticize it because I really don’t have any criticisms of this movie, but I feel like her portrayal of Mary Shelley could have been more dynamic because.
At 19 years old, she was such an intellectual, and such a, you know, an artist, and she’s just kind of a demure, kind of, uh Yeah,
Todd: she
Craig: just kind
Todd: of comes across as a demure, introspective, like, she’s just sitting and processing everything around her, but not saying too much, and then what she does say is very poetic.
In a lot of cases. It
Craig: is, but what I will say about her, and all of her work that I’ve seen, she is so expressive in her form. face. Like her face just tells a whole story. And God, I’m such a, I’m such a huge fan of hers. But anyway, so the, I don’t know, where did we leave off? Oh, he has to go find her. So he goes there and he’s introduced to them.
And he’s also introduced to Percy Shelley, who is played by David Hutchings. Is that his name?
Todd: Uh, Michael Hutchins. Yeah, uh, NXS.
Craig: The lead singer of NXS, and I had to look him up, and I was, I read, Oh, he was the lead singer of NXS, and I was like, I remember NXS, they were really cool. And then I read more about him, and his story is so sad.
Did you read about any of that?
Todd: No, I did not. He died young, I know that.
Craig: You know, NXS was a big hit for a second, and then, you know, the later stuff that came out just in a couple of years wasn’t really doing well. And so he wanted to move into film, and the first movie he did was NXS. Aimed at a teenage audience, but unfortunately got an R rating.
So it didn’t do well at all. And then this was his second thing. And he thought it was going to be like his big breakout, but he’s only in it for like a minute. And then when, when, when nothing was happening, he took his own life. So young and so talented. And I remember his music. I mean, that was a big part of the soundtrack of the
Todd: late eighties.
It’s true. Nineties. Yeah.
Craig: Anyway, but so he goes there. I don’t even know. Basically, he talks to them and nothing comes of it because he’s like, he’s like, you know that Justine isn’t guilty. And she’s like, yeah, I know, but I don’t need proof. So
Todd: Yeah,
Craig: so he leaves right?
Todd: Mm hmm. Yeah, is this the point cuz I didn’t I’m sorry I didn’t take any notes on this Is this the point where he meets up with Shelly and they have their little drive or is that a little later?
Craig: That well, I mean, I think it’s a little bit later What we haven’t mentioned yet is that he’s also run into Victor Frank. Yes.
Todd: Yes several times, too Played by Raul Julia in the classic Victor Frankenstein mold. Dark, tortured, aggressive, mad scientist, man.
Craig: I love Raul Julia. I love Raul Julia. Another guy who died to a presence.
Yeah. He died of a terrible stomach cancer. Immediately after filming Street Fighter? Yeah. I want to say. I think that was his last movie. I always think of him as Gomez Adams. And I think that he was an amazing Gomez Adams. But he just has this amazing charisma. He reminds me a lot of Tim Curry.
Todd: Yes.
Craig: He almost even kind Tim Curry could have done this.
Tim Curry could have done this role too. But Raul Julia is Great in it. I mean he’s arrogant and and
Todd: Well, he has that dark sexiness about him too, you know, tim curry. Yeah, it wouldn’t really have brought mystery. Yeah Yeah, that kind of classic classic Sexy leading. I
Craig: don’t remember how everything goes down, but it’s right.
I guess it’s right after shelly Excuse me, mary. Shelly says she can’t do anything. He goes back and tries to interrupt justine’s hanging is unsuccessful unsuccessful and then At some point, he follows Frankenstein to, like, a creek. And the monster is there.
Todd: Yeah. Cause he
Craig: sees the monster too.
Todd: We should
Craig: talk about the monster.
Todd: I love this monster. Actually, I did too. I thought that the makeup design was great. Obviously everyone is challenged when they do a Frankenstein story to make it as Little like the universal monster design is possible because that’s copyrighted and you can get in trouble. So, no more flatheads, no bolts coming out of the side of the neck.
You gotta be careful with your stitching and how boxy he is or whatnot. But, obviously, Frankenstein’s monster is stitched together with parts of corpses. And some movies go really all out with that. This movie, I felt, almost took a more medical take on it. The monster’s a little off because he’s I think it’s like he’s almost been bulked up with some additional stuff.
You see his neck is about as wide as his head is. It’s really, really thick. And where we would have these, you know, we have these big arteries in our neck. His are like tubes. Two or four big prominent arterial tubes that are under his skin, you know, but make up the bulk of his neck coming into his head.
And then his face is almost as though a face has been stretched over. You know, an underlying skeleton. It feels like it’s got a little more stuff in it than your average human head. It’s just a little wider. And of course it does because it’s got to accommodate whatever electrical stuff he’s got in there.
Instead of having these bolts coming out of its neck, he has these flat metal protruding contact points from his forehead and, and it just gives it a real good look and then overall, he’s just big, huge, he’s nasty looking, the eyes are are great too because they’re just like the poster. It’s, it’s an eye that where each eye has been stitched up with other eyes.
So the pupils of several different colors and he, he just makes them look creepy. I don’t know how practical that is. I don’t know why Frankenstein would need to stitch up like five different eyes to make one, but at least it gives a good look, right? Yeah, it looks great. So it’s very unique. And it looked great, and it doesn’t look like a guy in a suit, you know?
It looks like a monstrous Frankenstein like I want to see. And he’s big, and he’s bulky, and he’s strong, and he’s played by Nick Brimble, like I said before, who has been in a lot of movies. He was Little John in Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves. You remember that movie? The Kevin Costner one. I remember the movie, I don’t remember him, no.
Yeah, he has such a role in that. But this guy, this guy’s been acting forever. He’s got 145 credits. He’s in a movie, TV series right now called Grantchester. And he’s one of these people who’s done two to three to four movies a year, you know, ever since he started. And I think
Craig: he does a
Todd: great job in this role.
Craig: Well, I liked the look of it because you look at it, And it’s obviously Frankenstein, but it’s a different take on Frankenstein. The general idea is there, it’s all the parts put together, but especially the stretched back face just makes it different enough. Now, I don’t know that I would go so far as to say that it looks amazing.
Like, it’s amazing. It’s all clearly very prosthetic and even his face is pretty plastic looking. He definitely has articulation in his eyes and in his mouth, but you know, all that stuff with the stretched face is obviously prosthetic. What else would it be? But I mean, it doesn’t look amazing, but that’s, again, I find that charming.
I want it to show in. It seems a little bit well because that’s quorum in to me and you had mentioned earlier and I’m sorry to ramble But you had mentioned earlier that it didn’t do really it’s like It didn’t make a lot of money. I can completely understand how this would not Resonate with a general audience, right?
Because they don’t know what they’re getting into. And that’s not to be snobby and that’s not to condescend to anybody. It’s just, I don’t know how to put it like you and I, and anybody else who would be into Corman or whatever. would know what his style was. So we w it wouldn’t be a surprise to us. If it looks cheap, we understand why that is.
Todd: I don’t know. You understand what I’m saying. I know what you’re saying. I mean, also, I think just the movie itself, it’s Of course it’s a horror movie, but it’s not straight out. There’s so much drama. There’s so much historical kind of stuff in it. Like you said, it’s like Pride and prejudice with zombies in a way, you know, and, and so the movie doesn’t dwell on it’s not just Frankenstein’s monster hulking around and killing people and everybody running away from it.
And so when you get into a movie like modern day, Frankenstein, Frankenstein, Unbound, whatever, you’re probably as a general audience expecting to see something a little more on those lines. When it’s Mary Shelley and Buchanan taking a drive, having sex. I think they have sex, right?
Craig: Pretty sure. It’s implied.
That’s, that’s another thing that I can’t believe about this movie. Well, I guess I can. It’s rated R, but aside from some gore effects, which I don’t know, do you think this would get an R today? I mean, the gore effects are pretty graphic, but it’s not like they look real. It’d be PG 13. It looks like movie magic.
Yeah. It’s, I,
Todd: I. It’s not dwelled upon. I wouldn’t, I honestly don’t understand why this is rated R. I think it’s a 1990s R. It’s gotta be.
Craig: I was, I was really thinking, like, when I got halfway through and I was so into it, I was like, can I show this to my kids? Oh yeah, your high school kids. Yeah. Yeah. And I looked and I’m like, it’s rated R, and then I went to the I never, ever do this.
This may actually be the very first time I’ve done it. I went to that, like, parents guide. Oh yeah. IMDB. Yeah. Where, where it breaks everything down. And there’s nothing. There’s like, no swearing. There’s certainly not any effort. Words. Nudity. There’s no nudity. At all.
Todd: So weird for a Corman movie actually.
Craig: There’s implied sex and by implied it’s like they kiss and then it cuts away and then it cuts back to the morning and she has her top off under a blanket like, okay, it’s
Todd: not,
Craig: it’s not like that’s scandalous at all. And yes, there are some gory effects, but I’m thinking about, I’m like, this is nothing that my 17 year old kids haven’t seen.
This is. Tame compared to the things that they have seen. I think I could show it, and I think that I might. Well,
Todd: there you go. I mean, why not? Again, I just think that the crowd going to see this was probably looking for a action packed Frankenstein movie and was a little jarred by the long segments of what I thought was very interesting and very fun literary sort of drama.
Craig: Stoker’s Dracula come out?
Todd: The Coppola movie. It’s got to have been around the same time. Cause I imagine this came out as a response to it.
Craig: That’s what I’m thinking too. And if people went looking
Todd: for that, I could see why they would be disappointed. Okay. Oddly enough, as was kind of common with Corbin stuff, Bram Stoker’s Dracula came out two years after this.
So this predates Dracula by two years. This isn’t the first time this has happened with Corbin. Have you, you know, Carnosaur, right? Yep. I don’t know if you’ve seen it, but you know of it. Yes. Do you know that Carnasaur predates Jurassic Park. That was in, well, they were in production about the same time.
And I think Carnasaur came out first. So yeah, this is another case where almost like, uh, it seems like maybe they had a little bit of the pulse of where things were going just before they made it big with a bigger budget movie. Sure. Sure. The drama circus, Dracula, Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein. What other movies like that all came out around this time?
These updates of the classic monsters.
Craig: That’s, oh gosh, I don’t know, I don’t, I didn’t watch the trailer. I don’t know how this movie was advertised. Maybe people were just going in and I don’t know what people were expecting. Who knows?
Todd: But unlike Bram Stoker’s Dracula, Bram Stoker’s Dragia has a lot of salacious stuff in it.
You know, it, it starts off, it’s super atmospheric. It’s got sex. It’s got nudity. It’s got hints of vampires and then vampires and monsters and creatures. Throughout, even though. You know, it has pretensions to be this literary kind of movie. It really is a spectacle. This movie is not, it has its moments, but it’s nothing like that.
Craig: This movie is a spectacle in a different kind of way. That’s what I mean. I don’t know. It’s it’s, but it is, I mean, it’s bigger than most of the stuff that he does now to be fair, like the 1870s. sets, they look like sets. I mean, if you told me right now that army of darkness was filmed on those same sets, I wouldn’t be surprised.
That’s kind of what it looks like. And the costumes don’t look like this is not going to be nominated for any awards for costuming. Yeah. Shelly’s dress is kind of sad, simple.
Todd: Maybe it’s historically accurate though. I don’t know. The
Craig: townspeople, it almost feels like. They almost feel medieval. They don’t feel 1817, do they?
That’s absolutely true. I was just gonna say, I mean, they just got their costumes off the back lot. I don’t want to say a lot of care wasn’t put into it, because I know that that’s not true. I know that Corman was very concerned about what things looked like in frame, and he wanted them to look interesting and good.
So I don’t want to say that no care was put into it, that just
Todd: It just has a cheapness to it, right? Yeah. Yeah. I know what you mean.
Craig: So After the kid is killed and Justine is hung, then Buchanan tries to reason with Frankenstein and be like, You just have to tell the truth, you have to tell the truth, and Franken’s like, Frankenstein’s like, Okay, here, I’ll give you this sealed letter.
Deliver it to my wife and he delivers it to the wife and he thought it was gonna be like go to the magistrate and Tell them Justine is innocent, but it’s not it’s just telling her to get out of there So in other words, he’s not gonna do the right thing But the monster has already threatened to kill Elizabeth if Frankenstein Elizabeth is Frankenstein’s If frankenstein does not make a mate for him And I think at this point frankenstein has said i’m not going to do it now He waffles back and forth in the book at some point.
He tells the monster he’s gonna do it And then he says he’s not gonna do it and then it doesn’t happen the same way Elizabeth is killed in her room in the novel, but in this The monster chases elizabeth through the forest and again, I couldn’t find I couldn’t find a lot about this but she’s you know in a Horses and carriage and he’s chasing behind and it’s a it’s kind of an action piece.
Yeah, and it looks good
Todd: I really enjoyed it. I like the way the monster was moving like when he was running after it He had this very odd kind of stilted gait, but But fast, it was very menacing and he gets up and gets up and he gets up and then you can see he’s grabbed onto the back and then when she turns around, he’s gone and he’s there in the front, you know, and just stops the horses Superman style with his hands and rips her chest open.
Oh, my God, that was a bit gory. Actually, I could see that might, that might warrant something close to an R. I
Craig: mean, it is. I get it.
Todd: Yeah, she’s dead. She’s dead. And so that’s the thing that I think finally convinces Frankenstein he’s going to do it, because he has an interest in resurrecting Elizabeth. And that’s more his selfishness than his hope to help out Frankenstein’s monster.
And I think that tracks with the book, right?
Craig: Well, the townspeople show up and they are going to, like, lynch Buchanan for the murder of Elizabeth. Oh, that’s right. The monster, the monster goes on a rampage and kills a bunch of them. Now they know about it. I’m not confused by this. I just think it’s a little loose.
It, I guess that Frankenstein does have control over the monster because he’s the only one that can give him a mate. It just seems like the monster just killed his fiance and now it seems like the monster is Frankenstein’s. Lapdog like right do whatever he says and so he kills all these people to save Buchanan because Buchanan is from the future and he has a futuristic car and they can use the car To harness electricity.
Oh my god. It’s so back to the future, right? He’s gonna uh We missed the first one in in the very very beginning when Buchanan first gets to the ancient past He drives his car and he hides it exactly like Marty McFly. Yeah, which
Todd: which
Craig: is so funny
Todd: You Cuz it lasts all of like, uh, a minute before he takes it out and he’s just joyriding through the countryside.
Doesn’t care who sees him, doesn’t give a shit.
Craig: But
Todd: then
Craig: Back to the Future comes back here.
Todd: You wanna know what else is kinda funny, small tangent, is this movie takes place in 2031, which is always amusing to see these movies that take place in the future when now the future is either here or really, really close.
The way he’s talking to his car, back And asking his car for information and his car is kind of sentient here. In 1990, I would have watched this and been like, Oh, this is that cheesy, you know, computers are never going to be like this. And here we are with AI in 2024. That is basically exactly like this.
Is Alexa quippy? Is Siri quippy? Can be.
Craig: That’s funny.
Todd: And chat, GBT. You know, you can ask it. All these things.
Clip: Reference Mary Shelley, born Mary Wilson, CRT Godwin, Mary Shelley, born 1797, died 1851. Mistress to the poet, Lord Byron and wife to the poet Percy Shelley. She’s chiefly remembered as the author of the novel, Frankenstein Hard Copy, novel Printing a hard copy.
The subject matter is artificial intelligence. Ms. Shelley wrote the book when she was only 19 years old, while living with Byron and Shelley at the Villa Diodati, presently some 200 yards north northeast. People warn Dr. Buchanan, probability is high that they are late sleepers.
Todd: And it has this like, uh, I guess little mini printer or fax machine or something inside the car that just serves it out on a tray.
And I thought, yeah, that could be an option in a Tesla if somebody really wanted it.
Craig: I thought the car was funny because it was, it, I mean, I know, you know, the reference to, it reminded me of Kit from Knight Rider because I don’t have Alexa or Siri. I sometimes talk to Google, but that’s very simple.
Todd: So I don’t know
Craig: if Siri or Alexa quip with you, but the car quips with him.
Like they joke with each other. And I thought that was hilarious. She had several lines that I typed out in my notes that I take extensively and never referenced.
Todd: Ah, geez. Well, anyway, so yeah, his whole deal, their, their deal is somehow, I guess the car probably has some kind of futuristic, uh, energy generator of electricity.
And so, he has the monster climb up the tower, dragging these cables up with him, and attach it to the roof? So, I guess, lightning still needs to strike the cables, which are attached to his car? Or is it all a big ruse? I’m not exactly certain. I don’t know, it doesn’t really matter. I mean, they’re, they’re, they’re I think he needs a charge.
Yeah,
Craig: I think that maybe the car can like the lightning can strike and then the car can store. I don’t know. It really doesn’t matter. They all have to be hooked up together. Meanwhile. Buchanan has also, he has the prototype for his Laser. Ion laser, I don’t know what it is, for his laser in the back of the car.
And he’s also charging it up and he has it pointed at the tower.
Todd: So this is a direct parallel then, isn’t it? It’s like lightning strikes this beacon, which is gonna allow Frankenstein to bring his monster alive. At the same time, it’s gonna give Buchanan enough power to light his laser up. Ha ha ha ha! So they’re both Right, right.
They’re both doing exactly the same thing, just with, with different ends. It’s kind of clever, isn’t it?
Craig: It is clever. And then once they get everything strung up there and then they get into. Frankenstein’s lab. It really feels like those old black and white Frankenstein movies with all of the like electricity things and the things bubbling up and you know, cylindrical tanks and all kinds of crazy lights and the big storm.
And I can’t say enough how much I like Raul Julia, not just in this role, but I just think he’s fantastic, but I think that he’s fantastic in this role. He’s charming and charismatic, but I also entirely believe him as Insane. Oh yeah. Like he’s manic and crazy and power hungry and egotistical. He plays Frankenstein so well.
Clip: I wanted to give man the power to create life to free him from a cruel and fictitious God. What man ever achieved that?
Craig: You know, the Frankenstein in the book is like 19, like, he’s like a first year med student. Film adaptations should age him up. Like, he needs to have had a lifetime of thinking he’s Top dog to really, I think, have that kind of insane intensity about him.
Right. It’s great. And basically everything happens just as it does in those movies. Well, except here and it’s not Igor helping Frankenstein, it’s his monster. Now I don’t really recall, they never make the mate. In the book so this is this is really more like and i’ve never seen it but i think the clips that i’ve seen this is like bride of frankenstein the the monster is helping frankenstein make his bride and that all kinds of happens there’s some drama where there’s not enough lightning but then there is and then she finally wakes up it’s elizabeth by the way who basically looks pretty much the way she always has except he gave her enormous thumbs now why do you think that is
Todd: i don’t know.
That was odd. Did
Craig: you notice that ?
Todd: Yeah. It was an odd choice. Right? I didn’t know if like, uh, she also, did he have clamps on her thumbs too? I don’t know.
Craig: I don’t know. Like she looks pretty much the same except she’s kind of stitched a little bit on her face and like around her hair it looks like maybe it’s a little burned or whatever.
But then when she wakes up here in a second, she has enormous. Thumbs.
Todd: Maybe they wanted her to look monstrous, but not ugly her up too much. So they just decided to focus on the hands.
Craig: I’m going to, I’m going to choose not to put too much thought into that and just let it go. But anyway, that happens. They kind of bring her to life, but at the same time, there’s enough energy for the laser to go off.
And the laser goes off and it shoots out. At all of them, I guess, and it shoots the whole castle happens. Yeah. Yeah. Something crazy happens. And then all of a sudden they are in a wintry tundra. The mansion slash castle is kind of in ruins. But they’re all there and so
Todd: what an interesting notion, right?
Because isn’t the book the framing story that eventually Frankenstein chases his monster as far as like Antarctica or something like that
Craig: like to the North
Todd: Pole Yeah, and so that’s which you know, I don’t know how practical that is. But anyway, that’s what happens And so this nods to that but in a different way, this is like the future So I think it’s supposed to be All of this is supposed to be taking place in, like, the same location, the same physical location.
We’re just jumping around in time. So, in the future, humanity is more or less reduced to this frozen tundra. And, in the past, this was the site of Frankenstein’s lab. In 2013 This was the site of Buchanan’s lab. Whoever knows how far into the future we are. The world is a tundra wasteland, but Buchanan’s lab is still there.
But we don’t know that yet.
Craig: Well, to be fair, now, like, like, again, I don’t think the movie is concerning itself with this, because Buchanan didn’t get sucked into the time rip. From his lab. He had driven home. Oh, right. But I but I don’t even I don’t even think they care I don’t even know that his lab and home were necessarily supposed to be in the countryside of geneva Who cares whatever he got sucked into frankenstein and now
Todd: They’re in the ruins of his castle because it kind of broke apart while they’re there, but now there’s this drama where Elizabeth slash Frankenstein’s bride wakes up, looks at herself, and starts to walk towards Frankenstein, Frankenstein’s monster, and they kind of embrace.
But then Victor Frankenstein turns to her and says, come to me, Elizabeth. And so she has this whole kind of mental realization, you know, it’s all on her face. It’s all just this, this bit, what’s she going to do? And then what’s that going to do? You know, if she goes to Frank and Victor Frankenstein, then the monster’s going to be pissed, you know, so you’re wondering what’s going to happen.
And in a very, very quick scene, because Frankenstein has his gun out and he’s aiming it, think of the monster. Uh, she goes up to Victor and grabs the gun and pulls the trigger herself, forcing him to shoot her in the chest, and now she’s dead. So, that was tragic. But, expected.
Craig: Sure, sure.
Todd: Again,
Craig: I’ve never seen Bride of
Todd: Frankenstein, so I don’t know how that goes.
At that point, there’s a little bit of a battle, I think, right? Between them? Uh, the monster kills Frankenstein and he trudges off.
Craig: Oh, that’s right! He kills him. He goes up to him. I liked this. He grabs him and he picks him up by like, crotch and shoulders, I think? Yeah. And holds him up over his head, and I think, now I don’t know because it was a really quick shot, but I think that that was a whole dummy of Raul Julia.
Todd: Yeah, it must have been.
Craig: And, and like, breaks it over his knee, and then Raul Julia lays in the snow and bleeds out of his mouth and dies. He’s
Todd: dead, yeah.
Craig: And then the monster takes off. Yeah.
Todd: Now Buchanan is literally Victor Frankenstein in the novel, going through the frozen tundra after the monster to try to kill him before he Reaches somebody else and kills more people he stumbles on to a portal
Craig: It’s a hatch like like a hatch from lost like down into the underground Mm hmm Buchanan finds this and when he goes down there, it’s different It’s not like his lab before but it’s all this technology with like, you know big panels of computers and like lasers everywhere and when Buchanan goes down there An AI voice says, welcome, Dr.
Buchanan. I don’t know what the implication here is. I think
Todd: it’s that it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s his old lab.
Craig: Well, maybe it’s his old lab or it’s the technology that he. Created.
Todd: Yeah.
Craig: Developed. So it recognizes him, but the monster is also in the room and the monster says
Clip: This world you made is better than Victor’s.
It is barren as I am barren. Lonely as I am alone.
Craig: All of a sudden the monster is like all philosophical and knows all this stuff and he’s like, This is the brain of the great city beyond, the last refuge of mankind. Oh my god, like there’s, there’s, there’s Heavy drama.
Todd: It’s
Craig: heavy drama.
Todd: And the monster just knows all this shit, all of a sudden.
Craig: And it’s all happening with like lasers and like all this Crazy stuff is going on. Buchanan like shoots the monster, but he’s not dead. And then he, the monster says, what am I that you must destroy me? There’s, just as there is in the book, they, they maintain it in the movie too. It just seems like in the book, whereas it’s a big kind of philosophical, moral, spiritual debate, like they, they touch on it here, but It doesn’t really have the same impact.
He’s like, what am I that you must destroy me? And Buchanan’s like, an abomination in the eyes of God. And the monster’s like, so what are you? And then he says, I am Frankenstein?
Todd: Yeah, I thought it was a little heavy handed. I mean, I think he just recognizes. He did the same thing, you know, like he created this monster, his monster was this laser, and, you know, it ended up destroying the world, it ended up turning against its creator, and, and now he’s responsible for all this pain, and in Frankenstein’s case, you know, sort of like the village and all that, and who knows what else the monster’s gonna do, but in Buchanan’s case, it’s just the entire world, you know, in his effort to save it, uh, he, uh, ended up destroying it.
And so I think that’s, I think that’s the parallel, that they are very strongly painting with a very dark brush here.
Craig: Yeah, eventually, I mean, there’s more fighting, like the monster, I think Buchanan shoots him, but then the monster rips off his own arm and tries to beat Buchanan with it. That was hilarious!
I thought that was hilarious.
Todd: He’s swinging his own arm around for no good reason. Anyway, that was great. He’s distr he’s trashing the place too. He’s pulling things down and whatnot. But Buchanan still has his lasers and I guess he still knows how they work somehow.
Craig: And he uses the clapper to control them. I’m not kidding, guys. The clapper.
He uses the clapper and some like hand motions to control lasers and the lasers shoot the monster. Oh God. And then the monster’s like getting electrocuted and stuff. And he’s like, you don’t understand. You can’t kill me. I’m like, I don’t know, whatever. And then Buchanan exit, like he leaves the facility and he looks at this like big city on the horizon.
And then is it the monster like voiceover? You think you’ve killed me. But I am with you forever. I am unbound.
And then it’s a long, like a wide, like a, an aerial shot of Buchanan walking towards this post apocalyptic city that may or may not have
Todd: anybody in it. We’re not sure.
Craig: That’s the end.
Todd: Ah, yeah. I loved it.
Craig: I thought it was a blast. I enjoyed it. This is an odd movie to recommend to people, because I think that there are a lot of people who are kind of casual horror fans or maybe more modern horror fans, who I would recommend this to, and they would watch and they’d be like, What the f k?
Right. Why? Why did he recommend this? And then I feel like there are people like you and me, just as you just now introduced this movie to me, I would be so excited to introduce it to somebody like you or me who hasn’t seen it. Cause I was giddy. Top to bottom. Front to back, Giddy through the whole thing.
It’s so obviously Corman. It’s so obviously his style. However, it’s clearly a much larger budget. There are tons of people that you will recognize in it. The performances are good. The acting is good. I don’t have any complaints about the acting. It’s larger in scope than any other. Cormen film I’ve seen.
Most Cormen films I’ve seen are shot on very, like, they’re shot on sets. It is very small. It is very confined. You usually have three or four locations, if you’re lucky. This that, you know, I don’t know how it was done. I don’t know if they did it with screens or if they were actually shooting on location.
I have no idea, but it looks good. It looks much bigger and broader. I was impressed. I’m used to Corman directing cheesy, goofy films that I often enjoy. But this, he shows a little bit of gravitas.
Todd: I
Craig: feel like he shows me in this last film that he directed that he could do those movies like the other guy did.
That’s just not what he does.
Todd: Yeah. You know, it’s, it’s interesting. This movie had an 11. 5, I think, million dollar budget in 1990 dollars. I’m not sure what that translates to in 1960 dollars. It’s,
Craig: it’s low.
Todd: Yeah.
Craig: But, I mean, 11 million dollars, even in 1990’s, low.
Todd: And so, in a way, this really harkens back to what we did at the start of the series, The House of Usher.
You know, here was Corman presented with better actors than he usually has a bigger, bigger budget, puts together something that has a little more spectacle to it based on a literary property that everybody knows and allows it to get philosophical and a little heady as the material warrants and crafts a really fine little film.
Unlike, you know, House of Usher, which was very well received and made a ton of money. And then, of course, as we had said earlier, spawned a whole series of those PO films. This movie just didn’t. failed. At the box office, it didn’t even make a half a million dollars. And so, uh, you know, more or less just went straight to video.
Wow. And it seems like everyone’s forgotten about it, which is a shame, really, because I feel like, I mean, here we are reappraising this movie. I feel like people nowadays might reappraise this movie and see something a little more special there.
Craig: I think so too. Yeah. I think so too.
Todd: Again, it’s cheap and corny in spots.
Like the ending, again, the dialogue there is a little corny in what they’re trying to say, and I was a little heavy handed, and we talked about how the sets and things do look a little cheap and a little off the shelf at times, and that’s fine. Again, I think it serves the material well. But it was probably more a function of what they had to work with and Corman’s efficiency, but the performances are great.
The story is interesting. I was never bored. I had a lot of beautiful, pretty things to look at. You know, I liked the thematic parallels and sort of being mentally challenged there as well. You know, it wasn’t just a pure popcorn movie. I just thought all around, it was a, I mean, it was disappointing for him, you know, because it didn’t do well.
But I think Corman could be very proud of this movie as a director.
Craig: I loved it. I loved it. And I’m so glad that You chose it. I mean, I, I had said, let’s, let’s do something a little bit more modern. That was my only request. I think if I remember correctly, and you picked this one. And I was kind of glad cause I had looked at it.
I was interested, but I’m so glad now that you picked it. I’m so glad to have seen it. I just. Oh, I enjoyed it so much and I know that I know for a fact that a lot of that is because I just taught Frankenstein for the first time last year and I really enjoyed it. My students really enjoyed it So to be that close to it and i’ll be teaching it again in the fall And it just makes me even more excited to read the novel again
Todd: Well, what an interesting career.
Corman has had and there’s so many more films You can go and check out that he either directed or Or that he had a hand in producing many of which are fun. Some of which, you know, are kind of silly and maybe forgettable. Almost every single movie that he made, made money. And he was very proud of that.
He said he had very, very few. I mean, you could probably count them on one hand and this, I guess, being one of them. Movies that he made where he did at least recoup the budget. They were happy if they made money, they didn’t need to be up for Academy Awards or anything like that, or be this huge box office hit to be satisfied and move on to making the next picture.
And that’s what I really like about this guy. God, you know, there are times when I feel like I was just a couple decades late to the party. I like this ethos. It really gels with my own ethos. And as an artist, as a creator, getting along in the world, it really would have been fun to be a part of his team at some point in my life.
And I’m sad that I’ll never have that opportunity, but it’s been fun looking back on his career. And we will do so many more Corman movies. Of course we will. In the future. I’m Carnosaur now. Now that we’ve seen this, I was thinking, man, we should do Carnasaur. And I want to go back and revisit some of those Poe films as well, because, uh, love Vincent Price.
And a couple of those Poe films I remember as just being a lot of fun. Hopefully our listeners will have some suggestions as well for their favorite Corman produced movies and, uh, Who knows? Maybe we’ll do another series at some point. Alright, well thank you again for listening. Again, give us your responses.
We want to hear your feelings and thoughts about Cormint. Just, uh, write them in the comments wherever you’re listening to this podcast. Maybe on Apple Podcasts. Maybe you went directly to our website at ChainsawHorror. com You can leave us comments there as well. We try to respond to everything we receive, even on our Instagram and Twitter pages.
Axe, whatever you call it now, and our Facebook page. Just google Two Guys in a Chainsaw podcast and those will pop right up for you. Also, we have a lot of fun chatting with our patrons behind the scenes. Go to patreon. com slash chainsaw podcast and think about subscribing there. We love our patrons. We thank them for your support.
We thank you for your support. The best thing you can do for us is just to refer this to another friend and get us a new listener. Until next time, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig. With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.
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