Off the Fence with Karen Covy: Mastering Decision Making, Divorce & More

Most couples don’t fall apart because they don’t love each other. They fall apart because they don’t understand the patterns quietly running their relationship. In this podcast episode, Psychotherapist and relationship coach Christie Bemis reveals why traditional marriage counseling often fails ... and what actually works to create lasting change in struggling marriages. 

With over 20 years of experience and a fresh approach called Relational Life Therapy, Christie explains how the coping mechanisms that protected us in childhood often sabotage our adult relationships. 

Instead of treating both partners as "the problem," Christie focuses on the dysfunctional pattern they've created together. This one small shift changes everything, because when you’re focused on your own behavior, you can change the pattern and dynamic of your entire relationship even if your partner doesn’t change.

Christie also dives deeply into themes like emotional attunement, boundaries, intimacy, and why communication tools alone rarely fix relationship disconnection. 

If your marriage is struggling and traditional marriage counseling just hasn’t worked, this podcast episode can open the door to a whole new approach that just might save your marriage.

About Christie

Christie Bemis is a psychotherapist, sex educator, and relationship coach with over 20 years of experience helping people deepen intimacy and connection. She’s the founder of Hot Pink YOUniversity, host of the Ignite Your Life podcast, and author of multiple offerings that empower people to reignite passion and prioritize love.

Connect with Christie

You can connect with Christie on LinkedIn at Christie Bemis and on Facebook at Hot Pink You. You can follow Christie on Instagram at Christie Bemis and on YouTube at Hot Pink YOUniversity. To learn more about working with Christie, visit her website at Christie Bemis.

Special Offer

Curious about the health of your relationship? Christie is offering the SPARCS Assessment for couples on her website. In less than 10 minutes, this online tool evaluates all six areas of partnership — helping you celebrate your strengths and pinpoint the areas that could use a little more love and support.

Karen Covy is a Divorce Coach and Consultant, Lawyer, Author, and Speaker who is dedicated to helping people make the best decisions possible for themselves, their families, and their future - especially in stressful times. You can check out Karen's videos on YouTube.

You can connect with Karen on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and on her own website at karencovy.com.

Divorce doesn't come with an instruction manual … but what if it could? When veteran celebrity journalist Ilyssa Panitz filed for divorce in 2018, she searched desperately for someone who could translate the confusing legal jargon and overwhelming process into plain English, but that "divorce correspondent" didn't exist. So as her long-running divorce dragged on, Ilyssa became the resource she wished she'd had all along. 

In 2020 Ilyssa launched a nationally syndicated radio show, streaming TV series, and website dedicated to demystifying every aspect of divorce. From the shocking cost of legal retainers to why fighting over the family home might be the worst financial decision you'll make, Ilyssa breaks down the critical mistakes people make when they're too emotional to think straight. 

She explains why your legal team is just one piece of a much larger puzzle and how to analyze decisions in a common-sense way that will keep the drama (and your legal fees!) down.

Whether you're considering divorce, in the middle of one, or trying to rebuild after, Ilyssa’s hard-won wisdom offers a roadmap through the chaos. She tackles everything from hidden liens on your house to what happens to kids when parents vent publicly about their divorce. 

Ilyssa wraps up with a message of hope: that with the right preparation and the right team, you can emerge from divorce not broken, but empowered.  

(And yes, we talk about celebrity divorce, too!)

About Ilyssa

Veteran journalist Ilyssa Panitz is a trailblazer - one of the world's foremost journalists about divorce and a highly accomplished entertainment news reporter, producer, and editor for more than 25+ years. Ilyssa began writing about divorce for Authority Magazine in 2020. Her work with the publication led Ilyssa to launch a website and radio show tackling every issue and angle surrounding all stages of divorce. Her nationally syndicated show "The Divorce Hour with Ilyssa Panitz" airs every Saturday and Sunday on CRN Digital Talk Radio Network and streams on 14 platforms including Spotify, Amazon, iTunes, Apple, and all podcast platforms. In 2024, Ilyssa debuted her new streaming television series "Ways Thru Divorce" on Your Home TV, a free on-demand streaming platform. Throughout her career, Ilyssa's important connections in the world of entertainment, sports, and business have made her a go-to writer for A-list talents like Tom Hanks, John Travolta, Dolly Parton, Oprah, Jane Fonda, Will Smith, Venus Williams, Meryl Streep, Jay Leno and more. Ilyssa is one of the most well-rounded journalists in the industry today. 

Connect with Ilyssa

You can follow Ilyssa on Instagram, X and TikTok @ilyssapanitz and get exclusive content from The Divorce Hour and Ways Thru Divorce on Instagram @thedivorcehour and @waysthrudivorce.  To learn more about working with Ilyssa, visit her website at Ilyssa Panitz.

Karen Covy is a Divorce Coach and Consultant, Lawyer, Author, and Speaker who is dedicated to helping people make the best decisions possible for themselves, their families, and their future - especially in stressful times. You can check out Karen's videos on YouTube.

You can connect with Karen on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and on her own website at karencovy.com.

Divorce can feel like an emotional freefall, especially because you don’t know what to expect or when the pain will stop. That’s precisely the problem that Oona Metz has set out to end in her book on divorce grief, entitled Unhitched: The Essential Divorce Guide for Women.

As a licensed clinical social worker with decades of experience, Oona shares how her own divorce led her to create structured, therapist-led divorce support groups for women who desperately needed reassurance, guidance, and a sense that they weren’t alone. Through that work, Oona has identified five distinct phases of divorce grief that everyone who experiences a divorce will go through.

Like Elisabeth Kubler Ross’ five stages of grief, Oona’s five phases of divorce grief provide structure to what otherwise seems to be a chaotic experience. Identifying and understanding those phases of grief provide those navigating divorce with a roadmap through one of life's most disorienting experiences

In this podcast episode, Oona walks through how heartbreak, emotional ups and downs, healing, letting go, and moving forward actually show up in real life. She also offers practical insight into boundaries, high-conflict co-parenting, and dating after divorce, all with a focus on helping women regain clarity, confidence, and a sense of self.

If you or someone you love is navigating the choppy waters of divorce grief, this podcast episode will provide you with the structure and support you need to get through your challenges with more confidence and grace.

About Oona

Oona Metz is the author of Unhitched: The Essential Divorce Guide for Women. She is a therapist with 30 years of clinical experience. For the past 15 years she has specialized in treating women navigating divorce. She leads three weekly divorce support groups and trains mental health professionals to lead them as well. 

Connect with Oona

You can connect with Oona on LinkedIn at Oona Metz and on Facebook at Women Navigating Divorce.  You can follow Oona on YouTube at Oona Metz and on Instagram at Oona Metz.  To learn more about working with Oona, visit her website at Oona Metz.

New from Oona

Oona’s new book is what you need to support you through the emotional side of divorce.  Order your copy now!  Unhitched:  The Essential Divorce Guide for Women.

Karen Covy is a Divorce Coach and Consultant, Lawyer, Author, and Speaker who is dedicated to helping people make the best decisions possible for themselves, their families, and their future - especially in stressful times. You can check out Karen's videos on YouTube.

You can connect with Karen on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and on her own website at karencovy.com.

Money fights don’t usually start with numbers. They start with invisible beliefs you don’t realize you’re carrying, and they show up in the money conversations you have or don’t have with your spouse. 

In this podcast episode, Terry Gaspard, a licensed therapist, author, and relationship expert, explains why money becomes such a charged issue in relationships and how childhood experiences shape our money beliefs in ways we rarely recognize. 

Drawing from both professional research and her own personal experience, Terry talks about the scarcity versus abundance mindsets and why a clash of mindsets quietly drives conflict, even in strong relationships.

Unexamined money beliefs turn into blame, defensiveness, and power struggles, often without either partner understanding what’s really happening. Terry shares how awareness, education, and intentional money conversations can help couples uncover their money “scripts,” understand each other’s financial styles, and stop treating financial disagreements as personal attacks. 

Whether you're struggling with conflicting money mindsets or just want to strengthen your financial partnership, this conversation offers actionable strategies that can transform how you handle money as a couple.

About Terry 

Terry Gaspard, MSW, LICSW, is a licensed therapist with over thirty years of clinical experience specializing in individuals, couples, and families, divorce, remarriage, as well as an author, nonfiction writer, and college instructor. She is a contributor to Huffington Post, The Good Men Project, The Gottman Institute Blog, and Marriage.com.  Two of her research studies on adult children of divorce have been published in the Journal of Divorce and Remarriage.

Connect with Terry 

You can find Terry on LinkedIn at Terry Gaspard, Facebook at Moving Past Divorce, Twitter at Moving Past Divorce and on her website at Moving Past Divorce.

New from Terry

You can find Terry's new book, Let's Talk About Money: Low-Conflict Conversations for Couples" available on Amazon and Barnes and Noble.  Also available on audiobook on Amazon.

Karen Covy is a Divorce Coach and Consultant, Lawyer, Author, and Speaker who is dedicated to helping people make the best decisions possible for themselves, their families, and their future - especially in stressful times. You can check out Karen's videos on YouTube.

You can connect with Karen on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and on her own website at karencovy.com.

What if the real block between you and the extraordinary love you want isn’t dating apps or “bad luck,” but the stories your nervous system is still carrying? In this podcast episode, relationship mentor Riana Malia shares how her own history of divorce, betrayal, a DEA raid, and multiple abusive relationships pushed her to develop a way of clearing decades of stored trauma without rehashing every detail in therapy. 

Riana explains how tapping into the unconscious mind, releasing old emotional “marbles” like anger, shame, and fear, and practicing true forgiveness allowed her to stop repeating painful patterns and finally create a healthy, aligned partnership. Now Riana uses simple but powerful tools to help her clients do the same thing.

Riana’s work is radically different than traditional techniques and sits somewhere between therapy and traditional coaching. What matters most is incredible results Riana helps her clients achieve in a fraction of the time most people spend in therapy.

Finally, Riana introduces her Extraordinary Love Index (“ELI”), a free diagnostic assessment designed to help you answer one big question: what’s actually standing between you and extraordinary love? 

If you’re looking to break free from your old patterns and finally discover the love you’ve always wanted, this podcast episode is for you.

About Riana

Riana helps high-achieving women who’ve built a life they’re proud of in their career, family, friendships and growth but still feel stuck in the same old love patterns. Through her signature method, she helps them rewire the subconscious beliefs and recode the nervous system responses that have shaped their relationships for decades, so they can finally create extraordinary love that matches the life they’ve built.

Connect with Riana

You can connect with Riana on LinkedIn at Riana Malia and on Facebook at Riana Malia.  You can follow Riana on her You Tube channel at Riana Malia and on Instagram at Riana Malia. To learn more about working with Riana, visit her website at Riana Malia.

Free Assessment:  Extraordinary Love Index

A 40-question self-discovery tool that reveals the hidden patterns quietly shaping your love life and keeping you from the extraordinary partnership you’re ready for. Listeners receive a personalized 28-page report that highlights their unique blueprint and the next steps to reset it.

Karen Covy is a Divorce Coach and Consultant, Lawyer, Author, and Speaker who is dedicated to helping people make the best decisions possible for themselves, their families, and their future - especially in stressful times. You can check out Karen's videos on YouTube.

You can connect with Karen on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and on her own website at karencovy.com.

What if the biggest obstacle in your divorce isn't your spouse, but the system itself? Jonathan Merel, a progressive Chicago family law and divorce attorney with over 20 years of experience, reveals the hidden dynamics that can turn even amicable divorces into drawn-out nightmares. From lawyers who overpromise to judges who won't decide, he explains why some divorces cost fortunes while others resolve efficiently.

In this podcast episode, we dive deeply into high-conflict divorces, exploring what happens when only one spouse is reasonable or when opposing counsel ramps up the conflict for profit. Jonathan also shares practical strategies for dealing with difficult spouses and identifying problematic lawyers. [Hint: If your lawyer isn't returning calls within 24 hours, that's a red flag.] 

Jonathan’s law firm has also pioneered an unconventional approach to family law. It’s the only Chicago law firm that has a divorce coach on staff to bridge the gap between legal expertise and emotional support, and in this episode you’ll discover what a difference that makes.

Finally, Jonathan explains divorce trial realities that would shock most people, from cases getting trial dates scattered over an entire year, to judges taking months to issue rulings, and costs mounting relentlessly. We also talk about the benefits of mediation and the way COVID has permanently shifted the landscape in divorce.

If you are even considering going to trial in your divorce (or if you have no choice), this podcast episode is one you can’t afford to miss. 

About Jonathan

Jonathan Merel is an experienced attorney who advocates for his clients in all divorce and family law proceedings, including settlement negotiations and trials. Jonathan founded Merel Family Law in early 2009 after working for many years at another family law firm in Chicago. Through his hard work and unwavering dedication to his clients, Jonathan has quickly grown the firm to become one of the premier divorce and family law firms in the Chicagoland area.

Connect with Jonathan

You can connect with Jonathan on LinkedIn at Jonathan Merel.  You can follow Jonathan on Instagram at Merel Family Law and listen to his podcast  All Things Divorce Podcast. To learn more about working with Jonathan, visit his website at Merel Family Law.

Karen Covy is a Divorce Coach and Consultant, Lawyer, Author, and Speaker who is dedicated to helping people make the best decisions possible for themselves, their families, and their future - especially in stressful times. You can check out Karen's videos on YouTube.

You can connect with Karen on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and on her own website at karencovy.com.

Divorce can feel like a never-ending war that slowly strips you of your money, your identity, and your sense of control. Ravit Rose learned this the hard way after burning through over $100,000 and nearly a decade and a half of her life in a brutal, toxic divorce that left her broke, depressed, and questioning everything. 

In this podcast episode, Ravit reveals how cycling through lawyers, escalating court battles, and making emotionally reactive decisions only fueled the conflict and nearly broke her physically, financially, and emotionally. Through self-representation, intense self-development, and learning how to remove emotion from strategy, Ravit discovered that winning in divorce has far less to do with aggression and far more to do with how you show up. 

The conversation goes beyond legal process and dives into the often-ignored reality that divorce is mostly about the human being going through it, not just the paperwork. 

Now a divorce scientist and the founder of the Irooze Divorce Community, Ravit helps parents navigate separation and divorce by matching them with specialized professionals who address not just their legal paperwork and financial documents, but their mind, body, and soul as well. 

Whether you're contemplating divorce, in the thick of battle, or trying to rebuild your life after divorce, Ravit's message is clear: divorce isn't a one-person show, and the 20% that's legal and financial can't succeed without addressing the 80% that's about your own transformation. 

About Ravit

Ravit Rose is a Divorce Scientist and Founder of the Irooze Divorce community. Parents across USA and Canada are matched & connected to the "right " Divorce support team, based on their needs.  Ravit helps her clients grow and develop, and prepare their strategy to help them get move through this period of their life.

Connect with Ravit

You can connect with Ravit on LinkedIn at Ravit Rose and follow Ravit on YouTube at Irooze Divorce Community.  To learn more about working with Ravit, visit her website at Irooze Divorce. 

More from Ravit

Take a free Self Assessment on Ravit’s website and schedule a complimentary call with one of our Divorce Specialists.

Karen Covy is a Divorce Coach and Consultant, Lawyer, Author, and Speaker who is dedicated to helping people make the best decisions possible for themselves, their families, and their future - especially in stressful times. You can check out Karen's videos on YouTube.

You can connect with Karen on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and on her own website at karencovy.com.

When you can’t decide whether to stay or go in your marriage, your biggest fear is that if you decide to leave, you’ll be making a mistake. But staying on the fence can be an even bigger one.

In this special solo episode of the Off the Fence Podcast, I talk about why staying in limbo is so hard, and how you can finally move through it. I break down why waiting for absolute certainty will keep you frozen, and why clarity comes from taking action, not from a magical, lightning-bolt moment. Most importantly, I explore the real impact of staying versus leaving on children, finances, identity, and long-term happiness, all while challenging some of the biggest myths people believe about divorce.

Whether you're just beginning to question your marriage or you've been wrestling with the decision about whether to stay or go for years, this podcast episode offers a roadmap for moving from confusion to clarity. 

It will help you learn how to trust yourself enough to make this kind of decision, and will give you a practical framework and the tools to make that decision in a way you won't second-guess for the rest of your life.

Karen Covy is a Divorce Coach and Consultant, Lawyer, Author, and Speaker who is dedicated to helping people make the best decisions possible for themselves, their families, and their future - especially in stressful times. You can check out Karen's videos on YouTube.

You can connect with Karen on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and on her own website at karencovy.com.

What if the patterns keeping you stuck in unfulfilling relationships trace back to wounds you didn't even know needed healing? Relationship coach and hypnotherapist Mina Yang reveals how unresolved childhood trauma can quietly sabotage your ability to choose the right partners. More importantly, she reveals how you can finally break free. 

Through her unique approach combining hypnotherapy and relationship coaching, Mina helps you understand why you keep repeating the same relationship mistakes and how you can finally have the love life you deserve.

In this podcast episode, Mina explains how childhood traumas create subconscious beliefs that drive our adult relationship choices, often causing us to chase emotionally unavailable partners or to sabotage our intimate relationships. She also shows how customized hypnotherapy recordings and guided meditations can rewire our deeply ingrained beliefs so that we can stop chasing the wrong partners and finally become attracted to someone healthier. 

We also talk about the practical issues of when you should start dating after a divorce, how to avoid dating app scammers, and how to recognize red flags early on in a relationship. 

Healthy, drama-free partnerships do exist, and this podcast episode could be your key to finally creating the love life and relationship you’ve been dreaming of.

About Mina

Mina Yang is a former academic turned hypnotherapist, relationship coach, and author devoted to helping people thrive in love and life. Drawing on her 20+ years as a music professor, her certification in Rapid Transformational Therapy, and her deep understanding of human psychology, she guides clients toward emotional freedom, self-love, and authentic connection. Mina’s work, including her book Boss Lady Boss Love, blends science, art, and soul to help people release old patterns and open to relationships that truly expand them.

Connect with Mina

You can connect with Mina on LinkedIn at Mina Yang True Connection and follow Mina on YouTube at Mina Yang.  To learn more about working with Mina, visit her website at Mina Yang.

More from Mina

Get your copy of Mina’s book Boss Lady Boss Love

Join her upcoming retreat in April: True Connection Retreat

Learn more about her VIP True Connection Circle

Karen Covy is a Divorce Coach and Consultant, Lawyer, Author, and Speaker who is dedicated to helping people make the best decisions possible for themselves, their families, and their future - especially in stressful times. You can check out Karen's videos on YouTube.

You can connect with Karen on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and on her own website at karencovy.com.

What if the evidence you need to win your divorce is hidden and you don't even know where to look? Becky Sampson, founder of Only Subpoenas, learned this lesson the hard way when she spent three and a half years representing herself against five attorneys in Hawaii family court. After mastering the art of subpoenas through 21 successful requests for financial records, she didn't just win her case, she discovered how to level the playing field when a spouse is hiding assets.

Most people think getting a forensic accountant is the answer when money seems to be missing, but there's a catch: accountants can only work with the documents they have been given. If your spouse won’t come clean with the financial records, even the best forensic accountant won’t be able to find where the money is hidden.

Subpoenas help you find the records you don’t have. They’re the actual key to uncovering hidden finances, from retirement accounts to employment records. 

Becky explains the critical mistakes that cause one in three subpoenas to get rejected, why "foreign subpoenas" across state lines are trickier than anyone realizes, and how proper documentation creates the leverage that often leads to settlement before trial.

Now helping attorneys navigate the tedious compliance requirements most law firms avoid, Becky shows how the right information (obtained the right way) can transform a divorce from an endless battle into a fair resolution. 

Whether you're self-represented or working with a lawyer, understanding when and how to use subpoenas could be the difference between guessing what exists and actually proving it in court.

About Becky

Becky Sampson is the Founder of ONLY Subpoenas™, a company born out of her own hard-won victory in the Hawaii Family Court system. After 21 hearings, 21 subpoenas, and 3½ years representing herself against five attorneys, Becky didn’t just win — she secured a fair and equitable financial outcome that honored both parties while keeping compassion at the center.

Now affectionately known as “Becky Brockovich,” she uses that experience to help others—especially women—navigate the legal and financial complexities of divorce with strength, clarity, and strategy. Her mission is to teach people how to uncover the truth, organize their evidence, and negotiate from a place of empowerment so they can walk away not just with peace of mind, but with what’s fair financially.

Connect with Becky

You can connect with Becky on LinkedIn at Becky Sampson and on Facebook at Becky Sampson.  You can follow Becky on Instagram at Divorcing Strong Becky Sampson and on YouTube at Divorcing Strong.  To learn more about working with Becky, visit her website at Only Subpoenas.

Free Download:  100 Legal Divorce Terms

Karen Covy is a Divorce Coach and Consultant, Lawyer, Author, and Speaker who is dedicated to helping people make the best decisions possible for themselves, their families, and their future - especially in stressful times. You can check out Karen's videos on YouTube.

You can connect with Karen on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and on her own website at karencovy.com.