Off the Fence with Karen Covy: Mastering Decision Making, Divorce & More

Have you ever noticed that the more you talk about your problems, the bigger they seem to get? Master Certified Coach Claire Pedrick has spent over 30 years helping people figure out why that happens and (more importantly), what to do about it. Her approach to getting unstuck is surprisingly simple, and that's exactly what makes it so powerful.

Claire introduces the idea of "right-sizing" problems by asking one small, focused question instead of trying to solve everything at once. She explains why talking to friends about your struggles can actually keep you stuck longer, what it means to be in the "soup," and why the path forward almost never looks like the big dramatic leap we imagine it will.

Claire also gets into the role emotions play in decision-making. She talks about why venting has real value, why it needs boundaries, and why sometimes the best way to process grief has nothing to do with talking at all. 

If you've been spinning in your head about your marriage, divorce, or any other major life decision, and you just can’t seem to break through to get an answer you feel good about, this conversation offers a fresh way of looking at what's keeping you stuck so you can finally move forward.

About Claire

Claire Pedrick doesn’t fix, direct, or diagnose. Instead, she helps people right-size problems so they can see clearly, take ownership, and move forward.  Her mission is bold: to replace outdated, coach-led models with simple, effective conversations that keep power where it belongs, with the person being coached.

Claire models radical partnership. She is especially interested in presence. The kind that holds space without holding control, and teaches how to lead in partnership, even when the power isn’t equal.

Connect with Claire

You can connect with Clair on LinkedIn at Claire Pedrick and on Facebook at 3D Coaching.  You can follow Claire on YouTube at @3DCoaching and on Instagram at 3D Coaching.  To learn more about how to work with Claire, visit her website at 3D Coaching.

Karen Covy is a Divorce Coach and Consultant, Lawyer, Author, and Speaker who is dedicated to helping people make the best decisions possible for themselves, their families, and their future - especially in stressful times. You can check out Karen's videos on YouTube.

You can connect with Karen on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and on her own website at karencovy.com.

Most people in unhappy marriages aren’t stuck because they suddenly fell out of love with each other. They’re stuck because the relationship has developed a fundamental power imbalance that has eroded trust and dashed the dream of marriage equality that the couple shared in the early days of their marriage. 

In this podcast episode, Drs. Jake and Jennifer Dean-Hill, therapists, authors, and married partners who've built their lives around the science of equal partnership, share the story of how their own 33-year marriage became the laboratory for their “Two Crowns Framework” — a model built on the radical idea that true marital harmony requires both people to stay fully themselves.

The doctors dig into why so many relationships quietly default to one person leading and the other shrinking and why women, in particular, are often conditioned to hand their power over without even realizing it. 

The Two Crowns Framework offers a concrete alternative model for marriage equality and relationship harmony. It’s grounded in mutual respect, shared power, and the idea that when two whole people bring their full selves into their marriage, without shrinking, they can create a “kingdom” that’s stronger than what either of them can create on their own.

The Drs. also get specific about boundaries, motivation, and the surprising science behind why conflict escalates differently for men and women. They dive deeply into what it actually takes to rebuild trust once a relationship has hit a breaking point. 

Whether your marriage is “on the fence” or you’re already facing divorce but want to create a peaceful co-parenting relationship, this podcast episode can help you create the solid relationship you desire.

About Drs. Jake & Jenn

Drs. Jake & Jennifer Dean-Hill are therapists, authors, and partners in every sense of the word. As college sweethearts turned clinicians, they discovered that harmony in partnership comes from shared purpose. Through their own evolution, they developed the Wear Two Crowns framework: a modern model of partnership built on mutual respect, power, and peace. Today, they help couples, leaders, and organizations learn how to lead together without losing themselves in the process. Drs. Jake & Jenn both have their Masters in Social Work, their License in Independent Clinical Social Work, and Doctorates in Global Leadership and they reside in Southeast WA state.

Connect with Drs. Jake & Jenn

You can connect with Drs. Jake & Jenn on LinkedIn at Drs. Jake & Jenn and on Facebook at Drs. Jake & Jenn.  You can follow Drs. Jake & Jenn on YouTube at @DrsJakeJenn and on Instagram at Drs. Jake & Jenn. To learn more about how to work with Drs. Jake & Jenn, visit their website at  Drs. Jake and Jenn.  And you can find their book here Two Crowns, One Kingdom: Navigate the dark forest to reach your happily-ever-after.

Karen Covy is a Divorce Coach and Consultant, Lawyer, Author, and Speaker who is dedicated to helping people make the best decisions possible for themselves, their families, and their future - especially in stressful times. You can check out Karen's videos on YouTube.

You can connect with Karen on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and on her own website at karencovy.com.

The hardest part of codependency in relationships is that from the outside, it can look like love. You feel like you’re the reliable one, the helper, the fixer, the person who keeps the relationship running, until one day you wake up tired, resentful, and unsure of what you even want anymore.

Psychotherapist and codependency expert Michelle Farris breaks down what codependency in relationships actually looks like. She goes beyond the textbook definition and describes the real-life signs of co-dependency: like chronic resentment, losing yourself in a relationship, and feeling like you can't trust your own instincts.

Michelle walks through what actually happens when you try to change a long-standing dynamic in a relationship, and why the other person's reaction to your changes will tell you a lot about whether the relationship has a future. She also explores how codependency often spills into how you parent, how you handle conflict, and even how you advocate for yourself during something as high-stakes as your divorce.

If you’ve ever wondered where "being helpful" ends and codependency begins, or if you’re struggling with being able to trust yourself again after years of putting everyone else first, this podcast episode is for you. You’ll discover how to finally break the cycle of codependency and create healthy, sustainable relationships with those you love.

Michelle shares a free resource on healing one-sided relationships, plus where to find her work online. If this conversation helps, subscribe, share it with a friend who over-gives, and leave a review so more people can find support.

About Michelle

Michelle Farris is a psychotherapist, codependency expert, and anger management specialist. She helps people create relationships that work without sacrificing themselves. She has reached over 3 million viewers on her YouTube channel, where she’s known for her relationship advice and expertise. Michelle empowers her clients to stop people-pleasing and trust themselves again so they can create a happier life.

Connect with Michelle

You can connect with Michelle on LinkedIn at Michelle Farris and on Facebook at Counseling Recovery.  You can follow Michelle on YouTube at @MichelleFarrismft and on Instagram at Counseling Recovery. To learn more about how to work with Michelle, visit her website at Counseling Recovery.

Grab Michelle’s free guide:  7 Steps to Healing One-Sided Relationships

Karen Covy is a Divorce Coach and Consultant, Lawyer, Author, and Speaker who is dedicated to helping people make the best decisions possible for themselves, their families, and their future - especially in stressful times. You can check out Karen's videos on YouTube.

You can connect with Karen on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and on her own website at karencovy.com.

Divorce often starts with the law and ends with burnout. But it doesn’t have to be that way. Karen McNenny, founder of the Good Divorce Academy and author of The Good Divorce, challenges the conventional wisdom of lawyering up first and fighting for everything you can get, especially when children are involved.

In this podcast episode, Karen explains why having an elegant exit can prevent years of damage. She also reveals her counterintuitive roadmap for uncoupling that puts family stability before legal strategy. She shares how to stabilize your household before the legal fight begins, how to reduce everyday conflict when you’re still living under one roof, and how flexible nesting arrangements can help kids adjust gradually to a two-home family.  She explains why rushing to "just be done" often causes the most lasting damage, and what to do instead to protect both your kids and your co-parenting relationship long-term.

Karen also explains why having a “good divorce” isn't a one-time event, it's an ongoing practice. From navigating the teenage years across two homes to knowing when to call in a therapist (and what kind), Karen draws on 15 years of personal experience and two decades of professional work to show that keeping your family intact through divorce isn't just possible, it's a choice you can make from day one and every day thereafter.

About Karen

Renowned for blending warmth, clarity, and practical strategy, Karen helps navigate change with intention. As a sought-after speaker, trusted advisor, and TEDx presenter, she draws on over two decades of leadership coaching and consulting across nonprofit, corporate, and public sectors.

Karen is also the founder of the Good Divorce show and Good Divorce Academy, and author of The Good Divorce. Her lived experience—navigating her own divorce while raising children across two homes from kindergarten through college—proves families can restructure without rupturing, making her guidance profoundly relatable and effective.

Connect with Karen

You can connect with Karen on LinkedIn at Good Divorce Coach and on Facebook at Good Divorce Coach.  You can follow Karen on YouTube @gooddivorcecoach and on Instagram at  Karen McNenny.  To learn more about how to work with Karen, visit her website at Karen McNenny.

New From Karen

The Good Divorce: How to End Your Marriage Without Ending Your Family

Karen Covy is a Divorce Coach and Consultant, Lawyer, Author, and Speaker who is dedicated to helping people make the best decisions possible for themselves, their families, and their future - especially in stressful times. You can check out Karen's videos on YouTube.

You can connect with Karen on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and on her own website at karencovy.com.

If your spouse has cryptocurrency and you're heading into a divorce, you can leave a fortune on the table without even knowing it … and your lawyer might not be much help! Certified fraud investigator and cryptocurrency forensics expert Chris Groshong breaks down how digital assets like Bitcoin can be hidden, and more importantly, how they can be found. From blockchain's permanent transaction record to the hardware wallets that look deceptively like USB thumb drives, he explains what clues to look for and why they matter.

In this podcast episode, we dive into the practical mechanics of uncovering hidden crypto: what questions to ask your spouse in discovery, how to subpoena Apple and Google for app download histories, and why a simple screenshot of a wallet balance is about as trustworthy as a picture of a bank account balance on a bad day. 

Chris also explains the difference between crypto held on a centralized exchange versus crypto held in self-custodied wallets. (That distinction dramatically affects how easy [or impossible] it is to track.)

Perhaps most surprisingly, the discussion reveals that finding the crypto is only half the battle.  Deciding what to do with it (i.e. how to divide crypto in divorce) is just as important. Should you take the dollars or keep the crypto? The answer depends on the crypto’s tax basis, market timing, and your risk tolerance in holding a volatile asset that has historically gone from pennies to $100,000.

If you or your spouse has any kind of cryptocurrency (or you’re not sure if you do!) this is a podcast episode you’re not going to want to miss.

About Chris

Chris Groshong is a Certified Fraud Investigator (CFI) and a leading expert in cryptocurrency forensics and blockchain compliance. With over a decade of experience in the crypto industry, he specializes in uncovering hidden digital assets in complex legal matters, including high-asset divorce cases, bankruptcy, and fraud investigations. 

He is a member of the CFCIA (California Financial Crimes Investigators Association), Government Blockchain Association, The Chamber of Digital Commerce, and has served as an Expert Witness in a Federal fraud case involving Bitcoin and Monero. He also has a public-private partnership with the FBI through Infragard.

Connect with Chris

You can connect with Chris on LinkedIn at Chris Groshong and on Facebook at Coinstructive.  You can follow Chris on YouTube at Coinstructive.  To learn more about how to work with Chris, visit his website at Coinstructive.   

Find assistance for Crypto Fraud

The Crypto Recovery Alliance  

Karen Covy is a Divorce Coach and Consultant, Lawyer, Author, and Speaker who is dedicated to helping people make the best decisions possible for themselves, their families, and their future - especially in stressful times. You can check out Karen's videos on YouTube.

You can connect with Karen on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and on her own website at karencovy.com.

When a business is on the line in a divorce, the financial stakes can be staggering - and most people don't realize how much they don't know. Whether you’re a business owner trying to protect your business in divorce, or a non-owner trying to value your spouse’s business, understanding the rules of business valuation is critical. 

Nicole Sodoma, a nationally recognized family law attorney and founder of one of the largest family law firms in the Carolinas, breaks down how business valuation works in divorce proceedings and why both spouses are often operating with blind spots that can cost them dearly.

From the quiet strategies used to undervalue a business to the surprising ways lifestyle clues can tell a truer financial story than a tax return, there's far more to uncovering what a business is actually worth than most people expect. 

As a business owner who has navigated divorce herself, Nicole understands and explains how business owners often minimize what their company is worth, while the non-owner spouse may have no idea what questions to ask or what information to look for to dispute that value. 

Nicole also explores the emotionally exhausting stretch between separation and final divorce, especially for entrepreneurs and business owners who are trying to keep a company running while their personal life is unraveling. She highlights the “divorce fog” that can cloud judgment, the risks of making decisions too fast, and the importance of building a strong team before problems spiral.

If you or someone you know owns a business and is going through a divorce, this podcast episode can make the difference between navigating through it with financial stability versus allowing your divorce to drive you to the edge of a financial cliff.

About Nicole

Nicole Sodoma is a nationally recognized family law attorney, author and thought leader redefining divorce, co-parenting and modern family dynamics. She is the founder and managing principal of Sodoma Law, the largest family law firm in North and South Carolina. A former litigator, certified parenting coordinator and collaborative law attorney, Nicole draws on her own lived experience as a step-parent, mother, ex-wife and entrepreneur to provide personalized strategies and tools for families navigating complex transitions. She is the author of Please Don’t Say You’re Sorry, which helps readers navigate the challenges of marriage and divorce with insight, humor and practical tools to move forward. Nicole is also the founder of the Sodoma Law Foundation and has been featured in outlets including The Wall Street Journal, USA Today and Business Insider.

Connect with Nicole

You can connect with Nicole on LinkedIn at Sodoma Law and on Facebook at Sodoma Law.  You can follow Nicole on YouTube at Sodoma Law and on Instagram at The Sodoma Way.  To learn more about working with Nicole, visit her website at Sodoma Law.

Karen Covy is a Divorce Coach and Consultant, Lawyer, Author, and Speaker who is dedicated to helping people make the best decisions possible for themselves, their families, and their future - especially in stressful times. You can check out Karen's videos on YouTube.

You can connect with Karen on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and on her own website at karencovy.com.

What if the most painful experience of your life could actually become the doorway to discovering who you really are? Lisa Lisser, a certified divorce coach and retired attorney who navigated the painful ending of her own 24-year marriage, shares a refreshingly grounded perspective on how to find the spiritual gift in divorce.

As Lisa explains, divorce disrupts your identity, your nervous system, and the story you’ve told yourself for years about who you are. But with the proper perspective, mindset and a few practical tools, you can turn that disruption into a transformation 

In this episode Lisa introduces the concept of "strategic empathy," a practical tool rooted in neuroscience for dealing with even the most difficult, high-conflict, co-parenting situations.

From tiny gratitude practices to mindset shifts that rewire how you see yourself, Lisa offers surprisingly simple, stackable steps that can pull you out of the darkest moments of divorce. Her approach opens the door to a different kind of transformation - one where divorce becomes not just something you survive, but something that can fundamentally change how you see yourself and your future.

If you've ever felt like you've lost yourself in the divorce process, this conversation might just change how you think about what's possible on the other side.

About Lisa

Lisa Z. Lisser is a Certified Divorce Coach®, BeH2O® Child-Centered Coparenting Coach, and founder of LZL Coaching, where she integrates strategy with soul-centered transformation. A retired attorney with a master’s degree in Jewish education and more than 25 years of nonprofit leadership, Lisa brings a rare combination of legal insight, lived experience, and spiritual grounding to the divorce process. After navigating her own divorce, she recognized that beyond legal decisions, divorce is a profound identity shift — one that calls for clarity of values, courage, and conscious intention.

Lisa helps clients slow down the emotional noise, reconnect to their deeper “why,” and build strategies rooted in who they are becoming. She believes that when divorce is approached as both a practical and spiritual transition, it becomes not just survivable — but transformative.

Connect with Lisa

You can connect with Lisa on LinkedIn at Lisa Z. Lisser and on Facebook at LZL Coaching.  You can follow Lisa on Instagram at Divorce Coach Lisa and on YouTube at The Divorce Clarity Studio with Lisa Lisser.  To learn more about working with Lisa visit her website at LZL Coaching.

Karen Covy is a Divorce Coach and Consultant, Lawyer, Author, and Speaker who is dedicated to helping people make the best decisions possible for themselves, their families, and their future - especially in stressful times. You can check out Karen's videos on YouTube.

You can connect with Karen on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and on her own website at karencovy.com.

What if the secret to getting through one of life's hardest chapters isn't therapy, legal advice, or even time - but simply putting on your sneakers? Fitness instructor and cancer exercise specialist Carly Fauth joins the Off the Fence podcast to make a compelling case for movement as medicine, not just for the body, but for the mind and emotions, too. As a triple-negative breast cancer survivor who kept teaching and working out through chemotherapy, Carly brings hard-won, personal credibility to everything she shares about using exercise to manage divorce stress.

Carly unpacks the connection between physical stress and emotional turmoil in a way that’s practical, relatable, and (most importantly) DO-ABLE. Her advice resonates whether you're navigating a divorce, a diagnosis, or just a season of life that's knocked you flat. 

Carly explains why stress tanks your motivation to move right when movement matters most, and how even small, consistent actions can shift your brain chemistry and help you feel more in control. We talk about Carly's 15-minute fitness method, the principle of habit stacking, and the one thing Carly believes everyone needs before they can sustain any healthy habit long-term. (Spoiler Alert: it has nothing to do with willpower.)

This conversation connects movement, mindset, and personal resilience in a way that challenges common excuses and invites a fresh perspective on what it really means to take care of yourself when life gets hard.

About Carly

Carly Fauth is a fitness instructor, mentor, and cancer exercise specialist with over 15 years of experience helping people build strength, resilience, and confidence through movement that fits their real lives. As the founder of Fit in Fitness and FitFunCarly, she creates accessible programs—from one-on-one coaching to group experiences—that help people reconnect with their bodies and feel empowered through intentional, joy-filled movement. A triple-negative breast cancer survivor, Carly continued teaching and exercising throughout chemotherapy and surgery, and now supports cancer patients, survivors, and caregivers in staying active through treatment and beyond. Her mission is to show that movement isn’t just exercise—it can be medicine, empowerment, and joy, even in just 15 minutes a day.

Connect with Carly

You can connect with Carly on LinkedIn at Carly Fauth and on Facebook at Fit Fun Carly.  You can follow Carly on YouTube at Fit Fun Carly and Instagram at Fit Fun Carly.  To learn more about working with Carly, visit her website at Fit Fun Carly.

Karen Covy is a Divorce Coach and Consultant, Lawyer, Author, and Speaker who is dedicated to helping people make the best decisions possible for themselves, their families, and their future - especially in stressful times. You can check out Karen's videos on YouTube.

You can connect with Karen on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and on her own website at karencovy.com.

If you're going through a divorce, there's a financial landmine hiding in plain sight that most people don't even think to check … and it could cost you years of headaches after your divorce is over. In this podcast episode, consumer protection attorney Jim Smith explains how credit reports actually work, why errors happen more often than people think, and how consumers can spot credit mistakes during their divorce before they cause serious financial damage afterward.

Jim explains how common credit mistakes, from identity theft to identity confusion and mis-reported credit information, can quietly wreak havoc on your credit score. He also walks through the specific red flags you should look for when reviewing your own report. He also reveals the one legitimate website where you can pull all three of your credit reports completely free, and how to tell the difference between a soft and hard inquiry.

Jim also talks about the divorce-specific scenarios that most people (and even many divorce attorneys!) never even think about. From joint credit cards to authorized user accounts, Jim outlines the surprisingly easy steps that, if taken during the divorce process, could save you from a financial nightmare on the other side.

About Jim

Jim Smith is a consumer protection attorney with over 20 years of experience litigating under the Fair Credit Reporting Act. He specializes in reviewing credit reports during divorce to help clients identify errors, identity theft, and joint account issues that could impact their financial future post-divorce.

Connect with Jim

You can connect with Jim on LinkedIn at James Smith.  To learn more about working with Jim, visit his website at Fair Credit Attorneys.

Free Annual Credit Report

You can get your free annual credit report at annualcreditreport.com.

Karen Covy is a Divorce Coach and Consultant, Lawyer, Author, and Speaker who is dedicated to helping people make the best decisions possible for themselves, their families, and their future - especially in stressful times. You can check out Karen's videos on YouTube.

You can connect with Karen on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and on her own website at karencovy.com.

Divorce isn’t just painful. It’s full of hidden divorce mistakes that can quietly derail your future if you don’t see them coming. 

After interviewing over 170 divorce experts and real people who've been through the divorce process, the Off the Fence podcast team has distilled three years' worth of podcast conversations into the five most expensive mistakes divorcing people make so that YOU can avoid making them yourself.

This episode opens by examining the patterns that kept showing up across all different experts (lawyers, mediators, therapists, financial professionals, coaches, and people who have lived through the process themselves) over the past three years. You’ll discover common themes, hard-won wisdom, and practical tools you can use in your own life.

What makes this episode especially useful is the way it moves from big-picture awareness to practical application. It doesn’t just name common divorce mistakes; it explains why people make them and how those mistakes play out in real life 

You’ll get links to the specific experts and topics you want to explore, from decision-making to divorce process choices, financial preparation, high-conflict dynamics, and emotional regulation. 

This episode functions like a mini divorce roadmap. It will help you slow down, see the divorce process more strategically, and recognize that better outcomes usually come from better preparation, better self-awareness, and better choices made early.

Karen Covy is a Divorce Coach and Consultant, Lawyer, Author, and Speaker who is dedicated to helping people make the best decisions possible for themselves, their families, and their future - especially in stressful times. You can check out Karen's videos on YouTube.

You can connect with Karen on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and on her own website at karencovy.com.