John Hudak, senior fellow and deputy director of the Center for Effective Public Management at Brookings, says President Trump "choked" in his public comments on the violence in Charlottesville. Hudak adds that if the president pardons former Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio, as has been rumored, he will "be complicit in stomping on the rule of law."

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5 on 45 is part of the Brookings Podcast Network.