Online Coaching

This week’s guest, Jeanet Bathoorn, is a bestselling author of 6 books, international speaker and trainer and a no-nonsense business coach. She is a certified NLP Master Coach and a Certified Sacred Money Archetype Coach.

She started the Freedom Entrepreneur Movement a couple of years ago after having dealt with a total lack of freedom in her business and private. In 2020 she started her own podcast show in which she recorded 100 episodes in 100 days.

She is a multiple six-figure entrepreneur since 2005 and has coached thousands of entrepreneurs finding their own unique path to freedom. She also runs several mastermind groups.

We talked about…

>> Changing plans from freedom entrepreneur running cruises to focus on the dutch market again

>> Launching a podcast with 100 episodes in 100 days

>> The importance of having fun with your content

>> Writing your first book shifting to author

>> Keeping things simple to avoid confusing your clients

Episode Links and Mentions:

English Website: http://jeanetbathoorn.com/

Assessment: https://jeanetbathoorn.com/money-archetype-assessment/

Ebook: https://jeanetbathoorn.com/ebook-7-steps-to-become-a-freedom-entrepreneur/

LinkedIn Link: Jeanet: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeanetbathoorn/

LinkedIn Link: Stephanie: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephaniefiteni/

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Prefer to Read? Here’s the Transcript:

Stephanie:

Hello, Jeanet, how are you? Hi, Stephanie. I'm fine. Thanks for having me. Thank you very much for joining us today. I'm really happy to have you on, would you like to start by introducing yourself and letting us know what you do? And we do it for? Okay. So my name is Janet - I work for the Dutch market, so all my content, everything is in Dutch. I call myself the freedom entrepreneur and I guide/mentor self-employed entrepreneurs to break through their own limiting beliefs, like the beliefs that they created in themselves. And I do that by running mastermind groups. And by putting out a lot of content, I know we're going to talk about content, but I put out a lot of content. Yeah, excellent. Yes, we're in the right place to talk about content. So, what does that content look like?

Jeanet:

So I am, I'm in the habit of writing books. I love to write books. And in fact, this year I will publish two books. My first book is about running a mastermind group. So what do you need to run a mastermind group? And what does it take to run a group? And the next book I wrote that my publisher asked me to write it. That will be published in November. And it's about online business models because of the whole COVID-19 situation.

Stephanie:

Oh, wow. Yes, definitely the right topic and especially the right topic for you. . Excellent. So that would be book number 10 in all, because you've already written eight books, right?

Jeanet:

Yeah. That's that if it's like books that I wrote his book number eight, but I wrote also like chapters for other books, so that, that would bring it to like books and co-writing books.

Stephanie:

Wow. was it all in dutch? For the Dutch market then, which is a pretty big market. Really.

Jeanet:

It's interesting, yeah, it's interesting, it's not so big. I mean, it's not English speaking or German-speaking, but it's a very active market. People are really eager to learn more and to develop themselves.

Stephanie:

That's really good. That's a very good one to be in then, especially if you're in the online space. So speaking of content, I know you've done something a little bit special In the last few months with the launch of your podcast in the middle of this a virus outbreak, which has caused so many people to rethink what they were doing. And I know that's, you know, what you were doing before, which is, what I got to know you for the cruise lady, everybody calls you the cruise lady. Cause that's used to do business mentoring cruises, right?

Jeanet:

Yes. Trans Atlantic cruise this year. That's right.

Stephanie:

So tell us how everything changed and you know, how the podcast came.

Jeanet:

Yeah. So last year, 2019, I took on a big project. So I organize my first international cruise before that it was only Dutch and I wanted to take as a lot of entrepreneurs with me. And before that I had groups of six and my, my biggest group was like 10 people, like very small intimate groups just because for me, it was just for the fun part of my business model. I, it was, it was an extra I used to run groups like since 2015, 2016 mastermind groups and things like that.

Then the cruise came along and I had this crazy ambition to bring more people with me and to do it for the English speaking markets. So in fact for like a lot of people and then doing that last year, because we left in November, the virus was not known by then, but doing it and being on the ship with all these people, I realized that it is not really the business model for me. It didn't make me happy to travel with so many people. And there was a big, big realization, like, who am I doing this for? Why would I do it this way?

So when I, yeah, when I left the ship, it was December. And then I already started to think, well, I want to cross the oceans. I love it. And I love to take people with me, but not so many and not so intensive and not long and not so like, not as a travel. So when I came back in the Netherlands, it was like in the winter, I started to rethink my home business model in January. And I was like, no, I'm going to go back to the Dutch markets. That's where I'm known. And I had to claim a position in the English market. It's easier. So one of the decisions as I'm going back to the Dutch market and let's see what will happen with the cruise, I didn't make my mind up about it. I didn't decide to do it. Yes or no. But then Corona came COVID-19 came, we had a complete lockdown.

And one of the first things I did was making a phone call to the CRO cruise company and told them that I want to cancel next year's cruise. And then I put the phone down and I was so relieved. I was like, who am I fooling? Why would I do it? If I don't like it? If it's like a burden on my shoulders.

Stephanie:

So it was a good thing for you because you really didn't want to do it.

Jeanet:

Not in, in the way that I shaped it. Yeah. So I do want to do cruises again, but only with small intimate groups. And most of the time, the people that join me are already in one of my mastermind groups. So I already knew them. We already had a connection, but now I had strangers on board. I'm like, it's not my usual fun. It didn't make me happy. It's a very important lesson.

Stephanie:

Yes. A very important lesson. Sometimes we make decisions and we do something. And then because it took so much work and so much investment, we kind of feel like we have to take it forward, even though maybe we're not enjoying it so much. So yes, it's definitely, I've made that mistake before. And it's, it's really nice to hear that, you know, you kind of did it once and you felt it wasn't right. And then you took that away. It takes a lot of, I think, clarity and self-awareness too, to be able to backtrack so quickly and say, no.

Jeanet:

Yeah. So, I mean, I was forced to cancel it because of this whole COVID-19 situation. And I was also very happy to cancel it. And I was like, okay, that's a good sign. So I cleared out my whole calendar, all the retreats, all life events, everything got cancelled or I cancelled them. And that was the point where you were referring to like all of a sudden it was February. I had loads and loads and loads of time to plan my business and to make a plan for reclaiming my position in the Dutch market. That's where my crazy podcast plan came. Yeah.

Stephanie:

Yes. That's truly crazy. Gosh, how many episodes are you on already?

Stephanie:

Started on March the fourth. And initially, I did, I said, okay, I'm going to create a hundred podcasts in a hundred days. And that's a very easy sentence to pronounce. It's very easy to say it. But looking back, it was, it was a lot of work and it was, I really loved it because I clear my calendar. I took my losses like also financially or like, okay, let's make a plan so that I can finish 2020 in a different way. That makes me happy and money flowing in again. And it worked, I mean, we're now six, seven months ahead. Or we are six, seven months from March. So I did a hundred and a hundred days that it was in the middle of June. And then I switched to a frequency of twice per week, two podcasts per week. So we are now at 134, I think. Yeah. It's one of the lists I'm like, okay, did I do that? Yeah.

Stephanie:

Yeah. I'm super curious. How did you manage a hundred episodes in a hundred days? What did your content creation schedule look like? Because it's more than batching. Isn't it? It's like a full-time job.

Jeanet:

Hold on. Thing. It's, it's almost a full-time job. And so I created this whole Excel sheet. And before I add one podcast, I already had three episodes on my digital shelf. I already had some episodes. I created them two years ago, but I never aired them. Yeah. So I wanted to start a podcast before I decided to go to the English market. I'm like, why would I start a Dutch podcast if I go to the English market, but okay.

Going back to the Dutch market. Okay. I have these podcasts like I have three episodes. And then the first thing that I did was created an Excel sheet with topics to talk about, but also what could be your call to action after that podcast show? And then I did a whole inventory. Is that the word like, I made a search in my own content. Like I had some digital online training. I had the most video, well, why not create audio?

There were some interviews that I already had, well, why not create them into a podcast episode? I took one of my books. I have a book about money mindset, and I just literally read some of the chapters in the book from the book. And I say that to them, like, I'm going to read this chapter for you because it's a useful chapter. So it just to get going.

Stephanie:

Excellent. So did you have a pattern? Did you have you know, was every episode different or, you know cause you know, some people go for a solo episode. Some people go for interviews. Some people like myself, I do alternate one solo and then one interview. Sometimes I mix them up. Cause I have more guests. So how did you do it? What did you, did you have a format?

Jeanet:

I, of course, thought about that and I listened to like the famous podcast is out of Pat Flynn and John Lee Dumas and people like that. And they all have a format and they all have a plan and I'm like, no, I want the podcast to be my playground. I want it to, to be a project. It has to be fun because it doesn't pay the bills, creating a podcast costs money and time. So I decided everything that I like is suitable for a podcast. So it can be a 10-minute episode with like a short, short mantra thing or like a short trip.

But it can also be a two-hour episode in which I have like a long interview or training. And I just decided I want it to be a representation of the work that I do and the person that I am. So there's no format. That's the thing. So I had, I did have this theme month. I, so like in may I thought about, I want to talk to entrepreneurs. Self-Employed entrepreneurs who wrote a book author, but also the non-fiction authors.

And I like to talk about them, talk about their book, like the content of the book, but also about becoming an author like this whole journey of changing your identity into becoming an author. And that was like an instant hit because I put some posts out on Facebook and on LinkedIn like I want to talk to authors who wrote a non-fiction book. Can you recommend people? And before I knew it, I had like 70 or 80 people on my list.

Stephanie:

Oh, fantastic. Wow.

Jeanet:

That was so easy. And that's yeah, that's really great because I got to really enlarge my network. I learned a lot because of receiving books, reading books. So they'd people telling me about their book and it was fun to do like one interview every day, like one interview out every day. There were days that I did three interviews and it was a max.

Stephanie:

Wow. Okay. That's good. Wow. I'm, I'm very interested in what you said and you know, you said it has to be fun. It doesn't have to have a particular set format task to be fun. And I completely subscribe to that idea because I think with content. What most people struggle with is motivation, the motivation to keep doing it. And yeah, unless you pick the right thing, that's really gonna make it an experience in itself for you that you want to do it.

You don't want to do it because it's good for your business because it goes out there because people will engage with it because people will find you want to do it because you enjoy doing it. And that is so, so important with content. Sometimes I have to dig really deep to find what really lights people up about their business because once you find that, then creating content is not difficult.

Jeanet:

I think. Yeah. I think that's, it's really important that you have fun in what you do, because it's what you say. If you have to write a blog every week, but you hate writing or don't start a blog, start a podcast or do videos or whatever.

Stephanie:

That's right and then there's always repurposing. It's like you said, you've got your book, you turned it into a podcast episode. You can do the same thing. You can get a podcast episode and turn that into a blog post. You know, it's, it's all about at least keeping your content exciting because repurposing, you know it can be automated to some extent outsourced later, it's something you can manage. Yeah.

Jeanet:

I discovered that I really liked it and I'm really, I'm like a really curious person. So I loved to interview people and ask them the questions that some people are afraid to ask. I just ask them.

Stephanie:

I liked the sound of that. I love talking to people as well because I'm very curious, but what is the kind of question for instance, that people wouldn't ask?

Stephanie:

What is the kind of question? So I had people in my podcast show that were really, really skilled, really experienced entrepreneurs and they get into feud a lot. So like I have, for example, I had one in my show, I think you wrote about 80 books already and he's like 65, 67. Yeah.

He's like productive and he's well known, but he's, he's like so used to getting interviewed by the press, et cetera. And I could tell that because if I ask a question, he just had an answer within microseconds. And then I, I asked him to go back to the person he was before publishing his first book.

Like, because that's the whole identity shift. If you are an author with 80 books it's very hard to remember the struggle, maybe when you didn't have 80 books when the first book was still not published. So I asked him to go back to that period and to describe what kind of person he was back then. And then that's the first time that he fell silent.

Like, Oh, I have to think about that. And then he said, well, good question. Yeah. I try to find insights in people that have got to do with them, like this whole identity shift that they have gone through. That's I think that's really interesting for people listening to my podcast because we all have started at zero. Every one of them started at zero.

Stephanie:

That's right. And I think every little success kind of does cause a bit of an identity shift in your beliefs as well, which I know is a topic you, you work with a lot.

Jeanet:

Yeah. But it has to, I mean, and the only way to gain these, these identity shifts, like in a positive way is to do the right things and to have the habits that support you. Like, if you want to be an author, you just have to write a book. It will not be written itself. I mean, you have to do the work, but you have to do the good things and yeah. Only shouting, like you have to do like take massive action. That's what Tony Robbins says. You have to take massive actions. I agree with that.

But as an entrepreneur, especially when you do a lot yourself, you have to know if I do this, why would I do it in order to get that goal? Is it, is it clear? Is it, is it, is it connected? Because very often, I mean, people write a book and then I asked her about that book. I said, is it your profit book? Like, do you have online training about it? Or would you like to run a mastermind group about it? Or no. I just wanted this book to be written. I'm like, okay. You just wasted six months of your life probably, but

Stephanie:

Oh, that sounds painful.

Jeanet:

Yeah. Well, I say it in a loving way, but if you don't have a plan, it's, it's a lot of work and everything is a lot of work.

Stephanie:

Yes, indeed. So you need to do it with, you need to have the goal first. First, and you need to, as you mentioned before now, It's going to take you in a direction you want to go. Excellent. Wow. Okay. So what made you write your first. So maybe your next book, maybe if it's easier. No,

Jeanet:

I can remember really well because I started to blog in 2008. Okay. Because someone told me that it's going to be the next big thing blogging. I'm like, okay, I'll start a blog. And I wrote about social media, but then a lot about LinkedIn. And I think I wrote already like 40 or 50 blog articles in two and a half years, two years. And all of a sudden I wasn't, I was on Twitter and Twitter was really new back then.

And it was like this lovely, wonderful village in which you knew people and people knew each other. And we could talk to the minister and famous people, et cetera. So I was surrounded by authors, by people who wrote books, but people who already achieved what I wanted to achieve. So one day I put it out on Twitter. Well, I would love to write a book and someone else responded to that.

Stephanie:

Her name was Suzanne. She already published two books and she said, well, it's, Hey, you should write a book. And here are the details of my publisher. So she sent me a direct message with the details of a publisher, why I reached out to the publisher, they checked my blog articles and they were like, yeah, let's write a book. Here's the book deal. So I never had to write a book first and go to a publisher. They just said, okay, this topic, social media is okay, great. When are you going to deliver? When is the manuscript ready? And that was the story of my first book. And it took me one initiative. Yeah.

Stephanie:

Well, that's like in, in social media years, that's a century. Yeah.

Jeanet:

But still, it was one...

In this episode, we talk about strategies, tools and platforms that promise new and known opportunities in 2021. We talk about what worked really well in 2020, what still works now and what new platforms and changes are coming up in 2021.

We talked about...

>> Google's Newest Significant Algorithm Changes scheduled for May 2021

>> Social Shopping

>> The new popular kid on the block: Clubhouse

Episode Links and Mentions:

>> www.stephaniefiteni.com/podcast

>> fiverr.com

Did you Enjoy this Episode?

Subscribe to this Podcast Here

Prefer to Read? Here’s the Transcript:

Google releases about 3000 updates a year to its algorithm, but every now and then it has an algorithm that actually carries a name like probably the most popular was Panda and then hummingbird. And there is going to be another big update in 2021. We don't know what it's going to be called yet, but it is going to be released in May 2021.

And we already know why it is going to be important and how things are going to change. So coming back to the one thing I always talk about, and you know, the reason why Google exists is to serve the best results to people who punch in keywords and sentences and questions into Google.

So you don't really need to fear because you are in Google are on the same side. However, Google, since probably the major algorithm released in 2010 has been working on trying to, push people who create websites and businesses to create a faster experience. So they want to speed up the internet and the algorithm release in May, 2021 is going to focus specifically on this. They've called it the user experience release. So they want to really focus on improving the way users are using your website.

So Google is going to now start looking at a number of elements on your site that it believes improve the experience of people or maybe more precisely yeah. Are elements that Google thinks are showing signs of a better positive experience.

Google has created what it's calling the core web vitals, which are, you know, three elements of measurements that it's going to use to decide whether your site has a nice user experience are not the first element Google will measure is how quickly the measurements above the fold actually load above the fold means that's part of the website that you can see in your screen right away without scrolling. So Google will be measuring how quickly it loads and also how quickly people can actually click on it because sometimes sites can load, but you know, you can't quite click on them right away.

It's like they need to do a little bit of extra loading and then you can finally interact with them. The third element is how long it takes for the picture to become visually stable. So for the whole layout to become visually stable, you know, sometimes you see a website that takes a little bit of time to load and sort of you see things falling around and, you know, the layout changes. So Google is going to take into consideration how quickly it takes to stabilise and settle down all these elements. According to Google, make for a good user experience. It has picked these three things to measure how the user is going to interact with your website in a positive way. But of course, it's going to give a lot more importance to mobile this time around than it does to the desktop. There are still many sites on the internet that don't quite perform as well on mobile.

In spite of having a very pretty mobile site, some websites are not great. I say most still have some very small elements to click on when it comes to the mobile experience. And there are certain things that Google thinks need to be actually even faster than desktop on mobile. There are, of course also some other very interesting developments which we have seen. When I say we, I mean, SEO people who work on the SEO of their websites on their clients and, you know, can see the changes in the algorithm. There have been some very exciting changes this year, especially for people who like me love and specialize in content. So what can you do to make sure that you're making the most of the changes that Google is going to throw our way this year? So here's what you need to do, make sure that your website is as light and as simple as possible.

So make sure that your images are as small as they can be. Make sure that your website loads quickly and if need to be shortened the length of your pages so that they load more quickly. If you use a WordPress site, check your template, make sure it doesn't take too long to load because it has a lot of extra code that you don't actually need. So if you have a site that maybe looks simple, but still takes a long time to load and it's WordPress.

You may want to hire somebody to actually clean out the code for you and make it faster. You can find developers on Fiverr and similar websites. And of course, always work with someone who is ideally referred and can prove that he has done the work well for other people as well. But it shouldn't be hard to find someone who can wake, make your website faster.

The second thing, which is really exciting, actually for all types of coaches is that niching is actually a great SEO strategy. This is something that I have tried in the last 18 months and it's worked wonders for the traffic of my website. It has, I think, quadrupled in the last six to eight months. And this has happened because I have gone deeper into niche silos. So when you niche, Google finds it really, really easy to understand what you're about. It also finds it really easy to know who to serve your content to. So you're doing Google a favour and you're doing your audience a favour. Now, when you create it's a website that also has a blog. So you are, let's say you're a coach and you work in a specific niche of life coaching. Let's say you do nutrition or weight loss or something of the sort.

If you're a blog has very specifically a lot of content about this particular topic. And then you niche down further too, for instance, weight loss for mums weightless for menopause. So you get your niche and you even create kind of siloed content by siloed. I mean that you have subcategories and subcategories, which are very, very specific and very, very relevant. What this does is it creates clarity, clarity for your audience to navigate your site and clarity for Google, to understand what you're about and who to serve your website to this creates a win-win situation because Google is going to find it really easy to serve you to the people that you're trying to find.

And another important thing, which Google is really giving a lot of emphasis on the value that you provide. This is a very important part of the user experience because if they come to your website and they do not find enough value, they're going to leave and Google traces, this Google knows how long people spend on your site before going to Google and punching that keyword back into the search.

So Google knows how much value they found on your site. It's very important, and this should be absolutely our main focus to keep your reader reading. Once they have landed on your website to maybe create a video so that they click on it and they can immediately understand what you're about. But the user experience is not just about that one piece of valuable content and that one piece of video, it's also about giving them an experience, leading them onto the next thing, having the right call to action on the right blog, post, having the right next action instruction on your video, and maybe, you know, connecting everything in a way that your audience really knows where to find the next step after they read.

And, you know, they get excited about what you're doing. So that's sort of like Google, in a nutshell, that's more or less what's going to happen in 2021, of course, stay tuned because there's going to be so much more that they're going to release during this year before the big year, the big moments, the big release in may when they finally release the updates, but let's now move on to the next digital marketing channel.

And the next one obvious and already actually rolled out feature. That seems to be taking social media by storm is the new e-commerce or rather shoppable posts on social media. Now you have had a lot of shopping carts already on Facebook. And the new feature actually rolled out to Instagram has already shown that about 46% of Instagram users purchased one or more products using the shopping feature on IgG posts.

The statistics are amazing. 46% is really, really high and seem to be very promising in the coming year. The reels are becoming more and more popular. It has given people the opportunity to reuse tectonics or maybe start playing around and getting the confidence to do tech talks. So all in all, I think Instagram is going to have a fantastic year. And if like a lot of businesses, you are calling your social media platforms this year, perhaps Instagram is one of those platforms to keep the next platform is LinkedIn.

And of course, they have rolled out a lot of new features this year. They are becoming more social as a platform. And I think they've been pretty successful this year. We're not on LinkedIn live yet. You should definitely try to get there a good way of doing this is to start producing videos regularly on LinkedIn. So just post recorded ones before you apply for the live button. Once you apply for the live button, then you have a much higher chance of getting it. And of course, LinkedIn, for those of you who targets, especially business to business is going to be a great place to market this year. And of course, finally, there is also the new kid on the block clubhouse, who is looking really, really promising in spite of being only available for iPhone so far and being only open to invite, which is a fantastic way of getting everybody to talk about it by giving limited accessibility.

It's promising, it's really promising. I like it. So for those of you who don't have clubhouse yet clubhouse is an audio platform. So, you know, it's like doing lives. There are rooms people organise rooms and there are speakers there. So there can be two or three or maybe even more people having like a panel discussion about a topic. And then there is the audience, and of course, they can invite the audience to join in and ask questions and engage.

So I think this is a really nice step forward. I have been in a few clubhouse rooms already and I have, you know, engaged a little bit and I have found some really interesting information. There are a lot of influences on there already. People are sharing information really freely and they're having very honest discussions. I think the fact that it's audio-only gives people the freedom to really jump on and off really quickly.

So, you know, you don't have to be made up. You don't have to prepare, you can just jump in and, you know, as long as you're not in a noisy room, you can just join into a conversation. So I think clubhouse is onto a good thing. Of course, I think podcasters are going to benefit a lot from this because people who podcasts are going to find clubhouse easy because they're used to just talking. And actually, the fact that you're not just talking to a microphone, but you're also talking to other people, makes it actually a lot easier than podcasting. I like it in a way. If you are accustomed to listening to podcasts, you're going to absolutely love this. You're going to love it. I am the kind of person that really does not like radio because, you know, it's, it's like you can't pick there's people talking and sometimes they annoy you.

And I really don't like listening to radio talk shows and things like that. I don't listen to the radio at all, but clubhouse is, is a different thing. So in spite of the fact that it might sort of feel like the same thing, it's very different because it's on-demand.

So people invite you to the rooms, you know what the topics are. You can follow topics, you can follow people, you can follow rooms. And, you know, I think it's really good because it gives you that choice. And you know, it's got a little button that says you can leave quietly so you can leave the room without showing up too much. My only concern about this platform is that once there are lots of people on it, it can become really quite overwhelming. I think they keep it in control. And you know, maybe the design of the app is going to have a lot to do with it if they keep it streamlined as it is.

And don't go too crazy. Like the other platforms, I think this is going to be a real, real nice one. I have really loved listening to some influencers like Laura Belgray and Kimra Luna. And you know, they have been really awesome having really authentic conversations as opposed to pre-planned webinars on lives, on this sort of thing. I really like the fact that it's unofficial it kind of feels more relaxed and people really relaxed people really are really honest. So it really feels almost like you're listening in on a conversation and then you're like, wow, I can actually jump in and speak to these people who are so, so up there when it comes to other social media platforms because they have such a large following. So I think clubhouse is going to change a few things. I'm really looking forward to seeing where it goes.

And 2021 is definitely going to be it's. Yeah. And last but not pleased definitely deserves a mention is SEO for voice search. Now SEO for voice search is like a sort of regular SEO, but it's one thing that we shouldn't forget. A lot of people have Alexa or Google Home devices in their home now. And it's very important that we keep in mind that these are increasing more and more and people are using them for search. So if growing the traffic to your website if you blog, if you put cast, if you put media on your website for your roadies to find voice search is something that you really want to make sure you think about, if you do your own keyword research, you're going to notice this. You're going to notice that there are certain keywords that look like commands. And you know, these are the ones to look out for because they come from audio searches.

Now it's going to be very interesting to see how these sort of the most recent audio media is going to mix with this voice search and where the devices to create, you know, a richer experience. So I'm really looking forward to seeing how this pans out as the technology becomes smarter and smarter. 2021 is promising to be a very exciting year when it comes to content and social media and everything, digital marketing. And I'm really, really excited to see how things develop. Thank you very much for tuning in today. And I really hope you find these developments exciting as much as I did.

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This week's guest, Clare Josa, is the UK's leading authority on Imposter Syndrome, having spent the past fifteen years working with business leaders to help them to overcome it, as well as leading the landmark 2019 Imposter Syndrome Research Study and publishing her new book: Ditching Imposter Syndrome.

An expert in the neuroscience and psychology of performance, her original training as an engineer, specialising in Six Sigma and Lean Manufacturing, means her inspirational approach is grounded in practical common sense, creating breakthroughs, not burnout.

She is the author of eight books and has been interviewed by the likes of The Independent, The Daily Telegraph and Radio 4, amongst others. Clare speaks internationally on how to change the world by changing yourself. We talked about...

>> Getting speaking gigs as a coach (even during lockdown)

>> Imposter Syndrome and how to identify it in yourself

>> How to overcome your imposter syndrome

>> When content comes from the heart

>> Creating a movement

Episode Links and Mentions:

Clare's Book: http://www.ditchingimpostersyndrome.com/book/

Become an imposter syndrome Mentor: https://ditchingimpostersyndrome.com/imposter-syndrome-mentor-training/

Clare's Speaking Page: http://www.clarejosa.com/book-clare-josa-to-speak/

Clare's Free Guide: http://www.clarejosa.com/profitable/

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Prefer to Read? Here’s the Transcript:

Clare Josa

Thank you for being with us. Thank you, Stephanie. It's lovely to spend time with you today. Claire, I know that you have done so much as a coach and you've come so far. You've got your book, you've got your certification program. You do amazing speaking ex now also virtually, and you also have your one-to-one and other programs. So, you know, I'm sure all the coaches and consultants listening are thinking, wow, how did she manage to do all this, but really love to hear more about your journey. Of course. Well, I started off as an engineer, as you do my training, I've got a master's degree in mechanical engineering and German, and I spent 10 years in engineering and specialised in six Sigma and lean manufacturing. After about 10 years, I realized actually I wanted to change a scene. There was a lot of me too in engineering back then being one of just two female engineers on a staff of 200 was quite challenging.

Clare Josa

And I would say realized I wanted to spend more time with people because making people smile was really what floated my boat rather than working with machines. So I went and I became, I went travelling for a year and then came back and I got the job as head of market research at Dyson. So I set up their market research functionality. I'd been running what we called guerilla market research in my engineering job. Because just being able to get engineers to talk directly to customers that gives you so much better feedback than when it's been through a marketing teams' filter because they're all speaking different languages. So at Dyson, my job was to be the interpreter between the design engineers, the marketing team and the end customers. And I loved that. That's when I qualified as an NLP trainer. So neuro-linguistic programming. After a few years, I realized I could never make a big enough difference in the world by selling somebody else's bits of plastic.

Clare Josa

So I took the leap back in 2003 and set up my own business in leadership development. The reason I got into imposter syndrome, which is what I've spent most of the last 17 years specializing in is I did a lot of executive mentoring work in those days. And my very first client had something that I didn't know what it was called a syndrome, but it was. And then my next one, my next one, my next one. And I kept working with all these people who to the outside world, they were really confident and successful, but at three o'clock in the morning, their self-talk was driving them crazy. It was holding them back from fulfilling their potential from really enjoying their role. It was making them micromanage. It was making them difficult to work with and people would often be sent to me as a last resort before they were fired. It's pretty harsh. Actually!

Clare Josa

All they needed was to let go of that in pain because they were projecting that pain and that fear and that worry and anxiety. And they discovered that when you allow them to get deep below the surface and clear out the triggers, they got to be all of who they really were to be an inspirational leader to really make that difference for their team. And that's what got me specializing in imposter syndrome. Then last year, ditching imposter syndrome, the book came out when I was writing it. I was looking for the latest research. I couldn't find anything that was much more than either a small study or a telephone pole. And so the UK is first large scale research study into imposter syndrome, which has been so useful. So now we've got really clear data on the behaviours, the difference between it and self-doubt, how it gets in people's way, how managers and leaders can spot somebody who's got it. And what we can do to really help people set themselves free rather than doing the sticky plaster kind of mindset. I'm going to pretend I'm okay.

Stephanie

Wow. That's amazing. What an amazing journey. Gosh. And is it the book that then started off your speaking gigs?

Clare Josa

Speaking? No, I've been a speaker for many, many years, but then when I had my kids, I had to stop for a while because a huge number of speaking events are in the evenings. And I wanted to be at home to put my kids to bed. It's one of the reasons I was running my business is I could have that flexibility. So I took a lot of my work online for a few years and I was very fortunate that I was well known as a virtual speaker long before it became the only option chronically over the last year before lockdown. My face-to-face speaking gigs had started ramping back up again and then like so many people in March 2020 in that fateful one week, everything just disappeared.

Clare Josa

And, and we all had it happen. So it was just a pivoting back to the virtual world. I was really lucky. I got to help a lot of teachers to be able to convert their teaching style, to go online because although we all see teachers find it really easy to teach, actually it's quite scary when you put a camera there and a lot of them were freezing. So I got to London, ran lots of workshops like that. I worked with companies on that and that helped build my reputation as a virtual speaker. Now I'm probably about as busy as a virtual speaker, as I would have been had the face-to-face world continued this year.

Stephanie

Oh, that's fantastic. That's good. That's great. And of course, it's something that can scale more easily because you don't have to do all the travelling.

Clare Josa

Exactly, exactly. And it's interesting because a virtual speaking day, that's fine. Takes a lot more energy than being on stage when I'm on stage, you feed off the audience. Yeah. And when it's virtual you have, I find it takes almost twice as much energy. So I've actually reduced the number of speaking gigs. I'll take each month despite not travelling because otherwise, it's just too exhausting.

Stephanie

I completely get you. I feel very much the same when you go online. You know, if it's an interview like this, it's, it's fun and it feeds you. But when you're doing a speaking gig. Yeah. It's like, it's, you know, it's like when you're with real people feed off their energy and you're so full of energy afterwards that, you know, actually you can go home and do a lot more than usual.

Clare Josa

Exactly. And there's a lot to be said for that final read-through of what you're going to present when you're sitting on the train on the way or plane on the way to an event. And then you decompress on the way home and you let it go. And with the virtual, one of the things I've had to work quite hard on is actually having clear boundaries is okay, that event's now finished. I'm not doing anything else for the rest of the day. And sometimes when somebody is contacting me about a speaking gig, they're like, but it's only an hour. And I'm like, no, it's a lot of work to create a really strong hour of content, particularly virtually why you have to make it higher octane. You know, I'm not quite a children's TV presenter, but you have to be a lot more bubbly and effervescent and you have to give the energy to the viewers, to the audience, instead of being able to, to share it between you, it's quite a different skill set.

Stephanie

It's true. And I have seen your online videos and they're absolutely amazing. I'd heard people say how good you are, but I actually watched your videos on your speaking page. And I'm like, yes. And you really, really do a great job.

Clare Josa

Thank you, I'm going to say there's one suggestion. I'd love it. There's one thing I've learned really important over locked down is in the olden days, if, if you're listening and you want to be a speaker or take your speaking to the next level in the olden days, we had to have a speaker reel, which was quick highlights, 30 seconds here, 30 seconds there a few testimonials from people in the audience on a higher, at the end of the session, it had to be beautifully edited together. We'd love you, background music. People don't want them anymore. What they now want to see is that you can hold the audience for an entire session. So what I did is my speaker page. There's a link to it now on every page in my website. Yeah. And it's an image link at the bottom of every article in the sidebar, on everything in the menu bar at the top and at the bottom.

Clare Josa

And I've got two full-length sessions that I'm running. One is a face-to-face session. And one is a virtual session because when they're going to invest in you, and it's not just their money, they're investing, the company's investing their trust and their personal reputation as a Booker in you. They want to see not just the 30-second highlights of a great during that 30 seconds people, won't your name, but you should have seen the rest of it. They want you to have the courage to say here's all of me, including the best way the energy's dead, including the bits where I couldn't say reticular activating system without putting my false teeth in. Yeah. They, you want to see that you're human. And the big thing that I've found with virtual speaking is they want that intimacy. They want people to be able to interact. They don't want you to take what we do on a stage and just put that on a screen.

Clare Josa

They want people to be able to connect with real use. So if you want to do anything on your speaker page, consider getting some stuff that you've done where you've run an online session or you've run even a Facebook live because they want to be able to see in real-time how you do what you do, how you communicate, your message. And that is what I'm getting is feedback is the reason why I've been booked. Yeah. So some, a lot of my work comes from referrals. I've got a very large conference. I'm keynoting at in November, which came from a Google search.

Stephanie

Fantastic.

Clare Josa

Search to my speaker page. So this stuff works, but it's really important for us not to get hung up on perfection. You've seen Stephanie, you know, the talks on my speaker page. They're not perfect, but people love them because they're real. And that's what people want at the moment. Someone they can connect with.

Stephanie

That's right. That's so true. So true. Wow. I can really hear all your experience in there. You really know what really makes a difference. So yes, I definitely encourage you all to go to Clare Josa and have a look at her speaking phage because it's, it's, it's really fantastic. I was like, I don't know how much time I spent on it when I sent you the message for the podcast. But one other, one of the reasons why I contacted you is because I know that my audience suffers from imposter syndrome. Like I do. Of course, I think we all do at some stage. And so I wanted to, to get your help with trying to identify what imposter syndrome is, because we all, we've all heard about it and maybe we suspect we have it, but we're not quite sure. So how would we go about that?

Clare Josa

Okay. So I'd love to start first by briefly talking about the difference between imposter syndrome, self-doubt because people often get the two of them mixed up. Is that okay? Yes. I say we found in the research study in 2019, that there is a really big difference between self-doubt and imposter syndrome. So self doubt, general confidence when people are doubting themselves, they're talking about what they can and can't do when they're talking about imposter syndrome, it's about who they really are. That sense of self. So I talk about the imposter syndrome iceberg, which at the surface, we've got to our actions and our thoughts, our beliefs what's important to us. And that sense of identity, the self-confidence and self-doubt are up there at, you know, the beliefs level. I can do this. I can't do that. Yeah. When you start using, I phrase, who am I to be doing this?

Clare Josa

Who am I to charge that much? Who am I to have that many clients? What if that person realizes I'm not good enough? What if me pitching for this piece of what means they find out I'm a fraud? Anything with I am in is an identity level statement, and that's where imposter syndrome hangs out. So it's the secret fear that they'll find this out, even though we're out, we'll be confident. And I often talk to clients about it being the fear of others, judging us the way we're judging ourselves. That's the essence of imposter syndrome now. Yeah. I have seen when we look at it, like, I think that it's important to be looking at yourself. Talk when you're talking to yourself about something that's a stretch or something you want to grow into or something you want to achieve, or maybe you're doing, you're planning on setting your goals, or you're taking action towards a goal.

Clare Josa

Is that self talk about what you can and can't do in which case go and get yourself some training. Yeah. Okay. My presentation skills might need reading. Great. To find a course. You know, I don't read a book, but if it's about who you are. Yeah. What if they realize they made a mistake hiring me? What if they realize I'm not who they think I am, then that's imposter syndrome and you need a different toolset working at the mindset level and that positive thinking level. That's up there with confidence and self-doubt, right down below the surface, you need to be clearing out the limiting beliefs. You need to get to that identity shift because imposter syndrome in its essence is that ravine, that gap between who you see yourself as being and who you think you need to be to achieve your dreams. And when I work with people on imposter syndrome, normally days we have that gap and we try and build a bridge over the ravine. And the whole time we're walking over that bridge with our coping strategies and our sticky plasters, we're looking down going, it's a very long wait.

Clare Josa

What I do when I work with people, what I teach in the book teaching imposter syndrome is how to close that gap. So there's a ravine and you don't need the bridge and you don't need the sticky plasters because you've allowed yourself to become the version of you for whom creating or achieving that is simply what you do. Amazing. That's what we do.

Stephanie

Of course. So can you help us do that?

Clare Josa

Absolutely. So the first key is to spot the self-talk. Yeah. And it can be hard to spot the self to it because we don't normally pay attention to our inner critic unless it's really yelling. One of the ways you can do that is something I call a flinch factor. So the flinch factor is where you're thinking, okay, I'm going to return that call. Yeah. I've just had a journalist message me. I'm going to phone them as they've asked and something in your body goes.

Stephanie

Yeah. It's like,

Clare Josa

There's a tiny, tiny movement that happens where you kind of look like a hedgehog. Yeah.

Stephanie

That ledge

Clare Josa

The fear is your warning sign. That there's part of you that feels scared about taking that action. So becoming aware of it can often be enough. It's simply then uncurling your shoulders, that breathing out, going okay. Is this really a real fair? Yeah. I talk about legitimate fear, legitimate fear and mine story fair. So legitimate fear is when you're walking along that cliff path and it's really windy and you're too close to the edge and your brain and your body is saying, Claire, move mine story fairs. The stories we tell ourselves, it's the, what if this happens? What if that goes wrong? What if I mess this up? What if they don't like me? What if I don't get the gig? The mind story fair is what's causing us to flinch because usually making a phone call is not going to be a life-threatening situation. So that can't be a legitimate fear.

Clare Josa

The challenge you have is the body feels every thought you think, and it can't tell the difference between the legitimate fear and my story fear. So it fires off the whole stress response. We've heard of the fight-flight-freeze response. Yeah. It gets the adrenaline and the cortisol running. And it means that when you make that phone call or you pitch to that client, or you run that discovery session, the dialogue that's running in the back of your head is what if they didn't like me? What if they realize I'm not good enough? What if I can't help them? What if I'm not good enough to help them? And suddenly the genius that's you can't shine because the fight-flight-freeze response is diverted. The blood flow from the front of your brain has your great ideas to the primal part that only cares about you not being lunch for the sabre tooth tiger.

Clare Josa

And that's why on the call, your mind can go blank because you're in the stress zone. You don't have access to the bit of your brain. That's brilliant at this stuff. And the stress zone really doesn't care about posing that question. It just wants to decide whether you're going to run or whether you're going to climb a tree or whether you're going to freeze and hope the tiger can't see you. So it's really important to start by becoming aware a lot of the little symptoms we can simply breathe out and let go. Then it's going below the surface looking at well, okay, what are the habits I'm running here? What are the beliefs that I need to play? There are questions that I ask people when I work with them that help them understand how they're getting in their own way. And you can actually pinpoint the specific block that's causing you to subconsciously self-sabotage.

Clare Josa

So that's the next stage is clearing that out, going below the surface, it's then looking at the identity level protection where we all, where that, you know, we've all had the experience of putting on that invisible armour so that we can feel safe, or maybe we've

As Entrepreneurs our mindset blocks stop us in our tracks every time we go to the next level. It's a process we have to get used to and learn how to manage.

In this interview I speak to Relinde Moors is a business coach who specializes in using energy work to help entrepreneurs take their companies to the next level of financial success.

Her unique approach enables new and experienced business owners to get into alignment with their vision for their brand and eliminate self-limiting beliefs holding them back.

Relinde’s clients have been able to replace their professional salary within three months of starting their business, grow their companies to seven figures, win awards, and more. She also holds certifications as a yoga, qigong, and tai chi instructor.

Her expertise has been featured in the media on podcasts, such as From Fear to Trust and Real Goddess Revolution and on sites like Thrive Global. As a former professional dancer and award-winning choreographer, she has been featured in Dance Magazine and on Dutch national television. She lives in the Netherlands.

We talked about…

>> How to identify beliefs that block you

>> How to release them

>> How to analyse and work through what's holding you back

Episode Links and Mentions:

The One Thing Freebie

Relinde's website

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Subscribe to this Podcast Here

Optimising you website for search engines and updating it with weekly content is probably the easiest way to create a consistent stream of income in your business.

When done right, and consistently it yields 10x the time and investment you put in - and that's just in the first year!

In this episode, I walk you through the key steps to make sure your content is featured in search engines multiplying your authority and reach.

Episode Links and Mentions:

The blog post where I mention SEO for coaches

The waiting List for the Profitable Content Group Programme (jump on if you want to get the super early bird price) Join here: https://my.stephaniefiteni.com/Profitable-Content-Programme

The Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/BlogTrafficAndSEO

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This week's guest, Steven Logreira, is the founder of the Sales Process Automation Systems.

He is a tech wiz, an automation expert and a seasoned sales professional.

A Computer Engineering Graduate from the University of Florida with a minor in Business Administration. He started his career working for IBM as a Technical Sales Specialist. His forte is automating systems and processes in a way that impacts productivity and boosts revenues.

He is a whiz at creating automated profitable sales processes that save you time and don't let prospects slip through the cracks.

We talked about...

>> The glue between generating leads and closing the sales call, aka your CRM system

>> How to start your CRM system from scratch

>> How to make sure none of your prospects/leads slip through the cracks of your CRM

Episode Links and Mentions:

Automate My Process

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Full Transcript:

Hello, thank you for joining me. You're listening to the profitable content marketing show. In this episode, I speak to my guest, Stephen lo Guerrera, who is the founder of sales process automation systems. He's a tech Wiz, an automation expert, and a seasoned sales professional. I invited him here on the podcast because he is a whiz at creating automated profitable sales processes that save you time.

Prospects slip through the cracks. So if you're a coach, consultant or a service provider, get ready to get, Steven's help creating your CRM system. Let's dive right in.

So hello, Stephan. Thank you very much for being with us today on the profitable content podcast. I have invited Stephen to speak. Because he specializes in helping us close our leads. And as we know for coaches, consultants and service providers, as well as many other businesses, because we all lead needs and we all have to close them, making sure that we close all our leads and not leave any money on the table.

It's very, very important. So Steven is going to help us get through this process today. So Steven, can you help us get to know a little bit better? Hey, Stephanie, how you doing so glad to be here and to be part of your tribe and get hopefully by the end of this talk though, they'll have a little bit more knowledge as to really a very important piece that is, I, I think it's so important and quite often overlooked, you know, in, in, in business.

It's by the Williams, especially I find within the coaches and consultants and service providers, and everybody's focusing on lead generation. How do I, how do I get leads? How do I get leads? How do I get leads? But then what happens with those leads? Right? And then another industry that's really big within, within this is teaching people how to close.

Right. What do you say in the conversation? You know, how do you overcome objections and all that stuff? And there's so much training on that as the same as in the marketing side of things, right? There's this piece in the mood, I call it the glue between lead and actually having that sales conversation.

That's really the sales process. When a lead comes in, how do you manage that lead? How do you keep track of that lead from when it originally comes in all the way to when you have that sales conversation and then out of that conversation, there's three outcomes. Yes, no, maybe if it's yes. Do you actually have a onboarding process?

You know, how do you charge money? How do you get your, the contracts. What are the things that need to happen in order for you to start working with that client? Right. So being able to have all that automated having systems around that it's really, really important. And then of course, if they say no, or they say maybe because no could mean not right now, it could mean maybe I'm not the right person, but you could have someone that you could refer them to.

Right. Or it may say, or if it's maybe not right now, How do you make sure that, that, that, that lead doesn't get dropped on me. I've had clients that because of having a good follow-up system and having automation built into that I, my record is someone that we have been going back and forth for three years.

This was a dentist who was wanting to get out of dentistry and he wanted to launch a coaching business. And because I stayed on top, I kept on sending information. We kept in touch when he was ready to finally launch his first course, because I stayed top of mind. Of course he called me. Okay. Wow. So, so of course you, you help clients with some sort of system.

Is there a particular software that you use? Is it, is there anything you know, is there a specific budget that one needs to have. Well, one of the things that I have seen our clients and it's really important is don't put the cart before the horse, before you start trying to pick, okay, what CRM do I use?

What autoresponder to use, what technology do I use is be really clear on what your process is. What do you want that thing to do? A good analogy is let's say I buy a piece of land and I want to build a house. If I call the contractor and say, Hey, Mr. Contractor, can you build me out? He's going to be like, yeah, absolutely.

Where's the blueprint. Right. So, so really understanding what the blueprint is, what is your process? What are the things that you need to do is the most important part? So the first thing I do when I work with clients is really nail down what their sales process is. And then based on that, we pick the right piece of technology that will do the things.

 That that are needed. So I, I, you know, I can, I can, I can tell you, you know, what CRM or what auto respond or whatever. But you know, there's no one size fits all. Indeed. And what would be the most simple thing, for instance, let's say you're a coach or a consultant, and you're just setting up your first followup processes.

What would be the first thing you would recommend they go on to? So that's because I believe that, you know, the first time you're going to maybe design your process and then use that in the particular software, but it is going to take some time to improve. So maybe going. With the most complicated software may not be a first step.

So would you recommend starting start with something just like a simple automated scheduler? There's also maybe a quick questionnaire so I can know a little bit about them and what their business I can know ahead of time, what you know, what their needs are. Indeed. Yes. Okay. And yeah, let's hope it works a little bit better than today because we're recording this episode and it's 2:00 AM in Canada for Steven, terribly.

Sorry about that. But he was awake and we jumped on and did this anyway. But yes, schedulers can go wrong as well. So do do be careful of that. I'll definitely be having a second look at mine. So Steven once. So once you've got your scheduler in place you are going to need probably a place where you can kind of have some sort of view of who's in your pipeline.

So what are the stages that you would recommend to make sure that you don't forget to follow up with people? You know, you can start with something as simple as it's. And, you know, if you're only getting a few leads a week or a month, it's very easy to be able to keep track of it. But it's just, it's just having a placeholder where you can, where you can be, where you, where you can put those leads that are coming in.

Maybe have some notes around what the conversation is, what the client's needs are. And at some point you're going to outgrow that spreadsheet. What I don't recommend is post-it notes, having notes all over the place and notebooks, because those things tend to get lost and, and, and, you know, I'm a huge proponent of keeping your, your desk nice and clean.

 And not having mess a big mess around you. So, you know, something has said, they'll start with a simple as a spreadsheet or, or an ongoing word document, right? So you can keep track of things that are going on, but as soon as, as soon as you feel that it starts becoming a manageable, then start looking into a CRM.

A CRM stands for customer relationship management system. And then if you're managing what I call your sales pipeline, make sure that it's a sales focused CRM and will allow you to keep track of your leads. So how would you define sales focused something that will allow you to keep track of what stage you're in, in the sales process.

So for example, the first step of the sales process is prospecting which is marketing, right? How do you get. And do networking. You can do webinars, you can do social media. You do. You know what, however it is, are you generating leads? That's a prospect. And so that's the first stage in your sales process.

Once you've identified a potential client, the next step is maybe pre-qualifying them right. To see if there's a fit. Then the next step would be actually, okay. Let's let's contact this person with. Let's see when we can find a time to meet whether in person or online, you know, nowadays with, you know, tools like zoom, which is what we're doing.

We're using for our conversation. I mean, for crying out loud, you're in Malta, I'm in Vancouver, we're worlds apart. And then here we are, right. It's become such a small world, literally. Right. And then eventually having a sales conversation. Right. You know, is this, is this going to be a fit? And then if they say, yes, do you need to send them a contract?

You need to send, give them access to your online courses. Do you give them a, what, what do you need in order to start the relationship? Right? And then every step, every step in that process requires some piece of technology, right. And you know, Yes, you can do without it, when you're first getting started, you know, of course there's a budget and you gotta, you gotta be mindful, but at some point technologies have become your best friend.

Right. So, you know, again, figure out what that process is. Then let's leverage technology. So bringing in some automation and the thing that I stressed so much with people with. If you're not technical, if you're not that type of person, you know, you're in technologists, don't mix hire somebody outsource this, because if, if you try to do it yourself, first of all, it's going to take you longer and it might not get done.

Right. Right. Whereas you can hire someone who yes, you might need to have a budget to hire somebody, but at the end, it's going to get done. Correct. And you know, if something doesn't work, you always call him back, Hey, Steven, this thing isn't working, can you, can you help me fix it? Right. And if it ultimately increases your sales, then you know, it should be an investments worth making.

Definitely. Yeah. It's absolutely. It's absolutely the biggest investment you'll make in your, in your businesses is the origin technology. You know, it's interesting how I started this business was I was actually doing Salesforce. And I was managing things in a spreadsheet. So the first couple of months it was okay.

Then we started tweaking the marketing and got to the point where, I mean, marketing was just going like gangbusters. They were getting 20 to 30 leads a week. Okay. At that level of volume, a spreadsheet, just, it became unmanageable. I was dropping the ball. I was spending probably about 30 minutes per. Just doing admin work.

Right. And because I'm a geek and I've always been my, my background's in engineering, I was like, okay, I, I can't do this. This is taking way too long. So let me first map out. What's my process. What is it that I'm trying to get done here? And let me go find technology to fit into those different parts.

Right. And as a result, I lowered from 30 minutes to five minutes of admin time and literally when not a triple my sales. Wow. That's amazing. So, so that's what this whole process can do for you. I'm interested in a couple, in a couple of details of the process that you mentioned, Steven. Since for a lots of coaches it would be, I think especially the first time they're putting together the system it's would probably be a little bit difficult to perhaps understand clearly how to qualify prospect.

 It's something that I feel a lot of people are not very willing to do in the beginning because they feel, oh, I need to work with as many people as possible. So what's your take on. It depends on what you're trying to accomplish. So for example, if you're trying to figure out who's your, who's your best client?

Who should you be? Who should you be targeting? I think at some point at the beginning, I would say, yeah, talk to everybody because that's going to give you, it's going to give you, it's going to help you gauge. Of who's the right fit or who's not the wrong fit. The thing is, is don't, don't get stuck on that because it's going to burn you out, right.

Once you identify who the right client is, then you know, you got to start asking the hard questions. What's your budget. You know, for me, that's one of the questions I get. I get answered as soon as possible as what's your budget. You know? Cause if, if you're thinking, you know, That, you know, your budget's a hundred bucks, $500, then it might not be a good fit, but you could probably find someone in the Philippines or India or something to, to be able to fulfill that.

Right. So be clear on what your, what the budget is and, and and then, you know, make sure that they're, they're open to, to technology. Right. And that they're not stuck on one thing and that they're open, right? Because there is certain pieces of technology that I do tend to prefer over others. And you know, I think it was Bruce Lee that said, you know, I fear a man that can do One kick that has practiced one kick or one punch 10,000 times, as opposed to the man has done, then those 10,000 punches.

That's right. That's right. So, so being, you know, being able to get really good at one piece of that technology and really being able to support the client in that it is important, but yeah, the press. So I kind of went off on a tangent, but from a prequalification Stanford, those are the things that are really important.

And what's your. Are you ready to work?

Indeed, it sounds it sounds like a, like a very good advice, because of course in the beginning you need to like you said, get to know a little bit to everyone, but of course in the long run that is not feasible. So you do need to make sure that the people you speak to can actually pay your price and that they are also willing to move forward.

Okay. So what do you believe would be the cutoff point in terms of leads volume? Would it be 10 per week when you, you know, can move away from the spreadsheet and start using something a little bit more for more complex? Yeah, I would say, I would say, just look at if, if you're dropping the ball. If you're, if you're like, Hey, you know, I talked to this person two weeks ago and I can't remember what we talked about.

And they said maybe they were ready, but if you feel like you've dropped the ball with one client, now's the time to start automating, to start delving, to leverage the technology, that one person, that one person could cost you, you know, what's your what's, you know, you gotta look at, Hey, how much is this?

How much is each client worth? You know, what's the cost of, you know, if I, if I. You know, know your numbers. If I get one client, how much is that client worth? Is it worth 500,000 is 10,000. Is it worth 50,000? Indeed. So that's very good advice. So if you have already lost a client because you forgot to follow up, then you should definitely take Steven's up and you should check Steven's website and have a look, see if he can help you out putting together your lead systems.

So, Steven, can you let our audience know where they can find you? Yeah. My website is automate my sales process. Excellent. So head over to automate myself process.com and check out Steven's services because he can help you take those leads and make sure you don't leave them on the table. Thank you very much for being with us today.

No leads are left behind. Absolutely. And that's exactly how we want it. No money on the table. Excellent. Thank you very much for being with us today, Steven. And I really look forward to catching up with you again. You're welcome. Thank you so much, Stephanie, for having me.

Finding a profitable niche is not hard.

But it needs to be done right, at the right time.

In this episode, I walk you through the process with examples from my own journey and that of my clients.

Episode Links and Mentions:

The blog post where I mention niching

https://www.stephaniefiteni.com/digital-strategy/digital-marketing-for-coaches/coach-marketing/

Ryan Levesque's Ask Method

https://askmethod.com/

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Prefer to read? Here's the full transcript

Hey, welcome to today's episode. I'm going to talk about niching today and I'm going to share my journey and, you know, the tips that I support my clients with as well, because, you know, niching is not just about finding that special thing that you can do that allows you to charge more later, but also finding that thing that makes you a no brainer in your industry so that you can really grow and scale your business.

Pick the right niche

So how can you make sure that you're picking the right niche? The first thing to do, which is probably a little bit counter-intuitive, is to look inwards, you know, finding your niche is something that you should not look to the competition to the strongest niche you can find is going to be one that your competition hasn't picked. So you need to make sure that it's definitely has a strong overlap with your strengths.

Your experience is your niche

What this means is that your experience, your life experience, not just your work experience is actually your niche. And in fact, this is very common with a lot of coaches and consultants. You know, a lot of coaches especially can find it quite easy to have a look at that motivator, that thing that changed our lives, that made them become a coach and that helped them discover maybe a new part of their life or any part of themselves. And they can actually turn that into something that they offer. For example, my experience is in SEO and building websites and, you know, I used to have my own agency. So, you know, my experience in, in terms of, you know, coding and websites and also writing content is what makes me a little bit different. So a lot of content writers have either a PR or you know, or a writing background.

So they were writers before they actually specifically niche down to blogging. So I came from a little bit of a different background, which of course is going to make me send out. This does not mean that the niche though is going to fit you like a glove. In my case, I had a little bit of a problem. I really wanted to work with coaches because I was so excited about the way I started my business online from scratch. And, you know, when you work within an agency, you tend to take businesses from say point C to point D you don't actually build from scratch. So I was really proud and I was really, I really felt that this was a strength that I had the experience of building a business and international business that was completely started from scratch. So I felt that working with coaches was going to help me really make use of this experience because I had built my own online coaching business, but it didn't fit me like a glove for one particular reason.

My background was technical. And I used to use words that coaches didn't understand. And, you know, this is something that I had to kind of learn to let go of. I had been, I had spent so many years of training, spending a lot of time with programmers and people in marketing. And we don't realize how much of the industry terminology you use without even being aware of it. So this was one of the disadvantages for me, but that didn't mean that it was around the niche.

What have you done that feeds your niche

So the next step to understand if this is the right niche was to see, to have a good look at the past. So the passion index for me, the passion index was really, really high. I love writing. I love technical stuff. I am, I have, you know tiny objects syndrome. So I'm always in the note when, when it counts to the latest tools that have come out and how you can use them, you know, all the Google algorithm updates and stuff like that, because, you know, I would do that for free.

I don't need to be paid to do that, so that a very nice overlap, of course, the writing was a big part of it as well. If I was going to sell blogging, then it doesn't apply to everything, but it applies to most things. You have to do what you preach. So of course, I had to pick something where I can be seen to do what I preach because I love doing it and I'm not going to stop doing it. So this, I knew that my niche was a commitment for the long Sam and my passion was a very big element. So, you know, the overlap of your passion is really important. Now at the stage comes the point where you can, and you should look at your competitors, have a look at your industry, understand what other people are getting paid for.

Competition and your niche

Especially when it comes to coaches and consultants. There are a thousand different titles out there. Some of them can be a bit vague, avoid that, try to be very specific and clear when you name yourself, by the way, you name yourself, of course, it's going to depend highly on the niche that you pick. So make sure that you can see others in other fields, even if they call themselves something different to what you would like to call yourself. But if they're doing something similar to what you would like to do, and they are actually getting paid for it, yeah. You can see that they have clients. You can see that they are busy. You can see that they have an audience. Then that is proof that your niche has business viability. You can see that it's as viable and that it will grow another interesting way, which I have.

I have actually learned from Ryan Levesque the guy who wrote the book, The Ask Method, he talks about also verifying your niche. And although there is an audience for a particular type of business by looking and comparing search results on search engines like Google and YouTube. And yes, I definitely recommend this too. So I would say definitely if you want to see if there is a market, find some people who are doing what you would like to do, who are specifically in your niche or something really, really close to it and have a good look at the YouTube channels. Have a look ideally use also a keyword tool because the keyword tool is going to help you understand whether there is traffic for a specific niche. For instance, when I was looking for my niche, actually one of the main keywords was marketing for coaches, and that was a really, really good keyword.

But I felt that it was a little bit too generic when it comes to, you know, the way I wanted to describe myself. However, the fact that it has so much traffic and it's, you could also see that it was a keyword that was going to convert. Well, it made me realize, you know, that probably a number of niches in that particular sector were going to be pretty lucrative. And finally, I would like to also clarify perhaps one last point, then once you have decided what your niche is going to be, you're going to really have to hone in and decide who your ideal client is going to be. The best niches are the ones where you can have a number of different products that serve the same ideal client at different points in their customer journey because this will allow you to add more offers at a later stage and then, you know upsell or down-sell the same people.

And of course, this is going to save you a lot on marketing. So niching only down to ideally one target, persona, or ideal client avatar as we sometimes call it does not mean that you're going to turn other people away. What it means is that your marketing is going to be specifically focused on attracting one type of person. Of course, you will also attract other people who have the same problems or wants the same benefits. And it doesn't mean that you have to turn them away. It only means that your website and your social media and all your marketing efforts are going to be very highly focused. And they're going to help you position yourself in a market where your ideal client sits and wants to find somebody like you. And the next point is my favourite because I am a bigger picture sort of person.

And I really liked to, you know, look ahead and plan the future plan. What's coming and plan, you know, where things are going to go in the next three, four, five years. So when you pick your niche, try to make sure that your niche actually allows you to raise your prices. So the first obvious thing to look out for is how big of an impact is your business or your service or your products going to have on somebody's life? Is it a big impact? Is it a small impact? Is it something that makes them money? Is it something that makes them happy if you did something that you know is very difficult to find without someone's help? All of these things are going to make sense, something that you can put a good price on. And I'm not saying that as soon as you niche down, you have to put your prices up.

Right niche, right pricing, great messaging

You could try, but that's not what I'm suggesting. I'm suggesting that of course, you build up your prices slowly, but of course, you need to make sure that you're going to have a large impact in the sense that, you know, if you're selling something that is different, but doesn't have a high impact on somebody's life, then it's still going to be a little bit difficult for you to charge high prices. So, one good way to find out is also by looking at how much money your ideal target persona has and you know, how much they value, what you're going to offer them. So what's your initial going to look like? Well, niching is going to be a way of making people go to your site and say, okay, yes, this person is for me. What do you want to make sure is that it gives you a very good lens to look at everything that you're looking in, you're doing in your marketing. So everything you're doing has to say to your special niche, ideal client avatar. It's got to tell them this has been specifically designed for you. If you can achieve that with a group of people that really value what you do, then you're on your way to starting a really profitable business in a great niche.

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My guest in this episode is Colin Gray, he's a podcaster, international speaker, PhD and founder of The Podcast Host and Alitu: The Podcast Maker. Colin started out in Astrophysics, before realising, to his dismay, how much maths you had to do. Podcasting has less maths, but just as many puzzles, and fun ones at that.

He started ThePodcastHost.com in 2011, and it's now one of the biggest and oldest Podcasting blogs on the web, dedicated to helping you create a successful show.

He went on to found Alitu.com in 2018 to help podcasters create their shows more easily. It's a web app that takes care of the tech, by polishing, branding & publishing for you. It offers a custom set of tools for building and editing epic podcasts.

Episode Links and Mentions:

https://alitu.com

https://www.thePodcastHost.com/academy/

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Prefer to Read? Here’s the Transcript:

Stephanie:

Hello, thank you for joining me. You're listening to the profitable content marketing show. In this episode, I talk to Colin Gray about podcasting. If you've not heard of Colin before he is known as the podcast host, and he is a speaker, as well as the owner of a podcasting school. I met Colin in London around three years ago. He was speaking at the Youpreneur summit event. I believe it was actually the first event. And I got talking to Colin after his speaking gig. And I just love his down to earth approach. And the way his tips are just so doable. And this interview, we talked about, you know, how to stay consistent and how to improve your productivity as well as you know, it's not just the tips very often. It's also the tools we use. So Colin also shares this amazing tool. So if you are planning to start a podcast or you're podcasting already, but want to get faster and more productive, well, this episode is for you. So thanks for joining. Let's jump right in and hear what Colin has to say to him.

Colin:

Hi there. Thanks for having me on,

Stephanie:

Thank you very much for joining us. So Colin, I know that you actually teach podcasting, so you have a wealth of information to share with us. So I wanted to start by asking you one of the most common questions I hear, as you probably know I work with a lot of bloggers and content creators, so, and business owners. So we talk a lot about finding your voice when it comes to writing and making sure that you are authentic. Whereas with podcasts, of course, the actual voice can be heard. So we're talking also about, you know, perhaps excellence or lack of accent sometimes. Yes. What kind of advice do you give about this? Usually?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's, it's a tricky one and it's one of, it's definitely one of the most common things that come up. Like you say, it applies to just any content out there, but with podcasting, obviously voice, voice is so important because it's your voice that's actually been recorded. The advice I generally give is that podcasting is such a great medium because just about anyone can find fans for their voice. They can find somebody that will like the way they speak, the way they act, their ethos, their personality, all of those aspects. So the key thing really is to be yourself. And it's easy to say that I know, but the being yourself thing is so important because it's so much hater, so much harder to hight behind the mic. And it's so much easier, to be honest, transparent, open behind the making. I think the thing is with, you know, with blogging, you're kind of, you're hiding behind your typewriter.

Colin:

It's hard to get your typewriter by going back to the 1950s ranger keyboard. And it's much harder to, you know, in say emotion to, to really truly be yourself when you're typing. Then when you speak, when you speak, you're much more like yourself. So then we've got video and audio, but video, there's something about looking at a camera. There's something about that screen in front of you that, you know, it's, it's quite hard to be informal, to be yourself, to be honest. So then you come to podcasting and you have this microphone in front of you, and you're just speaking to an individual and it's so much easier, to be honest and transparent and all that stuff. So your self seems to come out. The thing that people struggle with though, as being natural on the microphone. And one thing that helps with that I find and being natural and being yourself is to start to think about that listener.

So start thinking about an individual as the key thing. You're not speaking to a crowd, you're not speaking to a hundred, a thousand, a million people out there. You're speaking to one person. So you should always say on the make like, hi there, how are you doing? How are you today? It's not, Hey guys, how are you all doing? It's how are you today? I'm speaking to you when you want to do this, you do this. When I want you to do that, you do that. It's an individual and something, a attract that I learned a long time ago. And I know a lot of people use is to have something to focus on behind me. So you'll have a photo, possibly a lot of people put a photo on the wall behind their microphone that they can look at, and that represents their ideal listener and maybe a real person that they know, or it might be, you know, a fictional character, an avatar, a persona that they've created that is their ideal customers are idealistic, but it's somebody that you can look at and just imagine you're speaking to that person.

And that little thing tends to meet you much more natural on the make because you know who you're speaking to, it's a conversation as opposed to a monologue. And it just helps you a lot with being yourself. I think the other thing, the last one, I'll just say there is I've seen people use soft toys for that. So you've got your favorite Teddy child. They set that behind the mate and you've got your, your Teddy that you're speaking to. And as a person, you know, it's a personality in your head and that's who you're speaking to little things like that. So having something, someone, some, you know, I think to talk to, because all the difference when you're trying to find your voice, but does that make sense? Definitely. Just around. It's just, it's just, it's personal. So it's just being yourself on the,

Stephanie:

And it absolutely makes sense. In fact, when I started creating online videos, I just could not even, you know, keep looking at the camera. That's what I used to do. I had pictures of my first clients and I used to put them, I used to put them on, on, on the screen at the top. In fact, I ended up running my cameras, taking them because I used to stick them onto the actual Mac camera, the front. But yeah, I suppose it's like you said, though, in this case, you cannot, it's not like a presentation. You don't imagine a group. You need to imagine that one person because it's a very intimate medium and you're in people's ears so it takes a different approach.

Colin:

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It's that one to one thing. And so many people don't do it as well as so many people. You hear them say it to start the podcast. Hey guys, welcome to the show. I hope you're all doing well out there. And I immediately break that intimate one-to-one personal connection. You're not speaking directly to the person. So it is really important. It does make a difference.

Stephanie:

Indeed. Absolutely. In fact, I think for that reason, I find that people with sort of very fancy loud intros kind of put me off.

Colin:

Yeah, yeah. Yes. It's not, it's not themselves as it. It's no, it's often somebody else that began to do, and that's not that works on TV. It works in film because it's like, it's a big production it's made to be dramatic by a podcast as a conversation. It's a, it's an intimate conversation. One to one you're learning from this individual. It's not a company. It's not a brand might be a personal brand, arguably, but it's a personal brand personal to you and personal to that person. So. Absolutely. Yeah. It's just, it's that intimate connection you're looking for.

Stephanie:

Indeed. And speaking of personal brands, I would really like to hear actually your take about that. Is it, do you find that it's valuable to certain types of businesses more than others, you know, having their own podcast and repurposing that content?

Colin:

I think it's, it's really, it's valuable to anyone. I believe to have some kind of a personal brand around the business, whether it's are a bank business that has a figurehead or you know, just a personality within it to kind of convey the ethos of that company. Like some of the obvious examples, being things like Apple with Steve jobs, you know, when he was still an Apple, he was the kind of, he wasn't the only person running it. We knew that it wasn't Steve Jobs that ran the whole of Apple built the computers, but he kind of conveyed the personality, his perfectionism, all that kind of stuff, just that the quality of the care that goes into the product. So it's that personal brand conveyed the ethos of the company, similar with other people that have sort of lay its companies that become the figurehead of that company, but even more important, I think with small companies like if you run a small business or you're an individual, the way to compete with the larger companies or with the slew of other small companies out there is your personality, it's your approach, it's your ethos, your values.

That's why somebody will choose like one, you know, Baker in a high street over another it's because there'll be nor the person behind the counter and they'll have talked to them and they'll like them, you know, trust them just because they know this person. So it's extra valuable to small companies, I think, and particularly small companies that are in relatively saturated markets. So a good example of that might be something like a, a solicitor, so Lester's office. So we work with a company called black counters, which are us Lester in Scotland, and they could be lost in the kind of the world of, of solicitor legal, all that stuff is it's a world that doesn't have much personality in a lot of ways. So they create a podcast which puts their personality out there. There's three of them often come into podcasts. They're really funny guys.

They create a really great podcast called employment lawyer in your pocket, which talks about how to run employment law. It's like, it's the driest subject ever, but because they are passionate about it, cause they're so knowledgeable about it. And because they have such a great team you know, chemistry, they make it entertaining. They make it funny, they make it useful. And so suddenly people that listened to that podcast immediately, they're going to go to black actors because of the personality that comes out there because they know that people ended, they trust those people. So that kind of personal brand that's where it's most valuable to me is that those industries often don't have much personality, a lot of competition and really need that differentiation.

Stephanie

That sounds great. And how many funny lawyers can you find really?

Colin:

Well, I don't like to, you know, the whole industry, but not as far as I know.

Stephanie:

Yeah, yeah. Especially when they're at work. I don't think they're allowed to be funny at work. So, you know, there's this, this persona they have to live up to. So that sounds really great. That's a great way to send out. It's definitely Colin. I know that's, our audience is always into creating better systems and automation and you know, so that they can reach more people with spending less time of course, on their content. So do you have any, any, any tips? Yeah. I know that you have a course about podcasting, right? So you help people set up. Do you have any, any, any tips that you feel could really help people, you know, set up their systems more easily and maybe automated a little bit more, some lists something that's not very well known?

Colin:

Yeah. I mean, I'm afraid actually there's, a lot of people are looking for magic bullets and this kind of stuff around how to get this thing out there every week. There's, there's a couple of things actually. I mean, the base of it is that really, you just have to set a time every single week as your regular podcasting time. If you have a full-time job, if that has to be 8:00 PM on a Tuesday evening, every single week, then that's what you have to do. If you're passionate about this, you want to get out there. That's what you have to do. But if you can set aside some time during your day, like if you can integrate it into your work, if you can really prioritize it, that's the thing it's like, do you want to go all-in on this or no?

Like, do you think it's worthwhile or not? If you think it's worthwhile, then put a time in your calendar the same way you would a meeting with your accountant or, you know, a meeting with a client it's that non-negotiable, you just have to put it in there and you need to stick to it. The kind of the less obvious things I suppose, firstly, is to just make it really, really simple. The biggest killer of podcasts is complexity is it's making a podcast that's that takes too long to create, you know, if you're going to end up taking eight hours a week to make podcast, that's when it's going to drop off the map because it's just too much to sustain. So start out by making it really short and simple, for example, do a solo show of 10 minutes once a week, that's going to take you an hour to do, because it's just, you know, five minutes of planning because it's just you, you're the only person you have to control 10 minutes of recording.

Cause again, it's just you, there's no organizing appointments, meetings, all that kind of stuff. And then, because it's just you as well, you can use some editing techniques to make editing really quick and simple. For example, one trick is to use clicks. So whenever I'm recording a solo podcast episode, if I make a mistake more often than not, I'll just brush past, I'll say, Oh, that's not what I meant to say. Sorry, what I meant was blah, blah, blah. That's fine. That's part of the personality for sure. But if it's a mistake that just can't stand, what I'll do is I'll pause and I'll go, just click my tongue and microphone, or you can clap. You can clap your hands. And basically as long as you pause either side of it, that shows up really, really clearly on the timeline in your editor. You'll see these spikes three spikes.

So your 15-minute episodes, you don't have to listen all the way through all you do as you load it into your editing package or mentality, which is our editing package as well. You drop it in there and you just scroll through the way form and you'll spot these clicks. You'll spot these spikes really easily. You can just cut either side. You can start to match up the words either site. For example, I often it's really easy to do this once you've practised, but you can, you can restart. So if I make a mistake, usually I can remember the start of the sentence I made the mistake on. You know, I've only just said it. So it's still in my head. So I can remember the first few words and it means you can match up those words really easily, really quickly. Just two quick cuts takes maybe 30 seconds or a minute for that edit and it's done.

So when you're recording solo, even when you're recording interviews, that kind of stuff, you can do that kind of editing tactic quite easily, but that really kind of that trick can help you save a lot of time. But also it's just the concept of keeping things as simple as possible, as easy as possible, trying to add it as little as possible under no circumstances, editing out your arms and your ass and your, that kind of stuff. Like it's just, just get better at speaking, just keep doing it and commit to getting better at it. And if you leave them in and will be good motivation to get better at those things like to get rid of those items in the ass and you'll, you'll sit here, your vocal text pretty quickly and built to get rid of them quite easily. So that certainly that's a big part of it for me as the chef, the time every single week, I used to keeping it simple as humanly possible using editing tricks like that, to make the editing and production really simple as well. And I think we're going to come on to tools. Aren't we? So using tools as well, which can, can save you time as well.

Stephanie:

Indeed. In fact, I would quite confidently say that our listeners are quite tool-hungry. They're always looking for that. As you said, the next silver bullet to make things just a little bit faster, just a little bit, perhaps easier to delegate. Yeah. So I know you have a tool, right. And it's of course connected to podcasting. So what does it do and how does it help podcasts?

Colin:

Yeah. So for anyone that really wants to, you know, take away a lot of the tech and podcasting, like it's possible certainly to learn how to edit, how to produce, how to do noise reduction, how to do compression, how to get your volumes, all right. Convert from one file to the next, all that stuff. It's certainly possible. It's not like super difficult, but it takes time. It takes a bit of technology and that's what altitude does. It takes care of all the take he says to that. It helps you build your podcast. So you upload your video, whether it's an intro, whether it's an interview recording like we're doing just know Alex who does all the cleanup. So automatically it does levelling, it does noise reduction. It does harm reduction. So it makes it all sound good. Then you can edit. So the resonating a tool in there, so you can cut the steaks, you can spot those fakes and like cut out the bits you want.

You can build an episode so you can bring in reusable segments. Like if there's an advert you're running for a month, you can have that in your line, buddy, and just drop it into your episodes. Or if there are a segment and troll-like a little jingle that you use all the time, you can have that in your library, drop it into the episode as well. And you can record your intro as an actress, straight into the app too. And in finally you export it and you can publish. And we publish direct to at least eight or nine of the best podcast hosting platforms right now and growing that retain. So we can publish rate to Libsyn, to blueberry, to bus sprouts. It will captivate all the rest of them. So that's the process that basically makes that making your podcast part really simple. You do your recording, you drop it down to your mic, the short, and it pushes it to your, to your publishing platform.

Stephanie:

That sounds fantastic. That sounds really cool. You don't have to worry about all the different platforms and also the fact that you can edit and have it cleaned up, I believe is, is a very good thing. I mean, of course, a lot of people who do podcasts are not professional editors.

Colin:

Or going to invest in becoming one

Stephanie:

That's right. It's not something that I think a lot of, a lot of people can do, so that's great. So where can we find the tool?

Colin:

Yeah, you'll find it [email protected]. So it's [inaudible] dot com.

Stephanie:

Excellent. And is there a free trial we can use

Colin:

There? Isn't DGA. Yeah. So it's...

Personal Branding for individuals doesn't need to be hard. In this Episode, Sage Polaris previously known as Sarah Grear shares how she transitioned into her new business persona.

She also shares her journey around pivoting from a client-based business to a mentoring/coaching business. She explains how her systems and team allow her to take 4 months off a year. (no not a typo 4 full months a year!)

Sage Polaris (AKA the artist formerly known as Sarah Grear) has written high converting copy for more than 350 clients earning them millions of dollars. She helps personal brands and service providers sell more of their service or offer with the words on their website.

Her emails and sales pages are responsible for generating as much as 7 figures in a single launch. She has worked with Chrisette Michele, James Wedmore, Rick Mulready, and Amber McCue. Basically, she makes money for the “internet famous” people we all look up to.

And in turn, has been an international speaker in exclusive private Masterminds. She can SHOW your audience how to go from storytelling to story-selling. This is what truly makes a brand legendary.

You can find Sage at http://www.sagepolaris.com

Episode Links

Sage's Free Gift

www.sagepolaris.com/profitable

Todd Hermann's Book - Alter Ego:

https://www.amazon.com/Alter-Ego-Effect-Identities-Transform-ebook/dp/B075WPWMSK

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Sage: (00:57)

Today we have Sage Polaris. Hello Sage. Thank you for joining us. Hey Steph. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here. We're very excited to have you. Sage is a launch strategist to the online stars and she is a workless earn more mentor and we are very excited to hear more about working less, of course, but before we jump in, say I actually have a something that I know that my audience is very curious about because a lot, a lot of the people I deal with are women. And sometimes the question of the ego and this persona that we put out there and alongside imposter syndrome becomes a big thing. So I'm really interested in the fact that you, you actually changed your name to Sage Polaris, which is a fantastic name, but I would really like to know the story behind that.

Sage: (01:57)

Sure. Yeah. So I'm Sage to the artist formerly known as Sarah Grear. And the reason I decided to change my name is I was really stepping into a new identity in my business. I'm eight years deep into my business now and around like the six-year Mark, I realized that I no longer wanted to hide behind my client's success. I was doing a lot of client-based projects. They were having wonderful success with their launches. It was so beautiful to see, but I knew I was kind of hiding behind that and not really stepping out into my own identity. And so I decided to switch my name because I felt like it would signify something from myself like, okay, I'm not hiding anymore. I'm going to go into the spotlight, and since then I have been doing more, of my own launches for myself.

Sage: (02:49)

I've also created co-created mastermind with my business partner, Tarzan Kay, which was a hundred per cent event that we ran in Niagara falls and then turn that into a mastermind. So all of these things were a way for me to kind of signal to myself and to everyone else that I was taking on a new identity for myself and my business. And it's really been beautiful to see how I am perceived differently now. And it's like, it's basically a new, a new brand that I've created for myself. And it's been really fun to see how it's all played out.

Stephanie: (03:24)

Oh, wow. So, so you have felt the difference.

Sage: (03:28)

Yeah, definitely. I, well, for me, like also there's a lot of incredible artists that I really love out there who created their own identities. Like if you think about Sean Carter is Jay Z or Banksy, like we don't even know his real identity. He chose his own identity. I really admire artists who decide that they are going to inform how people perceive them in the world. So that was another thing. Like I was inspired by all these artists, Macklemore, his real name is Ben something. So like all these artists out there who choose their own identity, I was like, well, I can do that too. So, and then they create all this incredible work and I really see like working on launches is very creative work. So it's been very fun for me to step into this new identity.

Stephanie: (04:15)

Yeah. That sounds like a lot of fun. Actually. I'm just finishing off Todd Herman's Alter Ego. I don't know if you've heard of the book and I actually heard Todd speak, a couple of months ago and I was just intrigued by this idea of creating an alter ego and stepping into this new persona. So yeah. It's, it's great to see that it works.

Sage: (04:39)

Yeah, totally. It's fun. And it's just a way for people to perceive you in a new light. And so it's been really cool to see like how interested and intrigued people are by the change. That's been fun. Like it wasn't something I expected, so yeah.

Stephanie: (04:57)

Yes, indeed. Of course. Cause you, you would probably of course worry. You know, did you have any worries and facts about, you know, maybe losing the audience before, you know, did you think that maybe some people may not like the change?

Sage: (05:10)

No, I didn't think too much about like how people would perceive it, but I will say like I sent an email to my list that said, don't call me Sarah anymore. And that's my biggest ever opened email. So it's like, I knew right away that like people were very open to it. And so I think it's been for me, like a very positive thing. I didn't really feel any concern or worry about what other people would consider, you know, it's my choice, my business, my identity I get to choose. So the only thing I knew is that like my family members would, they, they definitely laugh at my expense. Yeah. And it's fine. Like when I wanted, I remember when I first started my business, around like 2013, 2012, 2012. And in 2012, like I wanted to dye my hair, green and family members were like, nobody's going to hire you if you dye your hair. And I was like, I'm going to do it anyway. And it's kind of the same thing with the name change. Like eventually they'll come on board, it will work on them, but for now, it's like, I get it. Like it's changed and it'll take the time to get used to it.

Stephanie: (06:22)

Yes, indeed. Fortunately, things work a little bit differently in online business, so you can get away with a lot more stuff like green hair. Yeah, totally. And I, it was a way to

Sage: (06:34)

Signify to myself that I wasn't going to be going back to working in a corporate environment or at a job environment. So it was just like, this is another way for me to step into this next phase and stage of my business

Stephanie: (06:47)

And then great. Then that's, it's so much more fun. And in fact, I wanted to touch on this great line I read on your Facebook page. It says you are the escape from client-based biz-jail. And I just love that because I actually run my own agency with my husband for over 10 years. So I really know what that means apart from all the clients. Of course, I also had a brick and mortar business with lots of employees in the office. So I am totally with you. And I would really like to hear sort of how this ties in with the work-less and earn-more mentoring that you do. And, you know, I believe you also do masterminds and events around this.

Sage: (07:36)

Yeah, totally. So basically the idea of escaping from client-based business jail is something that I came up with because I saw a lot of people who were starting their client based businesses online. And they would be at like stage one of their business. They were getting, you know, leads and depending, highly on referrals and building out their businesses in that way. And what I noticed is that eventually they would get burned out on the client work. Like it just would be too much. They, they weren't putting systems into place to better serve those clients. And so a lot of them would just skip to stage three. So in stage one is they're getting referrals. They're working on working with clients and they're trying to get as many clients as they can. And then often they cap themselves at a certain amount of clients cause they're still trading maybe dollars for hours or whatever it is.

Sage: (08:27)

And then they try to go to stage three and they skip stage two, which I'll tell you about in a minute. But stage three is essentially like launching courses and they're like, okay, I'm burnt out on client work. I'm just going to go do some kind of one-to-many program that will alleviate this issue. And I see a lot of people do this and often they will pivot their entire business. They'll go from, okay, I'm no longer serving clients. I'm just going to do courses now. And I actually don't recommend going from stage one to stage three in between that is stage two. And stage two is creating systems around your client based work so that you don't have to be as involved in the work, but you don't walk away from a profitable revenue stream in your business. So you continue to serve clients, but you have systems that make that service a lot easier on you so that you have the time and the money to invest in stage three.

Sage: (09:22)

I'm not saying don't launch a course. I'm just saying before you do that, don't walk away from your profitable revenue stream and you can do much better with those clients and feel like it's not so intense if you first build out some systems for it. And one of those systems that I put into my business was I committed to taking four months off every year. And I've done that now for the fourth year in a row. And that system, I know I love it. That system is very simple. So basically one week off every month and then one month off every year, total to four months for the year. So I'm not taking like four consecutive months off. But once I put that system in place, my team was on board. We had the scripts, the templates, the things that the clients needed, the intake forms. So that even when I'm gone, this work is still being done. My team is still supporting it. But I can take some time to kind of put my head back into the creative clouds and just, you know, I'll do staycations or some fun things for myself. Sometimes I'll travel, but those things have really helped me to be excited to be away from my desk and be excited to be back at my desk.

Stephanie: (10:37)

Yes that's okay. It helps to keep the energy up definitely with, with so much time off. So what would your support team look like? You know, so to allow you to actually step away for a whole week a month.

Sage: (10:49)

Yeah. So now my team has built out quite a bit in the very beginning. Like I started small and I wasn't taking one week off every month. I was taking one day off a month. That was it in the beginning. And the very first person that I hired in my business was a bookkeeper. But then, that wasn't really alleviating the client work. It did help some with like tracking things in terms of client work. But then I hired a VA for five hours a month, $16 an hour. So $80 a month total. And that was my way of like testing the waters of having support. And then after that, I really started ramping up. The next hire that was really important for me was a project manager. So someone who could track all of the clients and the projects and the intake forms and the deliverables that really helped me to be able to step out of the work as much and let a writing team and a project manager support me.

Sage: (11:51)

So I wasn't the only one doing the writing for the clients. I was still quality control on everything. So I was making sure that everything was optimized for conversions and that the sales page and the emails, like nothing would get passed to the client without me looking at it for hours. And I was still on all of the meetings for clients. So I'm still showing up on video doing live edits with them so that I really made sure I wasn't missing a beat when it came to delivering a product that the client needed. So those were some of the people I had on my team since then. I've definitely expanded even more. One of the main things I've started doing more of, I mentioned earlier, I had that a hundred percent event and Niagara falls. So I started doing more speaking. So then I wanted a speech writer to support me, and of course, like a makeup artist and a photographer. So those are some more people that I've hired on to my team and everybody's subcontracted. So when we're working on projects, we're working together and then when there are no projects, I encourage them to build their own team, their own businesses and do other projects as well.

Stephanie: (12:58)

That's right. That's amazing. So you're, you're helping them do what you've done for yourself. That's great.

Sage: (13:06)

Oh yeah. And I encourage them, like if you outgrow me quickly and you need to go do your own thing, go for it. So I'm really grateful.

Stephanie: (13:14)

Uh, that's great. It's, it's great to be in a position to do that. In fact, one of the things I find that, I have found maybe more in brick and mortar businesses, so more people who don't have a totally online business, they kind of take a long time to find the right hires and then they become a little bit scared of losing them. But like Richard Branson says you've got to train people and have great relationships with them and just, you know, push them with

Sage: (13:44)

Yeah. A hundred per cent. Yeah. I wish everybody to have even more. I definitely had people who were on my team for a short amount of time and then went on to have even faster success than I have. And I love seeing it. I'm like cheering them on I'm in your corner. That's awesome.

Stephanie: (14:01)

You ended up mentoring your own suppliers. Yeah. So, excellent. I'm still curious. You were going to mention your stage two.

Sage: (14:13)

Oh, okay. Yeah. So stage two, was putting systems into your business. So that's where, yeah. Where you're either outsourcing hiring or you're using better project management systems. Those areas really help you to serve your clients better. And one thing I hear people talk about when they are looking to build out stage two of their business. So like, okay, I hear you. I need to hire support. And I'm thinking about if you're like, for me, I'm a copywriter. And if I'm going to hire another writer, the concern often is, well, are they going to do as good a job as I did on creating things. And I actually am of the mindset that they often will come up with ideas that are better than mine, because there is more people, more like it's a group think. And when you get all of those minds together, better ideas come up just from having more brains on it. Right. So I am of the opinion that the work doesn't suffer, the quality actually gets better when you hire a team.

Stephanie: (15:20)

Absolutely. I totally agree with you. Yeah. The more people pitch in the better, there are always, however, sort of, I deal with mostly, you know, coaches, copywriters, marketers, people who are sort of at that stage where maybe they have their first hire or they're just before. So, most of our listeners are probably at that phase. I find that a lot of people have this sort of fear of two things, you know, charging enough to be able to afford to hire somebody and maybe sort of waiting for the right time to hire somebody when you don't know what the right time to hire your first hire really is. So do you have any advice on how to actually know when the right time is?

Sage: (16:10)

The systems in your business

Yeah. So in terms of knowing when you need the support, honestly, I feel like it's best to test out a little bit of support and see how it feels for you instead of going on like a binge hiring spree and getting too many people on your team. But what I look at are the profit sweet spots in business. So essentially look at all your revenue streams and see where is your highest revenue coming from? And then I would start there in terms of where to invest and when to invest if you can see that your profits are coming in. And there's enough there. I usually break it down by percentage. So, 10% for admin, 30% for the facilitator, 30% for the creator and 30% for marketing. And I work on flat-rate projects, right? So if I have a flat rate and I can cover some of those percentages with a customer with, so with someone supporting the project, then it helps me because I can see like how much I should be investing in that project.

Sage: (17:20)

So really as you and I know people raise their prices to overtime, right? So as you raise your prices, you should build in these expenses so that it's covered as you serve these clients. And for me, like when I see my clients are getting big results from our work together, that is a clear indicator to me that I should get more support in that specific area, because I know that the profits are going to keep happening. They're going to keep getting the results. I'm going to keep getting referrals from that. And so it's a good time for me to support that revenue stream with a team. And in terms of like dollar amount, like, I feel like for people who are making anywhere between six and 10,000 a month, like that's a good time to start getting that support. That was kind of the threshold I hit, where I was getting up to like 6,000 a month or more, or I was like, okay, I need this support. And I knew it would serve me because then I could spend my time going out and getting more clients. So that was definitely worth it for me once I got to that level of my business.

Stephanie: (18:34)

Excellent. Excellent. Sounds really great. So your business today is divided between mentoring and creating events as well as the done for you business. So how, how do you balance that in terms of, so now how much time do you spend mentoring?

Sage: (18:56)

Yeah. So what I've decided in my businesses, I took way fewer private clients that I'm serving. And I started doing VIP days with my clients. So some of my clients who come to me who need like a full launch overhaul, they need all of their copy redone from top of funnel to bottom of funnel. Those clients take more time to serve. So I take way fewer of those. And what I've done is I added a VIP day, which is something I learned about from my business partner, Tarzan. Kay. She calls it a day rate, but basically for those clients who I couldn't get them in because they, I was already booked for some bigger projects, I would then offer them a day where

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