Our Public Lands

In this episode, I interview Sam Forstag, a former Missoula-based Forest Service smokejumper and union local vice president now running for Congress in Montana’s 1st District, motivated by DOGE-related cuts that fired many of his co-workers and by frustration with Rep. Ryan Zinke’s lack of response. Forstag shares his upbringing, education at the University of Montana, and eight years in firefighting, arguing that gutting agencies leads to privatization, higher costs, and weaker public-land stewardship. Our conversation covers money in politics, Citizens United, tax-code inequities, and healthcare. We debate and discuss public lands issues around wildfire strategy, WUI priorities, fuels work, NEPA timelines and staffing, logging versus local milling capacity, roadless-rule repeal, and the Northern Rockies Ecosystem Protection Act.

“Fuel Reduction” Logging Exacerbates Wildfire Effects and Puts Communities at Greater Risk

Rising wildfire risk to houses in the United States, especially in grasslands and shrublands

Home hardening and defensible space can halve wildfire damage, study finds

A More Effective Approach for Preventing Wildland-Urban Fire Disasters Jack Cohen, PhD; Research Physical Scientist; US Forest Service, retired

Northern Rockies Ecosystem Protection Act

03:55 DOGE Cuts Spark Campaign

06:57 Unionizing The Forest Service

09:49 Organizing Spreads To NPS

13:56 Money In Politics

17:19 Healthcare Medicare Choice

22:22 Why Run For Congress

26:31 Life As A Smokejumper

28:31 Letting Fire Burn

31:42 WUI Home Hardening Debate

33:09 Fuels Work And Logging Nuance

36:26 Fuels Treatments

38:03 Home Hardening

41:33 WUI Definition

44:48 NEPA Timelines and Courts

53:18 Local Timber Milling

01:01:00 Restoration Jobs With NREPA

01:04:24 Roadless Rule Under Threat

In this episode, I interview Alison Fox, executive director of American Prairie, about the organization’s 25-year effort to build a 3.2-million-acre grassland reserve anchored by the 1.1-million-acre Charles M. Russell National Wildlife Refuge. Ali describes on-the-ground restoration including a bison herd grown from 16 animals to nearly 1,000, fence modification/removal, stream work, junk removal, and prairie dog restoration, plus wildlife successes like swift fox reintroduction and grizzly sightings. Our conversation centers on BLM’s proposed reversal of a 2022 decision allowing bison grazing on seven allotments they lease in Phillips County, introducing a new “production” standard under the Taylor Grazing Act that could affect other bison permittees and tribal herds; American Prairie has protested and is preparing further challenges while contingency-planning for herd relocation. Ali also discuss public access and hunting programs, local reactions and misconceptions, donor criticism, tribal partnerships, and a closing invitation to visit the reserve and the importance of public lands.

www.americanprairie.org

03:33 Meet Alison Fox

04:27 Alison’s Background and Montana

05:51 American Prairie Mission

06:45 Origins and Why Grasslands Matter

08:03 Acreage Breakdown and BLM Leases

09:25 On the Ground Restoration Work

11:39 Wildlife Comebacks Swift Fox

13:23 Rewilding and Grizzly Return

15:57 Land Acquisition and Ranching Leases

17:48 Anchor Ranch and Public Access

20:20 BLM Move to Rescind Bison Grazing

24:33 Taylor Grazing Act Production Standard

27:01 Precedent Risks and Next Steps

28:42 Contingency Plans

30:39 Cattle Only Permit Shift

31:05 State Land Legal Fight

31:47 Tribal Partnerships

35:20 Stocking Rate Decisions

36:08 Bison Versus Cattle

38:10 Donors And Transparency

41:55 Local Reception And Critics

44:01 Hunting Access Programs

46:05 Dispelling Bison Myths

49:13 Negative Bison Easements

50:15 Working With BLM

50:50 Visit American Prairie

51:54 Why Public Lands Matter

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In this episode, I am joined by Wanda Culp and Joshua Wright to discuss their new film, Land Less, and the “Landless Bill” (S.2554 / H.R.41), that would transfer 115,000 acres of Southeast Alaska public lands on the Tongass National Forest—about 60,000 currently protected by the Roadless Rule—to new Native corporations created under ANCSA. They describe ANCSA’s corporate model and contend past Tongass transfers, including the 2014 Sealaska Bill and the Alaska Mental Health Trust exchange, have repeatedly led to large-scale old-growth clearcut logging. They criticize major environmental groups like The Nature Conservancy and The Wilderness Society for supporting the bill, warning it functions as a workaround to NEPA and federal oversight, and discuss Sealaska’s cease-and-desist letter over a filmed boardroom scene.

www.LandLessFilm.com

00:56 Episode Preview Landless Bill

02:12 Alaska Land Transfers Context

04:04 Meet Wanda and Joshua

04:24 Why Make Landless?

06:47 Wanda’s Story

09:22 Past Tongass Transfer Deals

11:41 Why Landless Enables Logging

14:41 Big Greens Backlash

18:43 Sealaska Cease and Desist

28:32 Tribal Governance and Youth

34:07 No Public Process After Transfer

38:44 Climate Crisis and Extraction

41:30 How to Take Action

In this episode, I speak with long-time wilderness advocate Gary MacFarlane. Gary discusses moving from Idaho to France, still active with Wilderness Watch and Friends of the Clearwater, he explains his long connection to the Northern Rockies and why the Clearwater Basin is so special to him, with diverse habitats and notable wildlife history including wolves, grizzly sightings, and the decline of woodland caribou tied to habitat change and human access. Our conversation covers threats to roadless areas, weaknesses and loopholes in the Roadless Rule, and the Northern Rockies Ecosystem Protection Act. We discuss mechanized recreation, core Wilderness Act protections, and concerns about Forest Service ties to industry, outsourcing, and reorganization harming wilderness stewardship, plus critiques of fire-logging justifications.

02:03 Idaho to France Life

03:17 Wild Places in France

05:29 Why the Clearwater Matters

07:29 Inland Rainforest Ecology

09:15 Wolves Grizzlies Caribou

14:29 Roadless Rule Loopholes

16:41 Northern Rockies Ecosystem Protection Act

19:26 Politics Jobs and Subsidies

24:10 Recreation Versus Wilderness

29:54 What Wilderness Protects

31:46 Logging Bans Explained

32:38 Grazing and Guiding Loopholes

34:10 Chainsaws and Trail Ethics

36:33 Forest Service Reorg Fallout

38:58 Losing Wilderness Professionals

45:23 Devolution to State Control

47:29 Research Stations and Fire Science

50:32 Privatization and Canada Warning

53:25 Reform Ideas for New Agencies

58:26 Prescribed Fire and Home Hardening

In this episode, I speak with Ryan Busse, Democratic congressional candidate running in MT-01. He is currently projected to win the upcoming primary election in early June. On public lands issues in Congress, Ryan argues calls and letters aren’t enough without electoral change, citing the example of the recent vote on the Boundary Waters, and lays out his case as to why he’ll be a strong fighter for public lands in Washington for all Americans. We discuss “collaborative conservation” and Montana public-lands bills that protect limited wilderness acres at the expense of vast swaths of roadless forests. We discuss Montana’s logging past, new economies, the Northern Rockies Ecosystem Protection Act, restoration jobs, and a wildfire approach focused on home hardening and defensible space rather than backcountry logging.

https://busseformontana.com

00:34 Guest Intro

03:36 Campaign Life on the Road

05:17 Boundary Waters Disaster

08:10 Public Lands Laws

09:40 Zinke and Daines Exit

11:57 Hunting Season Sacrifices

12:56 Public Lands Campaign Plan

15:28 Why Elect True Advocates?

17:24 Busse’s Conservation Resume

19:13 Democratic Opponents

21:20 Public Lands for All Americans

23:23 Polls and Montana’s Stakes

25:17 Public Lands on the Ballot

25:59 Collaborative Conservation

27:43 Why Collaboration Fails

29:31 Montana’s Collaborative Bills

32:45 Roadless Habitat

35:43 NREPA and Restoration Jobs

37:30 Wild Places Drive the Economy

41:30 Lumber Mill Automation and Jobs

43:42 Wildfire Science and Home Hardening

48:09 Election Stakes

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U.S. Senate passed H.J. Res. 140 (50–49) to overturn a 20-year mineral withdrawal protecting 225,504 acres in the Boundary Waters’ Rainy River headwaters, sending the resolution to President Trump. Ingrid explains the Quetico-Superior ecosystem’s vulnerability to sulfide copper mining, the history of canceled Twin Metals leases and the 2023 public land order, and argues the Congressional Review Act use is unprecedented and threatens broader public land orders. She outlines next steps including likely issuance of federal mineral leases, expedited federal and state permitting and environmental review, possible litigation, and pursuing permanent protections through federal and Minnesota legislation, while urging supporters to thank supportive senators, hold others accountable, volunteer, donate, and stay engaged.

Save the Boundary Waters Action Fund

00:56 Senate Vote Fallout

02:08 Meet Ingrid Lyons

02:49 Why the Boundary Waters Matter

05:26 Mining Threat Explained

06:51 How Protections Were Won

09:48 Withdrawal Area Breakdown

11:42 Legislative Attacks Timeline

13:34 How the CRA Was Used

17:02 Senate Vote and Precedent

18:51 Coalition Strength and Vote Count

23:23 What Happens Next

28:56 How You Can Help

33:23 Q and A Begins

In this episode, I interview Diane Boyd, wolf biologist and author. Diane describes learning wolf trapping and collaring during her early years in Minnesota, then moving to Montana in 1979 during early natural wolf recolonization before the 1995–96 Yellowstone/Idaho introductions. She explains why biologists trap wolves, what radio-collars reveal about pack behavior, reproduction, territories, diet, and genetics, and how wolf management has become politicized. Our discussion critiques state population modeling, increasingly liberal wolf-killing rules, and persistent misinformation blaming wolves for game declines despite elk numbers being high and livestock losses from wolves being small. We also discuss public-lands grazing impacts, nonlethal coexistence tools, fears of escalation to poisoning, and the need for better public communication of science, advocating for public lands, and her new book — A Woman Among Wolves.

Diane’s book - A Woman Among Wolves

00:56 Episode Preview

02:51 Meet Diane Boyd

03:24 Hunting Talk

05:00 Wolf Origins

06:01 Trapping And Collars

07:34 Montana Recolonization

08:56 Research Questions

10:06 Models And Trends

11:42 Wolf Hunting Debate

15:27 Elk Deer Myths

17:22 Grazing And Habitat

19:31 Coexistence Tools

23:31 People Politics Data

25:44 Why Wolves Get Blamed

26:49 Control Culture and Old Predator Wars

28:53 Common Myths

30:52 Hunting Pressure and Poison Fears

34:41 Changing Minds With Better Science

36:08 Agency Misinformation and Suppressed Research

40:10 Grizzlies Next?

42:36 Why Wolves Adapt Everywhere

45:04 Hope, Tolerance, and Public Lands

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In this episode, I interview Bob Krumenaker, retired Big Bend National Park superintendent, about the recently proposed Big Bend border wall and its implications. Bob describes Big Bend’s desert, Chisos Mountains, and the Rio Grande riparian corridor, emphasizing biodiversity, cross-border wildlife movement, and the park’s international protected-area status. He argues Big Bend has the lowest illegal crossing activity on the southern border—about 200 apprehensions annually within the park—and says a 30-foot bollard wall would require new roads, towers, lighting, and secondary barriers, harming wilderness character, dark skies, river access, and wildlife. The discussion covers existing surveillance infrastructure, an MOU guiding Border Patrol conduct, prior wall impacts in Organ Pipe and Coronado, and a nonpartisan coalition opposing the wall while supporting less intrusive, cooperative technology. Bob also outlines advocacy steps and links the fight to long-stalled wilderness designation efforts.

Thousands in Texas protest against border wall through national park: ‘big love for Big Bend’

Sign the Change Dot Org Petition

Five Call - Stop Construction of a Border Wall in the Big Bend Region

Capitol Switchboard Number - (202) 224-3121

Keep Big Bend Wild

No Big Bend Boarder Wall

00:56 Episode Preview

02:12 Support the Podcast

03:03 Meet Bob Krumenaker

03:26 Career Path to Superintendent

04:56 Advocacy Inside NPS

06:48 Park Service Mission and Management

11:43 Pivot to Big Bend Tenure

13:57 Big Bend Ecosystems Overview

16:30 Sky Islands and Rare Species

17:41 Wildlife Comebacks and Connectivity

19:49 Crossings Data and Border Patrol Role

21:58 Wall Impacts in Other Parks

26:00 MOU and Working with Border Patrol

27:53 Wall Proposal Timeline and Map Changes

33:00 What a Wall Would Build

35:20 River Access At Risk

36:21 What Smart Wall Means

38:57 Surveillance Tradeoffs

42:15 How Crossings Really Work

45:46 Coalition Against The Wall

54:01 Wilderness History And Future

01:00:18 How You Can Help

01:03:05 Why Public Lands Matter

In this episode, I interview Harold Wood, writer and historian, who specializes in the life and work of John Muir, one of the nation’s most influential and now, controversial, wilderness advocates. Harold discusses his lifelong interest in Muir and explains why his blend of scientific observation and poetic writing remains influential today. He outlines Muir’s role in the wilderness movement and the Sierra Club’s early conservation campaigns. The conversation addresses presentism and claims about Muir’s views of Native Americans. Harold disputes allegations linking Muir to Indigenous removals, racism and eugenics. Harold argues that we have much to learn from the life and advocacy of Muir and that we should come together as conservationists to address the challenges of the present day.

John Muir and Native Americans

John Muir: Racist or Admirer of Native Americans?

Criticizing Muir and misunderstanding the foundation of American nature conservation

Who was John Muir, Really?

Battle for the Wilderness by Michael Frome

00:56 Episode Overview

02:05 Harold Wood Background

03:03 Why Muir Matters

03:49 Who Was John Muir

04:55 Roosevelt Yosemite Trip

06:38 Fame and Hetch Hetchy

11:18 Sierra Club Origins

13:15 Outings and Modern Era

16:17 Presentism Explained

20:02 Early Native Views

23:13 Views Evolve Through Travel

26:11 Ecocentric Worldview

28:35 Indigenous Land Management

31:42 Yosemite Removal Claims

33:53 Parks and Displacement

36:18 Muir Backlash

41:26 Eugenics Claims Rebuttal

42:19 Sequoia League Support

46:46 Unity Through Grassroots

49:42 Wilderness Big Lie

56:14 Agency Politics and Wilderness

In this episode, I welcome back Kevin Proescholdt of Wilderness Watch to discuss wilderness policy debates, focusing on large prescribed-burning proposals like the Forest Service plan to burn all 289,000 acres of Illinois’s Shawnee National Forest, including about 40,000 acres of designated wilderness, and a Boundary Waters project proposal to burn roughly 87,000 of Wilderness. Kevin and I dispute claims that Indigenous people broadly burned entire regions and landscapes, citing newer research suggesting more localized burning around village sites and for food cultivation. We argue agencies use false Indigenous fire narratives to justify forest thinning and landscape manipulation. We also critique Claire Boerigter’s recent article: “How protecting wilderness could mean purposefully tending it, not just leaving it alone,” which advocates active management of wilderness.

Wilderness, Indigenous land zones and regionality in North American forests

For Wilderness to remain wild, it must remain unmanipulated

02:03 Kevin Proescholdt background

04:01 Current wilderness hotspots

06:59 Holding the wilderness line

12:20 Why wilderness matters

15:31 Fire narratives and logging cover

18:58 Shawnee National Forest burn proposal

21:36 Indigenous burning

24:22 Boundary Waters burn plan

25:28 Flawed fire history methods

26:46 Habitat loss and species decline

27:16 Wilderness Act Misread

30:53 Wilderness Pristine Straw Man Arguments

35:47 Let Lightning Fires Burn

38:14 Why High Intensity Matters

40:21 Wildness and Mental Health

41:27 Fire Regeneration Perspective