In this episode of the podcast, I interview George Wuerthner, ecologist, author and president of the Gallatin Yellowstone Wilderness Alliance. An organization dedicated to restoring and protecting the Northern Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem with a particular focus on the Gallatin Range north of Bozeman, Montana.

George and I have a detailed discussion about the Gallatin Forest Partnership proposal and its impact on roadless land protection. Our conversation highlights key issues such as the flawed science behind current forest management practices, the ecological importance of the Gallatin Range, and the high recreational pressures due to increasing population and advancing technologies. We critique the Gallatin Forest Partnership’s plan, emphasizing the need for stronger wilderness designations to maintain wildlife habitats and mitigate human impacts. Historical perspectives on conservation legislation are shared, along with the importance of public advocacy and the need for coordinated efforts to seize future political opportunities for better environmental protections in the Gallatins.

01:17 Gallatin Forest Partnership Proposal Discussion

01:54 Historical Perspectives and Future Focus

05:17 Detailed Analysis of Forest Management Practices

08:22 Wildlife and Ecological Importance of the Gallatin Range

14:02 Challenges and Controversies in Conservation Efforts

19:40 Impact of Human Activities on Wildlife

24:55 Fire Management and Its Implications

38:43 Gallatin Forest Partnership’s Proposal and Critique

45:24 Organizational Dynamics and Conservation Strategies

49:48 Conservation Groups and Political Compromises

51:01 Advocacy and Accountability in Conservation

53:33 Recreation Pressures on the Gallatin Range

55:19 Population Growth and Recreational Impact

58:07 Technological Advances in Recreation

59:52 Cumulative Impacts and Wilderness Designation

01:02:17 The Importance of Wilderness and Natural Selection

01:11:57 Legislation and Conservation Opportunities

01:26:55 Advocacy Strategies and Public Engagement

01:29:29 Conclusion and Call to Action

In this episode, I speak with Kyle Lavin, a conservationist and wilderness and wildlife advocate from Bozeman, Montana. We talk about Kyle’s experiences growing up in Pinedale Wyoming and his strong ties to the wilderness areas of Montana and Wyoming. We discuss the significant changes in Pinedale and Jackson Hole, Wyoming over the years, from childhood memories to the impacts of natural gas production. Kyle and I discuss personal wildlife encounters, including rare sightings of wolverines in the Wind River Range, and the lasting impact of these experiences. We move on to discuss the challenges faced in conserving Montana’s Gallatin Range amidst increasing recreational use and the pressures of population growth.

00:57 Interview with Kyle Lavin: Conservation and Wilderness

01:36 The Gallatin Range: Conservation Challenges

04:08 Montana’s Changing Landscape and Celebrity Residents

14:00 Growing Up in Pinedale, Wyoming

22:49 Impact of Natural Gas Production in Wyoming

31:32 The Influence of Social Media on Wilderness Areas

35:01 The Impact of Social Media on Nature

35:34 Wolverine Encounters in the Wilderness

40:29 Moving to Bozeman for Love and Nature

45:28 Exploring the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem

50:25 Conservation Concerns in the Gallatin Range

01:03:59 The Importance of Protecting Wilderness Areas

01:06:58 Final Thoughts and Reflections

In this episode, I speak with journalist Gloria Liu about her recent article on National Parks in RE:PUBLIC and Outside Magazine, her career trajectory, and the significance of long-form journalism. We delve into the condition of national parks, the impact of staffing shortages, and the Trump administration’s approach to public lands. Gloria shares insights from her reporting trips, discussing the intrinsic value of preserving wild places for future generations. Highlights include her firsthand experiences in Yosemite, the role of park concessioners, and the dedication of park service employees to their mission.

00:22 Challenges of Long-Form Journalism

01:32 Popular Long-Form Pieces

04:15 Career Journey into Journalism

05:43 The Craft and Impact of Journalism

07:26 Story Development and Inspiration

09:45 National Parks Under Threat

12:12 The Reality of Park Management

20:32 Staffing Challenges in National Parks

23:31 Future Implications for National Parks

29:40 Legal Challenges Against Government Employee Reductions

30:36 Privatization and Concessioners in National Parks

32:29 Issues with Concessioners: The Case of Yosemite

36:46 The Role and Passion of Park Rangers

40:05 Economic Value vs. Intrinsic Value of Public Lands

44:14 Exploring the Wilderness of Yosemite

47:05 Legislation and Protection of National Parks

48:42 Connecting with Park Service Employees

50:35 The Dedication of Park Service Employees

52:36 The Importance of Public Lands

56:00 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

In this episode, I speak with Jennifer Mamola of the John Muir Project and Josh Osher of Western Watersheds Project about the Fix Our Forests Act (FOFA), its implications, and the actions needed to prevent its passage. Our conversation delves deeply into various aspects of the bill, including its potential impact on public lands, logging, vegetation treatments, endangered species, judicial review, and grazing policies. Concerns are raised about the bill’s risk to ecosystem integrity and public transparency. Josh and Jenn also outline actions for the public to take, emphasizing the importance of calling senators and representatives to oppose the bill.

Call to oppose the Fix Our Forests Act! Senate switchboard → (202) 224-3121

John Muir Project FOFA Action Alert

Western Watersheds Project FOFA Action Alert

Click to see who supports this dog-pile of a bill… https://www.curtis.senate.gov/press-releases/what-they-are-saying-dozens-of-leaders-applaud-fix-our-forests-act/

00:39 Funding Amendments and Judicial Review

01:54 Private Sector Involvement and Public Oversight

02:34 Statute of Limitations and Categorical Exclusions

05:05 Opposition and Ecological Concerns

08:50 Fire Management and Public Lands

14:54 Grazing as a Fire Management Tool

19:58 Amendments and Legislative Efforts

23:55 Historical Context and Political Dynamics

37:30 Public Participation and Judicial Review

38:47 Concerns Over Public Lands and FOFA

40:40 Categorical Exclusions Explained

42:37 The Absurdity of Large-Scale Logging Projects

50:43 Judicial Review and Preliminary Injunctions

01:01:00 Grazing and Its Environmental Impact

01:08:01 Call to Action: Opposing FOFA

In this episode, I speak with Ryan Semerad—attorney with Fuller & Semerad Law Firm—who represented the four hunters who were charged with trespass after corner crossing over a private ranch onto public lands in Wyoming. The Supreme Court issued an order on Monday declining to hear the case, upholding the district court ruling dropping the charges. As a result, corner crossing is now legal across the 10th Circuit and likely elsewhere across the country.

Our discussion covers the historical and legal intricacies of corner crossing—a practice whereby the public steps from one public land parcel to another across the corner point of private land onto public land—and how this ruling could influence similar cases outside of the 10th Circuit. Ryan recounts the multi-year litigation journey, the pivotal moments along the way, and the impact of the 10th Circuit ruling, which now prohibits private landowners from using airspace trespassing laws to block access to these public lands. He also sheds light on the broader implications of this legal precedent for hunters, anglers, and public land enthusiasts.

00:57 Legal Victory for Corner Crossing Hunters

02:35 Ryan’s Reflections on the Case

04:44 The Elk Mountain Ranch Incident

08:22 Historical Context of Checkerboard Land Patterns

18:07 Litigation Journey and Supreme Court Decision

22:07 Public and Private Reactions to the Ruling

24:36 Ranchers’ Opposition to Corner Crossing

27:31 Property Rights and Public Lands

28:05 Implications of the 10th Circuit Decision

29:11 Legal Precedents in Other Circuits

30:45 Navigating the Legal Process

31:52 Monumenting Public Land Corners

35:12 Land Exchanges and Consolidations

37:11 Litigation Challenges and Key Moments

47:32 The Importance of Public Lands

49:26 Final Thoughts and Gratitude

Affirmed Decision

https://www.thefullerlawyers.com/

https://montanafreepress.org/2025/10/20/supreme-court-declines-to-take-landowner-appeal-in-corner-crossing-case/

In this episode, I interview Joe Gutkoski, a conservation legend and hero to many in Southwest Montana. Joe passed away in 2021.

In the introduction, I am joined by former friend and colleague Pat Simmons who shares personal stories and background about Joe.

Joe was born and raised in northeast Pennsylvania, and details his move to Montana after serving in the Navy in 1946. He discusses his 30-plus year career with the Forest Service working a landscape architect, and tensions that arose when he would advocate for conservation and preservation over new extraction plans. Our conversation explores the historical attitudes towards wilderness and conservation, key legislation like the 1964 Wilderness Act, and the controversial cozy relationship between the Forest Service and logging industry. Joe discusses his efforts to protect and reintroduce wild bison in Montana which have evolved into recognizable organizations and campaigns. Our discussion transitions to the proposals for the Gallatin Range and the tension between private industry and land conservation efforts.

Last Trek of the Human Wolverine

04:02 Pat Simmons Remembers Joe Gutkowski

27:55 Joe Gutkowski’s Early Life and Career

47:51 The Near Extinction of the Buffalo

49:06 Smithsonian’s Buffalo Expedition

51:33 Buffalo Skins and Private Land

53:04 Rediscovering the Last Buffalo Camp

58:22 The Big Open Project

01:08:11 Gallatin Range Wilderness Debate

01:14:08 The Role of Landscape Architects

01:20:21 Gifford Pinchot and Early Conservation

01:30:17 Final Thoughts

In this episode, I interview Ryan Busse, 2024 Democratic candidate for Montana Governor and former executive with Kimber Firearms.

We discuss crucial issues surrounding public lands, conservation, and hunting advocacy. Ryan highlights his concern for the declining state of democracy and its impact on public lands, emphasizing the need for hunters and anglers to be unapologetic in their advocacy for wild places. We critique the current state of hunting nonprofits, arguing they are not adequately fighting for public land protections. Ryan introduces his new organization, Public Land Warriors, who fund advertisements targeting politicians who threaten public lands. Ryan underscores the significance of protecting Wilderness Study Areas and roadless lands to maintain the essence of wild America, and discusses his personal wilderness and wildlife experiences that have had profound impacts on his life.

Public Land Warriors

03:25 Interview with Ryan Busse Begins

04:04 Bird Hunting and Conservation Insights

08:14 Public Lands Grazing Issues

13:40 Ryan Busse’s Background and Political Journey

18:22 Challenges and Future of Public Lands

43:17 Environmental Concerns in Montana

44:16 Recreation and Development Threats

47:20 Advocacy for Conservation

50:52 Critique of Hunting and Angling Nonprofits

54:19 Political Influence on Conservation

01:02:16 Hunting’s Public Relations Problem

01:06:18 Instilling Conservation Values in the Next Generation

01:07:23 Wilderness Study Areas and Roadless Protections

01:12:53 Public Land Warriors

01:17:56 Conclusion and Call to Action

In this episode, I interview Christopher Keyes, former editor-in-chief of Outside Magazine about his new venture RE:PUBLIC, a journalism outlet dedicated to covering public lands issues. We discuss his journalism career and 15 years working at Outside Magazine. Our conversation covers the significance of public lands, the recreation economy, and the challenges faced by the journalism industry. Chris emphasizes the necessity of objective journalism in the current political climate and his plans to steer RE:PUBLIC towards impactful storytelling and investigative reporting. Our discussion also explores the complexities of balancing recreation, conservation, and extraction, and how the outdoor recreation industry has become a powerful economic force in recent decades.

https://www.republic.land/

https://outdoorindustry.org/press-release/republic-brings-public-lands-to-the-front-page/

00:57 Gratitude to Listeners and Supporters

03:11 Chris's Journalism Journey

06:13 The Role and Impact of Journalism

13:48 Public Lands and the Outdoor Industry

15:47 Balancing Recreation and Conservation

22:46 The Future of Public Lands Journalism

27:01 The Role of Journalism in Public Land Issues

28:31 Bias and Objectivity in Reporting

29:33 The Recreation Economy and Public Lands

34:00 Introducing RE:PUBLIC

45:19 The Importance of Public Lands

47:53 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

In this episode, I interview Josh Jackson, author and public lands advocate. Our discussion centers around Bureau of Land Management (BLM) lands and the imperative of connecting people to these vast stretches of public lands. We discuss Josh’s new book, The Enduring Wild, which focuses on California BLM lands and aims to highlight their beauty and importance through immersive storytelling, photography, and essays. He elaborates on the themes and messages from his book, emphasizing the need for public awareness and engagement to protect these lands from industrial threats. Josh also discusses his passion for leading trips for urban dwellers to introduce them to camping and the natural world.

The Enduring Wild

Josh’s Substack (Forgotten Lands Project)

Usal Project

Totem Salmon

00:00 Introduction to Josh Jackson and Public Lands

00:15 Discussing 'The Enduring Wild'

00:29 Josh's Passion for Leading Camping Trips

01:02 Personal Experiences in Death Valley

02:12 Exploring BLM Lands Around Death Valley

03:53 The Usal Project and Urbanites' Introduction to Nature

08:23 Connecting People to Public Lands

12:48 History and Importance of BLM Lands

16:35 Challenges and Conservation Efforts

20:36 The King Range Conservation Area

27:08 The Mojave Desert Camping Trip

28:34 Challenges in BLM Management

30:11 The Lost Coast

31:13 Salmon Conservation Efforts

34:40 Exploring BLM Lands in California

36:27 The Bodie Hills

39:56 Wilderness

51:07 The Importance of Public Lands

In this episode, I interview Josh Schlossberg, a forest advocate, coordinator of the Eco-Integrity Alliance, and eco-horror writer. Josh discusses the complexities of forest management and the profound challenges that come with advocating for public lands. We critically examine the role of propaganda and biased journalism in shaping public opinion on wildfire management. Josh shares his experience with public records requests that reveal disinformation campaigns and discusses how political and financial motivations influence land management policies in his home state of Colorado and beyond. Josh also emphasizes the importance of creating independent media to counteract mainstream narratives.

00:20 The Role of Propaganda in Wildfire Management

01:58 Debating Forest Management Science

06:24 Challenges in Advocacy and Media

10:16 Josh's Journey into Advocacy

23:23 Eco Horror Fiction and Advocacy

28:38 Philosophical Reflections on Nature and Humanity

36:31 Wildfire Fatalities vs. Vending Machines

37:28 Eco Integrity Alliance and Wildfire Pretense Logging

38:46 Forest Fire Malfeasance Report

41:57 Public Records Request and Disinformation

46:10 Coordination and Conspiracy in Wildfire Management

48:05 Trump's Logging Policies and Public Reaction

59:47 Challenges in Media Coverage and Advocacy

01:12:51 Concluding Thoughts on Public Lands

https://news.mongabay.com/2025/08/old-forests-new-fires-and-a-scientific-standoff-over-active-management/

https://coloradosmokescreen.org/forest-fire-malfeasance/

https://coloradonewsline.com/2025/08/12/mislead-coloradans-wildfire-science/

https://eco-integrityalliance.org/

https://joshsworstnightmare.com/