Outside/In

In 2009, the state of Maine ordered farmer Dan Brown to stop selling his raw milk. It kicked off a five-year legal battle that stoked the flames of Maine’s dairy wars. But, after Farmer Brown lost his case and hung up his milking hat, things quieted down. 

Twenty years later, raw milk has surged back into the zeitgeist. Influencers are saying it tastes like ice cream, RFK Jr. is taking shots of it at the White House, and

Gwyneth Paltrow is putting it in her coffee.

All of which makes for a pretty obvious question… What’s the appeal? Is raw milk some kind of superfood? Or something to avoid at all costs? 

Featuring Dan Brown, Andy Bisson, Danny Bisson, Nicole Martin, Pamela Ruegg, and Mary McGonigle-Martin.

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LINKS

For a comprehensive history of dairy check out Milk! A 10,000 Year History by Mark Kurlansky.

During the height of Dan Brown’s case he gave a speech to a rousing crowd in Blue Hill. You can watch that here. 

The debate over raw vs. pasteurization milk has been going on for a long time. The Milk Question by Milton Joseph Rosenau is a fascinating (we daresay, poetic) read. 

The Pasteurized Milk Ordinance is a nearly 500-page document that outlines the intricacies of milk regulation in the U.S. Here’s its most current version. 

The Food and Drug Administration fact-checks many different raw milk claims on this page, including pasteurization's affect on vitamin content and potential probiotic benefit.

CREDITS 

Produced by Marina Henke. For full credits and transcript, visit outsideinradio.org

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A few weeks ago, Nate gathered a group of storytellers in front of a live audience in Portsmouth, N.H. to celebrate 10 years of Outside/In. From goats to ghosts and ill-fated coloring book pages, this motley crew of storytellers explored the theme of metamorphosis in a changing world. 

 If you’ve got a special moment or episode from Outside/In’s long history, we’d love to hear about it. Send us a note at [email protected].  

Featuring Gretchen Legler, Kianny Antigua, Sara Lamagna, Jake Lewis, Aubrey Nelson, Dave Anderson 

Produced by Taylor Quimby and Zoë Mitchell. For full credits and transcript, visit outsideinradio.org.

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LINKS

Check out Gretchen Legler’s blog, where she writes about all sorts of nature and farm-inspired subjects, here. 

More on the work of Kianny Antigua can be found on her website. 

Listen to Sarah Lamagna’s interview for a previous episode of Outside/In, where she and Taylor talk about tricking kids into loving hiking. 

Interested in learning more about Aubrey Nelson's call for "more purposeful, real-world education?" You can contact her "Ecosystem of Educationeers" via this form. 

Listen to more musings from naturalist Dave Anderson on NHPR’s Something Wild. 

If you want to hear more of Nate’s music, check out “Snoweater on Bandcamp. 

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Ravens get a bad rap in western culture. They’re an ominous symbol of death, considered “unclean” by the bible, and star in Edgar Allen Poe’s haunting gothic poem, “The Raven.” A group of ravens is called an “unkindness.” What a burn.

But host Nate Hegyi is on a mission to show that we should give the raven a bit more credit. It’s one of the most intelligent creatures on earth — an animal that can use tools like a chimpanzee, speak like a parrot, do tricks like a dog, and investigate murders like Sherlock Holmes. 

So today on the show, another edition of our ongoing series, Holy Scat: raven edition.

Featuring Sophie Nilles and Will Geiger.

Produced by Nate Hegyi. For a transcript and full list of credits, go to ⁠outsideinradio.org⁠. 

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Dr. Kaeli Swift is one of the foremost corvid researchers on the planet, and she’s done a deep dive into corvid funerals. 

Here’s the study that shows ravens parallel great apes in terms of intelligence.

If you want a real creepy experience, you should watch Vincent Price recite Edgar Allen Poe’s ‘The Raven.’

Need more raven stories from southeast Alaska? The Sealaska Heritage Institute just published a collection. 

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After the Irish fought for and won their independence from the British in 1921, they had a problem. Centuries of exploitation had left the island one of the least forested nations in Europe, with less than 2% tree cover. 

So, they started planting a non-native American tree: fast-growing Sitka spruce capable of rebuilding their timber resources in record time. And it worked. Today, about 17% of the island is forested. But in the rural areas where iconic rolling hills have been replaced by rows and rows of conifers, farmers are not happy. 

Outside/In host Nate Hegyi takes us to County Leitrim, an area of Ireland hit hard by the Troubles and the Great Famine, to meet the townspeople who are fighting what they say is a new wave of colonialism: Sitka spruce plantations.

Featuring Justin Warnock, Brian Smyth, Donal Magner, Liam Byrne and Jodie Asselin.

This episode originally aired in March 2025.

Produced by Nate Hegyi. For a transcript and full list of credits, go to outsideinradio.org. 

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Donal Magner wrote a book covering the history of Ireland’s forests and timber industry. 

Sitka spruce plantations are controversial in other parts of Ireland as well, including Cork. 

There are also efforts to rewild parts of Ireland with entirely native trees and to protect and restore carbon-sequestering bogs. 

It can be really tough to figure out exactly what was growing in Ireland thousands of years ago – but these scientists used ancient pollen counts to figure it out.

Researchers at University College Dublin produced a detailed socio-economic impact report on Sitka spruce plantations and County Leitrim in 2019.

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A New Hampshire town finds out its water has been contaminated by a chemical. The most basic question — whether the water is safe to drink — doesn’t have a clear answer. Nobody seems to know much about this so-called forever chemical, which is weird… because all of this has all happened before.

From the Document team at New Hampshire Public Radio, Safe to Drink is a four-part series about a water contamination story that keeps repeating in town after town — and about the people who fought for answers through a maze of chemistry, regulations, and illnesses.

You can binge the whole series now: subscribe to Safe to Drink on Apple Podcasts, or check out their page on NHPR’s website. 

Reported by Mara Hoplamazian. For full credits and transcript, visit outsideinradio.org.

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Celebrate our 10th anniversary with us! Join the Outside/In team for Stories from Outside on Friday, Feb. 6, at 7 p.m. at 3S Artspace in Portsmouth. Tickets are available here.

Outside/In is made possible with listener support. Click here to become a sustaining member of Outside/In. 

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Last week, we talked about the ethics and regulations around sending private citizens to space, but one thing we didn’t linger on much was the lasting impact of Christa McAuliffe; the teacher slated to become the first private citizen to space before she was killed in the Challenger disaster. 

So today, we’ve got a series of stories and interviews that are all part of NHPR’s series “Remembering Christa: 40 Years After the Challenger.”  

We’ll hear from a local journalist that covered her story, the students she mentored, and the community charged with remembering her legacy. 

Produced by Patrick McNameeKing. For full credits and transcript, visit outsideinradio.org.

SUPPORT

Grab a ticket for our 10 year anniversary live show here! 

Outside/In is made possible with listener support. Click here to become a sustaining member of Outside/In. 

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In 1985, high school teacher Christa McAuliffe was selected to become the first private citizen to travel to space. After the Challenger explosion that killed her and 6 other astronauts, NASA scrapped its Teacher in Space Project; it was still too risky to send private citizens to space.  

40 years later, things are looking very different. 

Today, celebrities and billionaires are buying trips on commercial rockets. Private companies are designing new, private space stations. How is safety being regulated for these private space companies? And what happens if – or when – something goes wrong? 

Featuring Kim Bleier, Ben Miller, Doug Ligor, Peggy Whitson, and Dana Tulodziecki.

Produced by Daniel Ackerman. For full credits and transcript, visit outsideinradio.org.

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Follow Outside/In on Instagram or join our private discussion group on Facebook.

LINKS

Listen to NHPR’s multi-part series honoring Christa McAuliffe 40 years after the Challenger shuttle disaster.

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One of the very first books for the general public about climate change was written and published by Bill McKibben in 1989. In The End of Nature, Bill wrote that continuing to burn fossil fuels would “lead us, if not straight to hell, then straight to a place with a similar temperature.”

Bill was right. The planet is hotter. Climate disasters are everywhere. You’d think he’d be more upset now than ever. But in his latest book, Here Comes the Sun, Bill sounds optimistic. In it he writes “For the first time, I can see a path forward. A path lit by the sun.”

Host Nate Hegyi talks to journalist and activist Bill McKibben, about how he’s changed, how he’s stayed the same, and what his story tells us about the state of the climate crisis.

Featuring Bill McKibben

Produced by Felix Poon. For full credits and transcript, visit outsideinradio.org.

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Outside/In is made possible with listener support. Click here to become a sustaining member of Outside/In. 

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LINKS

Listen to Studs Terkel’s 1989 interview with Bill about his first book, The End of Nature.

Read Bill’s latest book, Here Comes the Sun.

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You might not think much about the sticky bottle of vanilla sitting in the back of your pantry. But that flavor – one of the most common in the world – has a fascinating history, involving a fickle orchid and a 12-year-old enslaved boy who made the discovery of a lifetime. 

That’s the sort of tale that attracts poet Aimee Nezhukumatathil. From peacock feathers to the sounds of garden insects, her work is known for magnifying the wonders of the natural world. Her latest book of essays, “Bite by Bite: Nourishments and Jamborees,” explores the unexpected connections between food, memory, and community.

So take a seat and pour yourself an aperitif, as Aimee Nezhukumatathil shares a few of these miniature morsels with Outside/In host Nate Hegyi: a three-course meal of grape jelly, sweet nostalgia, and just a hint of vanilla bean.  

Featuring Aimee Nezhukumatathil

This episode originally aired in 2024. 

SUPPORT

To share your questions and feedback with Outside/In, call the show’s hotline and leave us a voicemail. The number is 1-844-GO-OTTER. No question is too serious or too silly.

Outside/In is made possible with listener support. Click here to become a sustaining member of Outside/In. 

Follow Outside/In on Instagram and BlueSky, or join our private discussion group on Facebook.

LINKS

You can find Aimee’s book of essays, Bite by Bite, at your local bookstore or online. 

CREDITS

Produced by Nate Hegyi. For full credits and transcript, visit outsideinradio.org

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** We’re celebrating our 10 year anniversary and want you to come! Join us in Portsmouth, New Hampshire for a night of storytelling, featuring former Outside/In guests and hosted by our very own Nate Hegyi. Get your tickets here! ** 

In celebration of Outside/In’s 10th anniversary we’re looking back at our very first episode: “The Kiwi Apocalypse,” first published in December of 2015. Afterwards, we’ll get an update to the story and talk about how weird it is to have a podcast old enough to be in middle school. 

Here’s our original description for The Kiwi Apocalypse: 

Iago Hale has a vision: it’s one where the economy of the North Country is revitalized by local farmers selling delicious cold hardy kiwi berries to the masses.

Meanwhile, Tom Lautzenheiser has been battling a hardy kiwi infestation in Massachusetts for years, and is afraid that this fight will soon be coming to the rest of New England.

Should we worry about the cold hardy kiwi and what does the quest to bring it to market tell us about what an invasive species is?

Featuring Iago Hale, Tom Lautzenheiser and Bryan Connolly.

This episode was produced by our original host, Sam Evans-Brown. For full credits and transcript, visit outsideinradio.org.

SUPPORT

Grab a ticket for our 10 year anniversary live show here! 

Outside/In is made possible with listener support. Click here to become a sustaining member of Outside/In. 

Follow Outside/In on Instagram or join our private discussion group on Facebook.

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