Todd Conklin and Brent Sutton discuss the short-term future of safety thinking—covering the rise and fall of lean/TQM, how commodification can slow innovation, and why fear, FOMO and complacency shape which ideas stick. They explore leaders' responsibility, weak signals, and the need for small 'safe-to-fail' experiments to keep systems resilient.

Set in Santa Fe with lighthearted moments (including breakfast burritos and a cheese debate), the episode blends history, practical insight and a call to stay curious about evolving workplace complexity.