Parenting Teens: Advice Redefined for Today's Complex World

By Cheryl PankhurstParenting Kids & Family

Parenting Teens: Advice Redefined for Today's Complex World episodes

June 05, 2024 #33 "Parenting Strategies for Understanding Your Teen's Personality" with Dr Alan Mueller
Speaker 1 Cheryl
00:01
Teen Minds Redefined, you're listening to the podcast with Cheryl Pankhurst. Welcome to another episode of Teen Minds Redefined. I just want to take a second first to thank you all the listeners. We are celebrating 6 months.
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Speaker 1 Cheryl
00:26
We are celebrating 26 episodes, not missing a week. This is my jam. This is the most amazing thing I think I've ever done. And the reason it is, is because we are making an impact on parents, an impact on teachers, an impact on kids and the relationships.
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Speaker 1 Cheryl
00:44
And My mission is for parents to never have to say, oh my God, I hate the teenage years. I can't wait to get them the hell out of my house. That needs to stop because teams are amazing and we need to help you reimagine those relationships. So having said that, YouTube, subscribe to the podcast, Spotify, Apple, good pods.
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Speaker 1 Cheryl
01:06
I'm everywhere. So not only subscribe, not only follow, but share, share, share. Cause you just never know who needs to hear this stuff. And it's good stuff.
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Speaker 1 Cheryl
01:16
So thank you, thank you, thank you. And I'm also celebrating today my very first return guest within 6 months, Dr. Mueller, the sequel.
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Speaker 2 Alan
01:28
Awesome.
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Speaker 1 Cheryl
01:29
So we are getting ready to unlock the secrets of your personality and improve your emotional intelligence because we have Dr. Alan Mueller in the house as the brains behind adaptive challenge consulting. He is on a mission to help you understand yourself, your team and your relationship with your team.
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Speaker 1 Cheryl
01:46
Welcome Dr. Alan Mueller.
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Speaker 2 Alan
01:47
Again, it's so glad it's so great to be back. I'm so glad to be here. Yeah.
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Speaker 2 Alan
01:52
And what a great introduction. Thank you.
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Speaker 1 Cheryl
01:55
My pleasure. Gonna do you good. Okay, let's go.
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Speaker 1 Cheryl
01:58
Like, what is your story? And yeah, why is it your story? That's
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Speaker 2 Alan
02:01
what I want to know. Yeah, so my story is 1 of sort of lots of instructive failures, lots of bumps in the road, and I think a lot of our stories are like that. You know, 1 thing I share with people is that when I went to college the first time, it took me 7 years to finish.
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Speaker 2 Alan
02:17
And my GPA was 2.16. So a lot of my friends graduated Nanda cum laude and summa cum laude. I just graduated thank the law day can't believe he even made it. I was working 2 jobs, sometimes 3 jobs.
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Speaker 2 Alan
02:31
But you know, there've been a lot of I've had a lot of amazing failures. But along the way, I've also worked in a lot of different areas. And I'm raising 2 children, both of whom are teenagers right now. I'm thankfully married to a school counselor.
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Speaker 2 Alan
02:47
So she has a lot of expertise and sort of the birth through young adolescents. And then I studied college student psychology. So I have a lot of experience sort of older adolescents through young adulthood. And So I'm a Myers-Briggs certified interpreter and I use the Myers-Briggs in a lot of my work, but I also use it interpersonally at home.
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Speaker 2 Alan
03:06
I use it with my children. My ninth grader talks type, as we call it, in the Myers-Briggs world. He talks type and so does my older son who's in college. And so the ability to understand our personality types better helps us be better parents to our kids, help our kids be better kids, helps us be better partners and spouses along the co-parenting journey, if that's part of their equation.
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Speaker 2 Alan
03:33
You know, and then also a great co-worker and great supervisor and all those other things as well. And so 1 of my missions is to take this older cool, the Myers-Briggs, and give it a refresh and make it fun so that we can have those aha moments to build more empathy. Because at the end of the day, the more empathy and grace we can give other people, the better. And there's a world of how we are wired differently that is in the way of empathy sometimes.
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Speaker 2 Alan
04:01
And my job is to help demystify that. So yeah, that's what I'm here to do.
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Speaker 1 Cheryl
04:07
I love it. Okay. Myers-Briggs.
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Speaker 1 Cheryl
04:09
So there's like, I don't know, 752, not exaggerating at all personality tests out there. Why Myers-Briggs? Why does this resonate with you and like give us a little bit of a lowdown there?
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Speaker 2 Alan
04:24
Oh, yeah I mean, there's so many great ones. I mean, there's the Enneagram there's strengths finders there's What's called the Holland code which is using career counseling? 1 of the things that I think is great about the Myers-Briggs is it only tries to measure 1 thing.
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Speaker 2 Alan
04:39
A lot of these different personality things are trying to measure how good you are at something aptitude, right? And the Myers-Briggs knows that we cannot tell a test how good we are at something. Otherwise we would all report that we are all great dancers and all great drivers. And spoiler alert, we're not all great dancers and we're not all great drivers.
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Speaker 2 Alan
04:58
Right. So the Myers-Briggs is only measuring preferences, preferences we can measure. And so my inner sort of academic nerd likes it because it's not pretending to try to measure something that we can't really measure or that we, that would be a lot harder to measure than a quiz. Right.
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Speaker 2 Alan
05:15
Yeah. And so preferences, I can think about my preferences all day long. And 1 of the examples I give to people is, I hate cauliflower. I cannot stand cauliflower and I absolutely love coffee.
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Speaker 2 Alan
05:26
And I do not understand where these preferences came from, but this much I know if I were stranded on a desert island and the only source of food was cauliflower there's like a cauliflower bush or tree or vine whatever cauliflower comes out of the ground as of You you bet you bet your bottom dollar that after 6 months stuck on the island, if I got rescued, I'd be like, do you want to try my 20 different recipes for cauliflower? Right. And then I would have developed an appreciation. And I say that to people because a preference is just a preference.
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Speaker 2 Alan
05:58
I can operate outside my preference. Will it be as fun? Will it be as rejuvenating? No.
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Speaker 2 Alan
06:04
Can I? Yeah. Yeah. Another example I give people, because people use the mind of brings us like a label, right?
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Speaker 2 Alan
06:10
Oh, I am an extrovert. I am an introvert. Yeah. I'm like, no, no, no, you're a person with an extrovert preference or a person with an introvert preference.
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Speaker 2 Alan
06:18
It's a small distinction, but it's a big distinction. And the part of the way I illustrate that sometimes is I'm right-handed and I'll be in front of a group of 50 people or 500 people and I will very, very dramatically get my left hand at a coffee mug and do it like this. And for those who are just listening, you can't see I'm picking up my coffee mug with my left hand, not my right. I'm right-handed.
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Speaker 2 Alan
06:40
I'll pick it up with my left hand and I will very just gleefully and dramatically take a sip using my left hand. Right. I'm going to do that right now. Here we go.
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Speaker 2 Alan
06:50
And the point is I'm right handed. That's my preference. But look, I can do all kinds of amazing things with my left hand. And when I drive a car, I use both.
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Speaker 2 Alan
06:59
So This demystifies the introverts can only this extroverts can only that. No, no, no, no, no, my friend. Introverts might gravitate towards or like, or have a preference for extroverts might gravitate towards like, or have a preference for, but that doesn't mean you there's no can't in this this isn't ability this is just preference yeah and so it's it's a huge distinction and it helps us you know get better understanding especially when we have to operate outside of our type outside of our purpose I give you 1 example
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Speaker 1 Cheryl
07:32
yeah
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Speaker 2 Alan
07:33
I had a great colleague named Megan. And by weird, a weird fate, a set of circumstances, I happened to know her dad, mom, and had met her older brothers. And then, you know, years and years and years later, I hired her and all the members of her family were very extroverted, very extroverted.
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Speaker 2 Alan
07:54
She was the youngest child, the only daughter. And she I've sent her to get my earth break certified and she came back after the training and like whispered to me almost like confession. She goes, Alan, I think I'm an introvert. And I said, Megan, I knew that all along, but I'm glad you discovered it.
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Speaker 2 Alan
08:13
And she had been playing extroverts so that she didn't get lost, right? If you've seen Home Alone, you know, the kid Kevin gets lost, people forget it. She had to raise her voice more. She had to, to be more externally processing just to not get lost in the shuffle in a household full of extroverts, right?
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Speaker 1 Cheryl
08:31
Wow. And it
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Speaker 2 Alan
08:32
was liberating to her to be able to reconnect with her inner introvert and own it, you know, and it was, it was an amazing thing to watch happen. Yeah,
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Speaker 1 Cheryl
08:40
that's amazing. So how many different types are there?
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Speaker 2 Alan
08:44
So there's 4 preferences. And this is the thing about the Meyer Springs that a lot of people don't understand. It's it's just for psychological preferences It's where you get your energy how you soak in the world How you make decisions and then you're sort of social organizational style.
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Speaker 2 Alan
08:58
The last one's a little complicated But the 4 letters if you each of those has 2 potential outcomes, so there are 16 types total 16 times And so I'll give you a real quick. You're gonna give you a real quick. Yeah, so the first letter is expert introvert It's very simple. It's where we get our energy Extroverts go to the outside world.
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Speaker 2 Alan
09:17
It's other people but it's also nature or animals or music Introverts go to the infernal world, right? I'm married to an introvert and when she says best friend, I know that there's an individual person with a street address I'm an extrovert When I say best friend is this loose category of about 5 to 6 people who are each best in their own way, right? 1 of the great things I do is I separate teams into extroverts and introverts. And I say, look across the room.
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Speaker 2 Alan
09:44
And I ask the extroverts, hey extroverts, how many of you out in public wear earbuds and don't listen to music? And they look like this. They look at me so confused. They're like, I don't understand.
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Speaker 2 Alan
09:56
Wait, you're wearing earbuds or AirPods, but you're not listening to anything in them. This question makes no sense to me. And then I turned to the other side of the room to the wall of introverts. And before I can get the question out, all the hands were slowly going up like, yes, yes, indeed.
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Speaker 2 Alan
10:12
We wear, we wear headphones in public because they are a social barrier. Right. Something else I do when I have them separated is I say, because I want to be intersectional about this, right? Cause gender is with us, race is with us.
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Speaker 2 Alan
10:24
And so with us, I tell the extroverts, I'm like, experts look across the room. How many people across the room have you ever described as having resting Mitch face. I'm using it. I'm using an M here, Mitch resting Mitch face.
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Speaker 2 Alan
10:37
And the experts again, they look at me they're like, what, what, what is that? I'm like, resting, you don't know resting Mitch face? Like, no, I'm like, I know you don't know it because it doesn't exist. The reason it doesn't exist is because men can be introverted and nobody cares.
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Speaker 2 Alan
10:50
Nobody cares. Men can just naturally be introverted and no 1 is trying to ascribe something to them. Right? I tell people I've been alive for 50 years.
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Speaker 2 Alan
11:00
I have never had a stranger say to me, Oh, how do you need to smile more? I've, I've never had a stranger say that to me, right? So that's an intersection of my extroversion and my madness, right? That's, that's what I'm an extrovert and a man, right?
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Speaker 2 Alan
11:13
And so, And then we also slice and dice on like, you know, looking front of the room, if you see women over there who you described resting, you know, you know what phase 2, but then also women of color are used, are, you know, if you're looking at white women and saying they're standoffish or shy with women of color, is it all of a sudden they have an attitude like what check yourself a little bit on this right so anyway the first is intro extrovert questions about that I know that that was that was layers right there right
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Speaker 1 Cheryl
11:38
yeah can you can you be both can you like I feel honestly I feel like I'm both I feel like right now little extrovert no problem somewhere where you know I used to be run a department at school, send me somewhere where I have to lead a meeting every friggin week for 30 years. And I was a complete intro, I would want to throw up, I would shake, I would crap, I never wanted to ask a question. So can I be both?
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Speaker 2 Alan
12:10
So that's a very common question. And online people are talking about ambiverts, people who are a little of both. I actually think, and this is all based on the work of Carl Jung and Isabella Briggs-Meyers, and I've read Isabella Briggs-Meyers books and Carl Jung's books, I actually am convinced that in the US that there's no such thing as an ambivert, but there is very much such thing as introverts who have learned to be social to survive in society because society rewards that.
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Speaker 2 Alan
12:39
1 question I typically ask people who are on the fence like I can't decide because sometimes I'm an introvert, I'm an extrovert, I say yeah, Yeah, okay. And then I say, you know, that little switch you have to turn on sometimes to be social that switch if they nod, I'm like, Okay, my friend, extroverts have never heard of this switch. Extroverts have no concept of this switch. Extroverts.
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Speaker 2 Alan
12:58
It's it's not a switch. It's just a live circuit that has electricity through it, flowing through it at all time. Introverts, it's a switch that can turn off and on. So if they even, if I even see on their face recognition of the concept of turning on the social switch, I'm like, you're an introvert Who because of work or spouses or society has become a social introvert and that's great It's like speaking a second language Yeah, but you do know what still energizes you and what drains you you do know what still energizes you and what's so draining to you?
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Speaker 2 Alan
13:30
And that's the big deciding point. It's not again, what you can or can't do. It's the energy. It's picking up energy or are you spending energy?
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Speaker 2 Alan
13:39
Right?
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Speaker 1 Cheryl
13:39
Yeah. So this gives me a ton of energy, but it totally does. But at the end of doing 2 or 3 a day, I'm like, I need to turtle, I need to, I need 0 audio input. I need to put my earbuds in so people stop talking to me in this house for a minute.
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Speaker 1 Cheryl
14:02
Yeah, so I get it. But, but, but it gives me energy to do it. 100%. I don't even feel like, I don't feel like I'm performing.
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Speaker 1 Cheryl
14:11
I feel like, oh, this is great. This is fun. But Yes, at the end of the day, I'm like, I ran 12 miles. Yeah.
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Speaker 2 Alan
14:21
And just for what it's worth, I mean, introverts can get very energized, especially in 1 on 1 conversations, right? The 1 on 1 conversations can be very energizing. And that's going to hit some of the other letters that we're going to talk about in just a
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Speaker 1 Cheryl
14:31
second, too. Okay.
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Speaker 2 Alan
14:32
But for example, last Friday, I legitimately did 6 hours of presentation in front of a city government, the directors of 20 different departments at a city government in Florida. And at the end of those 6 hours, bouncing off the wall with energy. So that's extrovert world, right?
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Speaker 2 Alan
14:49
It's not just 3 hours of podcasts, 1 on 1, it's 6 hours on stage with a PowerPoint in front of people, 6 freaking hours all day long. And then my friend picked me up to take me to the airport and I'm still like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? So, so that's extrovert world for you. Right?
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Speaker 2 Alan
15:05
This is as different as fish and birds, right? Birds need air and fish need water. And when the, when the fish looks at the bird and goes, how on earth do you do it with all that air? The bird is like, what are you even talking about my friend?
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Speaker 2 Alan
15:17
How do you even do it with all that water? Right. Like it's. Yeah.
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Speaker 1 Cheryl
15:20
Yeah.
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Speaker 2 Alan
15:20
So something else, and this is I and I think that that you'll appreciate this to the second letter. So the first letter is extra intro, which is just our energy. Where do we get our energy?
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Speaker 2 Alan
15:28
The second letter is sensing and intuition. And so Young and Isabella Briggs-Meyers think that we break down into 2 different categories as far as the way we absorb the world around us. The sensing people, and for those who listen to your podcast who were born before the year 1975, They may know the reference of Joe Friday, just the facts, ma'am, right? Just the facts.
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Speaker 2 Alan
15:52
For those born after 1985, you've probably worked with computers where if you did not give computers the right kind of input, the right kind of search term, whatever, it doesn't compute. The sensing preference is very much like that. It's the Joe Friday. Just give me the facts.
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Speaker 2 Alan
16:10
It's the computer. Give this to me in a linear way. It's people who prefer an outline. It's people who, when they get their furniture from Ikea or Target they actually stop and read the instructions first That's sensing.
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Speaker 2 Alan
16:23
Yeah. Oh, I already know friend. I already know you're not sensing. No.
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Speaker 2 Alan
16:26
Yeah. Yeah, I can tell I can tell about the decor on your bookcase Behind you that you're intuitive. Yeah, oh 100% Okay, So sensing and intuitive sensing is a literal absorption of the world. Now, not everybody can see, not everybody can hear.
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Speaker 2 Alan
16:42
But for those who are sighted and hearing, it's when you look, I actually, in my trainings, I saw a picture and the picture is these 2 kids sitting on a rhino and there are all these stones with patterns on them. There's a woman behind a rock and sensing people will describe it just like I just described it. They will say there were 2 children on a rhino, there were 3 black birds, 1 bluebird, there's 1 behind a rock. They're using words that are colors, numbers, positions, to describe the literal picture in front of them.
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Speaker 2 Alan
17:14
The intuitive folks, When I showed them that picture, they're like, oh, it's children on a journey. They're traveling through a graveyard, right? Huh. They're like, it's in Ireland or I think, I think there's a hobbit in that little hut behind, you know, they're, they're, they're reading into the picture, right?
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Speaker 2 Alan
17:31
They're interpreting as they absorb, sensing people don't interpret as they absorb, they just absorb the facts. And then intuitive people interpret as the absorption happens. Everything is a story that has to be integrated with the other stories. So hello, Mike.
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Speaker 2 Alan
17:48
I know you're an intuitive. I can tell. Yeah. Does that make, does that make some sense?
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Speaker 1 Cheryl
17:52
It does. And it feels very synonymous with empath.
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Speaker 2 Alan
17:56
Very much so. Very much so. And there's even, oh, my sense.
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Speaker 2 Alan
18:00
There's even this thing. And, and in the course I go into this, I think it's a little, it would be a little lengthy to get into here, but where as I tell you about the 2 middle letters, intuition and sensing is 1. And then the next 1 I'm about to discuss, 1 of those is our dominant and ones are sub dominant. And there's a fascinating psychological thing about that too.
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Speaker 2 Alan
18:18
And so like I'm an intuitive, but I'm also a dominant intuitive. And so there's a lot that I can read from people now, now to sometimes it gets me in trouble because sometimes my assumptions are all right. But over time, as I've aged, I've gotten better and better at sidestepping that. But so 1 other example I give people is I'm like, Hey, so, you know, I live in North Carolina.
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Speaker 2 Alan
18:41
I'm like, if ever needed to like invade Tennessee, and I'm a Quaker, so I like war metaphors and I'm not my jam. But if I had a sensing person and an intuitive person, and I needed to go scout a battlefield, I'm going to send my sensing person. And so I describe it. I say, so we send the sensing person, and they come back.
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Speaker 2 Alan
19:00
And there's a guard on the north tower there's a guard on the south tower there's 3 tanks in the middle there's this razor wire there's this many munitions that they're listing it as an intuitive if I was in charge of scouting a battlefield here's what my report would be I'd come back to the general I'd be like so there was a guard in the north tower His uniform reminded me of that guy in saving private Ryan. Did you see setting private Ryan? Oh my gosh. The set and I love the soundtrack to saving private Ryan.
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Speaker 2 Alan
19:26
That's like when I'm going to bed, sometimes I listen to that soundtrack. You know, the general's thinking We're going to die. We're going to die. Right.
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Speaker 2 Alan
19:34
Yeah. So that's sensing versus intuitive. But here's the here's the flip side. It's that same general said, you know, we have to break down camp.
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Speaker 2 Alan
19:43
We have to move in 1 minute. We need to leave this tent in 1 minute. And they have their sensing person and their intuitive person and they say look I have 20 maps of enemy troop movements 20 maps here on the wall of the tent you only have 1 minute and in 1 minute I need you to find the pattern I need you to find the pattern so we'll know where they're going next. The sensing person that was so great at scouting a literal battle, they're going to struggle.
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Speaker 2 Alan
20:07
They're going to struggle mightily. And the intuitive person is going to be like 1 minute pattern 20 maps. Got it. Okay, hold on.
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Speaker 2 Alan
20:14
And they'll zoom out in a way and they'll be like, Oh, let's move this 1 over here. Yup. Okay. Clearly they're going to Knoxville, right?
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Speaker 2 Alan
20:22
So the intuitive is the person who reads patterns as they of the world. And so the picture that I show people literally has these gravestones with mark, these stones with markings, sensing people will describe them as stones with markings. Intuitive people will describe them as gravestones. And, and literally they're reading what's beneath the picture.
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Speaker 2 Alan
20:43
They're literally Telling you there's something there that you can't see right into it right? So that's the second letter so extrovert introvert sensing intuitive and the reason to That you can get jazzed by a podcast thing as an introvert is because intuition is part of it, too, right? That if you were sensing, this probably wouldn't jazz you. If you were introvert and sensing, this wouldn't jazz you up the same way.
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Speaker 2 Alan
21:10
So it's more than just our extrovert introvert. It's introvert that's trying to find meaningful connection. Intuitives are always about meaningful connection, right? So far so good?
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Speaker 1 Cheryl
21:21
Yeah, and explains to me why. And every time I have a host, I do the research and I get prepared and I have the questions. I literally never ask the question because I wait for the intuition and the energy and I don't.
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Speaker 2 Alan
21:38
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a flow
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Speaker 1 Cheryl
21:41
thing.
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Speaker 2 Alan
21:42
It's awesome. Yeah. The third letter is thinking and feeling.
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Speaker 2 Alan
21:45
And so again, the first letter is how we get our energy extra introvert. The second letter is how we absorb the world around us sensing, which is the literal absorbing intuition, which is the metaphorical or the connected observing. But then the third letters were done observing. Now we have to make decisions about life, decisions about what I'm going to have for dinner tonight, decisions about, you know, my team is making a decision about where she, he or they is going to college, making decisions about career stuff, about relationship stuff.
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Speaker 2 Alan
22:13
And young things, we break down into 2 camps, the thinkers and the feelers, the P for thinking and F for feeling. Now this is something that's interesting. In the United States, 65% of men score thinking. And in the United States, 65% of women score feeling.
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Speaker 2 Alan
22:31
But I want to disrupt this a little bit because in Africa, when people take the Myers-Briggs, it's 50-50. In Europe, it's 50-50. Interesting. In South America, there is this gender thing, but not nearly as pronounced.
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Speaker 2 Alan
22:43
And what that is telling me is that there is a societal thing in North America where men are taught to be logical first and women are taught to be person-centered first. And so it's just good information for your listeners to have that these are archetypes, but our societal norms, our family norms can push us 1 way or another and rediscovering who we are deep down can be very powerful, right? 1 example I give people is, I don't know if you've ever heard, seen the musical Les Mis,
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Speaker 1 Cheryl
23:18
or read the book, right? My favorite, actually.
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Speaker 2 Alan
23:21
So, for your listeners who don't know, there's going to be spoilers. And it's based on the novel by, is it Victor Hugo? Right?
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Speaker 2 Alan
23:28
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I can always ask the introvert who to authorize. Yes.
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Speaker 2 Alan
23:32
Because, yeah. So based on the novel by Victor Hugo and so if your listeners have not seen Lame Is then there are spoilers ahead so just get ready there's spoilers. The premise is that Jean Valjean is the protagonist and he I think is meant to be the hero of the story. But Cheryl, do you want to tell people what his original transgression is that lands him in jail?
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Speaker 2 Alan
23:55
Do you remember he steals bread? He steals a loaf of bread. Yeah. So he steals a loaf of bread to feed a starving family.
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Speaker 2 Alan
24:05
Yes. And then he escapes prison and there's this really uptight prison guard or op named Javert who makes it his life mission to hunt down Jean Baljan, this heart hearted criminal who stole a loaf of bread. And so within this, there's a lot of great metaphor for understanding thinking versus feeling, right? If I were at my house and Jean-Baljean came to the door and he tried to escape the cops.
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Speaker 2 Alan
24:34
Do I let him in? Or do I call 911? Is he really the hero of the story or is he the villain? Now, the people who wrote the musical are counting on us to believe that he's the hero because there's a bigger thing.
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Speaker 2 Alan
24:50
It was a starving family that's feeling, feeling, feeling a starving family person centered that is bigger than 1 loaf of bread from a bakery and the principle that it is illegal, that it is not legal. Right. Yeah. That, That I am breaking the law, which is the realm of the thinking and logical folks, for a bigger, better thing, which is helping a person, right?
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Speaker 2 Alan
25:11
And so as we make decisions, and now granted, remember my driving a car metaphor, we use 2 hands, right? But subconsciously, we either lead with feeling or lead with thinking. And Cheryl, I, I'm going to guess that you have a preference for feeling. Can I get, can I guess that?
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Speaker 1 Cheryl
25:29
Yep. Bingo.
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Speaker 2 Alan
25:30
Yep. Yep.
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Speaker 1 Cheryl
25:31
I would have given them more bread.
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Speaker 2 Alan
25:33
Yeah, exactly. It's like, come on in, you know, should we should we knock over a few convenience stores and get more food while we're at it? Like, yeah, yep.
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Speaker 2 Alan
25:41
And so so intuition and sensing is how we absorb the world. But thinking and feeling is how we make decisions about the world. And it's interesting because Isabella Briggs Meyers was pretty active as a feminist. And 1 thing she warned against was the notion that feeling is emotional.
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Speaker 2 Alan
26:01
She wanted to debunk that. It's not emotional because that gets a bad, that gets a bad rap, right? Like all of a sudden it's like, I'm watching a lifetime movie and somebody's judging me for it, right? Or whatever, right?
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Speaker 2 Alan
26:11
Instead it's being person centered in your decision making as opposed to principle centered. And again, my decisions. Yeah. My decisions involve people in principles, But as a feeler, I go people first, principles next.
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Speaker 2 Alan
26:26
Thinkers go principles first, people next. And that's the, I don't know if you've heard, but in the United States, we have 2 different political parties, each of which proposes solutions to different issues. Spoilers, 1 of them is dominated by people with feeling preferences and one's dominated by people with thinking preferences. And so, I mean, there's all kinds of, we can get into that mess.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
26:51
But anyway, that's absurd. Whether you have questions about that, I don't do it a lot of talking, but
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
26:55
yeah, no, that's good. And I'm thinking is as you're talking about thinking and feeling my brain, like with teaching teenagers is like, there's my black and white thinkers and there's my gray area. And it's funny because I spent so many years in spec ed where I would battle with the black and white thinking teachers and sorry to like put them in a lump, but math and science.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
27:24
Right and not understand that I use like spec it is all great. It's all great because even though some of the kids are black and white thinkers in special education, a gray area, because we always have to be thinking outside the box, we always have to shift the perspective. And I think that that's kind of where I'm thinking as you were talking about that and thinking, ah, black and white and gray.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
27:47
Yep. And what's interesting is with those 2 middle letters, the thing that's so fascinating is intuition versus sensing. Intuition is the squishier 1 and sensing is the firmer 1. Thinking and feeling, feeling is the squishier 1 and thinking is the firmer 1.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
28:05
I love it though, because some people have 1 of each. Some people absorb the world as an intuitive, but they'll process like a thinker, or they'll absorb the world as sensing. Give me just the facts, but they process the world as a field. And so those folks can be such the glue people in our organizations and the glue people in our families, the people who are who might absorb the world in a more concrete way and then process it more squishy or absorb it more squishy and process it more concretely for those of us who are absorbing and processing in a squishy way or on the other hand absorbing and processing in a very concrete way and so it's really neat the combinations that we can have right
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
28:43
yeah because those would be the leaders who would connect with everybody
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
28:48
oh my gosh you've got to have those combinations you've got to have those combinations And then the last letter is judging and perceiving. And this one's a little complicated to understand in Jungian terms, but the shorthand is how messy is your work area? That's the shorthand.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
29:05
And, or what is your relationship with your day planner? Right? So in other words, Jay people are known to have a strong purpose for closure. So my wife said, Jay, when she has a to-do list, if there's something that She did that was not on her to-do list that should have been she will after doing it She'll retroactively go put it on the to-do list sure she can have the joy of marking it back off.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
29:32
Right. Okay. That is distinctly J behavior. Right.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
29:36
And so when I say a relationship with your to do list, there's a, there's a, there's an emotional connection to lists in a way. Whereas perceivers are much more, you know, perceivers have to do lists, but it's just a tool that I've got in my toolbox. I have no emotional connection to it. I do it so I can survive and be functional as an adult.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
29:56
It's not something that I have a relationship with like the J people. So, so Cheryl, INFP, INFP, is that your, do you think your type is introvert, intuitive, feeling, perceiving?
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
30:07
Yeah. And the to-do list for me is like journaling. It just feels good to write down what I'm going to do. And you can damn well bet it's going to go in the next day and the next day and
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
30:19
the next day
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
30:19
because I didn't get anything done. I wanted to write it down.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
30:24
Yes, yes. And it's interesting because intuitive feelers, NFs, who happen to also be P's at the end, tend to really enjoy the creative process of creating a new organizational system that they secretly know they're not going to maintain. I'm sorry.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
30:45
I'm so sorry. I'm going to make this really cool color coded guidebook, whatever I'm sure. So, so I do travel agents stuff on the side and I took so much pride. I laser etched like this organizer and it's got tabs with the letters and everything.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
31:00
And it's got the logo and whatever. Do I use it? Right. I mean, I do, but you know, the joy was putting it together that joy is not maintained.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
31:11
Right.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
31:11
Yeah.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
31:12
And so then the J folks, tend to be more closure oriented. They tend to be more organized. And so we need both of these folks because when you're a J and you have an event planned and something doesn't go according to plan, you kind of freak out.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
31:27
And that's when the P people can be like, Hey friends, don't worry. We got it. We got options, options on options on options. Yes.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
31:34
I used to have staff, we used to do like, like large scale event planning. We'd make dances and concerts at this university. And I would always hire staff that had J for their last letter. I didn't make them take the test, but they, I just knew they were J.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
31:48
And because I have a P and I knew I would need them. So when we're planning, they are much more detailed. And not only are they J, but I would hire people if you remember back to the sensing intuition, the literal absorbers, I would hire a lot of people who were literal absorbers who were J's right? That was my that was the people I needed.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
32:07
Yeah
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
32:08
But the third letter I don't care thinking and feeling we can work around that but but the how do you absorb? Are you absorbing the world in a linear way? Cuz I because Alan insurance sure as heck not and And are you organized about it?
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
32:20
Because again, I'm not. So we're planning the event and they are detailed, detailed, detailed. They're helping keeping me grounded. Yeah, yeah.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
32:27
Which is amazing. Then we get to the day of the event, the poster says concert starts at 9 or the dance starts at 9. It's 8 50 and the DJ has not arrived yet. My staff is freaking out because that's, that's not according to the plan.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
32:42
Yeah.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
32:42
Me, me as the perceiver, as the intuitive feeling perceiver, I'm like, look, y'all, look, the poster says that the dance starts at 09:00, except for 2 first year students. The dance doesn't really start the party doesn't start till about midnight. I mean, it does on paper it does, but don't worry about it.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
32:59
Yeah.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
33:00
And then to I've got to keep it the DJ booth through the students from the committee have like their iPods with them. We can play some music for the next 30 minutes and it's going to be fine. So that improvisational when things don't go well skill and aptitude and preference is opposite the organized preference rights.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
33:19
But to make the world work, you need them both. Right?
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
33:23
Yeah. Oh my gosh. I feel like I could talk like this for about 8 hours. Let's try and zone in for a minute on, because we're gonna send everybody to your Myers-Briggs.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
33:34
But let's zone in on, okay, I'm in my house and I have 4 different types. Mom is 1, parent is 1, the other parents the other, I got 2 kids or something else. What are we doing? Are we clashing?
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
33:48
What are we doing?
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
33:50
Oh my gosh. So much conflict. And so to me, the goal is always to meet in the middle and to be intentional about it.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
33:56
I mentioned my colleague, Megan who had to play extrovert for all of her young adolescents, just as you wouldn't get lost in the shuffle. What if her family had talked about type? What if they had been like introverts are awesome, extroverts are awesome. They're just awesome differently.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
34:11
And if you're an introvert that like, what if there had been that conversation? So I'll give you an example. My older son's an extrovert and my younger son's an introvert. When I pick up my younger son from school, he does not want to talk about his day.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
34:24
He just does not. My older son, when I would pick him up from school, it would be everything that, it would be like a transcript of everything that happened academically, socially, extracurricularly. I would get the full CNN report on his day. Right.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
34:39
And so now the interesting thing is I'm an extrovert, but I work out of my home. So I'm by myself at home, craving human contact. My wife who works at a school is an introvert. My younger son who's still in the home goes to school.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
34:53
He's an introvert. They get home, they need quiet. And I need to talk to them. Oh, right.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
35:01
Right. So, so what we do is we do a series of compromises. We do compromises where I pick my son up and I say, Charlie, I'm just gonna ask you 1 question, which is how was your day? I don't want any detail, but later I would love to hear some detail when you've rejuvenated.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
35:15
That's what I say. You know, because I I'm aware that he's an introvert. I'm aware he needs some time to process. Yeah.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
35:22
And, and I put my extroversion on pause, but I don't, I don't entirely pause it because I do say, and I've told him that so I'm like, Charlie, I am going to do at least a check in and I just want you to give me a my day was good or it was rough or it was you know just we're going to meet halfway where I don't I want the whole report. I'm just going to do a little check in so you meet me halfway and then we'll drive the rest of the way home in silence and after you've gotten home had your snack watched your YouTube then you can talk to me about what what you remember from your day. If it's important, right?
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
35:54
How about teaching kids to be self-aware? That's the best. I love that.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
35:58
It's huge. It's huge. Yeah.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
36:00
Something else that's interesting, and this can be helpful for parents and kids, is that when I have extroverts and introverts together, I separate them, and then I ask them to sit in silence. And if you take my course, this is gonna be a little bit of a spoiler, but you sit in silence. And when I'm doing this with groups, I sit in silence for about 90 seconds and then I ask the introverts and the extroverts how long were we in silence and I give them multiple choice. I'm like, was it 60 seconds, 90 seconds, 2 minutes or 2 and a half minutes.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
36:30
The introverts, they have it, nail it. They know it was 90 seconds. Because introverts did not feel uncomfortable. 90 seconds is 90 seconds, whatever.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
36:40
The extroverts will swear it out. Oh, that was at least 2 minutes, maybe 2 and a half. Are you tricking us? Was that really 3 minutes?
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
36:47
And meanwhile, if you're observing them in the room, the experts are fidgeting, they're communicating nonverbally, like they're doing, they don't deal with silence well. Yeah. And they overinterpret how long silence is. Similarly, when I'm with my 15 year old in the grocery store.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
37:03
And as an extrovert, I see somebody who has a shirt from a university where I used to work or something, and I strike up a conversation. My son as an introvert feels like that conversation has gone on for 10 to 15 minutes in real life. It's been about 2, But his perception of how long this is going is skewed because he's an introvert and I'm an extrovert. Right?
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
37:26
So the way we perceive time is even different.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
37:29
Yeah.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
37:30
And so having that awareness of public speaking to an introvert, time will move at a certain clip public speaking to an extrovert, time will move differently. Silence for an extrovert, silence for an introvert. And so building that understanding is huge.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
37:46
It's huge. And so, and so it's better to be aware. And to meet in the middle than it is to not be aware of before I was aware, the first 3 and you might share, you might identify this, the first 3 years of my marriage, I kept asking my wife, are you okay? Are you mad?
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
38:02
What's wrong? Is something wrong? Are you mad? Are you okay?
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
38:05
Okay. To extroverts, silence means there's a problem. Yeah. To introverts, silence is just every day it's, it's water to the face.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
38:16
It's just how it is.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
38:17
Yeah.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
38:18
And so I had to understand. And so I tell, I tell experts and interests. And so I'm, you know, your listeners can benefit from this.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
38:24
I'm like extroverts who are in relationships with introverts, stop bugging them so much. If they're upset, they'll tell you that's number 1. Yes. But now introverts, introverts, Hey, you know how sometimes you think those internal thoughts about how much you appreciate love like someone in your life, say it out loud more than you think you need to if you know they are extroverts.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
38:51
Right. Just, just if you think saying it once a month is cool by 5 times a month, just see what happens. You know, if it's true to you, whatever that thing is, same with this same with job interviews. I tell people, I'm like extroverts.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
39:05
You do not need to tell the person interviewing you that you're excited about the job. You don't need to tell them because they'll know what they want. Introverts be yourself. Don't act extra.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
39:14
Don't be like, Hey, I'm so excited. No, no, don't be that person. Yeah. But if you're an introvert at a job interview, at least 1 time in the interview, just say, Hey, I wanted to let you know that I'm excited about this job.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
39:24
Most introverts assume that people will ask if they want to know, but I'm like, it's sort of your responsibility to let them know. And so, yeah,
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
39:33
I feel like it's cushioning. If you don't know who you're dealing with. Yeah, you're kind of going, okay.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
39:39
Yeah. Like it's something everybody should know.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
39:42
Yeah.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
39:43
Even if someone else across the table doesn't know at least it's in the now it's in the forefront. Okay, maybe he's not pissed off. Maybe even if it's a complete stranger.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
39:53
Yes. Yes.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
39:54
Good information.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
39:56
And then when speaking to people, keep in mind the second letter, if you remember is how people absorb the sensing and the intuitive. Every audience I speak to, everyone listening to this podcast right now, half of them are sensing and want to hear some details. The other half are intuitive and want to know how this applies to their life.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
40:13
Yeah. And so when I'm doing a presentation to like a board of trustees, I give the sensing crowd charts and graphs with numbers Yeah And I followed up with a story about this chart is talking about how we help first-generation college students Be successful through their sophomore year through this program now. I'm gonna tell you about Samantha and Samantha's story. That's the intuitive part, right?
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
40:34
Or I'm going to tell that story. So if you're talking to kids, right? Say you don't know if your kid is sensing or intuitive, you can say, these are the rules sensing and then peel back the curtain on the intuition. Be like, here's how I arrived at creating these rules.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
40:48
And here's the context of why these rules are important.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
40:52
Yes.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
40:53
So you're meeting, you're meeting in both places. You're meeting in both places. Now granted, if you can get your kid to take the Myers-Briggs And by the way, if people are curious, there's a great, and if you take my course, I point to this website called human metrics.com, which has a great free version.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
41:08
I will, I will say though, that just from an ethics standpoint, most typically the Myers Briggs and Jungian typology tests are recommended for people with a 10th grade vocabulary or higher. Okay. Right. So there is a little bit of ableism baked in the cake, sadly.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
41:24
But it was a roughly 10th grade vocabulary should be able to take it and get a pretty accurate height. But, but yeah, it's, it's, it's powerful. It's so powerful. Yeah.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
41:35
Yeah. And I think if I have to say, first of all, you know, parents get like overload with shit to do to make the relationships better. Yes. But there's times when we need to front end load.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
41:49
Yep. There we go. And take the weight off later. Like this is like filling your tank with the best gas because if you're gonna go farther, it's gonna be a better drive.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
42:00
I love it. And listen, teachers, hello. All of these people in your classroom Oh my gosh Good. Okay.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
42:10
I'm gonna ask a question.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
42:12
Okay,
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
42:13
is there a specific type? That would struggle way more as a teen than others
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
42:23
That's a great question. I think that mostly it comes down to your environment in other words if you have a parent That's a hundred percent opposite and you're not talking type. It's gonna be tough.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
42:34
No matter what your type, right? So, so I don't think that there's a specific type that struggles more, just like people ask about different types and different careers. But I will say that I will tell you this much those middle 2 letters. So extrovert introvert most of us can tell most of us don't have to take them out of space to tell that about each other.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
42:53
Right? We can usually pick that up. The last letter judging and perceiving all you gotta do is walk past somebody's desk. And if I showed you my death right now, you'd be like, yeah, he's a perceiver because literally there's a paint roller here and a laser ash wooden sign and my
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
43:08
passport. Caesar, Caesar, Rimmer for my Caesar.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
43:11
Huh. And like hand sanitizer and like the most random assortment of stuff. Okay. And if I were a judge, or would not be on my desk.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
43:19
Yes. So that first letter and that last letter, we can usually tell about our colleagues, our kids, our spouses. We can usually tell, but those middle 2 letters are the process letters. Those are harder to tell.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
43:33
And those are the ones where most arguments show up. In other words, think about the sensing and the intuitive and the, we sent 2 scouts to the battlefield. And now they're arguing about what they saw.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
43:43
Yeah, yeah.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
43:45
Because 1 person saw things in a literal way, but doesn't necessarily yet know how those things connect to each other. The other 1 only absorbed the things as they connected, but forgot some of the details.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
43:58
Yeah, yeah.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
44:00
Hence arguments, right? Or families discussing how they're going to use money for this, a family vacation or investment. When we get to the third letter, the thinking feeling, principles versus people, principles versus people.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
44:12
Our kid, our older kid in college in New York, Going to college in New York is expensive. So financially, you know, we're a little behind in this season of our life. This past fall, my wife went up to visit once and I went up to visit once. Could we technically afford that?
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
44:29
No. But could we afford not to go for the 1 time our kid is in college in New York? No. So notice I asked a principled question and then I asked a person-centered question.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
44:38
The principled question is, can we technically afford it via our bank account? The answer is no, we're going into some debt. But the person-centered question is, can we afford to miss this four-year window of our kid going to college in New York and getting up there for a visit? No, we can't afford that in an emotional person-centered sense, even though we can't afford this in the financial literal sense, right?
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
45:02
And so that's what we all make those decisions. And understanding your Myers-Briggs type means you understand a little bit about how your psyche is operating through those decisions. And it's so much better to diffuse arguments to build better understanding, build empathy. And there's 1 more thing I want to mention to you because I know we're getting low on time.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
45:22
It's okay. It's
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
45:23
okay. There's even more in the 4 letters where if I told you INFP is your type, where I can, INFP, so P points to perceiving. So your intuition, Cheryl, if INFP is your accurate type, your intuition is how people know you. That is your, that is your public face.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
45:44
Yeah. But your inner circle knows the feeling, he knows the feeling person centered decision maker you. And that's actually your Jungian dominant. That's what your dominant is would be feeling.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
45:57
Right? That's it. So you have a dominant And then you have your number 2 is your subdominant and then you bet this thing and this language is a little ableist But it's a metaphor is called your blind spot. Mm-hmm, and your blind spots logic my blinds my blind spot is sensing just so you know So what that means and this is just a teaser for those who are more interested about learning about your blind spot.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
46:18
When you are under stress, Cheryl, I bet when you're under stress, you have a five-year-old version of Cheryl that thinks that she's making very logical decisions, but is making them like a juvenile throwing a temper tantrum.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
46:32
Bingo. That's
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
46:33
gonna high 5.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
46:34
Yeah. Yeah. You got it.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
46:36
My, my blind spot is sensing. Remember sensing when it's someone's tight, they can go to a battlefield and see all the details.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
46:43
Yeah.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
46:44
When I'm under stress, 5 year old Alan shows up and will fixate on 1 detail of something a boss said 10 years ago and go deep into the rabbit hole. That's the flavor of my, of my blind spot. And so I go through techniques on how do you use your type to get out from your blind spot, to get out from that.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
47:02
And so it can help you manage stress. There's so many really great tools that people don't even understand. People, a lot of times, they'll take the quiz, they'll read what things people have their type, and then they just call it a day, right? But there's a lot more depth to it and a lot more use for it.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
47:15
And I want to caution, talk to me, I know, we're running out of time. I just felt let's talk about, Hey, I want my kid to take this test.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
47:22
Yes. Yep.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
47:24
Caution helping him take the test.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
47:27
Yeah. So, so the key about taking the test is you're supposed to imagine what people call in the Myers-Briggs industry, your shoes off self. So what I mean by that is I'm a dad, I'm a, I'm an owner of a company, I'm a spouse. These are all roles I play.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
47:44
I'm a white guy, so I'm not also playing the role of representing women in my workplace or representing black people though. There's a lot of layers that I don't have to deal with that women, people of color, women of color, et cetera, have to deal with on top of this. Your shoes off self is I'm imagining myself retired. I'm imagining myself when I don't have responsibilities or roles to play anymore.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
48:07
And that is hard. That's hard. I can't really unprogrammed parenting from me. I can't really unprogrammed spouse from me, but I try.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
48:18
So before taking the instrument, try to imagine yourself in your happy place. Try to imagine there's a for grownups. I say, I say, if you're, if you're fine with wine, have a glass of wine, sit in a picturesque place, meditate, pray, whatever it is you do to center yourself, and then take the Myers-Briggs. To me, when I take it, I imagine I'm sitting at Epcot down at Disney, I've got my double espresso, it's a beautiful day, Nobody needs anything from me.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
48:46
A client's not calling me up to work on a contract. A kid is not asking me for, I've got no responsibilities. And then I take it. And the reason that's important is because our lives show up in the test.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
48:59
Our lives show up in the test. So I'm an ENFP, extrovert, intuitive, ceiling, perceiver. So you and I share a lot of common ground except when we get our energy. And I used to be a, I used to be a banker.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
49:10
I was a loan officer. I know, right? Terrifying, terrifying. And my, I would frequently go to my boss and I'd say I'd say look man look She's a single mom She her car is broken down, but he has a job interview next week But she needs to get her car fixed so she can get to the job interview So she needs a $600 loan.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
49:30
Can we get her a loan? That's a, that's a feeling argument. My boss would say, what's her credit score? What's her debt to income ratio?
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
49:38
He was a thinking arguments. Now he was smart. He knew I was a feeler. And he knew, I think he may have taken the Myers-Briggs or class.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
49:45
Then he would say to me, Alan, look, look, this is the credit union. If we give her a loan and she can't pay it back, that affects all of our members. And that includes school teachers and Department of Transportation workers. And I'm like, he gave me the thinking, But then he followed it up with a feeling, which was that's good leadership.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
50:04
And so, so I think my, what were we just talking about? Oh, so, so after I was a banker, I took the Myers-Briggs and I scored thinking because it had been drilled into me. You see what I'm saying? Yeah.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
50:16
Is thinking who I am? No. And this is why I'm offering this interpretation. This is why I offer the coaching because you can take the instrument and your responsibilities and your life may creep into it.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
50:27
And you might not get to your shoes off self that you need to get to find your type, which is why I got certified. Because I can help you go through kind of this conversation you and I just had, and your results and compare them to each other. So it's why it's important to have someone who's certified that can help you along the journey because the test may guess the you that's you, or it may pick up work you or parent you or you see what I'm saying?
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
50:57
Yeah. And I think that's really valuable to say if the kids are going to take the test, take them with you. Because your parenting could just skew, oh, my mom won't be happy if I say this. My dad won't be happy if I say this or whatever.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
51:12
Like it's maybe that's where the grade 10 vocabulary comes in because then they can take their own test.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
51:19
Yeah.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
51:20
But who better than to coach through it? Yeah. So there's no skew of outside environment.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
51:27
And that's, and that's the thing is, you know, for kids getting to your shoes off self oftentimes is pretty easy, you know, because a lot of the roles that we carry as adults, they are still, they're still developing those folks. So a lot of kids, you know, probably don't lie awake at night thinking about finding some do, you know, I mean, depending on your privilege level, right. But, but I mean, it's, it's a different thing.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
51:48
It's a different thing. And so, so parents, if you do get your kids to take this, just, just tell them there's no right or wrong answers. There's no right way to do this or wrong way to do this. There's no good personality or bad personality.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
52:01
Just be the most, the most honest with it. You can. And that's their version of shoes off self for parents. I'm like, imagine yourself at Epcot or on the beach or whatever, whatever it is that, you know, for me, it's espresso.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
52:13
For some people, it's a glass of wine for whatever meditation, something to get yourself so that you can for a split second yeah shed the roles that we all play every day yeah and
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
52:25
if you choose the intuition we know we know where you're going
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
52:29
we know exactly And it's so funny because these days I can, I can suss out people's height typically through just a conversation, right? Because I've been working with this for 20 something years. So, yeah.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
52:42
Oh, you have made this so much fun. Like I, I wanted to go down all these paths about, okay, specifically kids, specifically parenting, you know what? You make this fun.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
52:53
You make this manageable. You make this so, like you just got to go see Dr. Mueller and get this Myers-Briggs done and start implementing. Because like I said, you are, yeah, it's another thing on your to-do list, I get it.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
53:09
But your front-end loading, like we've got to, if you're struggling at home, there is an answer.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
53:17
There are, And the great thing is, is that, the course that I offer goes in depth on the blind spot part. I don't know an adult human who's not experiencing stress. I don't know 1.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
53:28
I haven't met 1 yet.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
53:30
And
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
53:30
so, so the question is, is there a real Jungian psychological way to deal with stress? Yes, there is. And can I help break it down without having to like be Jung in the original German?
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
53:40
Yes, I can. Right. I can break it down in just everyday terms. Here's the legit strategy on when I'm in my blind spot here, there are literally 2 questions that I asked myself, right?
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
53:51
And Cheryl, there's 2 questions I could give you that are these powerful questions when you're operating from your blind spot that help you manage stress. And so, I mean, if you've got a spouse or partner or a kid or coworkers, whatever, it can be really powerful. And so my course gets a lot more in depth on that because that's a harder work. It's called blind spot for a reason.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
54:11
It's, it's hard to perceive in ourselves, right. And people who are, are, are on self-awareness journeys, like you, you had pretty quick recognition of when I said, yeah, your blind spot is there's probably a five-year-old Cheryl that defaults to five-year-old logic when you're under stress. But not everyone is necessarily reflective or has the time or energy to go on that journey.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
54:33
And so
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
54:33
for some people, it's a little harder to find and I can help them find it too. Which is, it's tricky, but it can be so, so, so empowering.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
54:41
Yeah. It sounds, it sounds like a goosebumps. I think it's So good. Okay.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
54:46
So aside from where we can find you, what's 1 step parents can do right now?
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
54:53
1 step is you probably know parents if you are an extrovert or an introvert, and if your kids are an introvert or an extrovert, and have that conversation. Just be like, Hey, so do you get your energy more from, and you probably already know, but what happened to conversation be like, Hey, so do you get more energized from talking to lots of people or do you get more energized from like your, your internal thoughts in your internal world. Let's have that conversation.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
55:19
And now as a parent, I'm gonna tell you how I get energized. And maybe sometimes I want to talk a lot and you don't, or you want to talk a lot and I don't. And now we understand. Now we understand.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
55:29
And so let's let's just make a pact. Let's meet in the middle. Like if, if I, if you know, I'm an introvert, and I don't want to talk that much, but I know you're an extrovert and I care about you. And I know you that part of how you might feel cared for is by hearing my stories as an introvert.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
55:47
Like, you know, and this is a thing. Let's meet in the middle friend where I'll curate some stories to give them to you when I've got good energy. And then extrovert, when you've got good energy, learn that being quiet is okay too. Yeah.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
56:02
Yeah. Yeah.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
56:02
A whole new level of eliminating shame Who we are?
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
56:08
Oh my gosh.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
56:09
Oh Mic drop Society thing was a mic drop
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
56:13
society celebrates extroverts and society shames introverts Yeah, you got my my thing about resting Mitch face, right? Like it seems women introverts worse and women of color introverts even worse, worse, right? And so just debunking that.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
56:27
And then also, gosh, because, you know, I'm also a leadership consultant and the idea that that extroversion and leadership have anything to do with each other. They don't, they don't. I, some of the best leaders that I love following are introverts and do they get as much recognition, get as much press time, maybe, maybe not. But once you understand that this is just about where we get our energy, gosh, it opens up a whole new world.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
56:53
Yeah.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
56:53
Do they need it?
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
56:55
And do they, and do they need, what do you mean? Do they need it? Do they need the energy or
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
56:58
does an introvert need all the accolades and all the recognition.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
57:02
No, no. It's hilarious. And anybody who's listening who's been in a work setting, I'm going to tell you something that happens over and over and over again.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
57:10
Somebody will throw out a question. 3 different extroverts will speak before the introvert has even formed their answer. Because the introvert is thinking through the question, thinking through the rough draft of the answer, then thinking through how they would say it, then they're ready to say it. But by that 0.3 extroverts have already said the same thing.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
57:30
Here's the difference though. Here's the fascinating thing. Most introvert are cool with that. They're like, yep, somebody said it.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
57:35
The information is in the room. That's enough. The extrovert extrovert 1 says it. Expert 2 says almost the same thing.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
57:43
Extrovert 3 says almost the exact same thing. The introverts going, why are y'all repeating each other? Because extroverts, it's not good enough that it's in the room. They want to be seen as having as being on the record, being on the record, being witnessed.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
57:57
They want people to bear witness to their opinion, which is valuable.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
58:00
Yeah. Yeah.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
58:01
But they also slow the meeting down by repeating the same thing over and over again And so I tell people I don't know if I may ever saw the movie ghosts, but say ditto, right? Yeah, or you know down in the South we got back to same in Quakers We say friends speaks my mind right just you don't have to repeat all things be like, yep What he said what she said? Yep.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
58:18
I agree. Yes friend speaks my mind high 5 Yep And so that gets you on That's a great way for extroverts to compromise is you get on the record people know that you were thinking that too Because that's important to us. That's important.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
58:31
Yeah. Yeah.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
58:32
Meanwhile, it's annoying to introverts often. And then I tell the introverts, I'm like introverts, you know, that rough draft you went through, there are people in the room who want to know about that rough draft. That rough draft might have nuggets in it that you're refined, that the refined version you're ready to say doesn't have that's going to move this project or this initiative forward.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
58:51
That rough draft has value. And so not don't be who you're not. Don't be an extrovert. But every once in a while, throw your rough draft out and see what happens.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
58:59
When you've got good energy, when you're having a good day, do a little experiment and throw the rough draft down and see what happens. I bet people are going to like it.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
59:08
That's so good because as an introvert, generating those answers takes so much.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
59:15
Yeah.
SC
Speaker 1 Cheryl
59:15
And then someone else blurt it out and not only do I not care. I'm like, oh thank god. I don't have to I'm cool with that good.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
59:23
Yeah Every syllabus I ever saw when it when I saw last participation 20 points every extrovert in the room goes Yeah, all right free points every introvert in the room goes Oh, no how much talking am I gonna have to do to get those 20 points? Right? And so it's, it's a real thing, right?
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
59:40
This is a real life thing. And so you've got it. Once you start understanding it though, you can build environments this way. And when I do presentations, sometimes I say, okay, here's a concept, we're going to have a group discussion.
SA
Speaker 2 Alan
59:54
Other times I hand out note cards first, and I say, here's a question, jot down your thoughts on the note card.
Previous12Next

1 hr 4 min
June 02, 2024 #32 "From Gender Norms to Acceptance: Redefining Celebrations for our LGBTQ+ Kids" with Jennifer Boudrye
Cheryl Pankhurst: Boure. Thank you. Welcome to another episode of Teen Minds redefined where we strive to redefine the relationships we have with our teenagers at home at school ly. And Foster them growing into their true authentic selves as adults. And today I have a beautiful guest Jennifer boudre the driving force be tough behind parent with LLC empowers allies and parents of lgbtq+ Youth through personalized coaching workshops and engaging presentations drawing from her rich experiences as a parent of three adult children one profoundly. start Gabby.
Cheryl Pankhurst: Drawing from her rich experiences as a parent of three adult children one proudly identifying as bisexual and a bonus parent to a transgender, Jennifer seamlessly Blends professional expertise with personal insights as a certified parent coach holding master's degree in library science and educational leadership. Welcome Jennifer.
Info Parent With Care: Thank you.
Cheryl Pankhurst: I am so happy to have you here such an important thing to talk about and awareness. And is there anything you want to add to that before we Jump Right In?
Info Parent With Care: So I think the reason for why I do this work truly is trying to help ensure or create a safe world for all lgbtq+ people. So in addition to the coaching with parents, I'm also the training manager for an Advocacy group in nonprofit in Loudon County, Virginia.
Info Parent With Care: So I'm getting it from a lot of different perspectives and a lot of times people are like, I'm your cisgender white woman heterosexual. Why are you the one doing this work? And I really truly feel I'm so aware of my identity and the responsibility that I have as an ally to help educate and what I end up doing is taking people from a place of fear and confusion to becoming enthusiastic allies that lgbtq+ folks deserve and so just quickly my process. Is in the name of my company which is parent with care and it is compassion awareness respect and empathy. So that's the work we do.
Cheryl Pankhurst: That's beautiful. I like that so. I know there's a kind of touched on it in the bio. But what's your story? Can share that
Info Parent With Care: So yeah, I always try to make it is concise as I can but I have had kind of a marine meeting the Myriad of different things that I've done in my…
Cheryl Pankhurst: Okay.
Info Parent With Care: So way back in 1996 the beginning of the internet. I was hosting a radio show called discovering kids and bringing resources to families that was in Wilmington Delaware. And then I moved back to my hometown of Montgomery County Maryland and trying to find resources for my kiddos. I created internet resource called family net source that I ran for many years. Which was a resource directory helping folks to find the information resources. They need for their kids. That I realized that this thing called health insurance was important so went back to school at the library science degree became a school library media specialist. So I have done a variety of different things for four years. I've worked Pre-K to 12 and for four years. I was the director of libraries for DC public schools. doing tons and tons of adult professional development as well.
Info Parent With Care: But then I realized as I progressed through my life that I was kind of needing a new chapter. So looking at all of the experiences and the things that I've done and the advocacy work that I was doing in the lgbtq space. I realized that people really needed one information and resources to help them understand or learn about because you don't necessarily have to understand. but two combining that with the family Dynamics and folks that need support in parenting. So again everything I've ever done has been about connecting people with information and resources and I really believe that it can help to make a difference and certainly having my own queer kids makes it very very personal for me.
Cheryl Pankhurst: yeah, I hear you my daughter square and she Just got married just over a year ago. To her beautiful partner,…
Info Parent With Care: Congratulations.
Cheryl Pankhurst: Julie. Yes, I'm just it and then I'm gonna get all emotional…
00:05:00
Info Parent With Care:
Cheryl Pankhurst: because I'm so proud of them and not just because they're queer obviously they have just been able to find their love and be themselves and I see every day that we're in the same room together or what, when they're posting and doing reels and just becoming themselves, but It's beautiful, right, that in a mom's heart and…
Info Parent With Care: Yeah.
Cheryl Pankhurst: a parent's heart just to know that you're kid feel so secure and safe. in order to do that and be who they are and it's such a
Info Parent With Care: Yeah.
Cheryl Pankhurst: learning for me to speak my truth more after watching them speak their truth and I love it and it's the coming out story
Cheryl Pankhurst: I have an easy What was your coming out story for your kids and I'm gonna ask first if it's okay for you to share that before because obviously they're not here. Me too.
Info Parent With Care: I do have permission to share always important to be for consent.
Cheryl Pankhurst: I emailed today. Yeah.
Info Parent With Care: So it's interesting. There are two different scenarios. So my son I always knew was not straight. And so I keep grew up in the 80s and I was really a picotine mentality, right? You're either gay lesbian or straight. and awesome Choose You so he grows up and is in college and someone had yelled in the effler at him the cross campus. So he wrote an ed. For his College Newspaper in which she came out as bisexual.
Info Parent With Care: And I was like, I dont what is that? I didn't understand what it was but I was like, all right, we're gonna roll with that I know so I've had to learn a lot and understand much more about what my sexuality is and certainly now in doing a lot of training and coaching around gender and sexual identities. I certainly understand it now, but it was really just a couple of months ago that he shared with me that my mentality and my limited understanding really prevented him from fully identifying himself.
Info Parent With Care: And then also coming out to me or the world as bisexual and so I often say that I have the two most marginalized of the letters under the rainbow in my family. There's a lot of biphobia and so there that is a struggle into itself. My bonus son. I met at the very start of his transition when he was 26 and so he had grown up as a lesbian female.
Info Parent With Care: as he grew and became more aware of himself and possibilities in his life he chose to transition on medically and surgically And when I met his father, there was some tension and that led to he and his son having really a two-year period of no communication. And it was heartbreaking and so I will say this is before I became a parent coach. I realized now that I was doing some coaching along the way I will I'm thrilled to say that they are now very very happily reunited as a family they've done a lot of repair work. So it's always possible and I get to hang out with my 18 month old bonus grandson every other week, which is amazing and…
Cheryl Pankhurst:
Info Parent With Care: wonderful, and so It's been a challenging coming out for in both situations. And the reality is there's no coming out. One and done right? It is a forever and ever and always thing having to come out over and over and over again, especially for folks who are trans and who transition later in life because there are a lot of people…
Cheryl Pankhurst: Mm-hmm
Info Parent With Care: who know them from their previous gender. and as parents you're having to come out to new groups of people, As you move through life, you're not sure you got to check who's safe who's not before you can share what you need to share or…
Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.
Info Parent With Care: or if you share anything.
Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah, and here's the thing. You don't have to. the feeling like…
Info Parent With Care: No, it's nobody's business.
Cheryl Pankhurst: why didn't you tell me or why did no, but you don't have to it's Just as private and personal as anything. That you have in your heart.
Info Parent With Care: Yeah.
Cheryl Pankhurst: I mean I don't feel the need to say you should have or I didn't know or no because you didn't know it doesn't change me as a human,…
00:10:00
Info Parent With Care: And I don't and I want to make it clear right and…
Cheryl Pankhurst: right? Yeah.
Info Parent With Care: I want to make it clear that I don't in other spaces right ways because this is the topic of the podcast which is why I identify that I have a bisexual son. My transgender bonus son. I don't walk through the world announcing their gender and sexual identities…
Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah, no.
Info Parent With Care: because it doesn't matter and…
Info Parent With Care: this is what
Cheryl Pankhurst: Because we wouldn't do that.
Cheryl Pankhurst: In any other sense of Assistant we just wouldn't do that. So, I don't understand I should say don't understand.
Info Parent With Care: No, no.
Cheryl Pankhurst: I don't Have a hard time with that part of it.
Info Parent With Care: Yeah. Yeah,…
Cheryl Pankhurst: and so tell me about
Info Parent With Care: I agree.
Cheryl Pankhurst: helping parents to understand so Let's say somebody a parent is Right In the initial stages of their son or daughter. coming out
Cheryl Pankhurst: and they're completely shocked. What's the second piece of advice? and in s shock is a natural reaction if you absolutely have no idea. But how do we move from that initial shock where we're continually allowing our children to feel safe with us?
Info Parent With Care: So I give parents a script. Hopefully that they'll hear before their child comes out to them which is why I love sharing these conversations. Is to say three things if your child comes out to you first of all understanding that your internal response. Needs to stay internal regardless of what it is. Okay, so you don't dump your fear your emotion your sadness your shame any of that onto your kid? So if your kid comes to you and shares that they are identifying as lgbtq+. You say three things one. Thank you for sharing that. Takes a lot of trust and I love that we have that much trust that you're sharing it with me. Two, I love you. Hard stop period no rejoinder no conditions. I love you. three
Info Parent With Care: What do you need from me right now so that you feel fully supported?
Cheryl Pankhurst: beautiful
Info Parent With Care: Then you can freak out and you can in all of that is normal right anytime. A kid shifts anything different than the image that we have of who they are or who they're going to be. It takes an adjustment. And so it is important to manage that individually. With the coach with friends with support groups and not bring that to your child, If you have questions and need information. What is it to be transgender or pangent or pan sexual or any of the amazing colors under the rainbow? There's a lot of ways to get information without asking your kid to educate you.
Cheryl Pankhurst: yes, and now At this stage of the game. I love that. My daughter and her wife are very comfortable calling me out at any point in time when I said something that might trigger somebody and I'm so Grateful that I don't have an ego that some people would have and say I don't know, and just resist all of that and Thanks for correcting me and I will make these mistakes all the time. I do I make them.
Info Parent With Care: Yep, because you're human being.
Cheryl Pankhurst: Yes, and I'm quite grateful when I get called out so that I'm now okay. It's in my head. Hopefully I won't do it next time. I will do something else that's wrong. Call me out again, and that's totally fine. and…
Info Parent With Care: Yeah.
Cheryl Pankhurst: I so grateful that they do that.
Cheryl Pankhurst: So if you're talking now to parents and you're thinking about what kind of obstacles now most my audience or parents of teens, not that that matters, but I'm just thinking of different tacles. What kind of obstacles can you see a parent facing with their child? And how do I kind of navigate that?
Info Parent With Care: There's so many mean Period right so first of understanding that gender and sexual identity is one aspect of your kiddo, So you're gonna have all of the traditional same issues that any child has any adolescent. my youngest is 27. So I am well beyond that.
Info Parent With Care: But I think I mean there's so many different obstacles one. It's coming out to family and friends when and how and I ask always that parents let their kiddo lead the way that is their story. They may need your help to share with other people. They may need you to run interference. They may want you to not share with certain people and you need to respect that because that's how you build or break the trust with them understanding the sexual implications, right? What is this mean if Your child is lesbian. maybe we don't worry about getting pregnant, but there are a whole host of other things right and not focusing so much on the physical that you forget the emotional aspects of sexuality. super important
00:15:00
Cheryl Pankhurst: yeah.
Info Parent With Care: If your kiddo is transgender and is going on puberty blockers, and then perhaps medically transitioning. You might end up going through puberty twice with your kiddo or a much later puberty. So knowing…
Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.
Info Parent With Care: where they are socially compared to their peers is an important Dynamic to keep track of and really paying I mean I won't cite all of the scary statistics around queer teens. I always recommend people look at the Trevor projects. Survey on mental health and…
Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.
Info Parent With Care: it's scary and all of the scary statistics are completely wiped away when that child has supporting affirming family and people that love them. So what I want folks to know above all is again, you don't have to understand it. You just have to believe who your child says. They are in this moment. and I think with teens also parents have perhaps The Hope or the fear that their child is choosing and identity because of social structure or social impact and social media and peer influence or they're like, they keep changing their identities and first it was this and now it's this and I can't keep track. All of that is normal as you know, I'm 57. I'm still learning things about myself.
Info Parent With Care: And you know who I am as a person. So to expect a child not to go through a process of discovery. is unrealistic, right? I mean kids know their own gender by age three.
Cheryl Pankhurst: yeah.
Info Parent With Care: But often we're all socially conditioned to believe in a heteronormative binary. And so this is where we see people coming out later in life because they're learning and understanding themselves more. And people know their sexuality usually social orientation usually around age 10. But they are may or…
Cheryl Pankhurst: Okay.
Info Parent With Care: may not be aware of it themselves or be willing to admit it to themselves.
Cheryl Pankhurst: I love how you said we don't have to understand that and I feel like that goes. For everybody there's so many conversations when I was working in the schools and so many conversations around. I just don't understand why I just don't get it. Why can't they just I didn't And you don't have to understand. There's no reason for you to even need to understand.
Info Parent With Care: No. No.
Cheryl Pankhurst: You just need to be kind and be human and that's where it stops especially when it's not family. But if something else I wanted to when you were talking about, coming out to the family. when I was running the GSA at school I did have a number of students whose grandparents just
Cheryl Pankhurst: couldn't understand it. And what I tried to explain to them is maybe not for sure, but maybe they're coming from the time where if you were anything but straight.
Cheryl Pankhurst: Seen happen. Does that make sense?
Info Parent With Care: Yeah, it all comes from fear. And if you look at over the history over time there have been times in our history even in this country where That it just was right and then there became a look surprisingly enough a political pushback. And here we are again, right? And so what scares me is I see kids now that are afraid to identify as transgender. afraid and…
Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.
Info Parent With Care: we are in a society right now that is not safe for a lot of kids or a lot of adults, a lot of queer people yeah, and I think this is where we get into let's have Grace on both sides. Right? We want our kids to have Grace for our limited understanding and our growth and awareness and we need to have Grace for our kids to have the same process. And so I think it's when conversations have to happen back and forth like you were saying earlier you're going to make mistakes. You're a human being we all have intrinsic bias. It is embedded in us from before we're born.
00:20:00
Info Parent With Care: And we need to make sure that people have the opportunity to have the conversations and I will approach people and say if I hear somebody with a very definitive opinion about my responses help me understand, where did that come from? How did you get to that place? And then I'll understand more of the background.
Cheryl Pankhurst: Mm-hmm
Info Parent With Care: Is it coming from a religious perspective is coming from a political perspective or they've never met anyone who was queer and the only thing they've seen is willing Grace and so it's all kinds of things.
Cheryl Pankhurst: I love that. that's a night drop for me because I'm going to take that I'm gonna hold on to that because that's such a great way to come back and have that conversation. I really like that. So in our schools right now, I'm gonna jump all over the place because things just pop into my head…
Info Parent With Care: Yeah.
Cheryl Pankhurst: but in our schools right now. There's this debate. About if kids want to change their pronouns. Or identify with a different name in school. There's the big debate. Do we have to tell the parents do we not have to tell the parents?
Info Parent With Care: Yeah.
Cheryl Pankhurst: so in my experience limited experience and Most parents are fine. It never seems to be a problem. We're changing report cards or changing not a problem, but there are some. Where the kid is just not feel safe at home.
Cheryl Pankhurst: Being who they really are, but there is one place where they feel safe. And I have a funny feeling. I know what your opinion and this is gonna be but how do you feel about that situation? Is it an absolute? Yes, we have to tell parents or We're not changing names. how do you feel about that?
Info Parent With Care: So first I'm going to say 40% of queer kids. Do not feel that they have a welcoming home environment. That's a lot of kids.
Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.
Info Parent With Care: All right, so I actually did a training for school resource officers in my county and this, came up obviously.
Info Parent With Care: I go to a place of your job is to keep that child safe. so if a Cheryl child shares with you their identity again, thank you. I see you and I hear The third question for an educator is who else knows and who can't know? So once you have identified if my parent finds out my caregiver finds out that I'm out on the street believe them because that is their truth,…
Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.
Info Parent With Care: So I recommend folks do something that I call Proactive code switching which is you say to the kid. I see you I am going to refer to you by the name and the pronoun that you are sharing with me. understand that when I talk with Whoever the other person is that they don't feel safe with whether it's other teachers or parents or Administration. I'm going to refer to you by the name and gender that is on record. But know that I'm doing it intentionally to keep you safe.
Cheryl Pankhurst: Yes.
Cheryl Pankhurst: Yes.
Info Parent With Care: That's the part of the conversation that I think doesn't get focused on enough is being transparent the pun intended with the kid that you're doing it on purpose not to be disrespectful…
Info Parent With Care: but to keep them safe. the hope is that then you build the rapport with family and I've been in this situation with multiple children and I've Had It Go a variety of different ways and my job as an educator is to keep the kids safe period And so if that meant I'm the only one that knows this, I would have kids sometimes write your name if you hand out a paper write your name at the top right there's how to sticky note on it. So they could write whichever name they wanted me to use that gets pulled off and when it goes home, it's got their name of record on it. So there are a lot of ways to get around it and still support the kids. But it's terrifying for educators right A lot of them are afraid they're going to lose their jobs.
Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.
Info Parent With Care: You can still have that conversation with the child. And let them know that you are there for them and…
Cheryl Pankhurst: baby
Info Parent With Care: you support them and these rules are creating the problem.
00:25:00
Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. Yeah, I've had those conversations with the kids and have said to them multiple times. But I this So let me know you need to call me out. I might screw this up in front of somebody and it's so important. I don't think I've ever done a screw up in front of the parent but in talking to another teacher or whatever, so I think that's Good to say, just in case it will be on purpose and not out of disrespect and…
Info Parent With Care: And no and…
Cheryl Pankhurst: I like that conversation.
Info Parent With Care: know that I mean when I taught I was on the Middle School librarian 650 kids and I always would say I had 650 kids all named sweetheart because I couldn't remember half their names and so, it would be very easy if I mistakenly, out at a kid to flip that scenario around so that it was clear that I was just making a mistake and so I want to address also the mistake piece right the apology…
Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.
Info Parent With Care: because again, we all do it and this is something comes up all the time when we talk about pronouns. What if I get it yourself move on.
Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.
Info Parent With Care: That's it.
Cheryl Pankhurst: it's so important because it's not about you if you made the mistake, it's not about you. just
Info Parent With Care: Yep.
Cheryl Pankhurst: so I want to talk about supports in schools. How can schools? Lay a foundation of safety in the school. I mean, we can have our flags and we can have our signs and we can have safe spaces fantastic, but is there something more? Intrinsic we can do for people to make everyone feel safe. And there's even the Converses the flippant conversations about all gender bathrooms. And I know why is he going in her and what and I understand and I don't know how many times I said to an adult. If that's challenging for you, can you imagine what their life is like?
Cheryl Pankhurst: So suck it up watch them go whatever they want to go into and…
Info Parent With Care: Yeah.
Cheryl Pankhurst: there's just those little things we think. my goodness.
Info Parent With Care: Yeah, it is.
Cheryl Pankhurst: Life is hard enough. right
Info Parent With Care: Yeah this is where again, schools are so embroiled in politics right now. It's really hard to separate. But in a perfect scenario Not only we wouldn't just have all gender bathrooms right? There would be individual bathrooms for individual humans. Because that keeps everyone safe.
Cheryl Pankhurst: Yes.
Info Parent With Care: I've been in places where every toilet was in a stall and there were communal sinks. Because we can hand wash our hands together. Right and those can be open in an airport kind of a concept I was at the pflag convention and…
Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah, there you go.
Info Parent With Care: they had put signs on the bathrooms that I loved and it said one. This bathroom has stalls and urinals this bathroom has stalls. That was it. Right and…
Cheryl Pankhurst: bingo
Info Parent With Care: it's a matter of which equipment you need, but I think other things that schools can do is I ha School librarian here. Please allow kids to read what they want to Stop censoring books. Stop pulling them away a trust the kids to have the awareness that they are reading what they want and need to read. Same with curriculum, there are queer There are people of color that have added so much to our history and they need to be included and the truth needs to be included, but then I think the main thing is And I remember years and years and years ago. We were doing race and courageous conversation around the anti-racism and anti-racists were.
Info Parent With Care: Still comes down to the same thing, which is look at people's Humanity. And so if a child is being bullied or picked on for anything. That behavior cannot be tolerated. It can't be tolerated from adults.
Cheryl Pankhurst: .
Info Parent With Care: It can't be tolerated from other children. And you haven't creating a safe space and affirming inclusive space. Like you said, it's not just about flags and just about having the person of the month or the marginalized community of the month. It is about respecting Humanity. And respecting every individual person's right to be themselves.
Cheryl Pankhurst: So we talked about helping. parents accept how do we turn that around and you're Of a child who's not quite sure and is having a tough time accepting their own identity. how do we support that as parents?
00:30:00
Info Parent With Care: I think it's acknowledging that it's a hard thing to figure the messaging that we get and this is I know I tell a story to pretty much every time I talk with someone I mentioned that my trans son has a son as a child and when his wife had the sonogram that indicated gender or sex at that point he came back and it's a boy and I'm like really is it Right, you're a trans man,…
Cheryl Pankhurst: But yeah.
Info Parent With Care: that penis doesn't mean But we're there, So from pre-birth, we are conditioning kids to be a specific something and…
Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.
Info Parent With Care: so understanding that at all of the conditioning that they're receiving from us and from everywhere in the world. Are very strong messages right understanding that clearly the political climate that we have is not welcoming and affirming right? There is just so much that is terrifying. Especially for kids and especially what you were talking about adolescence. They're trying to figure out everything about themselves. And so give them the grace and…
Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.
Info Parent With Care: the space and this is why I say it all the time believe who your child tells you they are in this moment.
Cheryl Pankhurst: Yes, yes.
Info Parent With Care: And that's it because it might very well change and…
Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah.
Info Parent With Care: evolve and over time. Even I am very good friend who I met as genderfluid, right? They grew up theme as very masculine presenting recognize that they weren't cisgender male for years gender fluid now has come to the realization that they're female and they are a trans Woman and that's all okay.
Cheryl Pankhurst: I won't rest until gender reveal parties are done.
Info Parent With Care: Jenna it should be genital reveal parties.
Cheryl Pankhurst: I won't rest I won't rest.
Cheryl Pankhurst: It makes me crazy.
Info Parent With Care: That's what it is.
Cheryl Pankhurst: It makes me crazy and it's come up in a couple of topics on different episodes. I've done because It's just so from the moment you celebrate with the other siblings to then, it's a boy. I have five boys. I really wanted a girl. That is like
Cheryl Pankhurst: Injected into your child's system injected it is dripping this intravenous of you're not accepted and…
Info Parent With Care: Yeah.
Cheryl Pankhurst: it needs to Wish I could just wave my own flag about gender reveal gotta go.
Info Parent With Care: again, we just will start calling them genital reveals, and maybe it might take me people uncomfortable enough that they'll stop right.
Cheryl Pankhurst: There you go.
Cheryl Pankhurst: You really need another party and more gifts. I don't understand honestly. that might be another story. so As we just start to wrap up.
Info Parent With Care: I agree.
Cheryl Pankhurst: Can you?
Cheryl Pankhurst: kind of end us off with some advice what we can do what you would say to a parent in a moment of time where they're just feeling like and where can we look for resources and where even experimenting if I'm thinking maybe I am transgender. Maybe I am a different identity. And I know I'm not safe. Where do I go? Who do I call? What are the numbers?
Info Parent With Care: Yeah, so I will send you for the show notes. A bunch of resources that people can connect with…
Cheryl Pankhurst: Perfect.
Info Parent With Care: because are Some of them are support groups. Clearly. I'm available for folks who need to talk and finding places where you have that safe space to truly just feel all of your feelings, If you enter a support group and you find that you're getting pushback because you express sadness that's not necessarily little pace for you, right so that all of your feelings it sounds so cliche, but all of your feelings are valid, Right, it's not up for anyone else to judge you or tell you how you're feeling whether or not you should feel that way you feel that way.
00:35:00
Cheryl Pankhurst: right Yeah.
Info Parent With Care: So you have to process and dig through where does that come from? And what is it that you are afraid you're losing so, going through and finding places where you're able to do that type of processing super helpful the vast majority of the people that I work with identified as allies until their own kid came out and what
Cheryl Pankhurst:
Info Parent With Care: How do I do wow is this work? Right? I thought it was just other people I was at their supporting. So it's harder it becomes real so there is a lot of information. And again, I'll provide those resources. The other thing is even if your kid is not queer create as far as making sure that they have opportunity to connect with and interact with other kids and I'll give a little plug for something. I'm getting ready to launch not knowing when this podcast come out it might be out which is the queer camp fair.com.
Cheryl Pankhurst: Say more.
Info Parent With Care: Whatever, so I'm ource going back to what I did 97 creating a resource directory for camp summer camp experiences that are self-identifying as affirming for lgbtq+ kids and it's not just queer camps, right? It's camps any camp that is willing to state that they are affirming and there's some criteria that they have to meet. And they're not just for queer kids, right therefore anyone and everyone to be seen and welcomed and experience an amazing summer. So I'm really really excited and I'm just working on the tech behind the scenes try to get it all together. But if your kid is straight and you want them to grow up in a world where they're accepting and affirming and loving of other people seek out opportunity like that.
Cheryl Pankhurst: 100% that's amazing I don't know if this is all of her Facebook, but there is a Facebook group. And it's called Stand in Pride, Canada. And anyone who wishes to be an ally? can and I've done this I think I did this a couple of years ago anyone who wishes to be an ally and then anyone from the community can come out and say My mom won't come to my wedding. And if you're in the…
Info Parent With Care: Yeah.
Cheryl Pankhurst: if you're in the area, will you come to my wedding? Will you walk me down the aisle? Can you just give me someone to talk to and it's just amazing and sometimes it's just posting back and forth just messaging back and…
Info Parent With Care: Yeah.
Cheryl Pankhurst: forth and it's just a beautiful community. And so I don't know…
Info Parent With Care: It is international there's a standard Pride International and…
Cheryl Pankhurst: if good.
Info Parent With Care: then there are a lot of standard Pride per States and Northeast or regions. So yeah, there are and this is The other thing to keep in mind and there's I think is something that we're all getting our heads around is that family is much more than blood right is finding your family in the people that are going to affirm you and love you and support you. is vital
Cheryl Pankhurst: Yeah. yeah, I just Honestly don't think there's anything more beautiful than seeing somebody. See themselves and feel safe and then find their love. And any gender I don't care…
Info Parent With Care: Yeah.
Cheryl Pankhurst: who it is, but it's just magic and I know you're a parent so when you see it as a parent. Nothing Else Matters Nothing Else Matters and…
Info Parent With Care: No.
Cheryl Pankhurst: if there's things in your way You can get help you can.
Cheryl Pankhurst: Call Jennifer there's resources there's Pages there's things to do. Don't let that stand in your way because there's just nothing more beautiful honestly, and we need way more awareness. We Can't Stop has to keep moving forward. We can't slow down. So I thank you for your work. It's so important and…
Info Parent With Care: Thank you for this opportunity.
Cheryl Pankhurst: I really enjoy this conversation and if we have more questions then maybe we jump on again and talk about something else…
Info Parent With Care: Sounds great.
Cheryl Pankhurst: but this is fantastic. Thank you so much and thank you for listening to teen Minds redefine and our beautiful guest Jennifer. Everything will be in the show notes. Don't forget to share specialty episodes like this because you just never know who needs to hear this. Thanks for stopping by.
Info Parent With Care: Absolutely. Thank you.

41 min
May 29, 2024 #31 "Connecting with Your Teen: Empowerment :Thriving Through the Teenage Years" with Anna Bohuslavska

00:15 - 00:48
Cheryl - Host: Welcome to another episode of Teen Minds Redefined, where we try to reimagine our relationships with our teens and allow them to foster themselves to become their own authentic human beings as we push them off into this big, huge world of ours. And today we have a beautiful guest, Anna Bogusławska. So brace yourselves parents, because Anna from Inner Bloom is about to drop some serious wisdom bombs on understanding and connecting with your team. Welcome Anna, it's so nice to have you.
00:49 - 01:03
Anna - Guest: Welcome, I'm glad to be here. Thank you for inviting me and I'm glad to share my story and my knowledge with all parents out there. So their relationships with their teens will be much easier.
01:04 - 01:15
Cheryl - Host: Yes, I love your energy around the whole subject already. So tell us first, tell us about you, tell us your story. What inspired Inner Bloom? What's your mission? Like give us all the, give us all
01:15 - 01:55
Anna - Guest: the fans. Yes, I am, now I'm focusing on as a transformational coach and I help women to live a happy joyful life and fulfilling life but all for me started more on parent-kids relationships and basically for me my journey in coaching and psychology started when I became first time my mom. And I remember holding my son, he was crying and I couldn't calm him down. And I remember I was standing in a hallway trying to calm him down and I felt like this instant urge to stop him crying like no matter what and how and it
01:55 - 02:36
Anna - Guest: literally scared me scared me like what's going on why I'm rocked this way and My relationship with my mom was not perfect and the way I was raised I thought that it's not like the way I want to raise my kids So I had no someone to ask like give me some advice is how to be able to deal with that so I went studying and learning And I was lucky enough that I faced an online Facebook community and went on the courses of the Gordon Newfield. It's 1 of the top lead in parents-kids relationships and
02:36 - 03:12
Anna - Guest: I was lucky enough to meet him in person, to learn from him. And those knowledge changed and shift a lot of understanding of myself, a lot of understanding how to raise my kids and those knowledge was so powerful that I started the support group for parents and I started helping other parents to build their relationship with kids. While I shifted more from that because the more I worked with parents, the more I saw that if mothers themselves will be healing inside, then it would be much easier for them to build the relationship with kids. So yeah,
03:12 - 03:12
Anna - Guest: that's
03:12 - 03:14
Speaker 1: how it started for me.
03:15 - 03:23
Cheryl - Host: So tell me what was maybe your top 3 takeaways from Newfield? I know there's a million, but yeah,
03:23 - 04:07
Anna - Guest: it's a million. It's hard to distill, but yeah, I would say that we all have this inner potential to be the best person. And we have like everything we need within ourselves. The second 1 probably is that it's never too late. It's not too late like when your kid is just born, It's not too late to rebuild relationship with kids. It's 3 years old, teen, and so on and so forth. It's never too late. And third, probably just understanding the underlying psychology of our behavior have tremendous effect on my relationship, not only with my kids, but
04:07 - 04:09
Anna - Guest: with anyone around me.
04:09 - 04:47
Cheryl - Host: Yeah, so and whenever I say, you know, talk about you as a teen, I always kind of prophesied with our parents did what they did with what they knew. And everything was out of love. It just sometimes wasn't perfect, but it was out of love. So having said that, what is your teen story? And how would this mindset would have been different for you if your mom knew Neufeld, if your mom did these things? How would that have changed you as a teen?
04:49 - 05:36
Anna - Guest: Well, yeah, and I will start my story a bit earlier than the teen because teen it's like the top of iceberg but there is a lot underlying. And basically while I was raised and coming to the teen age our relationship got so apart like I didn't felt the emotional connection I didn't felt their emotional support and from the early childhood like literally from the first grade probably I have this thought that I need to deal with my emotions on my own. And that, like, there was 1 of uses of like timeout, but it was in a
05:36 - 06:14
Anna - Guest: way that go cry to your room when you're ready to come out. And basically what it's saying to the kid in their brain that you are not accepted with those emotions. Go deal, put yourself in a cookie cutter and come back to me. That's why when I came to the teen age, whenever I faced like this first crash, first heart broken and all the stuff that any teen go through, I had no 1 to come to ask for questions for support and I was lucky because I found this natural way of releasing emotions through poetry and
06:15 - 07:05
Anna - Guest: I wrote a lot of poems to release those emotions and put it all in a paper. And it helped me. And it was, I would say, this safe space for me to put it on a paper and release and I think it saved me because the thing that I was going through different phases, looking back it was harsh and I was lucky that I found this but not everyone found. So that's why it's important before teenage comes to save this relationship, to be them safe for kid to come to you to ask questions to seek for
07:05 - 07:15
Anna - Guest: support because at the teen it could be a bit late to like fully extend but it's definitely manageable it just would take longer.
07:16 - 07:32
Cheryl - Host: Yeah yeah So as you went through high school, like your social, those connections, how did that go for you? What did you think of high school? Like did you love it? Did you hate it?
07:33 - 08:17
Anna - Guest: Well, I think it was a roller coaster for me because I was raised in Ukraine and we have a little different structure of school itself so basically you don't change classes every single year. You have like this strict 30 kids that come into the first grade and all the way to the 12th grade. So you know those people and you don't change the surrounding. Well, if someone moves, yes, but basically the same people. So you pretty well know all these people. And for teens, I think it's hard than, in a way that if you change inside
08:17 - 08:43
Anna - Guest: it's harder to like be yourself in the surrounding where everyone knows you different because I remember when I graduated from school and went for the college how much relief I felt that I can be myself I can spring my will And relationship that was built with me was totally different than was at school. Because like there's new people, they don't know you're a blank slate for them.
08:43 - 08:50
Cheryl - Host: Yeah, That's interesting. I had no idea the Ukraine school system was like that.
08:50 - 08:51
Anna - Guest: Yeah, it's
08:51 - 09:27
Cheryl - Host: very different. Yeah. So, okay, let's say, never too late. So for parents now, what can they start looking for in their teens where they're going to go, oh, we need to do something here. What kind of behavior, not even behaviors, because to me behavior is just a communication, but what would signal a parent to say, oh, we need to sit down, we need to change gears, we need to do something different?
09:28 - 10:20
Anna - Guest: Well, I would say If the teen is totally looking for role models in his peers, this is a big red flag. Because teens, they're supposed to be in the surrounding of them like Pearson building relationship knowing but still they're like role models should be other old people, so they can share some wisdom some knowledge and it's all started a bit earlier and but if you are here and you see that your teen is like super oriented to others it's better to try pull him in but in a sort way not just like forbid to play with
10:20 - 11:05
Anna - Guest: us. No, it's will cause just more harm. First of all, you can invite those peers to your house and build with them relationships so they all like under your wing. Also, you can introduce your team to another trusted adults who can guide them. It could be aunts, it could be some like neighbor and someone who you trust that they will share the wisdom and it could be through activity for example your team will go like mow the lawns with your uncle but do some chores with other like interacting with different adults and inviting them to do
11:05 - 11:44
Anna - Guest: things together. And I know that a lot of parents like, but we have totally different interests, like they interested in video games, but I don't like that. Well, be curious for a moment, Be curious what it's looking there, why there's interest. Maybe you can find something that will be like interest for both of you. And it's like this building connection because we need to understand that parents, when they, parents for the small kid, they're like, I know for them they like this greater model that know everything. But at the teens, it started to shift and teens
11:44 - 11:52
Anna - Guest: like see flaws of y'all. They see like, mom is not perfect. She make this mistake and they will underline it.
11:56 - 11:57
Cheryl - Host: You're so right.
11:58 - 12:38
Anna - Guest: Yes. And, And also they see like, okay, in the world there's like different parents, that parent do different and they have this ideal picture that started to crash and turn into pieces. They see that the world is not ideal. And they also have these emotional swings when 1 day there's as a little child mommy feed me from the spoon another day I will do all on my own. And they basically on the bridge between adulthood and childhood but it's not a smooth ride it's like this swinging swing back and forth back and forth and we need
12:38 - 13:11
Anna - Guest: to like try to pull them in and see how we can support them and it starts basically from like genuine interest in what they interested in about. Imagine if it's your friend, like, basically our relationship with kids in teen age should shift from parent kid to mentor kid. Like, we're there to support, we're there to give advice, but we're there to give them a chance to make their own mistakes and pick them up and help them to find the way out of that mistake.
13:11 - 13:36
Cheryl - Host: Yes, yeah, you said about 3 things I want to nail right now. And finding a trusted adult, like it doesn't, I think that might break a few hearts for parents, like, but I want it to be me, but I want it to be me. But if you're not at a stage where it is you, there has to be somebody. So you might have to just kind of put
13:36 - 13:36
Anna - Guest: that aside. And you know,
13:36 - 14:16
Cheryl - Host: your kid will see you connect with somebody else as well, and allow them to connect with somebody else for their best interest. So it won't go blind that you've done this for your kid either. But I do find like sometimes for whatever reason, it just doesn't click at first that relationship, especially I think if you're switching gears really quickly, they're like, what the hell are you doing? What happened? But to, yeah, put them in the place of an aunt or a coach or whatever and allow them to and not be, I want to know everything they
14:16 - 14:24
Cheryl - Host: said, but just be able to feel safe with that adult and have those conversations. I really like that you said that. So I think that's really important.
14:25 - 14:48
Anna - Guest: And especially if the relationship is not in ideal place when you find yourself in the teenage, it would be hard for them to come to you for advice. And that's why when there is a trusted adult that you trust, they will support, they will find this not in the peers or internet on how to deal with this stuff but in a trusted adult.
14:48 - 15:29
Cheryl - Host: Yes, so good, so good. And again, when you said, you know, from parent to mentor, I almost say the same thing, I say coach, but your kid is the main player and we can't control how all that's gonna go. And you're right, I think it's so important that we let them just make their mistakes. They know they have a safe place to fall. I'm not gonna fix the mistake. Maybe I'm gonna help you support that mistake and learn like, what did you get from this? Because if they don't start finding the ability to fail and recover
15:29 - 16:07
Cheryl - Host: with the little things, the big things are insurmountable, they can't do it. You know, when you find this with I spent 25 years in high school, working with parents, and I you know, you find that kids get pampered and helicopter parents and everybody, you know, telling them how their life is going to go and fixing all the mistakes and then they lose their first job or they fail their first exam in university and they have no idea how to handle that. And so that makes such an impact, being able to just back off, stand behind them,
16:07 - 16:07
Cheryl - Host: right?
16:08 - 16:34
Anna - Guest: Yeah, yeah. And I think we have this duality in society when we're like, I am your parent and you need to listen to me and do what I say. But at the same time, the moment you out there in the big world, you need to be on your own and do the stuff all by yourself. But we need to prepare them for them. Yeah, parents, especially the teams to prepare them to be in a big world out there by themselves.
16:35 - 17:04
Cheryl - Host: Yes. So do you have, you know, in your in your parenting, like in your coaching conversations, do you have specific techniques or strategies where parents and teens are going through that very difficult transition where parents have said, okay, I need to switch gears and the kids kind of resisting. Are there other strategies and things to say, you know, activities, whatever to try and foster that?
17:05 - 17:52
Anna - Guest: Yeah, well, first thing I would say, and probably someone wouldn't like this, but I need to say this, that most of the times, like 99% of the times, we dislike something in behavior of others that we do not allow ourselves. And oftentimes when kids do something and we react, we need to ask ourselves why? Is it because it's really bad or is it because I like there are some triggers pulled inside of me, I wasn't allowed to do it And especially if your way of parenting is totally different from how you were raised, there's tons of
17:52 - 18:34
Anna - Guest: hidden bumps in there. So yeah, first, first I would start just there just asking yourself, why was this happening? And also, the second layer would be probably not the personal reasons but societal reasons. Because sometimes kids do something and we're like, oh, this is bad, but why is that? Well, in general society, everything think it's bad, but is it person that are bad? Like, is it really bad because we have like this society rules. They're good. They help us maintain like healthy, but sometimes they outdated, I would say, and not as fast progressing as change and
18:34 - 18:35
Anna - Guest: shift in our lives.
18:36 - 19:14
Cheryl - Host: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's really good. I mean, there's people, you know, when I hear people say, oh, back in the day, you know, my mom and dad did this and there was nothing wrong with that. And I kind of go back to, well, if you needed surgery tomorrow, do you want the surgeon from back in the day? Or do you want the surgeon that like is still working now, you know, learning all the new stuff, getting all the new technology, life changes, time changes, we need to change. And and if we don't, it's just going to be
19:14 - 19:37
Cheryl - Host: it's not a good impact on your relationship. And I love to hear parents say, I love this stage. Instead of like, if you go on all the parenting groups in Facebook, there's so many like, just get me through the teams just gone, help me get me through the teens. But there's a way to change that, so you don't have to do that.
19:39 - 20:22
Anna - Guest: And also I think that we created so like a lot of scares around the teenage that people are really like projecting their worst fears on that stage and guess what happens? It becomes a reality because what we focus our mind on is becoming a reality so we with our fears we're creating this reality where our kids don't listen, our kids misbehave and all that stuff. Just because a lot of us underdiminish the powerful power of our thoughts, power that how we project it will happen because our brain basically work on making a reality what we think
20:22 - 20:22
Anna - Guest: of.
20:23 - 20:55
Cheryl - Host: Yeah, yeah, that's so true, that's so true. So Are there ways that parents can, we talked about being, you know, letting them make mistakes, are there ways that parents can support but allow them to, you know, have their challenges? Like, how do they know? Like, are there ways they can go, oh, maybe I should back off here. Oh, maybe I should interfere here. Like, what would you tell the parent if they were concerned about that?
20:56 - 21:43
Anna - Guest: Well, I would probably tell them, first of all, trust your God, because our God will tell us when we step the line. And but for that, we need to be totally in tune to ourselves and self aware. And it's also an important process for all parents and all population in general. But yeah, trust your God and also feel there's a lot of resistance. Because sometimes we like given kind of advice, but in a way that it perceived as like strictly like go do that. And it's good to have like this communication with your team like I'm
21:43 - 22:17
Anna - Guest: giving you advice and this is my advice it's not like mandatory to do it on your own, you need to take this decision on your own and for some things it needs to be said out loud because they automatically like will feel that it's like just the way you need to do and not opportunity and also it's a good thing to help them reflect like how do you think what would happen if you do this way or this way or this way just ask those kind of questions that will help them to reflect on what possible
22:17 - 22:49
Anna - Guest: outcomes of this decision and this decision so they can really outweigh and choose the best that feels right for them and not push like if you see that they choose their own 1 do not push if you If it's not like the matter of life or death, let them choose and just be prepared to hop on and like help them stand back. But please, please, please do not say, I knew that would happen.
22:49 - 22:54
Cheryl - Host: I was waiting for that. No, I told you so. No, I told you so aloud.
22:54 - 22:57
Anna - Guest: You can say it in your brain, but not out loud.
22:57 - 23:29
Cheryl - Host: And if we're checking in as parents if we're checking in and feeling something our kids doing is triggering us, and we're checking in, it would be really effective to maybe say to the team, how does that feel? If you did this, how does that feel? And They may not even know what the hell you're talking about at first, but if you continually repeat that, how does it feel? Like, do you feel, does it give you a stomach ache? Do you feel happy? Do you feel a little bit of relief? Like really giving them little bits and
23:29 - 23:34
Cheryl - Host: pieces of skills of being aware of themselves and how things go.
23:34 - 24:07
Anna - Guest: Yeah, and I think this practice would be great even much earlier than teens, but it's never too late to start. And I think also it's important, especially with the teens, not with small kids, like up to 7, I probably would say, or 10, but with older kids, it's nice to share your thoughts when you choose something and it's not working like I decided to go this way and it's not work and I think like not to put the weight of your choice on them, but just to emphasize that while it's a life, sometimes you make the
24:07 - 24:17
Anna - Guest: decision and it turns out not as you wish, but it's okay, we can change shift and everything's fine, be alive, Nothing's happened.
24:18 - 24:23
Cheryl - Host: And nothing wrong with apologizing to your kid if whatever decision made was not right for them either.
24:23 - 24:24
Anna - Guest: Yeah, for sure.
24:25 - 25:00
Cheryl - Host: I feel like years ago, our parents, including me, I really felt like I need to have all the answers. I never said I don't know. If my kid had a question, I found out. But I never said I don't know. I had to have the answers. And I probably made some shit up too to tell you this. But yeah, very rarely did I say, I don't know. And that would have been great, because I don't have all the answers. I don't have them now. But to have them feel like they can say they don't know, or,
25:00 - 25:10
Cheryl - Host: Oh, she's she doesn't know she's not perfect. So I might screw this up. And if I do then, you know, we'll rethink it as an adult.
25:10 - 25:45
Anna - Guest: Yeah. And also it's not only I don't know. Well, for small kids, it's better not to say I don't know totally it's like for super small kids with the team you can be like with the team everything start to leverage because once they out there in the world you will be like in mostly in the same you will be all adults and our relationship will transit and shift surely we do not should they put all the weight of our life being and saying like I did everything for you now your time to pay and all that
25:45 - 26:03
Anna - Guest: stuff yeah but telling them as there is like, I need time to think about it. I need time to make some research to give you an answer. I'm not sure right now, let's go back to it later on and just to process and to reflect, yeah.
26:04 - 26:12
Cheryl - Host: Yeah, that's great, yeah. So tell us about Inner Bloom. What do you do? How do we work with you? What is it all about? What's the mission?
26:13 - 26:45
Anna - Guest: Yeah, well, my mission is a bit ambitious, I would say. My mission is to bring more joy and happiness in the everyday lives because I know that we all live on the social scripts and like we do all the right things and even with our kids we like telling them do the right things and but a lot of us found ourselves in the adulthood that we did all the right things but we do not feel happy inside. Like we have the degree, we had a good job, we had a family, but we don't feel happy. Why?
26:45 - 27:21
Anna - Guest: And it's my mission is to help people to reconnect with their inner selves and here's comes inner bloom because we have everything is in us to bloom and to be happy and it's All starts with 1 like if you're happy the people around you will read this up and then they will be a bit better and so on. So for instance, we'll have a ripple effects. And yeah, I work in 1 on 1 and I'm working now on creating my group offer. So it's coming soon. I'm excited about it.
27:21 - 27:54
Cheryl - Host: Oh, that's awesome. That's awesome. Good for you. I love I love your message. It just completely aligns with with the podcast, obviously. And, you know, if I think the big thing there is if you might think everything is perfect and then your kid does something and you feel very triggered and you need to go, oh, I think I need to take a step back and check out what's happening here. And there's nothing wrong with that. And letting your kids make the mistakes and just being there to kind of mentor them as opposed to the adult, the
27:54 - 27:58
Cheryl - Host: parent role, I think is. And it doesn't mean be friends with them.
27:59 - 27:59
Anna - Guest: No.
27:59 - 28:21
Cheryl - Host: Right? It's you're still coaching, you're still leading, but you're you're leading from hide now, like a really good leader does in a big company, you're pushing people up. Right? And I think that's, that's if we look at look at parenting like that, once they hit the teenage years, I think it changes relationships and it can be magic, it really can.
28:22 - 28:47
Anna - Guest: Yeah, and if I will take an analogy with a little seed of a tree, when it's small we need to do a lot of work like putting the soil, nurture it, put in the right sun, run temperature, but once it's big tree there's not much we can do. We need to grow, continue nurturing, creating environment, and it will bloom and give the fruits. Yeah,
28:47 - 28:52
Cheryl - Host: I love it. I love it. Good work, Anna. Good work. Thank you so much. Where can we find you?
28:53 - 28:59
Anna - Guest: It's innerwoolmer.com and Instagram Anna Bohoslavska. I will be happy to see you there.
28:59 - 29:07
Cheryl - Host: Okay, I will put everything in the show notes. Thank you again. So grateful for the work that you're doing. And thank you for joining us on Teen Minds Redefined.
29:08 - 29:14
Speaker 1: Teen Minds Redefined with Cheryl Pankhurst. New episodes out every Wednesday.
29:14 - 29:15
Anna - Guest: Thanks for stopping by. Thank you
29:15 - 29:16
Speaker 1: for stopping by.
30 min
May 22, 2024 #30 "Unleash Financial Freedom: A New Era of Empowerment" with Wave Melon
Speaker 1 Cheryl Speaker 2 Wave
00:01 - 00:59
Speaker 1: Teen Minds Redefined, you're listening to the podcast with Cheryl Pankhurst. Brace yourself for a tsunami of financial wisdom and glitter energy as Wave, the self-proclaimed financial badass crashes on the scene of teen minds redefined. Wave, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. I am so excited because you know the polar opposite for me of money and then energy is like I just it drains me so Learning about you and getting to know you and the other ways we connect your energy is amazing So you have to bring some energy into this whole financial World I guess we
00:59 - 01:05
Speaker 1: would say just that financial world So let's start with what's your mission here and why is it so important?
01:07 - 01:48
Speaker 2: Definitely. My, my mission. I like to make, let everyone know that we don't have to live in isolation or fear anymore. We are having fun with our money. We're falling in love with our money. It represents our our heart, our passion, everything we do and all our hang ups. We're over it. This is a new life, new worlds, and we're ditching the old like. You know, Victor, I'm like, oh, the money is coming for us, and we're going to just embrace what we can with what we've got, which I realize can be complicated. So we want
01:48 - 01:54
Speaker 2: to focus on fun. We want to maximize fun and see what we can get away with.
01:55 - 02:30
Speaker 1: I love it. And I'll tell you, here's my money story. Growing up, it was never talked about. We never, I would never know what my parents paid for their house or their mortgage or their car. It was just it was none of anybody's business. It was just a very, very private matter. And growing up, I never asked for money. I never asked for things. And and it was celebrated. Oh, what a good girl. She never asked for money. And I would literally go to school without lunch money because I didn't want to ask for it. My
02:30 - 02:52
Speaker 1: parents were fine. Yeah. We had no problem giving me lunch money, but there was something about this block with me. It was like, I can't ask for it. I can't ask for it. So, so I totally like your energy around This just really attracted me because how many other people are feeling like? Money just makes me feel sick to my stomach. Mm-hmm
02:53 - 03:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, this I don't know I haven't done the history of why we have decided that money is the most taboo subject on the planet at least here in America. I'm not sure, to be fair, I don't know that the other culture is in there. I'm told, like my dad's from Sweden and I'm told that there it's much more freely talked about. But here, right, we have all these deep, deep hangups. People would rather share some really other crazy things with me and their money. And there's just I get it because we have feelings are deep. I
03:26 - 03:59
Speaker 2: have felt the guilt, shame and fear. And I think it's like a new era. This is the era, the heart of our passions. We're breaking out of molds right now. We're not just going to work till we're 80 and barely make it like this. Isn't OK anymore for us. And yeah, we are paddling upstream against some really weird macro economic forces. But there are so many things we can do to re-empower ourselves and I'm so excited about it. You guys, I was just looking up some things like, what do you know, just some random articles just
03:59 - 04:04
Speaker 2: now like, What do people tell teens to do with their money? And it was such a nightmare for me.
04:05 - 04:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's go there. Let's go there. Because the schools aren't doing it. I was 25 years in high school. Schools are not doing it. It's ridiculous how we are 0, 0 education.
04:20 - 04:52
Speaker 2: I do remember in high school once they had us like play the stock market and I bought Beanie Baby stock and lost all my imaginary money and I just think that's hilarious like and so I actually on my Instagram I have a character named Bad Betty. She is a time traveler from the future and she talks about her being a baby stock. So she's my alter ego. But yeah, no, there's no education. And is that intentional? I have no idea, but it feels sometimes intentional. And so, you know, what can we do? Yeah, a lot of
04:52 - 05:24
Speaker 2: the budgeting and, you know, all the advice for teens was so adulty. Like you need a budget and you need to do this and that. And yeah, we do need a budget. And what we need to talk about in ways that like, like ditches all the restrictive conversation. Like this is not, I don't, yeah, I don't know, I got lost there you guys, but I'm just, I do know that there is 1 way to talk about it in another way, and we need to start shifting to the other way, which is that budgets maximize fun, that
05:24 - 05:47
Speaker 2: our budgets are flexible and here for us, so that we can blow money on things that we actually want, and that match our core values, versus you need a budget so you can do this and that and you know like literally not do anything you ever want and so Can I can you see the contrast there?
05:47 - 05:53
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, I can see all that harsh energy that comes with that like I can like oh
05:53 - 06:24
Speaker 2: No wonder we all feel this way some of us older. I'm a millennial. I know like my parents had a lot of hang-ups too and almost all my clients come to me and they're like, well, my, my, this is how my parents did it. And now I have all these achievements, which I'll think, thank you parents, because you know what? Of course we have issues that come with them. That's what we're supposed to be having. So it's going to contrast and growth. So that's fine. And I think I'm really excited for people to Like all of
06:24 - 06:43
Speaker 2: us to go along on this journey. We're learning so much from Like our younger generations, you know, they're talking about money on social media it's totally it's becoming super normal for them yep and so I love that like we're having like people are talking about money more and more it's great
06:44 - 07:14
Speaker 1: it really is and I think like how how do you feel about things when we're talking about things at home, like allowances or paying our kids for chores or, you know, or just, or, or education or so When my kids were growing up, my kids are both millennials. I think my son's on the edge of Gen Z. I don't know. But when they were growing up, if they really wanted something, they had to come up
07:14 - 07:14
Speaker 2: with half.
07:14 - 07:43
Speaker 1: Didn't matter what it was dirt bike, drums, they had to come up with half and then we would come up with half because I feel like if you have not invested in something then you're not invested in something but I wonder too like people have very different you know thoughts around well I had kids so I should pay for my kids, or my kids should earn everything, or here's your allowance for doing chores in the house that you live in.
07:44 - 08:19
Speaker 2: So how do you feel about that financial exchange with kids and parents? Yeah, good question. Like kind of some of those decisions are so internal and I just want to respect them. At the same time, right, everything, okay, I am only a cat parrot, you guys, so please forgive me. But I do know I'm 1 of 5 kids and it's like, it wasn't what they taught me, it was what they were doing, right? So I watched my dad and I watched my mom. And I think there is this component where I'm, I think building skills and
08:19 - 08:57
Speaker 2: education, like within your family, it's so healthy, however you choose to do it. And, and just that gentle reminder that like parents should also or anybody should be going through that kind of revolution inside their hearts around how they're managing their money, how are they taking care of themselves. And I actually come from the my I come from a worldview or a community called the financial independence community. And technically, it's the second part is retire early. It's called financial independence retire early. It's the fire community. Yeah. And what it it says, you know, if you start
08:57 - 09:35
Speaker 2: investing $100 at 18, you will have like, wait, millions of dollars if you were to work till 67, you can actually retire at 42. Now, does anyone actually retire at 42? No, we then have access and freedom and ability and choice to live our purpose. So what I tend to like recommend is people just really start early and it doesn't have to be investment in the market. It could be investment in a small business. It could be investment in a real estate opportunity. But the sooner you start, the compounding interest is gold. And what I wish
09:35 - 10:08
Speaker 2: someone had told me was that sooner Because I didn't realize it until I was 32 No, I could I could literally start pouring I think it's like a thousand dollars a month from 32 on. And this 18 year old who started with 100 and stopped at 32 will still have more than me. Wow. Right. And so starting now I'm getting, and you know, I have a lot of, families that I helped there. They've actually got Roth IRAs for their children. You know, there's just this this education book piece, and I just want people to know that
10:08 - 10:44
Speaker 2: the I don't know. OK, I don't know if the word is correct. The zeitgeist is not necessarily like working at the same company forever for a pension. That right, we know that that's not true anymore. My grandparents, you know, we don't have pensions anymore. We don't have corporate loyalty. So we really have to start considering how we can support ourselves and our communities. So this isn't like a bootstrap situation where everyone's just gonna stay quiet in their homes and bootstrap their way up. This is like social media, we're talking. We wanna raise each other up together.
10:46 - 11:06
Speaker 2: We wanna be like isolation sucks, togetherness rocks. Right, and so from that, just from that fire community perspective, I'm hoping to bring like illumination to how you can kind of start early and not suffer later, if that makes sense.
11:06 - 11:33
Speaker 1: It does make sense. And even when you talked about budgeting being more for, so that you can have fun, not so that you have to sit in a hole until it's time to cash in. Yeah, like talk, talk about the budget piece, like, especially when we're talking about, like filling that gap that the schools aren't doing. If you're at home talking to your kids about the financial piece, like what are we budgeting piece? What are we what are we saying that they're going to hear?
11:34 - 12:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I mean my budget, you guys, I have, I just have some really funny line items that make me giggle. Like, I have my video game line item, right? Very important. And, like I have these all towards the top of my budget. Most of us have digital budgets now, right? I'm a certified coach for YNAB, which is you need a budget.com. That's a very, it's kind of the gold standard of budgets online. I teach teens and young adults how to use it all the time. They're so quick and then they've got their budget and we're
12:11 - 12:43
Speaker 2: putting all the emojis and all the unicorns and all the glitter at the top and all the fun things that you are ready to blow money on. Right. And I think there's a lot of value judgment. And it's like, well, you shouldn't be spending money on like this or that. I really believe you should spend money on whatever you want, as long as you have your needs covered and you are paying your future self now. So let's say I make sure that everyone's, let's say you're 18, you're putting a hundred dollars in automatic withdrawal into some
12:43 - 13:17
Speaker 2: kind of account that's going to grow. As long as that's taken care of and your needs are met, go for it. Pick your passions. I don't care if it's purses or travel or whatever people think is junk. Yeah. So we really do want to have conversations though around core values, right? Like when I spend when I buy books on Amazon, that's 1 thing. But when I go down to my local bookstore and I spend like an hour and I pick that 1 book. This is a feeling that carries me for weeks. I'm like this is my
13:17 - 13:55
Speaker 2: core value. I love my community. I love spending time there. I felt community connection. I've got core values of love. So it just really fills my cup to buy that book. And I think we have a consumer mindset in our country that's just like, let's just buy random crap from Tmoo and like weird Chinese markets steal our data. And like, again, I'm not really judging. It's just that like, our money is precious. And it represents who we are and how we decide that our blood, sweat and tears every day gets funneled. And so I want us
13:55 - 14:28
Speaker 2: to have these conversations. Where am I going to place my money? Why do I love my money? It's so valuable to me. And when I am going to blow it, is it exactly where I want to blow it? So, yeah, when you when your budget, you know. Everyone's different. My sister is very different from me. Her clothing budget is very high. My clothing budget is like 15 a month, almost 0. But I'm like, really, I like I hard slash things that do not matter to me. Now, some people like balance, but I think I think the
14:28 - 14:40
Speaker 2: younger generations are much More excited to really funnel money to what they love and a little less balance and a little more extremes I don't need this. I don't need that but I do need this
14:41 - 15:15
Speaker 1: And as you're talking about spending I'm feeling like, you know in the bookstore for me it's going to the local roaster instead of like the drive thru coffee place. Yeah, yeah. And and having my coffee in there and people watching and what you know, watching the pour overs and it's an experience. It's a year. Yeah. To me, that's like, like for me, I'm separating that it's like, oh, that's an experience for me. But actually, okay, I'm spending my money there. So that's a really good energy. It's like that turns my money into energy, good energy, as
15:15 - 15:22
Speaker 1: opposed to, you know, oh, yeah, that's, it kind of changes the perspective.
15:23 - 15:58
Speaker 2: It does. Yeah, there's a famous author, her name is Vicki Robbins, and she just talks about like, it's your life force. We don't know why in this 3d planet that all of who we are is like drilled down to this dollar bill thing. But really it does represent our life force, our time, our health, and our small blip on this planet. And if we take it to that extreme, we start seeing our money as like, a little more valuable than we saw it before.
15:58 - 16:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Absolutely. And I feel like, as we're, as we're, you know, as we're spending, and like you said, the independent book, like it's a it's a ripple effect out. As right instead of just this coin and bills, like it's it is, it is. Yeah, I just think a positive energy and what am I, I'm trying to describe what I'm trying to say and that is money. You know, there was this this thing about money like you money is evil and money makes you this and money makes you that. But you look around and you see
16:37 - 16:55
Speaker 1: hospitals that are paid for by someone who had a lot of money. And all these organizations, like I think if you look that way you see what money can actually do Yeah, yeah, I Love this. It's
16:57 - 17:33
Speaker 2: That belief that you just said that money is evil, right We have all these beliefs and I think we should do some work to unravel them. And I have this, I have this like new thing where I think, okay, if you are struggling financially alone in your home and you haven't told anyone because you're in isolation and you fear guilt and shame because yeah you haven't been spending according to your core values now waves freaking me out. I really think you should invite your best friend over or have an entire bring a bunch of them over
17:33 - 18:07
Speaker 2: there's champagne and you have a white board and you present like look this is how I'm struggling this is where I need help I need support like this is the new thing or with my best friend I remember we came over to each other's houses and we reviewed each other's bank statements because we were like, what is going on? And this is how like, this is how we uncover and bring light and love to our suffering at home alone. This whole bootstrap situation is kind of, I understand the ideal. It does feel good to boots, like
18:07 - 18:40
Speaker 2: I did this myself, but I just don't think that that's working for us anymore. So if you are having that panic isolation, Some people are arguing with their partners about it. It's the number 1 predictor of divorce. You know, it's this huge thing. It's like, it's time to tell someone and get help. And if you like, I would, I have a lot of clients of kids and like they're approaching their children like, look, we've actually got some debt or going to be pulling in the reins, but we're going to be doing some fun stuff. We had
18:40 - 19:13
Speaker 2: this new idea with, instead of going out to a really fancy dinner with the extended family, we decided we were going to do a frozen pizza contest at the house. And right. And that's just it's going to save money. It's going to help our goals, but it's even more fun. It actually hits our core values more of like fun, excitement versus going out. Right. So there's just a lot to think about in terms of like why are we trying to do this alone and struggling and how do we get creative and come together?
19:15 - 19:57
Speaker 1: Yeah and you know this day my kids are 31 and 34 So with the way the economy is right now, like there's, there's no way they're buying a house. There's no way there's you know, when I got out of high school, I got out of high school, got my first job by house. Like 1986, I bought a house for $85,000. And then I flipped it. Like, it was like, so accessible. But cost of living and wages, right? Like, they just don't line up anymore. So can we, my daughter lives in like downtown Toronto, where it's very,
19:57 - 20:38
Speaker 1: very expensive. And of course they rent. And I'm trying to, I think we've had this conversation where, you know, they, renting is terrible for whatever you could rent, you could pay a mortgage for. But what's more important, and you tell me with with budget and finances is loving absolutely loving where you live. But renting or you move out to Bumpak, Iowa. And you know, you have a third of the price of the mortgage but you're in a space that doesn't resonate but it's better to pay a mortgage and pay rent.
20:38 - 21:17
Speaker 2: What do you think about that? Sure so the science actually supports renting But I am a home person right? I want a home, right? So the science is actually more in favor of renting now. I'm sure some people might argue with me on that but I Would as a non renter I feel confident in saying that 1 of the most famous financial people right now is Ramit Sethi. He has a Netflix show right now. He is a million dollars and he still rents and he will fight you. You know, he's cool. He is comes from a
21:17 - 21:55
Speaker 2: similar lineage of me in terms of like the fire community and feeling like this is a purpose-driven life and If you feel super strong about Toronto amazing Renting is great Renting is fine. You can actually save money by not buying that house. As far as moving, now I did move to a media. I went from a high cost of living area. I'm from the Bay Area in San Francisco. I moved to Eugene, Oregon, which is medium cost. There's a thing called geo arbitrage, which we talk about in the community, which is where you try to hack
21:55 - 22:35
Speaker 2: the system. Like maybe you can work in Google, but you can work remote in Mexico, right? Yeah. And so we're all getting really creative because I like I said before the macroeconomics and honestly if you're indigenous or a BIPOC you have other forces working against you besides Just the regular forces that someone who's a white queer person is identifying, right? So we have so many things working against us that we're all starting to try to hack the system because I, you know, I don't know all the answers about some of that So geo arbitrage is trying
22:35 - 23:06
Speaker 2: to figure out ways to kind of make it work Yeah, do you live with your are you a millennial living with your parents to save money? Brilliant Right, but we're all trying to get creative because we are a bit stuck. It is hard. Like, yeah, I think my, my father-in-law, but you know, yeah, they bought their house for so cheap back then. And, and it's hard for that generation to see that they were getting all these rates that were so different from what we can do. So, you know, I won't, I don't want to sugar coat
23:06 - 23:43
Speaker 2: it and tell everyone like, it's fine, just have fun. Like, shit's real out here, right? And we have this 1 precious life and how are we going to make it work and how can we advocate as well. I'm always down to talk about that financial policy but not for today. But yeah, you know, if someone were to come to me and tell me, hey, I really want to buy a house. I really want it to be in Toronto, right? We might have some creative conversations around that. At the same time, sometimes moving to this, this idea
23:43 - 23:56
Speaker 2: of the unknown is a major curiosity to me, Cheryl, because it's like, what happens when we do move somewhere and it's it's nothing and it's not who what we thought it would be. But there could be really cool people there.
23:56 - 23:57
Speaker 1: And we're
23:57 - 24:09
Speaker 2: always now. And if it's like if your passion is to have some animals and like some goats and like live that life. But it's like for me as a queer person, right? I would need to really consider where I'm going.
24:09 - 24:10
Speaker 1: Yeah.
24:10 - 24:31
Speaker 2: But also that there is the unknown. Like, I think we're all we get a little stuck and be like, I'm going to buy this 1 house and live here forever. And it's like, go to Iowa, like buy some property, see what happens. If you love it, great. If you hate it, even better. Like this is life. Let's be adventurous. Just kind of shaking that up a little.
24:31 - 24:36
Speaker 1: I've moved 15 times. There you go. See? I'm
24:36 - 24:37
Speaker 2: a transient.
24:39 - 25:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, I totally have moved it and from 1 spectrum to the other small town like just so yeah, shake it up a little is great. And I have no problem with that. No problem with that. And my parents moved into their $20,000 home in 1962 and my mom is still there. Yeah. And then their daughter. Everywhere, right? Everywhere, everywhere.
25:03 - 25:27
Speaker 2: People like all live in our passion And in that scenario that you asked, I wouldn't say that there was 2 options. I would say that there's a million options. Another thing we talk about is a lot of, you know, there's a version of you can buy a fourplex and live in 1 and rent out the others. There is buying a duplex, renting out the other side. There's a lot of variety to how we can approach all these, approach this.
25:27 - 25:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. It sounds like, you know, when you hear financial wizard financial coach, you think, Oh, we're going to sit down and we're going to line up my budget. But, but just talking to you, I feel like there's so much mindset and consciousness behind your coaching. Can you talk about that?
25:46 - 26:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do something called value driven finances and I know I've been speaking about core values, but what are they? And so that's something I run through with people. We credit collect some core values of ours. And I don't you know, this is like a North star. This isn't like every decision needs to be according to like my core value. But my core values are like love, laughter, connection, authenticity. And so it's best, I'm happiest and most fulfilled and I feel less existential angst when I kind of live according to these principles, right? Because some of
26:21 - 26:45
Speaker 2: the other sides of these are loneliness, fear, self-hate, you know, the dark side. Like, you know, I want to be my master Jedi, like be in my, with things that fill my existential cup and you know, there's always going to be things that, you know, what am I doing here? There's always
26:45 - 26:46
Speaker 1: this question.
26:46 - 27:22
Speaker 2: Yeah. So for me, I help people. Yeah. Let's unravel some financial beliefs, especially if it's between partners. That's a big 1 to discover who we are as individuals, as a family, and then kind of start making decisions based on that. And yeah, we do budgets and we also get creative. Like, where is it that we want to go? What are our dreams? And how can we get there? And you know, a lot of us, myself included, it's scary to dream big because we do live in this really chaotic planet right now. Like it seems unstable. And
27:22 - 27:41
Speaker 2: I just want to recognize and honor that. And also we want to do it in a really supportive way. So it's sustainable and that you'll like, you know, you've got cash and money that's going to support you if anything happens. That's a big 1. Getting slammed by like a medical bill, right?
27:41 - 27:42
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah.
27:43 - 27:46
Speaker 2: It's a safety thing for me too. Yeah.
27:46 - 27:54
Speaker 1: So you're taking your aligning the value, you're stepping there first aligning the values and then bringing the money into it. Is that my hearing?
27:55 - 28:28
Speaker 2: Ideally, that's how I would do it because we're not robots. We're human. And if we were robots, we would just, the money would make sense. But I would say most people we jump in on finances first and then we realize that we have to go straight to Figuring out what what's the humanity behind it? So, you know what I do is I create a strategic map with everybody and it's completely different and it's rainbow colors and it's beautiful. But this strategic map, you know, this is no longer paycheck to paycheck. This is not like living like
28:28 - 29:02
Speaker 2: by the seat of whatever your shorts or whatever that fricking this is like an action plan where everything is going to make sense because we're going to center our finances in our lives once and for all and a small investment in something like This is like the forever kind of life. So again, this can be done. It doesn't have to be me. It can be another financial coach. It can be your best friend and starting to read books and watching Ramit Sethi's show on Netflix and reading Vicki Robbins. But I think the key is that we,
29:03 - 29:40
Speaker 2: again, it's not, we're leaving isolation, the guilt, the fear and the shame. I have so much, I had so much shame about money. I had spent debt that I'd gone into, you know, I went into $30,000 of consumer debt. I couldn't tell you where that went. I have an idea. But it's all gone, right? And so when I had to climb out of that, you know, just, it's just, it's hard to deal with sometimes. And that's okay. Yeah. So there's just, like I said, there's a lot of tricks and tips to it, right? There's travel hacking,
29:40 - 30:17
Speaker 2: there's geo-arbitrage, like I talked about. There's, yeah, all the real estate ideas. There's just ideas around doing your budget in a way that's actually fulfilling. I've seen people people's budgets that they've shown me and it's just like where was the fun? When are we funding what we love? And I realized some of us are living on very tight budgets. So we've got to get creative there too, to figure out how, like, how we can move forward. That's a stuck place that no 1 deserves to be in. And I think a lot of people feel like there
30:17 - 30:24
Speaker 2: is no hope. And I just want to provide that hope. I've seen it. We can do it. There's hope.
30:24 - 30:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the isolation piece, I think, is huge. Because of the shame, then you don't talk about it. And then you don't realize almost any issue, not just financial. But when you open up to somebody and they're like, Oh my god, me too. Yeah, I'm 2 steps ahead. So this is what I did. And this is what they and then it becomes, oh my god, seriously? Why didn't I do this before? Like it's just such connection and community is key for sure. I even talking about it. Parents starting to talk about it at home, like now,
30:57 - 31:10
Speaker 1: talk about now, talk about the deck you got into, talk about your credit card issue. But if you're honest, then the kids can go, oh, they're watching you. Always watching you.
31:10 - 31:10
Speaker 2: Yeah.
31:11 - 31:12
Speaker 1: I think that's super important.
31:13 - 31:51
Speaker 2: Being open and honest just feels good to me. You know, I guess I wish that my parents. Yeah, like that there had been some semblance of like, look at all the stuff with us, right? And like, we made some mistakes, but we'd like you to like, check those out and maybe make a different decision. And oh yeah, I just, starting early is so crucial. And most people that I work with, they don't even want to look, it is completely, it's The level of panic is so extreme and I get it. That's how I got into debt.
31:51 - 32:35
Speaker 2: I was like, whatever. It doesn't even matter. Looking at even an APR percentage on a credit card, it can be really challenging. But once you look, it's worse when you aren't looking. It grows and grows and grows. Then we look and people go, well, yeah, all right, now what? So looking is such a big piece of it. That's actually usually the first step I ask people to go through is an audit. Like, let's just look at what happened last month in detail. Like, where did your money go? And that is a revealing process. There's sometimes tears
32:35 - 32:41
Speaker 2: or anger. But once we're over that hump, it's like, all right, let's move forward now. What? Yeah.
32:42 - 32:56
Speaker 1: Yeah. So first step would be look at the budget. What would be a couple of steps they would, let's say at home, parents are like, okay, we're going to sit down. What are the 3 things you would say a parent should start with in these conversations?
32:57 - 33:11
Speaker 2: Sure. Yeah. You know, I think there's resources out there. And again, it's like a language. I think like if I were to, it's a language thing. It's like, we're going to sit down. I'm already stopping us. They're like, I don't want to sit down.
33:12 - 33:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was bad. Sorry.
33:14 - 33:45
Speaker 2: No, you don't have to apologize. I'm, I'm, I'm sensitive to, I'm reactionary because I am a wild and free spirit. You know, I want to run around in the desert, my underwear. And the last thing I want to do, you know, is have a budget. But so, yeah, it is this conversation like, hey, let's sit down and do some dream casting. What are the dreams that you have? What are some visions that you've been thinking? Have you ever thought about like, right? What is like? Yeah, maybe it's like trade school versus this major. And like, How
33:45 - 34:20
Speaker 2: are we going to do that? Or have you ever started to think about putting some of your money into an account that'll grow with compound interest? Have you ever seen this online calculator? Did you know $5 can turn into $100 if you let it sit? There's resources, but there's such great books out there and there's Instagram accounts. There's 1 called personal finance club That's the 1 I recommend to everyone in your feed So yeah, I think that dream that vision that's what really inspires us No 1 needs a budget to take care of their boring stuff.
34:20 - 34:21
Speaker 2: You know, we want to fun
34:22 - 34:25
Speaker 1: You want to dream casting? I love that.
34:26 - 34:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think it's also like teaching. How do we dream big? I think as adults we start getting limited and risk averse but our kids aren't and they that's the perfect time to go nuts and yeah what if I started this gluten-free cookie business like cool I don't know I'm gonna start mentoring kids like those are small businesses or you know, whatever like really encouraging free free dreams.
34:54 - 35:08
Speaker 1: I love it. That's awesome. That's so awesome. Is there anything that I didn't ask you that you wanted to say last words I don't want to miss out on your wonderful wisdom but is there anything you want to add?
35:11 - 35:14
Speaker 2: Wow I feel like I've totally told you guys everything I know.
35:16 - 35:20
Speaker 1: That's cool. How about you tell us where we can find you? How we can work
35:20 - 35:51
Speaker 2: with you? Definitely. So my Instagram is financial coaching with wave and that's where you'll find my alter ego bad Betty. Cannot miss her. And through there, you know, a lot of times people may not be ready to work with me, but they want to have a chat So that's a good place to do it. My website is coaching with wave calm I do work with young people. I do work with families. I do work with couples And it's absolutely my passion. I have some free resources and mostly though I'm down to have that free coffee chat
35:51 - 36:03
Speaker 2: I feel like I can at least point you to the right direction verbally, which is a little easier than I don't know reading this book or that, you know, so Yeah, so financial coaching with wave or coaching with wave.com.
36:04 - 36:18
Speaker 1: That's great. And the fact that you're offering a chat is fantastic because sometimes like just don't wait, don't sit there in your squalor and your isolation and then your panic, just make a call. Yeah. And, And that's the next step.
36:18 - 36:31
Speaker 2: And I think that sounds like a really important step. Definitely. And it's just tea and coffee. I'm an authentic marketer. I am not trying to oversell you there. It's just easier for me to check in with you and point you to where you need to go.
36:32 - 36:42
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, in this way, we find out, right? When you meet, who's your person and who's not your person. Sometimes it just doesn't feel good. Yeah. Sometimes the vibe is fantastic. So.
36:42 - 37:01
Speaker 2: I am not everyone's cup of tea, but you'll notice that I'm not Chad. I am wearing a button up today. But right, my passion is people who may be a little freaky or outside the box, or just want to think differently this way. Right. So I love it. I love it. Somebody there's somebody for everyone. And yeah.
37:02 - 37:32
Speaker 1: Ah, Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate the work you do is fantastic. Your energy is fantastic. You have to go on on waves website is just glitter and gold and just such I just love the shift. That's what we're trying to create with this podcast, just the shift in thinking and being able to just kind of be ourselves and figure out the like the great energy and the resonance that's going to bring all the good to us instead of resisting it with all this bad energy. And I love it. So thank you so much.
37:32 - 37:52
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Teen Minds Redefined. Thank you, Wave. Check out Wave and all the resources will be in the show notes. And yeah, thanks for stopping by. Teen Minds Redefined with Cheryl Pankhurst. New episodes out every Wednesday. Thanks for stopping by.
38:00 - 38:01
Speaker 2: You
39 min
May 15, 2024 #29 "Transform Your Life: 5 Habits for a Healthier, Happier You & Setting the Example for your Teens" with Christiane Schroeter
00:01 - 00:51
Cheryl: Teen Minds Redefined, you're listening to the podcast with Cheryl Pankhurst. Are you curious to find happiness and fulfillment all at the same time? Are you feeling like maybe you're stuck in the safety of home when you have teenagers at home? Well, that's not necessary. And at Teen Minds Redefined today, we have a beautiful guest, Christiane Schroeder, who is the founder of Healthy Happy Nest. And it is a platform dedicated to guiding moms at life's crossroads. And I wanna welcome Christiane, This is a really great topic. I've been hearing about it from moms. And as you get
00:51 - 01:22
Cheryl: into these different communities and networking, there's a lot of moms who are stuck. They're stuck at home. They've got teenagers, they've got these jobs. They've got dads just more or their partners just telling them how things are going to go and they're feeling like, ah, this does not feel like me anymore. So welcome. I think this is your forte. Tell us first of all, why? What's your mission? What's your mode of life here?
01:22 - 02:00
Christiane: Well, thank you so much Cheryl for having me here. I'm really excited to share some of my tips. First of all, I am a mom and I have 2 teenage daughters. So that immediately rings a bell. All what you talked about is also familiar. And then I work full time as a professor, I teach innovation entrepreneurship, I teach marketing. So I definitely have my platter with my full time job. My side gig is I am a business and wellness coach. So the innovation entrepreneurship and my health practices also extends into a private coaching, I have a
02:00 - 02:12
Christiane: mastermind, and that business, Hello Happiness, has been helping hundreds of women all over the globe. So I'm so excited to share today what has helped these amazing women and how we can get unstuck.
02:13 - 02:52
Cheryl: I love it. I love it. And it just right away brought me back to, I was a hairdresser and then I owned a restaurant. And then I taught adults for a while, which did not require a whole lot of credentials, but then loved it. So when my kids were 6 and 4, I went back to university and figured something else out. So it's never too late and I've now just left my 28 year teaching career to do this. So it's never too late, get unstuck, but let's talk about, like, what does that mean to be stuck?
02:52 - 02:55
Cheryl: What does it mean, in your opinion, to be stuck?
02:57 - 03:33
Christiane: Stuck really is this kind of like nearly inability to move. You're looking at a mountain that's right ahead of you and you're feeling completely unable to even like do anything. It could be that you have tons of posted notes cluttered on your desk. It could be that you look at your calendar and it seems like things are just stacking back to back. And because there's just so much going on, sometimes we just sit down and we're like, I don't even know where to start, right? Or think about your house. You might have piles of laundry, dishes,
03:34 - 03:54
Christiane: you might have, you know, messy rooms, papers builds piled up. So it's basically this pile. And there's this pile and it's just us, or you feel like completely overwhelmed, and we don't even know where to start. So wherever you turn, there's just crap piled up, so to speak, right?
03:54 - 04:33
Cheryl: And what gets us there? Like, at what point do we go, oh, like, are there little like, things that we start to notice, but ignore, or, you know, and I kind of liken it to, and it's not the same. But when people get to, you know, like a, like a hoarder situation, or, you know, a situation with their body where they're not comfortable with their health or their size. And I always wonder where's the trigger where you can't go back, you can't, you just stay there. Can you speak to that?
04:34 - 05:11
Christiane: Oh, yes, for sure. And it's actually amazing that you bring this up to where you're comparing it to wellness, because I am also a fitness instructor and I'm a wellness coach. And I get this question all the time. How can I lose 20 pounds by May? So within like 4 weeks because I'm on a cruise or I have a 20 year high school reunion and I just need to lose that weight quick. And that's really the point where there is a deadline that high school reunion or the cruise or whatever it is, and all of a
05:11 - 05:48
Christiane: sudden, we just need to get this thing off, right? And then is exactly what what's what my biggest question always is, well, how did we even get here? Because it didn't just happen overnight. We would like to get rid of it overnight, but it didn't happen overnight. It was kind of this accumulation of small things. And eventually that complacency that, well, I'm going to start it tomorrow, the procrastination led to where we are now, which is we're just not happy with our weight. And we just want to show up at that reunion looking like, it never
05:48 - 06:23
Christiane: happened. And sometimes I tell my children, when we have laundry out there, when we have friends coming over, we just take the laundry baskets and we put it down of our bedroom. And then they're gone, right? And the friends come and it looks all good. You know, but then I opened the door to my bedroom and the laundry. So it's like, yeah, you can't really undo it. We do need to fold it eventually. And just pushing laundry baskets from 1 room to the next room is really not going to get rid of this issue. Or finding
06:24 - 06:56
Christiane: fresh laundry every morning and dumping out the laundry baskets on the bed and just finding underwear and socks. It's really not going to get rid of it. So how about we just create a system that after we do laundry, we just immediately get rid of 1 basket instead of waiting for 5 baskets to pile up. And then it's like this again, mountain of laundry. Why don't we just immediately, as soon as the laundry come out, we'll just each grab arm and we just sit down for 5 minutes. Actually, it's really not much longer than that. Put
06:56 - 07:04
Christiane: it away. And then it doesn't even get to the point of like absolute mess to when the friends come over we were like oh my gosh the house looks so messy right
07:05 - 07:39
Cheryl: yeah perfect analogy and you can use it in anything you can we can use that in our debt we can use that in our bodies so I'm wondering here how do we get here in the sense that I'm a mom, and all of a sudden, all of a sudden, I'm like, I don't want to be a teacher anymore. I don't I don't this is no, but but I have these kids depending on me and I have a husband depending on me and I have this path, like I'm just supposed to follow the path. So how do
07:39 - 07:40
Cheryl: we get there?
07:40 - 08:15
Christiane: How do we get to that point? Yeah, so when you started talking at the beginning of the podcast And you kind of like started weaving in a little bit my specialty. So my specialty really is I help moms that are at the crossroad. 1 path is a safe path. It could be your teaching career. You've been doing it and you're good at it. And it's just this everyday grind, the 9 to 5 job, you come home, it brings home the money and it's all good. It's safe. It might not be your absolute favorite thing to do,
08:15 - 08:50
Christiane: but it's safe and you know how to do it, right? And the other path from your crossroad is the 1 where, you know, that there is something else out there for you. Is that path going to be safe? No, because you just don't know exactly. You look down that road, but you can't really see it very well because you've never taken it because you never really went for your dreams. So you have those dreams, you have those goals and you know that you really, really want to go for them, but you have also that fear deep
08:50 - 09:24
Christiane: down where you are scared because you know that there might be challenges, there might be failures, it's not just going to be you walk down there and boom, you reach your dream. So I help women to make that decision to go for their dreams, even though it might not be the safe choice, even though it might be the bold decision to do this. And then really not waiting until I mean, I frequently get this, Oh, when I retire, I'm going to do this. Oh, when the kids out of the house to do this. Don't make somebody
09:24 - 09:47
Christiane: else's deadline your deadline. You're living on your own schedule. You're going to weed that deadline in and you're going to start walking down that road and we're going to get through this together. So that's really the goal that we are not just like sitting down and we're like well I'm just going to go the safe route. We're going to start going down that route and we're going to go for your dreams.
09:49 - 10:28
Cheryl: That's so good, because it's so me. Only I kind of did go with somebody else's timeline. It took me a lot of little whispers. And then, you know, most people plan leading their career and you know, I'm going to have this safety net and I'm going to have the and last year, like, April, I just said, I'm done. The whisper became this big clunk in my head. And that was something I could not stop thinking about. And then all of a sudden, every Facebook post, every Instagram post, it's in my face. Like it's here, it's here,
10:28 - 10:41
Cheryl: it's here, it's here. So talk about that. Like talk about, you know what I mean? Like feeling like, oh, I know it's there, but there's so many things in my way.
10:43 - 11:19
Christiane: So frequently, especially as females, the first thing is we actually kind of afraid to even talk about it because I don't want to say it feels frivolous, but it doesn't really feel like we should be doing this. I mean, we have a job, so people look at us and actually get a life altogether. Why is she thinking about even like changing? It seems good from the outside, right? But even though deep inside we are like, no, I have this fire and it's burning and I know, I know I meant to do something else. Yeah. And all
11:19 - 11:51
Christiane: of a sudden, when you start thinking about it, you see the signs everywhere. It's nearly like when you want to buy a new car and all of a sudden you're on the road and you see your car, the 1 that you want to buy everywhere. It's like, it's like, it's, I see it, I see it. And I like it so much. Right? What's kind of like how it is because you're becoming more conscious about the fact that in reality, you're actually not happy on your safe path. And that on that dream path, you're basically going to
11:51 - 12:25
Christiane: feel like this is me. I'm tapping into my superpower and I'm finally feeling I'm becoming the person that I'm meant to be. And it's really the fulfillment that I've been waiting for at the crossroads right there So then sometimes like this fear of failure will crush more dreams than failure ever will Because we are so afraid to even start going down the path, that we tend to procrastinate and postpone it. And that's really not ever going to get us there. Right?
12:26 - 12:51
Cheryl: Yeah. And also, I think, for me was, I was comparing myself to, I'm thinking about doing this to someone who's making a hundred million dollars doing it and is all over the place and very successful. And I just, it's like this big black tunnel that I can't see step, step, step, step to get there. So then I'll never be able to do that.
12:52 - 13:39
Christiane: Yeah, it's the complete imposter syndrome. And what it starts with, of course, is social media. You mentioned that you saw these signs everywhere on Facebook now. So unfortunately, we tend to only see then those success stories on Facebook. And I always embrace people that really share their struggles. We're basically saying, yeah, I just spend whatever $5,000 in programs. And you know what, they go to the graveyard of programs that I purchased that I actually never hope and we've all done this. There's the graveyard, just another program. It looked good. But then it actually didn't really do
13:39 - 14:21
Christiane: anything. And so people just don't talk about that. And that's unfortunate because the struggles are more inspiring than the success stories. It's so great to look at these people and they're sitting somewhere and they're at the pool, it's infinity pool, there's a pink drink And you're like, oh yeah, I want that but do we actually want that because I started to think I don't even know that I want that it's absolutely not me. I want something where Life is a little bit messier And it is a little bit more quirky and fun because I am not
14:21 - 14:47
Christiane: that person that sits at the pool. I just don't. I don't think that I would feel comfortable. So I started to feel comfortable with being uncomfortable and all of a sudden I started to realize that's me. I actually like those kind of uncomfortable situations because I'm constantly feeling my mind is growing and I'm in this growth mindset instead of in the fixed mindset where I used to be before. Right.
14:48 - 15:20
Cheryl: Yeah. And you're bringing so much of this like tapping into your self awareness. How does this feel? Because and what I did notice when I got out of teaching, and and just kind of went, I was like, I have spent 25 years in a system. So I was plug and play. I walked into school, I taught the kids, I worked 1 on 1, I talked with parents, but it was it was all laid out for me. And then I didn't realize and thank God I didn't realize because I probably wouldn't have done this. I'm sitting in
15:20 - 15:53
Cheryl: front of my computer going, what the hell is an email list? What's a lead magnet? I don't know how to, I have like nothing. Business plan, I still don't have that lined out. But, but if I had have really thought about that, I never would have done it. But then when you what I find for me is when I find 1 thing that I know I can do really well, or that I really love to do if I'm in the middle of a mess that I can't figure out like creating my own website, dumb. I love
15:53 - 16:26
Cheryl: to do the podcast. Like this is my jam, just to meet people and get information and be able to share it. This I love. So I will go back to this and then I get a little more courage to go, okay, I'll spend 10 minutes over here now because my confidence has kind of gone up a little bit. Do you know what I mean? But I feel like when people are in like corporate jobs, they are in a system and they don't see the other side because what is the other side? It's a big mountain and
16:26 - 16:29
Cheryl: yeah can you can you talk to that about?
16:31 - 17:05
Christiane: Yeah so the beautiful thing about a solopreneur is that you are in charge of what you want to do on that day. And there isn't like a schedule or itinerary or classes that you have to do on this day, office hours you have to hold. That's also the bad thing, right? So now you have this whole day and you have the calendar staring at you and you have these to-do lists and oh you could always create an Instagram post or you could write a blog post and how about cleaning up that email list and it just
17:05 - 17:37
Christiane: seems so daunting because it's just you and there are so many ways you can turn and get your amazing superpower out there. So what you mentioned Cheryl is exactly what I would recommend. Start with what you know best. That doesn't mean you procrastinate the other things. It more means that it builds that confidence to keep going. So in my practice, actually call it petite practice. We're starting with something small that's manageable, and that builds momentum then to go to the next 1 and to go to the next 1. So nearly you're traveling
17:40 - 17:40
Cheryl: somewhere in Europe,
17:43 - 18:18
Christiane: and the flights are pretty short, right? It's just 2 hours in a different country instead of like going like to Australia, which from the United States is a long flight. So do a long flight. Think European twist, right? Think short flight. Oh, I'm going to fly to France here and boom, there I am. And I took this first step and now I'm feeling good because I'm in a different country. I'm doing podcasting now. And then maybe after that, take another short flight going to England. Maybe the podcast turns into a YouTube video. Right. So now, whoa,
18:19 - 18:40
Christiane: we are maybe like drenching out a little bit and going to Italy, right. So that's kind of like nearly how you need to think about it. You need to lay out your itinerary or your flight schedule based on more manageable tasks, instead of thinking like you got to do it all at once. Yeah, what is really the secret right there? Yeah, that's
18:40 - 19:21
Cheryl: 100% my problem when it comes to scheduling. I just write in my agenda, everything that has to be done that day and I find that so many of my tasks are repeated day day day day day day so they just get pushed over and pushed over and pushed over but yeah it's funny because the whole scared to fail thing was really prevalent for me. And then I started to realize after all the courses that are in the graveyard, that we really have access to way more information than we could possibly use. And if we narrow it
19:21 - 19:52
Cheryl: down, like for me, I couldn't figure out for the life of me on this podcast, how to do a clip. Couldn't figure it out for the life of me. And my editor's like, okay, I'll do it for you. And then I thought, I gotta learn how to do this. Like, this is something, you know, you just pick something, right. And it took me forever. And it took me 17 YouTube videos, search this search this search this, but when I did it, felt like I won the lottery. So if you so I started kind of shifting my
19:52 - 20:30
Cheryl: mind around. Failing just means not even It's not even failing. It's like looking at something going, okay, that just didn't work for me, which means I need to go right or I need to go left and find something else instead of making me freeze, which is what I would totally do. I would freeze And then that would be the end of it. I'd be done for the day. So now it's just building those little skills. But you're the pro. So tell moms, and the reason I'm doing this with moms, the reason I'm even thinking like moms,
20:30 - 21:04
Cheryl: teens, I say that because everything you do, your kids are watching you. So if your kids hear you forever say, Oh, man, I really, really love to try. I'd love to open a business and do this. But you never do it. They're watching but if you do it and they see the process they see you fail they see you get messy they see you like How strong is that for a mom to do for her kids?
21:06 - 21:44
Christiane: You're bringing up an amazing point. And let me tell you 1 of my favorite stories. So I teach innovation entrepreneurship at the university and I love teaching. I'm really passionate. I will never ever give up teaching college students. When I became a mom, that sounds very passive, maybe let's say when I felt my daughter in my belly, right? It's that first feeling when you feel your child moving around and now she's 16, I'm in here. It sounds like that just happened yesterday, but it feels like this. I was teaching college students and all of a sudden
21:44 - 22:22
Christiane: I felt like somebody was turning up the volume on my census because I looked at these college students and all of a sudden I was like oh this could be my children this could be my my my my son or daughter I didn't know the gender right there in front of me. And it made me a better educator. I started to think I'm not just teaching innovation entrepreneurship. I'm not just talking about an elevator pitch. When I talk about an elevator pitch, I'm making these 20 year olds better humans because they're learning how to communicate in
22:22 - 22:59
Christiane: concise language. And it's not just to start a business, but also to let others know how amazing they are in form of like a pitch, right? They're interviewing, whether they're introducing themselves to their future husband, all of a sudden, they're becoming better humans. So making that shift in my thinking, oh, I'm a mom and I'm working full time, all of a sudden I thought, I need to look at everything that I do as it's positively enhancing who I am. So being a mom isn't just an excuse that some things don't get done. It actually was for
22:59 - 23:40
Christiane: me more an empowerment that I understand and I'm more empathetic to the student in the classroom. I'm sharing things in the classroom with my students so that they understand that. I basically tell my students in the classroom, right, So I have 2 teenagers at home and this is what we're doing and this is what we're struggling. And last weekend, my 2 teenage daughters, they see that I'm teaching and they see that I have my business and wellness coaching business. They get inspired by this. And so we saw a flyer for a teenage business entrepreneurship fair. And
23:40 - 23:54
Christiane: they said, you know what, we want to sell our products. We're making all this pottery in school. And while I love pottery, don't get me wrong. It's kind of like the mom with a child always comes mommy, I made a picture for you. It's like, what are you doing with?
23:55 - 23:56
Cheryl: Yeah.
23:56 - 24:38
Christiane: So I have a lot of pottery and I beautiful I don't have a problem with it. I just really don't need it. European efficiency. So I said, well, let's sell some of these things, right? Because they're gorgeous. And I'm sure others will appreciate it. There's a market out there. So I used my language with my children and they were really good salespeople. So they saw that I am putting together, you know, my logo, my slogan, my pitch, pricing, and they started doing that for their own business. And then I started talking about this in the classroom
24:38 - 25:14
Christiane: with my students. So you see where I'm going is I'm basically not looking at my life anymore. That's my role and there is my other role and there is this role, but I'm letting things weave in a little bit more because it makes me more of a well-rounded individual. And I'm not afraid to share things in 1 of these roles from the other role, because I think that sometimes people tend to look at us and they only see the 1 role that you're doing right now, and they don't understand that you have a whole other baggage
25:14 - 25:51
Christiane: of stuff, right? So that is, I think, what was the biggest shift for me, that I shared things at home of what I teach at work, that that inspired my children, that I also always have the door open to my office and my children can come in and see how I'm preparing my coaching material. That I think was the shift that it wasn't necessarily something that I felt. I need to create an isolation, but more, let me tell you what I'm doing. And with that, I'm hoping to inspire you, you can force them to do things.
25:52 - 26:04
Christiane: But if you make it very open, people see it. And then they eventually just kind of, They feel the passion and the joy. Oh yeah, I feel like it ripples out.
26:04 - 26:38
Cheryl: And I feel like when you're doing what brings you joy, yes, it's not compartmentalized. It comes home, it comes out because you're always energized. You're always talking about it. It's not like you get in the car at 05:00, say, don't want to talk about my day. I'm out, I'm done. Now I'm all over the place. And it's, it's, I told you, I went back to university and my daughter at 30, she had her career, she was writing for radio stations and she said, you know what, I think I want to do something different. What do you
26:38 - 27:10
Cheryl: think about if I go back to school at 30? And I said, well, let's go back a few years. And she was like, oh Yeah, you did that. I said, damn right I did. And I had 2 kids. So yes, you go do it. And now she is just living the dream. This was just a year so far and she's just loving. She's doing her throughout the day. And that's what I feel like. That's what we impart with our kids, we don't have to say, you need to do this, you need to do they just watch.
27:11 - 27:50
Cheryl: They watch our reactions to things they watch how we feel about things they watch, you know, what brings us joy. And then they don't have to wait. This is my point. My long point is, so many of us wait until we're 5055. And I would just love to shorten that time span for kids to think, oh, I don't have to follow that path and then do something later. I can feel what this is like in my body now and just have joy all day. Like, what a concept.
27:52 - 28:08
Christiane: Yep, that's the perfect encouragement right there. It's truly, we are the best role models. And sometimes that's another thing that, you know, we just our passions change.
28:09 - 28:09
Cheryl: And
28:09 - 28:48
Christiane: we are afraid to admit that. Right. It's just like our wardrobe favorites change or our flavors, flavors change. So you might like, I'm just going to bring up an example right here. I just recently started drinking vanilla lattes. I'm not even afraid about this. I'm like, you know what, 2024 is my vanilla latte year. Will that be the same in 2025? No, but you know what? That's all right. That's something you need to embrace. If you worked in a career and you loved it, there's nothing wrong with saying, you know what, been there, done that. That
28:48 - 29:18
Christiane: was amazing. And right now it's just not right anymore. It just doesn't feel good. So maybe I wanna go the vanilla latte route and I wanna try something totally different even though I used to be drinking green tea. Now I'm like going down that road. And that's cool because you need to listen to your body and be in your passions because then you're going to be really good with this. And we tend to kind of like with the laundry, We just tend to shove it in a different room and say, I'm just going to close the
29:18 - 29:27
Christiane: door. I know it's in there, but I'm going to wait until and then there is this arbitrary date. Don't do that.
29:28 - 29:56
Cheryl: Yeah. Yeah. No, I completely agree. So let's give, let's give our moms 5 steps. Like what, so they're in the situation we're talking, they've got this corporate job, teens are at home and they know they wanna move, but they're petrified. Besides calling someone like you or in addition to calling someone like you, what can we give them like little bite-sized steps to take?
29:58 - 30:39
Christiane: Yeah, so I call it my 5C framework, right? I'm a very structured thinker, very German and European, and I like to anchor things around letters or numbers. So let's start with the first 1, right? First C is, well, we have to start connecting. There's no way around it. Even though you are the absolute superpower, you actually start connecting with yourself at that very moment. And that will actually help you and figure out what you're really good at. So you could start thinking about, what in the past have I really enjoyed? And this is really important. What
30:39 - 31:12
Christiane: in the past can I let go? So you need to create a joy list and you need to create a to-go list. And that connection with yourself will help you and refine the dream that you're really going to go for. And now the second connection piece is you also then need to connect with others and you have to communicate that. So you have to communicate your dream to others. It's unbelievable how many times, so I want to write a book, how many times I say I want to write a book and by communicating it and voicing
31:12 - 31:45
Christiane: it, I'm feeling more confident about it. You see how many C's I'm weaving into this, right? But it also is unbelievable the connections that I'm building because I'm sharing my dream. So I connected with myself and I was like, no, this is something I really want to do. I love writing. I don't want to write a textbook, so there's my new list. I want to write a fun book. It's short and it's fun and it's cute. So I'm going to start connecting with people that can help me get there. So then you have to communicate it,
31:45 - 32:00
Christiane: right? And that is sometimes we are afraid of communicating it because we're feeling like, oh my gosh, it seems like super embarrassing. People will be like, you want to write a book like you? Don't do that. Or
32:00 - 32:09
Cheryl: you become accountable. Then it's like 20 years later, where's that book? Where's the book you told me about? Oh, that 1, yeah.
32:09 - 32:50
Christiane: Yeah, yeah. So that leads to the next step. So we connected, the communication piece, super important right there, all right? Now comes the next step. How can you collaborate? Which doesn't necessarily even mean that you reach out to others, but collaboration also means that you kind of create a little bit of a timeline or you pull in different strategies, tools, anything that will lead you to your goal right there. Because the third step is create. Now you actually really have to do it. You connect it, you collaborate it, which means you research things and you have
32:50 - 33:25
Christiane: to set yourself a deadline. Otherwise, you go down the rabbit hole and you're still researching in 5 years. Just see what others recommended, the ones that you communicated your dream to, see what feels right, and then just go with it. You will always learn other tools and other systems. But you know what, now we just need to move, you know. So then we are collaborating now we are creating. And the creation means it's probably going to be messy the first time around. It might actually be horrible, right? It might be something you look back to and
33:25 - 34:02
Christiane: you're like, what in the world was I thinking? When I look at my first podcast recordings, put it on a phone. I mean, I'm like, I think I really think that's a good strategy, like talking into my phone. Oh, my God, you're living my life. And the funny thing is, I thought, I probably need to have a guest, right? There's podcasts and they all have guests. And I was like, who's living in my house? Oh, I'm gonna ask my husband. So in my interview with my husband, who was my first guest, We passed the phone back
34:02 - 34:04
Christiane: and forth like a walkie-talkie.
34:07 - 34:08
Cheryl: That's amazing.
34:08 - 34:41
Christiane: Yeah, but you know what? Now I'm laughing about it. Back then it seemed pretty good. I researched and it was like, yeah, use your phone as a recording device. I didn't think of the fact that I guess I could also film the video part of it, but that's in the past now. So moving on, right? Connection communicated, you collaborate it. Now we are creating and now comes the really important part. You have to have the confidence and push publish. You don't have the confidence and put publish. It's going to live on your computer. It's just going
34:41 - 35:08
Christiane: to be content that will be content forever. And you need to create it to share it, right? So having the confidence is so important because it's actually something that you put your work into it and think now is the time is done. I already put it out there. I just have to actually share it. Yeah, that's it. That's amazing.
35:08 - 35:41
Cheryl: I feel like you just coached my ass off. And it's funny because we talk about these little quirks like doing things on the phone and passing things, but if people don't see that, they only see the finished. So we have to share that this is what it's like to start. Yeah, this is and yeah, yeah, my credit card account with all the courses I've taken and said, oh no, I don't like that. Well, this looks good. Let's try this shiny ball over here and something will stick and something will feel good. And if we don't tell
35:41 - 35:55
Cheryl: people about that, they just think there's this finished product they're never going to get to, this painting that's got the veratain and everything on it. We didn't get messy with it. Nothing's on our hands. And so I really think it's important that we share these things.
35:56 - 36:39
Christiane: It is actually really important because we all stop at 1 point another along that 5C journey, right? You might get stuck at the communication piece, you might get stuck at the collaboration piece where you know you just keep searching for the best tool thing out there. And there's always, as I say, even with podcasting, there are always new things that come out. And my rule is I look at them and I briefly evaluate, but I don't dwell on them because I know that what I'm doing right now is working. And so unless it's like, there's like
36:39 - 37:22
Christiane: a huge financial reason to do it, I consider it. But otherwise I'm like, so for instance, I have a course, a wellness course and a mastermind. And for years and years, I paid a course learning management software, $500 per year. And now I figured out There's actually another system out there where you pay $500 for a lifelong subscription. So that's, that's when I'm actually going to pull the trigger and I'm transferring all my stuff over to this lifelong subscription because it makes sense. I don't want to pay $500 for eternity when every year when I could
37:22 - 37:30
Christiane: just pay it once and it's done. But like the little things like, Oh, I could save like $2 per month if I transfer all this, it's not worth it.
37:30 - 37:32
Cheryl: It's not worth the time. No. Oh
37:33 - 38:06
Christiane: my goodness. It's just money. But you will get your time back. And think about all the insanity you're going to drive yourself, because this is not going to be that easy to switch. So I have podcast interviews all the time. And everybody uses a different system and all this and unless there's a big issue with it, I say just stick to it. It's kind of like, you know, when when people load dishwashers, right, You could go ahead and you open the drawers and like, well, the forks actually go this way and the knives here and plates
38:06 - 38:14
Christiane: will get so much cleaner if we put them this way. But you know what? If it cleans the dishes, don't redo the whole thing. No. No.
38:15 - 38:24
Cheryl: Yep. My partner loads like an order and height and color and everything. And I load it like I'm a raccoon on meth. Like, yeah,
38:25 - 38:59
Christiane: I'm the same way. I'm like, oh, the countertop is clean. It's all in there. And then I switch on and it feels so gratifying. My mustang is like, yes, like the pre-rinse. I'm just not that way. I'm more like the put it in, switch on and move away from the situation person. And It's just, you know, it gets the job done. Because all of my husband sees when he opens the dishwasher. Well, 90% of the time, all of them are clean. I have to admit, the system might be better, but you know what? I don't care.
38:59 - 39:04
Christiane: No, no. Because to me, it's just like that famous book that's called Don't Spit the Small Stuff.
39:04 - 39:14
Cheryl: Yes, and it's all small stuff. That's right. I love it. Okay, so we've got Connect, Collaborate, Communicate,
39:16 - 39:22
Christiane: Create, Create, and then Confidence, Confidence, Push the button, publish.
39:22 - 39:26
Cheryl: I love it. What a great system. This is great. Oh. Confidence is
39:26 - 39:57
Christiane: a big 1 because we actually, I just learned that recently too, that it has a lot to do with, you know, not even moving from piece to piece with being perfectionist and being so hard on yourself. And after we pushed published, oh, maybe there's a typo somewhere or something like that, and like questioning things. And it has a lot to do with that the confidence is really wallowing over all of this.
39:57 - 40:35
Cheryl: Yeah, yeah. And you know, I think and I just read a book lately where the difference between self confidence and self worth is that self confidence can come and go. But if you feel inside that you're worthy of giving it a shot anyway, then it doesn't matter. Right? The confidence can come. But if you're feeling like I can do this no matter what, then great, then then that's the confidence. That's where it comes from courage, confidence, worth, all of that. But you're right. I mean, it's, I got to the point now where I'm doing, when I
40:35 - 41:04
Cheryl: do my Instagram Reels, which took me forever to find the guts to do, when I do it, I will not edit it. I do it and I said it, I do it and I said it, and I don't care. I don't care if I'm stuttering, if I, you know, have something going on in the background that I shouldn't, whatever. But, but that's just for me personally, that was my level of going published, just published. Don't worry about if it's not perfect. You don't have your lipstick on your, your offices. It doesn't matter, right? So, so I
41:04 - 41:09
Cheryl: totally, those 5 C's are perfect. Like I said, I think you just coached my own ass off, which is great.
41:10 - 41:40
Christiane: Oh yeah, and you know, it's great that you bring it up with social media because I used to think so much about, oh, I have to create like a little thumbprint for each post on Instagram. And it has to be this 9 grid thing, where it follows a pattern and things. And then after a while, I was like, Do people actually look at the line? Do they look at my profile like, oh, do you do, do, do, do, do, do, do? Oh my gosh, there's a big boo-boo in the middle. And I was like, no. So
41:40 - 42:14
Christiane: I don't do that anymore. I don't do the cover art thing. I basically just record a video and I put it out there. It's great for me because I'm feeling it shows more authentically who I am instead of having so like polished image. I think that we sometimes we feel like we need to be on this pedestal and show up to the world in a certain way. And it's, it's just absolutely not necessary. And not realistic. And it doesn't help anybody.
42:15 - 42:26
Cheryl: If we're here to guide and help and set examples, especially for our kids, like showing them the perfect and we have all the answers is not helping at all. It's not right.
42:27 - 43:05
Christiane: And it, I, you have to admit it too. I mean, I sometimes I teach a class, it could be a workout class, it could be an innovation class, it could be my coaching and then sometimes I say you know what, today I'm really tired. So it's just that's just what it is, That's the point where I'm at right now. I'm not going to cancel class over this, but that's just today I'm just that. And by communicating your needs, you are actually creating a little bit more, like it's nearly like we have this wall and you're making
43:05 - 43:30
Christiane: it a little bit more. You're creating these little pores of empathy that can come through. Right. Yeah. That is so important for females because females we like to talk to each other and help each other out. Sharing what you actually need. It makes it very difficult to figure out how can I even talk to you? I don't even know, really. Right.
43:30 - 43:55
Cheryl: Yeah, we hold space for ourselves in that way. Then we automatically hold space for everybody else. What a gift. Yeah. Well, thank you. I this was such a great conversation. I had so much fun with this and The 5 C's we're going to put everything in the show notes, but tell everybody where to find you, how to work with you, resources, all of the things. Let us know.
43:55 - 44:03
Christiane: Well, yeah, thank you. Realizing now, I guess, Cheryl and Christiana, we are the remaining 2 C's in our little list of happiness right there.
44:04 - 44:05
Cheryl: I love it. I
44:05 - 44:47
Christiane: love it. Reach out, please. It's hellohappiness.com. And I do have that mastermind, which is a really fun and bubbly group. We are lifting each other up. And we are also there to empower each other and push through because I think the community piece is super important. Tune into my podcast. It's called Happy Healthy Hustle. And then of course, if you want to check out my Instagram, mine is the 9 grid layout, go to hello.happy.nest and you can find, I actually do post every single day. You can find my videos there. I see it. It's just something
44:48 - 45:00
Christiane: that I started speaking about my petite practices that I use in my coaching I started doing it now it's just a practice and I just do it. It's like oh yeah today I shared about vanilla latte. Amazing.
45:01 - 45:02
Cheryl: I love it.
45:02 - 45:27
Christiane: I actually thought last night I was like, here we are in April. Yeah, I need to share some like, habit, like controversial habit that I picked up. That is not really something that other people might think that I'm doing because some people are like, oh, I have to reduce my caffeine intake. I thought, oh, I need to post about, I actually leveled up my caffeine.
45:27 - 45:30
Cheryl: I love it. I go
45:30 - 45:41
Christiane: in the right direction. I'm like January 1, I'm like yeah let's try some vanilla latte. I mean I love it. That's amazing.
45:42 - 45:46
Cheryl: Well thank you Cristiana, I really appreciate this and thank you for the work that
46:15 - 46:15
Christiane: you
47 min
May 08, 2024 #28 "Building Skills and Memories: 5 Unique & Accessible Travel Opportunities for Teens" with Erica Forrest
Erica Forrest is a travel education specialist and best selling author who helps curious people learn more through their trips. As the founder of the travel education company, Trip Scholars, she blends over thirty years of experience in education with her experiences as an internationally certified travel coach and advisor.
Through her signature LEARN Through Travel Program, she helps curious people discover what they can do before, during, and after travel to bring more meaning, connection, and understanding to both their journeys, and their lives. She has hosted travel workshops for teens, young adults, and parents.
Erica has been a local NPR guest and published on over 60 travel sites. She has been featured in Wander Magazine, Buzzfeed, Apartment Therapy, and Best Life.

With her background as a former school director, high school teacher, and homeschool parent, Erica excels at expanding people’s excitement for travel into deeper understanding and joyful discovery. She is an expert in travel planning, and she takes pride in enthusiastically sharing tips and travel skills that will empower others to master these valuable abilities for themselves.

Cheryl

Welcome to another episode of Teen Minds Redefined where we strive to redefine the relationships we have with our teenagers and foster their growth into their true authentic selves. And today I have a beautiful guest, Erica Forrest, who is a travel education specialist, a best-selling author, whose book is World Schoolers, who helps curious people learn more through their trips. And as the founder of the travel education company, Trip Scholars, She blends over 30 years of experience in education with her experiences as an internationally certified travel coach and advisor.

Cheryl

00:54Erica has been a local NPR guest and published over 60 travel sites. She has been featured in Wander magazine, Buzzfeed, apartment therapy, and best life. With her background as a former school director, high school teacher, and homeschool parent, Erica excels at expanding people's excitement for travel into deeper understanding and joyful discovery. She is an expert in travel planning, and she takes pride in enthusiastically sharing tips and travel skills that will empower others to master these valuable abilities for themselves.

Cheryl

01:30

Welcome, Erica.

Erica

01:32

Oh, thanks Cheryl. I am so happy to be here with you. I really enjoy your podcast and I'm grateful get to have this conversation with you today.

Cheryl

01:41

Well, funny thing is when I started this podcast since we're kind of talking more to parents of kids who are near divergent or special education stuff. And it has just exploded into something completely different. And I'll tell you, I never thought, oh, I'm going to find a guest on travel.

Cheryl

02:02

So good for you for grabbing this unique niche that I would never in a million years. And yet, I love to travel, my kids love to travel. Like it's just, I get it, like there's such a beautiful connection there. So tell me how you got to this point.

Erica

02:21

Well, sure. So you can probably tell I love learning and I am just fascinated with how people learn and what the journey of discovery is like for different people. And as I went through all of these different ways of supporting people and educating people and supporting families, it became so clear that most of our deepest learning happens when we're having an experience.

Erica

02:51

And I invite your listeners to think about what are some of the most powerful things that you have learned, the most important things that you have learned both about yourself and the world. And I think for many of us, they happen when we're traveling. And so as our family, you know, in your bio that you read, thank you, You heard I was a high school teacher and I was a director of Montessori schools and our family eventually ended up homeschooling and at first, you know, it was traditional homeschooling. It became very child led and I ended up becoming more of a facilitator, helping them find resources.

Erica

03:32

And we ended up doing a lot of our learning through traveling. And I would spend an enormous amount of time trying to find great resources to support what we were doing and make the learning really impactful and meaningful. And I kept thinking, gosh, wouldn't it be great if there was a place people could go, a place I could go to have a whole bunch of these creative ideas and some of the best resources. So I wasn't wasting time, you know, watching YouTube videos that weren't very helpful.

Erica

04:09

And I realized, oh, I could, I could provide the service to other people. This is something that is so exciting and interesting to me. I love traveling and I love supporting people and learning. And, you know, 1 of the things I really like about your podcast is your focus on supporting teens and those of us who love teens and are supporting them into becoming their true authentic selves.

Erica

04:38

And I think travel helps all of us do that. So yeah, I, Our youngest is 18. And so a few years ago, my husband and I are planning to move aboard a sailboat. He's been a sailor for a long time and live off of a sailboat and explore the world.

Erica

05:02

And so a few years ago, when we were looking at this transition, you know, when we become empty nesters in the next 5 years or so, what what do we want to do? And I realized I could build a business around supporting other people in learning through travel. So I'm so grateful to have had the opportunity to do that.

Cheryl

05:24

Well, blending everything into 1 amazing dream, that's kind of so cool. Yeah. I'm sitting here thinking we were both teachers.

Cheryl

05:35

I was a high school teacher and I can't imagine at home going, okay kids, we're going to go to March break, we're going to go here, and this is what we're going to learn. And then I'm going, then I'm not coming, because this is a break from school. So how do we incorporate that conversation or do we even have that conversation when we have, you know, 14, 15, 16 year olds going, if you're gonna turn this into a teaching moment, I'm not coming. How do we do that?

Erica

06:06

I think all of us who have raised teens know that experience of being on a family vacation with people not necessarily wanting to be there or you know you're in a museum and they're on their phone or they would rather be back home with their friends or something like that. So it's a pretty universal experience a lot of the challenges that so I work with I work with families and individuals and then I've also been lucky enough to do workshops specific to teens and young adults and parents. So in all of that, a lot of these challenges are really common And they can, I've got some steps I'd be happy to share that could be helpful to parents and teens who are looking to do some trips together.

Erica

07:00

And so travel is so expansive. When we're talking about it, I've been able to narrow it down into a program I called the learn through travel approach and learn as an acronym. And so L is listen to yourself. This is something we can do before we travel to have more meaningful trips and more authentic experiences.

Erica

07:26

E is educate yourself about your destination. That's another thing we can do in advance. And A is advance our travel skills. There's all kinds of things we can do to make travel more affordable, something we can enjoy more of, and also less stressful and more enjoyable.

Erica

07:43

Finally, or not finally, but next would be R, which is revitalize ourselves while we're traveling to be fully present when we're traveling. And finally N is nourish your travel dreams when you return, how can you integrate how you've grown, what you've learned and what your long-term travel dreams are into your day-to-day life. And so back to your question, what can people do to, you know, bring, engage our teams more into travel? First, I just want to say cheers to any parents who are planning family trips.

Erica

08:22

I know you're already very busy. So what I wanna share, I really don't want it to feel like it's adding 1 more thing to your to-do list. The idea is to lean into some of these things and grow in more authentic conversations and connect more while we're talking about these things and build on the stuff that we really love to do or that our teams love to do. So back to listen to yourself.

Erica

08:48

This is actually something I think a lot of us when we're planning a trip, you know, we might want to spend a little bit more time thinking about what is it that we really wanna get out of this travel experience? Why are we taking this trip? And why, and talking with our family members, why do they want to take this trip? And I think as educators, sometimes when we're traveling, we do wanna have all these amazing educational experiences.

Erica

09:21

But if we think about it in advance, maybe we're also really wanting to have some connection with our family while we're traveling. And so if we think about that while we're planning a trip, we can realize we really do wanna build in some more downtime. We want to let the kids participate more in crafting the itinerary, right? The more we think about why we want to have this trip.

Erica

09:47

And if there are teens listening, you might want to be taking a trip for adventure or to learn something new. A lot of times we are also taking trips to grow and find out who we are in relation to the world or in relation to new experiences, right? So to spend a little bit of time at the beginning and talking as a family about what do you want from the trip and then being able to lean into that throughout the trip planning and the trip experience can really help to make it better. Another thing would be me moving into the E part, to educate yourself about the destination.

Erica

10:29

And especially with teens, you know, you might have some family photos where most of the people in the family are smiling at the destination, the place that you've been building up to, and then you might have a teen who's not so happy to be there. I can see this. I'm sure you can. We have photos like that too.

Erica

10:50

I think a lot of us do. And 1 of the things that we you know, if it's not a pose picture, they're probably laughing and smiling. But 1 of the things that we can do to really help them have more engagement in planning it is to get their buy-in so that they're participating in helping to plan the trip. And there's a whole bunch of things that we can do to help this happen.

Erica

11:23

I'd be happy to talk a little bit about that if you want. Yeah, of course. Okay, great. So 1 of the things I really recommend people do, whether it's you as a solo traveler or you as a parent of a child, or when you're working with, traveling with teens, they're going to be doing a lot of this on their own too.

Erica

11:46

But to really think about what can we do in advance of the trip that we could understand our destinations better so that we can really appreciate it from a multifaceted perspective. And we can, there's actually studies that show people get more enjoyment out of the planning of a trip than they do while they're on the trip or even remembering the trip. So there's plenty we can do so that that's not necessarily true for you. But it is a really amazing opportunity to lean into that planning phase.

Erica

12:27

And a lot of us, you know, we look at Airbnbs or we are on TripAdvisor finding activities we wanna do and that's all fun. But we can also use that excitement and that anticipation to discover more about where we're going. But you're already busy, your kids are already busy. And so 1 of the things we can do is think about what are what are your child's interests, or hobbies, their learning styles, any questions that they have or goals, and then try to match that up with things they already like to do and enjoy doing or that your family enjoys doing.

Erica

13:07

So I encourage people to, you know, most of us are, if you're driving your kids around, you're probably listening to something in the car. You can be looking for a playlist related to where you're going, whether that's music or historic music or podcasts or, you know, audiobooks. If you do movie nights at home, can you start to watch some movies about where you're going or anime or documentaries or whatever it is that your family enjoys doing. If you're a family who loves games, there's amazing video games, board games, card games that are related to where you are going, or maybe you're going camping so you can play games related to nature.

Erica

13:55

Whatever it is, leaning into what your kids already love doing or what your family loves doing, but finding that overlap with the destination where you're going so that you start to have more conversations about the trip. And it's a joyful, exciting thing. And then when you're watching the movie, you start to ask, you know, do you think that really happened? I don't know, let's find out.

Erica

14:22

Or maybe your child likes cooking and you can encourage, you know, if they make dinner once a week, ask if they could try out 1 of these recipes or if you guys want to do it together or any of these opportunities to start to bring the trip to life and let them go with what is interesting and exciting about it.

Cheryl

14:47

I love the video game idea. I never have thought about that. Well, it's why you do what you do and I don't.

Cheryl

14:54

But what a great idea like OK, yeah,

Erica

14:56

yes, or even if they like to program their own video games. You know, for example, our 2 of our kids ended up making a video game based on, it was called Ariadne's Thread, and based on the myth of the Minotaur. When our family was planning a trip to Greece, they, you know, we were talking about all of these things and we went to Crete and we went to the ancient palace and complex of Knossos where it's thought, you know, the myth of the Minotaur stems from, because it was this really advanced civilization and they had all of these underground passages.

Erica

15:40

So it was a tremendously profound experience to get to, you know, intertwine their building of this video game and the real life experience of it. So yeah, there's just so many opportunities and I really want to acknowledge your kids are busy, you're busy, so this doesn't have to be, you know, we're going to study this. It can be a more natural and joyful experience. So, and also, you know, if your kids are developing other skills like photography or nature journaling or any anything like that you can also lean into skills like that and help them build that up before they go.

Erica

16:31

So there's there's just so many opportunities but really partnering with your teens and then leaning into what's exciting and then inviting them to help participate in the kinds of activities that you'll be doing on your trip.

Cheryl

16:46

That's amazing. What in your experience, what is the value of saying, okay, we're going here, Monday is your choice. Whatever you want to do Monday is what we're doing Monday, and then Tuesday he picks and then Wednesday I pick.

Cheryl

17:03

Like what is the value of that in your experience?

Erica

17:07

Yeah, I think that's a terrific question. And like an extension of what we were just talking about, say your child is interested in cooking, they start learning more about cooking a particular cuisine and then they want to go to the local market that offers the ingredients and all of that and then they watch a little videos about how to cook in that way. So then when you're planning, inviting them, letting them take some ownership and leadership of how the trip is going to go and say, what's your opinion about where we should eat?

Erica

17:45

Or do you think a food tour would be, you know, something interesting? Or I found a cooking class. Does that sound interesting to anybody? Or, you know, as they get older, do you wanna look for a cooking class or a food tour that the family could take?

Erica

18:01

So letting them participate in it, you know, it when for teenagers, they're obviously developing this autonomy and need for privacy and cultivating relationships with their peers in a new way. And when you're on a family trip, a lot of times everybody's in 1 room or 1 tent, or there's not a lot of alone time. People don't have the same kinds of privacy and freedom that they might get at home. So really acknowledging that.

Erica

18:35

And even depending on the age of your teen, saying you know not everybody has to participate in everything that we do every day. What would you like to invite the family to do or letting them have a lot more choice can be so helpful.

Cheryl

18:55

Yeah, so I totally get that. So let's say now, The kids

Erica

19:00

are getting a little older

Cheryl

19:03

and they are looking to travel alone.

Erica

19:06

Ah, yes.

Cheryl

19:08

So what is the safe age and what are the conversations you're going to have around that and are there specific places you would say yes, go here, not here? Like are there guidelines to that?

Erica

19:21

Those are great questions too, Cheryl. I think, you know, each family it's going to be different and like we have 3 kids, I think it is different for every child and what their interests are. Some suggestions would be start talking with them about what why they want to travel and that will help the more you can talk about it and again going back to that listen piece what are they wanting out of the experience?

Erica

19:50

And learning to travel, whether this is a 12 or 13-year-old, and you're asking them to help navigate through public transportation, or this is a 19 year old who's looking to create a travel lifestyle for themselves. There's a big, a lot of steps in between both of those things, but travel can be just such a terrific way to learn some of these skills that we need in adulthood, because they're motivated, something they really want to do, they care about it, but it's also fun and it is manageable. I've heard the saying that travel is like life in miniature. So, you know, it's a, it's a compact experience that they can control parts of and also learn how to deal with, you know, the frustrations And travel has plenty of things that don't go the way that you want it to go, learning how to manage all of that, great place to make mistakes for the most part.

Erica

20:56

And so your question about some other things that they can do as they step into travel, you can first start to let them help participate in planning family trips like what we were talking about and then as they get older or if they really like itineraries or schedules or anything like that letting them actually plan that or if you have a child interested in finance and money, they can help with the budgeting. And then younger teens, I would encourage them to try out things in your hometown. So, you know, before you go and take the metro in Paris, learn how to navigate your own public transportation at home. If your family is going to the museum or going to watch a performance, let them be in charge of getting the tickets so that when they're traveling independently a couple of years later, they already have this robust skill set.

Cheryl

21:59

That's great.

Erica

22:01

Yeah. If they're planning on doing some solo travel, encourage them to, you know, when they're younger, go out to eat by themselves. That's a hard thing for a lot of people to do. And let them have that experience in the comfort of your own hometown.

Erica

22:16

But then they can start to take trips to visit family or friends and you know when they're children and they're doing an independent trip like that you're probably doing all of the planning but now you can ask them to coordinate you know how they're gonna get to the airport and from the airport, what their itinerary will be when they go visit family and friends. And then if they are especially driven, letting them or encouraging them to start planning their own dream trip. And then this in itself will motivate people to, if they're planning a trip for a gap year experience, they might feel like they wanna go and get a job so that they can start saving money. They might, if they're planning to live in another country or travel to another country during a gap year or a special trip, they might want to start learning the language.

Erica

23:13

So, or photography, that it has this ability to encourage this innate desire to learn and for us to stick with something that, you know, if it's something abstract, it's sometimes harder to stay with it. And then they can start learning more about budgeting and itinerary planning and all of that. So again to your question when is a good age or a good place? I think you know it's going to be a spectrum.

Erica

23:45

So first start with things in your hometown, then start with safe travel to family or friends, and then maybe they're looking at other experiences. And travel is built on these skills, just like so many other things. And the more that you do it, the stronger those those muscles get until, you know, they could be a young adult doing nomadic travel around the world on their own or doing an exchange program, or there's a lot of different activities that older teens can consider. I'd be happy to talk about that too, if you want.

Cheryl

24:28

Sure. Yeah, of course.

Erica

24:30

Of course. Okay. Yeah.

Erica

24:32

So then for older teens, I think probably most listeners are familiar with programs like study abroad programs and exchange student programs. It's good for people to know that there are study abroad programs where the tuition is actually less expensive than many universities here in the United States. And, but you have a lot of listeners in Canada. I know you guys have a better program up there.

Erica

25:03

And some of those study abroad programs are in English and at those reduced rates. So it's helpful for people to know that. There are also a lot of opportunities for people of all ages to travel for free and with more immersive experiences. And so there are programs like Workaway, Woofing, and Pet Sitting or House sitting.

Erica

25:30

So these are all programs where you can sign up on different platforms and there will be hosts, people who are looking for volunteers to, you know, in pet sitting or house sitting, obviously come in, stay in the house and care for the animals. Woofing is working on organic farms and orchards and things like that around the world. And then- Oh my gosh. Yeah, yeah.

Erica

25:58

And then work away is 1 where there's a wide range of things, everything from the 2 things I just mentioned, to come and help our children learn English, and stay in our guest room. Well, you can use the bikes, you know, to ride your bike to ride our bikes into town. There's all of these opportunities now. And you in most of them have lodging, sometimes you get food, and you in many of these, you know, you're just volunteering for a few hours a day, 5 days a week, and then you have the rest of the time to yourself.

Erica

26:42

So there's these great opportunities. Now you wouldn't probably want to do that at 15. You're not even allowed to. But those are skills you could be building.

Erica

26:50

So if those things sound interesting to you, as a teenager, you can start learning about them now. And then say you want to do pet sitting. You could start walking, you know, dogs and building up the skills, building up the resume now, so that when you're a few years older, you would be able to be part of 1 of these programs and have this nice robust resume so that everybody who reads it is thinking, yeah, this would be a great person to invite here. Where have

Cheryl

27:20

you been? Where have you been? Like, honestly, this is so good.

Cheryl

27:26

This is so good. And I had no idea. Oh, sorry. OK, go.

Erica

27:29

No, there's just so, I didn't either. Our family didn't travel when I was a child. I don't think I went out of state.

Erica

27:39

Well, I flew out of state as an infant. But in my memory, we didn't even go out of state until I was a teenager. And I didn't, we travel just wasn't a part of our lives. And it wasn't until I got a car and a job that I started getting to take road trips.

Erica

27:58

And I just fell in love with traveling. And I had no idea that all these resources were here. And then even as a young family, and taking our trips, you know, we did a lot, we did a lot of domestic travel, but I didn't realize how affordable and that there were all of these programs available so that we could travel more. And now, you know, I'm so immersed in this world.

Erica

28:28

There's all kinds of travel opportunities. And so teenagers or young adults who are interested in travel, there's so many, obviously after COVID, there's so many location independent jobs available. But you can be thinking about, you know, whatever career you're interested in, look at it broadly, Is there a way that I could live in another country and do this job? And you could also consider being a travel professional of some kind.

Erica

28:55

Everything from being a blogger to travel coach to a travel agent. But then there's lots of jobs in the travel and tourism industry as well, and things are changing so quickly, who knows. That's amazing. I love it.

Cheryl

29:13

So the pessimistic mom in me says, do we go over before I let my baby go? Do we go over a list of worst case scenarios? And what we're going to do?

Erica

29:27

Yeah. So are you talking primarily about if they were to take a solo trip or as a family?

Cheryl

29:34

Yes, no, because in my head, my daughter just decided, I'm going to go to Paris for a month. Oh, did she really? She did, And I just about had cardiac arrest.

Cheryl

29:48

And I was like, oh my God, but you don't want to, you're like, she had the, you know, most of the money she worked for it. She knew what she wanted. She was going to do like a TEFL program, teach English for Second Language. Yeah.

Cheryl

30:03

And I just, I put her on this plane all by herself. She's so she's so strong and independent. I gave her 0 credit, but it was me going, oh, what? And, You know, when she flew off, I was like, I've never been to Paris.

Cheryl

30:19

I don't know what to warn her about. I have to make what's the emergency number. Who can she phone? Is she does she need a wife?

Cheryl

30:25

Does she need to call the police? Like it for a month. She had a phenomenal time. And I'm so proud she did it.

Cheryl

30:32

I cried for 37 days, but that doesn't matter. But I wish I had known then, okay, good, here you go. She's smart and intuitive, so I wasn't worried about that. But you know, you're in a different country with a different language.

Cheryl

30:47

And I would have loved to have said, okay, if this happens and you're gonna do this and if this happens and you're gonna do this. Yeah. You just might have ignored me, but I would have felt better if I had gone over it.

Erica

30:59

Yeah, I completely understand. And I have been there too. And I think it happened because you're a great mom and you love her.

Erica

31:06

So I think that is all normal and natural. I actually have a whole like a whole checklist related to health concerns and safety concerns related to travel. So when I'm working one-on-one with people, I share that as part of what we're working through, especially if they are newer travelers or young travelers. And some of the things in their air are meant to just be able to think it through.

Erica

31:39

Obviously not every safety concern is applicable to every trip, but it is helpful to think about them and come up with a contingency plan. And so there's lots and lots of tips for exactly what you are talking about. I guess I could just share a couple of them, but 1 of them is, especially for a young person, what is your policy going to be about checking in? And just having an honest conversation, you know, I believe in you, I know you can do this, and yet I love you and I'm scared.

Erica

32:17

And I need to know that you're safe every day. But I don't want to interfere with your trip, what sounds good to you for a check in plan and then have that conversation. So in our family, Like this summer, our 18 year old also was in France and Belgium traveling solo. And I was very proud of them also.

Erica

32:42

And also, you know, we're moms, so of course, we're scared. And so we have had plenty of conversations in advance and came up with the plan, we're going to do a daily check in, it could be a photo, it could be just a emoji, it could be anything like that. But just so that we know, you know, that everybody's okay, Having a conversation about the itinerary beforehand and saying, I want you to have this independent experience, but I'd like a copy of your itinerary if you're comfortable with that and to know where you're staying in case there's an emergency. To have some backup plans, I think talking about things like safety, you know, in many of the places that our teens would be traveling for some of their first trips or as young adults.

Erica

33:35

It's not necessarily that the biggest risk is going to be violent crime, but more likely to be pickpocketing or theft. And that can be really scary if you lose your phone and your passport. So having some contingency plans, like I encourage people to take a photo of their passport and their credit cards and any other important documents, prescriptions or whatever, and then email it to your parents and to yourself and that way if something happens they can send it to you or you can log into another computer and have access to it so that you can cancel those cards.

Cheryl

34:17

So smart. I'm going to start doing that. I don't do that.

Cheryl

34:21

Oh my gosh. That's so good.

Erica

34:23

Yeah, it's a great idea. And you know, having, I always encourage people also have a payment method on you while you're doing your stuff, but consider also, you know, depending on if you're in a hostel or a hotel with a safe or any of those things, keep another card or some other cash and maybe a photocopy of your passport in another location. So that if somebody does get your bag, you still have a manageable way to deal with it without it being such a crisis.

Erica

34:58

So yeah, there's just a lot of little tips like that. There's safety things that you can think about in relation to how you're carrying your stuff. Do you have, you know, a lot of us like to have that, like just the over shoulder bag, but you can get you can get a brand where it can't be slashed and has little clips for your zippers and everything so that people are deterred. You know you don't want to have your wallet in your backpack while you're on a bus, where people can get into it from behind.

Erica

35:36

So just kind of thinking through a lot of those different scenarios. What would I do if I got a migraine? What would I do if I lost my purse? And then having a plan and having those conversations.

Erica

35:48

I mean, it's like so many of the things that we do with teenagers, right? We not only are having the experience right now, but we're looking forward into the future and seeing, you know, how can this skill build on what they already know and help them get to being able to do this independently.

Cheryl

36:06

And when you're not in the middle of the vortex of the storm, if you already have a plan, it's like, oh, I think we talked about this. Exactly. Right?

Cheryl

36:15

Not in meltdown mode where you just freeze and don't know what to do. If we're talking about it beforehand, great. I think I've heard this before. Oh yeah, mom said or dad said, and yeah.

Erica

36:26

Yeah, yeah. And so to have those conversations in advance and ask them, what do you think would be a good thing to do if your flight gets canceled or if your luggage is lost? Probably your luggage won't be lost, but if it is, and then maybe you have a conversation, then they end up deciding to do carry-on only so they don't have to worry about it.

Erica

36:48

And letting again, like what we were talking about before, letting them take more ownership but that you're there to support them and help them think through all of those questions.

Cheryl

37:00

I love it. I love that. I just oh, here's 1 tip.

Cheryl

37:04

Make sure they take their roaming off their cell phone. So they don't get the $1,200 Rogers bill. They get home. There's tip number 1.

Cheryl

37:15

And to be honest, my son is 34 and he's engaged and my daughter's married and she's 30. And you know what, they text me when they get to the airport, they text me when they land, they text me when they're changing. And I always say, I know you're grown-ass adults, but I so appreciate this. And I know you don't have to I really appreciate that you do so I'm here and I love that you talked about all those other programs because 1 of my questions was like now you've answered is making travel accessible And you also touched on it when you said, you know, travel can be camping, travel can be, you know, your local transit, your travel can be, so I'm glad you said that because it doesn't have to be, we can never travel because we don't have $5 million to go to Paris with my family.

Cheryl

38:05

So there are lots of options from what you're even saying now. Travel is travel. We still call it travel. We can travel to camp.

Cheryl

38:13

We can travel and they know that.

Erica

38:16

Yeah, I think that's such a great point that travel in many ways is a mindset, right? It's being open to new experiences and putting yourself sometimes in uncomfortable situations. And you can, I mean, during COVID, a lot of us are traveling from our couches right taking that curiosity and yeah as in relation to accessibility I also just want to touch on the fact that there are A lot of resources available for people who might find travel challenging for a variety of reasons?

Erica

38:52

And so there are individuals hosting wheelchair travel experiences and There are places in airports and ways to move through airports so that people who are neuro-spicy have an easier time getting through them. There are, you know, museums and other sites that are now opening up to low stimulation times and theater experiences that are making it more accessible. So travel is for everybody and it doesn't have to be expensive And it doesn't have to be extra challenging because of physical or mental health issues any of us are dealing with.

Cheryl

39:42

I'm so glad you said that. And I know that we will share all of that stuff in this show notes so people have access to that. And so grateful that you talked on all of those points.

Cheryl

39:51

You're like the holy grail of travel. I just love it.

Erica

39:58

I just love it so much.

Cheryl

40:02

Like you said, travel is a mindset. And I know that even when we, you know, drive across the border to Myrtle Beach, somewhere in Toronto, if we drive to Myrtle Beach, or we drive somewhere to Michigan, whatever, even a road trip. Yes.

Cheryl

40:16

It's so funny how something triggers in my brain when we get in the car and the luggage is there and the snacks are there and the playlist is there and my brain says I couldn't be on the way to work but my brain says it's done like we're here we're traveling and I feel like I'm always in the moment. I'm always, I feel like we're having much more, I mean, we have great conversations at home, but the conversation changes and I don't even, can't even tell you what it is. It's just like, everything's gone. So if you're thinking, there's no way I can travel.

Cheryl

40:54

I can't afford it, I can't get there, and my son has special needs or my, whatever. You need to hook up with Erica because you have to travel. It's part of it's just part of an experience that if you've never done it you have to do it. And I have a funny story my parents and I I'm an only child so we traveled every year.

Cheryl

41:13

We went to Florida or Florida or whatever and when I turned 17 I think my parents thought that I was too cool. And I'd want to travel with my parents. So they said to me 1 day, so we know we planned a trip and we're going to go to Disney World, we're going to go to Orlando. And I was like, Oh, great.

Cheryl

41:30

When do we eat? And we're like, Oh, you're never planning this romantic week without me. I don't think so. Book them Dano.

Cheryl

41:42

I need another. And it wasn't until much later when I thought oh maybe this was like this romantic getaway without me for a change I blew it up.

Erica

41:58

Oh my goodness. Oh that's funny I bet they were touched that you wanted that. That's so sweet.

Cheryl

42:03

Well, I don't know if at the time.

Erica

42:06

Yeah. Well, I would also I'll just put in a shout out for family trips are amazing. But I also encourage people to try to get away for a solo trip every once in a while. And people who are partnered make time and space for that because it can be so good on all of the different fronts.

Erica

42:28

They're really different kinds of trips.

Cheryl

42:29

Yeah, yeah. Date night on steroids. Like you need to reconnect.

Cheryl

42:34

You really do. You need to reconnect. And even, you know, using the accessibility tips, you know, just taking 1 child or a mom and daughter trip or mom and son trip or like, those are the timers because everything else is over here the grocery list is here the dinner menu is here the bills are here like just do it those are the things you will always remember oh I love this conversation thank you so much again the holy grail erica forest Any last words before we have to sign off?

Erica

43:08

Sure. I'd be happy to see any of the listeners on my website, Tripp Scholars, and I've got a gift there where up at the top on the header that is all about different things that you could start doing today so that you can start learning more about your destination, kind of what we were talking about earlier, but much more fleshed out. So I'd love to see anybody there or I'm on all the social media channels at Tripp Scholars. And Carol, it was just such a nice,

Cheryl

43:41

nice question. 1 question, Airbnb, Verbo or hotel? What do you choose?

Erica

43:49

Usually Airbnb. But I know the impact on communities. But it is just so lovely to have, yeah, especially as a family, So nice to have a kitchen and separate bedrooms, just and to be right in the heart of a place.

Cheryl

44:08

This is it for me. Like we're going to Mexico in February, friends of ours have rented a house for 2 months and that's my, I don't know, my jam is like I'm going to be with local people, have local food, and I'm not going to be sold. And I'm not going to, you know, it's just going to be beautiful.

Cheryl

44:25

So I'm really excited.

Erica

44:26

So anyway, what do you use? I mean, I probably equally use all of those if I look at all of our travel. But AirBnB's

Cheryl

44:37

been about the last 2 or 3 years of our travels been AirBnB. The last few years we've done some big road trips down the East Coast here and just found the best AirBnB's. It's been so fun.

Erica

44:49

Yes. I'm so glad that you have gotten to stay in Airbnbs. We've gotten to stay houseboats in the Netherlands.

Cheryl

45:00

Oh, a whole new level.

Erica

45:02

So many fun places, right? Right in the heart of Paris. I mean, just amazing things.

Erica

45:08

On the beach in Crete, amazing.

Cheryl

45:11

Great, well, this has been beautiful. Thank you, thank you, thank you so much, Erica Forrest. Thank you for listening to Teen Minds Redefined.

Cheryl

45:18

Who knew there's a whole world out there that's accessible for everybody? Check out Erica Forrest. Thanks for listening. Thanks for stopping by and have a good flight.

46 min
April 30, 2024 #27 "Revolutionizing Education: Breaking Norms: Homeschooling & Unschooling Insights" with Efrat Amira
00:02 - 00:48
Cheryl: Teen Minds Redefined, you're listening to the podcast with Cheryl Pankhurst. Welcome to an episode of Teen Minds Redefine, where we redefine our relationships with our teens as we foster them and help them get out into this world as these amazing human beings living the life they wanna live. And today I have a beautiful guest, Afrat Amira. And so I want you to get ready to toss your traditional parenting playbook out the window because we're gonna dive headfirst into the world of Afrat where rules are meant to be broken. Join us as we uncover her journey from
00:48 - 01:20
Cheryl: conventional mom to homeschool guru. And this is a story every parent needs to hear. Welcome, Afret. Thank you so much, Cheryl. I'm so happy to be here. Yeah, I'm excited. I'm excited. You are a visionary host of a podcast as well, thought leader, homeschool advocate. So I think it's time for us to maybe explore some different ways to reimagine our parenting. And let's start with your story. Like what's your story? I think it's really
01:20 - 01:52
Efrat: important. Yeah, oh, I don't know how much back should I go, but generally, in general, I will try to make it short. So I'm Israeli, I come from Israel. We moved to the States 7 and a half years ago. We live in New Jersey right now. And when we moved to the States, I had a 2 and a half year old boy. And since then, I had 2 more boys. So I have 3 kids right now. They're almost 3, 6 and 10. I homeschooled them for the last 5 years. And this year they're going to an
01:52 - 02:35
Efrat: alternative education program which is basically a homeschooling co-op where we gather a few of us families together and we educate our kids in a way that we think that is right. We don't have any outside curriculum or anything that defines what we need to do. We just go with whatever we feel our kids actually need in order to thrive in this world and to live a fulfilling life. The journey to homeschooling was actually interesting because I never thought that I'm going to homeschool my kids when, you know, before I became a mom. And when I did
02:35 - 03:13
Efrat: become a mom, I send my child to a daycare when he was around a year old in Israel, which was fine. And I was working at the time. I was teaching in the Tel Aviv College and University. I was teaching sociology. I was sure that I'm going to pursue my PhD in sociology when I come to the U.S. When we moved here, I started doing the exams in order to get accepted to a, what I thought at the beginning that I wanted was to get accepted to an Ivy League college or a university. And I discovered
03:13 - 03:55
Efrat: pretty early that it's gonna be very hard for me because of the language barrier. I was okay in English, but not good enough in order to get accepted in 1 of those Ivy Leagues colleges. And also I got pregnant at the time. And when I really thought about it deeply, I understood that I don't want to live a really hectic career. I wanted to be with my kids. I wanted to be home with them. I wanted to raise them. And yeah, soon after, I met this lady that told me about the concept of unschooling. So she
03:55 - 04:35
Efrat: told me that she unschools her kids and I was like, what is that? What does that mean? So she said, well, basically, you live with your kids at home, they don't go to school, and they self-direct their own education. So you follow their interests, whatever they love to learn in the pace that they like to learn. You learn from living and doing by traveling to places, by going to the library, reading books, by playing outside and being outdoors, by meeting other friends. You just learn by living, basically. And I really, That was an aha moment for
04:35 - 05:11
Efrat: me and I really fell in love with this concept because I felt like the education system is not something that I really loved. And specifically the education system in the US is a very competitive 1. And kids in a very young age start to learn the ABCs and 123s. Like even when my son, when we moved here and my son was 2 and half, we signed them up to a preschool and they started teaching them the letters and the numbers and I was like, what? Why are you doing this so young? Because in Israel it's not
05:11 - 05:51
Efrat: like that. In Israel we only start around 8, 6 or 7 around first grade and up until then they're just free to play. So I really didn't like that and I thought that it's not benefiting my son at all. So this idea of keeping my kids home and unschooling them really seemed magical to me. And I dived into the literature and listened to a bunch of podcasts and I was really intrigued and I really want to try it for myself and for the kids. So I took my son out of school when he was 4 and
05:51 - 06:39
Efrat: a half and we just started this journey and it has been a very interesting 1 for sure. It hasn't been easy but I do feel that my kids have a lot of chance to be just who they are, to be children, to play a lot. My son now, he's 10 and he's very, very self-driven. He loves reading. He can read from the morning to night at any topic in the world. He loves cars. He's obsessed with cars actually. And he's dreaming of creating his own car company when he grows up. Yeah, so he's very ambitious and
06:39 - 07:14
Efrat: we're supportive of his dream, of course, and hopefully, you know, help him bring his dream to life. Whatever it will be, it will be that or something else, doesn't matter. But what I love about this approach is that we don't come with any preconceived notions of what our kids need to learn, how they need to be spending their days, what is the pace they need to be learning, when they need to learn how to read, when they need to learn how to write, what kind of, what math level they need to be at, at what age,
07:14 - 07:55
Efrat: and so on. We just follow their own interests and follow their pace and path and try to facilitate it as best as we can. So this year we did a change. So they're not home with me anymore. They went to this alternative education program, which I love because they also get a lot of that peer interaction that I felt was a little bit missing. Not because if you're home school, you don't get that a lot. You do get that a lot, but in the place specifically where I live right now, we live in like in a
07:55 - 08:28
Efrat: very remote area, so every time we need to meet friends is a drive, like 20-30 minute drive, And that just started to become too hard on me. So yeah, so I feel like now we have a good combination between following their interests, and giving them a lot of freedom to just be who they are and play and interact, but at the same time, interact with peers and their own age and have more of this like community sense rather than what we had before.
08:29 - 08:40
Cheryl: So What's the difference then? What's the difference between homeschool and unschool and co-op? What are the 3 differences there?
08:41 - 09:22
Efrat: Right. So homeschooling is a very wide definition of basically just educating your children at home. So inside the homeschooling world, there is 2 sides of, 2 ways, or 2 extremes. There is 1 extreme that is called the school at home, which you basically imitate whatever they're doing at school, but you did it at home, you have a desk, the kids sit and learn from this time to this time, they have tests. And they kind of just follow the norms, but in their house. And the other side of the spectrum, you will find the unschooling, or even
09:22 - 10:10
Efrat: there is the radical unschooling, where you follow the kids' interests, and you are the 1 that is facilitating their learning, but they are the 1 that is driving the car, basically. They are the ones that are deciding what they want to learn and how they want to learn. You are the observer, and you try to facilitate it by taking them to places, by providing materials that they need, by teaching them something that they want to learn by watching videos together, reading books together, whatever it is. And on top of that, there is the notion that whatever
10:10 - 10:46
Efrat: you do, just by living you are learning. So there isn't this separation between, okay, now you're sitting and learning because you're on a desk and you're reading a book or doing a workbook, and now you're outside playing or you're playing with friends, and that's not learning. So we see the whole experience of living as learning, even if we go to the supermarket together, they're learning, we go to the bank together, they're learning. Every opportunity in life, like from the moment that they wake up until the moment that you go to sleep, you're actually learning. So it's
10:46 - 10:53
Efrat: not like this black or white notion of, you know, when the kids are learning and when they're not.
10:54 - 10:56
Cheryl: Yeah, I loved that.
10:57 - 11:33
Efrat: It's a very interesting concept and I think pretty radical for many people. But if you think about it, kids are exactly like adults in the way that they learn. So think about yourself or, you know, people who are listening right now. If you're interested in something, you're gonna really want to learn and you're gonna dive into the books and you're gonna go to the museum and you're gonna Take that trip wherever it is and you're really gonna absorb that learning And if someone would have told you no, you're not supposed to learn this. Now you have
11:33 - 12:02
Efrat: to sit down and read this type of history. You need to practice this math, this type of math. Then he would say, what? Why? I want to learn this. This is what interests me. So children are not no different than us. They're actually more eager to learn because they don't have all the things that are stopping them from learning. They can just sit and learn and pursue their interests all day.
12:03 - 12:14
Cheryl: Okay, so when we talk about the basic skills, the literacy and numeracy skills, where do they get, like, where did your son learn to read? Like, how does that happen?
12:15 - 12:51
Efrat: That's a great question. So my son actually learned to read at a very like more, I want to say older on the older side of things. He learned to read only when he was 9 years old. And it's not because he wasn't capable. I think that his interest wasn't there yet before he was on. He wasn't really, he didn't really want to sit and learn and do, you know, do the work. On top of that, he was. A very, late speaker as well. Like he started to speak pretty late and he was by laying well. So
12:51 - 13:27
Efrat: I think that also had an impact on the time that he started to read. But I gave it a very long time to happen naturally. And many times it does happen naturally because kids, they just pick up on it by being read to and by seeing the letters and they start to ask questions and they're just curious because they want to learn how to read. I don't think that there is 1 person in our society that can grow up not learning how to read because this is just you have to have it in order to survive
13:27 - 14:05
Efrat: and thrive in our society. So I gave it a long period of time to happen naturally. And then I realized that he's having a bit of difficulty and I actually need to sit with him and teach him. So I, and he asked me, he asked me, can you teach me to read? I said, of course. So we found a book that was pretty easy. It was 10 minutes a day. And I started practicing with him, with the book. And after about a year, he started reading fluently. He's now, as I said in the beginning, he's an
14:05 - 14:38
Efrat: avid reader. He can just sit and read all day. And what I love about seeing his process is that I trusted him and I didn't put much pressure on reading and I waited until it was the right timing for him. So that now he just loves it because it's his choice. It's not something that I told him, you know, you have to say it every day to read for half an hour. No, I never, I would never say something like that to him. And he just chooses to do it, you know, and he reads whatever interests
14:38 - 15:00
Efrat: him. So it was just a very natural way of things that, you know, Why am I losing my words? It was just like a natural flow of things with him. And I'm really happy that it happened like that. Yeah.
15:01 - 15:29
Cheryl: So let's say, is there resources that parents go to to learn how to facilitate this still with kids? It's not like, I can't imagine my kids saying, okay, teach me math and me going, yeah, no. Reading maybe not math. So how do unschooling parents find those resources? Like, is there something out there? We're not just winging it.
15:30 - 16:09
Efrat: Yeah. Well, first of all, you can use all the resources. It's not that you are not allowed to use a curriculum. You can use a curriculum if that's what you want and that's what you need. There are no rules on what you need to do, what you can't do. It's just live and learn in the way that is right for you, for your family. And if your son, if your kid is someone that is really interested in learning through a curriculum, then great, that's going to work perfectly for them. But if your child is someone that
16:09 - 16:59
Efrat: is more into play-based learning, then you can adopt that. If your child likes to learn through watching YouTube's. That's okay too. Every way of learning is accepted, I want to say. There is no just 1 way of doing it. The key is to try to follow their way, try to understand what is their way of learning and what is the way that they love to learn. Because everyone is different. We have very different personalities. We have very different strength. And I want my kids to know that the way that they are is perfect, right? And I
16:59 - 17:11
Efrat: can help them, I can help by facilitating the way that they need to be in this world and not something that I decided in advance that they need to do or need to be on the way that they need to be.
17:11 - 17:19
Cheryl: Yeah which goes right into talk to me about Why not public school dropping
17:22 - 17:22
Efrat: them
17:22 - 17:44
Cheryl: off at a picking them up at 3 doing the homework for 2 hours? Why not now I've taught in the public school system for 25 years, and then the private school system for 3 years. So I have my own ideas of what I'm not appreciating. But what made you go, no, this is not for my kids?
17:45 - 18:29
Efrat: Yeah, well, when I was learning and teaching sociology, I have a master's in sociology. And 1 of the things that really opened my eyes to the education system is when I learned about the sociology behind the education system. And what the education system was built to do is basically prepare our kids to be workers in a factory, you know, and to prepare them to be good citizens of the state, which are both, I mean, we don't live in the era of factories anymore, but to prepare kids to be good citizens is not a bad thing to
18:29 - 19:18
Efrat: do, I want to say. But at the same time, I think that because our world is changing so rapidly, I don't think that I want 1 system to tell my kids what to think, not teach them critical thinking, that maybe the way that things have been done up until now is not the right way for everybody. And I think it's just, we are now questioning all our systems. All every system, every institute is being questioned right now. Whether it's the state, whether it's the medical institute, whether it's the educational Institute. And the reason why it's been
19:18 - 19:57
Efrat: questioned is because we have been able to look from outside the system. And the only way that we can change the world is by looking from outside and looking critically and ask if this is actually working for us anymore. So that's 1 aspect. The other aspect is that I feel like the things that they learn in school are just not really relevant anymore. You know, I have all the information I need on my phone right here on the computer. It's not something that is saved only for a small, you know, percentage of humans that can have
19:57 - 20:34
Efrat: access to education. Everybody has access to all the information in the world in the palm of their hands right now. So I don't think that necessarily people need to learn a specific type of geography, a specific type of history, a specific type of science. I mean, there is so much out there, you know? Yeah. So why should we all learn exactly the same thing at exactly the same pace? I don't know. It just doesn't make any sense to me anymore. And I do, I really feel that our kids, I mean, I'm sorry that maybe that can
20:34 - 21:06
Efrat: be a little hard for some people to hear, but I really feel that kids are kind of wasting their time there because they're sitting all day at a desk learning something that they didn't choose to learn. And are they really taking it in? Are they? I mean, if they finished high school doesn't mean that they know history doesn't mean that they know geography doesn't mean that they know science does they mean that that they that they're good readers doesn't mean that they're good writers? What does it mean? It just means that they went to class, they
21:06 - 21:47
Efrat: were in the class. That's a objective fact that we know, but what they actually took out of it, we don't know. And I think about myself, I was a very mediocre student, and I did the minimum in order to just pass the test. And I studied more deeply, I studied chemistry. And my mom just came to visit and she's a chemist herself. And she bought the periodic table for my son. And I'm looking at the periodic table and I'm like I don't remember anything of this you know although I did like deeper learning of that subject
21:47 - 22:15
Efrat: in school, I don't remember anything. I don't remember so much of the things that I learned because I just wasn't interested in it. So I feel like it's kind of a waste of their time and each 1 of them have their own gifts to give to the world. So why do they have to be confined to a classroom, to a place that tells them how they need to be and what they need to be, what they need to learn. I don't know, it just doesn't make any sense to me anymore in the world that we are
22:15 - 22:17
Efrat: living right now. And that makes
22:17 - 23:01
Cheryl: sense to me. And when you even say, originally it was to teach our kids to be good citizens, is it, or is it teaching kids to conform to be the citizens that we want them to be when they leave. Yeah, that is, I think a big shift rate, like maybe for years, but a big shift for me to think now that I'm outside of it, thinking, yeah. And, You know, we have all these different learners. And although we talk about differential education, do we really differentiate for our different learners? There's still 26 desks in a room.
23:01 - 23:39
Cheryl: The blinds are still closed. They go out to play. They separate like you were talking about playing and learning. They separate their playtime from their learning time. And as adults, don't we want to love what we do so much that you really can't tell the difference between our work and our play and life is so short. Like I don't wanna, like getting out of those 4 walls of this is what I need to do between 8 and 5. And then, I can't wait for the weekend. I can't wait for this. I'm like, when I think about
23:39 - 24:19
Cheryl: it now, like it took me even probably a few Sundays to realize, oh, I don't have that Sunday night stomach. Yeah. I'm just, and I'm still working. I'm putting in more hours now than I did my 10 hours of day of teaching and marking and all of that. But now I feel like I'm playing. This is so good. And yet, do we want our kids to be able to do that? 100%. So can we talk about the misconceptions of homeschooling and unschooling? Like What are the things you're hearing? What are the skeptics saying that you can
24:19 - 24:20
Cheryl: kind of debunk?
24:20 - 24:30
Efrat: Yeah, I think 2 things that come in mind right now with the socialization part. Yep. And applying to college part, getting into college.
24:30 - 24:32
Cheryl: Both questions I have down here, go.
24:32 - 25:18
Efrat: Right. Yes. So let's start with the socialization. Just such a hard word to say. So actually socialization, what it means, it means teaching kids the norms. That's what it means. Socializing is a different word. It's a different, it's socializing is getting together with people no matter what age, right? It doesn't have to be exactly the kids your age, But getting together in the world with people, learning to communicate, learning to solve conflict, you know, all those things. Socialization is something that they get in school because they are learning the norms of the society. But they don't
25:18 - 25:56
Efrat: really socialize because what they do, they actually sit next to each other. Okay, that's fine, but they're not allowed to talk during class. They're just supposed to sit and listen. They are socializing when they go out to break, right, and to recess. Unfortunately, recess time has been cut off over more and more and more in recent years. So they don't even have that much of a time to socialize. And also something else that is happening is that they don't let them really do whatever they want during the recess because sometimes even that is adult led. What
25:56 - 26:40
Efrat: they need to do in recess is adult led. So I don't see really socializing happening in regular school actually. Whereas in homeschooling, the kids socialize all the time because when we get together with friends, the kids just play freely and they do whatever they want. I don't know if all families are like that but in our community for certain what happens is us moms sit and talk and the kids are just playing and that can be for hours outside, many times outside. And they just learn how to socialize, you know, by socializing, by actually being with
26:40 - 27:19
Efrat: other kids. And there isn't a lot of structure to it. I feel like for people who go to the mainstream education system, many times also go to the mainstream sports and after school activities. So their kids are managed all day long. They go to school, they finish school, they go to after school, they go to the sports, they do the homework. So all their day is managed from morning to evening and they don't have even a little bit of time to just be and to actually hang out with friends, which is so crucial. So that's 1
27:19 - 27:56
Efrat: aspect that I think it's a huge misconception about the aspect of socialization. The other 1 is applying to college. That's a really interesting 1, because I feel like that is a big fear for parents. And I think that fear is based on a notion that has been ingrained in our heads about like probably 20 years ago, when actually people thought that if you go to college, it means that you're gonna have a successful life. And if you go to a better college, it means that you're gonna have a better career. That's just not the reality anymore.
27:57 - 28:41
Efrat: On the 1 hand, and on the other hand, getting into those Ivy League colleges where everyone is that, people think about sending their kids to those Ivy Leagues college since they are 3 years old. They're determining their future for them. And it's put so much academic pressure on the kids. And that leads to so much anxiety. The anxiety rates among teenagers specifically is raising like crazy these years. And I actually have an episode about this in my podcast where I talk about the academic pressure and the toll that it has on the kids. But more than
28:41 - 29:23
Efrat: that, the chances of kids to get accepted to these schools is much lower than it once was. So it's even more pressure on them. Yeah. But more than that, you know, what those schools are actually looking for nowadays are not those people who were able to jump through the hoops. They don't want those A-plus students who just did what they have been told all the years and who are basically like everybody else. Because If you're just going to the school, doing the sports, doing the after school activities, and you're trying to jump through the hoops and
29:25 - 30:02
Efrat: just check the boxes that you need to check, then you're supposedly supposed to be able to go into a great college. But actually what the colleges are telling us these days is that they're looking for unique people. They're looking for people that know who they are and what they want and that apply to the college because that is something that they have been dreaming of and this is something that will fulfill their specific dream. They're not just going to the college because this is something that everybody does. This is a dream of their parents. It's actually
30:02 - 30:25
Efrat: part of their life path. And how do they know that? They know that because they did something that is special when they were teens. And Actually, when you get when you're homeschooled over your unschooled, you have the opportunity to do that something special because you have much more time, you can do whatever you want with your time.
30:25 - 30:26
Cheryl: Yeah.
30:26 - 31:14
Efrat: And there is a very high rate of unschoolers and homeschoolers that get accepted into those colleges. And not only that they get accepted to the colleges, they actually finish the college. And There are not a lot of dropping rates because the kids went to learn something that they know that they want. It's not something that they just went to because everybody else is doing the same thing. They know what they want. They're very eager to learn it. And from what research shows us is that they actually feel that they're much more mature than their peers in
31:14 - 31:21
Efrat: the school because they're in like a different mindset than them. They're there to learn.
31:21 - 31:52
Cheryl: They want to be there to learn. They're not there to party or to get away from their parents because it's not what they're, it's not their thing. They have given the freedom all their lives. So they're not looking for freedom right now. Yes, what a great point. So is there a different, like logistically, is there a different application process? Because I know coming out of high school in grade 12 we start submitting the marks and it just goes, they're just like a piece of paper and numbers. So is it a different process to apply?
31:53 - 32:32
Efrat: It's not a different process. You can do all the exams that you need at home. And you can apply, you can fill up the applications just exactly as all the other like the regular school kids do. There are also another way that many homeschoolers do it is they do community college. So they get points from community college like when they're 15 or 16 or 17 they can start learning and then that helps them apply then to the colleges. Interesting. Yeah, so that is 1, that's another route that kids can take, but it's completely possible, It's even
32:32 - 32:51
Efrat: easier because I understand that some of the exams that the regular kids do, they don't have to do. So it's even, I think that it's even an easier process for them. I mean, it's not that it's easier, if there is less things that
32:51 - 32:59
Cheryl: they need to do. And where do they communicate that special thing they've done? Where do they communicate that on an application?
33:00 - 33:17
Efrat: So in the application, there are the, you know, the standard of the, the, grays and everything. But then there is also a big part where the, the child needs to write about himself and about their interests and about, you know, what they did and what they're hoping to get out of the college. So that's
33:17 - 33:28
Cheryl: the part where they communicate that. And do you know personally kids who have now come out of that program, a college program from homeschooling and schooling?
33:29 - 34:04
Efrat: I hear a lot of podcasts. I don't know personally, but I follow a lot of podcasts that talk about these type of things. So I heard numerous of stories of students or kids who have been, you know, accepted to those colleges. And it's also like I feel how like I don't want this whole conversation to be about it get being accepted to college because I feel like that is also something that we need to open our mind to. We need to understand that.
34:04 - 34:05
Cheryl: 100% yes.
34:05 - 34:41
Efrat: Right, it's not about getting accepted to college, it's about like we said in unschooling, if this curriculum specifically is something that is good for what you want, it's something that will help you pursue your goal, then great, go for it. The same thing, if applying to college and to this specific college is what's going to help you, you know, Get your dreams come true, make your dreams come true. Of course, go to that. But if not, that's fine also, you know, there are so many different ways that you can be successful in life. You can live
34:41 - 34:55
Efrat: a fulfilling life. You don't have to go into this specific route. There are so many other options out there that are open to anybody. And college is not for everybody. It's just not. 100%.
34:55 - 35:28
Cheryl: And I was going down this path because when I hear, like in my career, hear parents talk about, well, that closes that door and that closes that door. I bring this to the table because there are no closed doors, no matter what you do, homeschooling, unschooling, We're not closing any doors. Okay, so here's my question now. I'm a mom, I want to unschool, but I have a job. Now what? What am I doing? Yeah, it's a great question.
35:28 - 36:01
Efrat: First of all, I think most of your audience are parents of teens, right? Right. And that's actually the best, the best, the best age to unschool because it's not like you have little ones at home that you have to attend to all the time and you can't work. You can actually work and they can have their life also. You don't have to be with them all the time. You really don't. They can be at home, you can drive them to places and work from there. And if you have that flexibility, they can determine their own schedule.
36:02 - 36:34
Efrat: You don't have to be on top of them at all. Actually when when they get to their teen years it's best if you have your own career because then you also know how to pursue your interest, right? You're learning yourself how to pursue your interest, to live a fulfilling life. And the only way that we can guide our kids to live a fulfilling life is by doing it ourselves. And it really is not gonna be helpful for us to just, be on top of them all the time. We need to let them have the freedom and
36:34 - 36:37
Efrat: explore and trust them in their process.
36:38 - 36:44
Cheryl: Oh, I love that. I love that. And so is there, talk to me about now, about
36:45 - 36:45
Efrat: Is there
36:45 - 36:55
Cheryl: a community of unschooling where we can access and tap in and, you know, I have to go to work today. Can you like, is there that sort of opportunity?
36:56 - 37:46
Efrat: Yeah, yeah, there is a huge community of homeschooling, Some of them unschooling. There is also a lot of homeschoolers. In every place, in every state, in every country, if you look on Facebook, you will definitely find your homeschooling or unschooling group. There are also a lot of online resources that people can tap into. For teens specifically, there are great programs. I'm trying to think of the name of it. 1 program is called Liberated Learners. It's a program for teens and basically they have a space where they can gather and there are facilitators there. So adults that
37:46 - 38:19
Efrat: are just there in the space and they just spend their day the way that they want to, you know, they pursue their own projects, they cooperate with each other, they learn whatever they want, but they just have the space that they can come to and be there during the day. So that's 1 great resource to look at. And there are others. I can send you a few links after the show and so you can attach to this episode as well. That's great. And that answered my question. That's that's amazing.
38:21 - 38:36
Cheryl: Okay, so where can we find you? How can I support you? I love this message. I love that. There are other opportunities. And I think you really just answered the questions instead of like me saying,
38:36 - 38:36
Efrat: oh, well, I work full time.
38:36 - 39:12
Cheryl: I can't, I don't know math, I can't. I, you know, and I love the fact that we can teach our kids just by watching us do what we wanna do and do what we love and see what we're like when we're doing what we love as opposed to when we get home from work and we're grumpy and miserable complaining about our day. What a shift like, oh geez, mom's doing that. Maybe I can do that. Like, let's do that instead of waiting till you're 50 and then changing careers because you've been locked in this conformed situation
39:13 - 39:18
Cheryl: where you thought you had to go. This just opens the flood gates. And I love that, Afra. Thank you for sharing that
39:18 - 39:55
Efrat: with us. You're welcome. Yeah, it's so liberating and it just, it's so freeing. And it's, you know, when you follow your own dreams and live a life of fulfillment, you're gonna be a better mom. You're gonna be a better human. You're gonna want to connect with them more because you're just, you know, you're happy with what you're doing. So yeah, that's, I feel like that's what we need to, we need to focus on ourselves And they will focus on themselves. Every person has a drive to fulfill their own purpose. And we need to trust that.
39:56 - 40:13
Cheryl: And honor that. Because that's exactly where you know, I talk about on pretty well every episode I do. We need to do our work. So they see what that looks like. And they're always watching us. They're not always listening to us, but they are always watching us.
40:13 - 40:14
Efrat: Yeah, they are.
40:14 - 40:19
Cheryl: Yeah. So where can we find you? How can we work with you? What are all the good things?
40:19 - 40:41
Efrat: Yeah, so you can follow my podcast, which is called alternative parenting. I also have a Facebook group under the same name. And I have an Instagram account where I post about the podcast episodes. It's called Alternative Parenting Coach. Yeah. And I'll send you all the links also for that. Excellent.
40:41 - 40:47
Cheryl: Excellent. Thank you for the work you're doing. Thank you for sharing it with us, Afrat. This was wonderful. Thank you
40:47 - 40:48
Efrat: for listening.
40:48 - 41:15
Cheryl: Yeah, our pleasure. Thank you for checking out Teen Minds Redefined, another episode, and so grateful you're listening. See you later. Teen Minds Redefined with Cheryl Pankhurst. New episodes out every Wednesday. Thanks for stopping by. Thanks for watching!
42 min
April 23, 2024 #26 "Empowering Youth Through Performing Arts Mindset" with Christina Walker
00:15 - 00:55
Speaker Cheryl1: Welcome to another episode of Teen Minds Redefined. Today we have a beautiful guest, Christina Walker, and I'm going to tell you a little bit about her before we dive in. Christina is a dynamic force in the world of vocal performance, coaching, and youth education. With over 2 decades of experience as a private vocal performance coach, Christina has honed her craft to perfection, guiding aspiring performers towards their full potential. As the CEO of Practice, Polish, Perform, a cutting-edge virtual training program tailored for young performers, Christina is at the forefront of revolutionizing the youth performing arts industry. Her
00:55 - 01:41
Speaker Cheryl1: innovative approach integrates the essential elements of practice, polish and performance, empowering her students to excel on stage and beyond. But Christina's influence extends far beyond vocal technique. She is a pioneer in performing arts mindset, education recognizing the importance of mental fortitude and resilience in the pursuit of artistic excellence. Through her visionary leadership, Christina is reshaping the landscape of youth performing arts, instilling confidence, discipline, and a growth mindset in her students. Beyond her professional achievements, Christina is a devoted mother of 4, ranging from 16 to 20. Her experiences as a parent provide her with a unique perspective,
01:41 - 02:03
Speaker Cheryl1: allowing her to connect deeply with both her students and their families. Christina is based in the vibrant city of Dallas, Texas. She brings a blend of passion, expertise, and warmth to everything she does. Join us as we delve into the world of vocal performance and youth empowerment with the remarkable Christina Walker. Welcome, welcome, welcome.
02:04 - 02:09
Speaker 2Christina: Thank you. Thank you for that beautiful introduction. I completely appreciate that. It's beautiful. Thank you.
02:09 - 02:48
Speaker Cheryl1: I've got to do you right. I have been really doing some research on you. And of course, as I tell most of my guests, I don't normally look at anything except energy. And as we are both in these different Facebook groups to promote ourselves and our podcasts and to get our message out there, You just are able to kind of get an energy from somebody and it isn't until I start, I reach out, I ask, let's do this, and then I do the research and I'm like, oh, this girl's a pretty big deal. So that's awesome.
02:48 - 02:55
Speaker Cheryl1: Good for you. I would love to know, is there anything in there that I didn't say that you would love to share?
02:55 - 03:32
Speaker 2Christina: Oh, well, 1 thing I love that you did include is that that I work well with the families of the performers. You know so much about raising a teenager or youth, whether they're in the performing arts or it's just, you know, an athlete, whatever realm it is, is the family unit, whatever that looks like. Our teenagers have some, they have adult figures who are helping to guide them. And I love that you highlighted that, because that is something that's really strong in my heart and that I do in my private studio is as I create those
03:32 - 03:55
Speaker 2Christina: connections with the teenagers and their parents and or whomever that figure is in their life and in their world, because it's such a big deal how we can help steer our teenagers. And the rise and fall sometimes of their teen years can greatly be influenced by the adults and by the family unit. And so I like that you highlighted that not everyone not everyone looks at it that way and so I
03:55 - 04:28
Speaker Cheryl1: love that you found that 1. Well it's funny when I'm talking to people or even thinking about topics for my podcast it always seems to go I find a way like III think oh this would be great for because it doesn't matter if you're teaching a kid you have a kid in your life you have a sibling it doesn't matter you are somehow in some way connected to a kid. And kids, and I, and I speak mainly of teenagers, because that's who I've always worked with, need that caring adult. And it doesn't matter who it is,
04:28 - 04:48
Speaker Cheryl1: they need a caring adult in the world. And like, that's been forever, but I feel like even more desperately now. So it's wonderful that you're out there and so I guess I want to start with what brought you to this like what in your journey said this is what I need to do. Tell me about that.
04:49 - 05:25
Speaker 2Christina: Well, I moved into teaching private vocal. I taught in the school systems for a little bit after I graduated college, and then soon moved into just the private instruction, the private coaching, and I really adored it. But what moved me into beginning to pioneer performing arts mindset in our youth and in our performers is I noticed in my coaching studio and with my teens, with my youth, whomever I'm coaching, I always would wrap into it the the mindset aspect of performing, you know because if you if you think of it as we as we prepare to
05:25 - 05:53
Speaker 2Christina: perform and I know some of minutes many of your audience might not be in the performing arts or have kids some of them might be but all of it is connected and relatable. So just kind of translate some of this because it's just so it overlaps so much. But so much about performing is we can train our techniques, we get our memory, we get all prepared. You know, think of people, let's say they're a student going for a presentation or something that's not in the arts or an athlete going to a game. You put in the
05:53 - 06:27
Speaker 2Christina: practice, you learn your plays, you put in all the conditioning, and then you have the moment where you're on stage, on the field, in the classroom, wherever that is, there's that moment where we'll call the stage and they can't strengthen the practice. And what you've learned is learned. Your workout is done. You know, as you're taking your tests, you can't restudy. It's right there, you're in the moment. And the biggest factor that interjects into our performance, whether it's excellent, whether we're pleased with it or not, 1 of the biggest factors is how our mindset begins to
06:27 - 06:58
Speaker 2Christina: handle the pressure of that moment that we're in, right? And so if that mindset hasn't been trained to be ready to handle the weight of the moment, think of these, you know, these, I watched, all my kids are athletes, none of them are in the performing arts. So I was like, what, what is this? You know, So I'm 1 of those parents who have to find coaches and other adults to help me help my kids. But I watch these high school athletes even or college athletes. And if you think of them on these big, big screens,
06:58 - 07:35
Speaker 2Christina: big stadiums, they're 18 years old and the pressure of the weight that they have in that moment, how their mindset has been trained is going to be a determining factor of their result. And so, I really over the years of teaching began to see the success of the high level or not so high level of performers and how it really connected with the mindset training that I was able to give them and start with. And so to finish up the question, I'm sorry, please feel free to interject. You know, go, go. So I started, I've always
07:35 - 08:05
Speaker 2Christina: kind of done that because it was a big deal for me. I could tell the story of how I had to break through back in college, but I started to kind of look out and see what's available for our youth performers to train their mindset. And they're really, even now, there really isn't much at all if you Google it. It's just so, so little is training the mindset. And it was a heart cry, it kind of broke my heart because I'm thinking it's such a big deal. Not just for the stage, but just for life, to
08:05 - 08:17
Speaker 2Christina: know that pressure moments come, they happen, whether you're going home and you know there's a conversation that you're about to have with that parent or someone in the home, it's a pressure, it's something's coming, it's your stage,
08:17 - 08:18
Speaker Cheryl1: and
08:18 - 08:44
Speaker 2Christina: you're about to step onto that stage of the conversation. And if you can have a mindset plan in place, it really helps to diffuse things before they happen, to help you get in control of yourself. And so that's why I developed the road to the stage lessons that I've released to help performers to train their mindset. So that's,
08:44 - 09:22
Speaker Cheryl1: I guess, a short version. You know, I love that and I can almost immediately connect it to many of the conversations I've had with other guests where we have said if you are able to practice or rehearse those really difficult conversations before you have them, not only can you hear what you sound like, not only can you remove the fluff that you don't need, but it also allows you to not have as much of the emotion If you're really having, you know, you're talking to your kid about vaping or sex or drugs and you're, you know,
09:22 - 09:53
Speaker Cheryl1: if it's an instant conversation, you're heightened and you're, and then you're walking away going, Oh my God, I don't know what the hell I just said. Whereas if you had some practice before the stage, like I felt looking at all of all of the work that you do, there was all these metaphors for me. I'm like, oh my god, there's this, there's this, there's this, there's this. It was great. So tell me how Even the teenager, let's talk about your 3 Ps first. Let's talk about how you work that in and what they actually mean.
09:54 - 10:30
Speaker 2Christina: Yeah, yeah. So Practice Polish Perform is the name of the company. And then I have the trainings that fit underneath that. And it's specifically designed to train the performing arts mindset and that technique. So I do have a private studio where I coach vocalists, singers, actors, dancers, well not dancers actually that's mindset, but speakers. So that's a different leg of what I do than what we're talking about. I just like to differentiate because sometimes I'll get requests right away about private lessons and and this is more of it's more of the lane of the group and
10:30 - 11:06
Speaker 2Christina: here's content that's for you. So practice, polish, perform is the 3 steps that I like to integrate into preparing for performance or for that moment. And it's we practice, we polish something and we perform it before you perform it. And that's that number 3 is a big step because that's 1 that a lot of people never really do in the well they don't do maybe not do as well in the performing arts where we obviously we practice and then step 1 you you get your techniques you get your memory you you know if you're if you're
11:06 - 11:39
Speaker 2Christina: preparing a presentation, you write your presentation, you do your research, you get your drafts, you get all that, the practice, the technical aspect of it is going on. On top of all of that, or I'm actually put it under here, underneath all of that is the foundation of mindset. The mindset interweaves itself under everything we do as we prepare. And that's my P3 mindset method. And I can I can teach our audience that if we want to? So the mindset is going constantly. So as we practice and we learn our techniques and we learn the breathing,
11:39 - 12:13
Speaker 2Christina: we learn different things. That's that's the practice part. And when we have we feel like we have that piece pretty strong. We have our draft really written, the English teacher has approved it, you know, or whatever. Then we go into this polishing phase of our performance piece of what's about to come. We go into the polishing phase and that's where we take everything that we've done and we shine it up really good. And this is where I insert specific memory techniques, things that we might think something's memorized and under pressure, we find that it's not. You
12:13 - 12:15
Speaker 2Christina: know, has that ever happened to you? All
12:15 - 12:15
Speaker Cheryl1: the time.
12:15 - 12:51
Speaker 2Christina: Happened to me too and that's why I was like, how am I going to handle this? So, what I like to do in the polishing phase as I have the mindset, I like to apply pressure to the things that we think we have, we feel like it's set. So, like I just put this free, it's a free checklist on my website, theroadtothestage.com and you can get this free checklist. And so during my polishing phase, and it's about 9 pages, but we apply pressure to your memory. So there's a technique like I think it's memorized. Let's see,
12:51 - 13:25
Speaker 2Christina: you know, and there's a practice technique for that, so we apply pressure to the memory, to the nervous aspect. I need to simulate nerves so that I know how I'm going to react when I'm actually nervous, right? Yes. Yeah, just imagine, just think through, think through the auditions or the times, you know, you've been on camera, any of our adults listening where you've, you show up at the moment and the nerves kick in. Just think about how powerful it would have been if you could have kind of simulated that feeling. Because the feeling, all of a
13:25 - 13:59
Speaker 2Christina: sudden it's a new feeling and you think, I thought I was ready, but now I have nerves, now I feel shaky, now I can't breathe as deeply, Now my focus is not quite on. Imagine if we could have created that before we're in the moment. Then when it comes, it's almost like a, I'm ready for this. I know how to do this, you know. So, during that polishing phase, I do, we put pressure on those type of things. So, and it's the memory with pressure on the nerves, on the focus, on the flow, and then on
13:59 - 14:31
Speaker 2Christina: the mindset. The focus is, you know, as performers, 1 of the things we do not know, you know, what's going to happen, I call them performance unknowns. So, you're in the moment of performing, you know, whatever it is, your monologue or whatever it is, And just everyone who's listening, think about the times you've been in an audience, right? We've been in an audience and someone drops their keys or a little child laughs or whatever. It's an unknown, it pops up. The performer, we see it and we hear all of it. But as a performer, we have
14:31 - 15:07
Speaker 2Christina: to lock in and appear as if we don't hear it, as if our brain's not processing it, right? We've got to stay on track with our presentation in the boardroom or whatever, even though, you know, the guy over there, he just spilled his coffee. We have to stay locked in. So during the polishing phase, applying pressure to your focus, creating distractions that are going on while you're trying to perform your piece or deliver your presentation. Are you able to, does it distract your memory? Does it break your flow? And you can train your mindset to be
15:07 - 15:46
Speaker 2Christina: ready for the fact that that's gonna happen. So, and then as you asked the three-step process, practice, polish, and then perform. I strongly urge, I always want my students to perform their piece before their big moment, if at all possible. Whether that's a small group in here, like with a master class, whether you, you zoom in grandma and say, okay, she has a performance and make it a real professional experience, something to create a little bit of the nerves and perform and not stop, go all the way through and push yourself through it. We do that
15:46 - 16:01
Speaker 2Christina: and then we step onto stage. And students feel so much more empowered and ready to handle the unknowns, the performance energy, the nerves, and with that method of training.
16:02 - 16:36
Speaker Cheryl1: That's amazing. And as you're going through this, I'm picturing myself, I was a supervisor of a huge department. So it meant big meetings all the time. And then it meant presenting to a full staff. And 25 years, I shook, I was sweating. Every single time I knew my stuff it didn't matter and as soon as I stood up I would completely blank out and then I would sit down and go oh I forgot to do this and I forgot to do this and I forgot to do this and I was talking too fast. And it never
16:36 - 17:11
Speaker Cheryl1: ended. So I really think anything like what you're offering would be so valuable. And it wouldn't, I would almost think that the vocal part of it is secondary, because it could be for anything like my brain is going to I work with special needs kids forever and I'm thinking social anxiety when kids actually have to do a presentation or go for a job interview or go for a college or university interview like all of what you're offering here is like wow bingo this is so so needed that's amazing
17:11 - 17:12
Speaker 2Christina: wow
17:12 - 17:28
Speaker Cheryl1: and then I was listening sorry to your performance and I know on the video I was watching you talked about post performance. I feel like that's your fourth P. What is your what is the post performance mean? What do we do with that? I'm
17:28 - 18:00
Speaker 2Christina: glad that you asked. I love that you like you've done your research and you've you've picking up these things post performance I was talking to a student last night about it. In fact in my in my private studio every month We have I have a mindset power phrase That every student has the same mindset power phrase as my studio. And every lesson we say it together, I talk a little bit about it. And this month is, this month is, I started at the beginning of the week. So I just started this this month. I am the
18:00 - 18:07
Speaker 2Christina: performer, I control the performance. That's such a, man I could teach for an hour on that.
18:07 - 18:09
Speaker Cheryl1: Sugars. Oh yeah, yeah.
18:09 - 18:41
Speaker 2Christina: It's a big deal, oh my goodness. And you know anyone could put that, you know, I, that you can replace performer with something. I think about our teens walking the hallways at school and just how you know just a look maybe a negative look or someone perceives it to be a negative look and they begin to start sinking on the inside. I am the performer. I control the performance. I can control how I react to that thought. I don't even know if they're intending But my thoughts about to seek me let's shift it. I can control
18:41 - 19:14
Speaker 2Christina: this but anyway Get to your p number 4 so I was telling all my performers, there's 3 moments of mindset. There's pre-performance, that's before you're on stage. There's peak performance when you're in the moment, like when you said you were fine and then you step up to your presentation and you started to feel all this you're in the peak performance time and there's a way that we do certain things to train for that and then the post performance. Post performance is when you walk off of the stage whatever stage you're is walk off of the game
19:14 - 19:50
Speaker 2Christina: field off of the court off of the classroom out of the job interview post performance starts from the moment you're done and you leave. For about 24 hours, there is this, I like to use the analogy of cement, of wet cement. You know, we've seen, you know, the little handprints that you put in the cement when it's wet and the little thing, sign your name or whatever. And then once it's dried, it's locked. It's there. Right after a performance, Think about it. Our bodies can get nervous, and just because you're nervous, it doesn't mean you're going
19:50 - 20:21
Speaker 2Christina: to mess up, and it does not mean you have stage fright. I'm a real big, it does not mean you have stage fright. Nerves happen because adrenaline is released, these hormones, cortisol, and it raises, it's that fight or flight response feeling. And we can determine how strong that is with something I call how we label things and it's in my in my program. You can actually determine how that feels. So we have all this released, we walk off stage and you know that your body almost feels like you're about to, you know, that feeling, it's just
20:21 - 20:50
Speaker 2Christina: because all of it is kind of finishing. But during about 24 hours is so important because your memory is like, it's like wet cement and what you tell yourself about the performance you just had is going to, it's just like the memory is just so, it's so pliable. It goes in there like a handprint and then after a little bit it almost locks into your memory and I'll get to this but it sets you up for the next time
20:50 - 20:52
Speaker Cheryl1: you know. It's going to set
20:52 - 21:22
Speaker 2Christina: it up because it comes back right those feelings that have locked come back. So I tell my singers and my performers I say you know when you step off stage so many people are perfectionists especially in the arts. We're taught to be that way, you know, nail your audition, all this kind of stuff. And we're all like that. So some people could give phenomenal auditions and performances, they can nail it, but There's that 1 thing they wanted to do and they didn't. You know, and they, whether they're, so they have great performance, they step off stage
21:22 - 21:52
Speaker 2Christina: and their whole focus is that 1, that 1 expression where they didn't, you know, do something that they planned. And so instead of focusing on all this positive, they're zoned in on, man, I cannot believe I worked so hard, I didn't do it. And that cement, we're putting an impression. And just think about this, in a month or so, when they think back to this performance, or even as they think back about it, what is, what are they going to remember? Everything they got right, or they're going to think and they're going to start to sink.
21:53 - 22:22
Speaker 2Christina: I can't believe I forgot that. I'm going to forget it next time too. What, how can I, you know, I plan it, but I never do it? So, all of that is like, it's locked. And then, you know, as adults, we understand that we have to go back and unravel all that mess. Yeah. Because we didn't handle it right then and then sometimes a performance is a mess sometimes sometimes the presentation doesn't go well it's the same idea we walk off stage we have to be really aware and so many just I think don't understand this
22:22 - 22:52
Speaker 2Christina: process about I really need to be aware and find, I asked my performers, tell me 3 things that you did really good. I want what's 3 targets that you hit? And sometimes it's easy, and sometimes they'll say it through tears because it was such a like, it wasn't what they wanted it to be, or I didn't know the auditions, but I said, we're gonna find, you did more than 3 things, but I need you out of your own mouth to say and tell me and tell yourself because our brains believe more of what we hear ourselves
22:52 - 23:21
Speaker 2Christina: say, right? So we do that and then after about 24 hours, you know, that cement has started to harden and we framed it as best as we can, it's like a picture frame, we've framed it as best as we can, it's like a picture frame, we've we framed it as best as we can as positive, then let's go back to it and say, okay, what are 3 things that we could do differently next time? What are 3 targets we want to hit? Because the the height has settled, The adrenaline and cortisol are beginning to calm down.
23:21 - 23:40
Speaker 2Christina: And now we can look at it with less of the emotional entanglement and be more like practical and empowering, like, okay, yeah, those were some mistakes and this is what I'm going to do differently. So that's the post performance. I love that you asked about it. No 1 ever asked about that part, but it's huge. Well, even as you're saying
23:40 - 24:16
Speaker Cheryl1: it, I just finished telling you I spent 25 years ending every presentation going all the things I did wrong. And so it set me up for the next month and the next month and the next 25 years because I didn't have that skill. And I think that is something that parents can somehow or any kind of caring adult in a kid's world, can somehow build that into anything the kid was worried about. They went to a party they shouldn't have gone to. Well, what decisions did you make that were good decisions? Like, that can go anywhere.
24:16 - 25:03
Speaker Cheryl1: I just, I love that that's such a life skill. It's it's yeah and that the whole analogy about the cement is just it's perfect. It's exactly easy to to understand. Oh that that's very cool. So I want to talk about the whole creative, the arts, all of that, because I think we sometimes put our kids into categories and you know we put them into, well they're either jocks or they're musicians or they're artists or they're science and math. And that's where we're putting them and that's where they're staying. And I think being a creative, everyone has
25:03 - 25:17
Speaker Cheryl1: creative skills, everyone has them. And I mean, both of my kids are very creative, both very, very musically talented, skipped a complete generation. I can't play spoons. I don't
25:17 - 25:19
Speaker 2Christina: know where they get it from. But
25:19 - 25:50
Speaker Cheryl1: the important thing is and it's taking me years to even figure out that I have a creative side that I really and here I am creating podcasts like we have to we have to have a mindset shift I think. So can you talk about the importance of building the arts or some kind any kind of arts like that I'm not talking about just vocal performance but any kind of art building it into our kids lives and strengthening and fostering that as well as all the other things we want them to be skilled at.
25:50 - 26:26
Speaker 2Christina: Yeah, yeah, sure. I love that. Because the arts is such a, the arts act, the arts act, activates a different part as, as many of us know, a different part of our brain. And I think it just activates a different part of our emotions, you know. And I think it's so important that the youth, whatever lane they're running in, that they have that flowing in their lives. And so how you know how can parents do that? Some parents aren't aren't musical, aren't in the arts at all, though they might enjoy and love music. You know, I
26:26 - 26:59
Speaker 2Christina: something you'll hear in our home if you come in, there's there's always music going and I just love it. But it sets a mood, doesn't it? Like for dinner now, my kids will, for dinner, they're so funny. They'll come down for dinner and, Alexa, play Mexican restaurant music. And we don't have that in our background, but there's something about the vibe of the marachi band that it really enlivens our conversation when I can get off for my teens to sit down at a table. I mean, we have the restaurant music going, marachi band, and it's just
26:59 - 27:28
Speaker 2Christina: a great old time, you know. And it also helps me as a parent to remember the festive side of a dinner because you know, as moms, we're like, I finally have them. Okay, I'm going to tell you about the bathroom trash can, you did an empty and are you studying? You know, but so I use the music really helps me just a simple act of turning it on. He said, how can we involve it in our lives? Having music going that's uplifting, that's motivating in some way. And you'll notice it can shift the mood of a
27:28 - 28:05
Speaker 2Christina: room pretty easy. And I think it helps us to choose certain moods, certain the energy we choose to release, and the music can help you with that. But evolving more areas of arts, any time that we can put something, Whether it's a new play or take our kids outside to a music type festival or just seeing a street musician even sometimes. A lot of people walk right by them. I always liked with my kids to say, hey, let's pause and just listen. Whatever the instrument is, let's just kind of let them see someone else creating, being
28:05 - 28:36
Speaker 2Christina: in their modality and creating something, you know, that to them is expressive and artistic and it's hard to do, you know, and so I think as parents being able to just to recognize, number 1, we see, okay, I want to put arts in my kids' world. It helps them emotionally and it's activating a different way of thinking in their brain. So let me be intentional. If I see it out and about, let us pause and stop. If there's something I hear that we can go to, let's do that. A lot of it is free. You know,
28:36 - 29:04
Speaker 2Christina: if there's a movie we want to watch together or a band that my son seems kind of interested in, if 1 of my kids ever say, hey mom, have you heard this song? You know, I sometimes, I have, I've had to train myself to do this to stop and say okay my child something about that song has so moved my teenager that they're wanting to pull me into their world because it's like right you know and so and I've learned to instead of you know, no or yeah, yeah, it's all right. I've learned to say, you
29:04 - 29:16
Speaker 2Christina: know, to kind of give a little spotlight to that moment and say, no, let me hear it, you know, they'll pull it up and play or share your air pod. Like that's the highest form of, I made it in the teens or here's my store card, right?
29:16 - 29:19
Speaker Cheryl1: Yes, I feel you. I feel you right now.
29:22 - 29:50
Speaker 2Christina: But, so I think us creating experiences and helping them spotlight, especially when they're young, you know, and then as they grow older as in the teen world, if they ever show interest in something of the arts, you know, really stop or if they say, hey, I heard this is in town, this looks really fun. You know, what can I do to make that happen to, you know, to go to it or to at least something? My daughter and I couldn't go to Taylor Swift's concert when she hit Dallas, but we did go to the movie. You
29:50 - 30:11
Speaker 2Christina: know, we sat and we dressed up and we did all the things, but I'm like, this speaks to her, whether or not it's my style or not or whatever. And she's a great artist, a very successful business woman. I said, well, let's do this though, you know, and we'll forever have that memory. And, and so that's a few, few thoughts.
30:11 - 30:49
Speaker Cheryl1: I just love I love the what I love to about The creatives and the arts is that there it's a 1 area where it's not there's no right or wrong However, you feel about something whatever you see in something whatever you hear and something is right. Yeah Beautiful. There's never a wrong and I love that. Your Taylor Swift story jogged my memory. My daughter and I, she really had no idea about Tragically Hip. And they had their final concert. We couldn't get to the concert, but like you, they did screening on our local theater. Yeah. And
30:49 - 31:26
Speaker Cheryl1: so I brought her to that. I said, this is history. Like he was dying. He passed not very long after that. This is history. This is strong Canadian history music. And she's very, very creative and very artistic and actually she's going to our Canadian Art Design University now. She quit her job and she's back so and that's what brings her light and joy and my son is music and I just love that. And I love that there's always that you're never wrong in your perspective of that, which there's always beauty when you're with your kids and
31:26 - 32:03
Speaker Cheryl1: you're appreciating somebody else's art, I feel like it gives them a message like, oh, I can express whatever, you know, and it's not a black and white answer, which I think is is actually really cool. And I love that you are doing this and then also incorporating The mindset, the whole mindset thing is just so important. I love it. So I want to ask you then, if we're talking to parents and I'm not going to ask you to give away your whole course but I'm going to say, can you give them 2 or 3 tips at
32:03 - 32:42
Speaker Cheryl1: home? If the kid, if there are kids coming home and I'm certainly not diminishing a diagnosis of social anxiety, I'm not. And when working with kids in the high school, I would, you know, they always, we have an IEP and we are able to, you know, work around it, differentiate, find a different, find a different way to assess. However, what I always did is try to help them move through it. So in the sense, well, if you can't perform in front of the class, that's fine. I would never, you know, I really came up with some
32:42 - 33:10
Speaker Cheryl1: resistance to teachers who said, well, that's the way they need to do it. It's never in the curriculum, so no. But you also want them to try and build that skill and you know I would say okay well can you do it in front of 1 person? Can you do it just on video and just send them the video? Can you do it in front of 2 people and work your way through that? But are there other ways for parents to kind of build that skill? And then, and I like what you said about the post-performance,
33:10 - 33:15
Speaker Cheryl1: so how they can reinforce that skill. Can you give us like a couple of tips that they could use at home?
33:15 - 33:53
Speaker 2Christina: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, well, let me just, I won't go all deep into it, but let me give you the method. I've developed this method, it's the P3 mindset method, okay? And so it's a little bit of arts language, but I think we can all relate. It's 3 steps. It's lights, camera, action. We've heard that before. So the little rhyme I use with it, I like to use rhymes and things because I just feel we all grab it easier. It's lights, camera, action is my automatic reaction. Lights, camera, action is my automatic reaction. Okay, so
33:53 - 34:08
Speaker 2Christina: that's that's the what to help you with that. Okay, parents. Now, you probably will have more success with teenagers if you do not try and do that in like a rhythm and dance, okay? My kids are like, mom, stop. So
34:08 - 34:09
Speaker Cheryl1: lame, so lame.
34:09 - 34:42
Speaker 2Christina: No matter, I'm like, you just don't even know, like I can do this stuff. No, you're my mom. Anyway, all right. Lights, camera, action, 3 steps. So I think as you, to help, to help prepare our youth for the moments, well, hey, you're going to, you're going to need to do this. Prepare them for whatever that moment is. We can begin to train their minds. And so 3 steps, lights is just the idea of anytime, anytime you have a, well let me put it in performance language because I do that that 1 best, alright. So I
34:42 - 35:15
Speaker 2Christina: have a performance I'm preparing for. From the moment that I find out about the performance or the audition, it's like my thought engine turns on and I begin to travel the road to that stage, okay? So it could be 2 months, 3 months, it could be 2 weeks, whatever that time span is, we're in pre-performance. So the step of lights is as I'm as I'm just moving through my life, when I notice that I have a thought about that upcoming performance, audition, presentation, I have a thought about it. The first step is to number 1 is
35:15 - 35:43
Speaker 2Christina: to shine the light on it. Lights. Just let's stop for a moment. I had this thought and I'm going to acknowledge that I had the thought and I'll tell you why. So let's say I'm getting ready. I'm combing my hair or whatever, getting ready. And I have this thought about an audition. It's coming up and I think, oh, it's that's going to be really hard. I, there's no way I can do it. And a lot of times we just keep on going. Like I have the moment in class. Oh gosh. Okay. Okay. And then you just
35:43 - 35:45
Speaker 2Christina: keep on going 2 months down the road.
35:45 - 35:45
Speaker Cheryl1: If
35:45 - 36:10
Speaker 2Christina: we'll just stop for a moment and say wait a second that was a performance thought lights It was a thought about the moment, okay? And this happens real fast in our brains, but it takes me a little time to explain it So I had the performance thought now. I've just had it now camera camera is like capturing it You know we take out a phone we capture a picture. We got to capture that thought and so what we do just like a camera to capture it in our mindset, we're going to label it, we're going to
36:10 - 36:41
Speaker 2Christina: label it positive or we're going to label it negative. All right, so if we go back, okay, I'm getting ready for school and that moment's coming up, I'll just, you know, what if I forget all my words? Wait, what, how's the performance thought? Positive or negative? This happens so fast, okay, we know that was a negative. So I've captured it, okay, lights, camera, action is my automatic reaction. So now we got to take action on our thought. And how we take action on our thought, if you label it positive, you repeat it. If you label it
36:41 - 37:15
Speaker 2Christina: negative, you replace it. So I'm going to forget my word, you know, lights, there was a kid that that's a performance thought, that was a negative thought, let me replace it, I'm going to nail my words, and you go on. And so our automatic reaction and our thought processes when we're anticipating something that's coming. So we're telling our, telling our kids or however, if they watch us training, sometimes as parents, I found that they listen better to others than us sometimes. And- We know nothing, you're right. You know, but it's great if you know what's being
37:15 - 37:41
Speaker 2Christina: taught and then you can, you know, you can, you can reinforce it or seed plant it in the background and it triggers the Lesson they watch from someone else or something. That's what I think that's a great way for teens to do for parents of teens. So Three-step process I have something that's coming you have this you might not be totally confident about it or you might be concerned, whatever, here's your process. When you have a thought, number 1, let's just realize that was a performance thought, that was a thought about the game. Was that positive
37:41 - 38:11
Speaker 2Christina: or negative? That was positive. Oh, great, I'm going to do great. It's negative, like I'm going to drop the ball, I'm not going to drop the ball and go on. This is in pre-performance. So now think about this. In my lesson, in the road to the stage, I have something called performance energy, which is what I call nerves. Instead of nerves, I teach my students, don't say I'm nervous, say I have performance energy. Isn't that more empowering? Yes, it really is. When that performance energy kicks in, because the closer you get to the moment, the more
38:11 - 38:46
Speaker 2Christina: that begins to stir, especially right before the day before. So it kicks in and how our brain has been labeling positive or negative, how our brain's been labeling our thoughts up to this point, when that adrenaline and cortisol is released in your body, you start feeling nerves. It's going to be attached to this feeling of emergency or to feeling of control and it's going to be based largely on what your mind your brain has been telling yourself all these times and you've got to take control of the thought so if every time There's just no way
38:46 - 39:06
Speaker 2Christina: I'm gonna do it. Wait a second. I'm gonna do great, you know boo-boo-boo and sometimes we might not totally believe that you got to talk yourself into it sometimes. It's a mind thing. But right away cuz then the brain I think in this in step number 2 lights camera The brain knows you had a thought, you know You can't help the thoughts that come but you can help what if they
39:06 - 39:07
Speaker Cheryl1: stay or not the brain knows you had a thought, you know? You can't help the thoughts that
39:07 - 39:34
Speaker 2Christina: come, but you can help if they stay or not. The brain knows you had a thought, and the brain's kind of like, she had a thought about the performance. I wonder what she's thinking of. What's she gonna do about it? You know, my human being is labeling this as a high stress moment. She can't do it. So the brain is like, okay, if that moment comes, this is a high stress moment for my human being. And so I've got to release more of that adrenaline. She's gonna be in that, she's concerned about that.
39:34 - 39:37
Speaker Cheryl1: Does that make sense? 100 percent.
39:38 - 40:11
Speaker 2Christina: So and that's and then our our mindset our brain like oh okay is that is she concerned or not well it's gonna be a positive experience. Okay okay so when that comes okay we're gonna release a little bit but we're not gonna overwhelm them. They're not running away from a bear. You know, the fight, like they're just walking onto a stage or just doing that. So that's the P3 mindset method. Lights, camera, action is my automatic reaction. When I start thinking about it, I know what to do. That was a thought, that was positive, repeat it.
40:11 - 40:16
Speaker 2Christina: That was a thought, that was negative, let's replace it and just go on. God.
40:16 - 40:48
Speaker Cheryl1: Just look for anything. Anything. Literally anything. Body image, friends, self image, anxiety, like oh my gosh. Like I said even a few minutes ago, I feel like the vocal piece is like over here. The whole mindset piece is right here. I feel like all of this in this program you need to be like reaching out to schools. Wow. And I think it's so important and exactly how you say it is so understandable and manageable and doable and relatable. It's beautiful.
40:48 - 41:21
Speaker 2Christina: Thank you. I love that you say that. And that's why you'll notice on my bio that I say it's I'm I really feel that I'm pioneering a new form, a whole new category of training in the performing arts industry. But I see that's 1 thing with the road to the stage workshop, this training, whether or not a parent has a child who's a performer, any type of performer. To me, it's I put it in performance language because that's my lane. Any team could take this and apply it, these 4 lessons and apply it to their lives.
41:22 - 41:56
Speaker 2Christina: And so it really is a brand new category of training in the performing arts industry that we're watching the birth and development of it right here because it's needed and it's not being taught. And if you imagine in the arts, these youth and these teens, when it gets into higher level, when you're talking Broadway, when you're talking these that we're pushing at, talking about self-image and being able to take the nose and then the almost you know the negative feedback if they don't know how to control their mindset they can just be sunk it can be
41:56 - 42:05
Speaker 2Christina: over. So it's true but I mean yes I love the teens and the school systems they need to know how to control their thoughts.
42:05 - 42:33
Speaker Cheryl1: 100% and in every sense of the word, not just performing. I think it's fantastic. I even hate to wrap this up because this is just amazing, amazing work. Thank you. Thank you for this work. I really appreciate you coming on and sharing this. I know that parents are gonna go Oh my god, this is amazing. So tell us how we can work with you how we can find you Tell us all the good stuff. It's all gonna go in the show notes, but I still want you to just say it out loud.
42:33 - 43:07
Speaker 2Christina: Yeah, yeah. Well concerning this specifically if you'll go to the roadtothestage.com and that will give you that will get you in front of this program that I think could be used for for anyone and so the roadtothestage.com and on that if you wanted that free checklist, if you do have a performer 5 boxes to check the week before you perform or audition, I think it's I think it's a very practical and helpful It could save performances. So that's that's free. But you can get the product there. And what I what I'm going to do or what
43:07 - 43:39
Speaker 2Christina: I wanted to tell you I did is I created a coupon code for anyone on your podcast. So the program it'll get you 50% off of the program. It's $97 and it's 4 lessons and a 22-23 page workbook that I've designed. And in the lessons we go through that. They're filling in the blanks. They're going through it and so it'll be 50 50 off and it's it's teen minds from your podcast. Teen minds 50 off. 5 0 off. And I'll break that.
43:39 - 43:58
Speaker Cheryl1: I'm so grateful for that thank you thank you thank you yes so get on there get on there like every teachers need to read you know even teachers like honestly everybody needs to get a hold of this information. I'm so grateful for your work. Any last words before we have to go?
44:00 - 44:38
Speaker 2Christina: Parents, anyone listening, I was gonna say 1 of my little things, but I'll say this. Don't give up on your kids. I think as a parent, it's easy sometimes. It's easier to me when they're young to seed plant and do all this. And then they get into this young adult teen phase and I think I found myself sometimes thinking I'm just gonna let it go just you know they're 15 just but zone in re-engage as a parent you put in all this work up to this point, let's we raise them to release them well. And so
44:38 - 44:53
Speaker 2Christina: just parents be encouraged as part it's not easy. Don't give up on your kids. They're there, they're going through a lot and you're the 1, you're the hero in their life. Even if they don't tell you that, you're the hero. So stay the course, release from well.
44:54 - 45:14
Speaker Cheryl1: That is so impactful. Thank you for saying that. And thank you for listening. Thank you for joining me, Christina Walker. I'm so grateful for you. And we will see you all next time. Sounds good, bye y'all. Teen Minds, redefined with Cheryl Pankhurst. New episodes out every Wednesday. Thanks for stopping by.
46 min
April 16, 2024 #25 "Unlocking Teen Academic Success: The Role of Tutoring, SMART Goals & The Power of an Advocate" with Helen Panos
Speaker 1 Cheryl/ Speaker 2 Helen (Guest)
00:17 - 00:54
Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Teen Minds Redefine where we redefine our relationships with our teenagers and allow them to grow into their own authentic selves as we grow these human beings and send them off into the world. And today we have a guest Helen Panos. And I welcome Helen as we are getting towards the end of our year of high school. And that means a lot of things like assessments. So We brought in Helen today to talk about this. She is an accomplished educator with 25 years of experience in the public school system. Helen began Dynamis

00:55 - 01:36
Speaker 1: Learning 8 years ago. It's a K to 12 nationwide tutoring, SAT, ACT, prep, Advocacy and Academic Planning Company. With Helen's depth of expertise, she is able to provide personalized support and solutions for academic success. She has up to 22 tutors on staff and these educators have various specialties. Currently the company is a virtual nationwide with 90% of the business being done via Zoom. But tutors can meet a child at their home or in the library in the metro Atlanta area as needed. You can follow Helen on her podcast, Smart Parents, Successful Students, as she has a

01:36 - 01:41
Speaker 1: wealth of information to share with parents. So thank you and welcome, Helen.

01:42 - 01:46
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. This is exciting to be able to come on to your show.

01:46 - 02:22
Speaker 1: Well, it's timely too, because, you know, we're talking about teenagers now and we're we're into April, May, June, now we're talking about really prepping for those final exams and this is you know Some of my episodes are a little more mindset, but this is very practical. We need this practical information. We need to know how to go from A to B to C to get our kids through these final exams and assessments. I think it's really important that we have tactics and strategies that you offer, which is fantastic. Now, did I miss anything you wanted to

02:22 - 02:23
Speaker 1: add in the bio?

02:24 - 02:31
Speaker 2: No, that was perfect. I do have a newsletter, but we could talk about that at the end.

02:31 - 02:36
Speaker 1: Perfect. Okay, so let's talk about first, why do we need tutoring?

02:37 - 03:15
Speaker 2: Well, a lot of people think tutoring is more for kids that are struggling, right? But I definitely want to put this out In the forefront about it also being for advancing kids because we get a lot of those as well so a lot of times it's for you know, those gaps that you're seeing especially after let's say the big c word covid And people are still seeing those. Those are gonna be around probably for quite a while, especially when it comes to math. Writing is another issue. But tutoring uncovers a lot of things that parents may

03:15 - 03:53
Speaker 2: not ever see themselves, right? Because parents are very busy today and women are working as much as the men are and so you've got a dual income family which I think has definitely changed over time and so Women can't possibly see every little thing, right? If they're busy being online or they're going into an office, then they have even less time to notice things possibly. And kids are pretty good as well at hiding things as we know. That's 1 thing that's never changed. Kind of reminds me of my puppy. So no matter what the age is,

03:54 - 04:23
Speaker 2: you know, that could be a self-confidence thing. They don't want to show it. Maybe they feel not, you know, they're comparing themselves to their friends. A lot of that goes on today because of social media and things like that. So they may not want to point it out and get help or ask for the help. You know, some people are like, Oh, I'll figure it out myself. I'll get it. I'll get it. You know, and then before you know it, they're fell in a class or are not getting something that's really a key, you know, thing

04:23 - 04:55
Speaker 2: they needed in math, let's say a concept that then now develops into harder math as time goes on that they needed. Timetables are a number 1 thing I see that kids just don't know because they're elevating kids in the math and language arts and they're assuming there's like this lack of communication between schools and parents where they're assuming the parents were going to teach them the timetables and they're like they never told the parents to teach them the timetables, which is extremely important for a lot of math. Yeah, yeah.

04:56 - 05:08
Speaker 1: So, talk to me about those gaps, like what would you see as a tutor or your staff, what would they see as a gap? Like, talk to us about those gaps first. Like, I'm interested in that.

05:09 - 05:38
Speaker 2: So a lot of things that we're seeing is, you know, they might have not been paying attention if they were virtual before because they figure, well, school is over or something, I guess. Because virtual works. We do virtual tutoring one-on-one. It definitely works. But, you know, they knew, they were listening to the news as much as we were probably and they were figure well they didn't have to pay attention anymore Some were sleeping later and not waking up for their classes, so they were missing out on content that was continuing and I guess they didn't take

05:38 - 06:12
Speaker 2: things seriously a few years ago. I mean, but I can also say a lot of people like to blame COVID for these gaps, but this is just typical. I mean this is this would have shown up eventually. I just think you know COVID might have accelerated it a bit more and parents were at home and they saw some things that they would have not otherwise noticed and teachers are so busy, right? You got a class of 30, 32, 35 kids, you're not going to notice everything. And there's just so many things going on like ADHD and

06:12 - 06:44
Speaker 2: things like that, that even the kids don't realize that that's affecting them and how it's affecting them until a tutor builds a relationship with them one-on-one and then we start noticing things. We're like, hey did you notice this about your child or and then we get involved with the teacher. So the teacher sees things, they see them a lot of the time of the day, then we see them, then the parents sees them. So the 3, I call it, you know, forming a village, a very strong support system. It takes more than just the teacher in

06:44 - 06:50
Speaker 2: this day and time to be alert on what's going on with your child.

06:50 - 06:55
Speaker 1: I love that you're involved with the teacher. I don't think a lot of tutoring companies do

06:55 - 06:56
Speaker 2: that. No.

06:56 - 07:15
Speaker 1: So it feels like you've got the perfect, like the trifecta going on there. You've got parent involvement, you got teacher involvement. I think a lot of tutoring places that I'm aware of, you just drop them off at Oxford, they do their little skill building, back and let's hope they've done something. So talk to me about that piece. How important is that?

07:15 - 07:49
Speaker 2: So that's what I call the advocacy piece of our program, which we're definitely, you know, promoting more, because that is very important, is like trying to have all the ears and eyes from afar. And you just don't know, you send them to school as a parent, right? They're gone for 8 hours of the day and you're just assuming they're getting the information but again there's so many, I was a 504 chair so that means I understand there's a lot of disabilities and not necessarily special ed disabilities. These could just be you know a 504 plan. You

07:49 - 08:20
Speaker 2: need a 504 plan and you need accommodations to help you out. You know a lot of parents may not realize the child is struggling and there is a disability that might be a fault and then I'll suggest which schools do not do and they will not do it for you because they're afraid of lawsuits. I will suggest, hey, have you thought about taking them to your pediatrician? Have you thought about increasing the drug? 1 child, to kind of get into an example, sixth grader, ADHD, was medicated but the mom was only medicating him at 9 a.m.

08:20 - 08:49
Speaker 2: In the morning when he got to score 8 and then it was dying out by noon or so and then he never took another drug the rest of the day. Well he's highly ADHD. He needs a drug Throughout the whole day and I'm not a big lover of drugs I'll throw that in there, but there's just certain kids that have to have it in order to be honest with you. I've taught And Otherwise, they're gonna be really scattered And that could be causing the gaps because they think they're listening but they don't realize they're not really

08:49 - 09:23
Speaker 2: listening and then they're not taking tests seriously because again they're not paying attention to what the teacher is saying how important the tests are and how they use them to place you in future classes they use them for to get you in a gifted program, they use it for a lot of reasons. So that's why we also do what's called course selection academic planning where we look at a child's years from sixth grade on and we do it based on their interests and we then kind of figure out what classes they should be taking. That doesn't

09:23 - 09:47
Speaker 2: mean that's set in stone. You can change it but at least they have an end goal. This kind of goes to my smart goals I wanted to talk about. You have a goal in mind right at the end because most kids will say oh, why do I need this? Why do I need to do this homework? Why do I need to do this math? I'm not going to be an engineer or something like that, right? But then they can see what classes they're going to have to take all the way out to 12th grade. I mean,

09:47 - 10:19
Speaker 2: counselors are not doing this and they're not going to. But we know enough about the contents and what it takes to graduate and where they wanna go, what do they think their future is going to be. And then we do it according to that. I have a tutor that does that. So, you know, there's just a lot of things going on that is not written anywhere. It's not going to be said necessarily by a school system. That will be said by your teacher. I mean really teachers just don't have the time to sit here and email

10:19 - 10:53
Speaker 2: parents about Every little thing but once we get involved now, you know the more you do I'll give a hint to everybody the more you do Get on email and Say something to a teacher the more you're now on their radar and I'm not saying be Overly emailing them and bothering them, but you're now in the forefront of their head, right? So I know Right. So if I have a parent emailing me when I was teaching, then now I'm like sitting up straight looking around and now I'm paying more attention to your child. You may not

10:53 - 11:23
Speaker 2: know it, that's what I'm doing because now you email me and you've kind of put me on alert in a way, Not in a bad way. But now I'm like, okay, now I'm gonna really cue into your child a little more. I might walk more over there, kind of pay attention to what you're doing in terms of he's doing his projects or a writing assignment. And then I can, you know, when they email me again, I'll say, yeah, this is what I noticed specifically. Otherwise you won't hear from a teacher and you really won't know what's

11:23 - 11:39
Speaker 2: going on. I think some of that has caused the gaps right because teachers can't sit here and email a hundred and something parents every week. 30 kids in a classroom times 5 classes. That's 150 parents.

11:39 - 12:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's realistic. Absolutely. And I love how you said that because, you know, I've, me being in the public system as well for 25 years, hearing parents say, well, how did they not notice? How did they not see? But if you're seeing it at home, you are your kid's biggest advocate. Send the email. You're right. It doesn't have to be in a negative derogatory way at all. It's like, hey, this is what I'm seeing. Can you just let me know if you're seeing this at school? And that can go either way. You know, I know

12:12 - 12:42
Speaker 1: a teacher sometimes, as you said, find it difficult to find the words because sometimes it can be a challenge with parents, whereas if teachers could just say, listen, I'm noticing Johnny do this, this, and this. Can you let me know what you're seeing at home? Because it works the other way. Now parents are like, oh, Well, I usually just send him up to his room to do his homework and I think things are going well. And now, well now it's a switch, right? Now you're calling attention to it. So it's just working as a team. Exactly.

12:42 - 12:44
Speaker 1: Right? Yeah. Collaborating

12:44 - 12:45
Speaker 2: as a team.

12:46 - 12:47
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly.

12:47 - 13:16
Speaker 2: Team. And that's why, That's why I like to let them know, okay, have you thought about a pediatrician? We had another child, a sixth grader, who his ADHD but not medicated and he's sitting in on-level classes, Cheryl, And that is not where he needs to be. He's highly gifted actually. When I went in there and gave him some tests to see if I was correct, it actually started with us doing a course selection academic planning like I just mentioned a few minutes ago. That then my tutor calls me and says, hey, are you going in to

13:16 - 13:34
Speaker 2: tutor this child and I said yes I am gonna go see if he's gifted and before we pursue that with the school and why and she goes okay give me a call when you're done because I want to know Why he's sitting on on level classes so she wouldn't know anything about that if she hadn't started that first step which then just

13:34 - 13:45
Speaker 1: clarify what non-level so in in Ontario we'll have like a applied level and an academic level and then we'll have a gifted level

13:45 - 13:45
Speaker 2: yeah

13:45 - 13:53
Speaker 1: so when you're saying on level you're talking about base level, if you're in grade 9 they're learning at grade 9 this is grade 9.

13:53 - 14:28
Speaker 2: That's it. Right. Okay. And he was he's highly gifted actually in math. I mean he can work problems like nobody's business very quickly. I gave him what's called a COGAT, a cognitive abilities test, which is the mental abilities test and he killed every section. What's holding him back is the ADHD because he can't focus long enough to take a three-hour COGAT test, which they don't have to necessarily follow accommodations for those, but I said to him, now, you know, we worked with him, he's got 1 of my tutors doing language arts because he's on level for

14:28 - 14:56
Speaker 2: language arts, but very accelerated actually for math, but we can't get him in then in that advanced math You know he needs to get into a gifted program probably and he's capable because he can do it on the verbal he can do It on the nonverbal and he can do it on the quantitative part all 3 He's just not Going to be able to uphold his stamina long enough to do it, but all he needed was 1 section so I kept Armed a relationship with him. I actually went in person for this and my tutors doing

14:56 - 15:27
Speaker 2: it virtually But we we see he's very gifted Even my tutor says that to me. And I saw it. And so I gave him the test. It confirmed it. And I'm like, so okay, I want you to know you're actually extremely intelligent. Do not be affected by the fact you couldn't get in the gifted program before. I'm gonna tell you it's your ADHD. I want you to be aware of that And I need you to uphold your stamina for the 1 hour the first part of the test I only need you to score 96 percentile on

15:27 - 15:57
Speaker 2: 1 part of that test Nobody else is going to talk to you like that right Teachers don't have time to say that to him. They probably don't know him that well. That's a big part of tutoring is the relationship we form with them and the things they'll tell us. Then we kind of text the parents, let them know on the side, but then we also say, please don't let them know necessarily. They don't need to know that you know. We want them to continue to talk to us that way. Of course, yeah. And then if it's

15:57 - 16:28
Speaker 2: something, of course, if there's something tragic or something we really felt like it's urgent for them to know and that needs to, you know, some emergency, then of course they need to intervene. But we just want them to kind of know this is going on and just be on top of that too and just be aware of it, but we'll deal with it. So, I mean, it's interesting because the young man who doesn't, isn't medicated, they've tried 4 drugs on him and he, it apparently has not worked out very well at all. And so I just

16:28 - 17:00
Speaker 2: said to her, you know, this is something school's not going to tell you. Whatever is your other 2 children's pediatrician doesn't mean this is the same pediatrician that should deal with your son. And I said he probably needs a pediatric psychiatrist and I know somebody that does deal with the IEP Cheryl and stuff like that and consults on those. We work together on reformed business and she even said to me I don't feel like a pediatrician should be the 1 that prescribes the medication anyway that says this is the kind of drug your child should have

17:01 - 17:27
Speaker 2: and and she's got a lot of experience so I really trust what she says and so I kind of I listen to a lot of things and even though I'm not an expert on the IEPs and stuff like that I hear enough to know okay you may want to look at this And another parent in that same school actually told me that too and said here give her this recommendation. So parent groups are very important as well. You know, that's why I get a lot of referrals is because people are like, no, you just don't want

17:27 - 17:43
Speaker 2: a tutoring company. You don't want to go to the franchise that's up the street with the big sign, right? On the wall there on the building. You wanna go to Helen because she has educational experience and she's doing advocacy and she'll go to bat for you. And you know, more than tutoring.

17:43 - 17:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was just gonna say, 1 of my questions for you to explain is what makes you different. Dr.

17:48 - 17:49
Speaker 2: Dylewski And that's it. Dr.

17:49 - 18:29
Speaker 1: Dylewski It's so important. It's so important. And, you know, I'm going to here's a disclaimer. I, I know a lot of people are against medicating. I understand that. However, in 25 years of me working with kids who've been diagnosed with ADHD, sometimes it is the only fuel that works for them. And it changes lives. So it might not be for your child, but if everything else is not working, look at the difference it would make if they could take the test, if they could like actually have the ability to sit still, take the test, not jump

18:29 - 18:39
Speaker 1: ahead. All of those things that come with you know characteristics of ADHD please don't write it off if you've tried everything else.

18:40 - 18:40
Speaker 2: Right.

18:41 - 18:42
Speaker 1: I've seen it change worlds.

18:42 - 19:09
Speaker 2: And you really don't want to waste a lot of time trying a bunch of things. I would, you know, people will sit there and go, let me try this, or let me talk to some more people and see what else I can try. And that's fine. It's just, you know, I mean, I believe me, I am not a big proponent of medicine. I myself don't take a lot of it if I can do something else. But you know sixth grade only comes around once. Once it's done, it's done. Now it's seventh grade. Now they're getting behind.

19:10 - 19:41
Speaker 2: So when the math gets harder and you guys stay up longer to do your work or have more stamina to take tests to really work out problems. It does make a difference. I mean, we're doing 1 right now that he's a sixth grader and he is medicated, but he didn't have enough medication. He didn't do well on the MAT test, let's say, And she's actually a doctor, his mom. And so she calls me and says, did you see what he just did? I said, well, who was at that email? They put me on the email and

19:41 - 20:10
Speaker 2: she goes, the 504 chair. And I said, ah, I said, I didn't even have to ask Cheryl with my 25 years of experience as well, I knew he bombed it because I know the kid to be very intelligent. I personally have gone in person and worked with him at first before I gave him to my 2 tutors. He's doing 1 math tutor, 1 language arts twice a week. And I went in person on purpose because of a couple things my language arts tutor was saying that he seems not as focused so I was talking to her

20:10 - 20:43
Speaker 2: and she goes did you see he bombed that map test? I go yeah and I can tell you what happened. She goes yeah he was flagged for answering those questions too quickly. I go, right. And she goes, how did you know that? I said, because I know he's ADHD, he's medicated, but I don't believe he's medicated enough to pay attention. And I have my 504 experience, and I've heard this a million times in the years I was a 504 chair. So she goes, oh, I said, well, when are you giving him the drug? Did he take

20:43 - 21:14
Speaker 2: it that morning before he took the test? That's a whole other story. So some kids, if you're letting them do it, they may not do it. I don't care how old they are. They may just say, Oh, I forgot to take it. Well, ADHD kids are forgetful as well. Right? Yeah. So, anyway, I think she realized that he might have not taken it that morning when he took the test. And on top of that, it dies down by noon. And I just suggested to her, you know, talk to your pediatrician and say, this is what's happening

21:14 - 21:34
Speaker 2: in his life. He needs to be able to focus till the afternoon. He's doing soccer. He gets tutoring at 6. I say, I know you don't want to keep him awake late at night so you don't want him to take it too late, but there are boosters or other things doctors can do. I'm not a doctor. I won't tell you what's best for your child, but I think you need to look at this more.

21:35 - 21:55
Speaker 1: And we could probably go so far down the path of the ADHD and what that means, but I'm going to bring it back to that's the importance of having the advocacy with the tutor. Like that's the importance of having all those different layers. So you started talking about smart goals. Expand on that. That's.

21:56 - 22:27
Speaker 2: Well, I have a smart goal planner that everybody can get. I didn't want to forget to say that before I start, but yeah, I was just on a adult Zoom call with a coach this morning and she mentioned, she says, I've looked at a lot of different avenues of how to do this, she says, but I still come back to the SMART goals being the best way to do things. And if you use my planner, I'm gonna suggest that people download that and get it and do that every semester with your child. I don't care if

22:27 - 22:55
Speaker 2: they're only 5 years old, you could set 1 goal. 1 goal, teaching them from setting goals from young is even better. And it could be just a personal goal with a five-year-old, not necessarily an academic goal. And then as they get a little bit older, 2 goals. And then the ones that are in middle school or fifth grade and up, 3 goals. And I used to do this in school we put it in our planner my principal loved it and my planner you'll see also asks you did you reach these goals or what it has them

22:55 - 23:30
Speaker 2: reflecting actually thinking about okay you got these 3 goals and 1 can be a personal 1 if you want you do sports maybe you want to hit a goal with the baseball or something. 2 should be academic related and so you asked on there it asks what obstacles do you think you would meet in trying to reach these goals and who can you get help from to help you meet these goals as well. It's not just S-M-A-R-T and what that stands for, which is on my form by the way, and I think most people know what

23:30 - 24:03
Speaker 2: SMART goals are and what the S-M-A-R-T stands for, but it also has a deadline, right? That's why I say do it by semester, not just for the entire school year. That's too long. They may not see the benefit in that, but everybody is kind of semester oriented, right, in school anyway. So that's why I think a smart goal planner and keep it in front of them and then my tutors work with them on that so they kind of remind them about their goals. Wasn't your goal to make an A in this physics class or something like

24:03 - 24:06
Speaker 2: that, okay, we still have time to still reach that goal.

24:06 - 24:06
Speaker 1: And that's

24:06 - 24:19
Speaker 2: what you probably need to do percentage-wise on your final to make sure if you're an 88, what do you need to make? I mean, teachers aren't going to take the time to do all of that. They don't have time to do that. And parents don't either.

24:19 - 24:35
Speaker 1: Let's break it down. Break it down for me. Pretend I don't know what a SMART goal is. Give us the acronym and what it means. Cause I think it's important. Cause as you're talking, I'm thinking, I need my own planner. I was in high school for a few years. I need my own planner. I actually

24:35 - 24:37
Speaker 2: do have my own planner.

24:37 - 24:38
Speaker 1: There you go.

24:38 - 25:12
Speaker 2: And it's over there. And I do set goals for the quarter. I set 3, actually. And one's always a monetary goal. And 2 are anything that's like a project based thing that I have to do in my business. So, these goals don't, as you can see, I'm in my 50s and those don't ever go away. They work. And then you break it down by, you know, what are your benchmarks, meaning what are you going to do every week to meet those goals, and then daily, what are you going to do? That would come back to studying,

25:12 - 25:31
Speaker 2: which is 1 thing I wanted to bring up. So, so they can realize how this all fits into the big overall plan. Yes. Graduating from high school, what do I want to do past high school? Now let's back it up. Kind of see the end goal in mind but now come backwards all the way down to sixth grade.

25:31 - 25:32
Speaker 1: I love it. I love it.

25:32 - 26:02
Speaker 2: Really, you can come as you get them ready doing the SMART goals thing and then you, you know, decide, okay, well, now they'll understand it better when you get to sixth grade and you're doing more for that. But S is, I want to make sure I have it all so S is specific. So you set a specific goal. Don't just say I want to make an a In a semester then you know you if you know, there's a weak point in the subject matter Then you could say I want to make a 90 or better in

26:03 - 26:32
Speaker 2: physics class because you can't stand physic or that maybe that might be 1 of your old you know hardest class to do it in m is measurable so you want to be able to measure it so that's you know you don't want to just set a goal and not be able to measure it. Quantify it or suggest some progress progress metrics you can set up. Well there are 9 week progress reports. A lot of school systems I don't know about in Canada they do what's called a 4 week interim report. You could use those to be

26:32 - 27:10
Speaker 2: your metrics or you like keep listing all your test grades or your quiz grades. Yeah. Your attention more. A is achievable. You know you can assure you achieve your goals with the resources that are given to you. R is realistic and that's outlining what are the results that you can feasibly achieve using the available resources so be realistic about it. Don't say you're gonna make a 98 in physics if really you know that's 1 of your toughest toughest classes and you might want to say 85 is the goal. Yeah. And then T is timely. Highlight when

27:10 - 27:29
Speaker 2: your goals should be achieved. Don't just leave it open-ended. That's why I say, I have the planner set up by semester. So when I do my own goals, I actually do it by quarter. I do it every, like I just hit my largest quarter in first quarter of 2024. So- You

27:29 - 27:31
Speaker 1: would never know if you hadn't set the goal, so.

27:31 - 28:07
Speaker 2: Right, I mean, you can technically do it quarterly. You can take my planner and just do it 4 times, twice in each semester and just do it by quarter. That might be best for a kid that's younger so they can see it better and then maybe for the kids that are older in high school, they can handle the semester planner. You could change it to twice a quarter, twice a semester. Yeah. So, right. So, you need to be specific. I'm going to increase my grade by, and that could be the midterm benchmark is, okay, I had

28:07 - 28:34
Speaker 2: an 80, you know, by the middle of the semester, now I wanna get up into the 90s. Can I do it? And what do I need to do to do it? So, yep, I mean, you really, you have to write it down and really look at it every day as well. That's another big deal because otherwise, if you put it away in a drawer, that doesn't work. And matter of fact, they say you should write your goals every single day. And I say, yeah, you can read them off of a planner. Like I could sit here

28:34 - 29:03
Speaker 2: and read mine, but it's best that you rewrite them every day. That's what I do. Because as they say in the research about hand, head to paper, That's probably the point in that. It's like journaling and gratitudes and things like that. It's kind of the same concept of why you should write things down to this day. And unfortunately a lot of our kids are technology-based, right? So they just want to look at it on the computer.

29:05 - 29:08
Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk about studying. We're heading into exams.

29:08 - 29:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, studying is... I've got

29:10 - 29:17
Speaker 1: so many questions. When do we start? How do we start? How do we help our kids without going too far? What do we like? All the things.

29:17 - 29:48
Speaker 2: Well, studying really should be taking place from day 1 of a semester to be honest with you and if they get into a Habit of doing that then it makes their life so much easier and it lines with these goals, right? So it helps them understand why they have to study and what the importance is of studying every day or at a minimum every other day. You can alternate your classes, do 3 1 day, do 2, 3 others another day or whatever, however many you have. So you just split it up. I mean you can start

29:48 - 30:19
Speaker 2: them that way, especially if they're younger, third, fourth, fifth graders maybe, you can do it every other day and say you're going to do social studies, science and language arts 1 day and then you're going to do reading, whatever math and whatever else science another day. You know, just split them up. And then they have to get, you know, they're waiting for a study guide is what we always see. I mean, we have a couple right now that are doing that to my tutors. They'll throw out the study guide at the last minute and we'll ask,

30:19 - 30:51
Speaker 2: so did you work on this over the weekend? No, I didn't really have time. I had soccer practice and then when we asked the mom, so she didn't have time to do this. I mean, cause we're not really sure, right? The child could be telling the truth right kids are busy today And if parents don't realize they have a test coming up let's say on Tuesday, and they think the tutor This is another thing they think the tutor is gonna be the ultimate rescuer over a study guide in 1 day then That's not true Because you

30:51 - 31:21
Speaker 2: can't do miracles in 1 night, in 1 day. And then when do you have time to study it after the tutor's kind of helped you with that? Because it takes time to set up the study guide yourself. It's almost like you have to have your own study guide, not just the school study guide. You study every single day everything they're teaching you in school like your notes and you can form your own flashcards and I would really highly suggest they do something with it, not just read the notes. Like every week they should do something with

31:21 - 31:55
Speaker 2: the content of that class, at least their weakest class, maybe their lowest 2, and actually do something with them, flashcards or whatever, then now they're doing something and that makes them also learn it. Otherwise, they get bored, they're not going to read it, they're not going to look at it, they're not really going to try to memorize it or whatever they're doing. Make a game out of it or whatever. So Yeah, if they're not studying and they're waiting to last minute that it's very hard to make an a and to reach your goals So it's like

31:55 - 32:22
Speaker 2: they're seeing it all the time I mean the kid can say they're busy over the weekend cuz that's soccer and then when we ask a parent well, were they that busy? They're like, no, they're battling me. And I had plenty of time. The soccer game wasn't more than an hour. So let's say a half hour to get their half hour back, a little relaxation time. What happened to the rest of the weekend. So we kind of point that out to them so that they're not battling their parent because they like to do that. So that kind

32:22 - 32:48
Speaker 2: of removes them out of it and we ask them, so why didn't you get this done this weekend? Oh I was too busy. Well tell me what you did. You know and make them lay it out and then they realize they really weren't that busy. They just chose not to do it. But now we're accountable to them and they know they're accountable to us, let's say. And so we're like, okay, here's your, your homework assignment. You're going to start doing this every day. And we may even check in with them. Like I've done this with the

32:48 - 33:11
Speaker 2: 1 child that was ADHD. He wasn't remembering to do things. I'm like, okay, I need you to go back in and do this. Let's do it on a Google doc, do writing and I need you now to go back in. I've checked what you've written. I need you to go back in and fix my copy cause I'm able to write comments. And so we have to go in and read them and, and correct anything I told them to correct. And then I say, okay, you're, you're fine, you're fine. Now go back in and do this. So

33:11 - 33:31
Speaker 2: they realize it's not just a 1 and done, I'm done. You know, it's a process. And that way they don't get burned out thinking about it. You know, kids want to get on the computers. They'd rather play games. They'd rather do other things. Who doesn't? I mean, we can always all find something better and more fun to do.

33:32 - 33:40
Speaker 1: So are there different things besides, you mentioned flash cards, are there different strategies we can offer for study skills? Like,

33:41 - 34:15
Speaker 2: I have a, actually I just ran a series of blogs on tests, taking strategies. You can find it on my website at dynamislearningacademy.com, under blogs up at the top. And we did a tip 123, and 4, I believe. And now we're running a mindfulness. I think that's just as important, is where's your mind when you're taking these tests is a relaxed Or did you have a very like tired? Tiring weekend with a bunch of games in a tournament and now you never really had time to sit back and relax before you go in and take a

34:15 - 34:46
Speaker 2: test on a Monday, let's say. Because a lot of it is you've got to get yourself like mentally ready in this day and time. So now we're running a, I think it's 5 tips of mindfulness in the month of April. We did all the test strategies in March. Now we're doing it because we're getting ready for here in Georgia, there's the Georgia milestones at the end of April and May. And then the high schoolers here take what's called end of course exams. So we're kind of like doing stuff for all K through 12, let's say, not

34:46 - 34:52
Speaker 2: really K through 2 takes tests, but 3 through 12 take tests here. So

34:53 - 35:06
Speaker 1: if a parent is starting to notice, like at what point are they calling you? What can they do beforehand? And then what point are they saying, nope, I got to get a hold of Helen? What are they seeing?

35:08 - 35:41
Speaker 2: Well, like these struggles where they're not there, they get start to get an email from a school usually Or the teacher or they've had a conference and a lot of schools are not doing conferences You almost have to ask for them and I would if I was a parent I would ask for at least minimum a yearly conference And if you're really concerned do 1 every semester do 2 of them a year. There's nothing wrong with it. You're a parent, you're a taxpayer or whatever, you have the right to do that. And usually it's something they're

35:41 - 36:12
Speaker 2: doing that you know they're not getting their work done, they're not turning in their work, that's the typical thing. If parents are calling me to advance their child, that's them. They're that type of a parent where they know where they want their child to go and to be very, they know they understand the, you know, the competition out there down the road. And they're looking at it from fifth and sixth grade, to be honest with you. Even third grade, we have a second grader where I could tell you the parents, a second and his brother's fourth,

36:12 - 36:48
Speaker 2: where they're already looking way down the road. Yeah. And so they, well, and it's about habits, really. It's about these smart goals. It's about habits and getting them in the right all of us promotes the right mindset. It's really about getting in the right mindset and the people who are successful in life, really. If we think about the Steve Jobs of the world and the Microsoft people and Bezios of the world, they didn't do this by, you know, going out and having fun and not studying and not, you know, trying to figure things out. What I

36:48 - 37:17
Speaker 2: see kids doing is they like to give up easy. And a lot of them will call me because they'll say, well, I know how to do this, but, but, if I hear the but, my husband shouldn't have to sit here and teach her math because she doesn't like her math teacher or and we've had a conference and we kind of we pretty much know it's not the math teacher it's partially her and it's the confidence that a lot of times is a confidence thing actually to be honest with you Cheryl yeah somewhere along the way the

37:17 - 37:44
Speaker 2: kid didn't do well in math, so they just have put in their brain that they are not good at math and that will never change. And but when our tutors step in and we can change it around 1 on 1 and talk them up and, you know, positive reinforcement and we can do it and they can always text us if they need to because usually most of the tutors will give them their phone number if the parent's fine with that then you know it's kind of like having a cheerleader in your in your pocket.

37:46 - 38:23
Speaker 1: I love that and I also you know when we talked about advocacy and I'm talking about high school, when you have those conferences, when you are emailing the teacher, involve your kid in all of it, because you completely eliminate. He said, she said, they said, I said, if your kids on board and old enough to be in high school, they're certainly on board to be a part of their education and feeling like they're on the same team. And I'll also say there's such a great advantage to having a tutor if it means eliminating the fight at

38:23 - 38:41
Speaker 1: home. And we know this happens. Like sometimes parents just say, I can't, I can't do it. First of all, I don't know the math of the current day or, or I get home from work, I'm tired and now I have to sit down and he's tired and I'm tired and it's just ruining our relationship, not worth it.

38:41 - 38:42
Speaker 2: Yes, so

38:42 - 39:14
Speaker 1: you know what and I think there's probably you can tell me as there are different accessibility layers to having tutoring like you can I'm sure you can pay top dollar, but other resources where parents can go and get, you know, someone that's just gonna do that with their kid and save the relationship. And I think that's number 1, like number 1, we're all exhausted. And the last thing you want to do from Monday to Thursday or Monday to Friday is spend 3 hours fighting with your kid and then they go to bed and then everybody feels

39:14 - 39:14
Speaker 1: like garbage.

39:15 - 39:46
Speaker 2: Yeah. And my favorite sentence about parents, and this is not their fault, is they don't know what they don't know. There's a lot to know nowadays from when we all went to school, because I've taught for 25 years. I'm sure you can understand this. And wow, what I knew back then, 25 years ago, to even the last 4 or 5. And this technology piece and really people I do a lunch and learn summer series. I'm meant to say that that will start in middle of May and goes all the way to End of september and I

39:46 - 40:20
Speaker 2: bring on a guest It's kind of like usually guests for my podcast. I usually bring on 2 guests a month every month may to september and talk about Different things like I'll interview my assistant this year because she's got a young child and she was just talking to me about technology. Technology is a big fight with parents. It really is. And these Apple watches that ADHD kids do not need to be distracted by are, I mean teachers are seeing it too. It's not the phones anymore. It's the phone on the watch. Mm-hmm tracking So they you

40:20 - 40:55
Speaker 2: know, they have a lot of battles to deal with that has nothing to do with just academics Yes, that's distracting the child, right? So then we can find that out because kids will tell us. 1 told me the other day his friend texts him during the day and I said at school? And he says yes but it's during lunch it's during lunch and I'm like well why is he texting you at all during the school? I mean how does he have time at lunch? He should be talking to his friends around him. You after, after school.

40:55 - 41:29
Speaker 2: But we also, I changed my tagline to say this, personalized support and solutions for academic success. And why I did that was because we do send you to other resources. If I know we can't help you then I'll send somebody to an executive functioning coach if that's what sounds like it might be, a psychiatrist, I know plenty, or I'll just hint to you, that's where you need to be looking. Not, because schools are not going to do that, we just got to realize they're not going to really help you. I think that's a myth. People think

41:29 - 42:00
Speaker 2: they're going to help you. They're just there to teach. Teachers are just there to teach the content and they're not gonna catch a bunch of things that are going on out there. They're not there to catch what's going on in your household. You know I've seen all kinds of things actually going into households that I think to myself as a teacher, I would have never thought some of this, these things and I don't know that parents know or don't know that this affects the child's academics. It's not anything bad, it could be, wow, they're really into

42:00 - 42:28
Speaker 2: this technology stuff and that's really affecting them. So yeah we do that and we look at to answer your question you were talking about here's an example of this is how we help parents I'll say go get a Georgia Milestones book I went and did the research I said I think this is the best book. I've asked a couple teachers of the students We tutor I said, what are they telling y'all might be a good resource for parents to get them ready for the Georgia milestones And they're like, oh, we don't really have anything They have

42:28 - 43:03
Speaker 2: no clue. Yeah So I'll go do the research I've been on the door department of education website The problem there is it gives you the answers right there. And it's not easy and very friendly. So I use it maybe myself when I'm tutoring kids, but not to give it to them and go here do these questions. And then from there you know we work on writing which is a big deal. I mean they're expecting kids to do a lot of detailed writing like these constructive response questions are quite interesting even all the way down to third

43:03 - 43:28
Speaker 2: grade. I'm blown away by that and so I mean they got to know how to do it because they're being timed and once it's up just like the SAT, ACT we do a meet and greet there. I let them look at both of my tutors if they want and actually bring the child on. Like you said, I want the child present on the Zoom call. They need to buy into this if you're going to spend the money.

43:28 - 43:42
Speaker 1: 100 percent. And it's their education. Like we have to start understanding that we're coaching them. We're not grabbing them by the hand and dragging them through it. We're coaching them and I think that's really important to keep them involved.

43:42 - 44:05
Speaker 2: And I let them do that also because I see the tutors and they kind of can see do they click with 1 over the other before they even start because doing SAT ACT prep is quite an investment. I mean it's not cheap but that's why I just let them do it because I want them to connect. It's the relationship that's important too and getting them to do well.

44:06 - 44:22
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. I love that you you have all the angles covered. I think I really I really appreciate that all the layers are there for everything we need And so can you tell everybody how to find you, where to work with you, all the things?

44:22 - 44:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, the easiest place to go is my website, dynamislearningacademy.com. I dropped the word academy in my actual company name, but it's there in the URL. And in there, there's a contact place up there on the top you can see blogs you can see my podcast all the way back I'm on season 12 cheryl's gonna be on my season 12 actually and then there's the contact spot you click right there fill out the form it'll come to me

44:51 - 45:22
Speaker 1: perfect and I'm gonna put everything in the show notes, including your nice freebie with your SMART goals for everybody. And I thank you, Helen. I think this is like very hands-on tactical information that we need. I love the advocacy piece of it. I love all of it. So get out there, give a call to Helen when you need it and share, subscribe, Tell everybody about this because we're getting to the end of the year and this is what we need Thank you again for listening to teen minds redefined

45:24 - 45:31
Speaker 2: Teen minds redefined with Cheryl Pankhurst new episodes out every Wednesday. Thanks for stopping by.

46 min
April 10, 2024 #24 “The Power of Breath: Transforming Our Relationships with our Teenagers” with Sarah Thorne
Speaker 1: Hold your breath, but not for long. We have a special guest today, Sarah Thorne, and I am so excited to introduce to you the holy grail to breath work. And I'm gonna first of all just let Sarah introduce herself and then I'm going to tell you how we met because it's very cool. Sarah, welcome. Welcome. Welcome I'm so happy to have you welcome to Teen Minds Redefined I am just honored to have you as a guest today and let's start by telling everybody who you are and what you do.

00:32 - 01:20
Speaker 2: Well thank you so much for that warm welcome Cheryl. I'm so happy to be here. So let's just jump in to where I'm at and how I got here. So I am a breathwork facilitator and consciousness coach. My journey has been not straightforward in any way. So backing up, when I came out of high school, I had a hard time figuring out what I wanted to do. I spent years in post-secondary because I just could not, for the life of me, think my way to the right answer for me. Eventually, this led me into career coaching.

01:21 - 02:01
Speaker 2: I needed to figure out how to make it happen for myself. So I was like, this is how I'm gonna do it and then I'm gonna help others who are struggling with really similar challenges. Through this work of coaching, it led me to understand that thinking our way to solutions isn't always the best approach. So while our minds are really beautiful tools, when we only use our mind, and it's really this rational mind, we kind of get stuck in these loops and I was very much stuck in this loop. And I was watching my clients do

02:01 - 02:41
Speaker 2: the same thing and I really I wasn't sure how to help them. I Then started About 2 and a half years ago. I started a master's in counseling psychology program and that really honestly just cracked me open I suddenly had to be able to identify my own emotions so that I could help others identify theirs. And through that, I realized that our bodies are a really important part of our decision-making ability. They're an important part of being able to actually create the lives that we are dreaming of. And so that led me into completing a trauma-informed

02:42 - 03:32
Speaker 2: breathwork facilitator certification. So taking everything that I have learned about our minds and how our thoughts are generally repetitive, how our beliefs are deep-seated and often we're not even aware of them, Bringing that, using the tools that I have learned through my education, through my coaching experience, bringing those and pairing them with breath work, has allowed me to heal on such a deeper level, to find deep clarity about what I truly am here to do, and what lights me up, and how I can help others experience that same kind of transformation?

03:34 - 04:11
Speaker 1: I love it. I love it and I want to say this is how my morning started because I want people to understand how much this affected me. I just stood for 10 minutes staring at my ADHD medication because I couldn't remember if I took it this morning. So clearly I don't sit still. Clearly I have a very big challenge with focus and medication helps me, But it doesn't help me when I don't remember if I took it because I won't double up on it So now I'm taking a risk even today So how I met Sarah

04:12 - 04:49
Speaker 1: We did a breathwork session together now I have done 1 or 2 breathwork sessions before and we'll get into what actually breathwork is because who knows if everybody knows but I have a really tough time sitting still and I have a very tough time meditating. And you know, I even when I meditate, it kind of needs to be guided or I need to be moving around or I find myself getting very fidgety and then I met and then I met someone who did breath work and I started a session with them and I couldn't handle it.

04:49 - 05:36
Speaker 1: It was loud, it was long, it felt like there was just so much work to it. I was getting more frustrated than before I started. And I thought, oh, breathwork isn't for me. And then I met Sarah. And I have now done 2 sessions with Sarah. And honestly, it transformed my ability to sit and tap in and clear the monkey brain. And we did it for an hour. And that hour went by like 10 minutes for me, I could not believe it was almost over. And it just, I don't know, Sarah's going to explain this because

05:36 - 06:16
Speaker 1: I don't know what it did to me. But if you have, my point is, if you have tried breath work once and it didn't work, you need to explore more options because a breathwork facilitator works with your needs and how you sit and how you think and how you breathe. It's all very individual. So if you've done like a generic YouTube breathwork, sometimes they're phenomenal. But if you've done it, and it didn't work for you, this stuff is so important and so, like it just blew me over, and I just could not believe how I felt

06:16 - 06:36
Speaker 1: even after the very first 1. So this is how we met and this is why I said, you gotta get on here because parents need every tool they can possibly have. And so let's start with, first of all, Sarah, what actually is breath work? And how does that work into your coaching it like how does that all work together?

06:36 - 07:26
Speaker 2: Yeah great question so as you noted there are tons of types of breath work out there. Cultures around the world have been using breath for healing for centuries, if not longer. It is a resource that we all have access to. And therefore, there are many different approaches to it. I love that you said if you've tried it once and it really didn't fit, feel like you can go and try different approaches because you're right, it depends on who is facilitating and their specific approach. So my approach is very grounded in safety. So I attract people who

07:26 - 07:53
Speaker 2: tend to be over thinkers, who are perhaps A-type personalities, people who are always on the go, and what they're really craving is permission to slow down. That doesn't always feel safe to us because it's foreign. Even when things aren't safe, they kind of seem like it when we're not paying attention because they're familiar. We're confusing safety and familiarity.

07:54 - 07:55
Speaker 1: Good point.

07:55 - 08:22
Speaker 2: Yeah. So when you start to purposely feel into your body and through my own guiding, that's where I focus. And so it is not about being over activated, which breath work can do with certain approaches. And that might be great for certain people who don't crave this grounded sense of safety first

08:23 - 08:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, so when your whole day is in over activity, yes, then you want the grounding. Yeah That was my case. Yeah. Yeah

08:33 - 09:18
Speaker 2: Yes, And it's so common because of our culture of go, go, go, achieve, achieve, achieve. You're never quite enough. You've always got to be reaching. This kind of counteracts that and what it's doing. So what breathwork does, and especially the slower, more grounded approach, it activates your parasympathetic system, which is your rest, digest. So we're, as humans, we have these 2 systems that are our nervous system. We're supposed to ping pong. So we do, it's not bad to be in that fight flight. It's not bad. The thing is, is we're living in that all the time

09:18 - 10:05
Speaker 2: and we're supposed to ping back and forth because that fight flight is like action. You're going, you're like motivated. You're going to go do something. That's amazing. We need that. And we need to be able to get back into that parasympathetic where you're resting, you're healing. And that means you're slower, you're purposeful, you're mindful. That's where the real growth happens. And then you ping back and you take action. So it breath work in my approach is teaching your system we all we all have this When we were born we all had this. Mm-hmm. And so it's

10:05 - 10:18
Speaker 2: just remembering. Your system will remember. And that's why it takes more than 1 session normally. It really depends on where you're at in your journey. Mm-hmm. And so it's a practice.

10:23 - 11:09
Speaker 1: So we're talking to parents and especially parents of teens where I feel like it is a constant Teens are teens are beautiful and I love teens, but I know there are challenges. You have working parents, you have new challenges like screens and schoolwork. We've gone through the pandemic, so there's new mental health issues, or more mental health issues. So as we're navigating breathwork, can we talk about how a parent, without even thinking about the teens right now for a second, how can a parent inject that breath work into their system to kind of foster, easing the

11:09 - 11:27
Speaker 1: stress, easing the tension? Like it's not, you know, it's not something you have to block out a half a day for, Right? So how do we inject that ourselves first? Like, you know, the whole put the oxygen mask on you first, everybody's heard that analogy. So how do we do it for us first as parents?

11:27 - 12:17
Speaker 2: Right. So exactly, Like we have all the responsibilities as adults in this modern day life, which it's a lot. And then you add in raising children, especially when they become teens and they're starting to push boundaries and develop that self concept was a really important part of their development. And it's really hard for adults. So allowing, allowing them to have space for that, I think starts with yourself. So first, what I would recommend is just practicing breath awareness. And so most of us tend to breathe pretty shallowly into our chest. It's not really getting in to

12:17 - 12:55
Speaker 2: where we want it to be Because we're unaware and that breath impacts our physical being and our emotional being so when we're breathing shallowly We tend to have faster pace paced heartbeats, you know, we're Kind of like in that like panic almost that go go go And then when an emotion comes up, like frustration or anger or disappointment, we just kind of lift off and we react because we don't have any space. We don't have space for ourselves, and we don't have space for others. I really think that starts with creating space for yourself. What that

12:55 - 13:38
Speaker 2: could be is putting sticky notes around yourself that remind you to pay attention to your breath and just notice it. You're sitting at your desk, you're driving, you're standing in line, wherever you can remember it and just notice, oh, and when you do notice how you're breathing, See if you can just take a little bit of a deeper breath. Notice if it goes into your belly and then just let yourself exhale. Just doing that once or twice, 5 times, whatever is accessible to you throughout your day will send signals to your system, your nervous system. Oh,

13:40 - 14:13
Speaker 2: it's okay to just be in this moment. You're not in the wrong spot. You're not behind because right now is all that matters. And when you do that, you create a little more space. So when those feelings of frustration come up or whatever it may be at work at home you have space to go oh how do I want to respond instead of just reacting it's slowly creating that space

14:15 - 15:00
Speaker 1: yeah and all I can picture is when you're in a confrontation with your team and There's that you like you said you either react or you respond but breath gives you that opportunity to pause And I feel like with all this, you know, verbal information coming at you from your teen, the big difference in your reaction would like, can you check in with your head right then and there to say, I don't have to react to this. I can just sit and listen and look at them, but inside I'm breathing. I'm just breathing because That gives

15:00 - 15:40
Speaker 1: you, I feel like that would give you the space to decide, okay, what's my next step in this interaction? Because how often, you know, I hate you, you're a jerk, you never let me do anything. Yes, I do. And it's just ping, bong, bong, bong, bong, bong, and it just never ends. Wherever you can take that, like you say, that space. I feel like that creates that opportunity to, okay, now I can respond. Exactly. And it's always available, like you said, it's always there, we just need to tap into it. So talk to us then about

15:42 - 16:24
Speaker 1: how can we cultivate this with our teens now like our teens are watching but how do we cultivate that self-awareness in our teens? I mean, the whole point even, not just of the show, of the whole show, the whole podcast is that, you know, our teens are, you know, wonderful, amazing, beautiful human beings and our parenting style sometimes does not foster them into becoming their own authentic selves. And I feel like if we could take a step back and show them what it's like to kind of live our own authentic life do things that make us

16:25 - 16:47
Speaker 1: feel calm and Centered and give ourselves space and give them space if they're watching us Eventually, they're gonna clue in that. This is something Yeah, so how do we how do we foster that with our kids at home? Like how do we give them the little tips and clues without saying you need to do this because we know that's never going to work.

16:48 - 17:42
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Honestly, I think you just named it. It is from my perspective, because we exactly like you said, teens and honestly most humans don't learn by being told what to do or think or be. They learn from their own experience and from watching others around them. So as a parent, when you take the time to learn the tools yourself and when you use them you're embodying it. You're embodying your truth. You're embodying that, oh I am worthy of slowing down, of resting, of living my best life, of being authentic to myself. When you do that and

17:42 - 18:23
Speaker 2: you show up for yourself, honestly, I think that's how you're teaching your team to do it because they're watching you. And then when they get curious enough, when those teens are like, whoa, my parent is like, amazing. They start asking, what are you doing? Or they've seen you breathing. They've seen you meditating. They've seen you writing. They have seen you taking time to care for yourself that they're like, how do I do that? And it opens that door without you having to push it open. There's no force. There's just a welcoming curiousness. Yeah.

18:24 - 19:15
Speaker 1: And I'm kind of picturing in the middle of that conversation with your teen being able to just say, I need a minute. Ask for your space because then that gives them permission to say, I need a minute. In any situation where they have to make a decision or a reaction or whatever, you know, it builds a habit into just thinking, oh, I'm totally entitled to saying I need a minute Mm-hmm. I Love that So talk to us about The your coach conscious coaching Breathwork, how do they work together? How do they kind of foster that 1

19:16 - 19:20
Speaker 1: goal? Like what is that 1 goal that comes out of conscious coaching and breath work?

19:21 - 20:08
Speaker 2: So it is essentially healing that mind-body connection. So the breath work is a physical and emotional practice. So it is helping you actually be aware of the physical sensations that are happening in your body that are related to the emotional experience that's happening in your body. Because as adults, many of us for so many reasons have a severed mind-body connection, which means we're just in our minds and they're kind of, you could use that phrase, the monkey mind, They're kind of doing their own thing and we're just here for the ride it seems like. So breathwork

20:08 - 20:55
Speaker 2: is bringing your awareness back into your body which then allows you and through this practice it allows you to release old emotions, old pain, things that are stuck from potentially your childhood within your body, your physical body, and your emotional body. It also through that process you learn that it's okay to feel your emotions. You learn how to process them so that new emotions that you experience don't have to be staying with you. They leave within that experience, they teach you, and then they move on. That is the breathwork portion. The reason I pair consciousness coaching

20:55 - 21:45
Speaker 2: with it is because that brings in the mind. So we have thoughts that are often pretty repetitive. We tend to spend a lot of time thinking, analyzing, rationalizing. That's that rational mind. It is a beautiful tool. However, I get the sense that, through my own experience and through working with others that It is in charge When that's not really true When we bring awareness We're like, oh we are this way and we will always be this way because that's just who I am. And that's not really true. So when you bring more awareness to your patterns,

21:45 - 22:25
Speaker 2: your thought patterns, your habits, the sort of triggers you're noticing, like triggers. You bring more awareness to that, you can start breaking them up. You can start creating some distance. Again, it's this distance from them to be like, oh, okay, I understand that I learned that way of seeing myself, of seeing others, seeing the world through this experience, and I've just held on to it. But I have a choice to choose differently. Now that I'm aware that I've been allowing this to influence my life so much and all my decisions have been frustrated by that outcome,

22:26 - 22:55
Speaker 2: I can choose something different. I can take the time to renegotiate how I believe the world is, how I believe I am, what I think about, where I put my attention and my time, I get to make a different choice. And suddenly, we're doing that, taking the actions and making the decisions that are aligned with our goals, because we've done that deeper inner work. And that's where the mind and the body work together.

22:57 - 23:42
Speaker 1: And that totally resonates with even how this podcast has evolved because it started out with, honestly, me just like, if your kid has a special need, this is what you do. This is how you advocate. This is how you talk to the teachers. And then as I started really talking to people. It's not that. It's starting here, starting with us and recognizing that there's so much of us that we can just give permission to and just give some space to. And if you think you've had the perfect childhood and everything is awesome, but your teenager does

23:42 - 24:26
Speaker 1: something and you get immediately triggered, guess what? There's some trauma there somewhere that needs to be released and there's your first clue. And you know it's just it's it's beautiful work I find because of with all the guests I have it always comes back to you know how can I find space for myself, permission for myself to just be who I actually am, and then impart that on these humans that I'm raising into the world? I want them to be themselves. And so there's different avenues, there's different paths, there's not a linear line to how to

24:26 - 25:04
Speaker 1: get there. And to give them permission to do that just by watching, I think it's so important. Like it's just, It's a movement, it's a shift that I think is so vital in this world. And I'm going to read, before we start talking about where to find you, this quote that's on your website that I don't stop looking at, I should have it memorized by now. In a world that looks like it's falling apart, it is an act of rebellion to believe that we have the power to change the story for the better. I love that

25:04 - 25:11
Speaker 1: quote. How did you come up with that? What does that mean to you? I know what it means to me because I think rebellion and teens, but what does it mean to you?

25:14 - 26:00
Speaker 2: So I came up with that hearing others speak about the end of the world and how when we look around, it feels like that. It also came from my own experience with deep depression a few years ago, and feeling like, what was the point? It was losing my own hope. And then I started questioning well why am I here? Is it just to suffer then? And through the work I've done and my own healing. I decided that I was here to make it better, that I was here to make a difference in my own unique way

26:01 - 26:45
Speaker 2: And that that was actually an act of rebellion against what I was being encouraged to see. What I was, if I chose to stay within that really hopeless, full of despair perspective, If I chose to stay there and I couldn't see this. So it was making, I was like I have the choice and this is where my power lives, is in the choice to see it a different way than what I'm being shown. There's so much good out there. And when I look for it, I find it.

26:46 - 27:20
Speaker 1: That's so good. That's so good. And I said this the very first time I read that quote that on your website, it's like, that is so impactful. And to me, when I read that, the first thing that comes to mind is, you know, our kids just want to go against whatever. They just want to go against, period. Right? Your way is lame. My way is better. They just want to go against. So this is an act of going against all this mainstream stuff that we see. All these, we don't have, and if everyone did this work,

27:21 - 27:45
Speaker 1: like it's a ripple effect. It doesn't just stay with you and in your little box, and it doesn't just stay within the 4 walls of your house, it ripples out like an energy force. So if everybody is doing this, oh my God, we're changing the world, period. Absolutely. 1 breath at a time.

27:45 - 27:47
Speaker 2: 1 breath at a time.

27:47 - 28:08
Speaker 1: Love it. Love it. This is really great, Sarah. And like I said, I highly recommend everybody try this. And if it doesn't work the first time, try it again. Or just go to Sarah in the first place, because that's what worked for me. But Sarah, where can we find you? How can we work with you? Tell us all the good things.

28:09 - 28:44
Speaker 2: All right, so I am on Instagram, and I am on LinkedIn for social media, which will direct you to my website, which is really where all the good stuff lives. And so you'll see the programs that I offer. I'm launching a 3 month program that includes breath work and consciousness coaching that begins in May of 2024. I also offer just breathwork if that's where you are at your journey then that's where you get to start. And I offer one-to-one. So most of those are group and then I offer one-to-one services.

28:44 - 28:46
Speaker 1: And all ages? Is there an age range?

28:47 - 29:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's all ages. Really, it's for humans that are just ready. And honestly, when I say ready, I mean willing. You can come with fear, you can come with self-doubt, those are just human experiences. How can they ever go away until you're not a human? So know that when I say ready, I mean that you're giving yourself permission to try. To show up as you are, knowing you don't need to be anything else. I love it.

29:21 - 29:26
Speaker 1: Any question I didn't ask you wanted me to ask? Any last words you wanna share?

29:29 - 30:07
Speaker 2: I guess The thought that comes to mind is courage. That really, I think stories I've heard from other people who are on the journey of awakening, which is really just becoming more aware of ourselves and how we function in the world. It always starts with courage. It always starts with, I have this slight sense that there's something different out there for me. And then it's that little bit of courage to pursue it and open that door and be willing to try.

30:09 - 30:30
Speaker 1: I love it. We get 1 shot. This isn't a dress rehearsal, 1 shot. Yeah. I love it. Thank you so much, Sarah. Thank you for listening to Teen Minds Redefined. Once again, our beautiful guest, Sarah Thorne. Go check her out. Everything will be in the show notes and I really appreciate you listening. I'm grateful for the work that you do, Sarah, especially for me personally. Thank you.

32 min

About Parenting Teens: Advice Redefined for Today's Complex World

From the publisher's feed

"Discover ''Parenting Teens : Advice Redefined for Today's Complex World" with Special Education Specialist / Educator Cheryl, as we dive into real and raw conversations about sex, drugs, screens, social media, LGBTQ+ issues, mental health, and more. This podcast is your guide to reimagining better relationships with teens by doing the essential inner work. Join us for engaging, vibrant, and empathetic discussions that foster trust and understanding in today's complex parenting landscape. Embrace the change,we just can’t parent the way our parents did”

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Parenting Teens: Advice Redefined for Today's Complex World

Parenting Teens: Advice Redefined for Today's Complex World episodes

About Parenting Teens: Advice Redefined for Today's Complex World