Passle CMO Series Podcast

Law firms are no longer operating in a period of stability; they require momentum. Marketing leaders are expected to evolve alongside the business, retrofitting strategy around lateral growth, proving value through data, and guiding attorneys who are neither new nor at the top. 

In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, we’re joined by Kathryn Whitaker, Chief Marketing Officer at Burr & Forman, to explore how her leadership and strategic approach have adapted since her first appearance on the podcast back in 2022. 

Kathryn shares insights into how marketing supports opportunistic expansion, the shift toward outcome-driven metrics, and why mid-career attorneys might be the biggest missed opportunity in law firm growth strategy today.

Kathryn and Eugene discuss:

What does it take to modernise a 450-year-old law firm without losing the legacy that makes it iconic? Charlotte Eberlein, Head of Marketing and Business Development at Thomson Snell & Passmore, has spent over a decade answering that question in real-time. She has built a business development culture from the ground up, brought PR in-house, and helped the firm deliver big law impact on a regional budget. 

In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Charlotte joins Will Eke to talk through that journey and the lessons she’s learned along the way.

Charlotte and Will cover: 

Driving business development in a mid-sized regional firm is rarely about large budgets. It’s about sharp strategy, creativity and the ability to make every action count. In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Kelley Goes, Member and Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Jackson Kelly, joins Alex Haidar to share how her unconventional career path has shaped her bold, practical approach to legal marketing and BD.

Kelley’s journey began as a litigator at Akin Gump, moving into public service as West Virginia’s Secretary of Commerce, and later serving as State Operations Director for Joe Manchin. Having been a private practitioner, a public servant, the client and the lawyer to the client, she brings a uniquely rounded perspective to her role at Jackson Kelly.

Today, she leads marketing and BD for the firm with a focus on clarity, confidence and doing more with less. She talks openly about defining the right target audiences, supporting lean teams and introducing new tools without losing lawyers along the way. Her leadership philosophy, shaped by years working with high-stakes decision-makers, is grounded in authenticity, accountability and lifting up the people around her.

Kelley and Alex discuss:

For this year’s Thanksgiving edition of the CMO Series Podcast, we bring together an outstanding group of legal marketing leaders to reflect on the people and practices that have shaped their careers. What emerges is a clear and compelling message about the importance of trust, collaboration and shared generosity in building strong marketing teams and firm cultures.

Thank you to our special guests for sharing their insights:

Across the episode, they share how firms can build environments where collaboration truly thrives. Creating space for people to contribute, recognising effort, supporting new ideas and giving credit freely all strengthen teams and empower talent to grow.

Their reflections remind us that the most successful organisations are built on trust and a genuine willingness to lift others up. It’s a thoughtful and timely conversation for this season of gratitude.

Wishing you a wonderful Thanksgiving.

If you’re a law firm marketer, you know the pressure of balancing attorney demands, limited resources, and the need to stay genuinely strategic. The job is more than execution. It requires sharp prioritization and a steady, trusted voice over time.

In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Alex Haidar talks with Jocelyn Brumbaugh, Founder of Builden Partners and legal marketing leader with experience at firms such as Foley & Lardner, Baker McKenzie, and Citadel. She shares practical, process-focused guidance to make marketing effective where it truly counts.

They discuss the skills legal marketers need to thrive, from earning attorney loyalty to influencing decisions with confidence and preparing the next generation to succeed.

Jocelyn shares:

Most law firm CMOs agree that cross-selling is the fastest and most cost-effective way to grow law firm revenue. Yet, our latest research shows that 84% of law firms are missing out on these opportunities.

The biggest barriers to cross-selling success are awareness and trust. Lawyers need the confidence to refer work which requires trust across teams, and they need visibility into the full scope of the firm’s expertise so they know what their colleagues actually do.

That’s where CrossPitch AI comes in. At a recent CMO Series event in London, Connor Kinnear unpacked the challenges, the opportunities, and how AI can help firms finally make cross-selling happen.

In this special edition of the CMO Series Podcast, Connor dives deeper into:

The ongoing challenge of cross-selling, and why it remains so important

How Passle’s CrossPitch AI helps firms connect the dots

What’s behind the impressive engagement results clients are seeing

How the new Cross-Selling Intelligence Map makes collaboration visible

Making an impact in business development isn’t about following a script; it’s about finding what works, what doesn’t, and where you can really move the needle. Through the power of listening and successful automation strategies, important client relationships can be strengthened. 

Today on the Passle CMO Series podcast, Charles is joined by Charlotte Watt, Head of Business Development at Brabners, to hear about her journey from the British Army to BD in the legal sector, and how her early career experiences shaped her people-first and results-driven approach.

With nearly two years at the firm, Charlotte shares many key insights that she has learned along the way. From navigating the challenges of stepping into law to developing practical initiatives involving structure, coaching and human touch. 

Charlotte and Charles discuss:

Implementing a seamless Content Management System that is able to grow alongside the firm in the long-term should be a top priority within law firms digital strategies. Through extended team collaboration, firms can create a shared vision for suitable future marketing technology, ensuring flexibility and scalability, while also boosting efficiency and SEO.

Today on the Passle CMO Series Digital Masterclass Podcast, we’re diving into CMS for the legal sector, a crucial part of a firm’s marketing and business development toolkit.

Carrie Dyer, Digital Account Director at Appius, a company with deep experience in the legal market, with clients including Freshfields and Ashurst, joins us to discuss how firms can choose the right CMS.

Carrie shares her insights on:

Live from the Lex Mundi Americas Regional Marketing and Business Development Roundtable in Denver, this special episode of the CMO Series Podcast dives into Cross-Selling in Practice.

Ali Bone is joined by Susan Lee Hollender, Chief Growth Officer at Michael Best & Friedrich, to explore how firms can move from intention to action.

Drawing on insights from Passle’s AI & Cross-Selling Report 2025, the conversation unpacks what’s working across the Lex Mundi network, the barriers that hold firms back, and what clients truly want to see.

From building trust and awareness to proven approaches and success stories, Susan and Ali discuss the practical lessons and ideas for how firms can make cross-selling easier and more impactful.

In an industry where tradition often outweighs transformation, building trust and influence is the foundation for earning long-term credibility and needs to start from within.

In today’s must-listen episode of the CMO Series podcast, Eugene speaks with Jennifer Stokes, Senior Director of Marketing and Business Development at Shipman & Goodwin, to explore her long-awaited insights into the importance of earning trust and credibility internally.

With nearly two decades at the firm, Jen brings a unique perspective on what it takes to earn trust in a legacy-driven law firm. From navigating leadership dynamics to championing the role of marketing at the strategic table, Jen has played a key role in reshaping how BD and marketing are perceived and prioritized.

Eugene and Jennifer cover: