In this episode of Creating a New Healthcare, Dr. Neuwirth interviews Devin Gross, who very recently left EMMI, after many years of success at the helm, as CEO.   What becomes abundantly apparent in this dialogue is that Devin is not only a talented executive, but that he has also garnered tremendous insights into patient engagement during his 14 years at EMMI.  Topics covered include: (1) the value proposition and ROI of patient engagement; (2) the essential understanding of the differences between patient education, patient experience & patient engagement;  and (3) the two, very different, persona’s of the patient and consumer, and why each must be addressed in order for providers to be successful in a value based market.  This is a not-to-be missed episode for anyone who is interested in this most critical topic of patient engagement – potentially the ‘holy grail’ of valued based care.