This episode was recorded for my UK Column show.

Jerm and Roman Bystrianyk chat about the long-standing debates around vaccines, especially the smallpox vaccine, questioning the dominant narrative that credits vaccines alone for eradicating disease.

They suggest that improved living conditions, sanitation, and nutrition during the 19th-century health revolution played a far bigger role in reducing illness than vaccines did. In fact, there’s no evidence that vaccines had any positive net benefit.

Roman’s book, Dissolving Illusions, has been influential in shifting how people see vaccination, highlighting historical data that challenges the idea of vaccines as the primary saviour of public health . The conversation touches on how public perception can take on a cult-like fervour, often ignoring complex factors in favour of simplistic stories.

They stress that how data is presented shapes beliefs, and that lifestyle choices are crucial to preventing disease.

Ultimately, they argue for greater awareness and education to help people look beyond mainstream claims and think critically about health.

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