1. Jason: PMF is not finite “the wave is just starting, it’s very easy to get crushed by a wave” once you achieve it, you have to maintain it, advance it, adapt to customer demand.
2. Jason emphasized the importance of being able to have a 1:10 ratio of: "perception of the amount of change vs the perception of the amount of value that can be delivered". I found this brilliant and adapted it on our website right after our call!

1. PMF is based on phase: 1) brut force phase to go from $0-1M ARR. Scrappy, prototype vibes. 1-3 people.
2. $1-10M phase, larger group but very much unnatural heroic effort. 20 people team… Still doing things that don’t scale… But that’s what drove his company to 10M.
3. Going from $10-100M is a completely different motion. Process and symptoms. “This is the year of process and systems” polish the edges, smoother, more repeatable.
4. ICP is critical. Discipline around that is key. As he tried to expand ICP he was constantly in search of PMF.

1. Extreme ownership
2. Culture code
3. Radical Candor
4. Don’t make me think
5. Product Led Onboarding & Growth

We interviewed Ted Julian the founder of Resilient, a cyber security company that was acquired by IBM. We spoke about Resilient's path from 0 to the acquisition, what PMF means in an enterprise, and cyber security world, and what key facets are relevant when scaling PMF. Today, Ted Julian is a Venture Partner at Glasswing Ventures, an angel investor, as well as the CEO and founder of a stealth venture.

Key takeaways that we loved:

1. PMF is all about repeatability (something we resonate with very much; CAC, target persona, wow moments, etc.!)

2. As a B2B product you’re either making a market or disrupting a market.

3. It's the team's job to balance the vision between the customer pain point and the ideal solution. Just because the customer has a problem, does not mean that they know what the best solution is!

Links:

1. Ted Julian's LinkedIn

Books Recommended:

1. 4 Steps to the Epiphany - David Blank (On company building)

2. Inspired - Marty Kagen (On Strategy)

3. Lean Product Playbook - Dan Olsen (On Execution)

4. 5 Dysfunctions of a Team (On Culture) - Patrick M Lencioni

5. Play Bigger (On Growth) - Al Ramadan, Dave Peterson, Christopher Lochhead, Kevin Maney

Jag is one of Europe's most active angel investors, making 20+ investments per year. Jag has invested in over 200 companies (personally and as a GP) for 10-12 years. Jag is also the author of Amazon best seller "Message Machines" (link below)

Key takeaways from our chat:

1. There is no definition of PMF. It’s different for all companies.

2. Companies fail because they scale prematurely.

3. If you're struggling with PMF, or you're pre launch, "f*ck PMF - find Investor Market Fit!"

4. Our personal favorite quote: "PMF is more of a feeling than a metric."

Advice for 2023: be transparent to all stakeholders on what’s happening. Investor messaging vs customer messaging.

https://www.amazon.com/MESSAGE-MACHINE-Communications-Unstoppable-Founder/dp/3982108845

NorthOne is a US challenger bank, that banks over 250,000 small businesses and has raised over $90M in capital. We sat down with Eytan Bensoussan, CEO and Founder.

Key take aways:

1. Relentless, customer obsession through PMF

2. Building an audience offline and online, pre launch helped them grow rapidly

3. “PMF is not found, it’s built”

The biggest takeaway for us, was really the customer obsession in building the product and the service. Meeting the customer right at where they're at was critical for their ongoing success!

Jens Lapinski is General Partner and Founder of Angel Invest, one of Europe's most active pre seed and seed stage funds. Angel Invest invests in 50 companies pre seed and seed companies per year.

Jens is also a former founder and operator turned VC, who has seen 100+ companies go through product market fit iterations.

Jens is also an investor in Index Health (Luka's company) so I've personally seen Jens in action and Jens is one of the best, and most knowledgable people on finding PMF, and scaling it!

We discuss process, iterations, feedback, and qualities all founders should have (quick iterations).

Resources:

4 Steps to the Epiphany

The Category Design Tool Kit

We sat down with Michal Rokosz, founder and General Partner of Inovo Ventures, a $100M fund focused on Central Eastern European founders and companies that are global. Inovo has raised 3 funds, totaling $162 million making it one of CEE largest VC funds. Inovo is based in Poland.

Michal, who was a previous operator and now turned VC discussed his experiences with his own companies, but also others on how his portfolio has found product market fit, what metrics to focus on, and what VCs look for and why.

About Michal and Inovo:

Michael Rokosz: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mrokosz/

Inovo Ventures: https://inovo.vc/

Articles and resources mentioned:

Andrew Chen: https://andrewchen.com/

Point Nine: https://medium.com/point-nine-news

Food Panda: https://www.foodpanda.com/

Booksy :https://booksy.com/

Recording #2 with Niklas Jansen, Founder of Blinkist who's USP is "Understand books & podcasts in 15 minutes." Today, Niklas is a General Partner at Interface Capital, an early stage venture capital fund.

We discussed:

1. How it took the founding team of Blinkist 2-3 years to find PMF

2. Why starting first without tech is important

3. Why monetization is key from day 1

Articles and books referenced:

How Superhuman Built an Engine to Find Product Market Fit

Crossing the Chasm - Geoffrey Moore

Mastering the Rockefeller Habits - Verne Harnish

Have any feedback? Let us know on twitter @Jessica_Hbach or @lukaivicev

Today, we'll discuss how Penta Bank (www.getpenta.com) found PMF. Penta has raised over $80M in capital, acquired over 50K small business customers.

This is PMF Cafe first podcast recording by the hosts, Jessica Holzbach of www.pile.capital and Luka Ivicevic of www.indexclinic.com, both founders of Germany's largest bank for small businesses, Penta Bank recently acquired by Qonto.

PMF Café is a podcast that helps founders find PMF by learning from the best.