Where's the best place to make money in podcasting in 2025?

In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky speaks with Dane Cardiel, Founder and Publisher of Good Tape, about the business, culture, and ethics of the podcasting industry. Dane shares his "two answers" to the question of where the money is, the crucial role of community, and his journey from being the first non-CTO employee at Simplecast to launching a physical print magazine dedicated to the craft of audio.

As he puts it:

“Podcasting... really is one of the only mediums a talent can actually have ownership over and really control their voice, their distribution, their monetization, sort of the full stack that other mediums really don't have any access to.”

Here are some insightful moments within the episode:

• Where Dane Cardiel believes the money is in podcasting—with a hot take and a deep dive into community-building.

• The "Autonomous" and "Participatory" community quadrants where financial success is located.

• The ethics and responsibility of the podcast medium, which allows talent to control their voice, distribution, and monetization.

• Dane's journey from being the first non-CTO employee at Simplecast to a VP role in ad tech.

• The one key mistake Dane observed in ad sales: the widespread lack of audience surveys.

• Why Good Tape, a physical magazine, was created to elevate cultural coverage and shift the industry to be more active in the broader "creator economy."

Dane Cardiel is the Founder and Publisher of Good Tape, an independent print magazine and creative studio dedicated to the craft and culture of podcasting. He previously held leadership positions at several podcast companies, including serving as VP of Creator Partnerships at Gumball and being an early employee at Simplecast.

Connect with Dane on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danecardiel/

Check out Dane's write up, Cashing In On Podcast Communities: https://offtherecrd.substack.com/p/cashing-in-on-podcast-communities

Episode Chapters

(00:00) The tea is hot

(01:07) Welcome to Podbiz & Introducing Dane Cardiel

(01:37) Where is the money in podcasting?

(02:18) The second answer: Community

(03:09) Dane's community chart and quadrants

(04:58) Discussing Good Tape and Dane's advocacy

(08:29) Podcasting as a double-edged sword and medium ownership

(11:07) "We're going to grow old together" and shared values in the industry  

(16:40) Dane's career trajectory: Simplecast  

(18:46) Selling air: the enterprise side of Simplecast  

(21:51) Transition to ad tech: Headgum and Gumball  

(23:38) What podcast categories sell in ad tech  

(25:41) The biggest learning in ad sales: the lack of audience surveys  

(30:42) The Good Tape journey  

(35:12) Key moves and mindset: producers and 'business-leaning' talent  

(37:00) The difficulties in the industry (layoffs, competition)  

(39:03) The future of audio-only and community  

(45:16) If starting over, what Dane would do differently  

(45:36) What Dane is most excited about: Creator Economy

Some Additional PodBiz Buzz…

“The ability to influence that ability to oscillate that that shared equilibrium of values like, to a center that I feel more comfortable with... that feels like it's within my control.”“We have to be in this like new entertainment space and be a contributor to that conversation, not just a passive recipient of it.”

PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?

Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.

Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What does it really take to build a business that lasts in podcasting?

In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan talk with Randi P’Pool, Founder and CEO of P’Pool Media, about the realities of leading a modern media agency — from scaling teams and navigating client departures to redefining what creative success actually looks like. Randi shares lessons from two decades in broadcast and marketing and the shift from corporate structures to the agility of podcasting. It’s a candid look at leadership, adaptation, and what happens when you build a business that reflects the people behind it.

As she puts it:

“You have to learn to pivot. If something isn’t working, stop trying to force it to look like success.”
Here are some insightful moments within the episode:

• Why adaptability is the key to long-term success in podcast marketing

• How to recover when a major client leaves — and what it teaches you about leadership

• Why authenticity and consistency still outperform “corporate buzzword speak”

• The shift from broadcast culture to agile, creator-led podcasting

• How fractional teams and partnerships can scale creative businesses

• The emotional side of entrepreneurship and protecting your confidence

• What the future of podcast marketing looks like for agencies and creators alike

Randi P’Pool is the Founder and CEO of P’Pool Media, a full-service marketing agency working with B2B and B2C podcast companies. With over twenty years of experience in media, she helps creators, networks, and brands build marketing strategies that connect, convert, and sustain. Randi’s work bridges traditional broadcast expertise with the adaptability of today’s podcast industry, emphasizing creative integrity and measurable results.

Connect with Randi on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/randi-p-pool-75872520/

Episode Chapters

(00:00) Opening | Defining the real business of podcast marketing

(02:14) From corporate broadcasting to entrepreneurship | Randi’s leap into ownership

(06:42) Strategy over spin | Finding the right message for the right audience

(09:22) Authenticity in content | Why “busy buzzword speak” doesn’t work

(10:02) Leadership lessons | Building and managing a business that scales

(17:53) Fractional teams | How integration keeps clients growing

(19:51) The never-off entrepreneur | Boundaries and balance in creative work

(20:43) Learning from loss | Navigating client departures with perspective

(23:13) The future of podcast marketing | Why evolution keeps it exciting

Some Additional PodBiz Buzz…“It’s devastating not only to your ego but financially when a client leaves. You have to learn to take those in stride.”“People are going to say no. Knowing that things happen at the right time has been the biggest mindset shift.”“I’m a Leo and I like to be my own boss.”“You have to learn to pivot. If something isn’t working, stop trying to force it to look like success.”“Look at the stage. We’re all friends. That’s the best part of this industry.”

PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?

Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.

Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

How do you build a podcast that earns from every direction while keeping its creative core intact?

In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky speaks with Jack Levy, Creator, Producer, Director, Entrepreneur and Co-Founder & COO of Manifest Media Productions and creator of Table Read, the scripted series that brought Hollywood’s table-read tradition to podcasting. Jack shares how he turned creativity, collaboration, and business acumen into what he calls a “360 monetization” model that keeps storytelling at the center.

As he puts it:

“Money in podcasts is like a goddamn Easter egg hunt when you’re three. Everyone’s chasing the biggest egg, but if you’re paying attention, you’ll fill your basket with smaller ones that are worth even more.”
Here are some insightful moments within the episode

• What 360 monetization really means for creators and producers

• How Table Read turned community and collaboration into revenue

• Why partnerships and product alignment can be more valuable than ads

• How fiction and storytelling remain untapped business opportunities

• The importance of patience, quality, and purpose in building a brand

• What Jack wishes every independent podcaster understood about growth

Jack Levy is the Co-Founder of Manifest Media Productions and the creator of Table Read, a scripted podcast that transforms Hollywood’s creative process into audio storytelling. With a background in film and production, Jack’s work bridges creative culture with sustainable business practices, helping creators turn great stories into profitable ventures.

Connect with Jack on IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0506446/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacklevyanefx/

The Table Read Podcast Website: https://www.tablereadpodcast.com/

Listen to The Table Read Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/grg-the-pod/id1809713147?i=1000710066981

Episode Chapters

(00:00) Opening | Defining the 360-degree view of monetization

(02:19) Table Read | How the concept started and found its audience

(06:42) Building a business | Early partnerships and first wins

(10:33) Collaboration | Why aligned partners matter more than ad spend

(14:51) Storytelling and sustainability | Keeping creativity profitable

(19:03) Fiction podcasts | Why narrative formats are still wide open

(23:28) Audience growth | Building and maintaining a real community

(28:15) Easter eggs | What real monetization looks like in practice

(32:57) Lessons learned | Advice for new creators

(36:44) What’s next | The future of Table Read and Manifest Media

Some Additional PodBiz Buzz…“You can’t pay people to care. You have to make something they believe in.”“I just decided to stop waiting for somebody else to fund the thing I wanted to make.”“The whole point of podcasting for me is the freedom to create without waiting for permission.”

PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?

Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.

Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Can storytelling really be the most valuable skill in podcasting- and in business?

In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky speaks with Laura Joyce Davis, CEO of Narrative Podcasts and Managing Editor of the Stanford Storytelling Project, about the power of narrative podcasting. Laura shares how she went from launching Shelter in Place on the first day of lockdown to producing 200 episodes, founding a company, and now teaching podcasting at Stanford and Google.

As she puts it:

“The magic happens in the revision process. That’s where professional growth, creative breakthroughs, and the best ideas live.”

Here are some insightful moments within the episode:

• Why storytelling is the most valuable skill in podcasting
• How Shelter in Place became both a lifeline and a launchpad
• Why the revision process matters more than quick wins
• The importance of separating ‘creator brain’ from ‘marketer brain’
• Building an audience before launching a podcast
• How AI can serve as a creative companion, not a replacement

Laura Joyce Davis is the CEO of Narrative Podcasts and Managing Editor of the Stanford Storytelling Project. She created the award-winning Shelter in Place, has trained dozens of emerging podcasters, and now teaches storytelling at Stanford, Stanford Continuing Studies, and Google. She is also writing a forthcoming book on narrative podcasting.

Connect with Laura on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/laurajoycedavis/

Learn more at Narrative Podcasts: www.narrativepodcasts.com

Episode Chapters

00:00 – Storytelling as a vital skill

01:47 – Can you really make money in podcasting?

05:00 – How narrative podcasting builds life skills

07:28 – Shelter in Place: a pandemic project becomes a career

11:12 – Learning by doing: 200 episodes, zero training wheels

13:06 – Why revision is where the magic happens

17:52 – Building Narrative Podcasts to train new creators

22:12 – From burnout to Stanford

25:29 – The mindset shift that makes or breaks creators

29:08 – Creator brain vs. marketer brain

32:31 – The community power of podcasting

33:28 – If starting over, what Laura would do differently

37:31 – AI as a creative companion

Some Additional PodBiz Buzz…“Good work will always stand the test of time.”“When you can turn research and interviews into a great story, that’s the skill that will bring money, profit, and success to you.”“You don’t become an expert until you learn by doing — over and over again.”

PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?

Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.

Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

How do you pitch your podcast so it actually gets noticed?

In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky speaks with Alice Florence Orr, Staff Writer and Managing Editor at Podcast Review and BBC Radio contributor, about the realities of podcast PR, pitching, and discoverability. Alice shares the common mistakes creators make when pitching their shows, how to think beyond “industry validation,” and why audio-only podcasts still have a unique space in the market.

As she puts it:

“Most pitches fail because they don’t tell me why the podcast matters to an audience.”
Here are some insightful moments within the episode:

• Why “selling IP” isn’t the only way to make money in podcasting
• The pitfalls of podcast PR and what makes a pitch stand out
• How independent creators can leverage ads, subscriptions, and branded partnerships
• Why discoverability remains the industry’s biggest challenge
• The future of audio-only podcasts in a video-saturated market

Alice Florence Orr is the Managing Editor of Podcast Review and a BBC Radio contributor. Her work focuses on podcast criticism, media strategy, and discoverability, helping creators understand how to reach new audiences. She is also an active voice on LinkedIn, writing about podcasting, media, and culture.

🔗 Connect with Alice on LinkedIn

📖 Read her work on Podcast Review

Episode Chapters

00:52 – The Money Question | Where Alice sees revenue opportunities

01:44 – Independent Podcasting | Models beyond the big network buyout

04:21 – Reviewing Genres | Why niches and listening habits matter

07:25 – Finding Your Audience | Reverse-engineering discoverability

09:02 – Pitching Mistakes | What not to do in press releases

13:19 – What Reviewers Need | How to make your podcast pitch stand out

17:17 – Discoverability Challenges | Why apps alone won’t get you found

23:38 – Getting Into Podcasting | Alice’s career journey and BBC contributions

27:34 – Looking Ahead | Why audio still matters in a video-first world

Some Additional PodBiz Buzz...“Just because… if you want to make a million dollars, you’ve got to sell your podcast. That doesn’t mean that’s the only way to have a career in this industry.”“You can have a really successful podcast with only a few hundred dedicated listeners.”“If it ain’t working and you don’t feel like it’s a fit, maybe you should just move on and try something else.”

PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?

Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.

Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What does it take to build podcasting from the ground up, and keep it independent?

In this episode of PodBiz, recorded before his unexpected passing last week, Todd Cochran, Founder & CEO of Blubrry Podcasting, joined Norma Jean Belenky to share his perspective on the realities of monetization, the future of the industry, and why creators must first serve their audiences.

As James Cridland wrote in an obituary published in Podnews, “Todd Cochrane was a fierce proponent of open RSS and building your podcast on your own website… Ever willing to help progress the industry, Todd was always interested to learn and make friends with anyone in podcasting.” His words in this conversation are a reminder of just how much one person can shape an industry.

As he put it:

“If you want to make money in this space, you have to first deliver value to your audience.”
Here are some insightful moments within the episode:

• Why podcasters should build community before chasing ads
• The download thresholds that really matter to advertisers (10K–50K)
• Subscription models and listener support as alternative revenue streams
• Why transparency and vulnerability create lasting trust
• How independent voices and audio-first strategies continue to shape the industry

Todd Cochran was the Founder & CEO of Blubrry Podcasting, a pioneer in hosting and monetization. A Navy veteran, author of one of the first books on podcasting, and longtime host of Geek News Central, Todd helped establish podcasting as a professional medium. His leadership empowered countless independent podcasters to find their voice, their audience, and their sustainability.

We’re deeply grateful to have recorded this conversation with Todd, and we honor his legacy in podcasting.

Episode Chapters

01:26 – Monetization Realities | Why most creators shouldn’t chase ads first

04:22 – The Numbers That Matter | When agencies start paying attention

07:32 – Beyond Ads | Subscriptions and listener support

10:16 – Building Trust | Transparency, vulnerability, and audience connection

13:46 – Early Days | Hosting, GoDaddy, and growing the ecosystem

19:11 – Hitting Record | Why starting is the hardest—and most important—step

24:27 – Practical Advice | “Record for your audience. Write for Google.”

32:39 – From Niche to Mainstream | The growth of podcasting at scale

36:16 – Future of Revenue | Ads, acquisitions, and industry shifts

37:14 – Why Audio-First Still Wins | Todd’s advice for new podcasters

Some Additional PodBiz Buzz… “Record for your audience. Write for Google.” “The reality is, unless you’re getting 10,000 to 50,000 downloads an episode, the agencies just aren’t going to pay attention.” “It’s not about being perfect. It’s about being present.” “Independent voices built podcasting, and they’re still the backbone of the industry today.”

PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?

Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.

Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Are downloads still the right way to measure podcast success?

In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky speaks with Dan Misener, co-founder of Bumper, about why the download has lost its value as the industry’s currency and what new measures should define growth. Dan shares how brands like Ford and Shopify are rethinking ROI, what top-of-funnel really means for branded podcasts, and why audience clarity is the key to sustainable strategy.

As he puts it:

“Why are we selling the number that’s declining? Why are we not selling the number that’s going up?”
Here are some insightful moments within the episode:

• The limits of downloads as a measure of success
• Verified listeners, time spent, and playback as stronger metrics
• Why branded podcasts often win on top-of-funnel strategy
• What Bumper has learned from working with companies like Ford and Shopify
• How creators and publishers should define growth before chasing it

Dan Misener is the co-founder of Bumper, a podcast growth and strategy company. Previously head of audience development at Pacific Content, Dan has worked with brands including Ford, Shopify, Slack, and Dell on award-winning shows. With a background in public broadcasting at CBC, he has become one of podcasting’s most influential voices on measurement, growth, and the evolving value of audio.

Connect with Dan on LinkedIn.

Learn more at wearebumper.com.

Episode Chapters

01:15 – Where’s the Money? | How brands monetize podcasts directly and indirectly

04:15 – Top of Funnel | What Shopify taught Dan about brand shows

07:33 – Brand ROI | What Ford and the Met want from podcasting

12:23 – The Death of the Download | Why it’s no longer the right yardstick

16:47 – Verified Listeners & Playback | Measuring people, not impressions

20:26 – Audience Clarity | Why knowing who you serve drives growth

24:23 – The Hidden Work | Why good podcasting looks effortless but isn’t

27:54 – Redefining Growth | Asking the right questions before you scale

28:46 – Looking Ahead | A new era of measurement and sustainability

Some Additional PodBiz Buzz…“The smartest teams we’re working with are actively working on de-risking their podcast businesses because the download number… I don’t think that’s coming back.”“When podcasting works, it looks really easy. What people don’t see is the hundreds of decisions behind the scenes that make it successful.”“The least successful shows we’ve worked with have tried to reach everybody.”“Growth looks different to every single creator and brand out there. The key is clarity on what growth means for you.”“I am excited by a renewed interest in the measures that matter: people, playback, and time spent.”

PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?

Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.

Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

At what point does a podcast become a business that advertisers want to invest in?

In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan sit down with Heather Osgood, founder of True Native Media and host of The Podcast Advertising Playbook, to talk about what really matters in podcast monetization today.

Heather shares nearly a decade of experience connecting podcasters and advertisers, from the realities of download thresholds to how long it takes to close a brand deal, to why host-read ads remain central even as programmatic grows.

As she puts it:

“Most people prefer the host-read ad. You’re going to have a better result with a host-read ad. But when we can sprinkle in the programmatic as well, it really helps round out a whole monetization strategy.”
Here are some insightful moments from the episode:

• Why podcasters need to start thinking of themselves as content creators across platforms
• The ongoing strength of host-read ads and where programmatic fits in
• What 5K, 25K, and 100K monthly downloads really mean in ad sales
• How long it can actually take to secure brand dollars (hint: it’s not overnight)
• Why technology and easier buying paths are the next frontier for podcast ads

Heather Osgood is the founder of True Native Media, a podcast representation agency specializing in podcast advertising. With a background in radio sales and a love for podcasting, Heather has become an influential voice in the space. She’s a frequent speaker at events like Podcast Movement and PodFest, and she hosts the podcast, The Podcast Advertising Playbook, where she educates creators and advertisers alike on how to make podcast ads work. When she’s not connecting brands and shows, she’s hiking or spending time with her family at the beach.

Connect with Heather on LinkedIn.

Learn more at truenativemedia.com.

Episode Chapters

01:29 – Where’s the Money? | Why advertising still drives podcast revenue

03:21 – Podcasters or Content Creators? | Shifting how the industry thinks about influence

04:58 – Host-Read vs. Programmatic | What listeners and advertisers actually prefer

07:55 – Starting True Native Media | Heather’s journey from radio to podcast ad sales

14:13 – Brand Dollars Take Time | Why long sales cycles are part of the process

19:07 – Download Thresholds | 5K, 25–50K, and 100K monthly downloads explained

21:33 – Lessons Learned | Why Heather wishes she’d built tech sooner

23:41 – Looking Ahead | Podcasters as influencers and the next stage for ad buys

Some Additional PodBiz Buzz…“If I start calling on Toyota today, I’ll be lucky if I get them to place ads on your show next year.”“If you want individualized representation, I would aim for more like 25 to 50 thousand downloads per month.”“I’ve stopped referring to our podcasters as podcasters and started referring to them as content creators.”“If I could go back, I would start the technology side of our company sooner.”

PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?

Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.

Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

How can pay transparency change the podcast industry for the better?

In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky speaks with Erin McGregor, Program Manager at the Association of Independents in Radio (AIR), about the newly released 2025 AIR Rate Guide and why setting industry standards matters for freelancers and hiring managers alike. Erin shares insights on building sustainable careers, the role of mentorship, and how community is often the most valuable investment independent audio professionals can make.

As she puts it:

“The year I stopped taking work below my bottom line, I broke six figures as an independent.”

Here are some insightful moments from the episode:

• How AIR’s 2025 Rate Guide was built and why it’s a critical industry tool
• The link to AIR's 2025 Rate Guide: https://airmedia.org/tools/2025-rate-guide
• The most common reasons freelancers undercharge for their work
• How community and peer networks can shape professional growth
• The role of advocacy in protecting independent creators
• Why mentorship can accelerate your career in audio
• The future of audience engagement and live podcast events

Erin McGregor is the Program Manager at AIR, where she oversees SoundPath, AIR’s training platform for the audio industry, and leads initiatives in pay transparency, mentorship, and professional development. A former freelancer and self-taught audio producer, Erin brings deep experience in community building and creator advocacy.

Connect with Erin on LinkedIn

Learn more at AIR Media and SoundPath

Episode Chapters

01:13 – About the Rate Guide | Why pay transparency matters

06:04 – Common Underpayment Traps | Why freelancers earn less than the standard

09:29 – AIR’s Role | Advocacy, opportunities, and resources

12:33 – The Water Cooler Effect | Building safe spaces for freelancers

16:48 – Erin’s Career Journey | From freelancer to AIR leadership

23:36 – Thinking Like a Business | Setting a bottom line

25:43 – Underused Resources | How AIR supports independents

26:59 – Mentorship Marketplace | Getting guidance when you need it

31:02 – What’s Next | Audience engagement and live events

Some Additional PodBiz Buzz...“Freelancers need to think like a business.”“All interns should get paid—no exceptions.”“Community is often the number one thing people renew their membership for.”“Pay transparency benefits everyone on all sides of the industry.”“Mentorship can accelerate your career by years.”

PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?

Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.

Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

How do political and narrative podcasts carve out sustainable monetization strategies in today’s ad-driven industry?

In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky speaks with Giancarlo Bizzarro, VP of Sales at Crooked Media, about how the company approaches podcast monetization in a shifting media landscape. From balancing content with ad sales to cultivating long-term client partnerships, Giancarlo breaks down the strategies that keep Crooked at the forefront of political and cultural podcasting.

As he puts it:

“Act as if you’re the client’s ad agency.”

Here are some insightful moments within the episode:

• Crooked Media’s current revenue mix: direct sales, programmatic, branded content, subscriptions, and video
• How limited series and partnerships (World Corrupt with Men in Blazers) help “de-risk” new show launches
• Why Giancarlo says “a baked-in ad is king” and how it compares with programmatic in today’s market
• Real CPM benchmarks in podcasting today | From high teens to mid-twenties, and when higher pricing makes sense
• Giancarlo’s career journey from the Obama campaign to Oxford Road, WME, Cadence13, and now Crooked Media
• A sales philosophy built on acting as if you’re the client’s ad agency, not just a vendor
• What’s next for Crooked Media: Crooked Con, video expansion, global growth, and delivering the best audience and advertiser experience

Giancarlo Bizzarro is the Vice President of Sales at Crooked Media, where he leads advertising and sponsorship strategy across the company’s podcast network. With extensive experience in media sales, Giancarlo has shaped how Crooked positions its shows in a crowded marketplace, balancing the demands of advertisers with the unique voice of politically and culturally influential podcasts.

Connect with Giancarlo on LinkedIn.

Episode Chapters

01:22 – Today’s Revenue Mix | Direct, programmatic, subscriptions, branded content, custom segments, and video

02:44 – Limited Series & De-Risking | How Crooked launches shows and protects investment with feed strategy

07:09 – Case Study: World Corrupt | Men in Blazers × Pod Save the World collaboration and why it worked

10:14 – Baked-In vs. Programmatic | Why baked-in is still the “king” of ad units for brands and audiences

14:10 – CPMs & Pricing | Where the market lands today and when higher CPMs make sense

18:49 – GC's Career Path to Crooked | From the Obama campaign to Oxford Road, Cadence13, WME, and Crooked

23:44 – Sales Philosophy | Acting as the client’s agency and building long-term partnerships

27:57 – What’s Next for Crooked | CrookedCon

Additional PodBiz Buzz“My ethos has always been in selling, act as if you're the client's ad agency.”“The money is generally dispersed mainly amongst direct advertisers, programmatic advertisers, subscription.”“You're seeing money in branded content. You're seeing money in custom segments, and now you're seeing some money in video as well.”“If they're smart, pick up on, and if they're small, they can still get a piece of the pie.”“Subscriptions, branded content, and ads in general.. there's a lot of opportunity for people who have small businesses or maybe are coaches to use a podcast as a funnel.”

PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?

Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.

Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com

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