PodBiz | Where's The Money In Podcasting?

How do podcast publishers actually know what inventory they can sell?

According to Sean Howard, most of the industry historically hasn’t. In this episode of PodBiz, Sean Howard, founder and CEO of Flightpath and co-founder of Fable and Folly, breaks down one of the biggest operational problems in podcast advertising: forecasting ad delivery in a medium built around unpredictable audience behavior.

Before building Flightpath, Sean worked across fiction podcasting, branded content, and podcast audience growth. Through years of buying and selling podcast advertising, he realized that publishers, networks, and sales teams often didn’t actually know what they could reliably deliver to advertisers, creating cascading problems around campaign fulfillment, inventory management, and monetization.

That insight became the foundation for Flightpath, a platform focused on predictive inventory forecasting, campaign management, and helping publishers better understand how audiences consume content across podcasting and video.

The conversation also explores how creator behavior is changing as podcasting evolves into a multi-platform ecosystem spanning RSS, YouTube, Spotify video, newsletters, memberships, and creator-owned media businesses. Sean shares why podcast audiences behave differently than social audiences, how evergreen podcast catalogs create long-tail monetization opportunities, why YouTube discoverability is often misunderstood, and what the next generation of creator media companies may look like.

In this episode we cover:

• Why podcast ad inventory forecasting has historically been unreliable
• How predictive modeling changes podcast monetization
• The operational challenges behind podcast advertising sales
• Why podcasting’s evergreen back catalog is so valuable
• How audience behavior differs between podcasts and YouTube
• Why creators are rebuilding audiences across multiple platforms
• The rise of simulcast monetization strategies
• Why podcast listeners behave differently than social media audiences
• The evolution of fiction podcasting and independent creator networks
• Why creator-owned media companies are becoming increasingly powerful

Episode Chapters

(00:00) Why podcast ad forecasting is still broken

(01:29) The origin story behind Flightpath

(03:29) Predicting audience behavior across platforms

(06:08) Why podcast publishers oversell inventory

(08:05) Audience targeting vs download metrics

(11:32) What actually drives discoverability on YouTube

(15:42) Why podcast back catalogs are so valuable

(20:49) The operational side of podcast ad sales

(26:16) Building Fable and Folly in the early days of podcasting

(31:40) Why podcasting still feels scrappy

(40:40) What Sean would do differently building a media company today

(43:38) Why creator-owned media businesses are the future

About Sean Howard

Sean Howard is the founder and CEO of Flightpath, a predictive inventory and campaign management platform for podcast publishers and media companies. He is also the co-founder of Fable and Folly, one of the pioneering fiction podcast networks, and previously worked with Pacific Content during podcasting’s early branded content expansion.

Connect with Sean:

https://www.flightpath.fm/

https://www.fableandfolly.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/seanhoward/

Some Additional PodBiz Buzz“Nobody had a clue what they could actually promise. They were just giving us a number.”“Podcasting has this deeper trust relationship. We’re actively engaged in what we want to listen to.”“The creators are starting to set the terms. They’re owning the audience, literally and figuratively.”

PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?

Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.

Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

How do you measure the value of a podcast when the industry still can’t fully agree on what counts as a listener?

Tom Webster has spent decades helping the audio industry answer exactly that question. From traditional radio research to podcast analytics, audience behavior, and platform evolution, his work has shaped how podcasting understands itself and where it’s heading next.

In this episode of PodBiz, Tom joins us to discuss the changing realities of podcast measurement, the rise of YouTube as a discovery engine, and why podcasting’s intimacy continues to outperform almost every other form of media. We also get into why creators misunderstand growth, how niche podcasts quietly become massive businesses, and what happens when an industry matures faster than its measurement systems.

Tom also breaks down why podcasting is increasingly being shaped by algorithmic platforms, fragmented analytics, shifting consumer behavior, and the broader attention economy and why creators need to stop obsessing over vanity metrics and focus on building something audiences genuinely return to.

In this episode, we cover:

• Why downloads no longer tell the full story
• The rise of YouTube as podcasting’s top discovery platform
• Why podcast audiences behave differently than social audiences
• How niche podcasts quietly generate enormous business value
• The challenge of fragmented podcast analytics
• Why audience retention matters more than vanity metrics
• How traditional radio adapted to digital audio
• Why creators need to stop competing with everyone else
• What podcasters should actually be measuring

About Tom Webster:

Tom Webster is Partner at Sounds Profitable and one of the most respected researchers in podcasting and digital audio. Prior to joining Sounds Profitable, he spent more than 18 years at Edison Research, helping lead some of the industry’s most influential studies on podcast consumption, audience behavior, and media trends.

Episode Moments:

(00:00) Introduction to PodBiz

(01:06) Where the money is in podcasting

(06:15) Why podcasting creates deeper intimacy

(10:23) The reality of podcast audience growth

(11:15) Why niche podcasts can become valuable businesses

(16:14) The measurement questions keeping podcasting up at night

(20:08) Spotify, YouTube, and platform competition

(21:25) Why podcast analytics remain fragmented

(26:07) Tom Webster’s path into podcasting

(28:53) How radio is adapting to podcasting

(34:03) Competing against yourself as a creator

(45:13) The moment YouTube changed podcast discovery

(50:14) What podcast creators should actually measure

(52:01) Leaving Edison Research for Sounds Profitable

(01:00:29) What excites Tom about podcasting’s future

Some Additional PodBiz Buzz:“The retention is so much stronger with podcasting that once somebody does subscribe to your show, they really are part of a community that you've built.”“You’re only competing against yourself. It’s how can you be better tomorrow and better the day after that, and a little bit better and so good that they can’t ignore you.”“When you create that value for your show, it will be found. Whether it’s from a network, whether it’s an acquisition, whether it’s from your own subscriber base.”

PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?

Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.

Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

How do you build a podcast business when your audience is highly specialized, deeply regulated, and incredibly difficult to reach?

Dan Kendall has spent nearly a decade proving that small, focused podcast audiences can create outsized business value. As the founder of Health Podcast Library and creator of Digital Health Today, Dan built one of the earliest podcast ecosystems dedicated to healthcare innovation, medical technology, and evidence-based content.

In this episode of PodBiz, Dan breaks down how healthcare podcasting evolved from a niche experiment into a trusted infrastructure layer for audience education, brand positioning, and professional discovery.

He also shares why many companies still misunderstand podcasting, how he sold his first sponsorships before the industry had clear pricing models, and why trust, not scale alone, is often the most valuable currency in podcasting.

“I don't think having a podcast is a binary decision anymore. It's not do I don't I? It's about what kind of podcast do I create.”

In This Episode, We Cover:

• Why niche podcast audiences can outperform larger shows commercially
• How Dan monetized Digital Health Today before podcast ad standards existed
• The role of trust in healthcare podcasting and branded content
• Why healthcare companies are using podcasts as educational infrastructure
• The difference between owned, earned, and paid media in podcast growth
• Why most organizations think about podcasting incorrectly
• How Health Podcast Library vets credible health content
• What podcasting can learn from the Airbnb marketplace model
• The business opportunity behind highly targeted professional audiences
• Why podcasting is no longer a “should we?” decision for brands

Episode Moments:

• (00:00) Why podcasting is no longer a binary decision
• (01:37) Where the money is in podcasting
• (04:13) Launching Digital Health Today
• (06:47) Dan’s first sponsorship strategy
• (14:14) Why niche audiences became commercially valuable
• (15:03) Selling annual podcast sponsorships
• (17:59) Podcasts as sales and education infrastructure
• (21:49) Building “WebMD for your ears”
• (23:15) The vision behind Health Podcast Library
• (27:18) Owned, earned, and paid media strategies
• (31:06) Why healthcare professionals needed podcast discovery tools
• (33:01) Launching the Health Podcast Awards
• (35:08) Why creators overcomplicate getting started
• (37:01) Using podcasts to educate customers before sales conversations
• (44:04) The Starbucks moment that validated podcast sponsorship
• (47:04) The biggest misconception about Health Podcast Library
• (48:24) Dan’s advice for podcasters entering niche industries
• (50:08) Why Dan is excited about podcast industry events and the Health Podcast Summit

About Dan Kendall

Dan Kendall is the founder of Health Podcast Library and the creator of Digital Health Today. With more than 30 years of experience across healthcare, medical technology, and innovation, Dan has become a leading advocate for evidence-based podcasting within the healthcare industry. Through Health Podcast Library, Health Podcast Summit, and related initiatives, he works to elevate credible health content and help creators, organizations, and professionals use podcasting more effectively for education, trust-building, and audience engagement.

Connect with Dan Kendall

Health Podcast Library

Website: healthpodcastlibrary.com

YouTube: youtube.com/@healthpodcastlibrary

Instagram: instagram.com/healthpodcastlibrary

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/company/health-podcast-library

Some Additional PodBiz Buzz“Hope is a terrible strategy.”“What are the key things that you wish every potential client, user, consumer, patient, professional, whoever they are, what are the key things that you wish all of them knew before you flew out to see them?”“When they choose to trade their time and their attention for your content, what are you doing to help them be better in their life?”“Everybody's telling me they heard me on your podcast. I think this is your audience in this room.”

PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?

Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.

Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

If you don’t own your audience, are you actually building a business?

This week on PodBiz, Michelle Jackson, founder of Creators Getting Paid, breaks down why most creators struggle to monetize and what’s actually required to turn a podcast into something sustainable. Her work sits at the intersection of independent creators, community building, and revenue transparency, giving her a clear view into what’s working and where people get stuck.

The throughline is simple: monetization isn’t about doing more content. It’s about building something around the content that converts.

“There’s no one way to monetize a podcast… each podcast is completely different.”

That flexibility is part of the opportunity, but also the problem. Without a defined structure, most creators default to focusing only on the show itself.

“If you get nothing out of this whole conversation… you need to be collecting your audience.”

Because the gap isn’t effort or even consistency. It’s ownership. This conversation looks at what actually needs to be in place beyond the podcast feed, and why building an audience you control is the difference between a project and a business.

In this episode:

• Why there’s no single path to monetizing a podcast
• Why most podcasters struggle to believe they can make money
• The difference between building a show and building a business
• Audience ownership vs. platform dependency
• Email lists, newsletters, and what actually matters
• Why content alone doesn’t convert
• When to pause, pivot, or rebuild a podcast
• Crowdfunding and alternative funding models
• The tradeoffs of running multiple creative projects

Episode Moments

(01:13) Where the money in podcasting actually depends

(02:58) Deciding to monetize your work

(05:18) Why owning your audience is critical

(10:29) Email lists vs. newsletters

(14:17) Turning content into community

(19:04) Why most content doesn’t convert

(21:27) Taking a break to build something better

(23:29) Crowdfunding as a funding model

(27:08) Why podcasters get stuck at the show level

(37:18) The cost of splitting focus

(41:12) The opportunity for more creative podcasting

About Michelle

Michelle Jackson is the founder of Creators Getting Paid, a platform focused on transparency around how creators earn revenue. She works across independent creators and organizations, helping them build sustainable income through audience ownership, community development, and strategic brand ecosystems. She is also a long-time podcaster with over a decade of experience across personal finance and creator economy content.

Some Additional PodBiz Buzz“I think, first of all, just deciding that you want to monetize your show… like unapologetic, I will make money.”“You need leads. You need people. You need a community to sell that to.”“Most people’s content is really boring… they’re just not taking risks.”“If you only focus on one project, it will grow faster.” 

PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?

Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.

Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

If podcasting is growing, why is monetization still uneven and who actually captures the value?

This week on PodBiz, Brendan Monaghan, CEO of Libsyn and former co-founder of Megaphone, breaks down podcasting from the platform layer: hosting, monetization, and the infrastructure shaping the industry behind the scenes. With experience spanning Spotify, Megaphone, and The Washington Post, Brendan brings a systems-level view of how podcasting has evolved from distribution to a more complex, platform-driven ecosystem. The throughline is clear: podcasting is still being built, and that has implications for how creators, platforms, and businesses should think about strategy.

“Broadband didn't exist. My job now didn't exist then.”

That same reality applies today. The industry isn’t fully defined and neither are the roles within it.

“The things that you will end up doing don't exist right now.”

Which makes podcasting less about optimizing a known playbook and more about understanding where infrastructure is heading. This conversation focuses on the mechanics: how platforms scale, where monetization actually works, and why distribution alone is no longer enough.

In this episode:

• Why podcast hosting is evolving into a broader infrastructure layer
• Where revenue actually sits across platforms, creators, and advertisers
• The difference between building audience and building a business
• How Megaphone scaled into a high-growth ad platform and what that signals
• Why SaaS is becoming central to podcast monetization
• What platform expansion into global markets changes for creators
• Why long-term opportunity in podcasting is tied to systems, not just content

Episode Moments

(00:00) Early media convergence and what didn’t exist yet

(01:30) Platform economics and value capture

(05:00) Hosting vs infrastructure

(10:00) Monetization realities at scale

(15:30) Platform expansion and SaaS strategy

(20:00) Creator misconceptions about revenue

(27:00) The future of podcast careers

(35:00) Lessons from Megaphone and Spotify

(45:00) Global growth and platform positioning

(53:00) What comes next

About Brendan

Brendan Monaghan is CEO of Libsyn and joined its Board of Directors in 2024. He previously co-founded Megaphone, a podcast advertising and publishing platform acquired by Spotify, where he went on to lead its global SaaS business. His background spans platform strategy, media, and business development across companies including The Washington Post and Slate.

Some Additional PodBiz Buzz“I studied television production at university, and when I was at university we were having debates about convergence. You know, would we one day be able to watch television through broadband or through the internet? Broadband didn't exist. My job now didn't exist then.”“There are going to be for anybody that's listening to this, looking at a career in podcasting or content production or, you know, content strategy or whatever, the things that you will end up doing don't exist right now.” 

PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?

Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.

Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

How do you make money from podcasting when listeners are skipping ads?

Sam Sethi has spent his career at the intersection of tech and media, from Microsoft and Netscape to co-founding TechCrunch. Now, as CEO of True Fans and co-host of Podcast Weekly Review, he’s focused on one thing: building direct relationships between creators and audiences.

For Sam, the future of podcasting isn’t built on ads. It’s built on fans.

“The word of the year is parasocial… it’s a one way deep relationship that fans have with creators.”

In this episode, Sam breaks down why subscription models are gaining momentum, why downloads are no longer a reliable metric, and how podcasting is shifting toward direct monetization through community, access, and multi-platform experiences.

In this episode:

• Why subscription models are overtaking ad-based podcast revenue
• The “death of the download” and what should replace it
• How parasocial relationships translate into monetization
• Why listeners are actively avoiding ads
• The shift from platform dependency to creator-owned ecosystems
• How real-time consumption data changes measurement
• Why micropayments haven’t scaled yet but still matter
• The role of curiosity in building long-term success

Episode Moments:

(01:46) Where the money in podcasting is shifting

(03:17) Subscription vs advertising models

(06:13) Why listeners skip ads

(10:02) The role of trust in host-read ads

(17:20) From radio to podcast workflows

(19:27) How top shows identify high-performing clips

(24:37) The “death of the download”

(32:22) Building True Fans and creator ecosystems

(34:12) Real-time listening data explained

(43:39) Micropayments and creator monetization

(45:12) Curiosity as a competitive advantage

(59:29) What’s next for podcasting

About Sam Sethi

Sam Sethi is the CEO of True Fans, a platform focused on direct-to-fan podcast monetization and engagement. He is also co-host of Podcast Weekly Review alongside James Cridland. With a background spanning Microsoft, Netscape, and TechCrunch, Sam brings a product and infrastructure perspective to the future of podcasting, focused on subscriptions, data, and creator-led revenue models.

Find Sam on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samsethi

Some Additional PodBiz Buzz“Complexity is fail. Simplicity is scale.”“You just need a thousand true fans… and you have a business.”“I think people have switched from wanting advertising driven podcasting… to accepting subscription paid, ad free platforms.” 

PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?

Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.

Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

How do you turn a podcast into a system that actually drives revenue?

Chris Stone has spent his career building audiences across legacy media and modern podcast ecosystems. From The Telegraph to the New Statesman, and now through Podcast Strategy Weekly and Podcast Crew, he’s focused on one thing: how content turns into trust, and how trust turns into business.

“The money in podcasting… it depends on where you are in podcasting. If you have massive reach, then obviously advertising and sponsorships… but I think for most people, the money… is using podcasting as a trust building layer within your content ecosystem.”

In this episode, Chris breaks down the layered structure behind high-performing content businesses, why most creators misunderstand monetization, and how to build something people actually want to be part of.

In this episode:

• Why podcasting works best as a trust layer, not a revenue stream on its own
• The “party” framework for building a content ecosystem
• How free content, newsletters, and community connect into monetization
• Why value-first content outperforms aggressive selling
• The role of video in scaling audience growth
• How legacy media strategies translate into podcasting today
• What indie creators get wrong about content and revenue
• Why failing fast is the only real way to grow

Episode Moments:

• (01:22) Where the money in podcasting actually is
• (05:59) The content ecosystem “party” framework
• (11:34) Building Podcast Strategy Weekly and paid conversion
• (16:15) Lessons from legacy media
• (19:03) Branded podcast trends
• (22:53) What works for indie creators
• (29:01) Podcast Crew and industry infrastructure
• (33:42) Video as the biggest growth lever
• (39:58) Audio vs YouTube packaging strategy
• (44:14) How news podcasts build audience
• (48:53) Community as the core driver
• (51:25) Why you have to fail fast

About Chris Stone

Chris Stone is the founder of Podcast Strategy Weekly and Podcast Crew, a professional hiring network for the podcast industry. He is also Executive Producer at the New Statesman, where he leads podcast and video strategy. With a background across The Telegraph and Evening Standard, Chris specializes in audience growth, content strategy, and monetization across media platforms.

Find Chris at Podcast Strategy Weekly: podcaststrategy.substack.com and The Podcast Crew: podcastcrew.co.uk

Some Additional PodBiz Buzz“I have found that providing as much value up top and for free as possible is really beneficial. People need to know that your content is going to be worth the time.”“Once a listener has been through those stages… they’re more likely to then go out and tell other people, hey, there’s this great party, come to this party next time with me.”“And there are going to be… things that you will end up doing that don’t exist right now.”

PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?

Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.

Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What actually makes a podcast worth buying for advertisers?

In this episode, Courtney O'Connor, Director of Podcast Media at Oxford Road, breaks down how brands actually evaluate, buy, and scale podcast campaigns. From her early start at Veritone One to now leading podcast strategy at one of the most established agencies in the space, Courtney has operated inside the shift from indie creator reads to performance-driven media buying at scale.

Courtney brings a media buyer’s perspective from inside one of the most established agencies in the space, where performance, not just reach, determines how dollars are spent and shares the case that alignment between brand, host, and audience is what actually drives results. The conversation also explores how host-read advertising continues to anchor the ecosystem, even as video, attribution, and platform fragmentation reshape how campaigns are executed and measured.

In this episode, we cover:

• Why host-read ads remain the entry point for many brands
• How media buyers actually evaluate podcasts beyond downloads
• Why audience fit matters more than scale in campaign performance
• How small, niche shows can still drive meaningful results
• What brand safety looks like in practice across advertisers
• Why podcast advertising is fundamentally a trust-based ecosystem
• How fragmented data and attribution impact buying decisions
• The shift toward video and multi-platform consumption
• Why “test, learn, scale” is the operating model for campaigns

Episode Chapters

(00:31) Where the money is in podcasting: host-read media

(01:40) Courtney’s path into podcast advertising

(05:21) Evolution of brand and creator relationships

(06:01) Why downloads aren’t a deal breaker

(07:28) Indie creators vs celebrity talent

(10:14) Trust and performance in podcast advertising

(12:15) Metrics, attribution, and data challenges

(16:24) Fragmentation across platforms

(18:08) Brand safety and campaign fit

(20:52) Matching brands with creators

(23:51) Trends in podcast media buying

(25:17) Video and changing consumption

(26:07) Test-and-learn mindset

(27:13) What goes into campaign execution

(28:07) What’s next for podcasting

About the Guest

Courtney O'Connor is Director of Podcast Media at Oxford Road, where she leads host-read podcast advertising strategy for brands investing in the medium. She began her career at Veritone One and has grown alongside the podcast industry as it evolved into a performance-driven channel, working across creator partnerships, attribution, and campaign strategy.

Connect with Courtney

Connect with Courtney on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/coconnortcu/

Some Additional PodBiz Buzz“I’m going to say the money is in endorsed host-run media. I love that is what the industry was built on… connecting brands with creators that have this unbreakable trust with their audience.”“I personally have bought podcasts with 65 downloads… there is a time and a place for it and if it’s the right fit, we’re going to buy it.”“We are working in a trust based ecosystem… our brands are trusting us to make the right decision with their dollars and spend it wisely.”“That is exactly what it is… matchmaking in connecting those brands and creators that make sense.”“We have to be the best stewards of our clients’ money… if it doesn’t work, that campaign is going to stop and the client’s not going to come back.”

PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?

Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.

Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What if most of the money in podcasting isn’t in podcasting at all?

In this episode, we’re joined by Jeremy Enns, founder of Podcast Marketing Academy, to break down where podcast revenue really comes from, and why so many shows miss it.

Jeremy challenges the idea that growth is about tactics. Instead, he makes the case that concept, positioning, and packaging are the real drivers of audience and revenue.

He also introduces a critical shift: podcasts aren’t just content—they’re conversion accelerators within a broader business system.

“There’s way more money that never gets accounted for… businesses that use podcasting to drive business.”

In this episode, we cover:

• Why most podcast revenue is “invisible” and happens outside the industry
• Podcasting as a conversion accelerator (and how it shortens sales cycles)
• The difference between advertising, partnerships, and equity-based deals
• Why concept is the most overlooked lever in podcast growth
• How poor packaging kills great content before it gets a chance
• The role of podcasts inside a larger media and business strategy
• Why most creators misunderstand content strategy entirely
• The shift from tactics to belief-building in marketing
• Long-term thinking, detachment, and sustainable growth in podcasting

Episode Chapters

(00:05) Packaging vs. promotion in podcast growth

(01:08) Where the money in podcasting actually lives

(03:49) Sponsorship vs. products and services

(05:30) Creative monetization: equity and partnerships

(07:16) Podcasting as part of a broader media strategy

(09:13) The myth of art vs. business in podcasting

(14:08) Why marketing feels “smarmy” (and how to fix it)

(17:25) Audience clarity and value proposition

(18:18) What makes a show inherently shareable

(21:24) The slow burn of podcast growth

(26:46) Why concept is everything

(28:00) Content strategy and belief systems

(31:50) Positioning your podcast within your business

(36:09) Detachment, long-term thinking, and creative success

(42:57) Why there are no shortcuts in podcast growth

About the Guest

Jeremy Enns is the founder of Podcast Marketing Academy, where he helps creators and businesses grow podcasts through strategy, positioning, and concept development. With a background in audio engineering and years of experience working with podcasters at every level, Jeremy focuses on the intersection of craft and marketing, helping shows become both compelling and commercially effective.

Connect with Jeremy

Connect with Jeremy on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremy-enns/

Explore his work at Podcast Marketing Academy: https://podcastmarketingacademy.com/scrappy-podcasting-newsletter/

Some Additional PodBiz Buzz“There’s way more money that never gets accounted for… businesses that use podcasting to drive business.”“Normally my time to conversion was 12 to 18 months… after the podcast, a couple weeks later they’re ready to talk.”“If you don’t get the concept right, everything is going to be harder downstream.”“People do judge shows by their cover, by their title, by that one sentence blurb.”“The game is staying in the game while you build your skills.”“If you package great work, it will grow itself.”

PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?

Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.

Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What does it actually take to build a media network inside a company like HubSpot?

As Head of Media Partnerships at HubSpot Media Network, Carly Baker joined shortly after the acquisition of The Hustle and helped grow what started as a small collection of shows into a multi-platform media ecosystem spanning podcasts, YouTube, and newsletters.

In this episode of PodBiz, Carly breaks down how HubSpot approaches creator partnerships, what makes a show valuable today, and how podcasting fits into a broader media strategy.

At the center of that shift is a more expansive view of monetization.

“People are scrambling to try to figure out how to monetize directly through their audience… and to have more control sort of financially.”

That doesn’t replace advertising, but it does change how creators and networks think about building sustainable businesses.

It also changes how success is evaluated.

“Size does not matter… we have shows and newsletters and YouTube channels that we work with of all shapes and sizes.”

This conversation looks at how media companies are thinking about audience, distribution, and long-term value across platforms.

In this episode, we cover:

• How HubSpot built a podcast, YouTube, and newsletter network from one acquisition

• Why monetization is expanding beyond a single revenue stream

• Why downloads are becoming a misleading metric for audience value

• How HubSpot evaluates shows beyond audience size

• The difference between audio and video as separate products

• How YouTube search vs browse shapes growth strategy

• Why newsletters are becoming critical for audience ownership

• The role of trust, brand safety, and alignment in creator partnerships

About Carly Baker

Carly Baker is Head of Media Partnerships at HubSpot Media Network, where she leads partnership and growth strategy across podcasts, newsletters, and video. She has spent the past four years building sustainable audience growth for shows like My First Million and Goal Digger, with a focus on distribution-first strategy and long-term impact.

Connect with Carly Baker

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carlycbaker/

Episode Chapters

(01:11) Introduction to Carly Baker and HubSpot Media Network

(01:53) Where the money is in podcasting today

(02:45) The shift toward direct audience monetization

(04:08) Why audience trust is the foundation of revenue

(05:37) The evolution of podcast advertising

(08:06) Building HubSpot’s media network after The Hustle acquisition

(12:16) What actually makes a podcast successful today

(14:23) The confusion around modern podcast metrics

(17:26) Why creator relationships drive long-term success

(21:51) Video strategy and YouTube growth

(23:55) Search vs browse content on YouTube

(28:42) Audio vs video as fundamentally different products

(31:57) Monetization differences across platforms

(36:09) Why relationships matter more than metrics

(39:49) The role of newsletters in owning your audience

(41:37) Substack, community, and direct audience connection

(46:48) Long-term strategy vs chasing trends

(47:59) What’s next: IRL events and private communities

Some Additional PodBiz Buzz“Being able to give the audience a chance to directly support those creators that they love and trust is something that I think we’re seeing a lot more and will continue to see.”“We’re not in the business of being transactional with creators… we really want to work one-on-one with the person to be able to provide them that individualized growth support.”“If your audience is not on YouTube, that’s fine… you don’t have to be everywhere. You just need to double down where they are.”

PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?

Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.

Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.