Everybody loves a hero. But villains can be much more interesting. 

Meredith Talusan is the Executive Editor at Them. She wrote an essay about trans villains in film for BuzzFeed.

Dan Kois and Isaac Butler are co-authors of The World Only Spins Forward, an oral history of Angels in America. Andrea Bernstein is the co-host of Trump, Inc., a podcast about the Trump family business from WNYC Studios and Pro Publica. Stephen Spinella plays Roy Cohn in the Berkeley Rep production of Angels in America.

Episode scoring by Jeremy Bloom with additional music by Lee Rosevere ("I Was Waiting for Him" and "Featherlight"). Theme by Alexander Overington.